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Hello again and welcome to In My Day, My guest today is ah, Bill Kierse ah, from Wollongong. Ah, Bill was born in 1936 and ,um, amongst other things in his life he was a, a Boilermaker and, um, when he was around about 29, he, he joined the police force. So Bill's been talking with me today about his early life in Western Australia in Kalgoorlie Hello again and welcome to In My Day, My guest today is ah, Bill Kierse ah, from Wollongong. Ah, Bill was born in 1936 and ,um, amongst other things in his life he was a, a Boilermaker and, um, when he was around about 29, he, he joined the police force. So Bill's been talking with me today about his early life in Western Australia in Kalgoorlie
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and, um, other parts of Australia and New Zealand when he was a boilermaker and about some of his experiences in the police force. So welcome Bill, and where do you think we should begin? and, um, other parts of Australia and New Zealand when he was a boilermaker and about some of his experiences in the police force. So welcome Bill, and where do you think we should begin?
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[Bill] At the beginning. [Tom] Okay, so you were born in, um, Kalgoorlie and your father worked on the gold mines [Bill] Yes. [Bill] At the beginning. [Tom] Okay, so you were born in, um, Kalgoorlie and your father worked on the gold mines [Bill] Yes.
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And, ah, his parents worked on the gold mines before him, or..? And, ah, his parents worked on the gold mines before him, or..?
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Father had been a farmer in Ballarat. Father had been a farmer in Ballarat.
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[Tom] So, um, er, back in those days there were things like the Coolgardie safe and things like that to keep your meat, er, cold? [Bill] Yes. [Tom] So, um, er, back in those days there were things like the Coolgardie safe and things like that to keep your meat, er, cold? [Bill] Yes.
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Only primitive appliances. [Tom] Yeah. So how did that work? Only primitive appliances. [Tom] Yeah. So how did that work?
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Mostly a framework Mostly a framework
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with a metal tank on top and canvas, or hessian, surrounding and little bits of cloth over the side and the water dripped down, and the breeze blowing through the water kept inside of it cool. with a metal tank on top and canvas, or hessian, surrounding and little bits of cloth over the side and the water dripped down, and the breeze blowing through the water kept inside of it cool.
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So it was about the only way, I guess, there was there no ice around in those days? So it was about the only way, I guess, there was there no ice around in those days?
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I do remember the Iceman being around, but, ah, I do remember the Iceman being around, but, ah,
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We didn't have an ice chest. Ah, we relied on the, ah, We didn't have an ice chest. Ah, we relied on the, ah,
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Coolgardie safe. [Tom] So, ah, when you were, ah, 9-1/2 your, your Dad died, um, from dust from the mines. [Bill] Yes. [Tom] And you moved to, ah, Coolgardie safe. [Tom] So, ah, when you were, ah, 9-1/2 your, your Dad died, um, from dust from the mines. [Bill] Yes. [Tom] And you moved to, ah,
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ah, a place called Boulder, is it? [Bill] Boulder, yes. [Tom] Tell me something about Boulder, I've never heard of Boulder before. [Bill] Well Boulder is, ah, the twin city of Kalgoorlie. ah, a place called Boulder, is it? [Bill] Boulder, yes. [Tom] Tell me something about Boulder, I've never heard of Boulder before. [Bill] Well Boulder is, ah, the twin city of Kalgoorlie.
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Very similar to, ah, what Wollongong and Fairy Meadow would be like, ah, side by side. And there used to be a lot of rivalry in the old days, about this, ah, much the same as it is, ah, between any two suburbs, different suburbs. Very similar to, ah, what Wollongong and Fairy Meadow would be like, ah, side by side. And there used to be a lot of rivalry in the old days, about this, ah, much the same as it is, ah, between any two suburbs, different suburbs.
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But Boulder came about because it was much closer to the mines in the early days and it was easier for me to walk to work. But Boulder came about because it was much closer to the mines in the early days and it was easier for me to walk to work.
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And that's how it came to be. [Tom] And, um, I guess um, your Mum didn't want you to go into the mines. Is, is that right, or..? [Bill] Yes, she And that's how it came to be. [Tom] And, um, I guess um, your Mum didn't want you to go into the mines. Is, is that right, or..? [Bill] Yes, she
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actively discouraged that, and ah, you couldn't go until you were 18 anyway, because of the, the law of the land, but actively discouraged that, and ah, you couldn't go until you were 18 anyway, because of the, the law of the land, but
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she had, ah, she didn't want us to go the way my father went. [Tom] No. So, so, so what did you do then, what did you decide to do? she had, ah, she didn't want us to go the way my father went. [Tom] No. So, so, so what did you do then, what did you decide to do?
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[Bill] Just left school. I, I worked in a grocer's shop for about 12 months and, um, then a, a glaziers, then I worked in a, a motor garage then, then I went down to Perth and become an apprentice Boilermaker. [Tom] Oh right, on, on the railways? [Bill] On the railways, yes. [Tom] Oh, okay. [Bill] Just left school. I, I worked in a grocer's shop for about 12 months and, um, then a, a glaziers, then I worked in a, a motor garage then, then I went down to Perth and become an apprentice Boilermaker. [Tom] Oh right, on, on the railways? [Bill] On the railways, yes. [Tom] Oh, okay.
