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My name is Martin Portus My name is Martin Portus
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and I'm interviewing the Sydney-based said designer Michael Scott-Mitchell on the second of May two thousand and I'm interviewing the Sydney-based said designer Michael Scott-Mitchell on the second of May two thousand
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and seventeen in the studio of the Redfern Community Centre in Sydney. This oral history interview is being conducted for and seventeen in the studio of the Redfern Community Centre in Sydney. This oral history interview is being conducted for
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the State Library of New South Wales Oral History collection. the State Library of New South Wales Oral History collection.
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Michael has an exceptionally broad experience as a designer, working with performing arts companies around Australia, Michael has an exceptionally broad experience as a designer, working with performing arts companies around Australia,
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notably the Sydney Theatre Company, prolific in theatre, opera, musicals, big event and venue design notably the Sydney Theatre Company, prolific in theatre, opera, musicals, big event and venue design
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and as an educator, currently Deputy Director of NIDA, and as an educator, currently Deputy Director of NIDA,
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all of which we will get to. Michael thanks for sharing your story with us. all of which we will get to. Michael thanks for sharing your story with us.
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A pleasure. Tell us about your childhood A pleasure. Tell us about your childhood
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and your family, where it began. Right, well I guess I was blessed by having some very peculiar parents, peculiar in the sense and your family, where it began. Right, well I guess I was blessed by having some very peculiar parents, peculiar in the sense
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that they each had their own very particular life journey and that they each had their own very particular life journey and
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I guess my mother in particular had found her way through her family into the exclusive Brethren, I guess my mother in particular had found her way through her family into the exclusive Brethren,
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which was due to the fact that my grandfather, Claude, who was in the first Sydney Symphony as a French horn player went deaf which was due to the fact that my grandfather, Claude, who was in the first Sydney Symphony as a French horn player went deaf
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and decided that the best way of getting around that was to start examining and exploring different religions as you do, and decided that the best way of getting around that was to start examining and exploring different religions as you do,
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and from music to religion and so he somehow or other the family found themselves in the exclusives and from music to religion and so he somehow or other the family found themselves in the exclusives
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and I say peculiar because my mother's journey from that point was fairly exceptional in that she was a very intelligent and I say peculiar because my mother's journey from that point was fairly exceptional in that she was a very intelligent
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woman whose passion was broadly speaking the arts and there was no way she was going woman whose passion was broadly speaking the arts and there was no way she was going
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and spend her life only reading the Bible and only playing hymns, so at the age of sixteen. and spend her life only reading the Bible and only playing hymns, so at the age of sixteen.
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her parents decided they would smuggle her out of Australia her parents decided they would smuggle her out of Australia
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and because it was smuggling, because they were excommunicated, and because it was smuggling, because they were excommunicated,
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and send her to my father's family who were Brethren in the UK, in London, and so at the tender age sixteen and send her to my father's family who were Brethren in the UK, in London, and so at the tender age sixteen
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she was shipped off to the UK, met the family that eventually became her other family she was shipped off to the UK, met the family that eventually became her other family
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and my father of course was there and so for the first six months of the time in the UK and my father of course was there and so for the first six months of the time in the UK
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they had a exclusive Brethren placarding outside the gates of the house saying they had a exclusive Brethren placarding outside the gates of the house saying
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saying 'You will burn in Hell'. Which for a 16 year old would have been something to deal with. [interviewer] But your father's saying 'You will burn in Hell'. Which for a 16 year old would have been something to deal with. [interviewer] But your father's
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family were Exclusive Brethren too. [Mitchell] No they were Brethren. family were Exclusive Brethren too. [Mitchell] No they were Brethren.
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not exclusive, oh [Michael], there is a difference [laughter], actually quite a profound difference. So Brethren in the UK meant that my not exclusive, oh [Michael], there is a difference [laughter], actually quite a profound difference. So Brethren in the UK meant that my
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grandfather my father 's father was a lay preacher and he moves on weekends up and down the UK preaching grandfather my father 's father was a lay preacher and he moves on weekends up and down the UK preaching
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and I guess I'm saying all this because those foundations of a very passionate engagement with religion had a really and I guess I'm saying all this because those foundations of a very passionate engagement with religion had a really
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profound spinoff because again going back to my mother, Clare, she fought against that, she had a passion for things spiritual profound spinoff because again going back to my mother, Clare, she fought against that, she had a passion for things spiritual
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but she wasn't going to be tied down intellectually, and so that grit in the in the pearl but she wasn't going to be tied down intellectually, and so that grit in the in the pearl
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if you like sent her on a lifetime of exploration of the arts, and in particular, literature and music if you like sent her on a lifetime of exploration of the arts, and in particular, literature and music
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and so we were instilled as children with the notion that the most important thing in life is art and so we were instilled as children with the notion that the most important thing in life is art
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and that you do anything to sacrifice, you will sacrifice anything for the sake of art. Not God? [Martin] and that you do anything to sacrifice, you will sacrifice anything for the sake of art. Not God? [Martin]
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No not, well God has his place or her place, but anyway, ah so and No not, well God has his place or her place, but anyway, ah so and
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I guess what I observed as a child was particularly my mother, I guess what I observed as a child was particularly my mother,
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but my father as well I guess, but particularly my mother gradually processing religion and extracting herself more but my father as well I guess, but particularly my mother gradually processing religion and extracting herself more
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and more from it in the probably the mid- sixties and more from it in the probably the mid- sixties
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She had a program on Channel ten called on the line, She had a program on Channel ten called on the line,
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would ring in with your religious questions on Sunday mornings. I remember her coming home with very thick pancake would ring in with your religious questions on Sunday mornings. I remember her coming home with very thick pancake
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makeup on Sundays and she was, she essentially moved across to high Church of England makeup on Sundays and she was, she essentially moved across to high Church of England
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and befriended you know many a Bishop and whatever and they were and befriended you know many a Bishop and whatever and they were
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all part of our, my early childhood I guess up to the age of six or seven all part of our, my early childhood I guess up to the age of six or seven
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and then, then we had the fire, well the fire was, my grandfather had started the company in Marrickville which is where I now live, very close to the and then, then we had the fire, well the fire was, my grandfather had started the company in Marrickville which is where I now live, very close to the
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site of that factory which actually just by the by is where Ralph Myers first lived when he was at NIDA. The site that was site of that factory which actually just by the by is where Ralph Myers first lived when he was at NIDA. The site that was
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my grandfather's factory. The designer who went on to be artistic designer of Belvoir. Yes. my grandfather's factory. The designer who went on to be artistic designer of Belvoir. Yes.
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In fact I don't think I've ever told him that but there you go. So in nineteen sixty nine the In fact I don't think I've ever told him that but there you go. So in nineteen sixty nine the
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the family company which was called CRO, Claude Robert Ogden Furniture, burnt to the ground ironically the family company which was called CRO, Claude Robert Ogden Furniture, burnt to the ground ironically
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Ironically, because they were fixing the sprinkler system and that threw the family into a spin Ironically, because they were fixing the sprinkler system and that threw the family into a spin
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It had become the largest manufacturer of furniture in Australia and was responsible for amongst other things It had become the largest manufacturer of furniture in Australia and was responsible for amongst other things
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Other things the this map of Australia desk on the map of the world desk in and they are the biggest manufacturer in Other things the this map of Australia desk on the map of the world desk in and they are the biggest manufacturer in
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and actually a very large group of employees... in fact in that site in Marrickville there were 350 men mainly working and actually a very large group of employees... in fact in that site in Marrickville there were 350 men mainly working
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the factory and when it burnt to the ground they, they being my uncle and my mother, and my the factory and when it burnt to the ground they, they being my uncle and my mother, and my
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father decided that they would continue to pay the men for a year while they rebuilt and you know sixty nine was, there was not a lot father decided that they would continue to pay the men for a year while they rebuilt and you know sixty nine was, there was not a lot
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of benefit schemes around and so to take that, I mean I now look at it of benefit schemes around and so to take that, I mean I now look at it
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living as a pauper as I do, that in nineteen sixty nine they were given three and a half living as a pauper as I do, that in nineteen sixty nine they were given three and a half
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million dollars in insurance money. Well you could buy a house for twenty to forty thousand. million dollars in insurance money. Well you could buy a house for twenty to forty thousand.
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I mean that was a hell of a lot of money. So they spent that rebuilding I mean that was a hell of a lot of money. So they spent that rebuilding
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and maintaining a salary to the men who were all their employees and maintaining a salary to the men who were all their employees
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and again I think that had come out of a whole philosophical position, particularly of my grandfather and again I think that had come out of a whole philosophical position, particularly of my grandfather
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who would give a tithe of his profits and his income to the church who would give a tithe of his profits and his income to the church
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and I'm pretty sure my grandfather did the same in the UK. So there was a strong tradition of you give back to your community and I'm pretty sure my grandfather did the same in the UK. So there was a strong tradition of you give back to your community
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if you like. So they moved, I think it was about nine, it must have been about nineteen seventy, maybe seventy one that they moved if you like. So they moved, I think it was about nine, it must have been about nineteen seventy, maybe seventy one that they moved
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into the new factory at Warwick Farm which is a vast enterprise into the new factory at Warwick Farm which is a vast enterprise
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and my father had studied architecture in London and my father had studied architecture in London
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and he was lured out to Australia, and my mother was lured out to Australia in nineteen fifty two by my grandfather and he was lured out to Australia, and my mother was lured out to Australia in nineteen fifty two by my grandfather
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who offered my father position in the company, essentially to train him up as a manager of the company who offered my father position in the company, essentially to train him up as a manager of the company
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and interestingly enough, he put my father through the absolute ringer in terms of you know a year in and interestingly enough, he put my father through the absolute ringer in terms of you know a year in
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this department, a year in that department and he had to learn every single aspect of it this department, a year in that department and he had to learn every single aspect of it
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and yet my uncle, Bruce, his son, was not expected to go to university, was given everything on a platter and yet my uncle, Bruce, his son, was not expected to go to university, was given everything on a platter
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wasn't given the same rigour and so in nineteen seventy two when my father wasn't given the same rigour and so in nineteen seventy two when my father
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and mother decided they would sell their shares in the company, which meant that my father also left the company, and mother decided they would sell their shares in the company, which meant that my father also left the company,
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within, I think it was within two and a half years the company was left bankrupt because my uncle was left running it. within, I think it was within two and a half years the company was left bankrupt because my uncle was left running it.
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The men were literally loading furniture on the back of the vans and going off and selling it and The men were literally loading furniture on the back of the vans and going off and selling it and
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They lost millions of dollars very quickly. It went belly up. And so ... and I guess my  They lost millions of dollars very quickly. It went belly up. And so ... and I guess my 
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My father decided that one time to go back to architecture, My father decided that one time to go back to architecture,
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and he ended up running the, he was head of the Government Architect's interior section, so for many years and he ended up running the, he was head of the Government Architect's interior section, so for many years
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he he ended his career doing that, running that section of the Government Architect's. he he ended his career doing that, running that section of the Government Architect's.
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And so it was really later in life And so it was really later in life
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and that would have been, that would have been about '73ish that he went back into that job and that would have been, that would have been about '73ish that he went back into that job
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and I was thirteen by that stage, I never really saw him practising as an architect, and I was thirteen by that stage, I never really saw him practising as an architect,
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although you would think that was a logical influence on me, although you would think that was a logical influence on me,
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although we did live in two houses that he designed which were fabulous houses, so there was certainly that influence although we did live in two houses that he designed which were fabulous houses, so there was certainly that influence
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and he was and he continues to be a painter and you know it's a great passion for him. and he was and he continues to be a painter and you know it's a great passion for him.
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So there was all of that kind of aspect to my father and there was the literary cum musical side to So there was all of that kind of aspect to my father and there was the literary cum musical side to
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My mother in particular. So I had sort of  visual and  oral if you like influence. My mother in particular. So I had sort of  visual and  oral if you like influence.
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In particular, In particular,
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And literature. In fact my mother, around about the same time, returned to teaching at Sydney Kindergarten Teachers' College And literature. In fact my mother, around about the same time, returned to teaching at Sydney Kindergarten Teachers' College
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and she was the head of Children's Literature there. So yeah they were the sort formative things. and she was the head of Children's Literature there. So yeah they were the sort formative things.
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and I guess the thing that happened in 1970 when we moved into the house. and I guess the thing that happened in 1970 when we moved into the house.
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my father designed in in Fox Valley Road in Warrawee, which was a sort of a bush house on a battle axe block, was that we moved in my father designed in in Fox Valley Road in Warrawee, which was a sort of a bush house on a battle axe block, was that we moved in
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next door to a German family and he, Sergei is an architect, he is now well into his nineties, and Yotta next door to a German family and he, Sergei is an architect, he is now well into his nineties, and Yotta
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who was a photographer who'd been a social photographer doing weddings who was a photographer who'd been a social photographer doing weddings
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and she was one of the first people who did, started that process of: this is the story of your wedding day and starting and she was one of the first people who did, started that process of: this is the story of your wedding day and starting
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to film early in the morning and watching the whole preparation. Anyway she to film early in the morning and watching the whole preparation. Anyway she
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They were an extraordinary couple  in that they were German, They were an extraordinary couple  in that they were German,
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but they had travelled extensively through Asia, particularly in Japan, and then later into Papua New Guinea and  but they had travelled extensively through Asia, particularly in Japan, and then later into Papua New Guinea and 
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the Trobriands and a whole series of areas. And so the house was a wonderful response to the Australian bush via a German the Trobriands and a whole series of areas. And so the house was a wonderful response to the Australian bush via a German
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architect's eyes influenced by a Japanese architect. So it was an incredible potpourri of things, but fabulous. architect's eyes influenced by a Japanese architect. So it was an incredible potpourri of things, but fabulous.
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And filled with Papuan New Guinean sculptures, beautiful Japanese paintings, I mean it just And filled with Papuan New Guinean sculptures, beautiful Japanese paintings, I mean it just
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and my eyes just popped. I thought my goodness there's an entire other planet that I haven't you know discovered and and my eyes just popped. I thought my goodness there's an entire other planet that I haven't you know discovered and
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the fact that they had things like a courtyard. They had two bathrooms the fact that they had things like a courtyard. They had two bathrooms
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and both bathrooms fed onto an enclosed courtyard and you could go out in the courtyard and have a shower under the sky you know and think and both bathrooms fed onto an enclosed courtyard and you could go out in the courtyard and have a shower under the sky you know and think
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that's so radical [laughter] that's so radical [laughter]
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but it was beautiful in every sense and particularly including both of them and I became very good but it was beautiful in every sense and particularly including both of them and I became very good
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friends with their children. But it had, it brought in that European influence friends with their children. But it had, it brought in that European influence
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I guess in particular, and a different way of looking at the world I guess in particular, and a different way of looking at the world
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and this has to be put in the context of what I've been talking about before which is this and this has to be put in the context of what I've been talking about before which is this
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This process of my own family, This process of my own family,
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extracting themselves from radical forms of religion, becoming more and more or less and less extreme extracting themselves from radical forms of religion, becoming more and more or less and less extreme
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and gradually by the, I'd say by about '73 they had and gradually by the, I'd say by about '73 they had
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they had completely left the church. So these are guys that you know were very, they had completely left the church. So these are guys that you know were very,
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very influential in the high church all the way through the first decade of my life. But there were a series of very influential in the high church all the way through the first decade of my life. But there were a series of
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intersections I guess intersections I guess
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I guess with my siblings who kept running into the church getting ticked off are things that they would be regarded as I guess with my siblings who kept running into the church getting ticked off are things that they would be regarded as
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absolutely normal. Anyway that was a watershed moment moving into that absolutely normal. Anyway that was a watershed moment moving into that
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Household [Portus] and your siblings were quite accomplished, were they not,  in different types of instruments inspired by your mother?  Household [Portus] and your siblings were quite accomplished, were they not,  in different types of instruments inspired by your mother? 
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I would describe them as all obscenely talented in musical, in every form music. My sister, Anthea, is an extraordinary cellist. I would describe them as all obscenely talented in musical, in every form music. My sister, Anthea, is an extraordinary cellist.
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She was with, oh what are they called, Australian Ensemble, gone out of my head, anyway she She was with, oh what are they called, Australian Ensemble, gone out of my head, anyway she
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married early life, David Pereira, who is another cellist married early life, David Pereira, who is another cellist
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and the two of them were the two lead cellists with, what's it called um [Portus] In Adelaide?  and the two of them were the two lead cellists with, what's it called um [Portus] In Adelaide? 
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[Mitchell] No, in Sydney. Tognetti is the head of it now. [Portus] Australian Chamber Orchestra? [Mitchell] Yes, Australian Chamber Orchestra. [Mitchell] No, in Sydney. Tognetti is the head of it now. [Portus] Australian Chamber Orchestra? [Mitchell] Yes, Australian Chamber Orchestra.
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So they were there with them for quite a while. So they were there with them for quite a while.
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Anthea decided she was going to do additional training in America Anthea decided she was going to do additional training in America
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and so she moved across there. Anyway, long story short ... [Portus] And the other siblings? [Mitchell] Other siblings, my brother, Robert, and so she moved across there. Anyway, long story short ... [Portus] And the other siblings? [Mitchell] Other siblings, my brother, Robert,
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who is a very bright guy who can turn his hand almost to anything but he would describe himself as a musician in a primary who is a very bright guy who can turn his hand almost to anything but he would describe himself as a musician in a primary
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sense sense
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and he basically goes through life learning an instrument, conquering it, giving a concert on the ABC and then moving on to the and he basically goes through life learning an instrument, conquering it, giving a concert on the ABC and then moving on to the
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next instrument so, amazing person from that point of view alone.  But and he's married to Lindy Lee, the painter and so  next instrument so, amazing person from that point of view alone.  But and he's married to Lindy Lee, the painter and so 
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they've recently moved to Byron but he's heavily involved in supporting her they've recently moved to Byron but he's heavily involved in supporting her
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and developing the artwork that she produces. And then Lindsay, and developing the artwork that she produces. And then Lindsay,
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who is the eldest child, is a fantastic viola player. So essentially when I grew up, when we moved in Fox Valley Road, who is the eldest child, is a fantastic viola player. So essentially when I grew up, when we moved in Fox Valley Road,
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there were four bedrooms for  the children there were four bedrooms for  the children
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and in the other three that was a musical instrument being practised every night of my life and, of course, and in the other three that was a musical instrument being practised every night of my life and, of course,
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when I say practice it's not as if they played a tune, it was one phrase over and over and over again. So, but anyway when I say practice it's not as if they played a tune, it was one phrase over and over and over again. So, but anyway
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somehow that, the practical side of music completely escaped me, and in fact we used go, my sister, Anthea, somehow that, the practical side of music completely escaped me, and in fact we used go, my sister, Anthea,
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used to have piano lessons with Miss White, who was a renowned teacher in Sydney and I would go as well used to have piano lessons with Miss White, who was a renowned teacher in Sydney and I would go as well
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and after, I think about six months, Miss White said to my mother, perhaps Michael doesn't need to come back next week. [Laughter] and after, I think about six months, Miss White said to my mother, perhaps Michael doesn't need to come back next week. [Laughter]
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Yes, I think that puts a firm full stop Yes, I think that puts a firm full stop
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On my music, exploration in terms of learning an instrument. [Portus] Was there any connection, On my music, exploration in terms of learning an instrument. [Portus] Was there any connection,
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even if you didn't learn an instrument, between that musical background, that constant presence of it and even if you didn't learn an instrument, between that musical background, that constant presence of it and
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your constant work with the medium of opera? [Mitchell] Well that's why I'm saying a practical application of music because I think I your constant work with the medium of opera? [Mitchell] Well that's why I'm saying a practical application of music because I think I
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absolutely have music in my genes and I respond to music. And in fact Anthea and I have absolutely have music in my genes and I respond to music. And in fact Anthea and I have
16:37

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 long conversations about the the parallels for visual art and music.  long conversations about the the parallels for visual art and music.
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That's in a simplistic sense. That's to do with colour and tone but it's also That's in a simplistic sense. That's to do with colour and tone but it's also
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I think more profoundly about the vibration of things that I might set up visually I think more profoundly about the vibration of things that I might set up visually
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and things that she would play and there is a, yes maths is a part of it but it's pattern and vibration and things that she would play and there is a, yes maths is a part of it but it's pattern and vibration
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and structure that are absolute parallels. And so she can read my designs musically if that makes sense. Well [Martin Portus] and structure that are absolute parallels. And so she can read my designs musically if that makes sense. Well [Martin Portus]
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and she will very quickly. and she will very quickly.
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tell me whether I'm on the right track or not with an opera.Thankfully she thinks I normally am so. You tell me whether I'm on the right track or not with an opera.Thankfully she thinks I normally am so. You
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went to Barker College? [Mitchell] Mmm hmm. [Portus] You had a good teacher there? went to Barker College? [Mitchell] Mmm hmm. [Portus] You had a good teacher there?
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Yes. [Portus] In terms of influence? [Mitchell] Yeah look I did my entire schooling at Barker. I started at five with my oldest friend, Jonathan Yes. [Portus] In terms of influence? [Mitchell] Yeah look I did my entire schooling at Barker. I started at five with my oldest friend, Jonathan
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McAuley who now is in the Opera Australia chorus. So it's kind of McAuley who now is in the Opera Australia chorus. So it's kind of
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bizarre that he is now at singing on the stages that I design. But um needless to say  bizarre that he is now at singing on the stages that I design. But um needless to say 
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sport was not my thing and so I escaped into the library sport was not my thing and so I escaped into the library
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and into drama in particular. And they were really my salvation at that school. But to be fair and into drama in particular. And they were really my salvation at that school. But to be fair
18:03

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to the school Rod Bowey was the initial head of drama and he, he was fabulous. Improvisational classes to the school Rod Bowey was the initial head of drama and he, he was fabulous. Improvisational classes
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It also included in  or invited both Jonathon and myself into productions in our first year of high school It also included in  or invited both Jonathon and myself into productions in our first year of high school
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and it went on from there. And a kind of bizarre jump cut and it went on from there. And a kind of bizarre jump cut
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he ended up becoming a strong collaborator with my mother because he moved to Sydney Kindergarten Teachers College after Barker he ended up becoming a strong collaborator with my mother because he moved to Sydney Kindergarten Teachers College after Barker
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and they teamed up with um with my brain has gone, with Richard Gill, and so Richard and  and they teamed up with um with my brain has gone, with Richard Gill, and so Richard and 
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Rod Bowey and my mother produced a number of records, well in fact they Rod Bowey and my mother produced a number of records, well in fact they
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were tapes which were of children's music that the ABC produced. And then later Richard Gill were tapes which were of children's music that the ABC produced. And then later Richard Gill
19:03

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and my mother went off and wrote two operas together which were commissioned by Grammar School, Oedipus and my mother went off and wrote two operas together which were commissioned by Grammar School, Oedipus
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and Beowolf.  So anyway. [Portus] So Richard Gill went on to become a very busy and Beowolf.  So anyway. [Portus] So Richard Gill went on to become a very busy
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music education, educator and conductor? [Mitchell]  Yes, and very much part of my life music education, educator and conductor? [Mitchell]  Yes, and very much part of my life
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I guess from about the age of ten. So there are fantastic, and we, we in the house in Fox Valley Road I guess from about the age of ten. So there are fantastic, and we, we in the house in Fox Valley Road
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we had, we hosted Musica Viva, a younger group, because we had a very large lounge space and we had, we hosted Musica Viva, a younger group, because we had a very large lounge space and
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so a lot of people moving through that I now know in the profession so a lot of people moving through that I now know in the profession
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but they were all starting in their kind of infancy there. So but they were all starting in their kind of infancy there. So
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and then later umm all of a sudden my brain with names. [Portus] Let me take you to later in terms of you went on to study and then later umm all of a sudden my brain with names. [Portus] Let me take you to later in terms of you went on to study
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architecture? [Mitchell] Yes. [Portus] At Sydney University? [Portus] Why stop after two years? [Mitchell] Well it actually architecture? [Mitchell] Yes. [Portus] At Sydney University? [Portus] Why stop after two years? [Mitchell] Well it actually
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relates the last production I did at school, which was a Shakespeare. I think it was All's Well That Ends Well relates the last production I did at school, which was a Shakespeare. I think it was All's Well That Ends Well
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and it didn't. [Laughter] We, there was a director that shall I just say I didn't get on and it didn't. [Laughter] We, there was a director that shall I just say I didn't get on
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very well with. I had a role that I didn't understand the function of within the play. I thought it was, actually didn't like very well with. I had a role that I didn't understand the function of within the play. I thought it was, actually didn't like
20:36

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the play very much. And so having had actually a pretty terrific acting career through Barker, the highlight of course the play very much. And so having had actually a pretty terrific acting career through Barker, the highlight of course
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being The Common Man and A Man for All Seasons but we got to this Shakespeare being The Common Man and A Man for All Seasons but we got to this Shakespeare
20:51

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and it just didn't gel for me at all. I had been thinking at that point in time that I'd apply for NIDA and it just didn't gel for me at all. I had been thinking at that point in time that I'd apply for NIDA
20:57

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and become an actor, but  it ended not well and that put me off and become an actor, but  it ended not well and that put me off
21:05

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the scent of pursuing acting as a career. Interestingly enough the art department suggested that I design the set for the scent of pursuing acting as a career. Interestingly enough the art department suggested that I design the set for
21:14

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that show, which was pretty minimal but it was a, it was a, when I look back on it that show, which was pretty minimal but it was a, it was a, when I look back on it
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was kind of a foretaste of something that was to come really. And quite good at schedule of acting was kind of a foretaste of something that was to come really. And quite good at schedule of acting
21:28

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at least? It put you on the road to architecture for two years? It did. So anyway look to answer your question I at least? It put you on the road to architecture for two years? It did. So anyway look to answer your question I
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thought well I'm not going to do acting I'll study architecture which I guess enfolds many of my other interests and it's interesting, I thought well I'm not going to do acting I'll study architecture which I guess enfolds many of my other interests and it's interesting, I
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finished my last project, which became my last project for architecture, which was designing a house which I was finished my last project, which became my last project for architecture, which was designing a house which I was
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incredibly proud of and had spent hours and hours and hours and hours producing this model and it was actually quite a sophisticated design, incredibly proud of and had spent hours and hours and hours and hours producing this model and it was actually quite a sophisticated design,
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when I look back on it, but I remember a lecturer yelling down that void space in, it may have changed, when I look back on it, but I remember a lecturer yelling down that void space in, it may have changed,
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but in the architecture faculty, so you could sort of talk to people from the fifth floor, and this lecturer yelled out but in the architecture faculty, so you could sort of talk to people from the fifth floor, and this lecturer yelled out
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of I've just seen your model. of I've just seen your model.
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It's a fabulous design, It's a fabulous design,
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but I think it's more sculpture than architecture. And I thought that is where we part company [laughter] because that's the whole but I think it's more sculpture than architecture. And I thought that is where we part company [laughter] because that's the whole
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point. point.
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Anyway, but luckily I met Robin. And you part company with architecture do you mean? Yes, yes, yes absolutely and Anyway, but luckily I met Robin. And you part company with architecture do you mean? Yes, yes, yes absolutely and
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well, for the time being. So fortuitously I met Robin Lovejoy well, for the time being. So fortuitously I met Robin Lovejoy
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who was teaching an extra curricular course that I took while I was studying architecture. who was teaching an extra curricular course that I took while I was studying architecture.
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And he was the Artistic Director of the Old Tote Company? He had been And he was the Artistic Director of the Old Tote Company? He had been
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and at that point in time he was the head of directing at NIDA and was becoming the head of design and at that point in time he was the head of directing at NIDA and was becoming the head of design
23:02

