Amplify

Transcription Conventions		Examples
Language	English (Australian)	“Colour” not “Color”, “Organise” not “Organize”
Contractions	Transcribe as you hear them	“Shoulda”, “Didn’t”
Numbers	Transcribe as numerals	“11 West 40th Street”
Filled Pauses & Hesitations	Transcribe as you hear them	“ah”, “eh”, “um”
Noise	Transcribe in brackets; use descriptive language	“And then we [door slam]”, “So cold! [Brrrrr]”
Partial words	If someone stops speaking in the middle of a word, transcribe as much of the word as they say; follow it with a dash	“Tes- Testing”, “Absolu- Absolutely”
Hard-to-understand	For speech that is difficult or impossible to understand, use question marks before and after	“And she told me that ?I should just leave?”, “Her name was ?inaudible?”
Change of speaker	Sometimes multiple people will speak on the same line. Use square brackets to indicate change of speaker.	[John] Yes, it was a very interesting time. [Susan] And what have you learnt from it?

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My name's Ingrid McGaughey and I'm having a My name's Ingrid McGaughey and I'm having a

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conversation with Ray, or "Gaffa" McMahon as he's most commonly known. Ray was the conversation with Ray, or "Gaffa" McMahon as he's most commonly known. Ray was the

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officer in charge of Mawson in 1963 and today's date is the 1st of August 2011. Hello officer in charge of Mawson in 1963 and today's date is the 1st of August 2011. Hello

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[Ray] Hello Ingrid. [Ingrid] Ray, can you tell me what made you think of going to Antarctica in the first place? [Ray] Well I guess [Ray] Hello Ingrid. [Ingrid] Ray, can you tell me what made you think of going to Antarctica in the first place? [Ray] Well I guess

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every s- every story has a beginning [Ray clears throat] and I'm a every s- every story has a beginning [Ray clears throat] and I'm a

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a byproduct of. The post-war years of the war years and as a byproduct of. The post-war years of the war years and as

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a result of that I... had to break the shackles of living in a result of that I... had to break the shackles of living in

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a total female environment. Because all the menfolk were away because of the wars. And to do that a total female environment. Because all the menfolk were away because of the wars. And to do that

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I became quite adventurous by taking off on little excursions by myself on the bike I became quite adventurous by taking off on little excursions by myself on the bike

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down to the creek, the ?abbey? and when I become old enough I decided that the down to the creek, the ?abbey? and when I become old enough I decided that the

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grass could be greener on the other side. The ships, the migrant ships, were leaving to go grass could be greener on the other side. The ships, the migrant ships, were leaving to go

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back to Europe in the 50s, empty, and I could get a berth for about back to Europe in the 50s, empty, and I could get a berth for about

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a $100.00 to go to Europe. 100 pound I'm sorry. And this was virtually the start a $100.00 to go to Europe. 100 pound I'm sorry. And this was virtually the start

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of of

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an adventurous life. The only time I'd left Australia prior to this was doing national an adventurous life. The only time I'd left Australia prior to this was doing national

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service when I was an 18 year old. I did National Service in the Navy and that took me service when I was an 18 year old. I did National Service in the Navy and that took me

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to wonderful places like New Zealand and Tasmania and South Australia. I just got the to wonderful places like New Zealand and Tasmania and South Australia. I just got the

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feeling that this sounds a good life so at, um, late twenties I bought feeling that this sounds a good life so at, um, late twenties I bought

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a 100 dollar ticket, 100 pound ticket, to go to Europe and here I am now in post-war a 100 dollar ticket, 100 pound ticket, to go to Europe and here I am now in post-war

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Europe as Europe as

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a young Australian with, all I had was my return fare to come back to Australia and so a young Australian with, all I had was my return fare to come back to Australia and so

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I had to make whatever I could of this holiday on the other side of the world. I had to make whatever I could of this holiday on the other side of the world.

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I enjoyed travelling around Britain, I then worked I enjoyed travelling around Britain, I then worked

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a bit, got some money then I went to Europe. And unfortunately the country I chose a bit, got some money then I went to Europe. And unfortunately the country I chose

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to travel through in 1956 was Hungary. And as I'm entering one end of Hungary to travel through in 1956 was Hungary. And as I'm entering one end of Hungary

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the Russians are invading from the other. So, I decided that this wasn't for me the Russians are invading from the other. So, I decided that this wasn't for me

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so so

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I skipped back to England only to be called up into the British Navy because Colonel I skipped back to England only to be called up into the British Navy because Colonel

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Nasser had blockaded the Suez Canal. I'm now right in the beginning of Nasser had blockaded the Suez Canal. I'm now right in the beginning of

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a quite an adventurous life because not wanting to serve in the British Navy a quite an adventurous life because not wanting to serve in the British Navy

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as result of me doing national service in as result of me doing national service in

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the Australian Navy, I skipped over to Bremen in Germany caught the Australian Navy, I skipped over to Bremen in Germany caught

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a ship to Canada and I worked in Canada for a ship to Canada and I worked in Canada for

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a short time until the 19 late '56 early '57 depression and that caused me a short time until the 19 late '56 early '57 depression and that caused me

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to join the Canadian Navy. So I'm getting adventure plus and I'm still to join the Canadian Navy. So I'm getting adventure plus and I'm still

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22, 23. After 22, 23. After

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about 3 years away from home I decided it was time to go back and check in on about 3 years away from home I decided it was time to go back and check in on

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the folks because I was only going to be away for 12 months. I returned to Australia in the folks because I was only going to be away for 12 months. I returned to Australia in

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1958 and I commenced working at 1958 and I commenced working at

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a company, um, an engineering company. Called ?Citizens? Industries and a company, um, an engineering company. Called ?Citizens? Industries and

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at that particular company I met at that particular company I met

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a guy called Ian Adams and this Ian Adams had been an officer in charge a guy called Ian Adams and this Ian Adams had been an officer in charge

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in Antartica, Mawson, in 1958. And one day I had cause to mention to him in Antartica, Mawson, in 1958. And one day I had cause to mention to him

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"I think I'll go back to Canada because there's adventure over there". And he said "I think I'll go back to Canada because there's adventure over there". And he said

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"Well if you've not been to Antartica you're missing out on quite "Well if you've not been to Antartica you're missing out on quite

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a lot. There's adventure down there". Just reiterate, um, Ian Adams had a lot. There's adventure down there". Just reiterate, um, Ian Adams had

