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The following interview was conducted with Ken Geary as part of Wollongong City Council Library's Illawarra Stories oral history project. It took place The following interview was conducted with Ken Geary as part of Wollongong City Council Library's Illawarra Stories oral history project. It took place
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in the Wattle Room, in the Wattle Room,
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Wollongong Library, now, on the 15th of February 2021. Wollongong Library, now, on the 15th of February 2021.
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The interviewer is Claire Gerson. The interviewer is Claire Gerson.
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Okay. Okay.
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So, I understand you moved to Port Kembla when you were 6. When was that? [Ken] No, we moved to Wollongong when I was 6. [Claire] Right. [Ken] From Grafton. [Claire] Right. So, I understand you moved to Port Kembla when you were 6. When was that? [Ken] No, we moved to Wollongong when I was 6. [Claire] Right. [Ken] From Grafton. [Claire] Right.
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And do you have any immediate memories from that time? [Ken] Well, first of all, when we moved And do you have any immediate memories from that time? [Ken] Well, first of all, when we moved
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in 1939 we were at North Beach, we were over the road from North Beach. in 1939 we were at North Beach, we were over the road from North Beach.
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And up on the corner was a smallgoods shop owned by two brothers. Over the road was owned by a real estate called Rutty's, next door was the Dorahy butcher shop. And up on the corner was a smallgoods shop owned by two brothers. Over the road was owned by a real estate called Rutty's, next door was the Dorahy butcher shop.
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And then And then
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weeks later we went to 50 Keira Street weeks later we went to 50 Keira Street
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which we lived for amount of years. And on the corner, Greentrees lived on the corner and next door to us was the Congregational Church. It was a two-storey church. which we lived for amount of years. And on the corner, Greentrees lived on the corner and next door to us was the Congregational Church. It was a two-storey church.
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Um, Um,
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and then next door to them was Kell and next door to them was Cooke. and then next door to them was Kell and next door to them was Cooke.
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Um, next door to them was Murphy, Gatts, Um, next door to them was Murphy, Gatts,
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and the corner shop was owned by Ellem and the corner shop was owned by Ellem
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Um, over on the corner was Henwood and further up in the terrace places was 'Weetbix' Ison. [Claire] You mentioned terraces, so was it largely, um, detached houses or..? [Ken] Yeah, terraces. And old Weetbix, at 4 o'clock of an afternoon his wife used to Um, over on the corner was Henwood and further up in the terrace places was 'Weetbix' Ison. [Claire] You mentioned terraces, so was it largely, um, detached houses or..? [Ken] Yeah, terraces. And old Weetbix, at 4 o'clock of an afternoon his wife used to
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meet him downtown and she'd be all doo-dahed up and all that. But further up was Dyball, the dentist and Stone the dentist meet him downtown and she'd be all doo-dahed up and all that. But further up was Dyball, the dentist and Stone the dentist
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and further on was Wiseman where the quarry was, was Wiseman the doctor. [Claire] So you're describing a really busy and further on was Wiseman where the quarry was, was Wiseman the doctor. [Claire] So you're describing a really busy
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dense little community when you compare it with how that area is now. [Ken] I lived there since 1939. dense little community when you compare it with how that area is now. [Ken] I lived there since 1939.
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Um, I couldn't leave school quick enough. [Claire] Why was that? [Ken] I was an awful student. Um, I couldn't leave school quick enough. [Claire] Why was that? [Ken] I was an awful student.
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And being in the B class old ?Foster was the teacher in 3rd class and he carried a, a suitcase I guess, used to hold two bottles of beer, but that was his business. And being in the B class old ?Foster was the teacher in 3rd class and he carried a, a suitcase I guess, used to hold two bottles of beer, but that was his business.
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And then I, we went to 5th class, which was the principal of the school, but he was teaching 5th class and 6th class. And then I, we went to 5th class, which was the principal of the school, but he was teaching 5th class and 6th class.
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So then the next year you got, when you went into 6th class, you got the same teacher again, teaching you, teaching you 5 and 6. [Claire] So you were bored, it sounds like as much as anything. [Ken] Oh, it was shocking, education stunk! So then the next year you got, when you went into 6th class, you got the same teacher again, teaching you, teaching you 5 and 6. [Claire] So you were bored, it sounds like as much as anything. [Ken] Oh, it was shocking, education stunk!
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It stunk. It stunk.
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And that was, you know, when I went to school. The milk they used to put outside in the sun. And that was, you know, when I went to school. The milk they used to put outside in the sun.
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There was no refrigeration. The milk was in a - bottles, it was warm. There was no refrigeration. The milk was in a - bottles, it was warm.
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And that was the schooldays. So then they sent me to the, the Education Department had a, um, And that was the schooldays. So then they sent me to the, the Education Department had a, um,
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qualifications what your first job should be. [Claire] Like careers advice sort of thing? [Ken] Yeah. So they sent me there and they did the test and all that and they said, "Oh yeah, you'll be a sewing machine mech-, mechanic. You go to the Silknit sewing factory over in Glastonbury Avenue qualifications what your first job should be. [Claire] Like careers advice sort of thing? [Ken] Yeah. So they sent me there and they did the test and all that and they said, "Oh yeah, you'll be a sewing machine mech-, mechanic. You go to the Silknit sewing factory over in Glastonbury Avenue
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near the railway." near the railway."
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So I had to fix the machines and all that when they broke down. So I had to fix the machines and all that when they broke down.
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So you say you had to fix the machines, did you have an apprenticeship as a mechanic or you just picked it up? So you say you had to fix the machines, did you have an apprenticeship as a mechanic or you just picked it up?
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Did you, had you already liked fixing things, was that one of..? [Ken] Well the Education Department, when they put me through the test, I must have shown that I liked tools Did you, had you already liked fixing things, was that one of..? [Ken] Well the Education Department, when they put me through the test, I must have shown that I liked tools
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and they and they
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recommended that I fix sewing machines or whatever. recommended that I fix sewing machines or whatever.
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And the manager was George Young And the manager was George Young
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and it was the Silknit sewing factory. So then after a while the, the cutter left so the manager said to me would I like to be the cutter. and it was the Silknit sewing factory. So then after a while the, the cutter left so the manager said to me would I like to be the cutter.
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So I had about four ladies under me ?? So I had about four ladies under me ??
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And they used to lay all the rolls of material on these tables, And they used to lay all the rolls of material on these tables,
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put the brown paper pattern on top and I used to cut all the petticoats and pants and put the brown paper pattern on top and I used to cut all the petticoats and pants and
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whatever. So, ah, yeah. So then my brother reckoned that he had a better job in Sydney in Waterloo whatever. So, ah, yeah. So then my brother reckoned that he had a better job in Sydney in Waterloo
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at Rover fridge. Rover fridge was the, the round refrigerators with revolving shelves. at Rover fridge. Rover fridge was the, the round refrigerators with revolving shelves.
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[Claire] But then you presumably had to take the train to Sydney. [Ken] So I had to live with my brother at Dover Heights. [Claire] Ah. [Ken] And I had to travel every morning [Claire] But then you presumably had to take the train to Sydney. [Ken] So I had to live with my brother at Dover Heights. [Claire] Ah. [Ken] And I had to travel every morning
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from Dover heights from Dover heights
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to Central to the brewery in Elizabeth Street to Central to the brewery in Elizabeth Street
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and then to Waterloo. and then to Waterloo.
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[Claire] And did you enjoy living in Sydney as a contrast? [Ken] Well, my brother he spoke with a forked tongue. It wasn't better money. [Claire] And did you enjoy living in Sydney as a contrast? [Ken] Well, my brother he spoke with a forked tongue. It wasn't better money.
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Ah, we, another guy and myself used to make the bodies Ah, we, another guy and myself used to make the bodies
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for the refrigerators. Um, for the refrigerators. Um,
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so then I come down to Wollongong. so then I come down to Wollongong.
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Um, I worked at Frederick Ash. [Claire] When you worked at the fridge factory, what year was that, 'cause presumably not that many people could afford a fridge? [Ken] It was in the '40s, before the Hallstrom refrigerator. We, years ago, we had ice box. [Claire] Yes, that's what I was thinking. [Ken] And when I used to come home from school down in Flinders Street Um, I worked at Frederick Ash. [Claire] When you worked at the fridge factory, what year was that, 'cause presumably not that many people could afford a fridge? [Ken] It was in the '40s, before the Hallstrom refrigerator. We, years ago, we had ice box. [Claire] Yes, that's what I was thinking. [Ken] And when I used to come home from school down in Flinders Street
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there used to be an ice works, where Doorland is there used to be an ice works. And I used to have to get there used to be an ice works, where Doorland is there used to be an ice works. And I used to have to get
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 half a block of ice,  half a block of ice,
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cart it in my billy cart. [Claire] How heavy was it? [Ken] It was heavy enough not to carry. And cart it in my billy cart. [Claire] How heavy was it? [Ken] It was heavy enough not to carry. And
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it was cold enough not to carry. it was cold enough not to carry.
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And we used to put that, we used to keep things cool in the ice chest, in the, ah, cold chest. [Claire] Yeah. And we used to put that, we used to keep things cool in the ice chest, in the, ah, cold chest. [Claire] Yeah.
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[Ken] There was three timber yards in Wollongong. [Ken] There was three timber yards in Wollongong.
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There was a timber yard, ah, There was a timber yard, ah,
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up in Market Street there was timber yard where Woolworths are today. up in Market Street there was timber yard where Woolworths are today.
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And there was a timber yard down in, um, And there was a timber yard down in, um,
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Victoria Street. [Claire] Was this to supply the building trade, was there a lot of building going on. [Ken] Well, everybody used a copper, Victoria Street. [Claire] Was this to supply the building trade, was there a lot of building going on. [Ken] Well, everybody used a copper,
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we didn't have washing machines. [Claire] Oh, so it was wood for the wood fire? [Ken] It was to stoke the coppers and the coppers were a big copper container and a fire underneath and we used to boil everything. we didn't have washing machines. [Claire] Oh, so it was wood for the wood fire? [Ken] It was to stoke the coppers and the coppers were a big copper container and a fire underneath and we used to boil everything.
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We had copper sticks, we had sticks that we used to lift the sheets out of the boiling water and all that. We had copper sticks, we had sticks that we used to lift the sheets out of the boiling water and all that.
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Ah, yep. Ah, yep.
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That was the, That was the,
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then. So between, in Keira Street where we, we eventually lived then. So between, in Keira Street where we, we eventually lived
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in 50 Keira Street,, in 50 Keira Street,,
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after school I used to have to get the haversack after school I used to have to get the haversack
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and I used to go up into Keira Street, and I used to go up into Keira Street,
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there was a butcher shop on the corner. Next door was a private library. Next door was Dions, Dions buses used to have an office there. [Claire] I know where you mean. [Ken] And next door was a lady that had a private library. there was a butcher shop on the corner. Next door was a private library. Next door was Dions, Dions buses used to have an office there. [Claire] I know where you mean. [Ken] And next door was a lady that had a private library.
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And next door was Joe Mammone, the barber. And next door was Joe Mammone, the barber.
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He was baldy old Mone. He used to cut, I reckon cut hair in the bloody concentration camp. But anyway, he was a rough barber. [Claire] What was his name again? [Ken] Joe Mammone. He was baldy old Mone. He used to cut, I reckon cut hair in the bloody concentration camp. But anyway, he was a rough barber. [Claire] What was his name again? [Ken] Joe Mammone.
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And there was Brooks. And there was Brooks.
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Brooks had a smallgoods shop, used to buy a soda. They had a soda fountain. Brooks had a smallgoods shop, used to buy a soda. They had a soda fountain.
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And used to buy a soda with flavouring and ice cream and all that in it. And used to buy a soda with flavouring and ice cream and all that in it.
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Next door was a smallgoods shop. Next door was a smallgoods shop.
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They found a dead bloke up in the ceiling years later. They found a dead bloke up in the ceiling years later.
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And... [Claire] Did they suspect foul play, or had he just died? [Ken] It was foul play. But anyway, I, I'm only surmising that, it's hearsay. And on the, there was next door to that was a butcher shop. And... [Claire] Did they suspect foul play, or had he just died? [Ken] It was foul play. But anyway, I, I'm only surmising that, it's hearsay. And on the, there was next door to that was a butcher shop.
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And on the corner was Henderson's bike shop. And on the corner was Henderson's bike shop.
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And over on the other corner was the Sallys. And over on the other corner was the Sallys.
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And the Sally's sold out later, And the Sally's sold out later,
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I think to the IMB. I think to the IMB.
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Um, Um,
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and next to them was Warburton Franki's electrical store. and next to them was Warburton Franki's electrical store.
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And next there was a vacant paddock and there was Hazeltons was a fruit shop. And next there was a vacant paddock and there was Hazeltons was a fruit shop.
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And on the corner was the Illawarra pub. And on the corner was the Illawarra pub.
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Old 'Blue Beard' used to sit behind the, the till. She never trusted the bar attendants with the money. Old 'Blue Beard' used to sit behind the, the till. She never trusted the bar attendants with the money.
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So and over on the other corner was Doctor Lee was a... [Claire] So what the landlord would sit through all their shifts and make sure that they put the money in the till? [Ken] They give it to her. [Claire] They give it to her? [Ken] They give it to her and she... [Claire] No till. [Ken] I mean whatever a beer cost they would come to her and they'd say, "Here's a pound." The drinks cost 10 bob (10/-) and she'd give 10 bob change and they'd give the change. [Claire] And was that common practice in pubs generally or was it just..? [Ken] No, no. So and over on the other corner was Doctor Lee was a... [Claire] So what the landlord would sit through all their shifts and make sure that they put the money in the till? [Ken] They give it to her. [Claire] They give it to her? [Ken] They give it to her and she... [Claire] No till. [Ken] I mean whatever a beer cost they would come to her and they'd say, "Here's a pound." The drinks cost 10 bob (10/-) and she'd give 10 bob change and they'd give the change. [Claire] And was that common practice in pubs generally or was it just..? [Ken] No, no.
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[Claire] She didn't trust anyone. [Ken] She didn't trust anyone. [Claire] She didn't trust anyone. [Ken] She didn't trust anyone.
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Then over on the corner was Doctor Lee, was a Medical Centre. Then over on the corner was Doctor Lee, was a Medical Centre.
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And I used to sweep the footpath and sweep for 2 bob (2/-) a week. And I used to sweep the footpath and sweep for 2 bob (2/-) a week.
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And next door to And next door to
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was a  monumental workers yard. was a  monumental workers yard.
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And next door to them was Kent's, they sold carpet and all that, floor coverings. And next door to them was Kent's, they sold carpet and all that, floor coverings.
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Next door was Palings, the musical store. Next door was Palings, the musical store.
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And next door to that was Doctor Lee's house and he used to walk from Keira Street up all these stairs And next door to that was Doctor Lee's house and he used to walk from Keira Street up all these stairs
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to his house. to his house.
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And alongside that was the Flinders Inn Car Park And alongside that was the Flinders Inn Car Park
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and they used to keep all their bottled beer and all that in the shed. And they had a clay pitch and they used to keep all their bottled beer and all that in the shed. And they had a clay pitch
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so we used to play quoits so we used to play quoits
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if you were that way  [Claire] Was the Regent Cinema built then? [Ken] No. [Claire] That wasn't built yet. [Ken] No, no, no, that was way before. if you were that way  [Claire] Was the Regent Cinema built then? [Ken] No. [Claire] That wasn't built yet. [Ken] No, no, no, that was way before.
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So you go around the corner, So you go around the corner,
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Harrigan's were on the corner, they sold petrol in the main street. They had bowsers and all that. Harrigan's were on the corner, they sold petrol in the main street. They had bowsers and all that.
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And in Crown Lane they had a workshop that they used to do ?Comet? trucks and Hillman Cars and all that. And in Crown Lane they had a workshop that they used to do ?Comet? trucks and Hillman Cars and all that.
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Ah, further up was a chap who used to have a, I think it was a Peugot dealership. Ah, further up was a chap who used to have a, I think it was a Peugot dealership.
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Then was a men's store. Then was a men's store.
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Then was Phil Jacobs and Phil Jacobs was, everything was nine and eleven halfpenny (9/11-½ ). [Claire] So like a $2.00 store is now? [Ken] A tax dodge, a tax dodge. Then was Phil Jacobs and Phil Jacobs was, everything was nine and eleven halfpenny (9/11-½ ). [Claire] So like a $2.00 store is now? [Ken] A tax dodge, a tax dodge.
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Instead of saying $2.00 she'd say Instead of saying $2.00 she'd say
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one a penny. Oh, I meant to bring the, that in to you. one a penny. Oh, I meant to bring the, that in to you.
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Yeah, so one of the men's, yeah there was a men's store. [Claire] And did you know all the shopkeepers? Yeah, so one of the men's, yeah there was a men's store. [Claire] And did you know all the shopkeepers?
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[Ken] I knew them Ganderton. Ganderton was a butcher, that's right up on the corner. I knew him. [Ken] I knew them Ganderton. Ganderton was a butcher, that's right up on the corner. I knew him.
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I knew Dions, I knew Brooks. I knew Dions, I knew Brooks.
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Um, Henderson's bike shop, no I, I didn't know them because Um, Henderson's bike shop, no I, I didn't know them because
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then I didn't have a push bike. I knew Hazeltons. then I didn't have a push bike. I knew Hazeltons.
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The Illawarra pub, I was too young to drink. [Claire] And did you all drink together, socialise or..? [Ken] No. [Claire] No. [Ken] So when the, um, worked in the Keira coal mine, The Illawarra pub, I was too young to drink. [Claire] And did you all drink together, socialise or..? [Ken] No. [Claire] No. [Ken] So when the, um, worked in the Keira coal mine,
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Mt Keira. [Claire] So how old are you now? [Ken] I'm 88. And when we used to come down, Henderson's used to run the bus Mt Keira. [Claire] So how old are you now? [Ken] I'm 88. And when we used to come down, Henderson's used to run the bus
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to the mine. to the mine.
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And we used to bail out as the bus was coming at the corner and fly up into the, into the pub. Um, Boyds was the And we used to bail out as the bus was coming at the corner and fly up into the, into the pub. Um, Boyds was the
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bootmaker and later I used to catch the bus there to go out to the waterfront. My old man was a wharfie and he used to say to me, "Give the mines away and come out on the wharves." And I'd say, "No, no, no." So one day I said to him, "Yeah, okay, okay, put my name down." So he put my name down and I got a job on the waterfront. [Claire] And presumably it was a lot easier to get a job on the waterfront if your Dad.. [Ken] Well I didn't have rock over my head and all that, ah, bootmaker and later I used to catch the bus there to go out to the waterfront. My old man was a wharfie and he used to say to me, "Give the mines away and come out on the wharves." And I'd say, "No, no, no." So one day I said to him, "Yeah, okay, okay, put my name down." So he put my name down and I got a job on the waterfront. [Claire] And presumably it was a lot easier to get a job on the waterfront if your Dad.. [Ken] Well I didn't have rock over my head and all that, ah,
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that could fall down any minute. that could fall down any minute.
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And I was working in the pit. Yeah, so then I went out to the wharves. In 1952 I was married, 14th April at And I was working in the pit. Yeah, so then I went out to the wharves. In 1952 I was married, 14th April at
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2 o'clock. I was married in Saint Francis Church. [Claire] Right. [Ken] I married Patricia Byrnes, B-y-r-n-e-s, that was a Catholic spelling. 2 o'clock. I was married in Saint Francis Church. [Claire] Right. [Ken] I married Patricia Byrnes, B-y-r-n-e-s, that was a Catholic spelling.
15:14

