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This is an interview with Mrs Jacqueline Samuels. The interviewer is Roslyn Burge. This interview is taking place on Saturday This is an interview with Mrs Jacqueline Samuels. The interviewer is Roslyn Burge. This interview is taking place on Saturday
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the ninth of December two thousand seventeen and Mrs Pat Samuels' home the ninth of December two thousand seventeen and Mrs Pat Samuels' home
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in Lewisham in Sydney. Also present is her daughter Selina Samuels. This interview is being recorded for the State Library of in Lewisham in Sydney. Also present is her daughter Selina Samuels. This interview is being recorded for the State Library of
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New South Wales Oral History collection, New South Wales Oral History collection,
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particularly the New South Wales governor's consort's oral history project. Thank you Mrs Samuels for agreeing to be particularly the New South Wales governor's consort's oral history project. Thank you Mrs Samuels for agreeing to be
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part of this project. Well, it's very nice to be asked, uh huh. And just for the record, could you give me your full name part of this project. Well, it's very nice to be asked, uh huh. And just for the record, could you give me your full name
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and your date of birth? I'm Jacqueline Samuels, was Jacqueline Kott which was the name I used professionally and my date of birth is the eighth of September 1927. I think that is right. That is correct.[chuckling] and your date of birth? I'm Jacqueline Samuels, was Jacqueline Kott which was the name I used professionally and my date of birth is the eighth of September 1927. I think that is right. That is correct.[chuckling]
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So So
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when when you went to Government House, or, or your husband accepted the role, you were already in a retired age bracket. [Mrs Samuels] Was I? [laughter] I never seem to when when you went to Government House, or, or your husband accepted the role, you were already in a retired age bracket. [Mrs Samuels] Was I? [laughter] I never seem to
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've retired. Um, I don't know what to say to that. You were in your late sixties, did you ever think twice about...well it didn't really matter much actually. The 've retired. Um, I don't know what to say to that. You were in your late sixties, did you ever think twice about...well it didn't really matter much actually. The
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The reason we were, we were asked, there was a need for peace and quiet. The reason we were, we were asked, there was a need for peace and quiet.
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There was a bit of a drama, um, politically There was a bit of a drama, um, politically
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and the Governor was not going to live in Government House, but was going to still be a Governor, and this caused an enormous sort of drama. Um, and the Governor was not going to live in Government House, but was going to still be a Governor, and this caused an enormous sort of drama. Um,
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people thought that was not right. If the Governor wasn't in Government House then he wasn't really a Governor. And, people thought that was not right. If the Governor wasn't in Government House then he wasn't really a Governor. And,
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um, so they had to find someone who didn't care a damn about, huh, the politics. And so they asked Gordon to do it, and he of course accepted um, so they had to find someone who didn't care a damn about, huh, the politics. And so they asked Gordon to do it, and he of course accepted
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and we fought the battle about not living in Government House. Ah, that went on for years. And there were still people years later, and we fought the battle about not living in Government House. Ah, that went on for years. And there were still people years later,
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who said "Why didn't ou live at Government House". But it wasn't really our decison. It was a policial decison. who said "Why didn't ou live at Government House". But it wasn't really our decison. It was a policial decison.
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And, and really a very wise one, because I don't think I'd have been able to cope with living in Government House. If anybody's been upstairs and seen the bedrooms And, and really a very wise one, because I don't think I'd have been able to cope with living in Government House. If anybody's been upstairs and seen the bedrooms
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they would say the same thing. It's, it's not really very comfortable. And that's how we got into, into it. Um, but I, I mean we were very honoured and flattered and so on. And we had to work out how we worked this, living at one place and working at the other. Ah, so we always had to have a good they would say the same thing. It's, it's not really very comfortable. And that's how we got into, into it. Um, but I, I mean we were very honoured and flattered and so on. And we had to work out how we worked this, living at one place and working at the other. Ah, so we always had to have a good
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car and driver. We had splendid drivers, some of whom I can remember car and driver. We had splendid drivers, some of whom I can remember
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very clearly. Ah, and, and it was a sort of compromise that the government made. Not, not to sort of ban the whole royal thing. I mean there were people who very clearly. Ah, and, and it was a sort of compromise that the government made. Not, not to sort of ban the whole royal thing. I mean there were people who
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wanted there to be no Governor, which would have made the constitution very peculiar. Um, so it was a political decision, which we felt [chuckles] we, we, we wanted there to be no Governor, which would have made the constitution very peculiar. Um, so it was a political decision, which we felt [chuckles] we, we, we
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went into it with, with a feeling of great honour really, I mean it was a splendid thing to do. [Roslyn] Was there ever a moment when went into it with, with a feeling of great honour really, I mean it was a splendid thing to do. [Roslyn] Was there ever a moment when
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you thought, should we or should we not? [Mrs Samuels] No, because I think that once the formal, ah, decision was made, we you thought, should we or should we not? [Mrs Samuels] No, because I think that once the formal, ah, decision was made, we
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we were in it. And, ah, the decision was a political one. [Selina Samuels] Didn't, but did, we were in it. And, ah, the decision was a political one. [Selina Samuels] Didn't, but did,
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when, when the question was first put to Daddy by Bob Carr, did you have any reservations before he accepted? when, when the question was first put to Daddy by Bob Carr, did you have any reservations before he accepted?
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I think we, Gordon felt very much that he was honoured to be asked. And, and it was a challenge. Ah, as far as I was concerned I just went along. [laughter] [Roslyn] You make it sound I think we, Gordon felt very much that he was honoured to be asked. And, and it was a challenge. Ah, as far as I was concerned I just went along. [laughter] [Roslyn] You make it sound
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a breeze. [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] I was trying to think of some of the first things that I, I remembered about it. And I do remember a terrible meeting, um, it was terrible for me because I was forced to be, preside at the Country Women's Association, who of course were very a breeze. [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] I was trying to think of some of the first things that I, I remembered about it. And I do remember a terrible meeting, um, it was terrible for me because I was forced to be, preside at the Country Women's Association, who of course were very
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conservative and didn't agree with all these. And they were having a meeting, an Annual General meeting, and, ah, I had to speak to them. conservative and didn't agree with all these. And they were having a meeting, an Annual General meeting, and, ah, I had to speak to them.