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been the OIC at Macquarie in '56. OIC been the OIC at Macquarie in '56. OIC

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at Mawson in '58. And he gave me a phone number to ring and I rang this number at Mawson in '58. And he gave me a phone number to ring and I rang this number

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a voice answered, "Law here," and it turned out to be Phillip Law on the other end of a voice answered, "Law here," and it turned out to be Phillip Law on the other end of

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the phone and I told him who I was, who had suggested I ring him and he said "You'd the phone and I told him who I was, who had suggested I ring him and he said "You'd

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better come in for an interview," because all I said I wondered if there's any jobs better come in for an interview," because all I said I wondered if there's any jobs

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in Antarctica. Duly went in for an interview and there seemed in Antarctica. Duly went in for an interview and there seemed

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to be some interest in me from the divisions point of view cause they sent me to be some interest in me from the divisions point of view cause they sent me

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for a psychoanalytical examination. I eventually, obviously, passed that for a psychoanalytical examination. I eventually, obviously, passed that

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because they sent me for because they sent me for

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a medical and they called me in, um, from my place of work to a medical and they called me in, um, from my place of work to

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suggest to me that yes there is suggest to me that yes there is

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a decided possibility of employment in Antarctica if I was interested. And I said a decided possibility of employment in Antarctica if I was interested. And I said

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yes I am. At this stage thinking could be dog handling it could be assistant yes I am. At this stage thinking could be dog handling it could be assistant

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mechanic it could be anything. Well, Doctor Law said to me, he said, "We've decided mechanic it could be anything. Well, Doctor Law said to me, he said, "We've decided

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that you would be the right candidate for leading the expedition, the Officer In that you would be the right candidate for leading the expedition, the Officer In

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Charge to Mawson," which shattered me Charge to Mawson," which shattered me

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a little bit from the point of view that I didn't believe that that was on in my a little bit from the point of view that I didn't believe that that was on in my

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case book but he said. And I remember this very clearly he said "All of us have some case book but he said. And I remember this very clearly he said "All of us have some

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latent ability, all we need is somebody to extract it". And obviously that was the latent ability, all we need is somebody to extract it". And obviously that was the

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psychoanalytical examination that determined that I had what it would take to psychoanalytical examination that determined that I had what it would take to

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be, um, a leader be, um, a leader

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of the expedition insofar as it's mana- management. And also there was this of the expedition insofar as it's mana- management. And also there was this

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adventurous streak in me that would make adventurous streak in me that would make

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a good use of that in the exploration work that they had in mind. So in October of a good use of that in the exploration work that they had in mind. So in October of

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'62 I all of a sudden had '62 I all of a sudden had

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a job in Antarctica for 12 months. To return to the my place of employment to break a job in Antarctica for 12 months. To return to the my place of employment to break

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the news to the general manager who wished me all the best and said it would be the the news to the general manager who wished me all the best and said it would be the

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best thing to happen for my career to take on this opportunity. So in best thing to happen for my career to take on this opportunity. So in

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a nutshell with that's how I came to be in Antarctica. It was a nutshell with that's how I came to be in Antarctica. It was

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a recommendation from one of Phil Law's co-authors of the great book the a recommendation from one of Phil Law's co-authors of the great book the

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Antarctic Outposts, which was Antarctic Outposts, which was

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Ian Adams and he obviously saw something in me that or otherwise he wouldn't have recommended Ian Adams and he obviously saw something in me that or otherwise he wouldn't have recommended

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me and that's how it me and that's how it

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all started. [Ingrid] Did you need to do any particular pre-departure training? [Ray] Because it all started. [Ingrid] Did you need to do any particular pre-departure training? [Ray] Because it

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was now late October, early November. I was probably the last person to be was now late October, early November. I was probably the last person to be

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appointed to the to the to the appointed to the to the to the

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ex-, that particular expedition. Now this is only anecdotal, I do believe they had ex-, that particular expedition. Now this is only anecdotal, I do believe they had

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had interviewed other people and these people after had interviewed other people and these people after

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a period of time turned out to be not suitable and that's why they sent me to Colonel, Lieutenant a period of time turned out to be not suitable and that's why they sent me to Colonel, Lieutenant

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Colonel George ?Howenzer? to make sure this is the last straw we've got to make Colonel George ?Howenzer? to make sure this is the last straw we've got to make

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sure this guy is right. So the time that I had before le- going to Antarctica sure this guy is right. So the time that I had before le- going to Antarctica

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was probably less tha- less than 3 months and in that time there was was probably less tha- less than 3 months and in that time there was

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a lot of reading to do. Um, of past OIC's log books a lot of reading to do. Um, of past OIC's log books

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and also was the getting to know the rest of the team. We had, uh, a weekend, um, up on and also was the getting to know the rest of the team. We had, uh, a weekend, um, up on

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Mount Sterling's, sleeping in tents and walking across little patches of snow but Mount Sterling's, sleeping in tents and walking across little patches of snow but

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I think it was just I think it was just

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a bonding exercise, really, nothing, anything like they have today. But a bonding exercise, really, nothing, anything like they have today. But

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a bonding exercise at least we got to know, I got to know all the others that a bonding exercise at least we got to know, I got to know all the others that

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were in the team. It was were in the team. It was

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a young team. If I could remember the average age would've probably been a young team. If I could remember the average age would've probably been

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20, 26. I was 28. There was 20, 26. I was 28. There was

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a lot of them, much younger obviously, and a small handful of people in their a lot of them, much younger obviously, and a small handful of people in their

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30s. 3 of them had been to Antarctica before so I was able to tap into their 30s. 3 of them had been to Antarctica before so I was able to tap into their

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knowledge and it has been asked to me before, did I feel, um, this knowledge and it has been asked to me before, did I feel, um, this

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was something that could be beyond my reach, or? No I was absolutely confident I was something that could be beyond my reach, or? No I was absolutely confident I

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was confident that if they'd chosen me to do this job, this thing called the latent was confident that if they'd chosen me to do this job, this thing called the latent

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ability will kick in when it's necessary. Why is this, why was I this ability will kick in when it's necessary. Why is this, why was I this

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mature in my thinking? I think it was simply because I spent 3 years away from mature in my thinking? I think it was simply because I spent 3 years away from

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Australia when I was Australia when I was

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a young person looking after myself being in the Canadian Navy. Um, touring around a young person looking after myself being in the Canadian Navy. Um, touring around

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Europe and being very independent. So that's the type of training I had and I- Europe and being very independent. So that's the type of training I had and I-

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know I do remember one incidence at 187 Collins Street where I was studying all know I do remember one incidence at 187 Collins Street where I was studying all

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these, um, reports from previous years and a head appeared around the corner these, um, reports from previous years and a head appeared around the corner

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of this, um, room and I was sitting him he said, the boy said, "Are you McMahon?" and I of this, um, room and I was sitting him he said, the boy said, "Are you McMahon?" and I

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said: "Yes." And this voice said to me: "Well you'll be bloody...'' Um, not- not the quite word. "You'll said: "Yes." And this voice said to me: "Well you'll be bloody...'' Um, not- not the quite word. "You'll

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be..." um- um- "You'll be bloody sorry." That's- that- that's what he said and he disappeared. be..." um- um- "You'll be bloody sorry." That's- that- that's what he said and he disappeared.