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Ah, Ah,
15:15

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I think her father was a plumber, but anyway. [Claire] And is that when you moved to Port Kembla? I think her father was a plumber, but anyway. [Claire] And is that when you moved to Port Kembla?
15:21

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[Ken] No, I didn't live at Port Kembla. [Claire] You never lived at Port Kembla? [Ken] No. [Claire] You only worked at the wharves. [Ken] My wife lived at Port Kembla. She lived in Suvla Street. [Ken] No, I didn't live at Port Kembla. [Claire] You never lived at Port Kembla? [Ken] No. [Claire] You only worked at the wharves. [Ken] My wife lived at Port Kembla. She lived in Suvla Street.
15:30

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Years ago, Years ago,
15:32

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McNamara's, which are related to them, lived in Suvla Street. Suvla Street is the second last street down the bottom McNamara's, which are related to them, lived in Suvla Street. Suvla Street is the second last street down the bottom
15:44

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near the baths near the baths
15:47

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And, ah, we used to, And, ah, we used to,
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before I knew the wife, before I knew the wife,
15:51

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we used to go across the cricket oval at Port Kembla down there. we used to go across the cricket oval at Port Kembla down there.
15:56

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There's a cement drain that goes underneath the cricket pitch There's a cement drain that goes underneath the cricket pitch
15:60

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and was the devils, was full of devils pitchforks and was the devils, was full of devils pitchforks
16:04

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and they used to stick in your feet and hurt like hell so we used to walk on the cement pipeline to get away from them. But during the War all those houses down to the baths and they used to stick in your feet and hurt like hell so we used to walk on the cement pipeline to get away from them. But during the War all those houses down to the baths
16:19

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was huts built by the army. And now you go over the road you go to Marcus Clarke's or Spotlight, was huts built by the army. And now you go over the road you go to Marcus Clarke's or Spotlight,
16:27

