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[Tom] Josie, ah, was born in Holland in 1934 in the town of Haarlem, and, um, came to Australia in 1950 and is currently, um, a teacher of Montessori at the Elonera Montessori School in Gwynneville. Um, welcome, Josie. [Josie] Thank you, Tom, and I'm glad to be here and to be interviewed by you. [Tom] So shall we begin with, um, some of your early life in, um, [Tom] Josie, ah, was born in Holland in 1934 in the town of Haarlem, and, um, came to Australia in 1950 and is currently, um, a teacher of Montessori at the Elonera Montessori School in Gwynneville. Um, welcome, Josie. [Josie] Thank you, Tom, and I'm glad to be here and to be interviewed by you. [Tom] So shall we begin with, um, some of your early life in, um,
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in, in Haarlem, what, Haarlem is, is a place, ah, in which part of Holland? [Josie] In the west, in the northwest of Holland. And the city is about 700 years old, and, um, it's a lovely, a lovely city right in the polders of Holland. in, in Haarlem, what, Haarlem is, is a place, ah, in which part of Holland? [Josie] In the west, in the northwest of Holland. And the city is about 700 years old, and, um, it's a lovely, a lovely city right in the polders of Holland.
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And you were the, um, the, the eldest of four children. [Josie] Yes. [Tom] Where they boys or girls? [Josie] Two boys and two girls. And you were the, um, the, the eldest of four children. [Josie] Yes. [Tom] Where they boys or girls? [Josie] Two boys and two girls.
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[Tom] What did your father do? [Josie] Um, my father was a school teacher and he worked at the, in, in the State system and later on he moved and worked in an office, in a State office. [Tom] What did your father do? [Josie] Um, my father was a school teacher and he worked at the, in, in the State system and later on he moved and worked in an office, in a State office.
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[Tom] And what did your mother do, did she work? [Josie] Yes, my mother was a nursing sister and she worked mainly at night. [Tom] And what did your mother do, did she work? [Josie] Yes, my mother was a nursing sister and she worked mainly at night.
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[Tom] Teaching runs in your family, so I believe? [Josie] Yes, yes. Yes, I'm the, ah, fifth generation of teachers. [Tom] Teaching runs in your family, so I believe? [Josie] Yes, yes. Yes, I'm the, ah, fifth generation of teachers.
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[Tom] And, ah, did you attend Montessori school when you were a child? [Josie] Yes. From the age of three until matriculation at the age of 18. [Tom] And all of the children in our family? [Josie] All the, all the members of my family. Yes, my parents believed in the Montessori method and, ah, we were all born to Montessori way and, um, brought up the Montessori way as well. [Tom] Later on, I, I might ask you to perhaps just explain a little bit about Montessori. [Josie] Yes. [Tom] So that our listeners can understand. [Josie] Right. [Tom] And, ah, did you attend Montessori school when you were a child? [Josie] Yes. From the age of three until matriculation at the age of 18. [Tom] And all of the children in our family? [Josie] All the, all the members of my family. Yes, my parents believed in the Montessori method and, ah, we were all born to Montessori way and, um, brought up the Montessori way as well. [Tom] Later on, I, I might ask you to perhaps just explain a little bit about Montessori. [Josie] Yes. [Tom] So that our listeners can understand. [Josie] Right.
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[Tom] So, ah, you born in 1934, that means that, ah, you lived in Holland during the occupation of the Germans. [Josie] Yes, and I can remember, still can remember quite a bit, but oh, it's a long time ago now. [Tom] So, ah, you born in 1934, that means that, ah, you lived in Holland during the occupation of the Germans. [Josie] Yes, and I can remember, still can remember quite a bit, but oh, it's a long time ago now.