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And I went chasing this- this person, to find out that it was And I went chasing this- this person, to find out that it was

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a guy called Mills Leed and Mills Leed was an icon of the early days in a guy called Mills Leed and Mills Leed was an icon of the early days in

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Antarctica and what he was saying to me is that don't take the, um, position of OIC Antarctica and what he was saying to me is that don't take the, um, position of OIC

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of 26 men lightly... it's going to require of 26 men lightly... it's going to require

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a lot of hard work and it just came across that I think he- I thought he was joking a lot of hard work and it just came across that I think he- I thought he was joking

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with me but he's quite serious. They're the talk of introductions I had to with me but he's quite serious. They're the talk of introductions I had to

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Antarctica because simply within 3 months of me having spoken with Phil Law for the first Antarctica because simply within 3 months of me having spoken with Phil Law for the first

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time I was on time I was on

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a ship going South. I had now turned 29 so I left to Australia on my- just after a ship going South. I had now turned 29 so I left to Australia on my- just after

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my 29th birthday. [Ingrid] So you mentioned you'd had a psychological assessment to establish suitability, my 29th birthday. [Ingrid] So you mentioned you'd had a psychological assessment to establish suitability,

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Was that something that was done with all the participants in Antarctic expeditions? Was that something that was done with all the participants in Antarctic expeditions?

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I believe it was, um, I believe it was, um,

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a select few. Um, I don't believe any of the physicists went under that examination. I a select few. Um, I don't believe any of the physicists went under that examination. I

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believe it was probably the radio operators and, um, I hope the cook believe it was probably the radio operators and, um, I hope the cook

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and the doctor went through that process. But it was an interesting process because the and the doctor went through that process. But it was an interesting process because the

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questions that were asked, were quite strange and in fact I objected to questions that were asked, were quite strange and in fact I objected to

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a lot of the questions they asked me in the first 4 hours of this interview because I a lot of the questions they asked me in the first 4 hours of this interview because I

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couldn't work out why he wanted to know 'who I loved the most, my mother or my father?' couldn't work out why he wanted to know 'who I loved the most, my mother or my father?'

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Or when did I... did I ever have any sexual tendencies towards my sister or- this Or when did I... did I ever have any sexual tendencies towards my sister or- this

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this guy has lost the plot - but eventually you got talking to him and he found out this guy has lost the plot - but eventually you got talking to him and he found out

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exactly who you were and I learned exactly who you were and I learned

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a lot about myself because he had the opportunity to delve into your mind and a lot about myself because he had the opportunity to delve into your mind and

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retrieve the information that you'd put in the back of your brain. For instance he retrieve the information that you'd put in the back of your brain. For instance he

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took me back year by took me back year by

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year, through my teenage and my youth as far as year, through my teenage and my youth as far as

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a preschool child, looking at the different things I used to do and what interested me a preschool child, looking at the different things I used to do and what interested me

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in all these sort of things. And you... we would fill out, in all these sort of things. And you... we would fill out,

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a- a large A3 sheet of paper and we'd tick a- a large A3 sheet of paper and we'd tick

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a box, which was the most appropriate answer. Normally they were yes or no, or black a box, which was the most appropriate answer. Normally they were yes or no, or black

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and white-there's no alternative and then at the end of the examination he had and white-there's no alternative and then at the end of the examination he had

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a plastic oversheet with little square cut outs in it and he found the one that best a plastic oversheet with little square cut outs in it and he found the one that best

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suited the visible ticks in this, um, to determine what your psychological profile was. suited the visible ticks in this, um, to determine what your psychological profile was.

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It was being experimented on the N.R.E people. From the It was being experimented on the N.R.E people. From the

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use of selecting officers for the Korean War and the Vietnam War. And so use of selecting officers for the Korean War and the Vietnam War. And so

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they were trialing it on officers or call it ah OICs and the like for Antartica they were trialing it on officers or call it ah OICs and the like for Antartica

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Whether or not, um, Phil Law took any notice of it we'll never know or Whether or not, um, Phil Law took any notice of it we'll never know or

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I'll never know, simply because - prior to me the selection process was: If Phil Law I'll never know, simply because - prior to me the selection process was: If Phil Law

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liked what he saw - and some of these cohorts like Eric Macklin or Frank liked what he saw - and some of these cohorts like Eric Macklin or Frank

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Smith or George Smith from the stores - if they said: "This guy's OK" well that was Smith or George Smith from the stores - if they said: "This guy's OK" well that was

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the selection process. And I think this one with the psychologist was just taking it the selection process. And I think this one with the psychologist was just taking it

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to the next step. [Ingrid]Had they introduced that because they had difficulties to the next step. [Ingrid]Had they introduced that because they had difficulties

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to your knowledge? [Ray] I don't know. I think it was just to your knowledge? [Ray] I don't know. I think it was just

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a, er, transitional step from what the early stages of the expedition was; making a, er, transitional step from what the early stages of the expedition was; making

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it more professional-I think it would be the reason. [Ingrid] What was your parents' reaction to the it more professional-I think it would be the reason. [Ingrid] What was your parents' reaction to the

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knowledge that you're about to go down to Antarctica for a year. [Ray] Well I don't think it, um, knowledge that you're about to go down to Antarctica for a year. [Ray] Well I don't think it, um,

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There was great impact there because I'd already left There was great impact there because I'd already left

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Australia when I was 20 and I was away for 3 years. So to go to Antarctica, Australia when I was 20 and I was away for 3 years. So to go to Antarctica,