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and so this subject was called something like the human body in space, or something like that but and so this subject was called something like the human body in space, or something like that but
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essentially it was getting into a room and looking at the dynamics of the space and how you can change the dynamics essentially it was getting into a room and looking at the dynamics of the space and how you can change the dynamics
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and the relationship of a person in that space space to whatever object or thing or piece of fabric or and the relationship of a person in that space space to whatever object or thing or piece of fabric or
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a rope you manipulate in a space. And I thought here is a language that is absolutely me. a rope you manipulate in a space. And I thought here is a language that is absolutely me.
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I'm going for it. So it was the perfect amalgam of the very things that my sister, Anthea, and I I'm going for it. So it was the perfect amalgam of the very things that my sister, Anthea, and I
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and I were talking about about how does a physical object in a space cause a vibration?  Or a dynamic change in that shape and I were talking about about how does a physical object in a space cause a vibration?  Or a dynamic change in that shape
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in that space? And I thought: this is me. [Portus] But a sophisticated way at that time to look at design and not in that space? And I thought: this is me. [Portus] But a sophisticated way at that time to look at design and not
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dismiss it as something decorative, added on to the theatre. [Mitchell] Well, I'm going to jump cut. dismiss it as something decorative, added on to the theatre. [Mitchell] Well, I'm going to jump cut.
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We, my parents later bought Billy Blue's house in North Sydney which the first house, We, my parents later bought Billy Blue's house in North Sydney which the first house,
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the first substantial houses that was built on North Shore ah the first substantial houses that was built on North Shore ah
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and there was a fantastic woman who lived next door to us whose name I forget of course. But she was a devotee of and there was a fantastic woman who lived next door to us whose name I forget of course. But she was a devotee of
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The Ensemble and particularly Hayes Gordon. And she'd stick her head over the fence and say to me, Michael, The Ensemble and particularly Hayes Gordon. And she'd stick her head over the fence and say to me, Michael,
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you still doing that stage decor [laughter] and I thought you still doing that stage decor [laughter] and I thought
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[inaudible] [inaudible]
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I think my epitaph will be stage decor to the stars you know. [laughter] But anyway, no it was. [Portus] But a serious way of looking I think my epitaph will be stage decor to the stars you know. [laughter] But anyway, no it was. [Portus] But a serious way of looking
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at the psychology, the psychological impact of a space. [Mitchell] Yes, absolutely, well yes at the psychology, the psychological impact of a space. [Mitchell] Yes, absolutely, well yes
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yes, and so so I decided to leave architecture. yes, and so so I decided to leave architecture.
24:58

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In fact it was, I think I only did about eighteen months, maybe a little bit more. But my sister, Anthea, at that point in time was with In fact it was, I think I only did about eighteen months, maybe a little bit more. But my sister, Anthea, at that point in time was with
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Santa Cecilia where she was part of that orchestra for twelve years and she would come back once a year, Santa Cecilia where she was part of that orchestra for twelve years and she would come back once a year,
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perhaps twice a year and she, as soon as she got back she clocked that something wasn't gelling. And she just, all she had perhaps twice a year and she, as soon as she got back she clocked that something wasn't gelling. And she just, all she had
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to say was what's not right? And of course I burst into tears to say was what's not right? And of course I burst into tears
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and it was all about realising that I had taken the wrong path.But anyway it set me on a good path and it was all about realising that I had taken the wrong path.But anyway it set me on a good path
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and coincidentally my parents bought the house in Commodore Crescent, Billy Blue's house, and hadn't sold their other house and coincidentally my parents bought the house in Commodore Crescent, Billy Blue's house, and hadn't sold their other house
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and so there was a six-month transition between the sale of one and whatever. So I moved into two Billy Blue's house and so there was a six-month transition between the sale of one and whatever. So I moved into two Billy Blue's house
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with my gramaphone record, my cigar and my, you know my cigars and my whiskey and port and sat there for with my gramaphone record, my cigar and my, you know my cigars and my whiskey and port and sat there for
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I guess it was about four months I guess it was about four months
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and it was the perfect salve for, having been through school, started one course, getting to a kind of watershed moment and and it was the perfect salve for, having been through school, started one course, getting to a kind of watershed moment and
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going just stop. And so a fantastic period and in that time [Portus] A reclusive period? [Mitchell] A reclusive period but I going just stop. And so a fantastic period and in that time [Portus] A reclusive period? [Mitchell] A reclusive period but I
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also...Rod Bowey who as I mentioned by that stage had gone to Sydney Kindergarten Teachers College invited me to also...Rod Bowey who as I mentioned by that stage had gone to Sydney Kindergarten Teachers College invited me to
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do a production of As You Like It. And which was just done in the studio but we have a great fun doing it do a production of As You Like It. And which was just done in the studio but we have a great fun doing it
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and re reinvigorated my passion for theatre and by that stage, my role was as designer of the piece that he was doing. and re reinvigorated my passion for theatre and by that stage, my role was as designer of the piece that he was doing.
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He had a great sense of humour. He had a great sense of humour.
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You know it was actually quite a fun production. And Robin came to see it and this is before I'd actually even applied, You know it was actually quite a fun production. And Robin came to see it and this is before I'd actually even applied,
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but he he insisted that his directors come and see this production but he he insisted that his directors come and see this production
27:18

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and you know the [inaudible]. Well. So that was sort of the kind of feeder I guess and you know the [inaudible]. Well. So that was sort of the kind of feeder I guess
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for me moving across to NIDA which I didn't get into initially. I was on the reject pile, not the reject, for me moving across to NIDA which I didn't get into initially. I was on the reject pile, not the reject,
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the, what do they call it, the waiting list. And of course my mother, who was great mates with Ruth Cracknell, rang Ruth and said oh Ruth the, what do they call it, the waiting list. And of course my mother, who was great mates with Ruth Cracknell, rang Ruth and said oh Ruth
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there's something terribly wrong. Michael's only got on to the you know [laughter] and so Ruth rings there's something terribly wrong. Michael's only got on to the you know [laughter] and so Ruth rings
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John Clark says John, I think this something terribly wrong here John Clark says John, I think this something terribly wrong here
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Michael only seems to have got on to the  Michael only seems to have got on to the 
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so the next day the letter arrives you know. In fact the letter for John Senchuk and he got my letter, so the next day the letter arrives you know. In fact the letter for John Senchuk and he got my letter,
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but anyway we both [Portus] another designer John Senchuk? [Mitchell] yes so we both got in. And really that was total life changing experience but anyway we both [Portus] another designer John Senchuk? [Mitchell] yes so we both got in. And really that was total life changing experience
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Going to that institution [Portus] You did a diploma then in design Going to that institution [Portus] You did a diploma then in design
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[Portus] For 2 years? [Mitchell] 3 years. At that point in time it was a Diploma. [Portus] You actually did a Bachelor later? [Portus] For 2 years? [Mitchell] 3 years. At that point in time it was a Diploma. [Portus] You actually did a Bachelor later?
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Well. Did you do the bachelor actually when you were teaching there? No, no. Well. Did you do the bachelor actually when you were teaching there? No, no.
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There was a conversion course which was 4 nights and There was a conversion course which was 4 nights and
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one full day to change from a diploma to a bachelor's. [Portus] Oh, that's easy. [Mitchell]  Yes ah [Portus]  So what did you learn at NIDA? one full day to change from a diploma to a bachelor's. [Portus] Oh, that's easy. [Mitchell]  Yes ah [Portus]  So what did you learn at NIDA?
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Well, in a way Well, in a way
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when I'm describing this it's best to talk about clothing because I arrived in a beaten up Rover with my when I'm describing this it's best to talk about clothing because I arrived in a beaten up Rover with my
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Golden retriever wearing corduroy pants and a tweed jacket, and a  Golden retriever wearing corduroy pants and a tweed jacket, and a 
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mushroom coloured shirt with a mauve you know matching very subtle bow tie. [Portus] I'm getting the mushroom coloured shirt with a mauve you know matching very subtle bow tie. [Portus] I'm getting the
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I'm getting the look with the cigars and the whisky and [Mitchell] Well this was a pipe and I think I thought I was a young Corbusier or I'm getting the look with the cigars and the whisky and [Mitchell] Well this was a pipe and I think I thought I was a young Corbusier or
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something. I don't know what I thought I was. Going in with this golden retriever something. I don't know what I thought I was. Going in with this golden retriever
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and I walked out of the building in ...wearing army boots, camouflage trousers tucked into red socks, a pink t-shirt, a red and I walked out of the building in ...wearing army boots, camouflage trousers tucked into red socks, a pink t-shirt, a red
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diamond belt, an orange Qantas flight steward's jacket, orange hair and a ghetto blaster on my shoulder diamond belt, an orange Qantas flight steward's jacket, orange hair and a ghetto blaster on my shoulder
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and literally, that sounds like a fairly naff way of describing it, but it was a profound shift in my thinking and and literally, that sounds like a fairly naff way of describing it, but it was a profound shift in my thinking and
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and I guess it's as much as anything discovering the joy of being collaborative artist and I guess it's as much as anything discovering the joy of being collaborative artist
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but also the reason everybody was there was to actually build something, built an artwork together in essence, but also the reason everybody was there was to actually build something, built an artwork together in essence,
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and that I guess has been the mainstay of my, my existence from that point on. and that I guess has been the mainstay of my, my existence from that point on.
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I think the other thing with architecture was that I was not going to stick around for seven years before I actually had something built. I think the other thing with architecture was that I was not going to stick around for seven years before I actually had something built.
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I was too impatient to do that. If you were, if you even within seven years I was too impatient to do that. If you were, if you even within seven years
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you had something built, so this was a shortcut to actually producing and developing the designs that I want to do. you had something built, so this was a shortcut to actually producing and developing the designs that I want to do.
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[Portus]When you came out in 1983, were there opportunities for the serious, impatient designer? [Mitchell] Oh, very much so, yeah very much so. [Portus]When you came out in 1983, were there opportunities for the serious, impatient designer? [Mitchell] Oh, very much so, yeah very much so.
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But before we go there, the other thing...I mean I've talked in other ways about mentors But before we go there, the other thing...I mean I've talked in other ways about mentors
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and Robin absolutely was a mentor. But a mentor in the sense that we spent every single day arguing. and Robin absolutely was a mentor. But a mentor in the sense that we spent every single day arguing.
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Like very heated arguments about design and about the world and our view on it. But I guess I'm just going to Like very heated arguments about design and about the world and our view on it. But I guess I'm just going to
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mention those people as we go through because they are profoundly important stepping stones through the development of an mention those people as we go through because they are profoundly important stepping stones through the development of an
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artist I think. And Robin clearly saw something in me, and artist I think. And Robin clearly saw something in me, and
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and his way of teasing my whatever out was to, was to confront me and to challenge me and to, I would push back and his way of teasing my whatever out was to, was to confront me and to challenge me and to, I would push back
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and it was a very healthy, argumentative relationship. and it was a very healthy, argumentative relationship.
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What did he see in you as a skill that was worth that argument about? What did he see in you as a skill that was worth that argument about?
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Well it's interesting now being him many years later and being head of design. Well it's interesting now being him many years later and being head of design.
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I guess I look at my students now I guess I look at my students now
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and I think you are in many ways so much more sophisticated in your ability to express visual ideas, and I think you are in many ways so much more sophisticated in your ability to express visual ideas,
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not just the the tools that are available for you to do that not just the the tools that are available for you to do that
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but actually there's a whole library of visual imagery that you draw on that perhaps I wasn't. but actually there's a whole library of visual imagery that you draw on that perhaps I wasn't.
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But I do think that there was a fairly deep exploration of ideas But I do think that there was a fairly deep exploration of ideas
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and in particular how to, what I call folding space, to create an environment for a performer and I think Robin and in particular how to, what I call folding space, to create an environment for a performer and I think Robin
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and saw that in me and and wanted to promote that, in particular, and and saw that in me and and wanted to promote that, in particular, and
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And I would say... [Portus] So finding a space around the performer to, that's the key is it? [Mitchell] No, no learning how to fold space And I would say... [Portus] So finding a space around the performer to, that's the key is it? [Mitchell] No, no learning how to fold space
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is what I call it. It's essentially going right back to that early exercise with Robin. Given a space is what I call it. It's essentially going right back to that early exercise with Robin. Given a space
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how can you manipulate that space to support the performer and what is what the production is actually trying to do how can you manipulate that space to support the performer and what is what the production is actually trying to do
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and how can you bring up a resonance in the space that actually adheres to conceptually and how can you bring up a resonance in the space that actually adheres to conceptually
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and emotionally where the text or whatever the work might be is actually going. And that is, and emotionally where the text or whatever the work might be is actually going. And that is,
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I called it a dark art because it's actually quite a difficult thing to teach, but it is about spatial interpolation I called it a dark art because it's actually quite a difficult thing to teach, but it is about spatial interpolation
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and how you can organise things within a space to bring about a particular effect. And I think I've, and how you can organise things within a space to bring about a particular effect. And I think I've,
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I think I have become more subtle and at exploiting that expiration I think I have become more subtle and at exploiting that expiration
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and I think audiences sometimes aren't even aware that I'm doing something to them and I think audiences sometimes aren't even aware that I'm doing something to them
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but actually I am. They may just not recognise it and in fact I don't need them to recognise it has long as it has psychological impact on them but actually I am. They may just not recognise it and in fact I don't need them to recognise it has long as it has psychological impact on them
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in terms of how they're perceiving the people that are performing in that space. in terms of how they're perceiving the people that are performing in that space.
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And it isn't always the people, sometimes it's just something about the space And it isn't always the people, sometimes it's just something about the space
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that is actually giving them information and, that is actually giving them information and,
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but it's for me it is about a delightful dance between somebody performing but it's for me it is about a delightful dance between somebody performing
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and their relationship to the space. We'll hopefully touch on examples of that through your career which we should start. and their relationship to the space. We'll hopefully touch on examples of that through your career which we should start.
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Yeah. Where did you, your work when you, your first few works when you Yeah. Where did you, your work when you, your first few works when you
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left NIDA you said was relatively easy to get employment? Oh well look I, I left NIDA you said was relatively easy to get employment? Oh well look I, I
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The end of my first year in the Christmas break Robin suggested that I go and work with Brian Thompson and of course Brian and I The end of my first year in the Christmas break Robin suggested that I go and work with Brian Thompson and of course Brian and I
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in some ways, and I say only in some ways, are kindred spirits in that we both had started as architects, in some ways, and I say only in some ways, are kindred spirits in that we both had started as architects,
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he'd completed his course, I hadn't completed mine, but we came from the same, in some ways, the same headset. he'd completed his course, I hadn't completed mine, but we came from the same, in some ways, the same headset.
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There was a there was a sense of that architectural principles could be applied to a space to be manipulated in a There was a there was a sense of that architectural principles could be applied to a space to be manipulated in a
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particular way. So we were very much on common ground particular way. So we were very much on common ground
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right from the get go. I made the mistake of having my ear pierced and not knowing putting the ring in the wrong right from the get go. I made the mistake of having my ear pierced and not knowing putting the ring in the wrong
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side which created all sorts of havoc [laughter] for a number of years, but anyway but Brian, side which created all sorts of havoc [laughter] for a number of years, but anyway but Brian,
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and I actually worked very closely certainly for all the time that I went through, for the remaining two years of NIDA. So every and I actually worked very closely certainly for all the time that I went through, for the remaining two years of NIDA. So every
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holiday I would go and build a model for him holiday I would go and build a model for him
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and then. He's a few steps ahead as a practising theatre designer, older than you? Oh yeah very much so. No, he, he, oh when I say very much so and then. He's a few steps ahead as a practising theatre designer, older than you? Oh yeah very much so. No, he, he, oh when I say very much so
35:51

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I mean I was, I was twenty, twenty one and he would have been forty five, something like that. Yeah. I might be lying I mean I was, I was twenty, twenty one and he would have been forty five, something like that. Yeah. I might be lying
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but anyway something like that and so he had designed Rocky Horror Show the film but anyway something like that and so he had designed Rocky Horror Show the film
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and the original stage version and worked very closely with Jim Sharman. Anyway look he, he, and the original stage version and worked very closely with Jim Sharman. Anyway look he, he,
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I got where he was coming from immediately in terms of design and I loved working with him in that capacity, I got where he was coming from immediately in terms of design and I loved working with him in that capacity,
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and he invited me literally as and he invited me literally as
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I was completing the course NIDA to move to Melbourne to do Street Hero I was completing the course NIDA to move to Melbourne to do Street Hero
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which was a feature film he was doing. Yes, so I went on as draughtsman onto that film which was fantastic experience because it which was a feature film he was doing. Yes, so I went on as draughtsman onto that film which was fantastic experience because it
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was the first time I'd lived in another city for a length of time and anyway was the first time I'd lived in another city for a length of time and anyway
36:45

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we went on to do quite a lot of projects, well basically a couple of films and a couple of television series we went on to do quite a lot of projects, well basically a couple of films and a couple of television series
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and the end of that period would have been nineteen eighty seven, so this is eighty one and the end of that period would have been nineteen eighty seven, so this is eighty one
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when I starting working with him and '87 was when we formed D4. And so literally, when I starting working with him and '87 was when we formed D4. And so literally,
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the transition was that I was working on Long Way From Home, which is the Barlow the transition was that I was working on Long Way From Home, which is the Barlow
37:13

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and Chambers mini series about the two men that were hanged in Malaysia and I was using in that particular project I was and Chambers mini series about the two men that were hanged in Malaysia and I was using in that particular project I was
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I was assistant art director and in hindsight being paid very handsomely in 1987 for that work I was assistant art director and in hindsight being paid very handsomely in 1987 for that work
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and I used the funds to float the company so that my two partners and I shared I think from memory it was twelve hundred dollars a week and I used the funds to float the company so that my two partners and I shared I think from memory it was twelve hundred dollars a week
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which in nineteen seventy was reasonable income and we each took three hundred dollars and the other part of which in nineteen seventy was reasonable income and we each took three hundred dollars and the other part of
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went to rent. [Portus]The threads in your career and so you've come out, you've gone from architect to designer went to rent. [Portus]The threads in your career and so you've come out, you've gone from architect to designer
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to another significant mentorship with Thompson, and to work in film and television um to another significant mentorship with Thompson, and to work in film and television um
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and you've meanwhile gone off to the Sydney Theatre Company as well. But before we get to that and you've meanwhile gone off to the Sydney Theatre Company as well. But before we get to that
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can I just, can we talk about D4 Design cause this was established in, as you say, by.. '87 can I just, can we talk about D4 Design cause this was established in, as you say, by.. '87
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and '87 with Bill McMahon, an architect, client manager Stephen Roberts, you're all about and '87 with Bill McMahon, an architect, client manager Stephen Roberts, you're all about
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about 27, twenty seven yeah, planning a company to not last forever too. Limited life company for five years and about 27, twenty seven yeah, planning a company to not last forever too. Limited life company for five years and
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Why, it seems like a very theatre analogy, it's something that doesn't last. Well they never do [laughter] Why, it seems like a very theatre analogy, it's something that doesn't last. Well they never do [laughter]
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but look, it's sort of jumping ahead a little bit but it is it is relevant because I but look, it's sort of jumping ahead a little bit but it is it is relevant because I
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I'm something of a butterfly perhaps. I get bored easily and I'm something of a butterfly perhaps. I get bored easily and
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I need to keep moving to different things and so do I was doing I need to keep moving to different things and so do I was doing
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theatre a mixture of theatre and film from when I my first year out was '84 theatre a mixture of theatre and film from when I my first year out was '84
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and by eighty seven I was getting restless. and by eighty seven I was getting restless.
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I had actually started working for Sydney Theatre Company. I'll come back to that. But I had a girlfriend who was an apprentice chef at I had actually started working for Sydney Theatre Company. I'll come back to that. But I had a girlfriend who was an apprentice chef at
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at Bayswater Brasserie. Stephen had a girlfriend who was a waitress at the Bayswater Brasserie at Bayswater Brasserie. Stephen had a girlfriend who was a waitress at the Bayswater Brasserie
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and we were at the Christmas party. [Portus] Very famous venue in Kings Cross. [Mitchell] Yeah, and we were at the Christmas party. [Portus] Very famous venue in Kings Cross. [Mitchell] Yeah,
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and so we were standing watching the dancing at the Christmas party, Bayswater Brasserie, and Steven said oh and so we were standing watching the dancing at the Christmas party, Bayswater Brasserie, and Steven said oh
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I'm, I was thinking about starting a design company, would you be interested? And I said oh sounds great, yeah. So jump cut we I'm, I was thinking about starting a design company, would you be interested? And I said oh sounds great, yeah. So jump cut we
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we literally form our business and do all legal paperwork and whatever we literally form our business and do all legal paperwork and whatever
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and we're about a month into it and Bill McMahon who is the architect said, now Michael what is it that you do? [laughter] And I thought this is just bizarre. and we're about a month into it and Bill McMahon who is the architect said, now Michael what is it that you do? [laughter] And I thought this is just bizarre.
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We've supported this company and he doesn't even know what I do. Anyway so, but we while I was doing Barlow and Chambers mini-series We've supported this company and he doesn't even know what I do. Anyway so, but we while I was doing Barlow and Chambers mini-series
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and funding, bankrolling, literally bankrolling the company for six months, Bill and Stephen went off and funding, bankrolling, literally bankrolling the company for six months, Bill and Stephen went off
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and kind of struck gold by our securing the design of the Rockpool Restaurant for Neil Perry and so and kind of struck gold by our securing the design of the Rockpool Restaurant for Neil Perry and so
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when I came off the film. when I came off the film.
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We went straight into doing that project. Well again this is three 27-year-olds who were given one and a half We went straight into doing that project. Well again this is three 27-year-olds who were given one and a half
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Verify
million dollars in 1987 to go and architecturally million dollars in 1987 to go and architecturally
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and in every way design, rebuild this heritage building in George Street. The Rocks? The Rocks and and in every way design, rebuild this heritage building in George Street. The Rocks? The Rocks and
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 [Portus] And create a very famous seafood restaurant. Judged by one magazine  [Portus] And create a very famous seafood restaurant. Judged by one magazine
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the eighth best restaurant in the world. [Mitchell] Yes. Yes. Well it actually it survived twenty one years untouched the eighth best restaurant in the world. [Mitchell] Yes. Yes. Well it actually it survived twenty one years untouched
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which is kind of unheard of which is kind of unheard of
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but it was Neil Perry 's signature place. It made, overnight we sort of became Sydney design gods which sounds but it was Neil Perry 's signature place. It made, overnight we sort of became Sydney design gods which sounds
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pretentious but it was it was like we'd become rock stars of design and pretentious but it was it was like we'd become rock stars of design and
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and this was the first project we'd worked on together. So it was a kind of weird amalgam of different talents coming and this was the first project we'd worked on together. So it was a kind of weird amalgam of different talents coming
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together together
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and I guess I was looking at it from a theatrical point of view so there was a whole ceremonial process of moving and I guess I was looking at it from a theatrical point of view so there was a whole ceremonial process of moving
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through the restaurant, and a parade strip and so anyway it was an extraordinary thing. through the restaurant, and a parade strip and so anyway it was an extraordinary thing.
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Now tell me more about the theatre of the seafood restaurant. Well as you come in on your right is a staircase which is a Now tell me more about the theatre of the seafood restaurant. Well as you come in on your right is a staircase which is a
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riff on the idea of a prawn, not that you'd really pick thatup. But essentially there was an aisle if you like riff on the idea of a prawn, not that you'd really pick thatup. But essentially there was an aisle if you like
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or a runway in blue carpet that took you up to different levels through the restaurant which was marked out by a series of or a runway in blue carpet that took you up to different levels through the restaurant which was marked out by a series of
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lights that I designed lights that I designed
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and that in itself was a kind of unremarkable thing opening a box that actually had a real object that you designed as opposed to a and that in itself was a kind of unremarkable thing opening a box that actually had a real object that you designed as opposed to a
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prop you know. I just couldn't believe it, the the real thing. prop you know. I just couldn't believe it, the the real thing.
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Anyway, so but it the spaces were organised in terms of a series of events and and a parade Anyway, so but it the spaces were organised in terms of a series of events and and a parade
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If you like, through the building and linked up by this runway and, of course, that was also the eighties If you like, through the building and linked up by this runway and, of course, that was also the eighties
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and was about going out and eating well and literally being on a runway going to your table and was about going out and eating well and literally being on a runway going to your table
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and so was I guess a theatrical expression in many ways, and so was I guess a theatrical expression in many ways,
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and also presenting Neil in his own window as the star chef and also presenting Neil in his own window as the star chef
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and so it was all about the actors really of that space, Neil being you know chief amongst them. But anyway, and so it was all about the actors really of that space, Neil being you know chief amongst them. But anyway,
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that led to to some amazing things. Well you designed a cafe in Kings Cross, a pasta bar in Darlinghurst? Yes that led to to some amazing things. Well you designed a cafe in Kings Cross, a pasta bar in Darlinghurst? Yes
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so a lot of things actually. so a lot of things actually.
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The Powerhouse Club space and along the way we designed various pieces of furniture which are now in various galleries The Powerhouse Club space and along the way we designed various pieces of furniture which are now in various galleries
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and museums. In fact, little aside story, the Rockpool chair and museums. In fact, little aside story, the Rockpool chair
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We thought... and this is a twenty seven -year-old with a lot of money at their disposal going We thought... and this is a twenty seven -year-old with a lot of money at their disposal going
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well what'll we do for the chairs? Oh we will design the chairs. Of course we'll design the chairs. Why don't we try aluminium casting, that is a whole well what'll we do for the chairs? Oh we will design the chairs. Of course we'll design the chairs. Why don't we try aluminium casting, that is a whole
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technology in itself and in fact that chair took almost as much time to design and technology in itself and in fact that chair took almost as much time to design and
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and whatever as the entire restaurant. [laughter] And from memory there were a hundred and sixty of these chairs made and whatever as the entire restaurant. [laughter] And from memory there were a hundred and sixty of these chairs made
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and there was a structural flaw in the junction between the support underneath the plywood seat to the cast aluminium. Very and there was a structural flaw in the junction between the support underneath the plywood seat to the cast aluminium. Very
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beautiful, but cast aluminium rear legs and they were cracking and breaking. And so at our own cost we had beautiful, but cast aluminium rear legs and they were cracking and breaking. And so at our own cost we had
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we had to late at night take out batches of twenty chairs, send them off to aluminium welding company we had to late at night take out batches of twenty chairs, send them off to aluminium welding company
44:27