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You told me that, ah, that you used to play around the railways, like I did when I was a child and, ah, there was ah, an incident where, where you used to push the turntable around. Would you like to tell me about that? [Bill] Yes, this was in Coolgardie and, ah, just outside the station had this big device in, in a circular hole to turn the locomotives around. Put the locomotor on and push it around. You told me that, ah, that you used to play around the railways, like I did when I was a child and, ah, there was ah, an incident where, where you used to push the turntable around. Would you like to tell me about that? [Bill] Yes, this was in Coolgardie and, ah, just outside the station had this big device in, in a circular hole to turn the locomotives around. Put the locomotor on and push it around.
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Ah, our Sunday pastime Ah, our Sunday pastime
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we'd get on either side of it and push it around, get it spinning and jump on and ride it till it finished and start it up again. So one day there was no room for me, so I hopped on the inside of it, sort of ? resistence and, ah, we'd get on either side of it and push it around, get it spinning and jump on and ride it till it finished and start it up again. So one day there was no room for me, so I hopped on the inside of it, sort of ? resistence and, ah,
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well I never had an understanding of mechanics, I got on the outside or the extremity of it, but this is where it was travelling the fastest and I nearly got rolled over, so I had to work my way into the inside and sit down till it stopped spinning. [Tom] So it was going pretty fast by then. well I never had an understanding of mechanics, I got on the outside or the extremity of it, but this is where it was travelling the fastest and I nearly got rolled over, so I had to work my way into the inside and sit down till it stopped spinning. [Tom] So it was going pretty fast by then.
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Yeah, we do these things when we're younger I think, without any regard for our safety. Yeah, we do these things when we're younger I think, without any regard for our safety.
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And, ah, that was, er, before, er, the Second World War, and ah, there were two, two trains going up through Coolgardie. [Bill] Yes, ah, a lot of troop trains passing from the East to the West and vice versa came through Coolgardie. And we used to go and meet them on a Sunday or Saturday. And some of the kids used to go and buy the pies for the soldiers down the street, that sort of thing. [Tom] And they, they were so long sometimes they had difficulty getting up the hill. And, ah, that was, er, before, er, the Second World War, and ah, there were two, two trains going up through Coolgardie. [Bill] Yes, ah, a lot of troop trains passing from the East to the West and vice versa came through Coolgardie. And we used to go and meet them on a Sunday or Saturday. And some of the kids used to go and buy the pies for the soldiers down the street, that sort of thing. [Tom] And they, they were so long sometimes they had difficulty getting up the hill.
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[Bill] Getting up the, yes they had to, ah, head back up the incline and have another go at it sometimes. [Tom] So they were running back a couple of miles and then start again. [Bill] Start again, yes. [Bill] Getting up the, yes they had to, ah, head back up the incline and have another go at it sometimes. [Tom] So they were running back a couple of miles and then start again. [Bill] Start again, yes.
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And, um, And, um,
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Then, so when you went to become an apprentice, you, ah, you moved down to Perth. Er, had you been to Perth before? Then, so when you went to become an apprentice, you, ah, you moved down to Perth. Er, had you been to Perth before?
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Towards the end of the war at the time my father died we'd been away on a holiday camp with the Country Women's Association at Fremantle, and, ah, that's the only time I'd been, been down the city. Towards the end of the war at the time my father died we'd been away on a holiday camp with the Country Women's Association at Fremantle, and, ah, that's the only time I'd been, been down the city.
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I mean where did you live when you went as an apprentice in Perth? I mean where did you live when you went as an apprentice in Perth?
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I worked in the railways at Midland Junction, the workshops there, which just recently closed. I worked in the railways at Midland Junction, the workshops there, which just recently closed.
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I live in, ah, the Midland Coffee Palace, I live in, ah, the Midland Coffee Palace,
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a non licensed hotel, boarding house. a non licensed hotel, boarding house.
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[Tom] So that was from the Temperance Society days. [Bill] Yes, I believe that, that's what they went back to, yes. [Tom] So that was from the Temperance Society days. [Bill] Yes, I believe that, that's what they went back to, yes.
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[Tom] So it took, ah, what, five years to become, or was it, that the apprenticeship time or..? [Bill] Yes, the apprenticeship was five years in those days. [Tom] And you ended up becoming a qualified boilermaker. [Bill] Qualified boilermaker. [Tom] So it took, ah, what, five years to become, or was it, that the apprenticeship time or..? [Bill] Yes, the apprenticeship was five years in those days. [Tom] And you ended up becoming a qualified boilermaker. [Bill] Qualified boilermaker.
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[Tom] You were indentured to the railways as a result of that, or..? [Bill] Yes. It was a, quite a formal process, [Tom] You were indentured to the railways as a result of that, or..? [Bill] Yes. It was a, quite a formal process,
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to sign-, sign contracts and, ah... to sign-, sign contracts and, ah...
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[Tom] And how long would they, um, employ you for after you became, ah, qualified? [Bill] Well depending on the, their, need for labour, some trades they, [Tom] And how long would they, um, employ you for after you became, ah, qualified? [Bill] Well depending on the, their, need for labour, some trades they,
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they kept them on, and some trades they automatically, ah, let them go. The, ah, they kept them on, and some trades they automatically, ah, let them go. The, ah,
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there wasn't a great deal of work in Western Australia at that time, besides, ah, if you had a job, you held onto it. there wasn't a great deal of work in Western Australia at that time, besides, ah, if you had a job, you held onto it.
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And, um, you, ah, you were a young man starting to earn a little bit of money, and, ah, did you, how did you get about in those days? And, um, you, ah, you were a young man starting to earn a little bit of money, and, ah, did you, how did you get about in those days?
