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0:05

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This is Patricia Curthoys, continuing the interview with Nicole Fleming, after a short break. This is Patricia Curthoys, continuing the interview with Nicole Fleming, after a short break.
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Nicole, we might just finish with some focused questions. Nicole, we might just finish with some focused questions.
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So. So.
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What do you think? What do you think is easier now for you as an LGBTQIA+ person than it was when you were younger? And, what, if anything, might have become more difficult? What do you think? What do you think is easier now for you as an LGBTQIA+ person than it was when you were younger? And, what, if anything, might have become more difficult?
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Oh, I think for me, the fact that I understand myself and who I am, and that that's OK for that not to be black and white, and to for it to be what it is, is much easier, and much easier. Oh, I think for me, the fact that I understand myself and who I am, and that that's OK for that not to be black and white, and to for it to be what it is, is much easier, and much easier.
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So, that's OK to be me [Patricia laughs]. And I think in the church, from a church perspective, it's certainly easier to be a minister who's, who's out. And, that even in the 10 year, ooh, 10, 12, 4, 12? [Patricia laughs] 13! years [Nicole laughs] I was ordained. So, that's OK to be me [Patricia laughs]. And I think in the church, from a church perspective, it's certainly easier to be a minister who's, who's out. And, that even in the 10 year, ooh, 10, 12, 4, 12? [Patricia laughs] 13! years [Nicole laughs] I was ordained.
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That, that sense is like, that's easier too, that I'm not worried when I go to places, if people are thinking, oh, there's [Paticia] Right! [Nicole] that gay minister or whatever. That, that sense is like, that's easier too, that I'm not worried when I go to places, if people are thinking, oh, there's [Paticia] Right! [Nicole] that gay minister or whatever.
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That, um, [Patricia] just sort of genuinely within the church. [Nicole] Yeah, in the Uniting Church. But it's fine. Like, and in other churches, when I go to ecumenical events, [Patricia] hm-mm. [Nicole] I'm not sure whether they're more worried I'm a woman or whether I'm gay, you know [laughs], they don't know what to do with that. That, um, [Patricia] just sort of genuinely within the church. [Nicole] Yeah, in the Uniting Church. But it's fine. Like, and in other churches, when I go to ecumenical events, [Patricia] hm-mm. [Nicole] I'm not sure whether they're more worried I'm a woman or whether I'm gay, you know [laughs], they don't know what to do with that.
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What's become more difficult, What's become more difficult,
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I can't think of anything that's become more difficult, in my experience. I can't think of anything that's become more difficult, in my experience.
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Yeah. Like, obviously we, um, my partner and I have a son and, um, we, um, we don't live in the inner West [They laugh]. And, so we were nervous about moving out of that area and it's just been Yeah. Like, obviously we, um, my partner and I have a son and, um, we, um, we don't live in the inner West [They laugh]. And, so we were nervous about moving out of that area and it's just been
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so much easier than I expected. so much easier than I expected.
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Again, not an issue that maybe I'm being naive and I don't notice people looking at us, but he hasn't had any problems, and he goes to a preschool in Westmead. Again, not an issue that maybe I'm being naive and I don't notice people looking at us, but he hasn't had any problems, and he goes to a preschool in Westmead.
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He is just part He is just part
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of like, there's such a diverse group there, a lot of Indian kids from Indian backgrounds because of the area, but there's also kids from, um Islamic background and Lebanese background. And, um, there's another family where there's two mums, you know, and, um. of like, there's such a diverse group there, a lot of Indian kids from Indian backgrounds because of the area, but there's also kids from, um Islamic background and Lebanese background. And, um, there's another family where there's two mums, you know, and, um.
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he's just part of all that, just mocks him with everyone, like, it's just is what it is. So, um, I don't, yeah, for me I don't, there's nothing that I can think of that's more difficult. he's just part of all that, just mocks him with everyone, like, it's just is what it is. So, um, I don't, yeah, for me I don't, there's nothing that I can think of that's more difficult.
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In the context of, you know, the Sydney World Pride celebration next year. In the context of, you know, the Sydney World Pride celebration next year.
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You know, pride, pride's a term that that people use. You know, pride, pride's a term that that people use.
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What? What?
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What does pride, what does pride mean to you? Mm, so for me, pride is something to do with an unapella, unapologetic acceptance, and loving of oneself. What does pride, what does pride mean to you? Mm, so for me, pride is something to do with an unapella, unapologetic acceptance, and loving of oneself.
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On a, like on an individual front, but it's also a, a celebration of that, and then also a celebration more broadly within the community of, of, On a, like on an individual front, but it's also a, a celebration of that, and then also a celebration more broadly within the community of, of,
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the wonderful diversity that is, um, encapsulated in, the wonderful diversity that is, um, encapsulated in,
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in the LGBTIQ community and beyond. in the LGBTIQ community and beyond.
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Can you think of a milestone in? Can you think of a milestone in?
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LGBTQA, QIA plus history [Nicole] Hmm. [Patricia] either within or beyond the church that has most affected you, either as something you've lived through, or whose legacy you may have been shaped, you may have been some way been shaped by. [Nicole] Yeah, I think for me, really, that it's most affected me as though, are those decisions that the church, the Uniting Church has made around LGBTQA, QIA plus history [Nicole] Hmm. [Patricia] either within or beyond the church that has most affected you, either as something you've lived through, or whose legacy you may have been shaped, you may have been some way been shaped by. [Nicole] Yeah, I think for me, really, that it's most affected me as though, are those decisions that the church, the Uniting Church has made around
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ordination of people ordination of people
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who are gay, and marriage of same sex couples, and, who are gay, and marriage of same sex couples, and,
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yeah, that, yeah, that,
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that, that. that, that.
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That there's a place in the church for me, and that That there's a place in the church for me, and that
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you know, really, I'm quite, you know, really, I'm quite,
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I know that people value what I offer in the church, and I don't mean to say that in an arrogant way, but, but that the shift has not been around. There's a a shift from being around sexuality to what people offer, um, and that I can just get on with ministry, without it. I know that people value what I offer in the church, and I don't mean to say that in an arrogant way, but, but that the shift has not been around. There's a a shift from being around sexuality to what people offer, um, and that I can just get on with ministry, without it.
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Without Without
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too many barriers. too many barriers.
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And that's really, as I said before, due to people, the pioneers before me who had to have secret relationships, they couldn't not, they didn't have the luxury of of making a different choice to that. And then And that's really, as I said before, due to people, the pioneers before me who had to have secret relationships, they couldn't not, they didn't have the luxury of of making a different choice to that. And then
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a movement of people like Dorothy McRae, McMahon and others who were who did come out, and courageously so, because they could have lost their positions. a movement of people like Dorothy McRae, McMahon and others who were who did come out, and courageously so, because they could have lost their positions.
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And. And.
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Yeah. So that, that's when I, when I think of that question, that moment that, that, um, really affects me, It's it's that. Yeah. So that, that's when I, when I think of that question, that moment that, that, um, really affects me, It's it's that.
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Thank you. Thank you.