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and get them back into the building by the next morning [laughter] and get them back into the building by the next morning [laughter]
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and identify with Neil where the strong ones were. Ah so a whole learning curve in that. [Portus]  And then Michael what and identify with Neil where the strong ones were. Ah so a whole learning curve in that. [Portus]  And then Michael what
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fifteen years later, you did it all again fifteen years later, you did it all again
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when you did the refurbishment of Rockpool in 2003. Yeah, so Stephen, I left D4 about, let's call it four when you did the refurbishment of Rockpool in 2003. Yeah, so Stephen, I left D4 about, let's call it four
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years in and we were due to close after five years and of course the recession had hit by then years in and we were due to close after five years and of course the recession had hit by then
44:57

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and so the, fabulous being a rockstar of design, and so the, fabulous being a rockstar of design,
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but there was no money to employ us. So that happily for me coincided with the point where Richard Wherret asked me to do but there was no money to employ us. So that happily for me coincided with the point where Richard Wherret asked me to do
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the Arena Superstar. And so I thought this is a good exit for me, so I went off to do that. But Stephen, the Arena Superstar. And so I thought this is a good exit for me, so I went off to do that. But Stephen,
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when the company closed, moved to New York and became the head of Mac Cosmetics, when the company closed, moved to New York and became the head of Mac Cosmetics,
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the design department for Mac Cosmetics and an amazing, amazing designer and leader of style in many ways the design department for Mac Cosmetics and an amazing, amazing designer and leader of style in many ways
45:38

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in that particular world. Very sadly he now has Huntington's and is on a very slippery slope but anyway, in that particular world. Very sadly he now has Huntington's and is on a very slippery slope but anyway,
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but yes, Neil invited us back to do refurbishment. but yes, Neil invited us back to do refurbishment.
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I think we changed probably sixty percent of it and ah, but Neil was going through I think we changed probably sixty percent of it and ah, but Neil was going through
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going through a period of time of trying to work out what he actually wanted to do, and he then changed it again about going through a period of time of trying to work out what he actually wanted to do, and he then changed it again about
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five years later and anyway now it's gone. five years later and anyway now it's gone.
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But to be unchanged for twenty one years in Sydney as a monument if you like to the late eighties But to be unchanged for twenty one years in Sydney as a monument if you like to the late eighties
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and but I think the trick of it was actually that it, yes, it borrowed from that language and but I think the trick of it was actually that it, yes, it borrowed from that language
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but it had other things to say and I think that's why it survived. but it had other things to say and I think that's why it survived.
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You mentioned working on Jesus Christ Superstar You mentioned working on Jesus Christ Superstar
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but before that you'd worked a bit with Richard Wherrett. Richard Wherrett really picked you up as the inaugural artistic director but before that you'd worked a bit with Richard Wherrett. Richard Wherrett really picked you up as the inaugural artistic director
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Verify
of Sydney Theatre Company that he was, to work with the company. [Mitchell] Yes. [Portus] Here again of Sydney Theatre Company that he was, to work with the company. [Mitchell] Yes. [Portus] Here again
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we're now with another influential mentor in your life. [Mitchell] Oh I would so in many ways we're now with another influential mentor in your life. [Mitchell] Oh I would so in many ways
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the most significant male mentor for me. I, I think in, must have been 1985  the most significant male mentor for me. I, I think in, must have been 1985 
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my second year out after NIDA. my second year out after NIDA.
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However, However,
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Bakaitis  invited me to design three back-to-back shows for the New Moon Theatre Company in the far north of Queensland, based in Bakaitis  invited me to design three back-to-back shows for the New Moon Theatre Company in the far north of Queensland, based in
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Rockhampton. Rockhampton.
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What a gift that was. I mean for a young designer to go into a full company for I think it was close on eight months, first of all What a gift that was. I mean for a young designer to go into a full company for I think it was close on eight months, first of all
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eight months. eight months.
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full-time employment, but also designing three shows that had to tour so we did Rockhampton, full-time employment, but also designing three shows that had to tour so we did Rockhampton,
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Townsville, Cairns, Mackay, Townsville, Cairns in a circuit and then we'd go back to Rockhampton. Brilliant, brilliant beginning for me. Townsville, Cairns, Mackay, Townsville, Cairns in a circuit and then we'd go back to Rockhampton. Brilliant, brilliant beginning for me.
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When you consider that you were later designing operas and theatre shows and particularly Shakespearean theatre shows When you consider that you were later designing operas and theatre shows and particularly Shakespearean theatre shows
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that were having to tour. [Mitchell] Yes. that were having to tour. [Mitchell] Yes.
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And be adjustable to different stages. [Mitchell] Oh, brilliant. [Portus] This was your first experience of that. [Mitchell] Yeah, no, no. It was really a fabulous opportunity And be adjustable to different stages. [Mitchell] Oh, brilliant. [Portus] This was your first experience of that. [Mitchell] Yeah, no, no. It was really a fabulous opportunity
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and the first was to Guys and Dolls which was terrific. But we did On Our Selection as the second piece and and the first was to Guys and Dolls which was terrific. But we did On Our Selection as the second piece and
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and that absolutely went off because it was in North Queensland that audience to completely identified those characters. and that absolutely went off because it was in North Queensland that audience to completely identified those characters.
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it was actually a very good production. Well it was that production that Richard came to see it was actually a very good production. Well it was that production that Richard came to see
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and on the basis of that invited me back to STC to do Mixed Doubles. and on the basis of that invited me back to STC to do Mixed Doubles.
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So far this profession is working quite well. So far this profession is working quite well.
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People come and see one of your shows, just one of your sets, and you get jobs. Yes, People come and see one of your shows, just one of your sets, and you get jobs. Yes,
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That's right, [Portus] so you're invited to just do one production. That's right, [Portus] so you're invited to just do one production.
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Verify
at the STC? [Mitchell] Well, again this was, and in hindsight this was a at the STC? [Mitchell] Well, again this was, and in hindsight this was a
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fabulous series of things of things that happened because he, he invited me to come back and do Mixed Doubles. Mixed Doubles was fabulous series of things of things that happened because he, he invited me to come back and do Mixed Doubles. Mixed Doubles was
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six forty minute plays that ran together. So there was a change over that happened at interval in terms of the six forty minute plays that ran together. So there was a change over that happened at interval in terms of the
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set but they would leapfrog through a season, set but they would leapfrog through a season,
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so you'd have a pair, one of them would drop out, another show would come in. So it was quite a kind of Rubik's cube if you like so you'd have a pair, one of them would drop out, another show would come in. So it was quite a kind of Rubik's cube if you like
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of things that had to intersect with other things across, so it wasn't just six forty minute pieces, of things that had to intersect with other things across, so it wasn't just six forty minute pieces,
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it was six forty minute pieces that had to leapfrog across one another. [Martin] And different authors? [Mitchell] Yes it was six forty minute pieces that had to leapfrog across one another. [Martin] And different authors? [Mitchell] Yes
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[Martin] And performed where? [Mitchell] It was in Wharf 1, and with a permanent company that were there to do the six pieces [Martin] And performed where? [Mitchell] It was in Wharf 1, and with a permanent company that were there to do the six pieces
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Verify
and there were from memory, there were five directors because Rex Cramphorn did two of the six. Can't say that Rex and I got on and there were from memory, there were five directors because Rex Cramphorn did two of the six. Can't say that Rex and I got on
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terribly well. terribly well.
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but Anyway, but Anyway,
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I think he... I don't know what he thought of me but anyway we were just oil and water. [Martin] Much admired by other people. [Mitchell] Very much so I think he... I don't know what he thought of me but anyway we were just oil and water. [Martin] Much admired by other people. [Mitchell] Very much so
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I can see why, but it didn't happen for us, for whatever reason. Which is not say... in fact one of the best I can see why, but it didn't happen for us, for whatever reason. Which is not say... in fact one of the best
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pieces that we did in that season was the piece about Howard Hughes that Bruce Spence... and Bruce Spence was Howard Hughes. What was it pieces that we did in that season was the piece about Howard Hughes that Bruce Spence... and Bruce Spence was Howard Hughes. What was it
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called? I can't remember. Anyway, and that was Rex, and it, that was terrific actually. We kind of worked on that but. called? I can't remember. Anyway, and that was Rex, and it, that was terrific actually. We kind of worked on that but.
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So did you do the design of all of the plays. [Mitchell] Yeah. So did you do the design of all of the plays. [Mitchell] Yeah.
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So it was set and costumes for all of it. [Martin] And costumes? [Mitchell] Yes, so ah. [Martin] So what were you learning So it was set and costumes for all of it. [Martin] And costumes? [Mitchell] Yes, so ah. [Martin] So what were you learning
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and what did you become to... to learn more from Richard Wherrett and and what did you become to... to learn more from Richard Wherrett and
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and his signature and his theatre making that impressed you? [Mitchell] Richard was actually an extraordinary amalgam of all sorts of things. He was a complete hedonist and his signature and his theatre making that impressed you? [Mitchell] Richard was actually an extraordinary amalgam of all sorts of things. He was a complete hedonist
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but he was also an incredibly thoughtful man who really,... but he was also an incredibly thoughtful man who really,...
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and I think a lot of people didn't realise, he really stage-managed lots of careers in terms of deciding and I think a lot of people didn't realise, he really stage-managed lots of careers in terms of deciding
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when it was the right time for that person to take on a particular task. And that sounds like an odd thing to say but by way of when it was the right time for that person to take on a particular task. And that sounds like an odd thing to say but by way of
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example for myself. example for myself.
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Richard... in those days there was Wharf 1 Richard... in those days there was Wharf 1
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and Wharf 2 and the Drama Theatre. And Richard firmly believed that a young designer should cut their teeth in the Wharf and Wharf 2 and the Drama Theatre. And Richard firmly believed that a young designer should cut their teeth in the Wharf
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and only when he thought they were ready, and only when he thought they were ready,
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would they make the jump to the Drama Theatre. Well it took me nine years to get to the Drama Theatre would they make the jump to the Drama Theatre. Well it took me nine years to get to the Drama Theatre
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and I've got graduates who go there. and I've got graduates who go there.
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Some of them have gone there the second year out of the thing and and have come a cropper. Some of them have gone there the second year out of the thing and and have come a cropper.
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So what Richard was actually trying to do was to assess somebody's ability So what Richard was actually trying to do was to assess somebody's ability
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and not throw them to the lions as it were. So it was actually a protective mechanism. I do think nine years was too long, but anyway [laughter] and not throw them to the lions as it were. So it was actually a protective mechanism. I do think nine years was too long, but anyway [laughter]
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but he in the meantime I did back-to-back Wharf shows for a long period of time but he in the meantime I did back-to-back Wharf shows for a long period of time
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and was very fully engaged by the company. Just... and ironically, and was very fully engaged by the company. Just... and ironically,
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the first piece I did there was with Simon Phillips. the first piece I did there was with Simon Phillips.
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And Richard said I'm so annoyed: I wanted to do the first piece with you. It was like And Richard said I'm so annoyed: I wanted to do the first piece with you. It was like
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well you had plenty of opportunity. [laughter] [Martin] And you worked often with Simon Phillips as a collaborator? [Mitchell] Yeah, we did. well you had plenty of opportunity. [laughter] [Martin] And you worked often with Simon Phillips as a collaborator? [Mitchell] Yeah, we did.
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But what was your, as we in this discussion try to understand your own signature as a designer, what do you think as a But what was your, as we in this discussion try to understand your own signature as a designer, what do you think as a
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generalisation was Richard Wherrett's signature as a theatre maker? generalisation was Richard Wherrett's signature as a theatre maker?
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I think he... a lot of people again accused his work of being superficial. I don't think it was superficial at all. I think he... a lot of people again accused his work of being superficial. I don't think it was superficial at all.
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I think he used lots of tools to engage us in the work I think he used lots of tools to engage us in the work
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but actually the thinking behind the work was often quite profound. but actually the thinking behind the work was often quite profound.
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And we would have long, long, long discussions about the work, And we would have long, long, long discussions about the work,
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but he also... I think he had a kind of miraculous way of appearing to be light of touch but he also... I think he had a kind of miraculous way of appearing to be light of touch
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but it had actually come from a very thoughtful process indeed but it had actually come from a very thoughtful process indeed
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And that applies to what he would say about actors... But of course the real trick is just casting the show And that applies to what he would say about actors... But of course the real trick is just casting the show
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and then you can kind of just... it goes by itself. Well that wasn't true. I mean that and then you can kind of just... it goes by itself. Well that wasn't true. I mean that
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Yes, that's an incredibly important thing, but he also knew exactly Yes, that's an incredibly important thing, but he also knew exactly
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when to say exactly the right thing to an actor when to say exactly the right thing to an actor
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or a, anybody else who was working for him. The other thing that he was amazing at and it's interesting seeing or a, anybody else who was working for him. The other thing that he was amazing at and it's interesting seeing
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Kip in that position now, Kip Williams. Kip in that position now, Kip Williams.
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[Martin] The new artistic director of Sydney Theatre Company. [Mitchell] Yeah. Because I, in many ways I see aspects of Richard in Kip [Martin] The new artistic director of Sydney Theatre Company. [Mitchell] Yeah. Because I, in many ways I see aspects of Richard in Kip
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and it's, and I'm not talking about their directorial style at all. and it's, and I'm not talking about their directorial style at all.
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I'm talking about the fact that Kip cares passionately for that company and the people that work in the company I'm talking about the fact that Kip cares passionately for that company and the people that work in the company
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and is in touch with, you know, actually engaged with the people in that company. And that's a, that is and is in touch with, you know, actually engaged with the people in that company. And that's a, that is
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I think something that I recognise and learnt from my father, who, I think something that I recognise and learnt from my father, who,
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when he came back to the family factory, every day he would walk through and say hello when he came back to the family factory, every day he would walk through and say hello
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and have a conversation with as many of the three hundred and fifty people working there that he could. Richard would do exactly and have a conversation with as many of the three hundred and fifty people working there that he could. Richard would do exactly
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the same thing. He would park down what was called the shallow end of the Wharf the same thing. He would park down what was called the shallow end of the Wharf
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and walking towards his office at the deep end and he would go through, rather than going down the fire corridor  and walking towards his office at the deep end and he would go through, rather than going down the fire corridor 
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or the outer corridor whatever or the outer corridor whatever
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he would go through the workshops and just say hello to everyone on the way. [Martin] Because he was a shy man too, wasn't he? [Mitchell] Yes, very shy, he would go through the workshops and just say hello to everyone on the way. [Martin] Because he was a shy man too, wasn't he? [Mitchell] Yes, very shy,
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which again I don't think a lot of people recognised which again I don't think a lot of people recognised
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but... and I guess the other thing and it's funny again looking back on it but... and I guess the other thing and it's funny again looking back on it
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the first show we did together was No Exit. So I'd done Mixed Doubles the first show we did together was No Exit. So I'd done Mixed Doubles
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and then he said well come and do a show with me and we did No Exit in Wharf 2. And I went to him with a design and he said and then he said well come and do a show with me and we did No Exit in Wharf 2. And I went to him with a design and he said
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well Michael I'm not sure we've quite got it. well Michael I'm not sure we've quite got it.
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And I thought how dare you. Who do you think you're talking to and stormed off. [laughter] You know, don't think I was twenty five. [laughter] What does he know. Went home And I thought how dare you. Who do you think you're talking to and stormed off. [laughter] You know, don't think I was twenty five. [laughter] What does he know. Went home
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and of course produced a far better design. And, and he didn't say it in any way horribly. It was... just not sure we quite got it there and of course produced a far better design. And, and he didn't say it in any way horribly. It was... just not sure we quite got it there
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and, of course, you know there is an ego in me, but anyway and, of course, you know there is an ego in me, but anyway
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Verify
that was, it was again a bit of grit in the pearl. [Martin] Did Richard Wherrett have, as some critics have alleged a kind of that was, it was again a bit of grit in the pearl. [Martin] Did Richard Wherrett have, as some critics have alleged a kind of
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fondness for over-design that might have been attractive to a young designer? [Mitche;;] Ah, I don't see it that way at all. fondness for over-design that might have been attractive to a young designer? [Mitche;;] Ah, I don't see it that way at all.
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Verify
I'm working I take it into Jesus Christ superstar which you did that here in Britain, Asia I'm working I take it into Jesus Christ superstar which you did that here in Britain, Asia
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in '92. A stage version in '94. This was highly designed, in '92. A stage version in '94. This was highly designed,
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Verify
this show. A lot of ... atheatre of design and technology one critic called it.  this show. A lot of ... atheatre of design and technology one critic called it. 
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and I was just wondering whether I can ask you at this stage whether design can kill a story, even a biblical one and I was just wondering whether I can ask you at this stage whether design can kill a story, even a biblical one
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or at least over secularise it as one critic said. [Mitchell] It's funny because I look at the arena Superstar or at least over secularise it as one critic said. [Mitchell] It's funny because I look at the arena Superstar
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and think what a simple design that was, you know. It actually was just a platform. Yes, okay, it was in the shape of a grid and think what a simple design that was, you know. It actually was just a platform. Yes, okay, it was in the shape of a grid
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crucifix and it had a revolve that was part of that crucifix and it had you know Christ being lifted on an hydraulic crucifix and it had a revolve that was part of that crucifix and it had you know Christ being lifted on an hydraulic
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but apart from that it was, it was pretty plain sailing. Yes is was vast. but apart from that it was, it was pretty plain sailing. Yes is was vast.
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Yes, it actually explored the dynamic of that very large room, but I wouldn't call it a brazen Yes, it actually explored the dynamic of that very large room, but I wouldn't call it a brazen
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and you know exploration of massive technology. and you know exploration of massive technology.
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Having said that are one of my favourite memories of that time I quickly became very fond of Harry Miller, Having said that are one of my favourite memories of that time I quickly became very fond of Harry Miller,
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and [Portus] Who produced it. and [Portus] Who produced it.
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Yes. Rascal, ratbag, adorable, whatever but of course he was deaf and he had commissioned at that point in time one of the loudest, Yes. Rascal, ratbag, adorable, whatever but of course he was deaf and he had commissioned at that point in time one of the loudest,
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largest sound systems ever commissioned for an arena show and in the Entertainment Centre largest sound systems ever commissioned for an arena show and in the Entertainment Centre
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and he's standing there,we're looking up and there are speakers for days [laughter] and he's standing there,we're looking up and there are speakers for days [laughter]
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and Harry is adjusting his ear phone and says does it sound alright, Michael, I've spent a lot of money on this. [laughter] Yes, Harry, it does sound good. and Harry is adjusting his ear phone and says does it sound alright, Michael, I've spent a lot of money on this. [laughter] Yes, Harry, it does sound good.
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But anyway it was, But anyway it was,
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I would say it's more about in that particular instances more about the it was something on a bigger scale in Sydney I would say it's more about in that particular instances more about the it was something on a bigger scale in Sydney
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had seen before. had seen before.
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It was the first of the there'd been a production of an opera production of Carmen that come into the Entertainment Centre It was the first of the there'd been a production of an opera production of Carmen that come into the Entertainment Centre
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and that was the first arena show that anybody had seen. But this was the second and that was the first arena show that anybody had seen. But this was the second
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and its I think its, if you want to call it, its extravagance was actually boldness and its I think its, if you want to call it, its extravagance was actually boldness
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the concept of actually presenting on that scale and using you know I mean the concept of actually presenting on that scale and using you know I mean
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I don't like all of Webber 's work, but I think Superstar is a fabulous piece and and to combine rock 'n' roll I don't like all of Webber 's work, but I think Superstar is a fabulous piece and and to combine rock 'n' roll
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and everything that entailed, and a cast at least in part from that world, if not all of them. and everything that entailed, and a cast at least in part from that world, if not all of them.
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that was the sort of showmanship of it, that was the kind of brazenness of the production. that was the sort of showmanship of it, that was the kind of brazenness of the production.
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It is said the style of your, of one of your approaches to design It is said the style of your, of one of your approaches to design
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when you think that you went on to do the Puccini spectacular at the Melbourne Tennis Centre this time which is a when you think that you went on to do the Puccini spectacular at the Melbourne Tennis Centre this time which is a
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sort of snatched songs from four Puccini operas and had Dennis Olsen as the composer, and another big epic set there too, huge steel sort of snatched songs from four Puccini operas and had Dennis Olsen as the composer, and another big epic set there too, huge steel
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steel set, three circular platforms, catwalks, revolve lift. You like a set that moves steel set, three circular platforms, catwalks, revolve lift. You like a set that moves
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don't you? [Mitchell]Sometimes, and it's, I do when it's the right context to do it in. But I, I guess I'm don't you? [Mitchell]Sometimes, and it's, I do when it's the right context to do it in. But I, I guess I'm
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Also, I am interested in something that changes the change again a dynamic. That leads me to things that move Also, I am interested in something that changes the change again a dynamic. That leads me to things that move
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you know. It is absolutely true that I'm probably technically one of the most proficient designers around you know. It is absolutely true that I'm probably technically one of the most proficient designers around
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Verify
and use that understanding of structures, mechanics whatever to to [Martin Portus] fold the space. ]Mitchell] Fold the space. But it's a means to an end, and use that understanding of structures, mechanics whatever to to [Martin Portus] fold the space. ]Mitchell] Fold the space. But it's a means to an end,
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not because I am fascinated in technology, not because I am fascinated in technology,
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Verify
although I am interested in what can be done. [Portus] So you don't upstage the performance, the intention of the work? although I am interested in what can be done. [Portus] So you don't upstage the performance, the intention of the work?
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No, no no no I don't, certainly not wittingly and sometimes profoundly supported by doing the things that I've done No, no no no I don't, certainly not wittingly and sometimes profoundly supported by doing the things that I've done
1:00:40

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although I did think that Catherine was going to catch pneumonia, but anyway. [Portus] At the cauldron, although I did think that Catherine was going to catch pneumonia, but anyway. [Portus] At the cauldron,
1:00:45

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which we'll get to. [Mitchell] Yeah. which we'll get to. [Mitchell] Yeah.
1:00:47

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But you are drawn to the epic I suppose, and you think it's the architect, the constructionist But you are drawn to the epic I suppose, and you think it's the architect, the constructionist
1:00:53

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in you? in you?
1:00:55

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It's all comes back to that first intersection with Robin which was about how do I do something to this space to underscore, underline It's all comes back to that first intersection with Robin which was about how do I do something to this space to underscore, underline
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and support, promote, at times propel a performer in a space and support, promote, at times propel a performer in a space
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and I use every means at my disposal to do that. Sometimes that involves machinery, sometimes it's a very simple moment. and I use every means at my disposal to do that. Sometimes that involves machinery, sometimes it's a very simple moment.
1:01:23

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I just want to jump to The Ring Cycle for a minute, the Adelaide Ring Cycle. I just want to jump to The Ring Cycle for a minute, the Adelaide Ring Cycle.
1:01:28

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We had a German Associate Director and of course that production had many, many, many moving parts, We had a German Associate Director and of course that production had many, many, many moving parts,
1:01:40

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but he said, and I remember it very clearly, he said but he said, and I remember it very clearly, he said
1:01:43

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for all of the spectacle that there is in your designs-various for different parts of this work the most profound for all of the spectacle that there is in your designs-various for different parts of this work the most profound
1:01:52

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thing you have done, thing you have done,
1:01:53

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is the shell that is the performance space. Because it is, this, sometimes the most potent moment is is the shell that is the performance space. Because it is, this, sometimes the most potent moment is
1:02:01

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when that is an empty space with a singer standing in the middle of it. when that is an empty space with a singer standing in the middle of it.
1:02:05

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And if I hadn't got that right then everything else would have been for nought, because you have to be able to go back to, And if I hadn't got that right then everything else would have been for nought, because you have to be able to go back to,
1:02:13

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of course it's not nothing. It's several million dollars worth of nothingness, of course it's not nothing. It's several million dollars worth of nothingness,
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but it is actually about providing a resonant empty space for the performer be pushed forward, to be... inhabit and but it is actually about providing a resonant empty space for the performer be pushed forward, to be... inhabit and
1:02:27

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be, in the best possible way, helping be, in the best possible way, helping
1:02:33

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that person realise the story that they're telling. [Portus] We'll get back to The Ring and I suppose via the Wagner that that person realise the story that they're telling. [Portus] We'll get back to The Ring and I suppose via the Wagner that
1:02:42

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you did in ninety eight, you did in ninety eight,
1:02:43

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which I wanted to bring an MoU which was another is exploitation was a lot of the technical opportunities of theatre which I wanted to bring an MoU which was another is exploitation was a lot of the technical opportunities of theatre
1:02:50

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which you seemed to be particularly alive to? Well they were lasers which you used very remarkably in 1998 which you seemed to be particularly alive to? Well they were lasers which you used very remarkably in 1998
1:02:60

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 but I think you made the point at the time you know that rock concerts have been doing it for ages. [Mitchell] Absolutely  but I think you made the point at the time you know that rock concerts have been doing it for ages. [Mitchell] Absolutely
1:03:07

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and I have to go back a step to again one of my favourite memories of Harry Miller when we were doing Superstar. and I have to go back a step to again one of my favourite memories of Harry Miller when we were doing Superstar.
1:03:17

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We had installed the entire set at the Showgrounds. It was not in Hordern Pavilion but it was in a pavilion nearby We had installed the entire set at the Showgrounds. It was not in Hordern Pavilion but it was in a pavilion nearby
1:03:24

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and Peggy Eisenhauer who is a very famous New York lighting designer who works with Jules Fisher a lot, in fact they have separate and Peggy Eisenhauer who is a very famous New York lighting designer who works with Jules Fisher a lot, in fact they have separate
1:03:33

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careers but joined at the hip as it were, she was coming out to light the Arena Superstar careers but joined at the hip as it were, she was coming out to light the Arena Superstar
1:03:40

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but she wasn't able to arrive pretty much until we were in the venue, lighting it for real. but she wasn't able to arrive pretty much until we were in the venue, lighting it for real.
1:03:46