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[Bill] I ended up, ah, buying myself a motorcycle. [Tom] Oh? [Bill] I ended up, ah, buying myself a motorcycle. [Tom] Oh?
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So what, what sort of bike was that? [Bill] That was an, an Ariel, a 500cc Ariel. [Tom] So it was different, ah, in those days, driving around in the bush, I suppose on a bike. You didn't have to have a helmet for a start, I suppose. [Bill] No, that's, that's true, we didn't have helmets, ah, So what, what sort of bike was that? [Bill] That was an, an Ariel, a 500cc Ariel. [Tom] So it was different, ah, in those days, driving around in the bush, I suppose on a bike. You didn't have to have a helmet for a start, I suppose. [Bill] No, that's, that's true, we didn't have helmets, ah,
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Helmets were, police, Helmets were, police,
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something of that sort, yeah. [Tom] And, and, ah, would you have to carry extra fuel, or could you get from A to B on the bike without worrying about petrol? something of that sort, yeah. [Tom] And, and, ah, would you have to carry extra fuel, or could you get from A to B on the bike without worrying about petrol?
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No, we didn't need to carry extra, extra petrol there, wherever I went, there was always a, a petrol supply within range. [Tom] So you were, um, so you finished your apprenticeship, ah, towards the end of the 1940s. No, we didn't need to carry extra, extra petrol there, wherever I went, there was always a, a petrol supply within range. [Tom] So you were, um, so you finished your apprenticeship, ah, towards the end of the 1940s.
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19-, 1958. 19-, 1958.
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Because I started in '52, so... [Tom] Right, okay, yeah. And um, and you did some National Service, ah, for a short while in the early '50s. [Bill] Yes, ah, in Because I started in '52, so... [Tom] Right, okay, yeah. And um, and you did some National Service, ah, for a short while in the early '50s. [Bill] Yes, ah, in
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1956 or thereabouts 1956 or thereabouts
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for three months straight then two fortnightly camps the next two years, plus some weekend, ah, bivouacs.  [Tom] Right. Did you think you would end up in the police force back then, or, or did you have any ideas about that? [Bill] Not at, not at that stage. I had, the thought had crossed my mind from time to time, but, ah, for three months straight then two fortnightly camps the next two years, plus some weekend, ah, bivouacs.  [Tom] Right. Did you think you would end up in the police force back then, or, or did you have any ideas about that? [Bill] Not at, not at that stage. I had, the thought had crossed my mind from time to time, but, ah,
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the other more the other more
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plans to travel and plans to travel and
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so I put that on the back burner. [Tom] All right, so where, where, where were you going to travel to? so I put that on the back burner. [Tom] All right, so where, where, where were you going to travel to?
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[Bill] Intended to go around the world and ah, [Tom] Oh really? So, so, ah, did you, did you set off on that journey or, or what? [Bill] Yes. About 12 months after I finished my apprenticeship, a lot of our chaps were leaving and going to New Zealand [Bill] Intended to go around the world and ah, [Tom] Oh really? So, so, ah, did you, did you set off on that journey or, or what? [Bill] Yes. About 12 months after I finished my apprenticeship, a lot of our chaps were leaving and going to New Zealand
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or South Australia, and, there or South Australia, and, there
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rumoured to be, ah, pots of money to be made in those places in the trades. So, I followed on and, ah, but I never struck the, struck the jackpot. [Tom] Yeah. So how did you, ah, you, you travelled to which place in New Zealand? [Bill] I went to Wellington first. [Tom] Ah ha. rumoured to be, ah, pots of money to be made in those places in the trades. So, I followed on and, ah, but I never struck the, struck the jackpot. [Tom] Yeah. So how did you, ah, you, you travelled to which place in New Zealand? [Bill] I went to Wellington first. [Tom] Ah ha.
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On the old ?monolight? Took about four days to get there. On the old ?monolight? Took about four days to get there.
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Very much so. Very much so.
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[Tom] Yeah, well I, I've never been on one of those sea voyages, but, ah, they tell me that, ah, the crossing is, ah, is pretty rough between Australia and New Zealand. [Bill] Well I was put on, various experiences there. I, I was in a cabin with a, a seaman who was here on duty or some such, and he was traveling back to New Zealand, and I was bemoaning my fate, and I said, "Oh, it's rough today." And he sort of cast and eye up, [Tom] Yeah, well I, I've never been on one of those sea voyages, but, ah, they tell me that, ah, the crossing is, ah, is pretty rough between Australia and New Zealand. [Bill] Well I was put on, various experiences there. I, I was in a cabin with a, a seaman who was here on duty or some such, and he was traveling back to New Zealand, and I was bemoaning my fate, and I said, "Oh, it's rough today." And he sort of cast and eye up,
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and he said. "Bit of a swell." [Tom] [laughs]. and he said. "Bit of a swell." [Tom] [laughs].
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And I understand that you weren't intending to go to Wellington in the first place anyway. [Bill] No. I thought I was going to Auckland, but being such an inexperienced traveller, ah, And I understand that you weren't intending to go to Wellington in the first place anyway. [Bill] No. I thought I was going to Auckland, but being such an inexperienced traveller, ah,
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ended up we just jumped on the ship and assumed that it was just going to, going to Auckland, but ended up we just jumped on the ship and assumed that it was just going to, going to Auckland, but
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it alternated between Auckland and Wellington different trips so it alternated between Auckland and Wellington different trips so
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that's how we came to be in Wellington. [Tom] So, as a boilermaker in Australia you would have worked on, on the steam engines because they were that's how we came to be in Wellington. [Tom] So, as a boilermaker in Australia you would have worked on, on the steam engines because they were
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that, that's what they used to use in those days, is that right? [Bill] Yeah, that's true. [Tom] Mm. And, and then did you end up working on steam engines when you went to Wellington in New Zealand? that, that's what they used to use in those days, is that right? [Bill] Yeah, that's true. [Tom] Mm. And, and then did you end up working on steam engines when you went to Wellington in New Zealand?