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I- I know they were immensely proud of me doing this; I can recall that I- I know they were immensely proud of me doing this; I can recall that

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very clearly that, uh, I don't think my father had any apprehensions. I would imagine very clearly that, uh, I don't think my father had any apprehensions. I would imagine

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my mother would have, because we're got it- we're talking of 1963 and it was only my mother would have, because we're got it- we're talking of 1963 and it was only

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within a decade of the 1st expedition and not within a decade of the 1st expedition and not

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a lot was known. The press...the public... didn't learn much about Antarctica and I a lot was known. The press...the public... didn't learn much about Antarctica and I

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don't think my parents knew much about it all. It wasn't only the parents that don't think my parents knew much about it all. It wasn't only the parents that

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didn't know much about it, but I had little knowledge of it. [Ingrid] So how did you didn't know much about it, but I had little knowledge of it. [Ingrid] So how did you

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decide what to pack, to take down. [ Ray] Oh that's decide what to pack, to take down. [ Ray] Oh that's

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a good question. The very, yeah. We knew that we were supplied with a good question. The very, yeah. We knew that we were supplied with

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working clothes from the stores. All we had to take down were what you would call working clothes from the stores. All we had to take down were what you would call

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recreational clothes for, you know, Satur- Saturday nights. And I know that I took down recreational clothes for, you know, Satur- Saturday nights. And I know that I took down

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a dinner suit for, um, mid-winters and that would have been suggested to me by probably Ian Adams a dinner suit for, um, mid-winters and that would have been suggested to me by probably Ian Adams

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that make...dress up, have a little bit of fun as well as that make...dress up, have a little bit of fun as well as

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a little bit of work so... And I remember also that, ah, somebody telling me that the a little bit of work so... And I remember also that, ah, somebody telling me that the

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only things the Antarctic Division do not supply and that is handkerchiefs. But when only things the Antarctic Division do not supply and that is handkerchiefs. But when

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I saw the style of underwear they provided I took my own underwear. [Ingrid] What sort of I saw the style of underwear they provided I took my own underwear. [Ingrid] What sort of

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style was it? [Ray] Naval boxers. Stuff issued to the Royal style was it? [Ray] Naval boxers. Stuff issued to the Royal

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-the Australia Navy. Most of the equipment was- in the stores, was either the Australian -the Australia Navy. Most of the equipment was- in the stores, was either the Australian

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Navy, the Australian Army, the Norwegian Army, the American Army - it was all disposable Navy, the Australian Army, the Norwegian Army, the American Army - it was all disposable

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-disposable stuff. Um, it was- I don't think it was -disposable stuff. Um, it was- I don't think it was

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a big issue, what we took down. I remember a big issue, what we took down. I remember

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maintaining some clothes that I wore on the way back which was maintaining some clothes that I wore on the way back which was

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uh, civilian. But we were issued with a uniform by the A.N.A.R.E. uh, civilian. But we were issued with a uniform by the A.N.A.R.E.

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It was a, um, it was a It was a, um, it was a

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a uniform that had four patch pockets on the uniform a uniform that had four patch pockets on the uniform

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jacket with leather buttons. The uniform was very much jacket with leather buttons. The uniform was very much

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a, um, a khaki green that, ah, I do believe it had some a, um, a khaki green that, ah, I do believe it had some

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background in so far as it was a large bolt of material that was left over from the background in so far as it was a large bolt of material that was left over from the

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Army - producing nurses clothing and things like that. It was a smart uniform and we had Army - producing nurses clothing and things like that. It was a smart uniform and we had

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a smart shirt and a tie, no monograms on the tie, but, um. I felt very a smart shirt and a tie, no monograms on the tie, but, um. I felt very

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comfortable wearing uniform because being ex-Navy, and it was good to all of the comfortable wearing uniform because being ex-Navy, and it was good to all of the

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the expeditioner's standing on the wharf with Lord Casey the expeditioner's standing on the wharf with Lord Casey

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And Philip Law and they all look uniform and it looked like And Philip Law and they all look uniform and it looked like

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a real professional expedition taking place. With regards a real professional expedition taking place. With regards

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to me other clothing, it was whatever you needed for the expeditions down there; Ventile suits to me other clothing, it was whatever you needed for the expeditions down there; Ventile suits

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and mukluks, and Jakers, gloves. [Ingrid] Can you tell me a little bit about the trip down and mukluks, and Jakers, gloves. [Ingrid] Can you tell me a little bit about the trip down

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South? [Ray] On the way down? Well we knew...we'd been told that the Nella Dan South? [Ray] On the way down? Well we knew...we'd been told that the Nella Dan

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would roll on a wet lawn. And indeed we left from North wharf in Melbourne would roll on a wet lawn. And indeed we left from North wharf in Melbourne

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and we had ahead of us a month at sea. As we headed out the Heads we set course and we had ahead of us a month at sea. As we headed out the Heads we set course

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firstly for Heard island, because we had on board some very interesting characters- firstly for Heard island, because we had on board some very interesting characters-

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these three gentlem- or six in the mini Expedition, three of them were going to climb these three gentlem- or six in the mini Expedition, three of them were going to climb

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Big Ben and three of them were going to maintain the station. The climbers were Graham Big Ben and three of them were going to maintain the station. The climbers were Graham

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Budd, John Stephenson and Max Downs. And those that Budd, John Stephenson and Max Downs. And those that

17:40

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were looking at the, um, base camp was Dr Allan ?Gilchrist and Nills Lead? and were looking at the, um, base camp was Dr Allan ?Gilchrist and Nills Lead? and

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it escapes me his...the other person's name. Which was interesting because we had it escapes me his...the other person's name. Which was interesting because we had

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these, ah, very skilful people on board the ship. Skilful in so far as they'd been these, ah, very skilful people on board the ship. Skilful in so far as they'd been

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to Antartica or they'd climbed to Antartica or they'd climbed

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a mountain or they'd done something adventurous and we're heading directly for Heard Island. a mountain or they'd done something adventurous and we're heading directly for Heard Island.

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Three days into the trip, one of my team, the electronic's engineer, Three days into the trip, one of my team, the electronic's engineer,

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was diagnosed with appendicitis and as such that the- was diagnosed with appendicitis and as such that the-

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even though we had doctors on board we headed back to Albany Western Australia. even though we had doctors on board we headed back to Albany Western Australia.