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that was Marcus Clarke's. You go next door was Bushland and an old bloke used to pick his nose and wax his that was Marcus Clarke's. You go next door was Bushland and an old bloke used to pick his nose and wax his
16:35

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moustache, he had a curly moustache, and he used to wear a brown dust coat and you used to go downstairs moustache, he had a curly moustache, and he used to wear a brown dust coat and you used to go downstairs
16:45

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to them. Years later it became Nock & Kirby's and then... to them. Years later it became Nock & Kirby's and then...
16:51

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[Claire] Just back to, um, the wharves for the moment, when you started working at the wharves, were they quite militant back then? [Ken] Yeah. [Claire] Yeah. [Ken] They were. I mean, because I come out of the coal mine [Claire] Just back to, um, the wharves for the moment, when you started working at the wharves, were they quite militant back then? [Ken] Yeah. [Claire] Yeah. [Ken] They were. I mean, because I come out of the coal mine
17:05

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I was  brother. I was  brother.
17:07

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[Claire] Right. [Ken] Socialists, socialist. [Claire] Right. [Ken] Socialists, socialist.
17:09

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And they used to have the meetings over at the Coniston hall. And they used to have the meetings over at the Coniston hall.
17:15

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And they used to call you up on the stage And they used to call you up on the stage
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in fours in fours
17:22

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and if they had anything against you, Bang! they'd give you both barrels. and if they had anything against you, Bang! they'd give you both barrels.
17:27

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So it was invasion of privacy, but then it wasn't. So it was invasion of privacy, but then it wasn't.
17:32

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So when I come up on the stage and they said, "Ken Geary, Mt Keira coal mine." Oh! "Hello Comrade [claps hands] Hello Brother," Christ knows what, you know, I was accepted into the waterfront. That was 1952. [Claire] And was it, did lots of, um, did much disappear between being taken off the ships and going where it was supposed to go. [Ken] Well after, after a few years... [Claire] Slippage I believe they called it. So when I come up on the stage and they said, "Ken Geary, Mt Keira coal mine." Oh! "Hello Comrade [claps hands] Hello Brother," Christ knows what, you know, I was accepted into the waterfront. That was 1952. [Claire] And was it, did lots of, um, did much disappear between being taken off the ships and going where it was supposed to go. [Ken] Well after, after a few years... [Claire] Slippage I believe they called it.
18:02

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After a few years, After a few years,
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my friend was a mad fisherman, so was I, my friend was a mad fisherman, so was I,
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and I was trying to build a house and I was trying to build a house
18:13

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and we was always on strike. and we was always on strike.
18:16

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And he said, "Why don't you become a foreman?" And he said, "Why don't you become a foreman?"
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And I said, "Well, if I'm not on strike and all that, yeah, okay." And I said, "Well, if I'm not on strike and all that, yeah, okay."
18:26

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So I got a job So I got a job
18:29

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as foreman as foreman
18:31

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and I worked for Port Kembla Stevedoring. and I worked for Port Kembla Stevedoring.
18:34

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Then Patricks took us over Then Patricks took us over
18:38

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Ah, later on I went to the ANL. Ah, later on I went to the ANL.
18:41

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I worked No. 1 Products in the steelworks No. 2 Products in the steelworks, the grain terminal, the coal loader, I worked everything in Port Kembla. I worked No. 1 Products in the steelworks No. 2 Products in the steelworks, the grain terminal, the coal loader, I worked everything in Port Kembla.
18:53

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[Claire] Yeah, sounds like you've got all know, all over working knowledge. [Ken] I was there for 42 years. [Claire] Yeah, sounds like you've got all know, all over working knowledge. [Ken] I was there for 42 years.
18:60

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So the ANL was a Ro-Ro. Now I think they, they load wheat there now, but then it was the best job So the ANL was a Ro-Ro. Now I think they, they load wheat there now, but then it was the best job
19:11

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that we ever had. that we ever had.
19:13

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It was It was
19:14

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I think four on and three off. I think four on and three off.
19:17

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We never got paid penalty rates or all that. But, um, So all that but, We never got paid penalty rates or all that. But, um, So all that but,
19:22

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yeah, it was the best job. [Claire] Was it dangerous work? yeah, it was the best job. [Claire] Was it dangerous work?
19:26

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Any sort of work on the waterfront was dangerous Any sort of work on the waterfront was dangerous
19:31

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if you didn't have your wits about you. [Claire] What about the steelworks, was that dangerous work? if you didn't have your wits about you. [Claire] What about the steelworks, was that dangerous work?
19:36

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Well, it was all dangerous, I mean when you got it over your head, Well, it was all dangerous, I mean when you got it over your head,
19:41

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I mean, the ship's gear could break down and whatever and kill you. I mean, I've worked I mean, the ship's gear could break down and whatever and kill you. I mean, I've worked
19:49

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No. 1 Products and they've gotso the cranes, No. 1 Products and they've gotso the cranes,
19:53

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I worked the Ro Ro, which is a roll on roll off. I worked the Ro Ro, which is a roll on roll off.
19:58

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And I worked No. 2. And I worked No. 2.
20:01

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Ah, yeah, I've worked all there. But in Crown Street, Ah, yeah, I've worked all there. But in Crown Street,
20:07

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I mean, I said to you where, where the Spotlight is was Marcus Clarkes and then we went Bushland, Bushlands and all that. Ah, then we went to the Commonwealth Bank, the Commonwealth Bank has I mean, I said to you where, where the Spotlight is was Marcus Clarkes and then we went Bushland, Bushlands and all that. Ah, then we went to the Commonwealth Bank, the Commonwealth Bank has
20:22

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been made out of sandstone or whatever. Aand anyway the dentist there was been made out of sandstone or whatever. Aand anyway the dentist there was
20:29

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named  named 
20:31

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he was a big, big build of a bloke. he was a big, big build of a bloke.
20:35

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And anyway, the old man And anyway, the old man
20:38

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selected him as a dentist and he used to take us there. selected him as a dentist and he used to take us there.
20:42

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Boy, he was, he was  rough. Boy, he was, he was  rough.
20:46

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Ah, later on when he retired his son, his son took on dentistry, but I didn't go to him. So when you went to the Crown Street, like when you went to the Black and White Cafe. Ah, later on when he retired his son, his son took on dentistry, but I didn't go to him. So when you went to the Crown Street, like when you went to the Black and White Cafe.
21:02

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And next to the Black and White Cat-, Cafe was a fruit shop. And next to the Black and White Cat-, Cafe was a fruit shop.
21:06

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And then next door to that was Selfridges? And then next door to that was Selfridges?
21:11

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And then you go down to And then you go down to
21:14

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Crown Lane Crown Lane
21:16

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and that was Green's paper shop. and that was Green's paper shop.
21:19

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So the wife used to work in Green's. So the wife used to work in Green's.
21:22

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And And
21:24

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then when you went across to the Bank and then you went further down was, ah, Lowes and Cooee. Cooee was a, a boy's, it was a men's store. And there was a club called Pinocchio, then when you went across to the Bank and then you went further down was, ah, Lowes and Cooee. Cooee was a, a boy's, it was a men's store. And there was a club called Pinocchio,
21:40

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they had a club called Pinocchio. Over the road was Woolworths. they had a club called Pinocchio. Over the road was Woolworths.
21:47

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[Claire] Right, the only chain store you've mentioned so far, yes. [Ken] Yeah, there was Woolworths. [Claire] 'Cause every, 'cause what you're describing is a shopping centre full of independent shops whereas shopping centres now are nearly all chain stores. [Ken] There is still a liquor, liquor license where the mall is. [Claire] Yeah. [Ken] where the pub, there was a pub on the corner there, [Claire] Right, the only chain store you've mentioned so far, yes. [Ken] Yeah, there was Woolworths. [Claire] 'Cause every, 'cause what you're describing is a shopping centre full of independent shops whereas shopping centres now are nearly all chain stores. [Ken] There is still a liquor, liquor license where the mall is. [Claire] Yeah. [Ken] where the pub, there was a pub on the corner there,
22:11

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on Keira and Crown Street, was a pub. on Keira and Crown Street, was a pub.
22:14

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Well there was the Flinders Inn and there was a pub over the road. Well there was the Flinders Inn and there was a pub over the road.
22:18

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And I think the liquor license still stands today. And I think the liquor license still stands today.
22:22

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But further down was Tommy De Tass, Tommy Tassi. I think he died recently. He lived, he lived in the second house down on Cliff Road. They had a write up about him in the paper. But further down was Tommy De Tass, Tommy Tassi. I think he died recently. He lived, he lived in the second house down on Cliff Road. They had a write up about him in the paper.
22:37

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Near Belmore Basi Near Belmore Basi
22:40

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A A
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and then we used to go into the Spot and further down was the Spot cafe. We used to go there of a night and have coffee which was made out of essence and then we used to go into the Spot and further down was the Spot cafe. We used to go there of a night and have coffee which was made out of essence
22:54

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and chicory, no coffee beans, no, no, no, never heard of it. Never heard of it. and chicory, no coffee beans, no, no, no, never heard of it. Never heard of it.
23:00

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So we had coffee made out of - and toast. [Claire] So it sounds like there was a reasonable amount of nightlife if you wanted to go out and about. [Ken] There was a lot of nightlife in Wollongong. Wollongong now is dead. So we had coffee made out of - and toast. [Claire] So it sounds like there was a reasonable amount of nightlife if you wanted to go out and about. [Ken] There was a lot of nightlife in Wollongong. Wollongong now is dead.
23:15

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Then, then would leave it for dead. Um... Then, then would leave it for dead. Um...
23:20

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[Claire] What about live music? Was there places you could go and hear music and go dancing? [Ken] There was concerts, [Claire] What about live music? Was there places you could go and hear music and go dancing? [Ken] There was concerts,
23:28

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there was three picture shows in Wollongong. there was three picture shows in Wollongong.
23:32

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[Claire] Really? [Ken] Yeah, you go down to the, down Keira Street [Claire] Really? [Ken] Yeah, you go down to the, down Keira Street
23:38

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and Burelli Street and Burelli Street
23:40

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there was the Crown theatre. there was the Crown theatre.
23:44

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And Stringers used to have the shop adjoining the picture show. Max Swimmer, Max Stringer was a good swimmer and so was his brother. They lived out at North Beach, over the road from North Beach. And Stringers used to have the shop adjoining the picture show. Max Swimmer, Max Stringer was a good swimmer and so was his brother. They lived out at North Beach, over the road from North Beach.
23:59

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Ah, they were good swimmers. Over the road from the Crown picture show was a produce store. Ah, they were good swimmers. Over the road from the Crown picture show was a produce store.
24:06

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Next door to that was a blacksmith shop. [Claire] Oh, really? Proper, where... [Ken] A proper one. [Claire] And that people used to bring their horses down the street and take... [Ken] Yeah, all the shops ha horse troughs Next door to that was a blacksmith shop. [Claire] Oh, really? Proper, where... [Ken] A proper one. [Claire] And that people used to bring their horses down the street and take... [Ken] Yeah, all the shops ha horse troughs
24:20