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And I found myself in the Town Hall, um, of Sydney with no notes and no script, having to address the Country Women's Association. Terrifying, and the most And I found myself in the Town Hall, um, of Sydney with no notes and no script, having to address the Country Women's Association. Terrifying, and the most
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terrifying thing about it is that they all had on hats, and I didn't have a hat. [laughter] [Roslyn] So did your recommendations go down well? [Mrs Samuels] About the hats? Well it took my whole term to get the message terrifying thing about it is that they all had on hats, and I didn't have a hat. [laughter] [Roslyn] So did your recommendations go down well? [Mrs Samuels] About the hats? Well it took my whole term to get the message
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through. By the time we'd finished there were no more compulsory hats. The milliners were terr-, terrified. [laughter] through. By the time we'd finished there were no more compulsory hats. The milliners were terr-, terrified. [laughter]
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When you came to that role, was there a manual of what you should do, or where, or...? [Mrs Samuels] No, you When you came to that role, was there a manual of what you should do, or where, or...? [Mrs Samuels] No, you
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or by, with help, I had a very nice assistant, um, Glenice. Do you remember Glenice? [Selina Samuels] Oh, vaguely. [Mrs Samuels] She was my Aide. And, she'd, she'd been in the government for quite a long time, so she knew or by, with help, I had a very nice assistant, um, Glenice. Do you remember Glenice? [Selina Samuels] Oh, vaguely. [Mrs Samuels] She was my Aide. And, she'd, she'd been in the government for quite a long time, so she knew
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all those, sort of, corners and quirks. Because that was to me totally new, this sort of political thing. [Roslyn] That's one thing about Government House, it comes with all the, the things you didn't want, but it all those, sort of, corners and quirks. Because that was to me totally new, this sort of political thing. [Roslyn] That's one thing about Government House, it comes with all the, the things you didn't want, but it
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also came with staff, ah, for, for entertaining. also came with staff, ah, for, for entertaining.
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[Mrs Samuels] Oh yes, indeed, I mean, yes, we, we did all our entertaining at, ah, at the house, even though we weren't living there. [Roslyn] Did you? Did you do any at Bronte? [Mrs Samuels] Very little. [Selina Samuels] We did the informal, um, when, we, we had Christmas [Mrs Samuels] Oh yes, indeed, I mean, yes, we, we did all our entertaining at, ah, at the house, even though we weren't living there. [Roslyn] Did you? Did you do any at Bronte? [Mrs Samuels] Very little. [Selina Samuels] We did the informal, um, when, we, we had Christmas
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for the staff at Bronte. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I knew that. [Selina Samuels] Hosted the staff at Bronte. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, yes. But apart from that we didn't do much at Bronte. [Roslyn] Amongst the various transcripts, and so on of interviews with you for the staff at Bronte. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I knew that. [Selina Samuels] Hosted the staff at Bronte. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, yes. But apart from that we didn't do much at Bronte. [Roslyn] Amongst the various transcripts, and so on of interviews with you
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and Mr Samuels that I've seen, I think he refers to you almost living at Randwick Mall. That you loved going up in there in the beginning but not and Mr Samuels that I've seen, I think he refers to you almost living at Randwick Mall. That you loved going up in there in the beginning but not
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towards the end [chuckles] to do your shopping. [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] Yes, um, I tried to make life as normal as possible. Ah, and it was really very simple because I was not really recognised all the time, towards the end [chuckles] to do your shopping. [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] Yes, um, I tried to make life as normal as possible. Ah, and it was really very simple because I was not really recognised all the time,
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or often. Um, and certainly people didn't recognise me when I was doing the shopping. [laughter] [Selina Samuels] Sometimes they did. Sometimes, 'cos I remember shopping with you in the supermarket, some people would look, sort of do a double take with you or often. Um, and certainly people didn't recognise me when I was doing the shopping. [laughter] [Selina Samuels] Sometimes they did. Sometimes, 'cos I remember shopping with you in the supermarket, some people would look, sort of do a double take with you
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when you yoga gear, they'd be "Is that who I think it is?" [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] But it didn't happen often, no. [Roslyn] Was that a battle for you to keep it as normal as possible? [Mrs Samuels] No. when you yoga gear, they'd be "Is that who I think it is?" [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] But it didn't happen often, no. [Roslyn] Was that a battle for you to keep it as normal as possible? [Mrs Samuels] No.
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Well I suppose it was. I, it never occurred to me that I wish I live in Government House. It never occurred to me. I mean Well I suppose it was. I, it never occurred to me that I wish I live in Government House. It never occurred to me. I mean
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first of all, it was politically not possible. Um, by the time we won that battle, I, it wasn't very comfortable. It wasn't very nice. [Roslyn] Yes, you're not first of all, it was politically not possible. Um, by the time we won that battle, I, it wasn't very comfortable. It wasn't very nice. [Roslyn] Yes, you're not
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you're not alone in saying that. And what about a handover from, um, Admiral Sinclair and Mrs Sinclair, did they meet and greet you're not alone in saying that. And what about a handover from, um, Admiral Sinclair and Mrs Sinclair, did they meet and greet
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and show you through the ropes? [Mrs Samuels] No. [Roslyn] So you really... [Mrs Samuels] I think they, they were appalled at what at happened. And they were also, sort of were fighting to keep us at, at Government House. So, they didn't, we didn't really, they might have given us a little lunch or something, I and show you through the ropes? [Mrs Samuels] No. [Roslyn] So you really... [Mrs Samuels] I think they, they were appalled at what at happened. And they were also, sort of were fighting to keep us at, at Government House. So, they didn't, we didn't really, they might have given us a little lunch or something, I
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don't, I can't remember. [Roslyn] Um, don't, I can't remember. [Roslyn] Um,
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so you mention Glenice, was she able to help you with all the correspondence and that so you mention Glenice, was she able to help you with all the correspondence and that
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sort of... [Mrs Samuels] Oh yes, we had staff, we had Aides, um, who, Glenice was my personal Aide, which was great. sort of... [Mrs Samuels] Oh yes, we had staff, we had Aides, um, who, Glenice was my personal Aide, which was great.
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She had a hat. [laughter] [Roslyn] That's [indistinct] [Selina Samuels] There was Margaret as well. And Gordon's Secretary, yes, who was his Secretary all the time. He was at the bar and when he was a Judge, She had a hat. [laughter] [Roslyn] That's [indistinct] [Selina Samuels] There was Margaret as well. And Gordon's Secretary, yes, who was his Secretary all the time. He was at the bar and when he was a Judge,
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and so, I mean, she still worked for him. Um... [Selina Samuels] Margaret Anderson. [Mrs Samuels] And she's still around. She rings up at least once a fortnight to see if I'm all right. [Roslyn] That's lovely. So just thinking about and so, I mean, she still worked for him. Um... [Selina Samuels] Margaret Anderson. [Mrs Samuels] And she's still around. She rings up at least once a fortnight to see if I'm all right. [Roslyn] That's lovely. So just thinking about
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some of the practicalities, would you go into Government House to do your day-to-day administrative work, or would you do that from home? some of the practicalities, would you go into Government House to do your day-to-day administrative work, or would you do that from home?