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I remember feeling very hungry, um, feeling very cold and, um, my mother chopping wood and my father being in the underground and, um, hiding Jews, I remember feeling very hungry, um, feeling very cold and, um, my mother chopping wood and my father being in the underground and, um, hiding Jews,
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being involved in, in that sort of process. As children, you, you know a lot, even though you're not supposed to know it all. [Tom] So it was very hard to perhaps to, um, to not, um, chat about these things to everybody else? [Josie] Yes, children are, are quite good. I think sometimes we underestimate children. Um, we knew what to say and, and being involved in, in that sort of process. As children, you, you know a lot, even though you're not supposed to know it all. [Tom] So it was very hard to perhaps to, um, to not, um, chat about these things to everybody else? [Josie] Yes, children are, are quite good. I think sometimes we underestimate children. Um, we knew what to say and, and
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just, and also when to pretend that we didn't know it all. just, and also when to pretend that we didn't know it all.
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[Tom] And I understand some of your neighbours actually had, um, underground bunkers where people hid? [Josie] Yes, mm, yes, at the back, at the back of, um, our house, um, I believe there was a bunker, a sort of a tunnel. Haarlem has lots and lots of tunnels underneath the city and I think that's where a lot of people were hidden in the war time. And I know that's where my father used to meet, even though we have never actually talked about it. [Tom] And I understand some of your neighbours actually had, um, underground bunkers where people hid? [Josie] Yes, mm, yes, at the back, at the back of, um, our house, um, I believe there was a bunker, a sort of a tunnel. Haarlem has lots and lots of tunnels underneath the city and I think that's where a lot of people were hidden in the war time. And I know that's where my father used to meet, even though we have never actually talked about it.
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But we all knew, as children knew. [Tom] And, ah, so, so why are there lots of tunnels under Haarlem? But we all knew, as children knew. [Tom] And, ah, so, so why are there lots of tunnels under Haarlem?
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[Josie] During the Spanish war, um, there were lots and lots of tunnels built and yes, the Dutch are very good in, um, in trying to fight the enemy [Josie] During the Spanish war, um, there were lots and lots of tunnels built and yes, the Dutch are very good in, um, in trying to fight the enemy
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grounds [laughs]. [Tom] So were they, had you, have you ever been into any of those tunnels? [Josie] Yes, yes there were some tunnels that were, um, open to the public and especially between the old churches in the centre of, of Haarlem. That was really fun. grounds [laughs]. [Tom] So were they, had you, have you ever been into any of those tunnels? [Josie] Yes, yes there were some tunnels that were, um, open to the public and especially between the old churches in the centre of, of Haarlem. That was really fun.
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[Tom] Ah, and I understand your, your brother was known as 'the walking newspaper'? [Josie] Yes, somehow he, he used to know, as young as he was, when, um, the Germans were on the warpath and trying to, to round up all the Jews. And so somehow he, he knew and he used to warn people and there was a whole network of people who helped the Jews and, and knew [Tom] Ah, and I understand your, your brother was known as 'the walking newspaper'? [Josie] Yes, somehow he, he used to know, as young as he was, when, um, the Germans were on the warpath and trying to, to round up all the Jews. And so somehow he, he knew and he used to warn people and there was a whole network of people who helped the Jews and, and knew
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what to do. So I believe that he had saved quite a few Jewish families from [Tom] Your young brother? what to do. So I believe that he had saved quite a few Jewish families from [Tom] Your young brother?
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[Josie] Yes. [Tom] So he, ah, he warned you when your house was, um, searched? [Josie] No, no, I think we were - that was at night I think or early in the morning. But my father had fled over the fence in the tunnel I think and, um, and my mother was very calm and collected and managed to ward them off. And yeah but it was rather scary I remember. [Josie] Yes. [Tom] So he, ah, he warned you when your house was, um, searched? [Josie] No, no, I think we were - that was at night I think or early in the morning. But my father had fled over the fence in the tunnel I think and, um, and my mother was very calm and collected and managed to ward them off. And yeah but it was rather scary I remember.