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No, I, um, no I worked on structural work, on building, um, oil installations. No, I, um, no I worked on structural work, on building, um, oil installations.
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 [Tom] Of course. So this was quite an adventure for, for a young man. What were you 24, 25..?  [Bill] About 20, about 23, yes. [Tom] Right. Ah, going, going to this new country, did you think it was like Australia or, or were you surprised when you got there?  [Tom] Of course. So this was quite an adventure for, for a young man. What were you 24, 25..?  [Bill] About 20, about 23, yes. [Tom] Right. Ah, going, going to this new country, did you think it was like Australia or, or were you surprised when you got there?
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Well, I was a bit, a bit disappointed. I'd been led to believe we were blood brothers, but, ah, I found out we weren't always welcome with open arms. Well, I was a bit, a bit disappointed. I'd been led to believe we were blood brothers, but, ah, I found out we weren't always welcome with open arms.
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[Tom] And, ah, they, they, they drink, or they drank a different sort of beer over there. [Bill] Yes, very different. Very flat. [Tom] You travelled with a, with a Pommie bloke, I think you said, did you? [Bill] Yes. I met a, I met a chap on the boat who was, had some, spent a few years in New Zealand [Tom] And, ah, they, they, they drink, or they drank a different sort of beer over there. [Bill] Yes, very different. Very flat. [Tom] You travelled with a, with a Pommie bloke, I think you said, did you? [Bill] Yes. I met a, I met a chap on the boat who was, had some, spent a few years in New Zealand
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and was returning to England and got home sick for New Zealand when he got as far as Sydney, so... [Tom] I see. And, er, well he had a bit of a liking for this flat beer that they drank in Wellington. [Bill] Yes, he was partial to it but, ah, it took some getting used to. and was returning to England and got home sick for New Zealand when he got as far as Sydney, so... [Tom] I see. And, er, well he had a bit of a liking for this flat beer that they drank in Wellington. [Bill] Yes, he was partial to it but, ah, it took some getting used to.
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You told me that, er, you, you went into a pub early on and, er, and the barman, um, you weren't satisfied with what the barman had, ah, placed there. Would you like to tell me that story? You told me that, er, you, you went into a pub early on and, er, and the barman, um, you weren't satisfied with what the barman had, ah, placed there. Would you like to tell me that story?
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Yes, we, we called in and, um, ordered some beers, sort of finding our legs Yes, we, we called in and, um, ordered some beers, sort of finding our legs
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and before he'd turned around from giving us the change, the beer had gone flat. I complained about this, and he said, "There's nothing wrong with it." And my mate John said to drink it if there's nothing wrong with it. And this he proceeded to do in two fell swoops. and before he'd turned around from giving us the change, the beer had gone flat. I complained about this, and he said, "There's nothing wrong with it." And my mate John said to drink it if there's nothing wrong with it. And this he proceeded to do in two fell swoops.
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[Tom] And yeah okay. So in those days, ah, when you went out on a Saturday night after you'd been, um, working all week, you tended to dress up, is that right, you put a collar and tie on? [Bill] Yes, that was the ah, ?? those days. [Tom] Yeah, seems to have changed a little bit now, doesn't it? [Bill] Yes it's the other way, it's other extreme now. Ah, if you dress up, ah... [Tom] And yeah okay. So in those days, ah, when you went out on a Saturday night after you'd been, um, working all week, you tended to dress up, is that right, you put a collar and tie on? [Bill] Yes, that was the ah, ?? those days. [Tom] Yeah, seems to have changed a little bit now, doesn't it? [Bill] Yes it's the other way, it's other extreme now. Ah, if you dress up, ah...
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[Tom] So you, you, so you set out to travel, ah, around the world and this was going to be your first leg where you made some money and... [Bill] Yes. [Tom] Did that happened or..? [Bill] No, definitely didn't. [Tom] So you, you, so you set out to travel, ah, around the world and this was going to be your first leg where you made some money and... [Bill] Yes. [Tom] Did that happened or..? [Bill] No, definitely didn't.
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There was more work than money. It wasn't a great rate of pay and just sufficient to, ah, There was more work than money. It wasn't a great rate of pay and just sufficient to, ah,
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get from um, one end of the week to the next.[Tom] and then you, so you, you decided to come back to Australia and, and look for work as a boilermaker in Australia? [Bill] Yes, to um, get my bankroll. [Tom] [laughs] Okay. And, and is that how you ended up in Wollongong? [Bill] Yes I, I came back to Sydney, the first time I flew ... get from um, one end of the week to the next.[Tom] and then you, so you, you decided to come back to Australia and, and look for work as a boilermaker in Australia? [Bill] Yes, to um, get my bankroll. [Tom] [laughs] Okay. And, and is that how you ended up in Wollongong? [Bill] Yes I, I came back to Sydney, the first time I flew ...
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going to face the seasickness again, so I decided to, ah, fly. going to face the seasickness again, so I decided to, ah, fly.