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Ah, well, mostly I'd do that from home. Um, I didn't have an office in, in Government House, um, so I did, but most of that correspondence stuff and so on Ah, well, mostly I'd do that from home. Um, I didn't have an office in, in Government House, um, so I did, but most of that correspondence stuff and so on
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was handled by the staff. [Roslyn] And you went on numerous visits. You went on what seemed like endless country visits. [Mrs Samuels] Well that was the main part of the job I think. Ah, and that was the most, was handled by the staff. [Roslyn] And you went on numerous visits. You went on what seemed like endless country visits. [Mrs Samuels] Well that was the main part of the job I think. Ah, and that was the most,
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that was where we were most that was where we were most
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appreciated. If we were out in a country town, they, they sort of made a great fuss of us, which was very nice. Um, and I think the country, er, part was the most important part of the role, because people from wherever suddenly found there was a government car there and there was an Aide or two in uniform. appreciated. If we were out in a country town, they, they sort of made a great fuss of us, which was very nice. Um, and I think the country, er, part was the most important part of the role, because people from wherever suddenly found there was a government car there and there was an Aide or two in uniform.
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It must have been spectacular, your arrival in that very nice car, and there's a certain sort of grandeur about It must have been spectacular, your arrival in that very nice car, and there's a certain sort of grandeur about
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having the Governor and, and his wife visit. [Mrs Samuels] Well I think they, they liked it, yes, the country people liked that very much. having the Governor and, and his wife visit. [Mrs Samuels] Well I think they, they liked it, yes, the country people liked that very much.
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And it made us feel, one of the, part of the State, you know. So I think that was one of the important parts of the, of the whole thing. [Selina Samuels] I remember one story with a, when you were talking to children who wanted to know - there was a class of kids who wanted to know what car you drove. And it made us feel, one of the, part of the State, you know. So I think that was one of the important parts of the, of the whole thing. [Selina Samuels] I remember one story with a, when you were talking to children who wanted to know - there was a class of kids who wanted to know what car you drove.
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And I think they had, like drawn the picture of the Governor and his wife arriving, and they thought it was going to be the carriage, And I think they had, like drawn the picture of the Governor and his wife arriving, and they thought it was going to be the carriage,
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of course and they were very disappointed [laughter] that it was just a, it was just a, you know Comcar, it was just an Estate or a Ford or something. [laughter] It did have a, have a flag or a pennant. [Mrs Samuels] [indistinct] [Selina Samuels] It didn't have horses and it wasn't of course and they were very disappointed [laughter] that it was just a, it was just a, you know Comcar, it was just an Estate or a Ford or something. [laughter] It did have a, have a flag or a pennant. [Mrs Samuels] [indistinct] [Selina Samuels] It didn't have horses and it wasn't
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crystal [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] That's when the ladies dusted off their hats, and their white gloves. [laughter] crystal [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] That's when the ladies dusted off their hats, and their white gloves. [laughter]
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And there's a lovely line where Mr SamuelS says as you get back into the car, "If only we could meet someone unworthy!" Did you tire of that, And there's a lovely line where Mr SamuelS says as you get back into the car, "If only we could meet someone unworthy!" Did you tire of that,
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always meeting and greeting people? [Mrs Samuels] Oh, I suppose one did get a bit - no, not really, because always meeting and greeting people? [Mrs Samuels] Oh, I suppose one did get a bit - no, not really, because
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and, ah, and we used to have a lot of fun along the way. I mean, you can't go to a Council meeting in a, in a country town without having a bit of fun. [laughter] [Roslyn] Um, so before you began the role, Mrs Samuels, did you have a sort of set a idea of what and, ah, and we used to have a lot of fun along the way. I mean, you can't go to a Council meeting in a, in a country town without having a bit of fun. [laughter] [Roslyn] Um, so before you began the role, Mrs Samuels, did you have a sort of set a idea of what
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you would do, you would do,
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and how the role would unfurl for you? [Mrs Samuels] I never imagined that I would have to, um, chair all the, Country, Country Women's Association meetings and - I mean, I hadn't really, neither of us had really thought about and how the role would unfurl for you? [Mrs Samuels] I never imagined that I would have to, um, chair all the, Country, Country Women's Association meetings and - I mean, I hadn't really, neither of us had really thought about
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what it was we were getting into, until we were in it, and, ah, then we adapted. And often we changed things to make it a little bit easier, a little bit less formal, a little more, sort of, normal day by day activity. [Roslyn] Was that easy to do? [Mrs Samuels] It depended on who what it was we were getting into, until we were in it, and, ah, then we adapted. And often we changed things to make it a little bit easier, a little bit less formal, a little more, sort of, normal day by day activity. [Roslyn] Was that easy to do? [Mrs Samuels] It depended on who
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our Aides were at the time. I mean the job of the Aide was to make us fit into whatever situation we were in, or had to be in. And, ah, I remember we had very good Aides. Service people mostly. our Aides were at the time. I mean the job of the Aide was to make us fit into whatever situation we were in, or had to be in. And, ah, I remember we had very good Aides. Service people mostly.
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They must have been a help at times like investitures or garden parties? They must have been a help at times like investitures or garden parties?
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[Mrs Samuels] Oh yes, yes. Um, mm, mm - not garden parties so much [chuckles]. [Roslyn] Escorting you, introducing, presenting people to you? [Mrs Samuels] Ah, yes, there was a lot of that. The Secretaries, and the official Secretary was very important, because that was the person who really ran the, the office part of it. [Roslyn] Were any of those events of [Mrs Samuels] Oh yes, yes. Um, mm, mm - not garden parties so much [chuckles]. [Roslyn] Escorting you, introducing, presenting people to you? [Mrs Samuels] Ah, yes, there was a lot of that. The Secretaries, and the official Secretary was very important, because that was the person who really ran the, the office part of it. [Roslyn] Were any of those events of
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particular appeal to you, one more than another? [Mrs Samuels] I really can't remember. For me it was always this thing,"What will I wear?' Did I wear that in this town last time? What sort of weather is it going to be, and we're particular appeal to you, one more than another? [Mrs Samuels] I really can't remember. For me it was always this thing,"What will I wear?' Did I wear that in this town last time? What sort of weather is it going to be, and we're
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going to be out of town for one night, then we've got to come back and do something else. It was, um, a bit of managing sort of itinerary all the time. going to be out of town for one night, then we've got to come back and do something else. It was, um, a bit of managing sort of itinerary all the time.
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[Roslyn] And you had no staff to help you with your attire I hear? [Mrs Samuels] No, not really, only helpful Aides. [Roslyn] And you had no staff to help you with your attire I hear? [Mrs Samuels] No, not really, only helpful Aides.