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[Tom] Towards the end of the Second World War, you were what farmed out, the children were farmed out? [Josie] Yes, a lot of children were farmed out because 1944 was a very cold winter and there was very little to eat. So, um, a lot of children were invited by the farmers in the east of Holland to stay there. And so we, we were all very well received. And most farmers in the east of Holland had children from the west [Tom] Towards the end of the Second World War, you were what farmed out, the children were farmed out? [Josie] Yes, a lot of children were farmed out because 1944 was a very cold winter and there was very little to eat. So, um, a lot of children were invited by the farmers in the east of Holland to stay there. And so we, we were all very well received. And most farmers in the east of Holland had children from the west
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staying with them staying with them
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[Tom] What, what can you remember most about, ah, about the liberations? I think, what, the Canadians liberated you? [Josie] Yes, the Canadians used to come and we used to sell eggs on the side of the [laughs]  side of the road. And I remember they were, um, in a camp in the little village where the farm was. And, ah, we were all given chocolates. And I think a lot of Canadian soldiers had been away from home for a long time so, [Tom] What, what can you remember most about, ah, about the liberations? I think, what, the Canadians liberated you? [Josie] Yes, the Canadians used to come and we used to sell eggs on the side of the [laughs]  side of the road. And I remember they were, um, in a camp in the little village where the farm was. And, ah, we were all given chocolates. And I think a lot of Canadian soldiers had been away from home for a long time so,
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um, anyone who was a father um, anyone who was a father
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always wanted, wanted a hug from, from a child and, ah, we got lots of chocolates, lots of chocolates. And I remember the first bread that we ate, um, was from the Swedish Red Cross and it was just like cake. I've never, I don't think I've ever tasted anything as beautiful as that first bread that we had. always wanted, wanted a hug from, from a child and, ah, we got lots of chocolates, lots of chocolates. And I remember the first bread that we ate, um, was from the Swedish Red Cross and it was just like cake. I've never, I don't think I've ever tasted anything as beautiful as that first bread that we had.
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[Tom] So then when you finished high school, [Tom] So then when you finished high school,
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what did  you do? [Josie] Um, usually, um, girls from good, good homes did in those days, they went to finishing school. The very wealthy ones went to Switzerland or France or England and the not so wealthy ones, but still pretty wealthy in those days, they went to finishing schools in Holland and they learned what did  you do? [Josie] Um, usually, um, girls from good, good homes did in those days, they went to finishing school. The very wealthy ones went to Switzerland or France or England and the not so wealthy ones, but still pretty wealthy in those days, they went to finishing schools in Holland and they learned
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grace and courtesies and, um, how to how, ah, how to be a good hostess and how to be, well a presentable wife I suppose. And also learning office skills. So I learned shorthand in three languages and which is normal in Holland. Um, it's nothing, nothing very spectacular, but you just learned. [Tom] So you would have spoken English from a ..? grace and courtesies and, um, how to how, ah, how to be a good hostess and how to be, well a presentable wife I suppose. And also learning office skills. So I learned shorthand in three languages and which is normal in Holland. Um, it's nothing, nothing very spectacular, but you just learned. [Tom] So you would have spoken English from a ..?
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[Josie] German and French. And they were the three languages that nearly everyone in Holland learned when you went to high school. [Tom] And then, and you worked in a large bookstore? [Josie] Very large book store, yes, as the assistant to the, to the accountant and it was very interesting. And, um, [Josie] German and French. And they were the three languages that nearly everyone in Holland learned when you went to high school. [Tom] And then, and you worked in a large bookstore? [Josie] Very large book store, yes, as the assistant to the, to the accountant and it was very interesting. And, um,
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also sometimes went out, um, to meet business, um, associates of the, of the boss and, um, they used to meet in restaurants in Holland.  And I used to sort of look after the guests and that was fun too, yes. I have good memories. also sometimes went out, um, to meet business, um, associates of the, of the boss and, um, they used to meet in restaurants in Holland.  And I used to sort of look after the guests and that was fun too, yes. I have good memories.