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and awnings out-, outside their shops. [Claire] And, and there were plenty of horses around town still? [Ken] Oh, well it was the only means of transport. [Claire] Oh. and awnings out-, outside their shops. [Claire] And, and there were plenty of horses around town still? [Ken] Oh, well it was the only means of transport. [Claire] Oh.
24:30

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I mean Greens during the War had a utility that ran on batteries I mean Greens during the War had a utility that ran on batteries
24:36

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during the War,  during the War, 
24:39

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you go, you talk about batteries now, but you talk about during the War, you go, you talk about batteries now, but you talk about during the War,
24:45

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Greens had their utility that run on batteries then. [Claire] Hm-mm. Greens had their utility that run on batteries then. [Claire] Hm-mm.
24:49

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I mean cars used to get around with gas bags on the top and charcoal burners on the back, on the back of them and you open them up prematurely and blow your head off and all that. So many a person's blown their head off. I mean cars used to get around with gas bags on the top and charcoal burners on the back, on the back of them and you open them up prematurely and blow your head off and all that. So many a person's blown their head off.
25:05

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Seriously? Seriously?
25:07

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Through the charcoal burners. Through the charcoal burners.
25:09

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And when you go down to, And when you go down to,
25:12

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well, Campbell Street and Keira Street and Flinders Street... [Claire] And were they burning charcoal 'cause there was no oil, because it was the War or because it was cheap? [Ken] There was no petrol, you had coupons. [Claire] Right. [Ken] You had coupons and if you had motor cars, well or a business or whatever, you was allowed so many coupons. well, Campbell Street and Keira Street and Flinders Street... [Claire] And were they burning charcoal 'cause there was no oil, because it was the War or because it was cheap? [Ken] There was no petrol, you had coupons. [Claire] Right. [Ken] You had coupons and if you had motor cars, well or a business or whatever, you was allowed so many coupons.
25:34

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And everyone that worked in the coke ovens and the steelworks And everyone that worked in the coke ovens and the steelworks
25:39

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carried a gallon tin in their bag. carried a gallon tin in their bag.
25:42

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They had Gladstone bags and they used to get a gallon of benzol from there to run their car. But some used to mix it with kerosene and turps and They had Gladstone bags and they used to get a gallon of benzol from there to run their car. But some used to mix it with kerosene and turps and
25:53

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run their cars. And... run their cars. And...
25:56

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Were there many cars? Were there many cars?
25:58

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No. No.
26:01

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No there was no traffic, traffic problem like today. No there was no traffic, traffic problem like today.
26:05

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Ah, we used to park our motorbikes Ah, we used to park our motorbikes
26:07

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on the northern side of Crown Street on the northern side of Crown Street
26:11

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and the car owners used to complain. and the car owners used to complain.
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You might have 30 or 40 motorbikes, and there's no room for cars. So old Sergeant Gibson who was a Sergeant of police, then they had a, an old Indian and sidecar was the police motorbike, You might have 30 or 40 motorbikes, and there's no room for cars. So old Sergeant Gibson who was a Sergeant of police, then they had a, an old Indian and sidecar was the police motorbike,
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tried to book us because we didn't have our parking lights on. tried to book us because we didn't have our parking lights on.
26:37

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[laughs] But he, he was history. He was history. But on that side where Woolworths were, on that corner was a cake shop  [laughs] But he, he was history. He was history. But on that side where Woolworths were, on that corner was a cake shop 
26:48

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and it was called Spongeland. and it was called Spongeland.
26:51

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And further up was called Cakeland.  so you had Cakeland and Spongeland, a conflict of two, And further up was called Cakeland.  so you had Cakeland and Spongeland, a conflict of two,
26:57

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two, and you used to have your wedding receptions in the hall out the back. two, and you used to have your wedding receptions in the hall out the back.
27:05

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And there used to be a barber up there. [Claire] Another one, right? [Ken] Yeah, a barber, who used to sell clothes, bowling clothes and all that. [Claire] As a sideline sort of thing. 'Cause, 'cause presumably he, he was a member of the Bowling Club or...? And there used to be a barber up there. [Claire] Another one, right? [Ken] Yeah, a barber, who used to sell clothes, bowling clothes and all that. [Claire] As a sideline sort of thing. 'Cause, 'cause presumably he, he was a member of the Bowling Club or...?
27:22

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Well I was too young, I was too young then to, to know what he was but you used to buy tobacco and cheroots and Well I was too young, I was too young then to, to know what he was but you used to buy tobacco and cheroots and
27:32

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all that, all that stuff. But, um, all that, all that stuff. But, um,
27:36

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yeah, Waters, Waters used to be up on the corner on the, ah... [Claire] Was that the hardware store? [Ken] Yeah, they used to be up on the corner, the corner of, um, Atchison Street, I think Atchison Street and Crown Street. yeah, Waters, Waters used to be up on the corner on the, ah... [Claire] Was that the hardware store? [Ken] Yeah, they used to be up on the corner, the corner of, um, Atchison Street, I think Atchison Street and Crown Street.
27:53

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Over the road was a pub, another pubh, there were heaps of pubs. Over the road was a pub, another pubh, there were heaps of pubs.
27:57

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And next to the pub was a produce store, And next to the pub was a produce store,
28:02

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was Looneys, Looneys produce. was Looneys, Looneys produce.
28:05

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And next door to that was a saddlery. [Claire] You described, And next door to that was a saddlery. [Claire] You described,
28:11

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um, a town centre that's got far more butchers than it has now, but you've also mentioned produce stores, quite a few produce stores. Is that for all the horses? [Ken] Well everyone sold, you know, had horses. Davis and Penneys used to, we'll get to Davis and Penneys, we'll get to them later. But up in Crown Street, I mean the, the pub near Jubilee Bridge was run by, um, a town centre that's got far more butchers than it has now, but you've also mentioned produce stores, quite a few produce stores. Is that for all the horses? [Ken] Well everyone sold, you know, had horses. Davis and Penneys used to, we'll get to Davis and Penneys, we'll get to them later. But up in Crown Street, I mean the, the pub near Jubilee Bridge was run by,
28:40

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um, ah, the people um, ah, the people
28:42

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Tattersalls was named Tattersalls and I use to live in Keira Street. Tattersalls was named Tattersalls and I use to live in Keira Street.
28:48

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Like the girl used to, half of their family used to live with us in Keira Street, in 50 Keira Street, and they, they had the pub. Like the girl used to, half of their family used to live with us in Keira Street, in 50 Keira Street, and they, they had the pub.
28:53

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So, between, they had the coldest So, between, they had the coldest
28:56

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in Wollongong. Oh, it used to give you a headache in Wollongong. Oh, it used to give you a headache
28:58

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up at Railway Parade was a horse trough. up at Railway Parade was a horse trough.
29:08

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Years later, they built toilets. Now I think they've pulled them down. Years later, they built toilets. Now I think they've pulled them down.
29:15