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[Roslyn] So the ironing and all of that? [Mrs Samuels] Oh no, I wouldn't do any of that. No, we had staff. [Selina Samuels] Laura did that. [Roslyn] You did have some help? [Selina Samuels] Laura did that. At home - Laura. Did she do your ironing? [Mrs Samuels] I don't remember that. [Selina Samuels] Remember our lovely cleaner, who was Portuguese. [Mrs Samuels] I don't remember her doing the ironing darling. [Selina Samuels] I don't think she did. I think she [Roslyn] So the ironing and all of that? [Mrs Samuels] Oh no, I wouldn't do any of that. No, we had staff. [Selina Samuels] Laura did that. [Roslyn] You did have some help? [Selina Samuels] Laura did that. At home - Laura. Did she do your ironing? [Mrs Samuels] I don't remember that. [Selina Samuels] Remember our lovely cleaner, who was Portuguese. [Mrs Samuels] I don't remember her doing the ironing darling. [Selina Samuels] I don't think she did. I think she
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anyway. [Mrs Samuels] Perhaps we didn't, perhaps we didn't really didn't have any ironing to be done. [Salina Samuels] [laughs] Oh, I think you did! [laughter] [Roslyn] And then in your memoir which Salina has very kindly donated to the project, or you've donated your book to anyway. [Mrs Samuels] Perhaps we didn't, perhaps we didn't really didn't have any ironing to be done. [Salina Samuels] [laughs] Oh, I think you did! [laughter] [Roslyn] And then in your memoir which Salina has very kindly donated to the project, or you've donated your book to
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the project, you talk about going to Balmoral, where you'd packed, but had no expectation that someone would be unpacking for you. [Mrs Samuels] That's right, and in fact that was a bit of a the project, you talk about going to Balmoral, where you'd packed, but had no expectation that someone would be unpacking for you. [Mrs Samuels] That's right, and in fact that was a bit of a
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fine, and I must say that my unpacking was done before the Queens. Because she came in, I mean her entourage came to Balmoral, I was already unpacked. [laughter] [Roslyn] So you recount that story beautifully fine, and I must say that my unpacking was done before the Queens. Because she came in, I mean her entourage came to Balmoral, I was already unpacked. [laughter] [Roslyn] So you recount that story beautifully
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in the memoir and who you met, and so on. [Mrs Samuels] Oh, that's good. [Roslyn] That must be a very special event though? [Mrs Samuels] Well, yes, it was, yes, it was. And, ah, I mean I probably written a book, the Queen ?? are taught when we were after dinner, we were, we were alone, the women, the men I mean, the women leave the men at this stage, and, ah, the Queen Mother and, and I had a bit of a chat. And I can't remember it all now. in the memoir and who you met, and so on. [Mrs Samuels] Oh, that's good. [Roslyn] That must be a very special event though? [Mrs Samuels] Well, yes, it was, yes, it was. And, ah, I mean I probably written a book, the Queen ?? are taught when we were after dinner, we were, we were alone, the women, the men I mean, the women leave the men at this stage, and, ah, the Queen Mother and, and I had a bit of a chat. And I can't remember it all now.
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[Salina Samuels] Shall l tell the story, because I've heard it many times. Do you mind if I tell the story? [Roslyn] Please. [Salina Samuels] It's not going to be quite as good as in my mother 's voice, but, um, [Salina Samuels] Shall l tell the story, because I've heard it many times. Do you mind if I tell the story? [Roslyn] Please. [Salina Samuels] It's not going to be quite as good as in my mother 's voice, but, um,
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my understanding was the Queen Mother was there with Margaret. And, and she said that she could go to bed, and she'd my understanding was the Queen Mother was there with Margaret. And, and she said that she could go to bed, and she'd
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let her maid, she'd already let her maid go to dinner - to, to bed - but she needed Margaret to help her with... [Mrs Samuels] Un, un, unzipping. [Salina Samuels] That's right. let her maid, she'd already let her maid go to dinner - to, to bed - but she needed Margaret to help her with... [Mrs Samuels] Un, un, unzipping. [Salina Samuels] That's right.
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and she - can you pick this up now? [Mrs Samuels] Ah, yes, and, ah, the Queen, ah, turned to, who it was? [Salina Samuels] It was the Queen Mother turned to Margaret and said, "You'll have to help me." And she said to you that and she - can you pick this up now? [Mrs Samuels] Ah, yes, and, ah, the Queen, ah, turned to, who it was? [Salina Samuels] It was the Queen Mother turned to Margaret and said, "You'll have to help me." And she said to you that
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the Queen Mother said to you, "It's very difficult to get that back, the, the zip's at the back." And Margaret said... [Mrs Samuels] "Oh it's all right for her, she's got a man." [laughter] [Salina Samuels] I love that line. [laughter] the Queen Mother said to you, "It's very difficult to get that back, the, the zip's at the back." And Margaret said... [Mrs Samuels] "Oh it's all right for her, she's got a man." [laughter] [Salina Samuels] I love that line. [laughter]
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When you were at Government House, did you, and had your dinners there, those formal dinners, did you retire When you were at Government House, did you, and had your dinners there, those formal dinners, did you retire
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with the ladies and leave the men to...? [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I think we did, as I recall. I think that's always been the way in ah, I don't think any, but we would, we would stay in one room, and the men would stay in the with the ladies and leave the men to...? [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I think we did, as I recall. I think that's always been the way in ah, I don't think any, but we would, we would stay in one room, and the men would stay in the
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other, and I always assumed they were going to tell dirty stories or something, I don't quite know why. [Selina Samuels] I'm sure that happened. [laughter] You're much the better dirty story teller than Daddy. [laughter] Your guests were badly badly duped I would have said. [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] It depended on how much port they'd drunk you see. [laughter] [Roslyn] So other, and I always assumed they were going to tell dirty stories or something, I don't quite know why. [Selina Samuels] I'm sure that happened. [laughter] You're much the better dirty story teller than Daddy. [laughter] Your guests were badly badly duped I would have said. [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] It depended on how much port they'd drunk you see. [laughter] [Roslyn] So
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when you were there, did when you were there, did
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you change any of the, sort of, formal structures of those dinners, or what you ate? [Mrs Samuels] No, no, nothing, no - we, we changed as little as possible. It was, we just, sort of, downgraded everything a bit, a bit to normalise things a bit more. you change any of the, sort of, formal structures of those dinners, or what you ate? [Mrs Samuels] No, no, nothing, no - we, we changed as little as possible. It was, we just, sort of, downgraded everything a bit, a bit to normalise things a bit more.
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and, ah, by having Aides one, one normalises things, because there's someone, someone whose doing it, and has done it wrong or... [laughs] [Selina Samuels] Well you also got your cat-, different caterers in. Kate, and... [Mrs Samuels] That's right, we had the cat-, Katie, and, ah, by having Aides one, one normalises things, because there's someone, someone whose doing it, and has done it wrong or... [laughs] [Selina Samuels] Well you also got your cat-, different caterers in. Kate, and... [Mrs Samuels] That's right, we had the cat-, Katie,
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we had caterers, it wasn't Government - we didn't use the Government House kitchen. we had caterers, it wasn't Government - we didn't use the Government House kitchen.