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[Tom] And in your vacations you worked in the film industry? [Josie] Yes. 'Cause, um, Poly-, Polygoon is a film industry in, in Haarlem and, um, I used to be a sort of a Girl Friday there and that was also lots of fun. [Tom] Then in 1954, um, you and your first husband imm-, emigrated to Australia by ship? [Josie] Yes, by ship. [Tom] And in your vacations you worked in the film industry? [Josie] Yes. 'Cause, um, Poly-, Polygoon is a film industry in, in Haarlem and, um, I used to be a sort of a Girl Friday there and that was also lots of fun. [Tom] Then in 1954, um, you and your first husband imm-, emigrated to Australia by ship? [Josie] Yes, by ship.
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We went through the, through the Suez Canal and the Red Sea. It was very hot in the Red Sea I remember. And we landed in Aden and we stayed in Aden for a day and then we spent two weeks We went through the, through the Suez Canal and the Red Sea. It was very hot in the Red Sea I remember. And we landed in Aden and we stayed in Aden for a day and then we spent two weeks
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with just sea [laughs]. The, the boat and us and the sea - the Indian Ocean. And we landed after two weeks, um, in Fremantle. So we spent a, a total of a month from Holland to Australia. [Tom] I think Fremantle was a little bit of a shock for you, was it? with just sea [laughs]. The, the boat and us and the sea - the Indian Ocean. And we landed after two weeks, um, in Fremantle. So we spent a, a total of a month from Holland to Australia. [Tom] I think Fremantle was a little bit of a shock for you, was it?
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In what way? [Josie] [Laughs]. Well, we couldn't find anything familiar to eat. It had, ah, pies written somewhere and we didn't even know what pies were [laughs] and, um, we couldn't find coffee. They had coffee in a bottle here called ?chickory?, yes, and, um, we couldn't find anything that was familiar to us. But, ah, In what way? [Josie] [Laughs]. Well, we couldn't find anything familiar to eat. It had, ah, pies written somewhere and we didn't even know what pies were [laughs] and, um, we couldn't find coffee. They had coffee in a bottle here called ?chickory?, yes, and, um, we couldn't find anything that was familiar to us. But, ah,
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well, it, it was very interesting and it was really an adventure to us. [Tom] Um, I, I hear that the, ah, the beer was pretty terrible. [Josie] Yes, beer and no wine. We were used to drinking wine with our meals, um, being, coming from a cosmopolitan Europe. It was a bit of a shock [laughs] to just find sherry and which you drank with lemonade. We had never heard of that [laughs]. well, it, it was very interesting and it was really an adventure to us. [Tom] Um, I, I hear that the, ah, the beer was pretty terrible. [Josie] Yes, beer and no wine. We were used to drinking wine with our meals, um, being, coming from a cosmopolitan Europe. It was a bit of a shock [laughs] to just find sherry and which you drank with lemonade. We had never heard of that [laughs].
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Port and everybody used to get drunk on port and it was, and port is, was always as it is now, a Port and everybody used to get drunk on port and it was, and port is, was always as it is now, a
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very delicate drink that you had after dinner. And here people used to drink it from 5 o'clock onwards [laughs] very delicate drink that you had after dinner. And here people used to drink it from 5 o'clock onwards [laughs]
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most days. [Tom] So it's changed a little now so that you can get practically anything Dutch, is that right?[Josie] Oh yes, there's even a lovely Dutch, um, shop in Smithfield, and, ah, that's going back to Holland almost, it's just beautiful, you can buy anything you like. And in most, most, ah, even most supermarkets you can buy continental goods, which is lovely. But in those days, it, it was just, um, most days. [Tom] So it's changed a little now so that you can get practically anything Dutch, is that right?[Josie] Oh yes, there's even a lovely Dutch, um, shop in Smithfield, and, ah, that's going back to Holland almost, it's just beautiful, you can buy anything you like. And in most, most, ah, even most supermarkets you can buy continental goods, which is lovely. But in those days, it, it was just, um,