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To unload him, to get another young guy to fill his place To unload him, to get another young guy to fill his place

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a young chap called Bob White who was just 20 and he was flown to Albany and we then a young chap called Bob White who was just 20 and he was flown to Albany and we then

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continued our journey down to Antarctica. So it was, um, it was continued our journey down to Antarctica. So it was, um, it was

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a full 5 weeks on the way so I think due South-West, you know a full 5 weeks on the way so I think due South-West, you know

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a rolling ice ship in some pretty tremendous weather, which didn't affect a rolling ice ship in some pretty tremendous weather, which didn't affect

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me because I was... being me because I was... being

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an ex-yachty, it was...I was comfortable where I could remember days on end of the only an ex-yachty, it was...I was comfortable where I could remember days on end of the only

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person in the saloon. So it was a long trip. It taxed us person in the saloon. So it was a long trip. It taxed us

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a little bit because there's not a lot you can do onboard. You're full of all vim and vigour a little bit because there's not a lot you can do onboard. You're full of all vim and vigour

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wanting to get to Antarctica to get on with your activities, whatever discipline wanting to get to Antarctica to get on with your activities, whatever discipline

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you're employed for, but eventually we made it. [Ingrid] What was your first impression of Lawson Station? you're employed for, but eventually we made it. [Ingrid] What was your first impression of Lawson Station?

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[Ray] Me first impression was, how small it was, and the [Ray] Me first impression was, how small it was, and the

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little buildings all separated from each other just a, um, it looked like little buildings all separated from each other just a, um, it looked like

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a little bit like a little bit like

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a holiday camp in so far as that there's all these individual buildings. Did I have a holiday camp in so far as that there's all these individual buildings. Did I have

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an impression of what I thought I would see? No, I had no idea except that what an impression of what I thought I would see? No, I had no idea except that what

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I saw didn't give me the f- the feeling that this was I saw didn't give me the f- the feeling that this was

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a scientific research station of which so much activity was going to take place a scientific research station of which so much activity was going to take place

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particularly with upper atmosphere physics and the, and the um, physicists working there, and the particularly with upper atmosphere physics and the, and the um, physicists working there, and the

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knowledge that I had knowledge that I had

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a couple of large expeditions to, um, to get underway as well as field trips and it just a couple of large expeditions to, um, to get underway as well as field trips and it just

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mind boggling to think that all that could happen in this little space. That was my first mind boggling to think that all that could happen in this little space. That was my first

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impression. [Ingrid] Did you have impression. [Ingrid] Did you have

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a changeover period with previous crew? [Ray] Um, there was about a changeover period with previous crew? [Ray] Um, there was about

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five days when we worked with the previous crew five days when we worked with the previous crew

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unloading the ship and getting things into store and in the remaining five days unloading the ship and getting things into store and in the remaining five days

20:34

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of changeovers when the other team virtually cleared up their work place and of changeovers when the other team virtually cleared up their work place and

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went onboard the ship and we expanded into their, their void so that, ah, we went onboard the ship and we expanded into their, their void so that, ah, we

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gradually moved to the stage where, as the ship was ready to leave, we were sort gradually moved to the stage where, as the ship was ready to leave, we were sort

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of wishing it well, would it please go away quick and leave, leave us to our of wishing it well, would it please go away quick and leave, leave us to our

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station. That was very, very noticeable, um, that once we got station. That was very, very noticeable, um, that once we got

21:03

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there we had this 'position sort of thing' - this is our year let's get on with it. there we had this 'position sort of thing' - this is our year let's get on with it.

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There are There are

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a few funny things happen in that year because, um, prior to me going, leaving head office a few funny things happen in that year because, um, prior to me going, leaving head office

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one of the reports I had read was one of the reports I had read was

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about the vehicles down there, and amongst the vehicles on the register I saw one about the vehicles down there, and amongst the vehicles on the register I saw one

21:23

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motorbike, one Bedford truck and one Ferguson tractor, and I motorbike, one Bedford truck and one Ferguson tractor, and I

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reasoned that if these vehicles could operate successfully down there - 2 being reasoned that if these vehicles could operate successfully down there - 2 being

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water cooled engines, why would not a small water cooled engines, why would not a small

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air-cooled car be useful? Brash confidence, why I don't air-cooled car be useful? Brash confidence, why I don't

21:45

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know what it was...I just picked up the phone and rang the marketing department of know what it was...I just picked up the phone and rang the marketing department of

21:48

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Volkswagen and I said: "The name's McMahon. I'm going to the Antarctic shortly. Is Volkswagen and I said: "The name's McMahon. I'm going to the Antarctic shortly. Is

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there any chance of you giving me a Volkswagen?" Deathly silence on the phone. there any chance of you giving me a Volkswagen?" Deathly silence on the phone.

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"Excuse me is anybody there?" "Yes," the voice said, "You, you, we need to "Excuse me is anybody there?" "Yes," the voice said, "You, you, we need to

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meet immediately." The meeting revealed that meet immediately." The meeting revealed that

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the Volkswagen Head Office in Germany - Wolfsburg Germany - had sent the Volkswagen Head Office in Germany - Wolfsburg Germany - had sent

22:20

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a direction to the Volkswagen dealers around the world to market the Volkswagen a direction to the Volkswagen dealers around the world to market the Volkswagen

22:24

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in winter conditions, the Beetle. And as such, this would fit very well in winter conditions, the Beetle. And as such, this would fit very well

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with the marketing the Volkswagen in the winter conditions in Australia. And the young with the marketing the Volkswagen in the winter conditions in Australia. And the young

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cadets marketing guy had realised that he had the greatest coup of all times. cadets marketing guy had realised that he had the greatest coup of all times.

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They gave me a car, no strings attached. It was They gave me a car, no strings attached. It was

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a production model car with sufficient spares to survive any injuries that it might sustain a production model car with sufficient spares to survive any injuries that it might sustain

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over a year. They gave me a Hasselblad camera, they gave me a over a year. They gave me a Hasselblad camera, they gave me a

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a Bolex movie camera, they gave me thousands of feet of film, so that in that a Bolex movie camera, they gave me thousands of feet of film, so that in that

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short time the Nella Dan short time the Nella Dan

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was in Mawson, they would take photographs of it driving up onto the plateau, was in Mawson, they would take photographs of it driving up onto the plateau,

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driving around the station and use that for an advertising campaign in Australia. driving around the station and use that for an advertising campaign in Australia.