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Ah, on the corner was Ah, on the corner was
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the baby shop where everyone bought all their baby clothes and all that. No, I mean when you go back to, to where we lived in Keira Street, the baby shop where everyone bought all their baby clothes and all that. No, I mean when you go back to, to where we lived in Keira Street,
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I mentioned the mountain side of Keira Street, now over on the seaside of Keira Street, I mentioned the mountain side of Keira Street, now over on the seaside of Keira Street,
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in front of us in Campbell and Keira Street, [Claire] Hm-mm. [Ken] was a vacant paddock. in front of us in Campbell and Keira Street, [Claire] Hm-mm. [Ken] was a vacant paddock.
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That's where the Sally's, That's where the Sally's,
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the Sallys are now. the Sallys are now.
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Right, just, just down from, ah, Smiths Hill High. [Ken] Yeah, well that was... [Claire] Was the school there then? Right, just, just down from, ah, Smiths Hill High. [Ken] Yeah, well that was... [Claire] Was the school there then?
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Smiths Hill used to be Smith Hill Domestic Science Smiths Hill used to be Smith Hill Domestic Science
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girls school. girls school.
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And the high school was the high school up in Keira Street. And the high school was the high school up in Keira Street.
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There was a high school. Now they moved the Smiths Hill girls school up to the high school, There was a high school. Now they moved the Smiths Hill girls school up to the high school,
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they call the high school Smith Hill high school. they call the high school Smith Hill high school.
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and over at North Wollongong they have Keira Boys and the High School. That was years later. [Claire] Right. And where the paddock was you just mentioned on the corner of Campbell and Keira, is that where the old bus station was for a while that they've now built over and put flats on? [Ken] No, up, up on the corner up on, um, Smith Street and over at North Wollongong they have Keira Boys and the High School. That was years later. [Claire] Right. And where the paddock was you just mentioned on the corner of Campbell and Keira, is that where the old bus station was for a while that they've now built over and put flats on? [Ken] No, up, up on the corner up on, um, Smith Street
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and Keira Street was Davis and Penneys. They were the suppliers of all food to the shops. [Claire] Right. So opposite the Dions building? [Ken] Yeah. They used to have horse and carts, horse and wagons and Keira Street was Davis and Penneys. They were the suppliers of all food to the shops. [Claire] Right. So opposite the Dions building? [Ken] Yeah. They used to have horse and carts, horse and wagons
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and they used to put dressing and diamonds and hearts and so be it. You'd find them on the road and you'd see the horses going up the street and sparks flying off their shoes and all that. So down next to Davis and Penneys was the Cooee, Cooee guesthouse and next door was an old wooden bridge. Now that was, I'm going back to during the War in the '40s. [Claire] You describing a wooden bridge suggests that a creek. There's no Creek there now is there? and they used to put dressing and diamonds and hearts and so be it. You'd find them on the road and you'd see the horses going up the street and sparks flying off their shoes and all that. So down next to Davis and Penneys was the Cooee, Cooee guesthouse and next door was an old wooden bridge. Now that was, I'm going back to during the War in the '40s. [Claire] You describing a wooden bridge suggests that a creek. There's no Creek there now is there?
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[Ken] There used to be, Mt Keira Incline, [Claire] Right. [Ken] there used to be a coke ovens over in Magassy's paddock, [Ken] There used to be, Mt Keira Incline, [Claire] Right. [Ken] there used to be a coke ovens over in Magassy's paddock,
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near the Collegians, near the Collegians,
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where the Collegians are, there  where the Collegians are, there 
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a coke ovens there and Magassy's lane that runs up on the side of the Collegians was a gas works and naturally all the cars used to run on gas and all that. [Claire] Based on the coal, extracting the... [Ken] So there was an engine used to come down the Incline and there was a railway line right down to the beach. a coke ovens there and Magassy's lane that runs up on the side of the Collegians was a gas works and naturally all the cars used to run on gas and all that. [Claire] Based on the coal, extracting the... [Ken] So there was an engine used to come down the Incline and there was a railway line right down to the beach.
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And that used to go across Flinders Street And that used to go across Flinders Street
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and underneath the bridge in Keira Street, underneath the bridge in Church Street and underneath the bridge in Keira Street, underneath the bridge in Church Street
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down to Belmore Basin, they used to load the colliers. [Claire] So what became of that? down to Belmore Basin, they used to load the colliers. [Claire] So what became of that?
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They pulled it to bits. They, they pulled... [Claire] Do you remember when? They pulled it to bits. They, they pulled... [Claire] Do you remember when?
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In the '40s in the '40s, they pulled the, the old wooden bridge in Keira and Church Street, In the '40s in the '40s, they pulled the, the old wooden bridge in Keira and Church Street,
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they pulled it down with the old Council steam roller. they pulled it down with the old Council steam roller.
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They only had a steam roller then. They only had a steam roller then.
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And you're, the Council's chambers, was, their workshop and all that was Corrimal Street. And you're, the Council's chambers, was, their workshop and all that was Corrimal Street.
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And you used to have a gas chamber that you could gas,  pay two bob (2/ And you used to have a gas chamber that you could gas,  pay two bob (2/
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and get all your and get all your
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all your pets didn't perform or whatever gassed. all your pets didn't perform or whatever gassed.
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There was no human rights or anything then. There was no human rights or anything then.
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And the Council used to gas your pets for two bob, And the Council used to gas your pets for two bob,
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greyhounds and all. greyhounds and all.
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So the Town Clerk, I think it was J J Kelly, he was the Town Clerk for years and years and years and years. Swires seems to ring a bell. He, he had trucks in the steelworks So the Town Clerk, I think it was J J Kelly, he was the Town Clerk for years and years and years and years. Swires seems to ring a bell. He, he had trucks in the steelworks
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and all the tyres on these trucks was and all the tyres on these trucks was
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run by him. So whether he, wSwires was the Mayor,  run by him. So whether he, wSwires was the Mayor, 
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whether Swires was the Mayor, the Mayor of the Council. Yeah, so the the railway line used to run down from Mt Keira down the Incline, whether Swires was the Mayor, the Mayor of the Council. Yeah, so the the railway line used to run down from Mt Keira down the Incline,
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down to where they used to load the coal and used to run down to Belmore Basin and  down to where they used to load the coal and used to run down to Belmore Basin and 
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be loaded on the ships. [Claire] I can imagine it would be a problem it running through the City like that now, but at the same time it would be a really useful, it would have been a really useful thing to have. [Ken] Well, they had two, two wooden bridges in Keira Street and Church Street. [Claire] I'm just thinking about the rail line. [Ken] And the railway line used to go underneath. be loaded on the ships. [Claire] I can imagine it would be a problem it running through the City like that now, but at the same time it would be a really useful, it would have been a really useful thing to have. [Ken] Well, they had two, two wooden bridges in Keira Street and Church Street. [Claire] I'm just thinking about the rail line. [Ken] And the railway line used to go underneath.
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And, ah,  And, ah, 
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yeah, it used to go down to Belmore Basin. [Claire] It just seems really short sighted. If you've gone to the trouble to build a railway line yeah, it used to go down to Belmore Basin. [Claire] It just seems really short sighted. If you've gone to the trouble to build a railway line
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to then pull it up. to then pull it up.
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Well you know, I mean the Aldermen, I mean they're like the politicians, Well you know, I mean the Aldermen, I mean they're like the politicians,
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they get a port-, portfolio to do something they get a port-, portfolio to do something
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but they know nothing about it, so they get a consultant but they know nothing about it, so they get a consultant
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who knows all about it, so the consultancy makes a mistake and the politicians will walk away. [Claire] I'm surprised the railway was under the who knows all about it, so the consultancy makes a mistake and the politicians will walk away. [Claire] I'm surprised the railway was under the
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authority of the Council rather than the State government. authority of the Council rather than the State government.
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Well, whether the Colliery was owned by the mine... [Claire] Oh, so it was a private rail line? [Ken] Oh, I, I don't know. I was, I was young, I was young. [Claire] Right. I'm just curious 'cause no one's ever mentioned it before. [Ken] Yeah, there was two wooden bridges, there was a bridge in Keira Street and Church Street and they pulled them down. Well, whether the Colliery was owned by the mine... [Claire] Oh, so it was a private rail line? [Ken] Oh, I, I don't know. I was, I was young, I was young. [Claire] Right. I'm just curious 'cause no one's ever mentioned it before. [Ken] Yeah, there was two wooden bridges, there was a bridge in Keira Street and Church Street and they pulled them down.
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[Claire] The rail line? [Ken] The old, the old ??? [Claire] The rail line? [Ken] The old, the old ???
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[Claire] Interesting. [Ken] Yeah, well I mean [Claire] Interesting. [Ken] Yeah, well I mean
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we came down in 1939 and we came down in 1939 and
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during the War again a boat during the War again a boat
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pulled into the Wollongong harbour, which must have been smaller. pulled into the Wollongong harbour, which must have been smaller.
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And down in, in Flinders Street, like where Campbell Street and Keira Street and Flinders Street is now is a big complex. And down in, in Flinders Street, like where Campbell Street and Keira Street and Flinders Street is now is a big complex.
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There's four body corporates There's four body corporates
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that run all the, the apartments there. that run all the, the apartments there.
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Now when you was in Campbell Street Now when you was in Campbell Street
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there was McKeller Ford there was McKeller Ford
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they lived on the seaside. they lived on the seaside.
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Um, back to, um, Wollongong, there was two arcades in Wollongong. There was Brights Arcade and there was Central Arcade, Um, back to, um, Wollongong, there was two arcades in Wollongong. There was Brights Arcade and there was Central Arcade,
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and they were two storeys and I think Brights Arcade was where the Plaza is now and they were two storeys and I think Brights Arcade was where the Plaza is now
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where you go shopping. And up in there was Mason's  where you go shopping. And up in there was Mason's 
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Photography Photography
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and they used to use the glass plate. and they used to use the glass plate.
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And they coloured by hand. And they coloured by hand.
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And they taught me how to do it because old Ma Mason used to live in half our house And they taught me how to do it because old Ma Mason used to live in half our house
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in 50 Keira Street. in 50 Keira Street.
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No, Wollongong, I mean No, Wollongong, I mean
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down on the Old Port Road, naturally was the Golf Club, down on the Old Port Road, naturally was the Golf Club,
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ah, was the treatment works in between the Golf Club. ah, was the treatment works in between the Golf Club.
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And down on the Port Road on the sea side was And down on the Port Road on the sea side was
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a rifle range, a rifle range,
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a landing strip. a landing strip.
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And they, where you trialled your dogs. [Claire] Was this all as a result, because of the War or was there..? [Ken] Yeah, it was the War and after the War and all that. And they, where you trialled your dogs. [Claire] Was this all as a result, because of the War or was there..? [Ken] Yeah, it was the War and after the War and all that.
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And over on the, the other side, the mountain side was the flats. And over on the, the other side, the mountain side was the flats.
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To me, I might be wrong, but it was the biggest scam that's been in Wollongong. To me, I might be wrong, but it was the biggest scam that's been in Wollongong.
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This guy built a, he was gunna mine salt, This guy built a, he was gunna mine salt,
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so he built the building so he built the building
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and shot through with the money. and shot through with the money.
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And that used to be flats, it was sand. [Claire] Salt pans. [Ken] Flats. [Claire] Right. [Ken] And the old Port bridge was made out of wood and we used to travel on that. But we used to have a, we marked out a TT track and we, we raced our motorbikes on there. And that used to be flats, it was sand. [Claire] Salt pans. [Ken] Flats. [Claire] Right. [Ken] And the old Port bridge was made out of wood and we used to travel on that. But we used to have a, we marked out a TT track and we, we raced our motorbikes on there.
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We used to have that big of a crowd of cars that used to stop on the Old Port Road. Old Sergeant Gibson come down and told us to stop it, that we was holding the bloody, holding the traffic up. We used to have that big of a crowd of cars that used to stop on the Old Port Road. Old Sergeant Gibson come down and told us to stop it, that we was holding the bloody, holding the traffic up.
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So anyway, but when I was a wharfie, yeah, we used to travel over the old bridge, the old wooden bridge and all that. So anyway, but when I was a wharfie, yeah, we used to travel over the old bridge, the old wooden bridge and all that.
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[Claire] Did you notice, um, were you much affected by the War down here at Wollongong? [Ken] Well next door was old Bob Greentree and he was supposed to have been a warden. [Claire] Did you notice, um, were you much affected by the War down here at Wollongong? [Ken] Well next door was old Bob Greentree and he was supposed to have been a warden.
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And we used to have nights of And we used to have nights of