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just a treat to get something to eat that came from Holland. [Tom] So used to get what, food parcels? [Josie] Yes, food parcels from home. Our parents used to send us, um, all this lovely Dutch goodies that, um, we missed very much. I think that, that made us very homesick. And so in the beginning at least. [Tom] And then you, ah, and your husband, um, went to live at a place called Jarrahwood? [Josie] Yes to Jarrahwood which is about, um, just a treat to get something to eat that came from Holland. [Tom] So used to get what, food parcels? [Josie] Yes, food parcels from home. Our parents used to send us, um, all this lovely Dutch goodies that, um, we missed very much. I think that, that made us very homesick. And so in the beginning at least. [Tom] And then you, ah, and your husband, um, went to live at a place called Jarrahwood? [Josie] Yes to Jarrahwood which is about, um,
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30 miles, about 60 kilo-, kilometres from Busselton right in the middle of the Jarrah country with huge trees. And, um, it looked as if, to us it looked as if, um, someone had chopped a, a circle of trees and had planted a timber mill there and, ah, all the Jarrah was cut into, cut into, um, strips and 30 miles, about 60 kilo-, kilometres from Busselton right in the middle of the Jarrah country with huge trees. And, um, it looked as if, to us it looked as if, um, someone had chopped a, a circle of trees and had planted a timber mill there and, ah, all the Jarrah was cut into, cut into, um, strips and
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it was interesting. We had no electricity, so we had those Tilley lamps, so we were, yeah, that was a luxury when we bought our Tilley lamp. We used to have kerosene lamps before, but the Tilley Lamp gave lots of light. And, ah, we used to, if I was making a cup of tea or coffee in the kitchen, I had to take the Tilley lamp with me and everyone else was in the dark until I came it was interesting. We had no electricity, so we had those Tilley lamps, so we were, yeah, that was a luxury when we bought our Tilley lamp. We used to have kerosene lamps before, but the Tilley Lamp gave lots of light. And, ah, we used to, if I was making a cup of tea or coffee in the kitchen, I had to take the Tilley lamp with me and everyone else was in the dark until I came
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back again with the coffee and the Tilley lamp. back again with the coffee and the Tilley lamp.
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[Tom] First child, ah, Vicki was born during that time? [Josie] Yes, she was born in, um, in Busselton. [Tom] And you had what, get driven from the timber mill where you were living to Busselton? [Josie] Yes, yes. And if I used to go and visit the clinic sister, um, we, I had to catch the, I think the bus left at 6 o'clock in the morning and it came back again at 5 o'clock in the evening and that was the only bus service that went [Tom] First child, ah, Vicki was born during that time? [Josie] Yes, she was born in, um, in Busselton. [Tom] And you had what, get driven from the timber mill where you were living to Busselton? [Josie] Yes, yes. And if I used to go and visit the clinic sister, um, we, I had to catch the, I think the bus left at 6 o'clock in the morning and it came back again at 5 o'clock in the evening and that was the only bus service that went
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to Busselton and back again in those days. to Busselton and back again in those days.
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[Tom] Um, and then not long after I understand, you travelled to, ah, to Wollongong with the family and, ah, and your second daughter Peggy was born. Which, which year was Peggy born? [Josie] Ah, so Peggy was born in 1962 in Wollongong Hospital. [Tom] Um, and then not long after I understand, you travelled to, ah, to Wollongong with the family and, ah, and your second daughter Peggy was born. Which, which year was Peggy born? [Josie] Ah, so Peggy was born in 1962 in Wollongong Hospital.
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[Tom] And you, you come across because, ah, there were strikes in WA. [Josie] Yes not much work, very uncertain so we decided to go to the magical Eastern states where the gold was on the street, [Tom] And you, you come across because, ah, there were strikes in WA. [Josie] Yes not much work, very uncertain so we decided to go to the magical Eastern states where the gold was on the street,
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and we settled in Wollongong. [Tom] And, ah, not long after that you ended up being a single mother with two children to look after. [Josie] Yes, yes. and we settled in Wollongong. [Tom] And, ah, not long after that you ended up being a single mother with two children to look after. [Josie] Yes, yes.