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Of which it did. And we had the use of that car throughout the year. Useful as Of which it did. And we had the use of that car throughout the year. Useful as

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a runa- a runabout...useful for Glaciologist...useful for people going on a runa- a runabout...useful for Glaciologist...useful for people going on

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shore 'jolly's' up in the Mount Henderson or into the Casey Range. And we brought it shore 'jolly's' up in the Mount Henderson or into the Casey Range. And we brought it

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back to Australia after 12 months, and um, with great glee and joy they sought, they back to Australia after 12 months, and um, with great glee and joy they sought, they

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will now market this product in Australian outback conditions. And they took it will now market this product in Australian outback conditions. And they took it

23:42

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on the Redex trial and that's the last I heard of that - my little Volkswagen: The Red Terror. But when I on the Redex trial and that's the last I heard of that - my little Volkswagen: The Red Terror. But when I

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brought that ashore, the 1962 party thought: "Well, what on earth's happening here?" brought that ashore, the 1962 party thought: "Well, what on earth's happening here?"

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We've got the ?airy We've got the ?airy

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leaf crew coming aboard and the O.I.C's brought his personal car." Anyway, that's- leaf crew coming aboard and the O.I.C's brought his personal car." Anyway, that's-

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that's one little story. Um. [Ingrid] Was the Volkswagen winterised in any fashion? [Ray] The Volkswagen- that's one little story. Um. [Ingrid] Was the Volkswagen winterised in any fashion? [Ray] The Volkswagen-

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was... the only change they made to it was they put an extra 12-Volt battery in was... the only change they made to it was they put an extra 12-Volt battery in

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to assist the starting. They put to assist the starting. They put

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a, um, ammeter and an oil gauge on the dashboard, and they put a, um, ammeter and an oil gauge on the dashboard, and they put

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a cover over the air intake. Other than that it was a cover over the air intake. Other than that it was

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a 100 percent production model I'd chosen off the line and they had painted a 100 percent production model I'd chosen off the line and they had painted

24:29

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a bright red colour which was suitable, I thought, for Antarctica. [Ingrid] So you chose a bright red colour which was suitable, I thought, for Antarctica. [Ingrid] So you chose

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the colour. [Ray] I chose the colour. Dulux Red. [Ingrid] Did they need to look at any special tires? Or? the colour. [Ray] I chose the colour. Dulux Red. [Ingrid] Did they need to look at any special tires? Or?

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[Ray] No. They were standard tires but we had- they gave us chains for each wheel-4 chains. [Ray] No. They were standard tires but we had- they gave us chains for each wheel-4 chains.

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We found that we didn't need chains on the front, the, um, the steering become too heavy We found that we didn't need chains on the front, the, um, the steering become too heavy

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so we just had chains on the back. It covered over 1500 miles in the year, running backwards and so we just had chains on the back. It covered over 1500 miles in the year, running backwards and

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forwards to Rumdoodle. And you can imagine, ah, the stunned looks on the forwards to Rumdoodle. And you can imagine, ah, the stunned looks on the

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faces of the group of Russians as they climbed out of their Aleutians up at Rumdoodle faces of the group of Russians as they climbed out of their Aleutians up at Rumdoodle

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to be greeted by the station leader at Mawson picking them up in a car to take them to be greeted by the station leader at Mawson picking them up in a car to take them

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back to the station. It'd become quite a, um, quite a, um, back to the station. It'd become quite a, um, quite a, um,

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a focal point of our year down there, the little Red Terror. That's just an aside isn't it? [Ingrid] [laughs] It's a good a focal point of our year down there, the little Red Terror. That's just an aside isn't it? [Ingrid] [laughs] It's a good

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aside. [laughs]. So was Phil Law, or any of the Antarctic Division aside. [laughs]. So was Phil Law, or any of the Antarctic Division

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hierarchy aware of your plans to approach Volkswagen or the negotiations for hierarchy aware of your plans to approach Volkswagen or the negotiations for

25:36

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loading of the car? [Ray] When I had the idea, I approached...I remember it was Frank loading of the car? [Ray] When I had the idea, I approached...I remember it was Frank

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Smith the engineering officer and, uh, amongst all the expletives there seemed to be Smith the engineering officer and, uh, amongst all the expletives there seemed to be

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a positive reply. He had reservations because here I am talking a positive reply. He had reservations because here I am talking

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about taking a car onboard about taking a car onboard

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a ship that had already probably been loaded - or to be loaded, with all the 400 tons of a ship that had already probably been loaded - or to be loaded, with all the 400 tons of

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equipment we did take down. And he thought that may have been a no-no but, um, I then equipment we did take down. And he thought that may have been a no-no but, um, I then

26:09

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spoke with Phil Law and he looked very keenly at what sort of, um, payback spoke with Phil Law and he looked very keenly at what sort of, um, payback

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or how could he ride on the fact that we're taking a car down to the or how could he ride on the fact that we're taking a car down to the

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Antarctic and it would possibly give the A.N.A.R.E Antarctic and it would possibly give the A.N.A.R.E

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a little bit of, uh, publicity and a little bit of, uh, publicity and

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a different direction. And he a- he agreed to it. There was no, he- there was no conditions a different direction. And he a- he agreed to it. There was no, he- there was no conditions

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put on it by Phil, there was- he even got permission for it from the Department of External Affairs. put on it by Phil, there was- he even got permission for it from the Department of External Affairs.

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Every- everybody was happy for me to take this car down there. George Smith, OK- Every- everybody was happy for me to take this car down there. George Smith, OK-

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at the stores- at the stores-

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a different matter there, um, through another group of expletives he said: "How the - a different matter there, um, through another group of expletives he said: "How the -

26:51

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am I going to get a car onboard an already loaded ship with am I going to get a car onboard an already loaded ship with

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a replacement D4 Caterpillar tractor and a snow-track?" But, er, somehow we did. a replacement D4 Caterpillar tractor and a snow-track?" But, er, somehow we did.

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So to answer your question, there was no problem. Everybody was positive about it, So to answer your question, there was no problem. Everybody was positive about it,

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um, and I... indeed the- my- the group of men in the '63 relief team, um, and I... indeed the- my- the group of men in the '63 relief team,

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I didn't put any restrictions on the car, I didn't want to make it exclusively I didn't put any restrictions on the car, I didn't want to make it exclusively

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mine or exclusively the Glaciologist. In fact I just handed it across to the, um, mine or exclusively the Glaciologist. In fact I just handed it across to the, um,

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the, um, dieso's...the diesel mechanics to maintain it or look after it. the, um, dieso's...the diesel mechanics to maintain it or look after it.