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And I, I got on the plane at Auckland and, um, and there was a couple of very experienced flyers sitting ahead of me and complaining about the an-, the antiquity of the plane, which I thought was wonderful. Anyway, it started off and And I, I got on the plane at Auckland and, um, and there was a couple of very experienced flyers sitting ahead of me and complaining about the an-, the antiquity of the plane, which I thought was wonderful. Anyway, it started off and
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after all, he got up full revs and let go. Then obviously there was braking and the pilot said. "Sorry folks, there's a malfunction." [Tom] Oh no. [Bill] "We'll have to return." And this they did. after all, he got up full revs and let go. Then obviously there was braking and the pilot said. "Sorry folks, there's a malfunction." [Tom] Oh no. [Bill] "We'll have to return." And this they did.
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To hell with flying. So I rushed out the front of the airport, there wasn't a taxi to be seen. The next flight would've been some hours away. To hell with flying. So I rushed out the front of the airport, there wasn't a taxi to be seen. The next flight would've been some hours away.
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I was forced to fly. [Tom] Okay. [Bill] So, so they fixed up the malfunction, or got another plane or something. I was forced to fly. [Tom] Okay. [Bill] So, so they fixed up the malfunction, or got another plane or something.
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[Tom] Yeah, but you're still here today, so, um... [Bill] Yes. [Tom] Yeah, but you're still here today, so, um... [Bill] Yes.
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For the best, yeah. [Tom] And... [Bill] DC6... [Tom] Oh was it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, flying was a bit different in those days to what it is now. [Bill] It For the best, yeah. [Tom] And... [Bill] DC6... [Tom] Oh was it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, flying was a bit different in those days to what it is now. [Bill] It
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was a super duper plane of the times in the, a Lockheed Electra and that's, all goes, possibly gone by the board didn't it? [Tom] Yeah. So, you needed to find work and, um, what, you came to look for work in Wollongong at the steelworks? [Bill] Yeah. Yeah, I came down to the steelworks. I couldn't get a, was a super duper plane of the times in the, a Lockheed Electra and that's, all goes, possibly gone by the board didn't it? [Tom] Yeah. So, you needed to find work and, um, what, you came to look for work in Wollongong at the steelworks? [Bill] Yeah. Yeah, I came down to the steelworks. I couldn't get a,
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couldn't get fixed up in Sydney. I applied for several jobs in several areas, but apparently they were doing a lot of advertising but not much hiring. couldn't get fixed up in Sydney. I applied for several jobs in several areas, but apparently they were doing a lot of advertising but not much hiring.
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[Tom] Yeah. [Bill] And, ah, so I came to the steelworks and moved into Karingal hostel. [Tom] Yeah. So were there many other people, ah, in there, similar to you that, ah, who sort of come from other parts of Australia and the world? [Bill] Yes, it was very cosmopolitan the hostel. [Tom] Yeah. [Bill] And, ah, so I came to the steelworks and moved into Karingal hostel. [Tom] Yeah. So were there many other people, ah, in there, similar to you that, ah, who sort of come from other parts of Australia and the world? [Bill] Yes, it was very cosmopolitan the hostel.
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Say probably about 200 people, um, would have lived there that stage. [Tom] 'Cause the steelworks was expanding back then I suppose, was it, or..? [Bill] Not, not as much as it has of more recent years, ah, Say probably about 200 people, um, would have lived there that stage. [Tom] 'Cause the steelworks was expanding back then I suppose, was it, or..? [Bill] Not, not as much as it has of more recent years, ah,
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I think the BOS was the, coming online about that time. [Tom] Okay. So I, I, I guess for the most part there was a shortage of, um, of, ah, tradespeople and things, is that why they brought people from overseas do you think? [Bill] Oh, I expect so, that was, ah, I think the BOS was the, coming online about that time. [Tom] Okay. So I, I, I guess for the most part there was a shortage of, um, of, ah, tradespeople and things, is that why they brought people from overseas do you think? [Bill] Oh, I expect so, that was, ah,
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yeah, lots of, ah, people from England and, other places. [Tom] So were, were, were there many, um, Aussies like you with, ah, trade qualifications or were most of them from overseas? yeah, lots of, ah, people from England and, other places. [Tom] So were, were, were there many, um, Aussies like you with, ah, trade qualifications or were most of them from overseas?
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Oh, I'd say about half and half, ah, Oh, I'd say about half and half, ah,
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English speaking or Australian born. English speaking or Australian born.
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[Tom] So, it was around about that time you came to work in Wollongong and you were going to make your bankroll. Is that right? [Bill] Yeah. [Tom] Then, um, then something happened that made it a bit more comfortable for you there, I think, ah, [Tom] So, it was around about that time you came to work in Wollongong and you were going to make your bankroll. Is that right? [Bill] Yeah. [Tom] Then, um, then something happened that made it a bit more comfortable for you there, I think, ah,
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around about what 1966, when you, you met your wife? around about what 1966, when you, you met your wife?
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[Bill] Oh no, I, I met her early in the piece, about, about 1961. [Tom] Oh, okay. [Bill] At the, at the YHA. [Bill] Oh no, I, I met her early in the piece, about, about 1961. [Tom] Oh, okay. [Bill] At the, at the YHA.