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And so Harry said: well Michael you're just going to have to do the lasers. And I said Harry I'm a set designer, And so Harry said: well Michael you're just going to have to do the lasers. And I said Harry I'm a set designer,
1:03:56

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I know nothing about laser. No, no you're going to have to do it. So there were a couple, a married couple who Richard I know nothing about laser. No, no you're going to have to do it. So there were a couple, a married couple who Richard
1:04:06

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and Harry had found in a club somewhere. And they had a gig where she'd put on a mirror dress and Harry had found in a club somewhere. And they had a gig where she'd put on a mirror dress
1:04:13

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and he shone his laser beam on her and I when I is a lesbian. and he shone his laser beam on her and I when I is a lesbian.
1:04:19

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a huge laser, incredibly powerful laser just pointing at her and she would dance. So Harry a huge laser, incredibly powerful laser just pointing at her and she would dance. So Harry
1:04:26

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and Richard thought this, this is the perfect couple to do the lasers for the show. We are out of the Showground's three and Richard thought this, this is the perfect couple to do the lasers for the show. We are out of the Showground's three
1:04:34

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o'clock in the morning and two things happened. o'clock in the morning and two things happened.
1:04:37

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One is that the computer crashed One is that the computer crashed
1:04:39

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and lost all the programming for that night which led to this couple literally going hammer and tong at one another and lost all the programming for that night which led to this couple literally going hammer and tong at one another
1:04:47

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and punching and pulling hair and whatever. At that very moment the roller door lifts automatically, Harry drives in in a stretch and punching and pulling hair and whatever. At that very moment the roller door lifts automatically, Harry drives in in a stretch
1:04:56

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limousine with Deborah Hutton, in a tuxedo with the tie undone. Get's out of the car. What's going on here? In the background limousine with Deborah Hutton, in a tuxedo with the tie undone. Get's out of the car. What's going on here? In the background
1:05:03

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there's bof bof bang bang bang bof hair there's bof bof bang bang bang bof hair
1:05:05

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being ripped out and Harry says, well Michael I'm glad to see you're getting a good blooding over this. Ok. Harry, it's lasers, I don't do lasers. Yeah, ok. being ripped out and Harry says, well Michael I'm glad to see you're getting a good blooding over this. Ok. Harry, it's lasers, I don't do lasers. Yeah, ok.
1:05:15

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We'll just sort it out. Gets back in the limo, car goes out, shutter goes down and I'm left with these two maniacs who are just [laughter] literally We'll just sort it out. Gets back in the limo, car goes out, shutter goes down and I'm left with these two maniacs who are just [laughter] literally
1:05:22

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fame of that. Anyway, so by the face of serendipitous approach. fame of that. Anyway, so by the face of serendipitous approach.
1:05:31

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I ended up knowing a lot about lasers and then, you know, was very confident about using them in a different context. [Portus] And yet stopping them looking like I ended up knowing a lot about lasers and then, you know, was very confident about using them in a different context. [Portus] And yet stopping them looking like
1:05:41

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disco tricks. [Mitchell] Yeah. I mean I think the thing with Tannhauser disco tricks. [Mitchell] Yeah. I mean I think the thing with Tannhauser
1:05:44

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that was, it was a beam being pointed in a single direction towards the front of the stage and used as a light plane. that was, it was a beam being pointed in a single direction towards the front of the stage and used as a light plane.
1:05:53

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That's why we wanted to use it, Nick Schlieper and I. [Portus] The lighting designer, Nick? [Mitchell] Yeah, who who is one of my dearest friends That's why we wanted to use it, Nick Schlieper and I. [Portus] The lighting designer, Nick? [Mitchell] Yeah, who who is one of my dearest friends
1:06:01

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and we've had a very long career together. But funnily enough and we've had a very long career together. But funnily enough
1:06:08

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I remember in the model for Tannhauser the only way we could actually express to Elke Einthart who is the director of that who I remember in the model for Tannhauser the only way we could actually express to Elke Einthart who is the director of that who
1:06:14

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went on to finally do the Ring. The only way we could express that to us is to get a bit of a bitter Perspex cut that  went on to finally do the Ring. The only way we could express that to us is to get a bit of a bitter Perspex cut that 
1:06:22

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The was the shape of the light and a fluorescent green The was the shape of the light and a fluorescent green
1:06:27

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and Elke could not get her head around why there wasn't a solid platform [laughter] to walk on in the theatre. It was like and Elke could not get her head around why there wasn't a solid platform [laughter] to walk on in the theatre. It was like
1:06:35

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no, no that's just a representation of the light. Anyway, um, no. [Portus] You were suggesting in Tannhauser the debauchery of no, no that's just a representation of the light. Anyway, um, no. [Portus] You were suggesting in Tannhauser the debauchery of
1:06:45

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Venusberg weren't you, isn't that? [Mitchell]  Yes. [Portus] It's a wild place. [Mitchell] Yes. Venusberg weren't you, isn't that? [Mitchell]  Yes. [Portus] It's a wild place. [Mitchell] Yes.
1:06:52

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And the costumes were kind of leathery Mardi Gras type costumes? [Mitchell] Oh, well it was every sort of sexual fantasy that you could have And the costumes were kind of leathery Mardi Gras type costumes? [Mitchell] Oh, well it was every sort of sexual fantasy that you could have
1:06:58

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which is of course which is of course
1:06:59

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what is happening in Venusberg. what is happening in Venusberg.
1:07:00

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So you go to Vensuberg to explore your sexual fantasies. Interestingly enough that was the production, So you go to Vensuberg to explore your sexual fantasies. Interestingly enough that was the production,
1:07:11

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that was my first opera and that, talking about biffo, Elke and the conductor just went for one another hammer that was my first opera and that, talking about biffo, Elke and the conductor just went for one another hammer
1:07:17

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and tongs. [Portus] She often fights with her conductor? [Mitchell] She had often but thankfully and tongs. [Portus] She often fights with her conductor? [Mitchell] She had often but thankfully
1:07:24

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not in The Ring. But he would say, I can't remember his name but we called him the Swiss pretender, he would say no, no not in The Ring. But he would say, I can't remember his name but we called him the Swiss pretender, he would say no, no
1:07:34

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the dominatrix cannot crack her whip because we can't guarantee that the crack will happen on the beat. the dominatrix cannot crack her whip because we can't guarantee that the crack will happen on the beat.
1:07:40

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Or there was another scene where we had eight ducks that were... we fired ridiculously huge blunderbuss out and the eight ducks were supposed to drop from the ceiling. Or there was another scene where we had eight ducks that were... we fired ridiculously huge blunderbuss out and the eight ducks were supposed to drop from the ceiling.
1:07:50

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It was a joke. No we couldn't have eight ducks because they couldn't land musically. [Laughter - Martin Portus]. Anyway, It was a joke. No we couldn't have eight ducks because they couldn't land musically. [Laughter - Martin Portus]. Anyway,
1:07:58

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it ended up on the front page of the Herald this incredible biffo between Elke and this conductor, it ended up on the front page of the Herald this incredible biffo between Elke and this conductor,
1:08:03

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the Swiss pretender. Anyway. [Mitchell] You, um, you had trouble with the black phallus too, didn't you? [Mitchell] Well we did. [Portus] A complaint at least? [Mitchell] Well we did the Swiss pretender. Anyway. [Mitchell] You, um, you had trouble with the black phallus too, didn't you? [Mitchell] Well we did. [Portus] A complaint at least? [Mitchell] Well we did
1:08:15

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when we tried to remount. Tannhauser came back I think. Twice? Yes, and I remember sitting in the general manager's office saying when we tried to remount. Tannhauser came back I think. Twice? Yes, and I remember sitting in the general manager's office saying
1:08:27

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and in he was saying, will you. and in he was saying, will you.
1:08:29

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we can't have this black phallus, we've had complaints about it. And I'm saying you mean this black phallus which has been part of theatre culture we can't have this black phallus, we've had complaints about it. And I'm saying you mean this black phallus which has been part of theatre culture
1:08:35

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for over two thousand years and Sydney audiences cannot get their head around that? for over two thousand years and Sydney audiences cannot get their head around that?
1:08:42

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Anyway, it remained. [Portus] You had an ongoing collaboration with the opera director, Elke Neidhardt Anyway, it remained. [Portus] You had an ongoing collaboration with the opera director, Elke Neidhardt
1:08:49

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and also with Nick Schlieper who you mentioned. and also with Nick Schlieper who you mentioned.
1:08:53

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What's the, tell me about your collaboration with the lighting designer, you as the set designer What's the, tell me about your collaboration with the lighting designer, you as the set designer
1:09:00

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and indeed the costume designer too. The three of you, the process of how Tannhäuser and indeed the costume designer too. The three of you, the process of how Tannhäuser
1:09:07

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perhaps, how that best set costume perhaps, how that best set costume
1:09:09

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and lighting designers is actually developed. [Mitchell] Well Nick and I, just following that trace for a minute, Nick and lighting designers is actually developed. [Mitchell] Well Nick and I, just following that trace for a minute, Nick
1:09:18

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and I had meet on an opera that the Seymour group did called The Lighthouse, a Peter Maxwell Davies opera about and I had meet on an opera that the Seymour group did called The Lighthouse, a Peter Maxwell Davies opera about
1:09:27

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three lighthouse keepers which Louis Nowra directed. And we met three lighthouse keepers which Louis Nowra directed. And we met
1:09:35

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and we got on instantly. It was a fantastic relationship and we got on instantly. It was a fantastic relationship
1:09:40

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and then we, there was, I don't know, there was about a six year gap before we worked again together. I don't know why, it was just the way it panne out and then we, there was, I don't know, there was about a six year gap before we worked again together. I don't know why, it was just the way it panne out
1:09:53

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but we met for when our joint collaboration really started rolling was working with Simon Phillips but we met for when our joint collaboration really started rolling was working with Simon Phillips
1:10:01

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and the thing that sets Nick apart from certainly any other lighting designer in Australia is that his talent is given what he and the thing that sets Nick apart from certainly any other lighting designer in Australia is that his talent is given what he
1:10:14

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is interested in is or shall we say his skill base is a given, his interest is in the ideas of the production, is interested in is or shall we say his skill base is a given, his interest is in the ideas of the production,
1:10:22

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so he won't join a production unless he's actually at the table right from the beginning of the dialogue which of course so he won't join a production unless he's actually at the table right from the beginning of the dialogue which of course
1:10:28

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is the way collaboration should unfold. So in the dialogues with Simon, is the way collaboration should unfold. So in the dialogues with Simon,
1:10:35

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which was the first iteration of the relationship became three of us. which was the first iteration of the relationship became three of us.
1:10:41

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there was a great deal of dialogue, ongoing dialogue about, talking about the work but you don't say oh and Nick by the way there was a great deal of dialogue, ongoing dialogue about, talking about the work but you don't say oh and Nick by the way
1:10:50

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you'll light that in purple or to me, well think that should be eight metres high and grey. you'll light that in purple or to me, well think that should be eight metres high and grey.
1:10:58

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That's not the dialogue. The dialogue is about the ideas of the work That's not the dialogue. The dialogue is about the ideas of the work
1:11:01

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and each, you accept that each person is an expert in their area and and each, you accept that each person is an expert in their area and
1:11:07

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they will interpret or interpolate the discussion back into their particular area, they will interpret or interpolate the discussion back into their particular area,
1:11:13

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and that's certainly what happened with Simon. Simon is probably in many ways and that's certainly what happened with Simon. Simon is probably in many ways
1:11:23

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one of the most visually astute directors that I've worked with. Like he actually started as a graphic designer, one of the most visually astute directors that I've worked with. Like he actually started as a graphic designer,
1:11:31

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unless I had a whole Gillis, unless I had a whole Gillis,
1:11:33

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arm to his arsenal as it were. He really understood how to construct a visual image arm to his arsenal as it were. He really understood how to construct a visual image
1:11:40

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and I don't, unfortunately we don't work together anymore and I don't, unfortunately we don't work together anymore
1:11:43

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but he, we would have fantastic discussions in my kitchen at North Sydney developing shows, playing with bits cardboard, but he, we would have fantastic discussions in my kitchen at North Sydney developing shows, playing with bits cardboard,
1:11:56

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cutting things out, just really exploring visually what could happen cutting things out, just really exploring visually what could happen
1:12:02

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and sadly that's almost the only time that that's happened in my career. and sadly that's almost the only time that that's happened in my career.
1:12:07

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It's, [Portus] That rapport with a director? [Mitchell] That type of engagement with the director It's, [Portus] That rapport with a director? [Mitchell] That type of engagement with the director
1:12:12

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and that actual joint exploration of visual ideas in a visceral way as though you're actually literally sitting there going well why don't we try and that actual joint exploration of visual ideas in a visceral way as though you're actually literally sitting there going well why don't we try
1:12:21

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helvetica and we'll print some out and we'll cut it up and do.... So that was a really fabulous thing.  helvetica and we'll print some out and we'll cut it up and do.... So that was a really fabulous thing. 
1:12:27

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But without the director you had that rapport significantly with one or sometimes all three of the set, costume But without the director you had that rapport significantly with one or sometimes all three of the set, costume
1:12:34

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and lighting designers. and lighting designers.
1:12:36

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Yes, yeah, I mean in that but... well I think the first thing that the three of us did was Dead Funny Yes, yeah, I mean in that but... well I think the first thing that the three of us did was Dead Funny
1:12:43

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and I did the costumes on that as well. And the second piece was As You Like It. and I did the costumes on that as well. And the second piece was As You Like It.
1:12:52

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No. It was, it was Enfant Terrible and there was a Melbourne costume designer on that No. It was, it was Enfant Terrible and there was a Melbourne costume designer on that
1:13:05

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and which was again a terrific collaboration. [Portus] Was that and which was again a terrific collaboration. [Portus] Was that
1:13:09

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up at the STC? [Mitchell] Yeah. [Portus] In 95? [Mitchell] Yeah. [Portus] Let's talk about that a bit because that was a very stylish production with up at the STC? [Mitchell] Yeah. [Portus] In 95? [Mitchell] Yeah. [Portus] Let's talk about that a bit because that was a very stylish production with
1:13:18

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five very mannered performers, [Mitchell] yes, yeah, [Portus] in a kind of ragged taggle sort of gypsy home, [Mitchell] yeah, yeah, that's right, [Portus] that they were living in five very mannered performers, [Mitchell] yes, yeah, [Portus] in a kind of ragged taggle sort of gypsy home, [Mitchell] yeah, yeah, that's right, [Portus] that they were living in
1:13:26

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and the furniture and the, [Mitchell] yeah, [Portus]  doors crazily tilted, costumes quite sculptural. So that was a good collaborative and the furniture and the, [Mitchell] yeah, [Portus]  doors crazily tilted, costumes quite sculptural. So that was a good collaborative
1:13:37

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process, [Mitchell]  oh fantastic, [Portus] to deliver that, [MItchell] fantastic, [Portus] between you and Phillips and. [MItchell] Particularly between Nick and Simon and myself. process, [Mitchell]  oh fantastic, [Portus] to deliver that, [MItchell] fantastic, [Portus] between you and Phillips and. [MItchell] Particularly between Nick and Simon and myself.
1:13:43

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And Nick, on lights. [Mitchell] Because the designer was Melbourne-based and not with us very much of the time. And tended to be just drawings And Nick, on lights. [Mitchell] Because the designer was Melbourne-based and not with us very much of the time. And tended to be just drawings
1:13:50

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and friends arriving. Simon was having a dial up with her and friends arriving. Simon was having a dial up with her
1:13:55

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but we didn't have a huge amount of engagement. [Portus] The costume designer? [Mitchell]  Yes, the costume designer and I can't, I'm sorry I can't remember the name. But, but after Dead Funny, but we didn't have a huge amount of engagement. [Portus] The costume designer? [Mitchell]  Yes, the costume designer and I can't, I'm sorry I can't remember the name. But, but after Dead Funny,
1:14:07

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the thing that happened on Dead Funny which essentially is about people a group of people that love British comedy and re-enact scenes the thing that happened on Dead Funny which essentially is about people a group of people that love British comedy and re-enact scenes
1:14:13

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in their lounge room, in their lounge room,
1:14:16

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We realised, as a group that we had a similar sense of humour We realised, as a group that we had a similar sense of humour
1:14:19

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and that there are many things that... we found was a great bond because there were lots of things we were laughing at all and that there are many things that... we found was a great bond because there were lots of things we were laughing at all
1:14:26

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through. But also I think Simon, because of his very nature, knew where I wanted to go visually through. But also I think Simon, because of his very nature, knew where I wanted to go visually
1:14:39

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and very much embraced that and gave a great, a great support and critical eye to the things that I was developing. and very much embraced that and gave a great, a great support and critical eye to the things that I was developing.
1:14:53

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Whereas, just going back to Richard, I mean I think I had a profoundly strong relationship with Richard Whereas, just going back to Richard, I mean I think I had a profoundly strong relationship with Richard
1:14:60

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but he didn't actually say a great deal about... we would talk about the ideas of the design, but when it actually came  but he didn't actually say a great deal about... we would talk about the ideas of the design, but when it actually came 
1:15:05

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came to the detail that wasn't his bag. Certainly with the set, you know. But Simon, as I say, Simon was all over it came to the detail that wasn't his bag. Certainly with the set, you know. But Simon, as I say, Simon was all over it
1:15:15

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and it was, it, we would bounce off one another in terms of the development of the visual idea. and it was, it, we would bounce off one another in terms of the development of the visual idea.
1:15:22

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[ Portus]nd Nick Schlieper is the godparent to your daughter? [MItchell] Yes, [ Portus]nd Nick Schlieper is the godparent to your daughter? [MItchell] Yes,
1:15:27

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godfather. [Portus] Along with the late Jenny Tate, yes, costume designer, [Mitchell] yes, yeah, [Portus] who you worked with a lot. godfather. [Portus] Along with the late Jenny Tate, yes, costume designer, [Mitchell] yes, yeah, [Portus] who you worked with a lot.
1:15:33

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Yes, dear old Jenny. But she, she, in fact Jenny and I didn't do a huge number of things together. We did Rome Tremble at STC that Helmut Yes, dear old Jenny. But she, she, in fact Jenny and I didn't do a huge number of things together. We did Rome Tremble at STC that Helmut
1:15:48

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directed. And then we did Andre Chenier which was, oh I think a pretty terrific production which Elke had directed directed. And then we did Andre Chenier which was, oh I think a pretty terrific production which Elke had directed
1:15:59

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and Jenny did the costumes. And that was very much a very strong collaboration between the four members of that team. and Jenny did the costumes. And that was very much a very strong collaboration between the four members of that team.
1:16:08

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We might come to that a bit later. That was a work you did in 2001 We might come to that a bit later. That was a work you did in 2001
1:16:12

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and one, yeah, for the Opera Conference, that, that opera about the French Revolution. I'd just like to stay can we just paint a few and one, yeah, for the Opera Conference, that, that opera about the French Revolution. I'd just like to stay can we just paint a few
1:16:20

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pictures of what your work was like in the '90s with the STC mostly. We talked about L'Enfant Terrible. pictures of what your work was like in the '90s with the STC mostly. We talked about L'Enfant Terrible.
1:16:29

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[Mitchell] Yes. [Portus] And then you did the next year [Mitchell] Yes. [Portus] And then you did the next year
1:16:34

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The Life of Galileo, [Mitchell] yes, [Portus] with Wherrett, yeah, which I remember was an outstanding production. The Life of Galileo, [Mitchell] yes, [Portus] with Wherrett, yeah, which I remember was an outstanding production.
1:16:39

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Yeah. I can't remember the set but ah that's probably a good thing. [Mitchell] That's probably a good thing. Actually, funny that you should Yeah. I can't remember the set but ah that's probably a good thing. [Mitchell] That's probably a good thing. Actually, funny that you should
1:16:45

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So the because was actually very compensated with a lot of moving parts. So the because was actually very compensated with a lot of moving parts.
1:16:49

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So it's good that it just, you know. [Laughter] [Portus] All right, OK. I mean just as So it's good that it just, you know. [Laughter] [Portus] All right, OK. I mean just as
1:16:53

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you did A Hard God actually, yes, with the State Theatre Company of South Australia in '97  which I raise because it's a Michael you did A Hard God actually, yes, with the State Theatre Company of South Australia in '97  which I raise because it's a Michael
1:17:00

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Edwards production of Peter Canard's 1973 play, a very naturalistic play about an Irish Australian Edwards production of Peter Canard's 1973 play, a very naturalistic play about an Irish Australian
1:17:09

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working class home usually done with a kitchen working class home usually done with a kitchen
1:17:12

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and a back alley. Um, um. You did a totally minimalist, yes, wooden platform with a rather heavy symbol of a cross, um, over the and a back alley. Um, um. You did a totally minimalist, yes, wooden platform with a rather heavy symbol of a cross, um, over the
1:17:23

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top of it. So you're sweeping away that kind of detail, that specificity of the story. top of it. So you're sweeping away that kind of detail, that specificity of the story.
1:17:32

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Yes, although the furniture, and from memory it was only a table and two or three chairs Yes, although the furniture, and from memory it was only a table and two or three chairs
1:17:43

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and the hand props and everything were absolutely real and the hand props and everything were absolutely real
1:17:47

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and I should find that much more potent in jacks have again almost an empty space, and I should find that much more potent in jacks have again almost an empty space,
1:17:52

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where there a few objects that are actually very finely detailed. I think that can have a stronger resonance where there a few objects that are actually very finely detailed. I think that can have a stronger resonance
1:17:58

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than now let's build the wall, now let's do the door, let's do the whatever. It actually also had a kind of, than now let's build the wall, now let's do the door, let's do the whatever. It actually also had a kind of,
1:18:05

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it had Kabuki runways to that central raked platform. So it was very, I mean in many ways it was very stylised it had Kabuki runways to that central raked platform. So it was very, I mean in many ways it was very stylised
1:18:14

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but actually I think it worked. It's one of the shows that I have quite fond memories of. but actually I think it worked. It's one of the shows that I have quite fond memories of.
1:18:21

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[Portus] It's interesting. It's 1973 play written about life in about 1943. [Mitchell] Yeah. [Portus]And you're performing it [Portus] It's interesting. It's 1973 play written about life in about 1943. [Mitchell] Yeah. [Portus]And you're performing it
1:18:27

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yet again. You're updating the play where you're performing it in a modern production year. [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah. yet again. You're updating the play where you're performing it in a modern production year. [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah.
1:18:34

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And I think that might have been the first piece that I did with Michael, maybe. No maybe we'd done Puccini's Spectacular prior to that. [Portus] But And I think that might have been the first piece that I did with Michael, maybe. No maybe we'd done Puccini's Spectacular prior to that. [Portus] But
1:18:43

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Navigating you did by the Australian writer, Kath Thompson. [Mitchell] Yes. [Portus] I raise because it's a play about Australian values Navigating you did by the Australian writer, Kath Thompson. [Mitchell] Yes. [Portus] I raise because it's a play about Australian values
1:18:50

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and whistle blowers and whistle blowers
1:18:52

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and you set it in a, true to its title of Navigating I suppose, an abstracted shipwreck, of bleached bones. [Mitchell] Mm. and you set it in a, true to its title of Navigating I suppose, an abstracted shipwreck, of bleached bones. [Mitchell] Mm.
1:18:60

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like some stranded monster. [Mitchell] Mm. [Portus] It must be, it must be nice playing with that kind of abstraction. [Mitchell] Yes like some stranded monster. [Mitchell] Mm. [Portus] It must be, it must be nice playing with that kind of abstraction. [Mitchell] Yes
1:19:10

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Yeah, I mean look I, I, it's funny looking back at a career and I guess you know let's say conservatively a hundred Yeah, I mean look I, I, it's funny looking back at a career and I guess you know let's say conservatively a hundred
1:19:21

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and fifty shows, there are periods in time when I am exploring particular things and fifty shows, there are periods in time when I am exploring particular things
1:19:31

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and I think like any artist you, you become, I won't say obsessed but you, and I think like any artist you, you become, I won't say obsessed but you,
1:19:41

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There are certain things that you explore and revisit and revisit There are certain things that you explore and revisit and revisit
1:19:44

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and re-evaluate. You also build, and I say this to the students a lot, part of your job is to build your vocabulary so that you and re-evaluate. You also build, and I say this to the students a lot, part of your job is to build your vocabulary so that you
1:19:56

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can actually draw on more and more. Ultimately I think bring more subtlety to your work. The more sophisticated your can actually draw on more and more. Ultimately I think bring more subtlety to your work. The more sophisticated your
1:20:07

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vocabulary becomes the lighter of touch you can become in terms of the things that you put down. vocabulary becomes the lighter of touch you can become in terms of the things that you put down.
1:20:14

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But it's certainly true that for me one of things in that production But it's certainly true that for me one of things in that production
1:20:21

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and it's true of quite a lot of writing I think, they're almost written for.... there'd be a version of that you could do and it's true of quite a lot of writing I think, they're almost written for.... there'd be a version of that you could do
1:20:29

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for television because it goes you know scene, scene, scene, scene in a whole variety of different places. for television because it goes you know scene, scene, scene, scene in a whole variety of different places.
1:20:36

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Well, okay you can do that and I could do that as a machine on a stage. But what would be the point. Well, okay you can do that and I could do that as a machine on a stage. But what would be the point.
1:20:42

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Whereas if you can actually again. Whereas if you can actually again.
1:20:45

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draw out something that is an underlying image that keeps reminding the audience of what actually are the... what's something draw out something that is an underlying image that keeps reminding the audience of what actually are the... what's something
1:20:56

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that actually has driven this drama and is a, is almost like a kind of ghost in the background that actually has driven this drama and is a, is almost like a kind of ghost in the background
1:21:01

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That is haunting these people and, of course, That is haunting these people and, of course,
1:21:05

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in that particular piece the, the shipwreck of the ferry had haunted a number of lives and lives had been lost and whatever in that particular piece the, the shipwreck of the ferry had haunted a number of lives and lives had been lost and whatever
1:21:17

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so it was a, as you say, a kind of wreck of a hull of a ship, bone coloured so it was a, as you say, a kind of wreck of a hull of a ship, bone coloured
1:21:26

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but then filled again with sand so it actually, it was actually a sand landscape that had the remnants of this shipwreck but then filled again with sand so it actually, it was actually a sand landscape that had the remnants of this shipwreck
1:21:33

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pushing through. But I again, similar to what we were just saying about A Hard God. pushing through. But I again, similar to what we were just saying about A Hard God.
1:21:41

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I, actually in a theatrical sense, I, actually in a theatrical sense,
1:21:45