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[Roslyn] And there was Trish. You mentioned Trish at one point, caterer. [Selina Samuels] Trish was Daddy's um, um, sort of, in-house, sort of, she did the catering in the office, [Roslyn] And there was Trish. You mentioned Trish at one point, caterer. [Selina Samuels] Trish was Daddy's um, um, sort of, in-house, sort of, she did the catering in the office,
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becase of course the office wasn't at Government House. [Roslyn] The office for... [Selina Samuels] Governor's Office. [Roslyn] Was not at Government House? [Mrs Samuels] No. becase of course the office wasn't at Government House. [Roslyn] The office for... [Selina Samuels] Governor's Office. [Roslyn] Was not at Government House? [Mrs Samuels] No.
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[Selina Samuels] It was in the old State, um, yes, whatever, I can't remember what it was called. [Roslyn] That's right, yes. [Selina Samuels] So he had, Daddy had his offices, and the, and the staff offices. So Brian's office and Margaret's office and all of that was [Selina Samuels] It was in the old State, um, yes, whatever, I can't remember what it was called. [Roslyn] That's right, yes. [Selina Samuels] So he had, Daddy had his offices, and the, and the staff offices. So Brian's office and Margaret's office and all of that was
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across the road. [Roslyn] In the Colonial Secretary's building was it? [Selina Samuels] That's right. And, and Trish was across the road. [Roslyn] In the Colonial Secretary's building was it? [Selina Samuels] That's right. And, and Trish was
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there and looked after, the, the running of those, that office. [Mrs Samuels] That's right, the morning coffees and the... [Selina Samuels] And lunch and that sort of thing. [Roslyn] Did you have a room in that suite of offices yourself? there and looked after, the, the running of those, that office. [Mrs Samuels] That's right, the morning coffees and the... [Selina Samuels] And lunch and that sort of thing. [Roslyn] Did you have a room in that suite of offices yourself?
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So you managed everything else from home? [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I don't remember having an office in town. [Selina Samuels] You didn't no. You had your office in, um, well we had her own office at home at Bronte. [Roslyn] So, you were, you were very much trendsetters, very much setting So you managed everything else from home? [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I don't remember having an office in town. [Selina Samuels] You didn't no. You had your office in, um, well we had her own office at home at Bronte. [Roslyn] So, you were, you were very much trendsetters, very much setting
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new ground for the role of Governor. [Mrs Samuels] Well that was right, and that new ground for the role of Governor. [Mrs Samuels] Well that was right, and that
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we were chosen I think because it was a terri-, terrific shock to very formal, sort of, Royalists. [buzzing noise] I don't know what that noise is? [Roslyn] We'll just pause Mrs Samuels, we were chosen I think because it was a terri-, terrific shock to very formal, sort of, Royalists. [buzzing noise] I don't know what that noise is? [Roslyn] We'll just pause Mrs Samuels,
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while your neighbour finishes gardening. But just returning to, to your role as the Governor's wife and, and the lead up to that, you had 20 while your neighbour finishes gardening. But just returning to, to your role as the Governor's wife and, and the lead up to that, you had 20
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years as the wife of a Chancellor of the University of New South Wales. [Mrs Samuels] That was very valuable, really, because I got terribly used to standing, and, while years as the wife of a Chancellor of the University of New South Wales. [Mrs Samuels] That was very valuable, really, because I got terribly used to standing, and, while
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people made inane speeches, and, and shaking hands with lots of people. I mean it was very much people made inane speeches, and, and shaking hands with lots of people. I mean it was very much
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the same role. Um, and in a way I suppose that's one of the reasons why Gordon was such a choice because he, he'd been doing Chancellorship. ??? Um, and it's very much the same sort of role really, it was then. [Roslyn] Did you enjoy that the same role. Um, and in a way I suppose that's one of the reasons why Gordon was such a choice because he, he'd been doing Chancellorship. ??? Um, and it's very much the same sort of role really, it was then. [Roslyn] Did you enjoy that
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role? [Mrs Samuels] Well I liked being part of the University, and I still am, you know, and both my daughters work there. [Selina Samuels] Well, one works there, role? [Mrs Samuels] Well I liked being part of the University, and I still am, you know, and both my daughters work there. [Selina Samuels] Well, one works there,
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I used to work there. [Mrs Samuels] Yes. [Selina Samuels] Yes. [Roslyn] So you've maintained those associations? [Mrs Samuels] Well it's there and the name, I used to work there. [Mrs Samuels] Yes. [Selina Samuels] Yes. [Roslyn] So you've maintained those associations? [Mrs Samuels] Well it's there and the name,
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the building called the Samuels building. I mean, we still feel part, I still feel part of the University. Because we were very early there too, it was very new. [Selina Samuels] Do you have an honorary degree from there? [Mrs Samuels] I have an honorary degree. I have the building called the Samuels building. I mean, we still feel part, I still feel part of the University. Because we were very early there too, it was very new. [Selina Samuels] Do you have an honorary degree from there? [Mrs Samuels] I have an honorary degree. I have
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a doctorate from the University. [Roslyn] And you refer to that in, in colloquial terms as a Doctorate of Clapping. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, that's a doctorate from the University. [Roslyn] And you refer to that in, in colloquial terms as a Doctorate of Clapping. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, that's
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right. [laughter] That's right. You, you clap a lot for an honorary degree, and a lot for a DA, but for a BA you only do about four claps. [laughter] [Roslyn] Do you know I interviewed Lady right. [laughter] That's right. You, you clap a lot for an honorary degree, and a lot for a DA, but for a BA you only do about four claps. [laughter] [Roslyn] Do you know I interviewed Lady
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Martin a week ago, and I asked her about the investitures and what was her role, and she just said, "Clapping". So thats, perhaps Martin a week ago, and I asked her about the investitures and what was her role, and she just said, "Clapping". So thats, perhaps
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that's a requirement for the job. [Mrs Samuels] That's right [chuckles]. [Roslyn] But when you spoke also about your, your, um, the occasion of the opening of the building out at UNSW, that's a requirement for the job. [Mrs Samuels] That's right [chuckles]. [Roslyn] But when you spoke also about your, your, um, the occasion of the opening of the building out at UNSW,
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you said, you talked about performance, and that being part of the role as the wife of a Chancellor as well as the wife of the Governor, you said, you talked about performance, and that being part of the role as the wife of a Chancellor as well as the wife of the Governor,
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and you wanted to have your speech too. [Mrs Samuels] Did I? [Roslyn] Do you remember that? [Mrs Samuels] No. [Roslyn] And then at the time when, ah, Mr Samuels retired from being Governor, and you wanted to have your speech too. [Mrs Samuels] Did I? [Roslyn] Do you remember that? [Mrs Samuels] No. [Roslyn] And then at the time when, ah, Mr Samuels retired from being Governor,
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there was a, a farewell speech that he gave, and you said you wanted to give yours too. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I think I remember that, yes. [Roslyn] Do you remember the occasion? there was a, a farewell speech that he gave, and you said you wanted to give yours too. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I think I remember that, yes. [Roslyn] Do you remember the occasion?