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[Tom] How was that back in those things? [Josie] Well, I was lucky because social services had just been introduced to single mothers, so I was, um, not entirely destitute. And, um, later on I applied for a, um, a special grant to go to teachers college and that was funded by the social services for, um, for single mothers that was called, [Tom] How was that back in those things? [Josie] Well, I was lucky because social services had just been introduced to single mothers, so I was, um, not entirely destitute. And, um, later on I applied for a, um, a special grant to go to teachers college and that was funded by the social services for, um, for single mothers that was called,
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I think they were called, um, 'Women on the pension'. [Tom] Oh yeah. [Josie] I think [laughs]. [Tom] So you, so you had one 14 year old and one 7 year old at that time? [Josie] Yes, yes, yes. I think they were called, um, 'Women on the pension'. [Tom] Oh yeah. [Josie] I think [laughs]. [Tom] So you, so you had one 14 year old and one 7 year old at that time? [Josie] Yes, yes, yes.
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[Tom] Um, how, how did you end up going to, ah, teachers college? [Josie] Oh, so I decided to do a refresher course at Williams Business College and there was a lovely lady there and I really owe a lot to her. [Tom] Um, how, how did you end up going to, ah, teachers college? [Josie] Oh, so I decided to do a refresher course at Williams Business College and there was a lovely lady there and I really owe a lot to her.
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Her name is Mrs Nagy and she encouraged me to go further and go to teachers college. She actually encouraged me so much that she rang up for an interview. And, um, Her name is Mrs Nagy and she encouraged me to go further and go to teachers college. She actually encouraged me so much that she rang up for an interview. And, um,
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I finished teachers college and that was very enjoyable. I really enjoyed it and I had two wonderful supporting and very supportive daughters who helped me a lot to go through a very difficult time when you are studying and, um, I finished teachers college and that was very enjoyable. I really enjoyed it and I had two wonderful supporting and very supportive daughters who helped me a lot to go through a very difficult time when you are studying and, um,
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yes, they were very supportive. It's, it's because of them that I finished college. [Tom] Right. So you, um, so you finished college and went to, ah, teach at, ah, Wollongong primary school? [Josie] Wollongong primary school for a year and then I taught at Berkeley primary school for a couple of years and, um, taught for, oh, many years, I think almost 17 years I think at Lake Heights. yes, they were very supportive. It's, it's because of them that I finished college. [Tom] Right. So you, um, so you finished college and went to, ah, teach at, ah, Wollongong primary school? [Josie] Wollongong primary school for a year and then I taught at Berkeley primary school for a couple of years and, um, taught for, oh, many years, I think almost 17 years I think at Lake Heights.
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[Tom] Before you became a Montessori teacher? [Josie] Before I, yes, yes. [Tom] Would you like to tell some of our listeners a little bit about Montessori perhaps? [Josie] Yes. Um, so Maria Montessori was a doctor and she, after her studies, she worked with, um, so-called mentally retarded children and she found out that when they were stimulated with, ah, certain toys, that, um, [Tom] Before you became a Montessori teacher? [Josie] Before I, yes, yes. [Tom] Would you like to tell some of our listeners a little bit about Montessori perhaps? [Josie] Yes. Um, so Maria Montessori was a doctor and she, after her studies, she worked with, um, so-called mentally retarded children and she found out that when they were stimulated with, ah, certain toys, that, um,
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they weren't as mentally retarded as everyone thought. So, um, she thought, well, if that is, if that is the case and if those children are learning so much, then perhaps normal, so-called normal children, can also learn that way. So she designed, um, material, special material, that, um, were keys to learning. And so Montessori schools were set up they weren't as mentally retarded as everyone thought. So, um, she thought, well, if that is, if that is the case and if those children are learning so much, then perhaps normal, so-called normal children, can also learn that way. So she designed, um, material, special material, that, um, were keys to learning. And so Montessori schools were set up
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with those materials. And, um, then she found out really by observing, the children how they learned. So it's, it's purely what we do at school we are facilitators. with those materials. And, um, then she found out really by observing, the children how they learned. So it's, it's purely what we do at school we are facilitators.