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I think that it's a version of an empty stage, in that essentially it was a sand landscape, that used the use the hull of I think that it's a version of an empty stage, in that essentially it was a sand landscape, that used the use the hull of
1:21:57

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the ship as a series of steps to give height to the ship as a series of steps to give height to
1:21:60

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to the space to the space
1:22:01

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but really it was about building a useful good performance base, regardless of the fact that it actually had a naturalistic but really it was about building a useful good performance base, regardless of the fact that it actually had a naturalistic
1:22:11

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through line. That kind of takes care of itself. through line. That kind of takes care of itself.
1:22:13

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But If you actually set up a space that is potent and usable But If you actually set up a space that is potent and usable
1:22:17

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and gives opportunity for the director to have height and different entrances and whatever, then that's a big part of the and gives opportunity for the director to have height and different entrances and whatever, then that's a big part of the
1:22:26

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equation. [Portus] That's very valuable you talking about those practicalities that you need to do to create a performing space equation. [Portus] That's very valuable you talking about those practicalities that you need to do to create a performing space
1:22:35

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and there's also the expressionist potential of being a designer I suppose with A Delicate Balance in '98 and there's also the expressionist potential of being a designer I suppose with A Delicate Balance in '98
1:22:44

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by the STC directed by Philips again, [Um] The Alby play. by the STC directed by Philips again, [Um] The Alby play.
1:22:48

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This was a very monumental set I gather. It sort of teetered on bad taste of the overly rich [Yes] that it was about This was a very monumental set I gather. It sort of teetered on bad taste of the overly rich [Yes] that it was about
1:22:58

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but also the instability [Yes] of them was reflected in the set I gather, of the play's protagonists. but also the instability [Yes] of them was reflected in the set I gather, of the play's protagonists.
1:23:07

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It was that you're expressing the psychology of the. [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean it, It was that you're expressing the psychology of the. [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean it,
1:23:11

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It was essentially as you say, very wealthy people who had built them a monument to themselves with sculptures It was essentially as you say, very wealthy people who had built them a monument to themselves with sculptures
1:23:23

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and lavish furnishings. And as the piece went on the walls gradually drifted away and so they were left without the walls, and lavish furnishings. And as the piece went on the walls gradually drifted away and so they were left without the walls,
1:23:32

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but the furniture and the Scots and things that was run this acid becomes bleaker but the furniture and the Scots and things that was run this acid becomes bleaker
1:23:37

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and more um... reality becomes less tangible, the space reflected that same. [Portus] That's a profound if you like intrusion of the nature of and more um... reality becomes less tangible, the space reflected that same. [Portus] That's a profound if you like intrusion of the nature of
1:23:49

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the space on the, on the play's direction isn't it. [Mitchell] mmm [Portus] I can see why you must have started early in the kitchen with the space on the, on the play's direction isn't it. [Mitchell] mmm [Portus] I can see why you must have started early in the kitchen with
1:23:58

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Simon Phillips [Mitchell] Yes [Portus] with that idea. [Mitchell] Yeah. But I mean that's, by that stage Simon Phillips [Mitchell] Yes [Portus] with that idea. [Mitchell] Yeah. But I mean that's, by that stage
1:24:04

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Simon and I were very much on the same page about where we wanted to explore. Jump cutting to the second time I did Long Day's Journey Simon and I were very much on the same page about where we wanted to explore. Jump cutting to the second time I did Long Day's Journey
1:24:12

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Into Night for STC, the same principle. There was a fillet Into Night for STC, the same principle. There was a fillet
1:24:18

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if you like of the house that was actually taken from the real house. [Portus] Eugene O'Neill's play [Mitchell] Yes if you like of the house that was actually taken from the real house. [Portus] Eugene O'Neill's play [Mitchell] Yes
1:24:24

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This time you did it in America or?[Mitchell] Yes and This time you did it in America or?[Mitchell] Yes and
1:24:28

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it was done at the Sydney Theatre, now the Ros Packer, and then went to America, to Portland. it was done at the Sydney Theatre, now the Ros Packer, and then went to America, to Portland.
1:24:35

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But essentially as she moves further into her drug addled state the back wall of the house moved very, very, very, very But essentially as she moves further into her drug addled state the back wall of the house moved very, very, very, very
1:24:49

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slowly over the course of I think it was about an hour, so slowly that is imperceptible, slowly over the course of I think it was about an hour, so slowly that is imperceptible,
1:24:58

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but By the time she arrives finally completely drug huddled she is an in provision, an empty space but By the time she arrives finally completely drug huddled she is an in provision, an empty space
1:25:07

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and it's fascinating that my sister, Lindsay, saw a performance at the Sydney Theatre and it's fascinating that my sister, Lindsay, saw a performance at the Sydney Theatre
1:25:12

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and I said 'and how did you feel about the back wall?' And she said 'well what about the back wall?' I said well it started right down stage and by the end of the play and I said 'and how did you feel about the back wall?' And she said 'well what about the back wall?' I said well it started right down stage and by the end of the play
1:25:20

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it was right on the back wall and it had travelled you know whatever it was, fifteen metres. She hadn't noticed it at all. it was right on the back wall and it had travelled you know whatever it was, fifteen metres. She hadn't noticed it at all.
1:25:28

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But she knew that there'd been a psychological shift in the space but she couldn't tell me what it was. So this is the... and for me But she knew that there'd been a psychological shift in the space but she couldn't tell me what it was. So this is the... and for me
1:25:39

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there is a sweet spot in there. there is a sweet spot in there.
1:25:41

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There is about....there is a spot where you are underscoring something psychologically There is about....there is a spot where you are underscoring something psychologically
1:25:48

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but you're not doing it so loudly that the horses are scared. And that includes I think for an Australian audience, but you're not doing it so loudly that the horses are scared. And that includes I think for an Australian audience,
1:25:59

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Yes, there's the arm suspension of disbelief but there is also a connection back to reality, Yes, there's the arm suspension of disbelief but there is also a connection back to reality,
1:26:12

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which I think Australian audiences often need or crave for in a way that perhaps other audiences don't. So in other which I think Australian audiences often need or crave for in a way that perhaps other audiences don't. So in other
1:26:22

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words it's the [Portus] a connection to reality? [Mitchell] a fillet of naturalism words it's the [Portus] a connection to reality? [Mitchell] a fillet of naturalism
1:26:27

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or a fillet or something that they can identify with to hook them in. And and as a designer I find in my own work or a fillet or something that they can identify with to hook them in. And and as a designer I find in my own work
1:26:37

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where is that balance? At what point can I actually take them to somewhere really abstract? Or where is that balance? At what point can I actually take them to somewhere really abstract? Or
1:26:45

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and this is another conversation in a way because I think there is a strand of theatre at the moment in Australia which is and this is another conversation in a way because I think there is a strand of theatre at the moment in Australia which is
1:26:55

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deeply rooted in the desire for naturalism, whilst there is also another strand that is completely other. deeply rooted in the desire for naturalism, whilst there is also another strand that is completely other.
1:27:03

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And they have quite different audiences, but I mean I guess [Portus] The two strands have been going on for decades do you mean? [Mitchell] They have And they have quite different audiences, but I mean I guess [Portus] The two strands have been going on for decades do you mean? [Mitchell] They have
1:27:11

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but I think there is a, I think there is a conservatism in the arts at the moment in Australia, not just Australia but but I think there is a, I think there is a conservatism in the arts at the moment in Australia, not just Australia but
1:27:18

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Cloverlea and part of that is a thing for something of a taxi understandably teeth into Hungary, Cloverlea and part of that is a thing for something of a taxi understandably teeth into Hungary,
1:27:27

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and go yes, I understand that that's a room. and go yes, I understand that that's a room.
1:27:28

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Yes, I understand that that's a chair, Yes, I understand that that's a chair,
1:27:31

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Which can be limiting. Which can which can kind of take you into a place that I don't, we'll get to the more recent Which can be limiting. Which can which can kind of take you into a place that I don't, we'll get to the more recent
1:27:40

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operas, but when, I find it fascinating looking at a Ring Cycle from 2006 and now say for example my Tosca operas, but when, I find it fascinating looking at a Ring Cycle from 2006 and now say for example my Tosca
1:27:50

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where the company and Lyndon absolutely wanted where the company and Lyndon absolutely wanted
1:27:55

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and needed it to look as real as possible. [Portus] Lyndon Terracini? [Mitchell] yeah [Portus] about your Tosca? [Mitchell] yeah [Portus] which you're doing now in between? and needed it to look as real as possible. [Portus] Lyndon Terracini? [Mitchell] yeah [Portus] about your Tosca? [Mitchell] yeah [Portus] which you're doing now in between?
1:28:02

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No, we'll it's been on this year but we did it a couple of years ago originally. No, we'll it's been on this year but we did it a couple of years ago originally.
1:28:07

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And he... they had done a production, I think it was from ENO which Australian audiences did not like. Which was, let's just say more And he... they had done a production, I think it was from ENO which Australian audiences did not like. Which was, let's just say more
1:28:21

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abstract. [Portus] From the English National Opera? [Mitchell] Yes and he, they, it had terrible houses. They lost a lot of money. abstract. [Portus] From the English National Opera? [Mitchell] Yes and he, they, it had terrible houses. They lost a lot of money.
1:28:31

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So when he commissioned this new Tosca, he said, actually after a long period of time, So when he commissioned this new Tosca, he said, actually after a long period of time,
1:28:37

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he said it has to be absolutely real in insofar as Owens has to go. he said it has to be absolutely real in insofar as Owens has to go.
1:28:43

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there's the church, ah there's Scarpia's office, ah oh there's, you know, there's the church, ah there's Scarpia's office, ah oh there's, you know,
1:28:48

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where, where they get shot finally. [Portus] So as Artistic Director of Opera Australia where, where they get shot finally. [Portus] So as Artistic Director of Opera Australia
1:28:53

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he set you the parameters. [Mitchell] Yes, interestingly he set you the parameters. [Mitchell] Yes, interestingly
1:28:57

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I was Tosca Mark 2 because I had done another scheme which was more abstract I was Tosca Mark 2 because I had done another scheme which was more abstract
1:29:03

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but still had, ah it was based on a Fascist building in Rome, the building that has a series of arches but still had, ah it was based on a Fascist building in Rome, the building that has a series of arches
1:29:13

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and so you could identify it as a structure and something that reminded you of a building that you had seen in Rome, and so you could identify it as a structure and something that reminded you of a building that you had seen in Rome,
1:29:22

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but it was a unit set. It revolved and so the three Acts were done within this. It was a sculpture, a performance sculpture if you like. but it was a unit set. It revolved and so the three Acts were done within this. It was a sculpture, a performance sculpture if you like.
1:29:31

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And he really struggled with it because he thought I'm going to do it to my audience again. And he really struggled with it because he thought I'm going to do it to my audience again.
1:29:41

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I can't afford to go there, anyway long story short, I can't afford to go there, anyway long story short,
1:29:45

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he asked me to re, redesign. It's the only time I've been asked to redesign but, he asked me to re, redesign. It's the only time I've been asked to redesign but,
1:29:51

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and of course to his credit he knew his audience well enough to go give them the gilt work, give them the church, and of course to his credit he knew his audience well enough to go give them the gilt work, give them the church,
1:29:60

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give them the this.... Of course I ended up doing it through my own filter but it's a very, it's a slice give them the this.... Of course I ended up doing it through my own filter but it's a very, it's a slice
1:30:10

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through something real. through something real.
1:30:12

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Yes, set up in an interesting way and whatever, but audiences absolutely loved it Yes, set up in an interesting way and whatever, but audiences absolutely loved it
1:30:17

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and the number of people that have said I think that's one of your best designs ever and yet on a certain level and the number of people that have said I think that's one of your best designs ever and yet on a certain level
1:30:23

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it's actually just reproducing a piece of architecture. So, which took thousands of hours of looking at photos it's actually just reproducing a piece of architecture. So, which took thousands of hours of looking at photos
1:30:31

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of the real church and building it in, in virtual 3-D and on and on and on. [Portus] Let's talk Shakespeare. Um. You've done a lot of work with the Bell of the real church and building it in, in virtual 3-D and on and on and on. [Portus] Let's talk Shakespeare. Um. You've done a lot of work with the Bell
1:30:39

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Shakespeare Company and in '92 you designed Hamlet, Richard III, Merchant of Venice. Um. Shakespeare Company and in '92 you designed Hamlet, Richard III, Merchant of Venice. Um.
1:30:50

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All three are recently done again by the company, but all three done in that year. Um. All three are recently done again by the company, but all three done in that year. Um.
1:30:55

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How are you going then and later in finding a stage language for Shakespeare? [Mitchell] Well the original two productions How are you going then and later in finding a stage language for Shakespeare? [Mitchell] Well the original two productions
1:31:07

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which were Merchant of Venice which were Merchant of Venice
1:31:08

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and Hamlet were intended to be in a tent, ended up in the Hordern Pavilion in a tent. So. [Portus] These were the first and Hamlet were intended to be in a tent, ended up in the Hordern Pavilion in a tent. So. [Portus] These were the first
1:31:19

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productions [Mitchell] Yes [Portus] themselves of the Bell Shakespeare Company, [Mitchel] Yeah [Portus] weren't they? productions [Mitchell] Yes [Portus] themselves of the Bell Shakespeare Company, [Mitchel] Yeah [Portus] weren't they?
1:31:21

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[Portus] I saw the one in Hamlet in a tent. [Mitchell] Yes. A tent inside the Hordern Pavilion. Go figure! But it was a harking back to, to a [Portus] I saw the one in Hamlet in a tent. [Mitchell] Yes. A tent inside the Hordern Pavilion. Go figure! But it was a harking back to, to a
1:31:31

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production that Richard had done in a tent, Shakespeare, many years earlier production that Richard had done in a tent, Shakespeare, many years earlier
1:31:36

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and I think he just wanted to, to re-explore that. [Portus] Richard Wherrett was directing it again? [Mitchell] No, John Bell. [Portus] John Bell was. [Mitchell] Yeah. and I think he just wanted to, to re-explore that. [Portus] Richard Wherrett was directing it again? [Mitchell] No, John Bell. [Portus] John Bell was. [Mitchell] Yeah.
1:31:43

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John, did John do both? John, did John do both?
1:31:48

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Yes, he did. No, John did Hamlet and... the director's name escapes me, did Merchant of Venice Yes, he did. No, John did Hamlet and... the director's name escapes me, did Merchant of Venice
1:31:60

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and John was Shylock in Merchant. But it was that period in time, '91, when I and John was Shylock in Merchant. But it was that period in time, '91, when I
1:32:08

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think I had done Superstar. They were sort of book ends because in a way the things that I had been exploring with a lot think I had done Superstar. They were sort of book ends because in a way the things that I had been exploring with a lot
1:32:19

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more money in Superstar, were the sort of things that I was exploring in the round more money in Superstar, were the sort of things that I was exploring in the round
1:32:23

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in that tent. To do with setting up the space in that tent. To do with setting up the space
1:32:28

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and the decision was taken at the end of that season to move into proscenium theatres. and the decision was taken at the end of that season to move into proscenium theatres.
1:32:36

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These were shows that had been designed in-the-round in a tent. So the transfer into a proscenium arch was not a natural fit, These were shows that had been designed in-the-round in a tent. So the transfer into a proscenium arch was not a natural fit,
1:32:44

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but it actually led to quite an interesting design evolution, but probably  not one I would have taken in the first but it actually led to quite an interesting design evolution, but probably  not one I would have taken in the first
1:32:52

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instance, instance,
1:32:53

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But essentially again exploring literally a disc in a space that had various means of arriving at that disk But essentially again exploring literally a disc in a space that had various means of arriving at that disk
1:33:05

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and elevation above the disk. and elevation above the disk.
1:33:08

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and then using [Portus] A disc as in audience all around? [Mitchell] Yes, audience all around. They were designed in-the-round. and then using [Portus] A disc as in audience all around? [Mitchell] Yes, audience all around. They were designed in-the-round.
1:33:16

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But actually I think they both had their own merits in lots of different ways, But actually I think they both had their own merits in lots of different ways,
1:33:23

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but particularly again going back to the empty space. but particularly again going back to the empty space.
1:33:27

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In essence for delivering those works. The Richard the Third was the first production In essence for delivering those works. The Richard the Third was the first production
1:33:35

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we did literally from scratch, and working with Sue Field who is now 2-IC in design at NIDA. we did literally from scratch, and working with Sue Field who is now 2-IC in design at NIDA.
1:33:44

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And in those days the Bell Shakespeare was very well funded And in those days the Bell Shakespeare was very well funded
1:33:49

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and we had, particularly the costume budgets were extraordinary. [Portus] In its first years? [Mitchell] In its first years. There was a and we had, particularly the costume budgets were extraordinary. [Portus] In its first years? [Mitchell] In its first years. There was a
1:33:57

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lot of private philanthropic money put into the company. So Richard III in terms of costuming was avery lot of private philanthropic money put into the company. So Richard III in terms of costuming was avery
1:34:06

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lavish production and Sue, who's you know not shy in holding back, just went for it lavish production and Sue, who's you know not shy in holding back, just went for it
1:34:15

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and it's kind of pretty extraordinary in its own way. But that, that kind of developed into a long period of working with John and it's kind of pretty extraordinary in its own way. But that, that kind of developed into a long period of working with John
1:34:27

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and I think we, can't remember exactly how many and I think we, can't remember exactly how many
1:34:31

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but are quite a number of instructions we did together over particular the first four years of the company 's life but are quite a number of instructions we did together over particular the first four years of the company 's life
1:34:38

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and then I left. Well didn't go back to the company for quite a while. and then I left. Well didn't go back to the company for quite a while.
1:34:44

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I went back I went back
1:34:44

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and did another production of Merchant with Richard Wherrett. I think in total in different variations I did and did another production of Merchant with Richard Wherrett. I think in total in different variations I did
1:34:53

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about eleven shows for them. Some of them were repeats but reconfigured. [Portus] I'd like to talk about it about eleven shows for them. Some of them were repeats but reconfigured. [Portus] I'd like to talk about it
1:34:60

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It's interesting that you went back to do Merchant of Venice [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] with Wherrett in '99 It's interesting that you went back to do Merchant of Venice [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] with Wherrett in '99
1:35:05

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and I'd like to talk about that. But working with Bell in the earlier Merchant or otherwise, what's, and I'd like to talk about that. But working with Bell in the earlier Merchant or otherwise, what's,
1:35:12

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what did you, was he a mentor in a way as an actor and a director? what did you, was he a mentor in a way as an actor and a director?
1:35:16

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He hears a mental law and fact we continue to work together. He hears a mental law and fact we continue to work together.
1:35:22

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after having quite a long break,  when he was offered his first opera,  which was Tosca, after having quite a long break,  when he was offered his first opera,  which was Tosca,
1:35:29

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he asked me to do it. He, he's a funny bugger. I mean he, he, we're doing a show at Ensemble he asked me to do it. He, he's a funny bugger. I mean he, he, we're doing a show at Ensemble
1:35:39

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and I've now done lots of shows with them anyways.  I now realise it's his process, and I've now done lots of shows with them anyways.  I now realise it's his process,
1:35:45

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but he turned up for the first meeting, this is a show at the Ensemble in May of next year, [Portus] called? [Mitchell]  it hasn't been released so I can't tell you  but he turned up for the first meeting, this is a show at the Ensemble in May of next year, [Portus] called? [Mitchell]  it hasn't been released so I can't tell you 
1:35:53

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what it is what it is
1:35:53

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but anyway... Essentially it's, essentially it's a duet for him and John Gaden. But John turned up at the first meeting, oh we but anyway... Essentially it's, essentially it's a duet for him and John Gaden. But John turned up at the first meeting, oh we
1:36:05

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must meet, we must meet, pressing, pressing, pressing. Like it's an Ensemble show, it's May next year, it's must meet, we must meet, pressing, pressing, pressing. Like it's an Ensemble show, it's May next year, it's
1:36:12

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you know, so he turns up for the first meeting, now I don't, I don't want to tell you how to design a set but I have done a sketch [laughter] you know, so he turns up for the first meeting, now I don't, I don't want to tell you how to design a set but I have done a sketch [laughter]
1:36:18

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and I've now framed that sketch.  and I've now framed that sketch. 
1:36:20

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And I know that's just his way of going, as an actor going... from an actor's point of view, And I know that's just his way of going, as an actor going... from an actor's point of view,
1:36:27

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these are the things I think I'm going to need and you know you can go: but John there's a better way of doing that. these are the things I think I'm going to need and you know you can go: but John there's a better way of doing that.
1:36:34

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Oh you think? Oh yes. No, no that would be good. But he needs to go through that process of going Oh you think? Oh yes. No, no that would be good. But he needs to go through that process of going
1:36:40

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but it doesn't need very much. It just needs a desk here and a chair there and a filing cabinet there. but it doesn't need very much. It just needs a desk here and a chair there and a filing cabinet there.
1:36:44

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So you get this list So you get this list
1:36:47

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and, and I actually think of it very fondly because it's, it's his process [Portus] As an actor not as a director? [Mitchell] as an actor. As a and, and I actually think of it very fondly because it's, it's his process [Portus] As an actor not as a director? [Mitchell] as an actor. As a
1:36:57

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a director thinking through the lens of an actor, knowing that he is going to be one of the two principal actors in a director thinking through the lens of an actor, knowing that he is going to be one of the two principal actors in
1:37:02

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and am thinking about what we actually need in the space. and am thinking about what we actually need in the space.
1:37:05

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So in other words, it's what are the things I'm actually going to come in contact with? So in other words, it's what are the things I'm actually going to come in contact with?
1:37:10

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and what's the relationship of those objects to the audience and to me?  And that's his processing. So and what's the relationship of those objects to the audience and to me?  And that's his processing. So
1:37:19

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and I say that fondly, because I am very fond of him  and I say that fondly, because I am very fond of him 
1:37:23

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but I, I, it's taken me... a younger designer might go: well I just have to do what he says. But I think you know, but I, I, it's taken me... a younger designer might go: well I just have to do what he says. But I think you know,
1:37:33

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I know him well enough to know that that is the process and that that's actually I now need to respond to that indeed that's I know him well enough to know that that is the process and that that's actually I now need to respond to that indeed that's
1:37:41

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the processes has continued. [Portus] I wanted to ask you about actors as mentors [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] when you, the processes has continued. [Portus] I wanted to ask you about actors as mentors [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] when you,
1:37:47

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when you talked admiringly of Ruth Cracknell [Yeah] and indeed now John Bell, when you talked admiringly of Ruth Cracknell [Yeah] and indeed now John Bell,
1:37:52

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what can a designer learn from an actor that's different from perhaps from a director what can a designer learn from an actor that's different from perhaps from a director
1:38:01

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or the other collaborations that you have on creative teams? I think a large part of a designer's job as being a or the other collaborations that you have on creative teams? I think a large part of a designer's job as being a
1:38:09

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psychologist psychologist
1:38:11

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and learning to read the language of the actor to understand what are the things that are being driven by their anxiety. and learning to read the language of the actor to understand what are the things that are being driven by their anxiety.
1:38:22

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What are the things that they're genuinely concerned about? What are the things that they physically feel they need in a What are the things that they're genuinely concerned about? What are the things that they physically feel they need in a
1:38:30

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space to make it work for them. space to make it work for them.
1:38:32

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And of course the things that they're identifying are important, And of course the things that they're identifying are important,
1:38:38

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but the resolution of how to service that can be radically different to what they are actually expressing. So I would but the resolution of how to service that can be radically different to what they are actually expressing. So I would
1:38:44

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typify that by saying often their expressions are very literal typify that by saying often their expressions are very literal
1:38:49

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and yet I will come back with a solution that is non literal. and yet I will come back with a solution that is non literal.
1:38:53

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And by way of example Essie Davies played Juliet in the Romeo and Juliet that we did with Bell, which John directed And by way of example Essie Davies played Juliet in the Romeo and Juliet that we did with Bell, which John directed
1:39:03

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and we were in the rehearsal room, in fact I think Stephen Curtis designed the costumes for this piece, oh no, Judith ?Hobnell? and we were in the rehearsal room, in fact I think Stephen Curtis designed the costumes for this piece, oh no, Judith ?Hobnell?
1:39:12

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and Essie said: but Michael  and Essie said: but Michael 
1:39:16

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you haven't given me a hand rail on the balcony. And the balcony was a very abstract thing indeed. A floating stainless steel you haven't given me a hand rail on the balcony. And the balcony was a very abstract thing indeed. A floating stainless steel
1:39:23

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something or other in mid air. I was actually trying to get her to float. And she said: but there's, where's the balcony rail? And I said oh something or other in mid air. I was actually trying to get her to float. And she said: but there's, where's the balcony rail? And I said oh
1:39:32

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You seem to have a very good impression of that balcony rail in your mind You seem to have a very good impression of that balcony rail in your mind
1:39:37

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and she went, being a very smart girl, she went: are you asking whether I can act? And there was no more discussion about the balcony rail. [Laughter] and she went, being a very smart girl, she went: are you asking whether I can act? And there was no more discussion about the balcony rail. [Laughter]
1:39:48

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Verify
[Portus] But ah. But you do, your answer suggests a tending to herd actors into bigger boundaries of design concepts [Mitchell] Yes [Portus] But ah. But you do, your answer suggests a tending to herd actors into bigger boundaries of design concepts [Mitchell] Yes
1:39:58

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Verify
Concepts. You see their needs Concepts. You see their needs
1:40:03

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as fairly literal? [Mitchell] Often, not all by any means. Going back to Ruth Cracknell, I did Tom and Viv which ?Aubrey?  as fairly literal? [Mitchell] Often, not all by any means. Going back to Ruth Cracknell, I did Tom and Viv which ?Aubrey? 
1:40:13

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Verify
Miller directed for STC. And Ruth was playing T S Elliot's mother. Is that right? Yes, and Miller directed for STC. And Ruth was playing T S Elliot's mother. Is that right? Yes, and
1:40:26

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and Robyn Nevin was playing his wife. And we would have these conversations in the corridor, along the far corridor and Robyn Nevin was playing his wife. And we would have these conversations in the corridor, along the far corridor
1:40:35

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of the STC, and Ruth would come to me of the STC, and Ruth would come to me
1:40:38

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and say Michael, I've just heard that Robyn has another costume for that scene, do you think I should probably have a change of and say Michael, I've just heard that Robyn has another costume for that scene, do you think I should probably have a change of
1:40:46

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costume there? And then Robyn would come and say oh I understand Ruth has a new costume for that scene. Do you think I should have a new costume? costume there? And then Robyn would come and say oh I understand Ruth has a new costume for that scene. Do you think I should have a new costume?
1:40:55

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They just escalated off one another [Laughter] and the end result was Robyn ran offstage, quick change, ran on stage. They just escalated off one another [Laughter] and the end result was Robyn ran offstage, quick change, ran on stage.
1:41:04