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[Mrs Samuels] Not very well, no. [Roslyn] Because there was a very grand Parliamentary dinner and then the State dinner as well. I'm just not sure which one of those.... [Mrs Samuels] Perhaps, perhaps I was drunk! [Selina Samuels] You were not drunk. [Mrs Samuels] Not very well, no. [Roslyn] Because there was a very grand Parliamentary dinner and then the State dinner as well. I'm just not sure which one of those.... [Mrs Samuels] Perhaps, perhaps I was drunk! [Selina Samuels] You were not drunk.
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[Roslyn] There must have been so many of those. [Selina Samuels] I, I was there. I think it was the State dinner, when she, but certainly she spoke, yes. [Roslyn] And of course you had your career before you came to Government House, on the stage, from a [Roslyn] There must have been so many of those. [Selina Samuels] I, I was there. I think it was the State dinner, when she, but certainly she spoke, yes. [Roslyn] And of course you had your career before you came to Government House, on the stage, from a
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very early age. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I was a professional actress, gosh from the time I left the University, so, off and on, of course, one's never a professional actress very early age. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I was a professional actress, gosh from the time I left the University, so, off and on, of course, one's never a professional actress
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all the time. [laughter] Ah, but I was I suppose, I, that was my aim, and that's when I went to England and, um, tried to keep my head above water there, and, and I all the time. [laughter] Ah, but I was I suppose, I, that was my aim, and that's when I went to England and, um, tried to keep my head above water there, and, and I
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had done quite a lot of, um, professional acting. [Roslyn] It intrigues me as, as a non-actor how when you stand in front of the CWA women, had done quite a lot of, um, professional acting. [Roslyn] It intrigues me as, as a non-actor how when you stand in front of the CWA women,
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for example, that you're kind of momentarily, um, disconcerted by performing in front of them, when for example, that you're kind of momentarily, um, disconcerted by performing in front of them, when
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your performance is your life. [Mrs Samuels] Well it's a different thing you're doing. Um, when you're, when you're performing for, for the theatre, your performance is your life. [Mrs Samuels] Well it's a different thing you're doing. Um, when you're, when you're performing for, for the theatre,
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you are a different person, because you're playing a character. But when you're doing it, just standing up and making a speech as you, and, ah, you are a different person, because you're playing a character. But when you're doing it, just standing up and making a speech as you, and, ah,
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you're much more vulnerable. I think, I think that's the answer to that. [Roslyn] Did you write your own speeches after that? [Mrs Samuels] Yes, always. [Roslyn] That must have taken a fair bit of time and preparation. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, um, I don't think I used the staff to make you're much more vulnerable. I think, I think that's the answer to that. [Roslyn] Did you write your own speeches after that? [Mrs Samuels] Yes, always. [Roslyn] That must have taken a fair bit of time and preparation. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, um, I don't think I used the staff to make
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speeches, no, I think I always made my own speeches. But then I didn't have an enormous speaking role, because the Governor's wife just has to wear a hat! [laughter] And speeches, no, I think I always made my own speeches. But then I didn't have an enormous speaking role, because the Governor's wife just has to wear a hat! [laughter] And
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smile [laughter] smile [laughter]
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And they don't have to say anything important, so you don't have to have your speeches vetted or anything. You just say pleasant things and how lovely the town looks and, um, how charming they all are, those sort of things. [Roslyn] I have to ask you, did you have a hat before And they don't have to say anything important, so you don't have to have your speeches vetted or anything. You just say pleasant things and how lovely the town looks and, um, how charming they all are, those sort of things. [Roslyn] I have to ask you, did you have a hat before
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you became, before you went to Government House? [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I used to have a hat for the University too, because I used to wear a hat at investitures, and, ah, you became, before you went to Government House? [Mrs Samuels] Yes, I used to have a hat for the University too, because I used to wear a hat at investitures, and, ah,
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I think. [Selina Samuels] In the early days. [Mrs Samuels] In the early days, yes, at the University. [Roslyn] So when you say you that didn't have anything really to do, I think. [Selina Samuels] In the early days. [Mrs Samuels] In the early days, yes, at the University. [Roslyn] So when you say you that didn't have anything really to do,
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did you - well I'm not quite sure that's quite right, or I've interpreted it correctly - forgive me. But, but your role wasn't, ah, the, the Governor's role was pre-eminent. [Mrs Samuels] Oh yes. [Roslyn] But, but, could he did you - well I'm not quite sure that's quite right, or I've interpreted it correctly - forgive me. But, but your role wasn't, ah, the, the Governor's role was pre-eminent. [Mrs Samuels] Oh yes. [Roslyn] But, but, could he
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have done the role without you? [Mrs Samuels] Well I'd say, no, but he'd probably have said yes. [laughter] [Selina Samuels] Oh no he wouldn't! [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] Um, well it's, it was a sort of dual role and, and the fortunate thing is we both had a sort of sense have done the role without you? [Mrs Samuels] Well I'd say, no, but he'd probably have said yes. [laughter] [Selina Samuels] Oh no he wouldn't! [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] Um, well it's, it was a sort of dual role and, and the fortunate thing is we both had a sort of sense
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of humour so we could share a joke without having to actually articulate it. Um, which of course is a bit dangerous, if you get the giggles. But... [Selina Samuels] But, ah, the best joke of all was. of course, of humour so we could share a joke without having to actually articulate it. Um, which of course is a bit dangerous, if you get the giggles. But... [Selina Samuels] But, ah, the best joke of all was. of course,
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the National Anthem, which we used to make, this "girt by sea". Daddy would always say, the National Anthem, which we used to make, this "girt by sea". Daddy would always say,
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"Who is Gert Bycee?" Mrs Bycee he'd often refer to her as. And the danger is then, once that's a family joke, that pre-dated Government House days, I have to say, but then "Who is Gert Bycee?" Mrs Bycee he'd often refer to her as. And the danger is then, once that's a family joke, that pre-dated Government House days, I have to say, but then
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of course, of course,
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when you were listening to it all the time, it was - I, I still can't listen to it without hearing him say. "Who IS Gert Bycee?" [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] Gert Bycee. Mrs Bycee. [Selina Samuels] Yes, who is Mrs Bycee? [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] Lady Bycee.[chuckles] [Roslyn] The other big part of your role was your patronage. You were patron of 35 charities. when you were listening to it all the time, it was - I, I still can't listen to it without hearing him say. "Who IS Gert Bycee?" [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] Gert Bycee. Mrs Bycee. [Selina Samuels] Yes, who is Mrs Bycee? [laughter] [Mrs Samuels] Lady Bycee.[chuckles] [Roslyn] The other big part of your role was your patronage. You were patron of 35 charities.