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[Tom] They used to have a name for the, was that the Youth Hostels Association was it, or was it called something else back then? [Bill] Well, the Youth Hostels was the official title, but it was known to all and sundry as the Young Husbands Association. [Tom] Oh really [laughs]. So what, is that where the, the young women went to look for a, a husband? Or was it where the young men went to look for a, a wife? [Bill] I think it was, ah, a bit of both actually. But, ah, a passing interest in camping and weekends [Tom] They used to have a name for the, was that the Youth Hostels Association was it, or was it called something else back then? [Bill] Well, the Youth Hostels was the official title, but it was known to all and sundry as the Young Husbands Association. [Tom] Oh really [laughs]. So what, is that where the, the young women went to look for a, a husband? Or was it where the young men went to look for a, a wife? [Bill] I think it was, ah, a bit of both actually. But, ah, a passing interest in camping and weekends
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in the countryside. [Tom] So in the countryside. [Tom] So
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where was that in Wollongong? [Bill] That was in Market Street. [Tom] Oh. where was that in Wollongong? [Bill] That was in Market Street. [Tom] Oh.
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Just next, next to Kembla Street, ah, Just next, next to Kembla Street, ah,
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I can't think of the name of it, it was a church hall or a, some sort of, um, I can't think of the name of it, it was a church hall or a, some sort of, um,
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a hall there that we used to go to every Tuesday night and have dances or film nights or talks by somebody or other. [Tom] And I think you told me that you had some dancing lessons when you were younger, so you were probably quite a good dancer, where you by then? [Bill] Well, I would never have passed muster, but I, I had improved. [Tom] Uh-huh, which year did you get married er, Bill? [Bill] 1965. [Tom] Right. a hall there that we used to go to every Tuesday night and have dances or film nights or talks by somebody or other. [Tom] And I think you told me that you had some dancing lessons when you were younger, so you were probably quite a good dancer, where you by then? [Bill] Well, I would never have passed muster, but I, I had improved. [Tom] Uh-huh, which year did you get married er, Bill? [Bill] 1965. [Tom] Right.
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And did you have a honeymoon or a, wedding? [Bill] Yes, ah, And did you have a honeymoon or a, wedding? [Bill] Yes, ah,
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we had a we had a
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wedding and the reception was in the wedding and the reception was in the
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YWCA in Thomas Street YWCA in Thomas Street
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and, ah, it was a fair to middling crowd. Went out through Broken Hill down to Adelaide. [Tom] Oh, yes. [Bill] On our honeymoon, 'cause I had some relatives at Broken Hill I hadn't met and I thought it'd be off the beaten track, which it was. and, ah, it was a fair to middling crowd. Went out through Broken Hill down to Adelaide. [Tom] Oh, yes. [Bill] On our honeymoon, 'cause I had some relatives at Broken Hill I hadn't met and I thought it'd be off the beaten track, which it was.
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I met my relatives and, ah, we went on down through Adelaide and Mount Gambier and back through Victoria I met my relatives and, ah, we went on down through Adelaide and Mount Gambier and back through Victoria
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and back to Wollongong. [Tom] So how did you travel on that? Was that a train, or did you have a car? [Bill] No, I had a and back to Wollongong. [Tom] So how did you travel on that? Was that a train, or did you have a car? [Bill] No, I had a
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Holden by that time on patriotic duty. [Tom] Even though you'd originally come to Wollongong to, um, to get a bankroll to go on further, you, um, you then got married and found that it was nice and comfortable and you wanted to stay? [Bill] Yes, that's about it. [Tom] So, ah, at what time did you join the, you decided to join the police around about that time, would you...? [Bill] Yes, after I got married I thought it would be more permanent, ah, Holden by that time on patriotic duty. [Tom] Even though you'd originally come to Wollongong to, um, to get a bankroll to go on further, you, um, you then got married and found that it was nice and comfortable and you wanted to stay? [Bill] Yes, that's about it. [Tom] So, ah, at what time did you join the, you decided to join the police around about that time, would you...? [Bill] Yes, after I got married I thought it would be more permanent, ah,
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the security, and I joined in 1966. [Tom] So the, um, were you allowed to stay in Wollongong after you trained then or did they send you somewhere else? [Bill] No, I, I moved to, ah, moved to Sydney when I joined and, ah, the security, and I joined in 1966. [Tom] So the, um, were you allowed to stay in Wollongong after you trained then or did they send you somewhere else? [Bill] No, I, I moved to, ah, moved to Sydney when I joined and, ah,
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was stationed in Balmain and Five Dock. Then I went out the country. [Tom] So what, what was it, what was life like being a policeman in Balmain and Five Dock, ah, in those days? [Bill] Very, very interesting, ah, except the biggest part of the work was, ah, going to motor vehicle accidents and things of that nature. was stationed in Balmain and Five Dock. Then I went out the country. [Tom] So what, what was it, what was life like being a policeman in Balmain and Five Dock, ah, in those days? [Bill] Very, very interesting, ah, except the biggest part of the work was, ah, going to motor vehicle accidents and things of that nature.