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I think she had eleven costume changes at all. I think she had eleven costume changes at all.
1:41:08

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we would say oh well, well whatever they think they need. [Laughter] It was like, talk about a rod for her own back. But anyway it was kind of, we would say oh well, well whatever they think they need. [Laughter] It was like, talk about a rod for her own back. But anyway it was kind of,
1:41:16

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but it was sort of amusing. but it was sort of amusing.
1:41:17

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Verify
[Portus] And then how did you rethink, and this is a significant sort of question in your career of repetition many times, [Portus] And then how did you rethink, and this is a significant sort of question in your career of repetition many times,
1:41:27

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How do you rethink merchant of Venice again How do you rethink merchant of Venice again
1:41:29

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when you did it with Richard Wherrett in a very modern day set of polished granite slabs when you did it with Richard Wherrett in a very modern day set of polished granite slabs
1:41:40

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a kind of big city corporate architecture? a kind of big city corporate architecture?
1:41:43

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Ah, well it actually was mirror tiles that were heavily spattered with paint, Ah, well it actually was mirror tiles that were heavily spattered with paint,
1:41:51

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so that there was a kind of textural, ah it wasn't actually granite, so that there was a kind of textural, ah it wasn't actually granite,
1:41:55

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It was actually something more mercurial than that. It was actually something more mercurial than that.
1:41:58

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But it ah... of course Richard was interested in the relationship between the men But it ah... of course Richard was interested in the relationship between the men
1:42:06

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Verify
and their that the undercurrent of a common homoeroticism in that in those relationships. and their that the undercurrent of a common homoeroticism in that in those relationships.
1:42:13

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Verify
You can go there or you may not go there. Portus] Between Bassanio and... Yes the other one. [Mitchell] The other one. You can go there or you may not go there. Portus] Between Bassanio and... Yes the other one. [Mitchell] The other one.
1:42:22

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And I think that's a reading of it and I think that made good sense. Not every production goes there, but, And I think that's a reading of it and I think that made good sense. Not every production goes there, but,
1:42:30

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but I think for Richard. but I think for Richard.
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that was an important investigation. [Portus] Did just that small detail of interpretation influence your design that was an important investigation. [Portus] Did just that small detail of interpretation influence your design
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in anyway? [Mitchell]  I don't... I don't ... No I don't think so. I think it. I think it was... again in the most simplistic form. in anyway? [Mitchell]  I don't... I don't ... No I don't think so. I think it. I think it was... again in the most simplistic form.
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It was another empty space that was a circular space surrounded by these ... half of that circle was backed by these It was another empty space that was a circular space surrounded by these ... half of that circle was backed by these
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curved walls which were mainly designed to take on light in very different ways. So it was more of a, of the surface that can curved walls which were mainly designed to take on light in very different ways. So it was more of a, of the surface that can
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actually travel to different places through light. That was really the driving idea behind it. actually travel to different places through light. That was really the driving idea behind it.
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But it, it was actually a very beautiful production and an actually pretty terrific show. Again this would be But it, it was actually a very beautiful production and an actually pretty terrific show. Again this would be
1:43:34

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and be an example of people same all of course. and be an example of people same all of course.
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Richard would bring his interest in that relationship between Antonio and Bassanio. But that's a valid thing in Richard would bring his interest in that relationship between Antonio and Bassanio. But that's a valid thing in
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itself, but it certainly didn't... he wasn't driving it home with a sledgehammer on that. itself, but it certainly didn't... he wasn't driving it home with a sledgehammer on that.
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It was actually a very well considered and, and refined production It was actually a very well considered and, and refined production
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and with some great actors in it actually. [Portus] I was in the production of The Merchant of Venice myself and had the same interpretation. and with some great actors in it actually. [Portus] I was in the production of The Merchant of Venice myself and had the same interpretation.
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Oh, well it's not a new thing. Oh, well it's not a new thing.
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And that just to, of course the, the original was in the tent then it transferred into a proscenium but production was in And that just to, of course the, the original was in the tent then it transferred into a proscenium but production was in
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the Playhouse at the Opera House. So a tiny stage. So quite radically a different approach. the Playhouse at the Opera House. So a tiny stage. So quite radically a different approach.
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You did The Tempest in the same year at the Queensland Theatre Company [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] with your old regular, Simon Phillips. [Mitchell] Yeah. You did The Tempest in the same year at the Queensland Theatre Company [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] with your old regular, Simon Phillips. [Mitchell] Yeah.
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Interesting for you doing set and costumes together [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] and quite a bold leap of taking The Tempest and setting Interesting for you doing set and costumes together [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] and quite a bold leap of taking The Tempest and setting
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it in colonial [Yeah] and indigenous 18th century [Yeah, yeah, yeah] Australia.  With sort of ochre colours and period costumes. [Yeah, yeah] it in colonial [Yeah] and indigenous 18th century [Yeah, yeah, yeah] Australia.  With sort of ochre colours and period costumes. [Yeah, yeah]
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[Portus] Do you run free when you do set and costumes? is this the kind of, is this the double treat? [Mitchell] Look I, [Portus] Do you run free when you do set and costumes? is this the kind of, is this the double treat? [Mitchell] Look I,
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I have to say I do not regard myself as a costume designer. There are many people that do it far better than I do. I have to say I do not regard myself as a costume designer. There are many people that do it far better than I do.
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There are very few people that do sets better than I do. So I stick to my strengths. Having said that, There are very few people that do sets better than I do. So I stick to my strengths. Having said that,
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in the right context, on the right production, in the right context, on the right production,
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I really enjoy it. And that was a... it's often about team around you I really enjoy it. And that was a... it's often about team around you
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and the nature of the, of the production. So for example in that case, and the nature of the, of the production. So for example in that case,
1:45:23

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as you have just mentioned, there was strong indigenous component to the production. as you have just mentioned, there was strong indigenous component to the production.
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In fact it was referencing the indigenous population that were here In fact it was referencing the indigenous population that were here
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and the European culture crashing into that indigenous culture, and the European culture crashing into that indigenous culture,
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and so the set in essence was a red earth floor with a deep blue Velvet curtain with fullness crashing into the red earth, so and so the set in essence was a red earth floor with a deep blue Velvet curtain with fullness crashing into the red earth, so
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it was the juxtaposition of those two environments. And literally the velvet crashing into the dirt. it was the juxtaposition of those two environments. And literally the velvet crashing into the dirt.
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But that was a joyous production to design costumes for, because of the team at QTC at that point in time. And they were But that was a joyous production to design costumes for, because of the team at QTC at that point in time. And they were
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fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. And we had indigenous people coming to do fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. And we had indigenous people coming to do
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weaving and it was just really fabulous. weaving and it was just really fabulous.
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And the research that were doing was feeding directly into a dialogue with various craft people who were experts in And the research that were doing was feeding directly into a dialogue with various craft people who were experts in
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particular, whatever it was, grass skirt making or weaving or whatever. particular, whatever it was, grass skirt making or weaving or whatever.
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I absolutely loved that aspect of it and felt incredibly well supported. Did that travel? Yes, it went to MTC. So it only had one transfer. I absolutely loved that aspect of it and felt incredibly well supported. Did that travel? Yes, it went to MTC. So it only had one transfer.
1:46:43

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Because productions don't travel very much interstate between Australia, Because productions don't travel very much interstate between Australia,
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all this work into one production. [Mitchell] Well they used to. And that sort of was toward the end of that period. all this work into one production. [Mitchell] Well they used to. And that sort of was toward the end of that period.
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When I started, well in fact more to the point I guess is that you as the designer in Australia used to be able to When I started, well in fact more to the point I guess is that you as the designer in Australia used to be able to
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do a circuit for an entire year. So you'd do MTC, QTC, STC whatever. Keep on the move. [Mitchell] The same production? do a circuit for an entire year. So you'd do MTC, QTC, STC whatever. Keep on the move. [Mitchell] The same production?
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You as a designer doing different productions You as a designer doing different productions
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but equally shows would be at least jointly co-produced if not three partners or whatever. So there's much more fluidity but equally shows would be at least jointly co-produced if not three partners or whatever. So there's much more fluidity
1:47:23

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and then there just came an economic realist point of time and then there just came an economic realist point of time
1:47:28

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when they said well we can't afford to bring designers from interstate. Which is a great pity because there was a when they said well we can't afford to bring designers from interstate. Which is a great pity because there was a
1:47:36

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fantastic movement and sharing of ideas across the states which which has, to some degree, pulled right back, fantastic movement and sharing of ideas across the states which which has, to some degree, pulled right back,
1:47:46

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Can't they share? Can't they share?
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So they might not be able to bring interstate designers but isn't there a saving to be made in actually jointly So they might not be able to bring interstate designers but isn't there a saving to be made in actually jointly
1:47:53

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doing a production? [Mitchell] Well, there certainly are still pro quos. That does happen but I guess it's mainly a fact that as a young designer doing a production? [Mitchell] Well, there certainly are still pro quos. That does happen but I guess it's mainly a fact that as a young designer
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I was able to go, I was able to go,
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I would literally spend a year travelling from state to state to state doing different productions. [Portus] We should note I would literally spend a year travelling from state to state to state doing different productions. [Portus] We should note
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that Midsummer Night 's Dream that you did for Bell Shakespeare Company in 2000 that Midsummer Night 's Dream that you did for Bell Shakespeare Company in 2000
1:48:14

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with Elke Neinhardt, [Mitchell] Yes [Portus] her first drama, her first time as an opera director with Elke Neinhardt, [Mitchell] Yes [Portus] her first drama, her first time as an opera director
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I gather she did a drama? [Mitchell] Ah, yes in Australia. She had directed dramas before and I gather she did a drama? [Mitchell] Ah, yes in Australia. She had directed dramas before and
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in Germany, but yes. [Portus] So again that was a touring production? [Mitchell] It was yes. [Portus] So it had to fit many stages? [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah, it did. in Germany, but yes. [Portus] So again that was a touring production? [Mitchell] It was yes. [Portus] So it had to fit many stages? [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah, it did.
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And her interpretation with you as the designer was on upside down world? Um. And her interpretation with you as the designer was on upside down world? Um.
1:48:42

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[Portus] Seasonal chaos [Mitchell] Yes which again this is down to interpretation  [Portus] Seasonal chaos [Mitchell] Yes which again this is down to interpretation 
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but certainly there is very strong evidence to suggest that the seasons have turned on their head in the text but certainly there is very strong evidence to suggest that the seasons have turned on their head in the text
1:48:57

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and that actually rather than a Midsummer Night's Dream and that actually rather than a Midsummer Night's Dream
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it was actually an ice world that, that Oberon had actually frozen the world in terms of seasons inside out. Um, um. it was actually an ice world that, that Oberon had actually frozen the world in terms of seasons inside out. Um, um.
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And part of the driving force of that design was my favourite childhood book which is Where The Wild Things Are And part of the driving force of that design was my favourite childhood book which is Where The Wild Things Are
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and the transformation of a space into something other. [Portus] Um, Troilus and the transformation of a space into something other. [Portus] Um, Troilus
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and Cressida, you're working through the whole canon really aren't you in 2000 with the Bell Shakespeare again. and Cressida, you're working through the whole canon really aren't you in 2000 with the Bell Shakespeare again.
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This is an interesting production because [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] you did it with Michael Bogdanov. [Mitchell] Who sadly died two weeks ago. [Portus] Oh did he? Yes, um. This is an interesting production because [Mitchell] Yeah [Portus] you did it with Michael Bogdanov. [Mitchell] Who sadly died two weeks ago. [Portus] Oh did he? Yes, um.
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With a dungeon set, [Um] gold iconic columns [Um] damaged by war. With a dungeon set, [Um] gold iconic columns [Um] damaged by war.
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This is about Greek and Trojans. [Mitchell] Yes, yeah. Trojan columns. This is about Greek and Trojans. [Mitchell] Yes, yeah. Trojan columns.
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Yeah, and but rich with orgies and porn on the screens. You were using technology of screens [um, um] and projecting actors Yeah, and but rich with orgies and porn on the screens. You were using technology of screens [um, um] and projecting actors
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live onto screens. [Mitchell] Yeah. live onto screens. [Mitchell] Yeah.
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Simon Stone eat your heart out. [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny how people think that they've just discovered things. [Portus] So this is an early use of screens.  Simon Stone eat your heart out. [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny how people think that they've just discovered things. [Portus] So this is an early use of screens. 
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What's your logic for, for doing that in this what play about voyeurism? [Mitchell] Yeah. What's your logic for, for doing that in this what play about voyeurism? [Mitchell] Yeah.
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Well I think there you have it really. I mean it's about, it was something that was exploring voyeurism Well I think there you have it really. I mean it's about, it was something that was exploring voyeurism
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and in particular our appetite for it on small screens and in particular our appetite for it on small screens
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and big screens. You know there was this kind of literally in-your-face filming of actors that was being pushed back onto and big screens. You know there was this kind of literally in-your-face filming of actors that was being pushed back onto
1:50:52

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the screen the screen
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and in fact Billy Brown played a kind host-like character, almost like a TV host. So t was a mash up of and in fact Billy Brown played a kind host-like character, almost like a TV host. So t was a mash up of
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porn/television/game show/ cum Greek Trojan War you know so um. porn/television/game show/ cum Greek Trojan War you know so um.
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This blood lust of soldiers [um, um] going into battle and [yeah]stirred by pornography? This blood lust of soldiers [um, um] going into battle and [yeah]stirred by pornography?
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And which of course many of them are., you know. To this day. But And which of course many of them are., you know. To this day. But
1:51:27

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that's, yeah, very exciting to work with Michael for the first time and we went on to try that's, yeah, very exciting to work with Michael for the first time and we went on to try
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and get a musical, The Thorn Birds, up and get a musical, The Thorn Birds, up
1:51:40

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and running in Berlin, which never really quite happened. [Portus] To create a musical of The Thorn Birds? [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah. and running in Berlin, which never really quite happened. [Portus] To create a musical of The Thorn Birds? [Mitchell] Yeah, yeah.
1:51:47

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And the best thing that came out of that was that And the best thing that came out of that was that
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Michael and I were locked sadly in the ?Kempinski? Hotel with Colleen Mccullough Michael and I were locked sadly in the ?Kempinski? Hotel with Colleen Mccullough
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and so every afternoon we'd meet in the bar at four o'clock and talk until sort of seven when it was time to go out for a meal. Fabulous and so every afternoon we'd meet in the bar at four o'clock and talk until sort of seven when it was time to go out for a meal. Fabulous
1:52:06

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conversations all week. conversations all week.
1:52:08

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[Portus] The musical of the book never happened? [Mitchell] No conflict between producers and writers and you know, the usual.  [Portus] The musical of the book never happened? [Mitchell] No conflict between producers and writers and you know, the usual. 
1:52:18

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When I get to the Olympics..uum which is a sort of um When I get to the Olympics..uum which is a sort of um
1:52:24

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a big mark in your career, designing the opening ceremony stage? [Mitchell] Stage and cauldron yeah [Portus] For the Sydney 2000 a big mark in your career, designing the opening ceremony stage? [Mitchell] Stage and cauldron yeah [Portus] For the Sydney 2000
1:52:32

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Olympics, the cauldron lit by Cathy Freeman only .added to get the gig. Well done enough. Olympics, the cauldron lit by Cathy Freeman only .added to get the gig. Well done enough.
1:52:40

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That's an intersection between architecture and theatre are there. That's an intersection between architecture and theatre are there.
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There was fundamental flaw in the design of the stadium in so far as the position that was marked for the call room There was fundamental flaw in the design of the stadium in so far as the position that was marked for the call room
1:52:53

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which is where it finally ended up in the stadium,  was a position which  couldn't be seen by the Gold ticketholders.  At the  which is where it finally ended up in the stadium,  was a position which  couldn't be seen by the Gold ticketholders.  At the 
1:53:00

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Opening Ceremony. So Rick Birch was trying to resolve this with variosu architects Opening Ceremony. So Rick Birch was trying to resolve this with variosu architects
1:53:07

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and heartache they could get around the problem, and heartache they could get around the problem,
1:53:10

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and he finally concluded that he needed a theatre/architect who would think outside the box. and he finally concluded that he needed a theatre/architect who would think outside the box.
1:53:17

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And..so I was actually commissioned... And..so I was actually commissioned...
1:53:21

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Well I'd met him in Harry Miller 's office after he had done Barcelona Well I'd met him in Harry Miller 's office after he had done Barcelona
1:53:27

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and the arrow, the shooting of the arrow to open the um..to light the cauldron. And anyway,  and the arrow, the shooting of the arrow to open the um..to light the cauldron. And anyway, 
1:53:36

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Harry, Harry was determined to make me a star. Introduces...I have to go back to that because I'm going to do a little back step when Harry, Harry was determined to make me a star. Introduces...I have to go back to that because I'm going to do a little back step when
1:53:50

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when I was invited to do Superstar, Harry said: I'm not going to pay you much, but I'm going to make you a star.  Five thousand dollars when I was invited to do Superstar, Harry said: I'm not going to pay you much, but I'm going to make you a star.  Five thousand dollars
1:53:58

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My fee, Harry Harry's personal profit out of that was fifteen million dollars and My fee, Harry Harry's personal profit out of that was fifteen million dollars and
1:54:07

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and I wrote... there were 3 producers. They, each of the three took home fifteen million dollars after everything had been paid for.  and I wrote... there were 3 producers. They, each of the three took home fifteen million dollars after everything had been paid for. 
1:54:13

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After six months of running the show. Forty five million, forty five million in profit in 6 months. Anyway. So I write... not only did I After six months of running the show. Forty five million, forty five million in profit in 6 months. Anyway. So I write... not only did I
1:54:24

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have to do the the laser but I by default I became the production manager because there was nobody on board who actually  have to do the the laser but I by default I became the production manager because there was nobody on board who actually 
1:54:30

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 knew how to do that. So I...after it all had settled, and clearly become a phenomenal success, I wrote to the three producers and said   knew how to do that. So I...after it all had settled, and clearly become a phenomenal success, I wrote to the three producers and said 
1:54:40

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 look basically I was engaged as set designer.  look basically I was engaged as set designer.
1:54:46

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I was then asked to do the lasers - not my gig.  I was then by default, I was then asked to do the lasers - not my gig.  I was then by default,
1:54:50

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the production manager because you didn't spy MLC could do it. the production manager because you didn't spy MLC could do it.
1:54:54

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I do think that $5000 doesn't quite cover it. And got this letter back, and  I do think that $5000 doesn't quite cover it. And got this letter back, and 
1:55:00

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 Michael we've given due consideration to your thoughts  Michael we've given due consideration to your thoughts
1:55:03

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and we agree. Here's another two thousand dollars. [laughter] That I remember getting my first cheque from Harry and it literally I think it was  and we agree. Here's another two thousand dollars. [laughter] That I remember getting my first cheque from Harry and it literally I think it was 
1:55:10

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It was two thousand dollars as the signature payment. And he sat there in the office and wrote out the cheque It was two thousand dollars as the signature payment. And he sat there in the office and wrote out the cheque
1:55:19

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and folded it, and gave it to me, and shook my hand. There you go. You're on your way. and folded it, and gave it to me, and shook my hand. There you go. You're on your way.
1:55:26

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I.. look I have to say, I adore Harry. I know he's he can be problematic, and or had been difficult for different people at I.. look I have to say, I adore Harry. I know he's he can be problematic, and or had been difficult for different people at
1:55:36

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different times but I used to sit in his office and smile. And  different times but I used to sit in his office and smile. And 
1:55:41

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and he'd go: Michael what are you smiling at? and it was like: I'm just  watching you, on your day-to-day routine. Just fabulous and he'd go: Michael what are you smiling at? and it was like: I'm just  watching you, on your day-to-day routine. Just fabulous
1:55:49

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[Portus] and there in his office you met Rick Birch. [Mitchell] Rick Birch [Mitchell]  Rick Birch has actually seen your another Shakespeare that you'd done.  As you Like it.  [Portus] and there in his office you met Rick Birch. [Mitchell] Rick Birch [Mitchell]  Rick Birch has actually seen your another Shakespeare that you'd done.  As you Like it. 
1:55:57

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was it? [Mitchell] He saw As you Like it, which he adored was it? [Mitchell] He saw As you Like it, which he adored
1:56:01

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and there was  something else he had seen that indicated that I have this mechanical structural engineering sort of bent. So he and there was  something else he had seen that indicated that I have this mechanical structural engineering sort of bent. So he
1:56:12

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thought all this is the guy for me thought all this is the guy for me
1:56:13

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What did you... the genius of that cauldron was surely the mixture of fire and water?  What did you... the genius of that cauldron was surely the mixture of fire and water? 
1:56:22

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a crucial elements that you've said are of Australian life. What did you want from the cauldron? a crucial elements that you've said are of Australian life. What did you want from the cauldron?
1:56:28

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and how did you make it work? [Mitchell] Rick and I had a breakfast meeting in his house where he he briefed me on it, and  and how did you make it work? [Mitchell] Rick and I had a breakfast meeting in his house where he he briefed me on it, and 
1:56:41

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he, to his credit, he had thought what he wanted to do was release a wave from the top of the stadium he, to his credit, he had thought what he wanted to do was release a wave from the top of the stadium
1:56:50

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and that surf lifesavers would, no surfboard riders would ride the wave down the stadium met by Surf Lifesavers at the and that surf lifesavers would, no surfboard riders would ride the wave down the stadium met by Surf Lifesavers at the
1:56:58

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bottom who were on Ropes and blah... But as he was saying it, I was thinking, well actually the thing that interests me is   bottom who were on Ropes and blah... But as he was saying it, I was thinking, well actually the thing that interests me is  
1:57:07

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in that is nothing other than water. So I walked away from the meeting and by the time I got to my car in that is nothing other than water. So I walked away from the meeting and by the time I got to my car
1:57:17

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I had conceived its completely, including having Cathy Freeman as the centre piece to it. I had conceived its completely, including having Cathy Freeman as the centre piece to it.
1:57:23

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and it was essentially the notion of Cathy a seven digit jitters woman walking on water and being cleansed by fire and it was essentially the notion of Cathy a seven digit jitters woman walking on water and being cleansed by fire
1:57:33

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and water as a, as a kind of statement about where were at as a nation, and what we needed to do and water as a, as a kind of statement about where were at as a nation, and what we needed to do
1:57:40

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and future-looking really, an idea which not one single journalist in Australia has ever discussed and future-looking really, an idea which not one single journalist in Australia has ever discussed
1:57:49

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or mentioned or thought about. or mentioned or thought about.
1:57:52

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Interestingly enough my sister Lindsay was in Paris the night of the opening, the opening ceremony Interestingly enough my sister Lindsay was in Paris the night of the opening, the opening ceremony
1:57:59

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and she rang me very excitedly and said: the French have just gone bananas about the idea that you're presenting there. About and she rang me very excitedly and said: the French have just gone bananas about the idea that you're presenting there. About
1:58:07

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an indigenous woman walking on water, being cleansed by water and fire. Nothing in Australia. an indigenous woman walking on water, being cleansed by water and fire. Nothing in Australia.
1:58:13

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and I don't think that ...I don't think that means that people don't think about things like that, and I don't think that ...I don't think that means that people don't think about things like that,
1:58:17

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but we're not very good at talking about it. And anyway... The, the first engineering company couldn't resolve it but we're not very good at talking about it. And anyway... The, the first engineering company couldn't resolve it
1:58:31

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and so I board him David Tierney who I work with at the Opera and so I board him David Tierney who I work with at the Opera
1:58:36

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and he was a retired engineer who still had an engineering company, but was retired and his son was running it. And I worked with my and he was a retired engineer who still had an engineering company, but was retired and his son was running it. And I worked with my
1:58:44

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by then good friend Johannes ?Finger?, who was the head of the workshop of Opera Australia  - another mad German.  by then good friend Johannes ?Finger?, who was the head of the workshop of Opera Australia  - another mad German. 
1:58:52

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and we found... David 's company found an engineering solution to how to make it work, and we found... David 's company found an engineering solution to how to make it work,
1:59:01

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and we [Portus] What was the particular challenge of making it work? [Mitchell] Well. and we [Portus] What was the particular challenge of making it work? [Mitchell] Well.
1:59:06

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There are a number of steps to the process. So the first was a lift. The lift then had to connect to another carriage that There are a number of steps to the process. So the first was a lift. The lift then had to connect to another carriage that
1:59:14

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then had to take the cauldron  up the gradient. So there was a very important junction between the lift part then had to take the cauldron  up the gradient. So there was a very important junction between the lift part
1:59:24

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and moving on to the next section and moving on to the next section
1:59:26

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and in the final section was another element pushing up underneath the call room to lifted up and in the final section was another element pushing up underneath the call room to lifted up
1:59:32

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into the air. [Portus] When it got to the top of the gradient? [Mitchell] yeah  so the three, if you like, very significant, very heavy into the air. [Portus] When it got to the top of the gradient? [Mitchell] yeah  so the three, if you like, very significant, very heavy
1:59:40

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duty mechanical connections that had to be made. duty mechanical connections that had to be made.
1:59:45

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And are so, the first company couldn't resolve that without it really destroying the design And are so, the first company couldn't resolve that without it really destroying the design
1:59:53

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and of course the other idea in that  and of course the other idea in that 
1:59:56

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 was that this disk of fire floated. And that it floated having left Cathy then floated up, on a river of water if you like.  was that this disk of fire floated. And that it floated having left Cathy then floated up, on a river of water if you like.
2:00:05

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So jump cut to its presentation in ... at Olympic Park now, whilst I think it is in some ways a beautiful So jump cut to its presentation in ... at Olympic Park now, whilst I think it is in some ways a beautiful
2:00:20

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sculptural resolution. sculptural resolution.
2:00:21

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It's completely antipathetic to the idea of the cauldron. [Portus] What  state is it in now? [Mitchell]  it's in... it is held ?Alexander's?  It's completely antipathetic to the idea of the cauldron. [Portus] What  state is it in now? [Mitchell]  it's in... it is held ?Alexander's? 
2:00:30

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company design that is Michael pickup sticks, company design that is Michael pickup sticks,
2:00:33

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which is a whole series of poles that hold the  cauldron up in the air. To me that [Portus] At Olympic Park? [Mitchell] At Olympic Park yeah [Portus] In the which is a whole series of poles that hold the  cauldron up in the air. To me that [Portus] At Olympic Park? [Mitchell] At Olympic Park yeah [Portus] In the
2:00:42

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grounds? [Mitchell] Yeah so it is on permanent display and is lit on ceremonial occasions grounds? [Mitchell] Yeah so it is on permanent display and is lit on ceremonial occasions
2:00:47