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So it was, it was So it was, it was

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a station's vehicle. [Ingrid] Were there any other vehicles on station? [Ray] We had a station's vehicle. [Ingrid] Were there any other vehicles on station? [Ray] We had

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um, 3 D4 Caterpillar tractors - D4's being, um, um, 3 D4 Caterpillar tractors - D4's being, um,

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an early model tractor when I consider what we see down there now. But an early model tractor when I consider what we see down there now. But

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the only modification: They put on a 12 inch track plate instead of the only modification: They put on a 12 inch track plate instead of

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a regular 9 inch, which gives it less pressure on the snow. a regular 9 inch, which gives it less pressure on the snow.

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And 2 new Porsche engine snow-tracks. They were the And 2 new Porsche engine snow-tracks. They were the

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vehicles we took down. They R.T.A'd 1 of the D4 tractors. Sorry I vehicles we took down. They R.T.A'd 1 of the D4 tractors. Sorry I

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made made

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a mistake. We took 2 D4 tractors down, R.T.A'd 1 of them and we had 3 at a mistake. We took 2 D4 tractors down, R.T.A'd 1 of them and we had 3 at

28:19

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the station. The very first field trip with the snow-tracks was, um, to the station. The very first field trip with the snow-tracks was, um, to

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go across the sea ice up to Taylor go across the sea ice up to Taylor

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Glacery- Glaci- Glacier. Erm, within hours of me send- waving these Glacery- Glaci- Glacier. Erm, within hours of me send- waving these

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guys off, 1 returning to say that the first 1 driven into guys off, 1 returning to say that the first 1 driven into

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a lead and it was gurgled to the bottom of the ocean with enough time for these guys a lead and it was gurgled to the bottom of the ocean with enough time for these guys

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to get out the top hatch. And so this was to get out the top hatch. And so this was

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a sec- first time I used to Volkswagen to, um, a reasonable use as to scout across a sec- first time I used to Volkswagen to, um, a reasonable use as to scout across

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the sea ice to see if there was anything there left of this Volkswagen that the sea ice to see if there was anything there left of this Volkswagen that

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they said had gone in. Nothing, the lead had closed up and I had the unenviable task of they said had gone in. Nothing, the lead had closed up and I had the unenviable task of

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going back to the radio office composing going back to the radio office composing

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a coded message back to Head Office to say um, due to this following circumstances a coded message back to Head Office to say um, due to this following circumstances

29:18

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the Vol- the the new snow track is um, now in several fathoms of water. It was the Vol- the the new snow track is um, now in several fathoms of water. It was

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a legitimate problem that existed, they had checked a legitimate problem that existed, they had checked

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the, ah, the ah, the ice around where they were driving. They had probed it. They the, ah, the ah, the ice around where they were driving. They had probed it. They

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felt that there was no problem at all and they just...the problem existed and the lead felt that there was no problem at all and they just...the problem existed and the lead

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obviously had opened up and it was new ice and I just didn't- So that was obviously had opened up and it was new ice and I just didn't- So that was

29:49

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a bit of bad luck...I, um...it did affect us to the point of view that I needed a bit of bad luck...I, um...it did affect us to the point of view that I needed

29:54

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the vessel, vehicle for the Autumn trip, depo run. So the mechanics got together and they the vessel, vehicle for the Autumn trip, depo run. So the mechanics got together and they

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refurbished - restored an old Weasel. These are not the greatest refurbished - restored an old Weasel. These are not the greatest

30:08

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things to travel across the Antarctic plateau on because they tend to throw tracks things to travel across the Antarctic plateau on because they tend to throw tracks

30:12

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regularly but they perform miracles and I got my team of...um, my stable of regularly but they perform miracles and I got my team of...um, my stable of

30:19

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snow transport ready for the Autumn trip. Now: Autumn trip. Here in A.N.A.R.I it snow transport ready for the Autumn trip. Now: Autumn trip. Here in A.N.A.R.I it

30:25

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seemed that all I'd been doing since I got to Antarctica was drafting up rosters, seemed that all I'd been doing since I got to Antarctica was drafting up rosters,

30:32

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learning what was happening in the radio office, learning what each of the, uh, learning what was happening in the radio office, learning what each of the, uh,

30:37

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weather- weather observers did and the cosmic ray guys did. And, um, at the same time I'm now weather- weather observers did and the cosmic ray guys did. And, um, at the same time I'm now

30:43

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reading through the: "How to set up an expedition with Caterpillar tractors," and reading through the: "How to set up an expedition with Caterpillar tractors," and

30:47

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take it- take supplies as far as we could to the east to drop off, um, equipment for take it- take supplies as far as we could to the east to drop off, um, equipment for

30:54

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their Spring trip which would take place in October. These things happened with their Spring trip which would take place in October. These things happened with

30:60

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them and I think it's probably due to the knowledge that I had of planning them and I think it's probably due to the knowledge that I had of planning

31:04

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activities and in a managerial sense that it didn't provide activities and in a managerial sense that it didn't provide

31:09

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a problem at all. [Ingrid] Getting back to the D4's and the Weasels, did they have names? a problem at all. [Ingrid] Getting back to the D4's and the Weasels, did they have names?

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[Ray] Yes. The three D4s [Ray] Yes. The three D4s

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Caterpillar tractors were called Clapper, ?Babble-archie? Caterpillar tractors were called Clapper, ?Babble-archie?

31:30

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and the Orange Bastard. Because Clapper and ?Babble and the Orange Bastard. Because Clapper and ?Babble

31:33

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Archie? were red and they'd sent down this new tractor which they'd painted Archie? were red and they'd sent down this new tractor which they'd painted

31:39

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Antarctic orange and I just copped the Orange Bastard as its name. I don't think we Antarctic orange and I just copped the Orange Bastard as its name. I don't think we

31:43

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had names for the Weasel. No, I'd have to, scratch- [Ingrid] And the snow tracks? had names for the Weasel. No, I'd have to, scratch- [Ingrid] And the snow tracks?