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[Tom] So, ah, you moved out to Grenfell in the, in the Midwest? [Bill] Yes. [Tom] That was a bit of a different way of life out there, after living in the city? [Bill] Yeah, it was quite different, small town and, um, [Tom] So, ah, you moved out to Grenfell in the, in the Midwest? [Bill] Yes. [Tom] That was a bit of a different way of life out there, after living in the city? [Bill] Yeah, it was quite different, small town and, um,
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everybody was very friendly, got along well with everyone and, ah, it was a everybody was very friendly, got along well with everyone and, ah, it was a
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whole new ball game as far as the policing was concerned. [Tom] But there was a, a major incident there, I think you said, where a, a commuter plane had, had crashed nearby? [Bill] Yes, that happened and, um, it ended up getting a helicopter from whole new ball game as far as the policing was concerned. [Tom] But there was a, a major incident there, I think you said, where a, a commuter plane had, had crashed nearby? [Bill] Yes, that happened and, um, it ended up getting a helicopter from
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Canberra and come and lift the people out and bring them into the hospital. [Tom] So was it easy to communicate in those days? Did they have radios or, or, or telephone or what? [Bill]  At that, that stage, that particular incident, ah, police radio hadn't, ah, hadn't arrived in, ah, Grenfell or wasn't Canberra and come and lift the people out and bring them into the hospital. [Tom] So was it easy to communicate in those days? Did they have radios or, or, or telephone or what? [Bill]  At that, that stage, that particular incident, ah, police radio hadn't, ah, hadn't arrived in, ah, Grenfell or wasn't
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in our cars at that stage, so we had to communicate with that site in our cars at that stage, so we had to communicate with that site
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via West Wyalong and the ambulance radioed back to Grenfell, and they via West Wyalong and the ambulance radioed back to Grenfell, and they
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we got information for them by telephone. [Tom] And there was a chain of command that you had to go through before you could call in the helicopter? [Bill] Yes, that was, ah, we got information for them by telephone. [Tom] And there was a chain of command that you had to go through before you could call in the helicopter? [Bill] Yes, that was, ah,
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another side to it. We had to, um, go through the ambulance. They went through their radio to Wyalong, who were behind the mountain, and they got to the mountain, and they sent their requests. They came through to us and we relayed it to the Inspector at Forbes, who went to the Superintendent at Parkes, who then relayed it to Sydney, and, ah, another side to it. We had to, um, go through the ambulance. They went through their radio to Wyalong, who were behind the mountain, and they got to the mountain, and they sent their requests. They came through to us and we relayed it to the Inspector at Forbes, who went to the Superintendent at Parkes, who then relayed it to Sydney, and, ah,
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back and forth for a while before the authority was given for the helicopter to come. [Tom] But ah, I, think they saved everybody, is that right, or..? [Bill] Yes, there was, there was some, some injuries from that, but nobody died as a result of it. back and forth for a while before the authority was given for the helicopter to come. [Tom] But ah, I, think they saved everybody, is that right, or..? [Bill] Yes, there was, there was some, some injuries from that, but nobody died as a result of it.
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Um, and, um, Um, and, um,
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you moved from Grenfell down to, um, a small place at, ah, Captains Flat. Why, why did you move there? you moved from Grenfell down to, um, a small place at, ah, Captains Flat. Why, why did you move there?
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Well, um, Well, um,
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to broaden my experience and, um, to broaden my experience and, um,
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be my own man. 'Cause it was a one man operation down there and, ah, that was largely the purpose of it. [Tom] And your children were, were still quite young then. What, er, Timothy about five and a half. [Bill] He was about 5 and a half, yes, and Simon about four, four and, ah, four years. be my own man. 'Cause it was a one man operation down there and, ah, that was largely the purpose of it. [Tom] And your children were, were still quite young then. What, er, Timothy about five and a half. [Bill] He was about 5 and a half, yes, and Simon about four, four and, ah, four years.
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They attended the local, or Timothy attended the local school, and we took Simon into town occasionally into a preschool. They attended the local, or Timothy attended the local school, and we took Simon into town occasionally into a preschool.
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We had to do all our shopping in Queanbeyan or Canberra. [Tom] Yeah, yeah. I don't think Captains Flat would have changed very much since then, do you think? Have you been back there? [Bill] No, I haven't been back but I don't believe it, it certainly hasn't improved, it's just got less and less, ah... We had to do all our shopping in Queanbeyan or Canberra. [Tom] Yeah, yeah. I don't think Captains Flat would have changed very much since then, do you think? Have you been back there? [Bill] No, I haven't been back but I don't believe it, it certainly hasn't improved, it's just got less and less, ah...
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Less houses. Less houses.
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[Bill] Then they were,a lot of the houses where used by people who commuted into Canberra. [Tom] Right. [Bill] They got jobs in Canberra when the mine closed, ah, which was before I went there. [Tom] So the town is a, is, is quiet in the day when people are all working in Canberra. [Bill] Yes, yes. [Bill] Then they were,a lot of the houses where used by people who commuted into Canberra. [Tom] Right. [Bill] They got jobs in Canberra when the mine closed, ah, which was before I went there. [Tom] So the town is a, is, is quiet in the day when people are all working in Canberra. [Bill] Yes, yes.
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[Tom] And, ah, you then decided to, what, come back to Wollongong in the, the early '70s. [Bill] Yes. [Tom] So how was it like, er, coming back to Wollongong after you'd been away, what, for about 10 years or something? [Tom] And, ah, you then decided to, what, come back to Wollongong in the, the early '70s. [Bill] Yes. [Tom] So how was it like, er, coming back to Wollongong after you'd been away, what, for about 10 years or something?
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Right? Right?
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Well it was a, a, Well it was a, a,
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it was like being back in Sydney workwise with a big team of people to work with, and, ah, it was like being back in Sydney workwise with a big team of people to work with, and, ah,
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better family wise. [Tom] Yeah. better family wise. [Tom] Yeah.
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And ah... And ah...