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Now that's the thing that took up all the time really. Because you didn't have to do anything much, except to be there at, at their annual meetings or their annual dinners, Now that's the thing that took up all the time really. Because you didn't have to do anything much, except to be there at, at their annual meetings or their annual dinners,
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and it was your, just your presence that and it was your, just your presence that
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they wanted. And, and they wanted to put your name on, on the top of their correspondence. Um, and that was really part of it. I mean, Royal patronage is something that people prize terribly, and we were in effect the Royal, the Royal Patrons. [Roslyn] Were there they wanted. And, and they wanted to put your name on, on the top of their correspondence. Um, and that was really part of it. I mean, Royal patronage is something that people prize terribly, and we were in effect the Royal, the Royal Patrons. [Roslyn] Were there
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particular organisations that were, you favoured more than others? [Mrs Samuels] There was sort of history, a lot of it was history. particular organisations that were, you favoured more than others? [Mrs Samuels] There was sort of history, a lot of it was history.
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The Queen invested someone before that one, and The Queen invested someone before that one, and
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after that one, and, ah, it was, it was all to do with, um... [Selina Samuels] Where there any of those that you felt particularly, um, affectionate about, or... [Mrs Samuels] Country Women's Association. [laughter] [Selina Samuels] Other than them! [laughter] Were there any that were particularly important? after that one, and, ah, it was, it was all to do with, um... [Selina Samuels] Where there any of those that you felt particularly, um, affectionate about, or... [Mrs Samuels] Country Women's Association. [laughter] [Selina Samuels] Other than them! [laughter] Were there any that were particularly important?
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[Mrs Samuels] Not really, no. Not so much, because I didn't have a sort of life of my own at all. [Selina Samuels] [indistinct] Royal Hospital for Women. [Mrs Samuels] Ah, yes dear, you're quite right. The Royal Hospital for Women was, ah, I've got a feeling... [Selina Samuels] You could continue that patronage after... [Mrs Samuels] I have a funny feeling that I'm still on their letterhead as their patron. [Selina Samuels] Possibly. [Roslyn] Why did you enjoy that role so much? [Mrs Samuels] Because they, it was so, [Mrs Samuels] Not really, no. Not so much, because I didn't have a sort of life of my own at all. [Selina Samuels] [indistinct] Royal Hospital for Women. [Mrs Samuels] Ah, yes dear, you're quite right. The Royal Hospital for Women was, ah, I've got a feeling... [Selina Samuels] You could continue that patronage after... [Mrs Samuels] I have a funny feeling that I'm still on their letterhead as their patron. [Selina Samuels] Possibly. [Roslyn] Why did you enjoy that role so much? [Mrs Samuels] Because they, it was so,
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so in need of it, they, they were, the, both the Country Women's Association and the Royal Hospital for Women. The Royal Hospital for Women was on, almost on my doorstep, of course, it was so in need of it, they, they were, the, both the Country Women's Association and the Royal Hospital for Women. The Royal Hospital for Women was on, almost on my doorstep, of course, it was
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on the campus, on the campus,
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and they, they were the most worthy sort of ones I could think of. I mean, who... [Selina Samuels] You did a lot, you were very involved as Chair of the Board after you, after Daddy stopped being Governor. and they, they were the most worthy sort of ones I could think of. I mean, who... [Selina Samuels] You did a lot, you were very involved as Chair of the Board after you, after Daddy stopped being Governor.
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And raised a lot of money for, for equipment for the babies. [Mrs Samuels] Hospital, yes. [Roslyn] So, it seems evident that the role of patron for those organisations brings lustre to those And raised a lot of money for, for equipment for the babies. [Mrs Samuels] Hospital, yes. [Roslyn] So, it seems evident that the role of patron for those organisations brings lustre to those
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organisations. [Mrs Samuels] I think it makes them feel good, so they, they're really being appreciated, you know, and, ah, yes. organisations. [Mrs Samuels] I think it makes them feel good, so they, they're really being appreciated, you know, and, ah, yes.
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[Roslyn] Did you have a routine of the same groups every year at a particular time? [Mrs Samuels] Well, it depended when they asked us. They didn't always ask us, [laughs] I suppose. No, it was [Roslyn] Did you have a routine of the same groups every year at a particular time? [Mrs Samuels] Well, it depended when they asked us. They didn't always ask us, [laughs] I suppose. No, it was
30:47

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just by chance, but, but usually it was in rotation, ah, because annual, ah, meetings would be at different times. And, um, no, I suppose you're right, the Royal Hospital for Women was constantly... [Roslyn] You also had a lovely just by chance, but, but usually it was in rotation, ah, because annual, ah, meetings would be at different times. And, um, no, I suppose you're right, the Royal Hospital for Women was constantly... [Roslyn] You also had a lovely
31:08

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Mrs Samuels, where you were talking about going to an event, and you really had to work the room, Mrs Samuels, where you were talking about going to an event, and you really had to work the room,
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and I think, I don't know if it was you or, or Mr Samuels who said, "There's no free dinners. You have to work on those occasions." Is that your recollection? [Mrs Samuels] Oh yes, one worked all the time. And the and I think, I don't know if it was you or, or Mr Samuels who said, "There's no free dinners. You have to work on those occasions." Is that your recollection? [Mrs Samuels] Oh yes, one worked all the time. And the
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awful thing is, you could, I could never remember people's name. You know you meet a President of some organisation and they'd, you'd meet them a few times and you can't remember their names or what the organisation is. That's when you needed an Aide right at your shoulder. awful thing is, you could, I could never remember people's name. You know you meet a President of some organisation and they'd, you'd meet them a few times and you can't remember their names or what the organisation is. That's when you needed an Aide right at your shoulder.