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So helping the children to learn to remove those obstacles to learning. But we believe that children learn and that they have the potential and that we are there to just help them along to become independent learners. And Montessori took on - the Montessori method just became so popular that, ah, many schools were set up by interested parents mostly So helping the children to learn to remove those obstacles to learning. But we believe that children learn and that they have the potential and that we are there to just help them along to become independent learners. And Montessori took on - the Montessori method just became so popular that, ah, many schools were set up by interested parents mostly
18:36

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as is still the case these days, that um [Tom] So is that how you, um, became involved in Wollongong? [Josie] Yes, yes. I met a wonderful lady through an advertisement. Her name is Kathy Box. Hello, Kathy! And, um, and she wanted a Montessori education for her children. And she was brave enough to call for other interested parents. So about five people turned up at the Women's Centre in Stewart Street as is still the case these days, that um [Tom] So is that how you, um, became involved in Wollongong? [Josie] Yes, yes. I met a wonderful lady through an advertisement. Her name is Kathy Box. Hello, Kathy! And, um, and she wanted a Montessori education for her children. And she was brave enough to call for other interested parents. So about five people turned up at the Women's Centre in Stewart Street
19:06

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in those days. And, um, we, we talked about how to set up a school and they did a lot of fund raising and eventually a school was set up in Berkeley, which is about, oh, I think it's about 12 years old now. in those days. And, um, we, we talked about how to set up a school and they did a lot of fund raising and eventually a school was set up in Berkeley, which is about, oh, I think it's about 12 years old now.
19:25

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So, ah, and that was in 1973. [Tom] So you were carrying on the tradition your parents had been, your father was a teacher and you're fifth generation teacher. [Josie] Yes. So, ah, and that was in 1973. [Tom] So you were carrying on the tradition your parents had been, your father was a teacher and you're fifth generation teacher. [Josie] Yes.
19:36

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Yes. Yes.
19:39

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[Tom] So then how did you meet Alfred, um, your, your second husband? [Josie] Yes. So we, um, we belong to the same denomination, and he, um, was widowed, so, um, we just met, [Tom] So then how did you meet Alfred, um, your, your second husband? [Josie] Yes. So we, um, we belong to the same denomination, and he, um, was widowed, so, um, we just met,
19:55

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clicked and married [laughs]. So he has four children and I have two so we became a blended family. And it took quite some time for everyone to get used to each other and but, um, I think we are now a fairly, fairly harmonious family. [Tom] And I understand you both sports people, you do rollerblading? clicked and married [laughs]. So he has four children and I have two so we became a blended family. And it took quite some time for everyone to get used to each other and but, um, I think we are now a fairly, fairly harmonious family. [Tom] And I understand you both sports people, you do rollerblading?
20:21

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[Josie] Oh yes. [Josie] Oh yes.
20:24

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Yes [laughs] yes. Yes we like rollerblading. [Tom] So, ah, we can see you here, what, around the Lake? Yes [laughs] yes. Yes we like rollerblading. [Tom] So, ah, we can see you here, what, around the Lake?
20:33

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[Josie] Yes, some people are quite astounded to see these older people on rollerblades [laughs]. [Tom] Have you ever come off? [Josie] Yes once. [Josie] Yes, some people are quite astounded to see these older people on rollerblades [laughs]. [Tom] Have you ever come off? [Josie] Yes once.
20:44

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Yes, but it's fun. I can highly recommend it. It's good fun. Yes, but it's fun. I can highly recommend it. It's good fun.
20:51

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[Tom] Well Josie, um, ah, it's been a real pleasure speaking with you, um, we, we could probably sit and talk all night, but it's getting a little dark so perhaps we, we better stop. Um, so, so thanks it's been a real pleasure speaking with you. [Josie] Thank you Tom for inviting me to speak. Thank you. [Tom] Well Josie, um, ah, it's been a real pleasure speaking with you, um, we, we could probably sit and talk all night, but it's getting a little dark so perhaps we, we better stop. Um, so, so thanks it's been a real pleasure speaking with you. [Josie] Thank you Tom for inviting me to speak. Thank you.