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and of course to me that's Gulliver's Travels, that's Gulliver being pinned down by ropes. [Portus] It doesn't move? [Mitchell] Doesn't move and of course to me that's Gulliver's Travels, that's Gulliver being pinned down by ropes. [Portus] It doesn't move? [Mitchell] Doesn't move
2:00:55

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it doesn't float. And so it completely missed the idea. Anyway that's Australian politics for you. it doesn't float. And so it completely missed the idea. Anyway that's Australian politics for you.
2:01:01

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Anyway going back to... as I said I literally within a few minutes, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And I said, rang  Anyway going back to... as I said I literally within a few minutes, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And I said, rang 
2:01:16

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My wife My wife
2:01:16

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and I said: what I'm thinking about is that there's a disc under water, and Cathy Freeman walks across a body of water and I said: what I'm thinking about is that there's a disc under water, and Cathy Freeman walks across a body of water
2:01:23

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and I described every step of it to her. I didn't know until three a.m. and I described every step of it to her. I didn't know until three a.m.
2:01:29

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on the morning of the Opening Ceremony that it indeed was Cathy. And in fact I went out on the morning of the Opening Ceremony that it indeed was Cathy. And in fact I went out
2:01:35

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They asked me to go out to explain to whoever it was who was going to light it, what the mech... the  process was They asked me to go out to explain to whoever it was who was going to light it, what the mech... the  process was
2:01:42

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and Richard had been, Richard Wherrett had been asked by Rick... Rick said look basically you're the elder statesman of the arts and Richard had been, Richard Wherrett had been asked by Rick... Rick said look basically you're the elder statesman of the arts
2:01:51

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following arts. following arts.
2:01:52

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You can do whatever you want. And Richard was ...[Portus] Richard's role was...? [Mitchell]  Well Richard... I said to Richard, You can do whatever you want. And Richard was ...[Portus] Richard's role was...? [Mitchell]  Well Richard... I said to Richard,
2:01:59

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what... the cauldron has been designed, but why don't you come on what... the cauldron has been designed, but why don't you come on
2:02:03

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and direct the torch entering the stadium and the process of Cathy lighting it, and choosing the music and direct the torch entering the stadium and the process of Cathy lighting it, and choosing the music
2:02:09

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and da da da. All of which he did. He loved being part of that. So Richard and I drove out together. and da da da. All of which he did. He loved being part of that. So Richard and I drove out together.
2:02:17

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I can't remember...I wandered off to do something and I came back and Richard said: your vision is come true. I can't remember...I wandered off to do something and I came back and Richard said: your vision is come true.
2:02:23

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It is indeed Cathy. And [Portus] You make it sound like a coincidence. You didn't drive it for it to be Cathy. It is indeed Cathy. And [Portus] You make it sound like a coincidence. You didn't drive it for it to be Cathy.
2:02:32

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I didn't.  I mean I would have said somewhere along the line of course it's designed for Cathy I didn't.  I mean I would have said somewhere along the line of course it's designed for Cathy
2:02:40

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but that decision-making was happening at a sort of Parliamentary level. The arts Minister and various other people but that decision-making was happening at a sort of Parliamentary level. The arts Minister and various other people
2:02:47

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or in hot debate about who it should be, or in hot debate about who it should be,
2:02:50

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so I didn't have any idea who it was going to be.  And literally as I say, it was four years in development with her always in my so I didn't have any idea who it was going to be.  And literally as I say, it was four years in development with her always in my
2:02:58

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mind as the figure that was going to be in that walk... walking on the water. Anyway jump cut to the the the rehearsal for that person. mind as the figure that was going to be in that walk... walking on the water. Anyway jump cut to the the the rehearsal for that person.
2:03:08

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I am to have our cameras was directing the ceremony and David introduces them Davidson of assets, I am to have our cameras was directing the ceremony and David introduces them Davidson of assets,
2:03:17

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you may find this interesting, but my collection designed as fully as go with your mind to it. you may find this interesting, but my collection designed as fully as go with your mind to it.
2:03:22

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She said; Oh shit. [laughter]  I thought yes that's an appropriate response to the monumentality of what's just been discussed. But actually  She said; Oh shit. [laughter]  I thought yes that's an appropriate response to the monumentality of what's just been discussed. But actually 
2:03:33

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She was very kind and as it was happening, I was standing there next to her thinking ... [Portus] So she only knew at the last moment She was very kind and as it was happening, I was standing there next to her thinking ... [Portus] So she only knew at the last moment
2:03:41

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when they finally asked her as well. [Mitchell]  yes yes indeed when they finally asked her as well. [Mitchell]  yes yes indeed
2:03:44

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and I was standing next to her thinking she's gonna catch pneumonia   and I was standing next to her thinking she's gonna catch pneumonia  
2:03:50

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and what have I done? And there goes her chance of getting goal. But anyway...[Portus] You had a on a live theatre and what have I done? And there goes her chance of getting goal. But anyway...[Portus] You had a on a live theatre
2:04:01

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and typically challenging moment and typically challenging moment
2:04:03

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when the the cauldron didn't go up the gradient. [Mitchell] Ah well it was [Portus]  and everyone, well not everyone knew but there was a when the the cauldron didn't go up the gradient. [Mitchell] Ah well it was [Portus]  and everyone, well not everyone knew but there was a
2:04:12

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long pause, [Mitchell] There is long pause, long pause, [Mitchell] There is long pause,
2:04:14

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it was meant to be one and a half minutes as it did its junction transition. It ended up being three minutes. it was meant to be one and a half minutes as it did its junction transition. It ended up being three minutes.
2:04:24

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and essentially what had happened, is that the... having spent a lot of money on this cauldron, somewhere somebody made  and essentially what had happened, is that the... having spent a lot of money on this cauldron, somewhere somebody made 
2:04:32

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the decision to put very cheap solenoid switches that would tell ... that would give feedback to the system. the decision to put very cheap solenoid switches that would tell ... that would give feedback to the system.
2:04:41

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about where it was. And of course what happens with solenoids about where it was. And of course what happens with solenoids
2:04:44

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when is water they make the connection so it told itself that it was a certain point when is water they make the connection so it told itself that it was a certain point
2:04:50

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when it actually wasn't. Started to move off when it actually wasn't. Started to move off
2:04:53

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and in the process cut the umbilical cord to the cauldron which was the means by which they actually could drive it. And there was a and in the process cut the umbilical cord to the cauldron which was the means by which they actually could drive it. And there was a
2:05:03

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backup system that it took them in on Ministry of backup happening backup system that it took them in on Ministry of backup happening
2:05:07

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but the flipside of that as it had thirty seconds of gas on-board left by the time but the flipside of that as it had thirty seconds of gas on-board left by the time
2:05:12

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and made the connection to the main burner. So to say we squeaked it in...  is you know saying the least.  and made the connection to the main burner. So to say we squeaked it in...  is you know saying the least. 
2:05:20

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and you've develop quite a reputation for designing cauldrons. You're doing another one ... and you've develop quite a reputation for designing cauldrons. You're doing another one ...
2:05:27

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There's something else I want to say about that. It's a really interesting case There's something else I want to say about that. It's a really interesting case
2:05:32

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I think of ...Rick Birch and David panicked because it hadn't ... it I think of ...Rick Birch and David panicked because it hadn't ... it
2:05:39

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had stall. The people in Paris weren't thinking oh my god this has stopped it's stalled. had stall. The people in Paris weren't thinking oh my god this has stopped it's stalled.
2:05:46

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They were thinking this is an extraordinary idea. David They were thinking this is an extraordinary idea. David
2:05:51

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and Rick went into the press conference apologising for the fact that it had stalled. So what comes out in the press? The and Rick went into the press conference apologising for the fact that it had stalled. So what comes out in the press? The
2:05:57

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cauldron stalls. So history was written in that response, about drawing attention to the fact that that had been longer than cauldron stalls. So history was written in that response, about drawing attention to the fact that that had been longer than
2:06:06

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it was meant to be. I find that really interesting about how history is written. Because it's in Australia where people get it was meant to be. I find that really interesting about how history is written. Because it's in Australia where people get
2:06:15

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obsessed about that... they go Oh ... How did you feel when it stalled?  obsessed about that... they go Oh ... How did you feel when it stalled? 
2:06:19

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I don't get that in any other country. People so that was an amazing idea I don't get that in any other country. People so that was an amazing idea
2:06:23

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and I think we need to grow up when it comes to these things. We're actually really parochial in our thinking about.. oh no were were on the world stage and I think we need to grow up when it comes to these things. We're actually really parochial in our thinking about.. oh no were were on the world stage
2:06:31

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and it stalled. It's like - You know what? This is a live show. So get over it and it stalled. It's like - You know what? This is a live show. So get over it
2:06:36

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and more to the point, I go back to my original statement, What Australian has turned around to me to say, that was an and more to the point, I go back to my original statement, What Australian has turned around to me to say, that was an
2:06:45

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incredible idea about where we were, as a nation and the indigenous women incredible idea about where we were, as a nation and the indigenous women
2:06:49

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and the Vintage 's population are influence us settles coming into this country and all that. and the Vintage 's population are influence us settles coming into this country and all that.
2:06:55

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Where was that dialogue? I've had that dialogue many times in other countries, but not in Australia. Where was that dialogue? I've had that dialogue many times in other countries, but not in Australia.
2:07:01

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I'm staggered to hear it now.  You have developed quite a reputation today I'm staggered to hear it now.  You have developed quite a reputation today
2:07:07

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and cauldrons. Are you doing one at the moment?  Another one at the moment? [Mitchell] I'm doing 3 at the moment, possibly 4 and cauldrons. Are you doing one at the moment?  Another one at the moment? [Mitchell] I'm doing 3 at the moment, possibly 4
2:07:14

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[Laughter]. [Portus] Give us a rundown. [Mitchell] To put it into context, [Laughter]. [Portus] Give us a rundown. [Mitchell] To put it into context,
2:07:19

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I worked with a company on... called fun combustion technology, who are based in Adelaide I worked with a company on... called fun combustion technology, who are based in Adelaide
2:07:25

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when we were developing the burner for when we were developing the burner for
2:07:28

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and who knew there were things like designing burners? I do now! They were an industrial burner company. They were and who knew there were things like designing burners? I do now! They were an industrial burner company. They were
2:07:35

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commissioned to design the burners for the cauldron. Another little aside -  and this is the part of Australia commissioned to design the burners for the cauldron. Another little aside -  and this is the part of Australia
2:07:43

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I do love. What you think the engineering solution to 160  I do love. What you think the engineering solution to 160 
2:07:48

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gas jets under the water used to stop the water getting into the system? Yes it's putting condoms over each gas jets under the water used to stop the water getting into the system? Yes it's putting condoms over each
2:07:56

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one. So when it ignited 160 Condoms popped off. one. So when it ignited 160 Condoms popped off.
2:08:01

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And if you look closely at the water you can see the condoms floating in the water. It's not only you know whom a  stunning metaphor  And if you look closely at the water you can see the condoms floating in the water. It's not only you know whom a  stunning metaphor 
2:08:07

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but it's clean sex at the same time. Safe sex. but it's clean sex at the same time. Safe sex.
2:08:11

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and that is,  I think that's a fantastic example of of Australian ingenuity. [Portus] and those condoms were in the Olympic cauldron.  and that is,  I think that's a fantastic example of of Australian ingenuity. [Portus] and those condoms were in the Olympic cauldron. 
2:08:18

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They were in the water. They were in the water.
2:08:19

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Yeah. So it had to blow off its condoms before it could arise out of it. You just don't want to follow that too,  Yeah. So it had to blow off its condoms before it could arise out of it. You just don't want to follow that too, 
2:08:26

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too far down the track. [Portus] And your current cauldrons? [Mitchell] Oh well   I am doing a pitch for the Sultan of Brunei, too far down the track. [Portus] And your current cauldrons? [Mitchell] Oh well   I am doing a pitch for the Sultan of Brunei,
2:08:35

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who is celebrating fifty years of his reign. And  who is celebrating fifty years of his reign. And 
2:08:41

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I'm doing three different versions of called runs to him and to select from farm. I'm doing three different versions of called runs to him and to select from farm.
2:08:48

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My only hope is that I manage to earn enough money to pay my daughter's tuition in London at RADA, LAMDA or central My only hope is that I manage to earn enough money to pay my daughter's tuition in London at RADA, LAMDA or central
2:08:55

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So I think it's called Lie back and think of England  So I think it's called Lie back and think of England 
2:09:00

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but the company is also wanting me to look at actually quite a range of other cauldrons that they are doing. they are now the  but the company is also wanting me to look at actually quite a range of other cauldrons that they are doing. they are now the 
2:09:07

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leading... ironically, they became the leading burner design for Olympic torches leading... ironically, they became the leading burner design for Olympic torches
2:09:13

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and cauldrons. They have done every Olympic Games since Sydney and cauldrons. They have done every Olympic Games since Sydney
2:09:17

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and now branching into lots of different areas of fine water technology and now branching into lots of different areas of fine water technology
2:09:23

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And ... yes so the...I then invited them onto the Ring Cycle And ... yes so the...I then invited them onto the Ring Cycle
2:09:29

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and they did all the burner technology for the Ring Cycle, working with Adelaide University. and they did all the burner technology for the Ring Cycle, working with Adelaide University.
2:09:37

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and then they designed and built the burner for the Doha Asian Games in 2006,  which is the other... and then they designed and built the burner for the Doha Asian Games in 2006,  which is the other...
2:09:46

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It now, that cauldron, now sits in Doha and is again lit on ceremonial occasions.  It now, that cauldron, now sits in Doha and is again lit on ceremonial occasions. 
2:09:56

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You did the cauldron, you did the Olympics. You went back in 2001 You did the cauldron, you did the Olympics. You went back in 2001
2:09:59

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you did Elixir of Love with Opera Australia which was a significant production I suppose you did Elixir of Love with Opera Australia which was a significant production I suppose
2:10:05

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Take some of the flavours of what you've just been describing in taking a Donizetti opera from Italy Take some of the flavours of what you've just been describing in taking a Donizetti opera from Italy
2:10:11

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and putting it in outback Australia and putting it in outback Australia
2:10:13

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circa World War I with corrugated iron sheds, and sheep, and faraway hills. Again Nick Schlieper on the lights. Would circa World War I with corrugated iron sheds, and sheep, and faraway hills. Again Nick Schlieper on the lights. Would
2:10:24

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you like to talk about the evolution of that division with Simon Phillips again as the directive, you like to talk about the evolution of that division with Simon Phillips again as the directive,
2:10:29

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This very successful production in in in setting an opera in an Australian setting. [Mitchell] Well look I mentioned before This very successful production in in in setting an opera in an Australian setting. [Mitchell] Well look I mentioned before
2:10:39

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that one of the things that bonded particularly Nick and Simon and myself was a shared sense of humour. that one of the things that bonded particularly Nick and Simon and myself was a shared sense of humour.
2:10:46

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and we had so much fun putting that show together. We would, I think that was the time and we had so much fun putting that show together. We would, I think that was the time
2:10:54

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when I was doing The Tempest in Queensland with Simon. And we would meet on the weekends when I was doing The Tempest in Queensland with Simon. And we would meet on the weekends
2:10:59

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and talk about basically... reform ideas of... [Portus] and it's the same kind of inspiration. You were using an Australian setting here and talk about basically... reform ideas of... [Portus] and it's the same kind of inspiration. You were using an Australian setting here
2:11:05

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boldly for both productions. boldly for both productions.
2:11:08

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And the starting point of it actually was the the Shoalhaven and the artists that lived on the Shoalhaven, So Arthur Boyd  And the starting point of it actually was the the Shoalhaven and the artists that lived on the Shoalhaven, So Arthur Boyd 
2:11:21

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and the cohort of artists that were in that region and looking out that landscape. and the cohort of artists that were in that region and looking out that landscape.
2:11:28

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The ...one of my students ?Kario? ?Tilosova?, I suggested to Simon that they come together on that production. The ...one of my students ?Kario? ?Tilosova?, I suggested to Simon that they come together on that production.
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Ironically, they now work together the entire time. And unfortunately that was the the production which  Ironically, they now work together the entire time. And unfortunately that was the the production which 
2:11:49

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not because of that production, not because of that production,
2:11:50

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but because of another production that I was doing with Richard,  caused the disintegration of the relationship with Simon. We but because of another production that I was doing with Richard,  caused the disintegration of the relationship with Simon. We
2:12:01

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Richard and I did, in fact it's the last thing I did with Richard, which was the musical of Shout!  Richard and I did, in fact it's the last thing I did with Richard, which was the musical of Shout! 
2:12:08

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which was phenomenally successful. But ironically Simon's wife which was phenomenally successful. But ironically Simon's wife
2:12:14

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and Simon were developing another version of the Johnny O'Keefe story as a musical and ours got up and running before theirs. and Simon were developing another version of the Johnny O'Keefe story as a musical and ours got up and running before theirs.
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and they ... in what I think is a fairly twisted version of events, saw ... thought that I was sabotaging  and they ... in what I think is a fairly twisted version of events, saw ... thought that I was sabotaging 
2:12:30

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There's because I decide to some English and profit. There's because I decide to some English and profit.
2:12:32

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but I had been asked to do the other one.  but I had been asked to do the other one. 
2:12:33

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But anyway ...it just... we'd been very very close and unfortunately it touched a whole series of nerves which just lead to the disintegration of But anyway ...it just... we'd been very very close and unfortunately it touched a whole series of nerves which just lead to the disintegration of
2:12:41

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the relationship, but ... [Portus] That's unfortunate because it was such a profound collaboration with him that you have had over many ... the relationship, but ... [Portus] That's unfortunate because it was such a profound collaboration with him that you have had over many ...
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It is... and he would say there's nothing you can't turn your hand to. And that's lovely thing to say It is... and he would say there's nothing you can't turn your hand to. And that's lovely thing to say
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but I think that ...it says more about our relationship that we actually could go to lots of different places. but I think that ...it says more about our relationship that we actually could go to lots of different places.
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and without casting aspersions on the relationship was with them. and without casting aspersions on the relationship was with them.
2:13:13

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Gabriella, I think there is a fabulous but more limited language that they explore. It is a fantastic language, but it is Gabriella, I think there is a fabulous but more limited language that they explore. It is a fantastic language, but it is
2:13:23

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it has a [Portus] Director and a costume designer in [Michael]  and set designer [Portus] Set and costume designer  it has a [Portus] Director and a costume designer in [Michael]  and set designer [Portus] Set and costume designer 
2:13:29

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and costumes by Gabrielle. [Michael] Yeah [Portus] In further productions they come together [Michael] Yeah but anyway  and costumes by Gabrielle. [Michael] Yeah [Portus] In further productions they come together [Michael] Yeah but anyway 
2:13:35

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she did the costumes for that production -  fabulous. They were painted. she did the costumes for that production -  fabulous. They were painted.
2:13:39

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She painted into the cloth and it's kind of ironic that [Portus] For these World War I, well circa costumes  She painted into the cloth and it's kind of ironic that [Portus] For these World War I, well circa costumes 
2:13:48

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[Michael] but it comes back and comes back and comes back. and every time it comes back I think [Portus] That production? [Michael] Yeah there's that relationship with Simon that no longer exists. [Michael] but it comes back and comes back and comes back. and every time it comes back I think [Portus] That production? [Michael] Yeah there's that relationship with Simon that no longer exists.
2:13:57

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but [Portus] That's interesting it's in a period of the two productions you did with him about, with such vivid Australian ?scenery? but [Portus] That's interesting it's in a period of the two productions you did with him about, with such vivid Australian ?scenery?
2:14:03

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and Shout! which was such a successful musical about an Australian icon Johnny O'Keefe. [Michael] yeah and Shout! which was such a successful musical about an Australian icon Johnny O'Keefe. [Michael] yeah
2:14:10

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[Portus] and after the cauldron you were relishing Australia. [Michael] Absolutely and [Portus] and after the cauldron you were relishing Australia. [Michael] Absolutely and
2:14:16

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and I remember Wayne Harrison saying after the cauldron, ...he'd moved to London and he said  and I remember Wayne Harrison saying after the cauldron, ...he'd moved to London and he said 
2:14:24

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I don't understand why he didn't come straight over to London because you could have had any job you wanted on the planet after that.  I don't understand why he didn't come straight over to London because you could have had any job you wanted on the planet after that. 
2:14:31

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I mean the British was so impressed by the cauldron. But I've always felt that I wanted to be here and, I mean the British was so impressed by the cauldron. But I've always felt that I wanted to be here and,
2:14:41

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when appropriate work would take me elsewhere, but I didn't want to base myself somewhere else. Because I guess at the end of the day. when appropriate work would take me elsewhere, but I didn't want to base myself somewhere else. Because I guess at the end of the day.
2:14:49

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This is my world and this is where I draw my language from. [Portus] You must have had after the Ring, which we'll get to eventually, but  This is my world and this is where I draw my language from. [Portus] You must have had after the Ring, which we'll get to eventually, but 
2:14:57

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that as further opportunities to go overseas, that as further opportunities to go overseas,
2:15:01

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but that's remains your argument of not being interested so much in working overseas. [Michael] No although perhaps now that I  but that's remains your argument of not being interested so much in working overseas. [Michael] No although perhaps now that I 
2:15:11

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our daughter has moved to London maybe I will think about it. But that is down the track, our daughter has moved to London maybe I will think about it. But that is down the track,
2:15:16

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but you know... [Portus] With the Ring, about now, at this time of  Australian of this relishing of Australian content, you are but you know... [Portus] With the Ring, about now, at this time of  Australian of this relishing of Australian content, you are
2:15:27

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you retreated with Elke Neidhardt and Nick Schlieper and costume designer Stephen Curtis, costume you retreated with Elke Neidhardt and Nick Schlieper and costume designer Stephen Curtis, costume
2:15:34

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?designer? in this case to the Blue Mountains to nut out what the hell ?designer? in this case to the Blue Mountains to nut out what the hell
2:15:39

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You're gonna do with seventeen hours of The Ring in what was to be the first Australian full production of the opera.  You're gonna do with seventeen hours of The Ring in what was to be the first Australian full production of the opera. 
2:15:47

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to be staged in 2004 to be staged in 2004
2:15:49

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 in Adelaide. How did that meeting go?  Did you work much out in the first few days? [Mitchell] Funnily enough   in Adelaide. How did that meeting go?  Did you work much out in the first few days? [Mitchell] Funnily enough 
2:16:01

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that has all the sandpit. that has all the sandpit.
2:16:03

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Anyway, Anyway,
2:16:03

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We we gave ourselves ten days. So we just knew that we had to build the foundations of the production in those ten We we gave ourselves ten days. So we just knew that we had to build the foundations of the production in those ten
2:16:12

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names. names.
2:16:13

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It took 's three It took 's three
2:16:15

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and a half days working from reasonably early in the morning till reason related my to work our way through the and a half days working from reasonably early in the morning till reason related my to work our way through the
2:16:24

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overture of Rheingold. overture of Rheingold.
2:16:26

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And that's about the pace at which we took the entire work. So that's shall we say five minutes of six And that's about the pace at which we took the entire work. So that's shall we say five minutes of six
2:16:34

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and half hours of work on stage. But what we were doing was working out what our framework was. And that was a very, and half hours of work on stage. But what we were doing was working out what our framework was. And that was a very,
2:16:45

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very, very important series of discussions. The great thing that I think Elke brought to that production was very, very important series of discussions. The great thing that I think Elke brought to that production was
2:16:56

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one of those moments where she actually was the perfect fit for doing Australia's first Ring Cycle. one of those moments where she actually was the perfect fit for doing Australia's first Ring Cycle.
2:17:02

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She had been a resident Director of the Cologne Opera and she had remounted 4 Ring Cycles for other directors, She had been a resident Director of the Cologne Opera and she had remounted 4 Ring Cycles for other directors,
2:17:10

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so she knew it absolutely inside out. so she knew it absolutely inside out.
2:17:16

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There was there was, and continues in some ways to be, an expression in Germany in some other countries, where they know that There was there was, and continues in some ways to be, an expression in Germany in some other countries, where they know that
2:17:25

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work inside out. work inside out.
2:17:26

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It's in their blood. So designer-director teams tend to be obscure shall we say  It's in their blood. So designer-director teams tend to be obscure shall we say 
2:17:34

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or you know the black garbage bag version of the Ring cycle or basically  designing, or do something new or you know the black garbage bag version of the Ring cycle or basically  designing, or do something new
2:17:42

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and intelligent and intelligent
2:17:43

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and not following tradition at all. But Elke said, and I think this was a really an important thought that because this was and not following tradition at all. But Elke said, and I think this was a really an important thought that because this was
2:17:52

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Australia's first fully fledged Ring Cycle that we needed above all to tell the story very clearly Australia's first fully fledged Ring Cycle that we needed above all to tell the story very clearly
2:17:58

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and simply. Because the Australian audiences regardless of the fact that there's this migrating fleet of birds call the Ring Cycle and simply. Because the Australian audiences regardless of the fact that there's this migrating fleet of birds call the Ring Cycle
2:18:08

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Aficionados that follow the Ring cycles around the planet... That it was important in Australian culture to tell that story  Aficionados that follow the Ring cycles around the planet... That it was important in Australian culture to tell that story 
2:18:15

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Clearly, Clearly,
2:18:16

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regardless of stylistically where the piece went. But of course it would influence that as well.  But the other, as I say the great thing was regardless of stylistically where the piece went. But of course it would influence that as well.  But the other, as I say the great thing was
2:18:25

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that she knew it inside out. And she knew, as she had shown in Tannhauser, she knew that she knew it inside out. And she knew, as she had shown in Tannhauser, she knew
2:18:33

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when it was appropriate to be witty, humorous, irreverent and when it was important to flip out of that and be very very serious. when it was appropriate to be witty, humorous, irreverent and when it was important to flip out of that and be very very serious.
2:18:42

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So she she directorially, so understood the landscape, so understood the work,  understood the referencing and when So she she directorially, so understood the landscape, so understood the work,  understood the referencing and when
2:18:52

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and how to be playful with it. [Portus] So she could liberate herself from the own German baggage that she carried? [Mitchell] Yeah. Well I mean   and how to be playful with it. [Portus] So she could liberate herself from the own German baggage that she carried? [Mitchell] Yeah. Well I mean  
2:18:59

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she was the vet in Skippy. But no she was the vet in Skippy. But no
2:19:03

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she, which she...[Portus] I didn't know that. [Mitchell] She took that job on having arrived in Australia not speaking a word of English she, which she...[Portus] I didn't know that. [Mitchell] She took that job on having arrived in Australia not speaking a word of English
2:19:11