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[Bill] Doctors and things like that. [Tom] But you'd previously worked in Wollongong in the steelworks. [Bill] Steelworks. [Tom] And now you were back as a policeman. [Bill] Yes, that's right, yeah, yeah. [Bill] Doctors and things like that. [Tom] But you'd previously worked in Wollongong in the steelworks. [Bill] Steelworks. [Tom] And now you were back as a policeman. [Bill] Yes, that's right, yeah, yeah.
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So I guess you saw a different side of Wollongong, yeah as a ... [Bill] Yes I did. Yes, it was a diff-, different, ah, experience. So I guess you saw a different side of Wollongong, yeah as a ... [Bill] Yes I did. Yes, it was a diff-, different, ah, experience.
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Was there something that, ah, can you remember that you'd want to tell me on tape that was, ah, that you remember from back then that was interesting? Was there something that, ah, can you remember that you'd want to tell me on tape that was, ah, that you remember from back then that was interesting?
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I'd say, ah, I'd say, ah,
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recall a particular incident, no, ah, recall a particular incident, no, ah,
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I did, um, after I, shortly after I came back, I, I moved onto breathalyser work. [Tom] Oh yeah. [Bill] And I did that, did that for number of, ah, number of years. That was solely testing people who had the misfortune to come under notice. [Tom] Do you think that made a difference, ah, when the breathalyser came in, to drink driving? [Bill] I certainly did, ah, I did, um, after I, shortly after I came back, I, I moved onto breathalyser work. [Tom] Oh yeah. [Bill] And I did that, did that for number of, ah, number of years. That was solely testing people who had the misfortune to come under notice. [Tom] Do you think that made a difference, ah, when the breathalyser came in, to drink driving? [Bill] I certainly did, ah,
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it made the police, police work much easier. it made the police, police work much easier.
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'Cause before that 'Cause before that
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It was, ah, a very difficult job to, ah, It was, ah, a very difficult job to, ah,
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obtain a conviction. But this was more a scientific approach, and, um, a person went to a certain level,  it was assumed that obtain a conviction. But this was more a scientific approach, and, um, a person went to a certain level,  it was assumed that
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they were at fault, so that made it easy police wise and, ah, they were at fault, so that made it easy police wise and, ah,
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a lot less accidents and did have a big impact at the time. [Tom] So, um, how would you check if somebody was, ah, drink driving before the breathalyser came in? a lot less accidents and did have a big impact at the time. [Tom] So, um, how would you check if somebody was, ah, drink driving before the breathalyser came in?
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[Bill] Rely on, main-, mainly on observations or as the result of an accident or someone had come to grief and, ah, come under notice that way. [Tom] Was there some sort of test they had to go through, or..? [Bill] Rely on, main-, mainly on observations or as the result of an accident or someone had come to grief and, ah, come under notice that way. [Tom] Was there some sort of test they had to go through, or..?
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We just relied on, um, personal observation mainly, um, see if they, if they could walk a, a reasonably straight line or their eyes weren't bloodshot or their breath, or their speech wasn't slurred, and things like that nature yes, ah. Then later on random breath testing and, such things like that refinement, but... We just relied on, um, personal observation mainly, um, see if they, if they could walk a, a reasonably straight line or their eyes weren't bloodshot or their breath, or their speech wasn't slurred, and things like that nature yes, ah. Then later on random breath testing and, such things like that refinement, but...
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[Tom] So you, um, you eventually ended in Sutherland for a while, and you got a promotion as a Sergeant. [Bill] Yes I, when I became a Sergeant, I was transferred away from the breathalyser back to general duties and, ah, about 18 months after that I was moved up to, ah, Sutherland and I, I ranged that area for the rest of my service. [Tom] So you need a lot more, you got more skills in supervision and dealing with people. [Bill] Yes, that's right, ah, [Tom] So you, um, you eventually ended in Sutherland for a while, and you got a promotion as a Sergeant. [Bill] Yes I, when I became a Sergeant, I was transferred away from the breathalyser back to general duties and, ah, about 18 months after that I was moved up to, ah, Sutherland and I, I ranged that area for the rest of my service. [Tom] So you need a lot more, you got more skills in supervision and dealing with people. [Bill] Yes, that's right, ah,
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heavy, heavy emphasis on supervision and management skills now, and, ah, not only have to do your own work, you've got to be responsible for all those under your control and make sure that they're performing. heavy, heavy emphasis on supervision and management skills now, and, ah, not only have to do your own work, you've got to be responsible for all those under your control and make sure that they're performing.
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In your life you've seen quite a lot, you've been born in Kalgoorlie and then been an apprentice as a ... In your life you've seen quite a lot, you've been born in Kalgoorlie and then been an apprentice as a ...
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on the railways and then going to New Zealand, and then being a policeman in the, in the country and, um, so have you enjoyed that? [Bill] Yes. [Tom] So um, I could, I could talk, ah, for, for a long time about, ah, some of the things that you've seen as a policeman I think, but I've only got about half an hour to do this program so um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna close now and say thank you Bill for, for spending the time to speak with me this morning. And I, I look forward to on the railways and then going to New Zealand, and then being a policeman in the, in the country and, um, so have you enjoyed that? [Bill] Yes. [Tom] So um, I could, I could talk, ah, for, for a long time about, ah, some of the things that you've seen as a policeman I think, but I've only got about half an hour to do this program so um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna close now and say thank you Bill for, for spending the time to speak with me this morning. And I, I look forward to
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seeing you at Toastmasters perhaps one day. [Bill] Yes, look forward to having you. seeing you at Toastmasters perhaps one day. [Bill] Yes, look forward to having you.