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you'd shut your blinds and all that, you had your storm blinds and all that. you'd shut your blinds and all that, you had your storm blinds and all that.
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And the siren used to go and... [Claire] Really? [Ken] You used to turn your lights on and if he could see lights from outside And the siren used to go and... [Claire] Really? [Ken] You used to turn your lights on and if he could see lights from outside
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inside he'd tell you, inside he'd tell you,
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um, that he could see them. [Claire] Did they think Port Kembla was a target? [Ken] Port Kembla the, the, there used to be a lot of North Coast steamships used to use Port Kembla um, that he could see them. [Claire] Did they think Port Kembla was a target? [Ken] Port Kembla the, the, there used to be a lot of North Coast steamships used to use Port Kembla
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and this ship used Port Kembla and they signalled him to stop and this ship used Port Kembla and they signalled him to stop
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and he didn't stop so they fired the shot across his bow and he didn't stop so they fired the shot across his bow
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and they come down the next day and give him a bill for £25 for the shot. [Claire] [laughs]. [Ken] That was from the gunnery at Port Kembla, you know. [Claire] Right. and they come down the next day and give him a bill for £25 for the shot. [Claire] [laughs]. [Ken] That was from the gunnery at Port Kembla, you know. [Claire] Right.
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[Ken] During the, the War the Yanks built a cement ship, [Ken] During the, the War the Yanks built a cement ship,
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they built a ship entirely out of cement. they built a ship entirely out of cement.
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[Claire] Did it float well? [Ken] It got to Port Kembla. [Claire] Did it float well? [Ken] It got to Port Kembla.
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The old man worked on it. The old man worked on it.
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[Claire] I, I guess they, they, you still hear about, um, sailing boats that have cement hulls, partially cement. [Ken] Yeah, well, this was in the '40s. [Claire] Right. And this was like a troop carrier, or..? [Ken] Well, it sounds like a cargo ship. [Claire] I, I guess they, they, you still hear about, um, sailing boats that have cement hulls, partially cement. [Ken] Yeah, well, this was in the '40s. [Claire] Right. And this was like a troop carrier, or..? [Ken] Well, it sounds like a cargo ship.
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Um, I mean the, the guards... [Claire] Was that because they needed steel weapons? [Ken] I've got the cut out in the paper Um, I mean the, the guards... [Claire] Was that because they needed steel weapons? [Ken] I've got the cut out in the paper
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on the the Dolphin, the Dolphin was the name of the ship on the the Dolphin, the Dolphin was the name of the ship
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in Port Kembla when the wharfies went on strike. in Port Kembla when the wharfies went on strike.
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They weren't gunna send pig iron to Japan to make into the bombs and bullets They weren't gunna send pig iron to Japan to make into the bombs and bullets
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and come back. and come back.
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So that was the Dolphin, the Dolphin dispute then. So that was the Dolphin, the Dolphin dispute then.
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And I mean, then I mean, what, I've got me father's Union book and all that. I've got his records, um, with all that. And I mean, then I mean, what, I've got me father's Union book and all that. I've got his records, um, with all that.
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But, you know, there, there was more activity in 1939 in Wollongong But, you know, there, there was more activity in 1939 in Wollongong
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than what there is now. We, we've gone backwards. [Claire] What you mean, just generally social and..? [Ken] Just generally, I mean... [Claire] So what do you think changed, what, what, what stopped it, what made it ...? [Ken] Oh, smart phones, the electronic age and trying to cut out of people and rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and and all that. The emphasis was more on money. I mean then than what there is now. We, we've gone backwards. [Claire] What you mean, just generally social and..? [Ken] Just generally, I mean... [Claire] So what do you think changed, what, what, what stopped it, what made it ...? [Ken] Oh, smart phones, the electronic age and trying to cut out of people and rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and and all that. The emphasis was more on money. I mean then
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just after the War just after the War
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was was
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the Illawarra Leagues Club, which is now owned by the Gleesons. the Illawarra Leagues Club, which is now owned by the Gleesons.
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Next door was a Next door was a
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barbershop. It was a carpark. [Claire] Another barbershop, yeah? [Ken] Another barbershop. Jimmy Abberton. [Claire] Right. Sounds like the men of Wollongong were very, ah, aware of their hair. barbershop. It was a carpark. [Claire] Another barbershop, yeah? [Ken] Another barbershop. Jimmy Abberton. [Claire] Right. Sounds like the men of Wollongong were very, ah, aware of their hair.
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Or did they get shaves, did they go there for shaves as well? [Ken] When you got married Or did they get shaves, did they go there for shaves as well? [Ken] When you got married
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you went to the barbers and you got a haircut, you got a shave with a cut throat. you went to the barbers and you got a haircut, you got a shave with a cut throat.
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When you got married  When you got married 
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you had to do that. you had to do that.
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But the, the Illawarra Leagues Club was the Southern Cross Dance Hall. But the, the Illawarra Leagues Club was the Southern Cross Dance Hall.
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And up at the Diggers was 50:50 was Jock Kidd and his orchestra used to play there And up at the Diggers was 50:50 was Jock Kidd and his orchestra used to play there
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and it was 50:50. and it was 50:50.
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Down in the, the other, Down in the, the other,
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was all Jazz. If you wasn't a Catholic, ah, you didn't get a dance, no, no way. So being 50:50 you used to hide your plonk in the grass outside, was all Jazz. If you wasn't a Catholic, ah, you didn't get a dance, no, no way. So being 50:50 you used to hide your plonk in the grass outside,
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drink half a bottle and you'd be Fred Astaire and you'd go in there, you know, you'd be dancing fantastic and all that. drink half a bottle and you'd be Fred Astaire and you'd go in there, you know, you'd be dancing fantastic and all that.
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Ah, that's where I met the wife and that, that was in 1952. Ah, that's where I met the wife and that, that was in 1952.
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And over the road from where Rivers are now And over the road from where Rivers are now
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used to be that Co-op. used to be that Co-op.
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And on the corner where the picture show is, used to be the ambulance station. [Claire] Right. So you're talking about a lot of places to go out and And on the corner where the picture show is, used to be the ambulance station. [Claire] Right. So you're talking about a lot of places to go out and
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have a good time. [Ken] I could go on for hours and hours and hours. have a good time. [Ken] I could go on for hours and hours and hours.
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Unfortunately I've got a long term memory, but I've got a, a you know, short, short term memory, well, yeah, I get by. But long term memory, yeah, I can go on about Wollongong. When used to go down Crown Street Unfortunately I've got a long term memory, but I've got a, a you know, short, short term memory, well, yeah, I get by. But long term memory, yeah, I can go on about Wollongong. When used to go down Crown Street
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and I mean when you used to come to the, ah, the Post office, it was called the East Wollongong Post Office and everything was ?messaged? from post office to post office to post office. and I mean when you used to come to the, ah, the Post office, it was called the East Wollongong Post Office and everything was ?messaged? from post office to post office to post office.
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And next door was a shop called, ah, And next door was a shop called, ah,
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Kents Kents
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and he used to have a heap of tools stacked in his truck. and he used to have a heap of tools stacked in his truck.
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So the smarties used to come along and pick the tool So the smarties used to come along and pick the tool
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right on the bottom right in the front. right on the bottom right in the front.
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But he was awake to them, he had two of them. He had the second one outside But he was awake to them, he had two of them. He had the second one outside
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and when they used to say, "Oh, can I see that tool?" and when they used to say, "Oh, can I see that tool?"
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"Yeah." He used to go and get it. So then next door to that was BCH. "Yeah." He used to go and get it. So then next door to that was BCH.
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Next door was a real estate place, I think ..... [Claire] The first one you mentioned. I was just thinking that the two things you haven't mentioned that now dominate retail are real estate agents and banks. [Ken] Yeah. [Claire] And you haven't mentioned either. 'Cause up until recently... [Ken] Up further up, near, near Central Arcade Next door was a real estate place, I think ..... [Claire] The first one you mentioned. I was just thinking that the two things you haven't mentioned that now dominate retail are real estate agents and banks. [Ken] Yeah. [Claire] And you haven't mentioned either. 'Cause up until recently... [Ken] Up further up, near, near Central Arcade
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was a bank. was a bank.
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Next door was the Blue Ribbon cake shop. Next door was the Blue Ribbon cake shop.
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And next to the Blue Ribbon cake shop was Huttons the delicatessens. And next to the Blue Ribbon cake shop was Huttons the delicatessens.
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Next door was H G Palmers. Next door was H G Palmers.
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Evidently they scammed the, the shareholders. There was hell to play about H G Palmers. Evidently they scammed the, the shareholders. There was hell to play about H G Palmers.
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[Claire] Do you think that with the rise of the real estates and the banks goes the decline of the... [Ken] Rich, the rich got hungrier and hungrier and the poor got poorer. So where you were when you got down to the Oxford... [Claire] Also, sorry to interrupt, presumably you were also subject to ebb and flow with employment, [Claire] Do you think that with the rise of the real estates and the banks goes the decline of the... [Ken] Rich, the rich got hungrier and hungrier and the poor got poorer. So where you were when you got down to the Oxford... [Claire] Also, sorry to interrupt, presumably you were also subject to ebb and flow with employment,
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or was there always employment? [Ken] No, in the '50s you, you could go and apply for a job and if you didn't like the look of the boss you'd say "Bye, bye." [Claire] And go and get another one. [Ken] And go and get another job. There was heaps of jobs. But when you used to go down Crown Street, I mean, Central Arcade and the banks and the Blue Ribbon and the delicatessens and H G Palmers and all that. When you get down the bottom was Pringles, Pringles Pie Shop. or was there always employment? [Ken] No, in the '50s you, you could go and apply for a job and if you didn't like the look of the boss you'd say "Bye, bye." [Claire] And go and get another one. [Ken] And go and get another job. There was heaps of jobs. But when you used to go down Crown Street, I mean, Central Arcade and the banks and the Blue Ribbon and the delicatessens and H G Palmers and all that. When you get down the bottom was Pringles, Pringles Pie Shop.
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They were supposed to have the best pies in Wollongong. I mean there was umpteen pie makers in Wollongong. There was umpteen. There was Wilsons and yeah, oh, you know, They were supposed to have the best pies in Wollongong. I mean there was umpteen pie makers in Wollongong. There was umpteen. There was Wilsons and yeah, oh, you know,
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God knows what. God knows what.
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They were at North Wollongong. They were at North Wollongong.
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And then, you know, to deliver pies on the back of a horse and cart, you know And then, you know, to deliver pies on the back of a horse and cart, you know
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'cause ??. [Claire] Did they take pies to the steelworks and sell them there for lunch? [Ken] Well, I was going to school then. [Claire] I was just curious. [Ken] I mean, then they had a brain wave of oranges, 'cause ??. [Claire] Did they take pies to the steelworks and sell them there for lunch? [Ken] Well, I was going to school then. [Claire] I was just curious. [Ken] I mean, then they had a brain wave of oranges,
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cold oranges. The Health department put the ?? on that. cold oranges. The Health department put the ?? on that.
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And it's illegal to sell frozen oranges. When we buy oranges from California, from America, And it's illegal to sell frozen oranges. When we buy oranges from California, from America,
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they're 42 days old. [Claire] Mmm. [Ken] And they're kept in what they call a refrigerated container. they're 42 days old. [Claire] Mmm. [Ken] And they're kept in what they call a refrigerated container.
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They are frozen. They are frozen.
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They sell you, they sell you frozen oranges, oranges that they've thawed. [Claire] Just back to the, um, They sell you, they sell you frozen oranges, oranges that they've thawed. [Claire] Just back to the, um,
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when you were working in the factory making fridges, when you were working in the factory making fridges,
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did you, how long before you owned a fridge after you worked in that factory? [Ken] Well, the old man, years later, did you, how long before you owned a fridge after you worked in that factory? [Ken] Well, the old man, years later,
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he bought a Hallstrom, a Hallstrom fridge he bought a Hallstrom, a Hallstrom fridge
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which was either gas or kerosene. which was either gas or kerosene.
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And because then we'd moved up to 38 Keira Street And because then we'd moved up to 38 Keira Street
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and then they had fridges and all that. and then they had fridges and all that.
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We had a gas, gas fridge. We had a gas, gas fridge.
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But when we were down in 50 Keira Street, no, no. [Claire] Right. So it was... [Ken] The house was built out of Oregon. And then But when we were down in 50 Keira Street, no, no. [Claire] Right. So it was... [Ken] The house was built out of Oregon. And then
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because it was built out of softwood because it was built out of softwood
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the insurance policy was dearer the insurance policy was dearer
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because your house burnt down faster. because your house burnt down faster.
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Ah, you know. [Claire] So can you remember when most people you knew started to have a fridge, Ah, you know. [Claire] So can you remember when most people you knew started to have a fridge,