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and learnt it by rote in a caravan. Amazing woman. So [Portus] So one  uncluttered with old symbols and learnt it by rote in a caravan. Amazing woman. So [Portus] So one  uncluttered with old symbols
2:19:23

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or obscurities and with a modern setting but sort of unlimited by time. [Mitchell]  It's a funny term or obscurities and with a modern setting but sort of unlimited by time. [Mitchell]  It's a funny term
2:19:32

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The modern setting. I mean it's  The modern setting. I mean it's 
2:19:34

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 just, in terms of the set and that world, that's just my design work. If if I guess I'm contemporary modern designer,  just, in terms of the set and that world, that's just my design work. If if I guess I'm contemporary modern designer,
2:19:42

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then that's contemporary and modern. But it's it. then that's contemporary and modern. But it's it.
2:19:50

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He goes back to being an interpretive artist in that that actually what you do is how you see the wall He goes back to being an interpretive artist in that that actually what you do is how you see the wall
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and how you see the best way of exploring that work with your collaborators, and how you see the best way of exploring that work with your collaborators,
2:20:04

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and if that takes into on must take then so be it. and if that takes into on must take then so be it.
2:20:07

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It ain't unsustainable and slight aside there, but yes, it it it took It ain't unsustainable and slight aside there, but yes, it it it took
2:20:14

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 probably took a year and a half actually to get entirely through it, [Portus] Did the 4 of you - lights, costume, set, director  probably took a year and a half actually to get entirely through it, [Portus] Did the 4 of you - lights, costume, set, director
2:20:25

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work together always on it. [Mitchell] We did for the ten days then it tended to be Elke and Stephen talking independently. work together always on it. [Mitchell] We did for the ten days then it tended to be Elke and Stephen talking independently.
2:20:35

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our occasions we came together but the draw. our occasions we came together but the draw.
2:20:38

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 force really between, in the development of the set was Nick, Elke, myself meeting fairly regularly. for hours.  force really between, in the development of the set was Nick, Elke, myself meeting fairly regularly. for hours.
2:20:50

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and Elke was fantastic. And she she'd very, very religiously write down notes of everything we'd talk about.  and Elke was fantastic. And she she'd very, very religiously write down notes of everything we'd talk about. 
2:20:58

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and then promptly forget all about what we'd said. So... but it and then promptly forget all about what we'd said. So... but it
2:21:02

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but so the routine was basically I'd sit there with my computer. We'd talk about ideas. but so the routine was basically I'd sit there with my computer. We'd talk about ideas.
2:21:08

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I'd be, have a thought. I'd sketch it out on the computer. We'd talk further about that.  da da da  I'd be, have a thought. I'd sketch it out on the computer. We'd talk further about that.  da da da 
2:21:14

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and Elke would say: oh you're not going to show me another section are you?  But anyway it and Elke would say: oh you're not going to show me another section are you?  But anyway it
2:21:21

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and of course the beauty of, by that stage,  Nick and I had a complete shorthand which you know is fabulous and and of course the beauty of, by that stage,  Nick and I had a complete shorthand which you know is fabulous and
2:21:33

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and knew absolutely where one another were heading with an idea.  and I'm not even going to  and knew absolutely where one another were heading with an idea.  and I'm not even going to 
2:21:38

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say about how that evolves into a form or a light. But the other fabulous thing about NIck is that he had a) been the senior stage manager  say about how that evolves into a form or a light. But the other fabulous thing about NIck is that he had a) been the senior stage manager 
2:21:50

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Doctor B. Doctor B.
2:21:52

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b) He was the lighting designer. But what the stage management skill b) He was the lighting designer. But what the stage management skill
2:21:56

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and his ability to read music gave us, was a very clear guideline of ... okay this truck has to move on this bar and his ability to read music gave us, was a very clear guideline of ... okay this truck has to move on this bar
2:22:08

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and it's got the this amount of time to get to its position. So how far is it  travelling? What's the bar? What's the cue?  and it's got the this amount of time to get to its position. So how far is it  travelling? What's the bar? What's the cue? 
2:22:16

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Bang. So it was absolute. Bang. So it was absolute.
2:22:19

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We gave them a Bible going into rehearsal of every set move and exactly on what bar it would start to move and We gave them a Bible going into rehearsal of every set move and exactly on what bar it would start to move and
2:22:26

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when it would finish and ... Which of course then, and this is I am sure you will glaze over, when it would finish and ... Which of course then, and this is I am sure you will glaze over,
2:22:31

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but this is where those things,  those bits of information become very important to a builder. Who has to go: tell me what but this is where those things,  those bits of information become very important to a builder. Who has to go: tell me what
2:22:39

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speed that piece has to move downstage. and you go; well it's from this bar to this bar which we know is 9 seconds. So speed that piece has to move downstage. and you go; well it's from this bar to this bar which we know is 9 seconds. So
2:22:48

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there's actually a method in the madness. It ///[Portus] What.. tell me a bit more about the logistics in production there's actually a method in the madness. It ///[Portus] What.. tell me a bit more about the logistics in production
2:22:56

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management of it and did not your wife work for a year in that role? [Mitchell] Well [Portus] in building management of it and did not your wife work for a year in that role? [Mitchell] Well [Portus] in building
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and assembling this thing on time and budget. [Mitchell] On the one hand, you'd have to say of the State Opera of South Australia. and assembling this thing on time and budget. [Mitchell] On the one hand, you'd have to say of the State Opera of South Australia.
2:23:09

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What a brave decision of the [Portus] of Australia's smallest Opera company, What a brave decision of the [Portus] of Australia's smallest Opera company,
2:23:14

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[Mitchell] Yes [Portus] doing the largest work [Mitchell] A  company that has a staff of four, one of whom is the receptionist. [Mitchell] Yes [Portus] doing the largest work [Mitchell] A  company that has a staff of four, one of whom is the receptionist.
2:23:19

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This is not a production house. This is not a production house.
2:23:21

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This is a house that that brings in existing productions. And that's not entirely fair because they had had a track record of This is a house that that brings in existing productions. And that's not entirely fair because they had had a track record of
2:23:29

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doing some quite interesting work. But they weren't really geared for doing, really geared for doing shows, certainly not shows the size of  doing some quite interesting work. But they weren't really geared for doing, really geared for doing shows, certainly not shows the size of 
2:23:37

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and certainly not a Ring Cycle. So great intention, so we ... it's probably  worth elaborating a little bit, and certainly not a Ring Cycle. So great intention, so we ... it's probably  worth elaborating a little bit,
2:23:48

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but it had taken... the design and modelmaking process had taken 2 years. but it had taken... the design and modelmaking process had taken 2 years.
2:23:56

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I think I hold the record for the most expensive model in Australian history  I think I hold the record for the most expensive model in Australian history 
2:23:59

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which is $345,000 on the model which is $345,000 on the model
2:24:04

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and at times there were twenty people working around the clock to get it finished. [Portus] Where is the model now? [Mitchell] It's sitting in the and at times there were twenty people working around the clock to get it finished. [Portus] Where is the model now? [Mitchell] It's sitting in the
2:24:11

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boardroom at SOSA. [Portus] SOSA is ? [Mitchell] State Opera of South Australia.  boardroom at SOSA. [Portus] SOSA is ? [Mitchell] State Opera of South Australia. 
2:24:16

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So it was bequeathed to the ... what's it called? The museum... Performing Arts Museum of South Australia  So it was bequeathed to the ... what's it called? The museum... Performing Arts Museum of South Australia 
2:24:24

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but actually I am going to ask to get it for..[Portus[ Within the Festival Centre in Adelaide? [Mitchell] Yes I'm going  but actually I am going to ask to get it for..[Portus[ Within the Festival Centre in Adelaide? [Mitchell] Yes I'm going 
2:24:30

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ask to bring it up to Sydney. I want to do a retrospective of lots of things in NIDA. But anyway.. so having finished this ask to bring it up to Sydney. I want to do a retrospective of lots of things in NIDA. But anyway.. so having finished this
2:24:41

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unbelievable task of designing and modelmaking 4 big operas in one , which is the Cycle, the unbelievable task of designing and modelmaking 4 big operas in one , which is the Cycle, the
2:24:53

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and it had been a very expensive exercise and whatever. So I thought that model is not leaving my hands. and it had been a very expensive exercise and whatever. So I thought that model is not leaving my hands.
2:25:02

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I hired a three tonne truck and with my 2IC who had run the model department,  together I hired a three tonne truck and with my 2IC who had run the model department,  together
2:25:08

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We drove its Adelaide We drove its Adelaide
2:25:10

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and unloaded it. So we were asked to do a presentation to, essentially to  every party that was interested in building it and unloaded it. So we were asked to do a presentation to, essentially to  every party that was interested in building it
2:25:21

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but also key people from the government and various other places. [Portus] You were auditioning people to build it? [Mitchell] No. People coming to do a but also key people from the government and various other places. [Portus] You were auditioning people to build it? [Mitchell] No. People coming to do a
2:25:31

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costing,  look at whether they were costing,  look at whether they were
2:25:34

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gonna ... essentially people in South Australia but from some other states who were going to look at building the show. And  gonna ... essentially people in South Australia but from some other states who were going to look at building the show. And 
2:25:45

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[Portus] And there were options to build it in different cities? [Mitchell]  well, there were options as as there always are. [Portus] And there were options to build it in different cities? [Mitchell]  well, there were options as as there always are.
2:25:52

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with opera. But anyway, so we do a presentation in the SOSA rehearsal room, which is a big space with opera. But anyway, so we do a presentation in the SOSA rehearsal room, which is a big space
2:26:01

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and we had set up a curtain across one third of the room and we had set up a curtain across one third of the room
2:26:05

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but huge curtain, Sticking out of the middle of it is the front of the model. Behind that are I think there were seven but huge curtain, Sticking out of the middle of it is the front of the model. Behind that are I think there were seven
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or eight large tables covered in model or eight large tables covered in model
2:26:17

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and a crew of seven who are doing the scene changes behind this curtain. While I was out the front talking things through. So and a crew of seven who are doing the scene changes behind this curtain. While I was out the front talking things through. So
2:26:24

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it took 7 hours to present the 4 operas. And we get to the end of that and Stephen Phillips, the artistic it took 7 hours to present the 4 operas. And we get to the end of that and Stephen Phillips, the artistic
2:26:35

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he isn't call artistic director, but artistic executive or whatever his title was. So that's fantastic he isn't call artistic director, but artistic executive or whatever his title was. So that's fantastic
2:26:40

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but can you do a shorter working mouth of the board but can you do a shorter working mouth of the board
2:26:43

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and can you keep it to 3 hours. So we do...  [Portus] The speeded up version? [Mitchell] The speeded up version, did a bit of an edit, blah blah, we get through and can you keep it to 3 hours. So we do...  [Portus] The speeded up version? [Mitchell] The speeded up version, did a bit of an edit, blah blah, we get through
2:26:54

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the three hours. The Board loves it, da da ...So we've done. the three hours. The Board loves it, da da ...So we've done.
2:26:59

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I had driven from Sydney the night before, we had done ten hours of presentation, I'd answered questions from people I had driven from Sydney the night before, we had done ten hours of presentation, I'd answered questions from people
2:27:06

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who had come to cost the show. And Steve Phillips said... there were about twenty of us in the team there. No stay for a drink who had come to cost the show. And Steve Phillips said... there were about twenty of us in the team there. No stay for a drink
2:27:16

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and I think oh well thank goodness. and I think oh well thank goodness.
2:27:18

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and thanks for asking. Two bottles of red and two bottles of white and a packet of Jatz. And we   and thanks for asking. Two bottles of red and two bottles of white and a packet of Jatz. And we  
2:27:26

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went, and I remember at one point: Stephen could we have one more bottle of wine? went, and I remember at one point: Stephen could we have one more bottle of wine?
2:27:31

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Get the keys out and open the cabinet.  Anyway so luckily, Get the keys out and open the cabinet.  Anyway so luckily,
2:27:37

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the chair of the Board was there and he said. the chair of the Board was there and he said.
2:27:39

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Well I hope you're being taken out to dinner. I mean you certainly deserve after all that. It was a Friday night. We couldn't get it. Well I hope you're being taken out to dinner. I mean you certainly deserve after all that. It was a Friday night. We couldn't get it.
2:27:45

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He was on the phone ringing around. We said no no, nothing's been organised. Oh that's ridiculous, He was on the phone ringing around. We said no no, nothing's been organised. Oh that's ridiculous,
2:27:50

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So he rings around can't get us in anywhere, he said: Not to worry, you are all coming back to my place. So he rings around can't get us in anywhere, he said: Not to worry, you are all coming back to my place.
2:27:56

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when it was his birthday, the next day when it was his birthday, the next day
2:27:58

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and he and his wife had bought all the food for the lunch they were going to have next day. Which they cooked up into the most fabulous meal for and he and his wife had bought all the food for the lunch they were going to have next day. Which they cooked up into the most fabulous meal for
2:28:04

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us. Anyway, it's an aside. A very very generous man so we.. [Portus] The name of...[Michael] Names are not good for me today. us. Anyway, it's an aside. A very very generous man so we.. [Portus] The name of...[Michael] Names are not good for me today.
2:28:16

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They're all... They've all gone under the  [Portus]  The current chair of the... [Michael] No he was the chair at that time, They're all... They've all gone under the  [Portus]  The current chair of the... [Michael] No he was the chair at that time,
2:28:20

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which is in 2000  - yeah the current chair at that time. So we go back to Sydney which is in 2000  - yeah the current chair at that time. So we go back to Sydney
2:28:25

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and we asked the company to respond to us to say, and we asked the company to respond to us to say,
2:28:30

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Can you give us what you think are the requirements of the build of this,  what we've just presented? Can you give us what you think are the requirements of the build of this,  what we've just presented?
2:28:36

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And their production manager came back with two A4 pages with a very thin list of what he thought were the And their production manager came back with two A4 pages with a very thin list of what he thought were the
2:28:44

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requirements for building the show. And Nick and Lisa, my wife and I  looked at it and went, and Chris Potter was there on secondment from the  Opera  and went, Oh my god  requirements for building the show. And Nick and Lisa, my wife and I  looked at it and went, and Chris Potter was there on secondment from the  Opera  and went, Oh my god 
2:28:55

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They've got no idea. They've got no idea what this is going to take. So we wrote in response 34 A3 pages of They've got no idea. They've got no idea what this is going to take. So we wrote in response 34 A3 pages of
2:29:04

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very tightly packed text of what was required to build the show. Long story short, very tightly packed text of what was required to build the show. Long story short,
2:29:10

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their production manager took one at this and bolted. And Lisa went, we all went pointing at her their production manager took one at this and bolted. And Lisa went, we all went pointing at her
2:29:19

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You have to do it, You have to do it,
2:29:21

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So from our lounge room in Artarmon, with a two year old and a three -year-old,  she production managed for that first year So from our lounge room in Artarmon, with a two year old and a three -year-old,  she production managed for that first year
2:29:30

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the build of... commissioned 22 companies around Australia to build the show the build of... commissioned 22 companies around Australia to build the show
2:29:33

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and managed the budget and whatever. [Portus]  Built them, all building different parts of it. [Michael] Yes so she literally cut up the design in and managed the budget and whatever. [Portus]  Built them, all building different parts of it. [Michael] Yes so she literally cut up the design in
2:29:41

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discussion with with Nick and myself and Chris discussion with with Nick and myself and Chris
2:29:44

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and we farmed out portions of it to 22 companies [Portus] Across Australia? [Michael] Across Australia and we farmed out portions of it to 22 companies [Portus] Across Australia? [Michael] Across Australia
2:29:48

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and worked out a schedule for Nick and myself, particularly at times for Chris to travel around Australia, and worked out a schedule for Nick and myself, particularly at times for Chris to travel around Australia,
2:29:55

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So we would do Perth, Melbourne, stuff being done in Canberra and you know Brisbane, So we would do Perth, Melbourne, stuff being done in Canberra and you know Brisbane,
2:30:06

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you name it. It was like everywhere. [Portus]  And part of it was to build some of the incredible images that you've created. Could we  you name it. It was like everywhere. [Portus]  And part of it was to build some of the incredible images that you've created. Could we 
2:30:14

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finish with the Ring by you remembering some of the images that you're most proud of? Like the director finish with the Ring by you remembering some of the images that you're most proud of? Like the director
2:30:23

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wanted to, wanted another cauldron for a start didn't she? wanted to, wanted another cauldron for a start didn't she?
2:30:27

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She did and I, she basically said  She did and I, she basically said 
2:30:31

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Look I'm not having the design of the Olympic cauldron on Ring Cycle and not referencing that on Brunhilde's Rock. And I thought well Look I'm not having the design of the Olympic cauldron on Ring Cycle and not referencing that on Brunhilde's Rock. And I thought well
2:30:40

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well I don't really want to go there exactly again. And in my thinking about the Ring I had realised more well I don't really want to go there exactly again. And in my thinking about the Ring I had realised more
2:30:50

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and more the strong parallel between between Wortan and Brunhilde his daughter and more the strong parallel between between Wortan and Brunhilde his daughter
2:30:59

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and Prospero and Miranda. [Portus] The Tempest? [Michael] There is a very strong parallel between those two characters. Both Prospero and Prospero and Miranda. [Portus] The Tempest? [Michael] There is a very strong parallel between those two characters. Both Prospero
2:31:08

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and Wortan have a magic staff. They wield magic. and Wortan have a magic staff. They wield magic.
2:31:12

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They can, are trying to control their daughter from the invasion of lovers. And so there were very strong parallels  They can, are trying to control their daughter from the invasion of lovers. And so there were very strong parallels 
2:31:20

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and I... we'd mentioned the production of the Tempest, that I had done with Simon and I... we'd mentioned the production of the Tempest, that I had done with Simon
2:31:25

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and for the the youth Hills seen where Prost Rose is making a magic circle. and for the the youth Hills seen where Prost Rose is making a magic circle.
2:31:32

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We had twelve very simple clay pots set on to the red Earth that he then lived with the staff We had twelve very simple clay pots set on to the red Earth that he then lived with the staff
2:31:41

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and and I thought well actually, I want to revisit that image. So there were 12 flame ports built into the deck and and I thought well actually, I want to revisit that image. So there were 12 flame ports built into the deck
2:31:53

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and he went around with his staff were treated them one by one, and he went around with his staff were treated them one by one,
2:31:59

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Essentially building a wall around the disc that Brunhilde ended up on. There are many images in that production, Essentially building a wall around the disc that Brunhilde ended up on. There are many images in that production,
2:32:12

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which I very fond of. which I very fond of.
2:32:14

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I think probably, arguably one of the images I am most fond of of anything ever done is a photo that I took myself of of I think probably, arguably one of the images I am most fond of of anything ever done is a photo that I took myself of of
2:32:24

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Erda on the electric blue light box behind the water curtain. Which is a very dare i say  abstract image Erda on the electric blue light box behind the water curtain. Which is a very dare i say  abstract image
2:32:35

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But it's a very beautiful image. And it represented so many things to me about the production But it's a very beautiful image. And it represented so many things to me about the production
2:32:42

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and also my thinking up to that point in time about different aspects and also my thinking up to that point in time about different aspects
2:32:47

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and in fact, it is worth just going back a little bit here because I have talked about some conductors that and in fact, it is worth just going back a little bit here because I have talked about some conductors that
2:32:56

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?Elke? and I had worked with, and that they can be surprise surprise a difficult breed. ?Elke? and I had worked with, and that they can be surprise surprise a difficult breed.
2:33:03

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I'm not saying designers and directors can't be,  or actors or performers or whatever I'm not saying designers and directors can't be,  or actors or performers or whatever
2:33:06

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but there is a tension there between, particularly a director and a  conductor in the world of opera but there is a tension there between, particularly a director and a  conductor in the world of opera
2:33:14

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and sometimes it flares with Les badly, and sometimes it flares with Les badly,
2:33:17

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but we had a total gift. We had Asher Fish who is an Israeli director who lives in New York but we had a total gift. We had Asher Fish who is an Israeli director who lives in New York
2:33:24

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and he came to us with an opening gambit to say: I have been thinking about the overture of Rheingold obviously where we started in the and he came to us with an opening gambit to say: I have been thinking about the overture of Rheingold obviously where we started in the
2:33:34

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sandpit for those 4 days. And said I would like it to be played in complete pitch blackout. sandpit for those 4 days. And said I would like it to be played in complete pitch blackout.
2:33:42

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And Nick's saying, do you mean a real blackout?  He said yeah. I think it should be a complete pitch black out. So the first three And Nick's saying, do you mean a real blackout?  He said yeah. I think it should be a complete pitch black out. So the first three
2:33:50

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and a half minutes, which of course are those extraordinary chords that are,  you know build and build and a half minutes, which of course are those extraordinary chords that are,  you know build and build
2:33:57

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and build but they are essentially about the creation of the world. And Erda is in many ways a kind of earth mother, and build but they are essentially about the creation of the world. And Erda is in many ways a kind of earth mother,
2:34:06

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and in our production bringing water into the world. I had done a production of Rinaldo for Opera Australia and in our production bringing water into the world. I had done a production of Rinaldo for Opera Australia
2:34:15

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and there is a sequence in Rinaldo where Rinaldo is trying, is on his quest to save his girlfriend and there is a sequence in Rinaldo where Rinaldo is trying, is on his quest to save his girlfriend
2:34:26

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and becomes a river and across the river are signs her singing and becomes a river and across the river are signs her singing
2:34:31

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and they bring a boat across river and they invite Rinaldo into the boat and then cross the river again. and they bring a boat across river and they invite Rinaldo into the boat and then cross the river again.
2:34:39

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And I was interested in that production in exploring the notion of mediaeval art And I was interested in that production in exploring the notion of mediaeval art
2:34:47

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and religious art in particular, that is very, very flat. and religious art in particular, that is very, very flat.
2:34:51

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Yes, it has guilt work but essentially it is a flat two-dimensional world Yes, it has guilt work but essentially it is a flat two-dimensional world
2:34:55

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and how you could take a two-dimensional image and breathe three- dimensionality into it. So... and how you could take a two-dimensional image and breathe three- dimensionality into it. So...
2:35:02

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and I was doing that in different ways. and I was doing that in different ways.
2:35:05

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The first part of the design, but The first part of the design, but
2:35:06

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when we got to this moment where where Rinaldo had to leave the safety, if you like, of the two-dimensional world and travel when we got to this moment where where Rinaldo had to leave the safety, if you like, of the two-dimensional world and travel
2:35:15

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into a three-dimensional world that was dangerous and having to deal with sorceresses armed sirens into a three-dimensional world that was dangerous and having to deal with sorceresses armed sirens
2:35:24

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and whatever that's where the world had to become three-dimensional. So the image started with three sirens in the boat which was and whatever that's where the world had to become three-dimensional. So the image started with three sirens in the boat which was
2:35:34

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a skeletal  boat that we see through a gauze that had gold leaf floating across it. So it's like looking down onto the a skeletal  boat that we see through a gauze that had gold leaf floating across it. So it's like looking down onto the
2:35:44

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pond almost with a gold league is literally floating across the lawn surface. pond almost with a gold league is literally floating across the lawn surface.
2:35:49

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of the water. [Portus] Suggestive of a two dimensional byzantine... [Michael] A two of the water. [Portus] Suggestive of a two dimensional byzantine... [Michael] A two
2:35:52

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Yes, that's right. So what we were seeing was the boat actually vertical with the sirens sitting in it seen through a gauze and Yes, that's right. So what we were seeing was the boat actually vertical with the sirens sitting in it seen through a gauze and
2:36:02

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and a two...total two-dimensionality. The gauze goes out and then the boat starts to move down towards us and a two...total two-dimensionality. The gauze goes out and then the boat starts to move down towards us
2:36:09

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and the audience, so it's moving out of its 2-D plane into 3-D and when it arrives and the audience, so it's moving out of its 2-D plane into 3-D and when it arrives
2:36:15

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The the sirens get out of the but they, and at joined by another group dances The the sirens get out of the but they, and at joined by another group dances
2:36:22

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and start ?manipulating? the boat, and end up seducing Rinaldo into it and start ?manipulating? the boat, and end up seducing Rinaldo into it
2:36:28

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and then it goes back up to the vertical and he tracks away into the distance. It was actually a very beautiful sequence and then it goes back up to the vertical and he tracks away into the distance. It was actually a very beautiful sequence
2:36:36

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but it was about that very idea about how does psychologically the shift from 2-D to 3-D and how does that affect us and  but it was about that very idea about how does psychologically the shift from 2-D to 3-D and how does that affect us and 
2:36:46

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when is appropriate in a space, dare I say. [Portus] From Rinaldo to the Ring? [Michael] Yes. So I re-explored that that idea in coming out when is appropriate in a space, dare I say. [Portus] From Rinaldo to the Ring? [Michael] Yes. So I re-explored that that idea in coming out
2:36:58

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of the pitch blackout, that there was an electric blue square that Erda was sitting on, you couldn't see the attachment to her, but as it arrived of the pitch blackout, that there was an electric blue square that Erda was sitting on, you couldn't see the attachment to her, but as it arrived
2:37:09

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It started sweeping down towards is It started sweeping down towards is
2:37:11

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and at that point in time 20,000 litres of water was released from the proscenium and at that point in time 20,000 litres of water was released from the proscenium
2:37:19

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And one final little story before we finish this, WH&S which of course now rules our lives,  we had to assess every single And one final little story before we finish this, WH&S which of course now rules our lives,  we had to assess every single
2:37:27

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thing as you do on a production. And we had a psychologist who had come in thing as you do on a production. And we had a psychologist who had come in
2:37:33

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and work out how the pitch blackout would affect an audience. and work out how the pitch blackout would affect an audience.
2:37:37

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We had to gather the entire hundred We had to gather the entire hundred
2:37:39

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and thirty piece orchestra to do a demonstration. So Nick had organised every single exit and every ... It was so black and thirty piece orchestra to do a demonstration. So Nick had organised every single exit and every ... It was so black
2:37:46

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that your eyes were tingling. That sort of ... you couldn't see a single thing. We'd do the three and a half minutes that your eyes were tingling. That sort of ... you couldn't see a single thing. We'd do the three and a half minutes
2:37:53

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Noel Staunton who by this time has become executive producer, comes across the psychologist and says: So, What did you think about that? Noel Staunton who by this time has become executive producer, comes across the psychologist and says: So, What did you think about that?
2:38:03

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and she stroking her chin says, look I think it'll be all right and she stroking her chin says, look I think it'll be all right
2:38:08

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but we're going to need a team of psychologist waiting outside the doors of the theatre when the audience comes out. [Portus] We'll leave  but we're going to need a team of psychologist waiting outside the doors of the theatre when the audience comes out. [Portus] We'll leave 
2:38:17

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on that note on that note