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We had an Aide who was very good at that, and I can't remember his name. [Roslyn] I think that's their first requirement almost isn't it. [Mrs Samuels] Yes. [Roslyn] And what about occasions like, ah, Anzac Day, do you remember those in particular? [Mrs Samuels] Yes. We'd We had an Aide who was very good at that, and I can't remember his name. [Roslyn] I think that's their first requirement almost isn't it. [Mrs Samuels] Yes. [Roslyn] And what about occasions like, ah, Anzac Day, do you remember those in particular? [Mrs Samuels] Yes. We'd
32:04

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be up at practically midnight, um, and we'd, ah, spend the day. Gordon had to always parade. Ah, and it was the whole day really from 4 o'clock in the morning more or less, ah, when we would be out at, down at, um, the Cenotaph. That's right. With a hat. [laughter] [Selina Samuels] It was cold often even with a hat. [Roslyn] I want to know be up at practically midnight, um, and we'd, ah, spend the day. Gordon had to always parade. Ah, and it was the whole day really from 4 o'clock in the morning more or less, ah, when we would be out at, down at, um, the Cenotaph. That's right. With a hat. [laughter] [Selina Samuels] It was cold often even with a hat. [Roslyn] I want to know
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do you still have a hat? [laughter] [Selina Samuels] You've got two somewhere. [Mrs Samuels] I've got, I've got a few, tucked away [chuckles]. [Roslyn] But there must have been days when you were going from one event to the next and then an evening function, when do you still have a hat? [laughter] [Selina Samuels] You've got two somewhere. [Mrs Samuels] I've got, I've got a few, tucked away [chuckles]. [Roslyn] But there must have been days when you were going from one event to the next and then an evening function, when
32:48

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you must have been pooped at the end of the day. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, that didn't happen very often because we were fairly careful, um, sort of accepting invitations that weren't too difficult. But certainly you might have two things in a day. She was married from you must have been pooped at the end of the day. [Mrs Samuels] Yes, that didn't happen very often because we were fairly careful, um, sort of accepting invitations that weren't too difficult. But certainly you might have two things in a day. She was married from
33:11

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Government House [laughs]. Um.... [Roslyn] And you had the reception nearby? [Mrs Samuels] In, yes in the reception centre near, right near the, ah, gates at Government House., Um, but we didn't have the wedding - did we have the reception at? [Selina Samuels] No, we had the ceremony near the fountain. [Mrs Samuels] On the lawn, near the fountain, that's right. We were glad it was a nice day. Government House [laughs]. Um.... [Roslyn] And you had the reception nearby? [Mrs Samuels] In, yes in the reception centre near, right near the, ah, gates at Government House., Um, but we didn't have the wedding - did we have the reception at? [Selina Samuels] No, we had the ceremony near the fountain. [Mrs Samuels] On the lawn, near the fountain, that's right. We were glad it was a nice day.
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[Selina Samuels] Yes, yes, stalk out later.[laughter] [Roslyn] So what aspects of your role as the Governor's wife did enjoy most? [Mrs Samuels] Oh, well I suppose I enjoyed the sort of the ability to, to see the, so many people and things in the [Selina Samuels] Yes, yes, stalk out later.[laughter] [Roslyn] So what aspects of your role as the Governor's wife did enjoy most? [Mrs Samuels] Oh, well I suppose I enjoyed the sort of the ability to, to see the, so many people and things in the
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State, that one never notices usually. The, the sort of, the role of the, the voluntary organisations, and, um, I don't know. [Roslyn] That's, that's takes care of it all. Were you involved in redecorating Government House. State, that one never notices usually. The, the sort of, the role of the, the voluntary organisations, and, um, I don't know. [Roslyn] That's, that's takes care of it all. Were you involved in redecorating Government House.
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that happened? [Mrs Samuels] That's right, but that didn't happen, when I, when we were, that qa, that was way after us, I think. Um, no, I had no, er, Government House has a sort of, a home Architect I think, I'm that happened? [Mrs Samuels] That's right, but that didn't happen, when I, when we were, that qa, that was way after us, I think. Um, no, I had no, er, Government House has a sort of, a home Architect I think, I'm
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not sure. [chuckles I'm not sure how, how it all happened. [Roslyn] You weren't involved in... [Mrs Samuels] No, I wasn't involved at all. [Roslyn] in carpets and curtains and so on. [Mrs Samuels] No. [Roslyn] So how did you feel, just as we wind up, how did you feel not sure. [chuckles I'm not sure how, how it all happened. [Roslyn] You weren't involved in... [Mrs Samuels] No, I wasn't involved at all. [Roslyn] in carpets and curtains and so on. [Mrs Samuels] No. [Roslyn] So how did you feel, just as we wind up, how did you feel
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when your term was coming to an end? [Mrs Samuels] I felt delighted really, when your term was coming to an end? [Mrs Samuels] I felt delighted really,
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I think. Um, I mean I'd enjoyed it. It was a most interesting experience. And, and I had, I was aware of the, sort of, you know, contribution that it makes, that, that sort of particular role makes, um, because I think. Um, I mean I'd enjoyed it. It was a most interesting experience. And, and I had, I was aware of the, sort of, you know, contribution that it makes, that, that sort of particular role makes, um, because
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people feel blessed as you, you come to people feel blessed as you, you come to
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their town, and, ah, or, or you come to their meeting. And, ah, and so I should be grateful that I had that opportunity. Well I am grateful, um, it was, it was very rewarding. [Roslyn] And relinquishing your patronages? [Mrs Samuels] Doesn't mean a thing. [Roslyn] Is there any particular their town, and, ah, or, or you come to their meeting. And, ah, and so I should be grateful that I had that opportunity. Well I am grateful, um, it was, it was very rewarding. [Roslyn] And relinquishing your patronages? [Mrs Samuels] Doesn't mean a thing. [Roslyn] Is there any particular
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part of the role that gave you the greatest personal satisfaction? [Mrs Samuels] [chuckles] Can't thing of anything, not even something funny. [laughter] [Roslyn] And you've included some of these recollections, Mrs Samuels, in part of the role that gave you the greatest personal satisfaction? [Mrs Samuels] [chuckles] Can't thing of anything, not even something funny. [laughter] [Roslyn] And you've included some of these recollections, Mrs Samuels, in
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your lovely memoir, called 'A Questionable Life'. [Mrs Samuels] Do you know why it's called 'A Questionable Life'? [Roslyn] I'd like you to tell me. [Mrs Samuels] Well, when Selina your lovely memoir, called 'A Questionable Life'. [Mrs Samuels] Do you know why it's called 'A Questionable Life'? [Roslyn] I'd like you to tell me. [Mrs Samuels] Well, when Selina
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was little, I used to pick her up from school sometimes. And I would sort of say, "And how was your day today today, darling?" And her reply was, "Questionable."[laughs] [Roslyn] It's a big word for a little girl. [Mrs Samuels] That's right. [laughs] And it always seemed to me a very was little, I used to pick her up from school sometimes. And I would sort of say, "And how was your day today today, darling?" And her reply was, "Questionable."[laughs] [Roslyn] It's a big word for a little girl. [Mrs Samuels] That's right. [laughs] And it always seemed to me a very
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appropriate word, for life. [laughter] [Roslyn] Well I think that's a lovely note to end the session on. Thank you very much. [Mrs Samuels] Well I remembered more than I thought I would. [Selina Samuels] Well there you are. appropriate word, for life. [laughter] [Roslyn] Well I think that's a lovely note to end the session on. Thank you very much. [Mrs Samuels] Well I remembered more than I thought I would. [Selina Samuels] Well there you are.