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that it was common to go into someone's house and there'd be a fridge? [Ken] Well, I knew everyone had an ice box. [Claire] Yeah, but I mean, not an ice box. [Ken] No, when, when the fridges come out, I mean... [Claire] Yeah, when people started to use them. [Ken] Years ago we used to call it luxury. [Claire] Right. [Ken] And a fridge and all that was called luxury. that it was common to go into someone's house and there'd be a fridge? [Ken] Well, I knew everyone had an ice box. [Claire] Yeah, but I mean, not an ice box. [Ken] No, when, when the fridges come out, I mean... [Claire] Yeah, when people started to use them. [Ken] Years ago we used to call it luxury. [Claire] Right. [Ken] And a fridge and all that was called luxury.
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Some people had it and some people didn't. But when they stopped making ice, Some people had it and some people didn't. But when they stopped making ice,
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because there was probably no sale in ice, because there was probably no sale in ice,
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everyone was buying fridges. [Claire] Can you remember when that was or not, roughly? [Ken] Well that was in the, in the '40s. [Claire] Right. [Ken] In was in the late '40s. Yeah, yeah, the late '40s. So down in Flinders Street when the railway line used to go across the road alongside McKellar Ford, everyone was buying fridges. [Claire] Can you remember when that was or not, roughly? [Ken] Well that was in the, in the '40s. [Claire] Right. [Ken] In was in the late '40s. Yeah, yeah, the late '40s. So down in Flinders Street when the railway line used to go across the road alongside McKellar Ford,
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it's called Harrigan Fords now, the, the pilot of the Avro Anson, they used the land it's called Harrigan Fords now, the, the pilot of the Avro Anson, they used the land
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on the Port Road on the Port Road
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Work with them. Work with them.
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And he used to fly the newspaper And he used to fly the newspaper
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from Sydney down to Wollongong, down to the Port Road in the old Avro Anson, the old Avro Anson was made out of wood, from Sydney down to Wollongong, down to the Port Road in the old Avro Anson, the old Avro Anson was made out of wood,
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you know, and he was the pilot. you know, and he was the pilot.
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So between the rifle range and Wollongong was more prosperous than what it is now. So between the rifle range and Wollongong was more prosperous than what it is now.
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But we, when we was kids But we, when we was kids
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we used to, down at Stuart Park. we used to, down at Stuart Park.
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Now Stuart Park used to have a zoo in between. Now Stuart Park used to have a zoo in between.
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And the kiosk was run by Needens And the kiosk was run by Needens
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and to buy a billy can of boiling water and to buy a billy can of boiling water
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'Boofy' used to charge you a shilling. 'Boofy' used to charge you a shilling.
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And he had a big copper. And he had a big copper.
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And he had boiling water in the copper. A lot of people used to have picnics and all that down Stuart Park. And he had boiling water in the copper. A lot of people used to have picnics and all that down Stuart Park.
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So then people could pitch tents and caravans and Christ knows what. [Claire] People use just camp there? [Ken] Yeah. So then people could pitch tents and caravans and Christ knows what. [Claire] People use just camp there? [Ken] Yeah.
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So the, the aunty and uncle that lived up in, So the, the aunty and uncle that lived up in,
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um, Gladesville, um, Gladesville,
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used to load all the stuff in the coal truck and he'd, ?Syd?, Syd used to bring it down used to load all the stuff in the coal truck and he'd, ?Syd?, Syd used to bring it down
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because her sister lived in Bank Street in Wollongong. because her sister lived in Bank Street in Wollongong.
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Well, he had five star, five star conditions. You had lino floor and you had the 12 x 12 tent and you had camp stretchers and Well, he had five star, five star conditions. You had lino floor and you had the 12 x 12 tent and you had camp stretchers and
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so be it. so be it.
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And she used to go to her sister's place and do her washing and all that. So years later when And she used to go to her sister's place and do her washing and all that. So years later when
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you could buy the caravan, or you could pitch a tent - it was mainly pitch a tent - you could buy the caravan, or you could pitch a tent - it was mainly pitch a tent -
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A wharfie by the name of Eddie Barker took over the running of the Council and after a few years he skipped with the money. A wharfie by the name of Eddie Barker took over the running of the Council and after a few years he skipped with the money.
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And the Council stopped camping, caravans down at Stuart Park. And the Council stopped camping, caravans down at Stuart Park.
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That's when the Council stopped it. That's when the Council stopped it.
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[Claire] And presumably elsewhere too, 'cause there would have been other places I imagine that people camped out. [Ken]  Yeah, but mainly [Claire] And presumably elsewhere too, 'cause there would have been other places I imagine that people camped out. [Ken]  Yeah, but mainly
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Wollongong. [Claire] Right. [Ken] Ah, Eddie Barker knocked off the Council off Wollongong. [Claire] Right. [Ken] Ah, Eddie Barker knocked off the Council off
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with the takings. with the takings.
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And as I said to you that Needens had the kiosk in Fairy Creek. And as I said to you that Needens had the kiosk in Fairy Creek.
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And we used to have And we used to have
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sheets of corrugated iron that you'd bend up and we used to get tar off the road and seal the ends and, and all that. And we used to play in Stuart Park. sheets of corrugated iron that you'd bend up and we used to get tar off the road and seal the ends and, and all that. And we used to play in Stuart Park.
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And over at North Wollongong And over at North Wollongong
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was the old skeleton bridge was the old skeleton bridge
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which used to be the Mount Pleasant coal mine had another incline and there used to be a loco shed which used to be the Mount Pleasant coal mine had another incline and there used to be a loco shed
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over where the university is. [Claire] Mmm. over where the university is. [Claire] Mmm.
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And there used to be a railway line used to go down Stuart Park And there used to be a railway line used to go down Stuart Park
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and over the boulevard to Belmore Basin and to ?? [Claire] Right. Cutting right through where the Innovation campus is now? [Ken] Yeah. and over the boulevard to Belmore Basin and to ?? [Claire] Right. Cutting right through where the Innovation campus is now? [Ken] Yeah.
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Yeah, they had, there was a loco shed over there. [Claire] Right. [Ken] They used to keep the locos. Yeah, they had, there was a loco shed over there. [Claire] Right. [Ken] They used to keep the locos.
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I mean the, the Mount Pleasant coal mine I mean that shut early I mean the, the Mount Pleasant coal mine I mean that shut early
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but they had an incline and all that, so that was up at Mount Ousley. but they had an incline and all that, so that was up at Mount Ousley.
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So Wollongong, you know, Wollongong over the years has gone backwards [laughs]. Out where the, ah, the Fairy Meadow Surf Club is, where the turn off is for them, So Wollongong, you know, Wollongong over the years has gone backwards [laughs]. Out where the, ah, the Fairy Meadow Surf Club is, where the turn off is for them,
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A E Baker used to dig trenches there and tip all the night soil there. A E Baker used to dig trenches there and tip all the night soil there.
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And over the road And over the road
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was a family that was a family that
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was a sandwich short of a barbecue. was a sandwich short of a barbecue.
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And on Sunday they used to get dressed up in suits and white shirts and ties and all that. And on Sunday they used to get dressed up in suits and white shirts and ties and all that.
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No shoes and socks. No shoes and socks.
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And they'd all get in this billy cart And they'd all get in this billy cart
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which had pumped up wheels and ?? which had pumped up wheels and ??
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And one that you could ride all over the place. And one that you could ride all over the place.
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And that was where Fairy Meadow And that was where Fairy Meadow
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Surf Club is, Surf Club is,
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on that corner, on that corner,
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they used to dump all the night soil. Now years and years and years ago when the steelworks, when they built a lot of houses they used to dump all the night soil. Now years and years and years ago when the steelworks, when they built a lot of houses
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over at Gwynneville, over at Gwynneville,
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they called ??   or BHP, the A E Bakers had a collision with a, a loco on the railway crossing and there's all the, all the workers that used to drive the sanitary cart they called ??   or BHP, the A E Bakers had a collision with a, a loco on the railway crossing and there's all the, all the workers that used to drive the sanitary cart
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used to hang their lunch on the front. used to hang their lunch on the front.
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And when they had a collision, naturally they were scooping all the [laughs] night soil up into tins. [Claire] So did you ever go much out of, sort of Wollongong central and go, you know, north to any of those places? [Ken] We used to go out to... [Claire] Or were they wild, the Northern, the northernorth and villages? [Ken] Thirroul, Thirroul pictures. So, ah, then we used to go skating, skating out at Thirroul. [Claire] Oh, of course, Kings Theatre where the skating ring is. And when they had a collision, naturally they were scooping all the [laughs] night soil up into tins. [Claire] So did you ever go much out of, sort of Wollongong central and go, you know, north to any of those places? [Ken] We used to go out to... [Claire] Or were they wild, the Northern, the northernorth and villages? [Ken] Thirroul, Thirroul pictures. So, ah, then we used to go skating, skating out at Thirroul. [Claire] Oh, of course, Kings Theatre where the skating ring is.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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I mean my old man couldn't drive. My brother couldn't drive. I think I had one other brother who could drive. There was five of us. And I think I had, I only had, like when we was living in Grafton we had a horse and sulky, and with having a farm there. So why we moved down to Wollongong, my mother was sick. I mean my old man couldn't drive. My brother couldn't drive. I think I had one other brother who could drive. There was five of us. And I think I had, I only had, like when we was living in Grafton we had a horse and sulky, and with having a farm there. So why we moved down to Wollongong, my mother was sick.
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[Claire] Oh, you said your, your father worked, got a job as a wharfie, maybe that was... [Ken] Yeah well maybe because I guess if he had to tran-, travel from Grafton to Sydney [Claire] Oh, you said your, your father worked, got a job as a wharfie, maybe that was... [Ken] Yeah well maybe because I guess if he had to tran-, travel from Grafton to Sydney
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all the time w my mother. all the time w my mother.
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I mean my mother died when I was about 6 or 7 I mean my mother died when I was about 6 or 7
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and I don't know my mother. and I don't know my mother.
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So So
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you know, whether he moved to Wollongong because it was closer to Sydney, like a transfer... [Claire] For going to hospital. [Ken] He transferred down. you know, whether he moved to Wollongong because it was closer to Sydney, like a transfer... [Claire] For going to hospital. [Ken] He transferred down.
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I don't, I don't know. [Claire] Well maybe it was work as much as her health. I don't, I don't know. [Claire] Well maybe it was work as much as her health.
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[Ken] Well, up on the Clarence, well I mean, I suppose the farm was handed down by his father [Ken] Well, up on the Clarence, well I mean, I suppose the farm was handed down by his father
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All of all the brothers they, they seem to have farms. They all these brothers. All of all the brothers they, they seem to have farms. They all these brothers.
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He He
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he, he had a fall out with some of his brothers. he, he had a fall out with some of his brothers.
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Um, one of his brothers donated land to the Catholic Church. Um, one of his brothers donated land to the Catholic Church.
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So he hated the Catholics so that was a fall out there, but so be it, so be it. [Claire] Just back for a moment, one question I wondered, you mentioned Sydney and, and your father taking your mother to Sydney for presumably for health reasons. So he hated the Catholics so that was a fall out there, but so be it, so be it. [Claire] Just back for a moment, one question I wondered, you mentioned Sydney and, and your father taking your mother to Sydney for presumably for health reasons.
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Did you, when you were living in Wollongong as an adult did you go up to Sydney much for any reason? [Ken] No I haven't been. [Claire] Is it a thing you did? [Ken] My mother is buried, is buried at Rookwood. [Claire] Right. [Ken] Ah, the elder son with his smart phone, like he knows how to use it and I don't. Did you, when you were living in Wollongong as an adult did you go up to Sydney much for any reason? [Ken] No I haven't been. [Claire] Is it a thing you did? [Ken] My mother is buried, is buried at Rookwood. [Claire] Right. [Ken] Ah, the elder son with his smart phone, like he knows how to use it and I don't.
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And he said, my mother is plot 43 Rookwood, 17 at Rookwood. And he said, my mother is plot 43 Rookwood, 17 at Rookwood.
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I haven't known that for years. I haven't known that for years.
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Whether she's got a headstone, so be it. Whether she's got a headstone, so be it.
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[Claire] No, I was just curious 'cause one of, one of the changes you've described, there was, um, was just how many places there were to go out [Claire] No, I was just curious 'cause one of, one of the changes you've described, there was, um, was just how many places there were to go out
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to have fun in Wollongong as an adult that there no longer are. And that people's, people now who live here are more inclined to go to Sydney for those things. [Ken] Well, they try to get backsides on seats in arenas and all that. They build them bigger to get more people to sit on seats so they can charge them more. But then like years and years ago to have fun in Wollongong as an adult that there no longer are. And that people's, people now who live here are more inclined to go to Sydney for those things. [Ken] Well, they try to get backsides on seats in arenas and all that. They build them bigger to get more people to sit on seats so they can charge them more. But then like years and years ago
58:21

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I said to you that there was there were three picture shows in Wollongong, there was the Savoy, I said to you that there was there were three picture shows in Wollongong, there was the Savoy,
58:27

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Crown and the Civic Crown and the Civic
58:30

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was the three pictures. And on a Sunday night the Civic used to have a concert was the three pictures. And on a Sunday night the Civic used to have a concert
58:35

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and that was a silver coin donation. and that was a silver coin donation.
58:39

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And the woman who used to run that was named Croft, Croft was her name, and she used to have a silver coin donation. And the woman who used to run that was named Croft, Croft was her name, and she used to have a silver coin donation.
58:49

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[ClaAnd were the musicians local musicians, or did they come from outside? [ClaAnd were the musicians local musicians, or did they come from outside?
58:56

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[Ken] Well, as far as I knew they were local, I mean... [Claire] So a lot of musicians... [Ken] Jock Kidd, Jock Kidd and his o and Col Anderson and  [Ken] Well, as far as I knew they were local, I mean... [Claire] So a lot of musicians... [Ken] Jock Kidd, Jock Kidd and his o and Col Anderson and 
59:02

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his, um, his Joy Boys. His Joy Boys used to play down the Illawarra, Illawarra Leagues Club. his, um, his Joy Boys. His Joy Boys used to play down the Illawarra, Illawarra Leagues Club.
59:08

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Um, there was no Collegians or anything like that, no, no. [Claire] What about theatre and plays and things like that, were there, was there any local drama? [Ken] Years ago in, Um, there was no Collegians or anything like that, no, no. [Claire] What about theatre and plays and things like that, were there, was there any local drama? [Ken] Years ago in,
59:21

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um, in Kembla Street um, in Kembla Street
59:24

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Council, Council's Council, Council's
59:27

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quarters used to be on the corner of Crown Street and Kembla Street quarters used to be on the corner of Crown Street and Kembla Street
59:32

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next to the old Post Office. next to the old Post Office.
59:35

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And further down the street And further down the street
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you had an Annexe. you had an Annexe.
59:40

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And when I was in the Scouts, when I was about 10 or 12 or, And when I was in the Scouts, when I was about 10 or 12 or,
59:45

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we, we all had to do a play, we all had to act and they, we called it the Awakening of Spring. we, we all had to do a play, we all had to act and they, we called it the Awakening of Spring.
59:55

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And we had bows and arrows and we had towels as nappies and so be it. And we had bows and arrows and we had towels as nappies and so be it.
1:00:01

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Over the road was a service station. Over the road was a service station.
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It was Frank Dwyer, Frank Dwyer's service station. It was Frank Dwyer, Frank Dwyer's service station.
1:00:10

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On the corner was Barnes Darling, On the corner was Barnes Darling,
1:00:13

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Darling, who was the Mayor, Darling, who was the Mayor,
1:00:15

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his mother and father had the furniture shop on the corner. his mother and father had the furniture shop on the corner.
1:00:20

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The employment centre was next door, used to go upstairs to the employment centre. I had to register then for National Service. I had my test up there and all that for National Service. Then over the road was a bank. Over the road was the, the pub, the Wollongong pub. You know every corner there was a pub, The employment centre was next door, used to go upstairs to the employment centre. I had to register then for National Service. I had my test up there and all that for National Service. Then over the road was a bank. Over the road was the, the pub, the Wollongong pub. You know every corner there was a pub,
1:00:45

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now there's nothing. I mean, people now they're whinging about because you've got to wear a face mask and Christ knows what. now there's nothing. I mean, people now they're whinging about because you've got to wear a face mask and Christ knows what.
1:00:54

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We had We had
1:00:55

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all those diseases, we had the plague years ago. all those diseases, we had the plague years ago.
1:00:60

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Um, mother-in-law's mother used to stand at the gate and give food to the other people. The plague, bubonic plague and all that, polio. We, we, we've been all through that. Um, mother-in-law's mother used to stand at the gate and give food to the other people. The plague, bubonic plague and all that, polio. We, we, we've been all through that.
1:01:15

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And now the younger generation, if it didn't happen the day before, it's happened too late. They're, they're impatient. And now the younger generation, if it didn't happen the day before, it's happened too late. They're, they're impatient.
1:01:23

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They're, you know, they're not like the old generation. They're, you know, they're not like the old generation.
1:01:27

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So, when you talk about today, I mean okay, you can have a dictionary there, you can have a smartphone there, you go,  Bang Bang, Bang Bang, you get your answer on your smartphone or you look up your dictionary and you get the same meaning of the word in the dictionary. [Claire] One thing that strikes me is, um, are you glad that your family moved from Grafton to Wollongong and you grew up in Wollongong rather than Grafton? So, when you talk about today, I mean okay, you can have a dictionary there, you can have a smartphone there, you go,  Bang Bang, Bang Bang, you get your answer on your smartphone or you look up your dictionary and you get the same meaning of the word in the dictionary. [Claire] One thing that strikes me is, um, are you glad that your family moved from Grafton to Wollongong and you grew up in Wollongong rather than Grafton?
1:01:57

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Because I was 6, I suppose I didn't have an attitude then. Because I was 6, I suppose I didn't have an attitude then.
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And I mean my, my mate,  And I mean my, my mate, 
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now with my mate was Roy Onions, now with my mate was Roy Onions,
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that was his name. We used to live about 5 miles from town. We used to walk every Saturday to the picture show barefooted and in short pants - by ourselves. We used to walk to the picture show that was his name. We used to live about 5 miles from town. We used to walk every Saturday to the picture show barefooted and in short pants - by ourselves. We used to walk to the picture show
1:02:27

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and and
1:02:30

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no one thought anything about it. no one thought anything about it.
1:02:32

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Today, no, no, you wouldn't have your kids. I mean when you, you talk about the corner of Crown and Keira on the seaside Today, no, no, you wouldn't have your kids. I mean when you, you talk about the corner of Crown and Keira on the seaside
1:02:44

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was a pub and in the, in the back of the pub was a fernery and alongside was the, a cab rank, was a pub and in the, in the back of the pub was a fernery and alongside was the, a cab rank,
1:02:53

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Gold Top cabs used to be there. Go upstairs to the Workers Club and they sold Brookvale Beer and that which was awful. Gold Top cabs used to be there. Go upstairs to the Workers Club and they sold Brookvale Beer and that which was awful.
1:03:05

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That's where the Regent is now That's where the Regent is now
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but that used to be a Workers Club. but that used to be a Workers Club.
1:03:11

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And then they went from there up on to the corner where the Fair Trading is now. And then they went from there up on to the corner where the Fair Trading is now.
1:03:18

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They moved up to there, They moved up to there,
1:03:21

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the Workers Club. the Workers Club.
1:03:23

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Um, you know,  Um, you know, 
1:03:25

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you could go on and on and on and on and on about Wollongong. you could go on and on and on and on and on about Wollongong.
1:03:30

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Um... [Claire] So it sounds like it was a good place to live in the '50s. [Ken] Well, because I was young, I mean I used to ride a push bike Um... [Claire] So it sounds like it was a good place to live in the '50s. [Ken] Well, because I was young, I mean I used to ride a push bike
1:03:39

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from 50 Keira Street to the Coniston, the Coniston school. [Claire] Right. That's a fair way. [Ken] During the War I used to ride a push bike and I used to get extra coupons because I used extra rubber and because I was tall I got extra coupons for clothing. from 50 Keira Street to the Coniston, the Coniston school. [Claire] Right. That's a fair way. [Ken] During the War I used to ride a push bike and I used to get extra coupons because I used extra rubber and because I was tall I got extra coupons for clothing.
1:04:01

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You know, and I mean, the Coniston school when they used to have pans underneath the toilets and when they used to flo-, overflow, You know, and I mean, the Coniston school when they used to have pans underneath the toilets and when they used to flo-, overflow,
1:04:10

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it used to run down to the lowlands. it used to run down to the lowlands.
1:04:15

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And we used to have a shanty town. A shanty town used to live there. They used to, and years ago petrol was in four gallon tins. And they used to - kerosene tins - And we used to have a shanty town. A shanty town used to live there. They used to, and years ago petrol was in four gallon tins. And they used to - kerosene tins -
1:04:26

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and they used to flatten them out, and nail them to saplings, and people lived and they used to flatten them out, and nail them to saplings, and people lived
1:04:35

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behind the Coniston school. behind the Coniston school.
1:04:38

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How long was that there? How long was that there?
1:04:41

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How long was that there? That was there for years. [Claire] Right. [Ken] The Bevans used to live there and they end up in the Housing Commission out at How long was that there? That was there for years. [Claire] Right. [Ken] The Bevans used to live there and they end up in the Housing Commission out at
1:04:50

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North Wollongong. Bevans. [Claire] Must have given him the idea to go into real estate. North Wollongong. Bevans. [Claire] Must have given him the idea to go into real estate.
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Maybe we should stop it there on that note, yeah, okay. Maybe we should stop it there on that note, yeah, okay.