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No I don't th- all I ever remember... we had the name A.N.A.R.E painted on them. I don't No I don't th- all I ever remember... we had the name A.N.A.R.E painted on them. I don't

31:58

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think... I can't remember if we gave them names. The diesos certainly would have. They would think... I can't remember if we gave them names. The diesos certainly would have. They would

32:03

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have given them names. Whether or not they'd painted them on them is a- have given them names. Whether or not they'd painted them on them is a-

32:11

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[Ingrid] Was there any other artwork painted on the machinery at all? [Ray] No, we had Australian flags [Ingrid] Was there any other artwork painted on the machinery at all? [Ray] No, we had Australian flags

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painted on the doors of the, um, snow tracks. We carried whip aerials that we painted on the doors of the, um, snow tracks. We carried whip aerials that we

32:21

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carried the Australian flag. There is the current logo with the A.N.A.R.E carried the Australian flag. There is the current logo with the A.N.A.R.E

32:28

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Club - it's the leopard seal with the, um, uh, the words A.N.A.R.E underneath it and that- that must Club - it's the leopard seal with the, um, uh, the words A.N.A.R.E underneath it and that- that must

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have came about after '63. I know Phil Law designed it because the have came about after '63. I know Phil Law designed it because the

32:41

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the A.N.A.R.E logo - the official A.N.A.R.E logo - was designed by the A.N.A.R.E logo - the official A.N.A.R.E logo - was designed by

32:46

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Nel Law-his wife. But it was very complicated in trying to reproduce all the Nel Law-his wife. But it was very complicated in trying to reproduce all the

32:52

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figures around the edges of the- the logo, so Phil designed figures around the edges of the- the logo, so Phil designed

32:56

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a simple one. It was very descriptive A.N.A.R.E particularly being a leopard seal. And the a simple one. It was very descriptive A.N.A.R.E particularly being a leopard seal. And the

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boomerang containing the words A.N.A.R.E, but we didn't have that logo in the '63 so boomerang containing the words A.N.A.R.E, but we didn't have that logo in the '63 so

33:09

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it was either the official logo as it was either the official logo as

33:12

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a transfer - which was the Nel Law's design, or the word A.N.A.R.E. Letters a transfer - which was the Nel Law's design, or the word A.N.A.R.E. Letters

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A.N.A.R.E. [Ingrid] You mentioned some of your duties A.N.A.R.E. [Ingrid] You mentioned some of your duties

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were really learning the ropes of other people's jobs, as well as organisational skills. What were really learning the ropes of other people's jobs, as well as organisational skills. What

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else did your work involve back then? [Ray] I think was coordinating, else did your work involve back then? [Ray] I think was coordinating,

33:33

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the activities of people who were very precious of their job. the activities of people who were very precious of their job.

33:40

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For instance, um, the radio operators: They were very precious and I don't disagree with For instance, um, the radio operators: They were very precious and I don't disagree with

33:45

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them, it was very difficult to move them out of their area to do area- them, it was very difficult to move them out of their area to do area-

33:49

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jobs like the weeks slushy, or a fire protection officer or some other jobs like the weeks slushy, or a fire protection officer or some other

33:56

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extrane- extr- extra duty. But eventually they came around and the weather extrane- extr- extra duty. But eventually they came around and the weather

34:02

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observers were the same, and the dieso's were the same, but to get observers were the same, and the dieso's were the same, but to get

34:07

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a physicist to move a physicist to move

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out of his area of comfort to do something else was very difficult. out of his area of comfort to do something else was very difficult.

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I recall an incident where we were...it was during change- or just after I recall an incident where we were...it was during change- or just after

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change over time and we're still building one of the Aurora huts and I had change over time and we're still building one of the Aurora huts and I had

34:24

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a particular complaint from a particular complaint from

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the carpenter who felt that the bloody scientists weren't contributing towards the carpenter who felt that the bloody scientists weren't contributing towards

34:33

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any physical activity of building something. And I said: "Why is that Jock?" He said: "Well any physical activity of building something. And I said: "Why is that Jock?" He said: "Well

34:37

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you're never here. All they do, they're looking at dials and pen recorders and you never hear you're never here. All they do, they're looking at dials and pen recorders and you never hear

34:42

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them hitting with them hitting with

34:43

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a hammer." So I decided that, um, maybe it's best for Jock Davidson the carpenter a hammer." So I decided that, um, maybe it's best for Jock Davidson the carpenter

34:50

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to find out what these guys are doing looking at pen recorders and so forth. So I to find out what these guys are doing looking at pen recorders and so forth. So I

34:55

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gave him the job of helping the, um, magnetician change charts and the Aurora people gave him the job of helping the, um, magnetician change charts and the Aurora people

35:02

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change ink recorders and all of change ink recorders and all of

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a sudden he came around as to being: He realised now that you didn't have to make a noise with a sudden he came around as to being: He realised now that you didn't have to make a noise with

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a hammer to be successfully doing some job. [Ingrid] And so how did you convince, um, a hammer to be successfully doing some job. [Ingrid] And so how did you convince, um,

35:16

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the radio operators and the the radio operators and the

35:17

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diesel mechanics and everyone else to come and do slushy duties and other community diesel mechanics and everyone else to come and do slushy duties and other community

35:24

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[Ray] I guess. I guess it was [Ray] I guess. I guess it was

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a little bit of... not pleading with these people but saying: "Look this is par- you're all a little bit of... not pleading with these people but saying: "Look this is par- you're all

35:33

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part of a team, these jobs have to be done. We don't have the ability of part of a team, these jobs have to be done. We don't have the ability of

35:40

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calling in a little bit of help from somewhere everybody has to do calling in a little bit of help from somewhere everybody has to do

35:43

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a little bit. And indeed if you would read your operations manual you would see in it a little bit. And indeed if you would read your operations manual you would see in it

35:48

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that everybody's expected to do a day of slushy." Things along that nature. We- I that everybody's expected to do a day of slushy." Things along that nature. We- I

35:53

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think it was just plain negotiation or mediation. To me it- that was no problem whatsoever. think it was just plain negotiation or mediation. To me it- that was no problem whatsoever.

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In fact I... when it was known that certain people were coming down south with me that had been In fact I... when it was known that certain people were coming down south with me that had been

36:06

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there before, I was told that they're going to be particularly problems because they had there before, I was told that they're going to be particularly problems because they had

36:11

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been set in their ways and they knew how to get around little incidences and been set in their ways and they knew how to get around little incidences and

36:16

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that turned out that I payed more attention to those people by seeking their assistance that turned out that I payed more attention to those people by seeking their assistance

36:22

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in setting up things and they felt important I guess because they were- because they were helping in setting up things and they felt important I guess because they were- because they were helping

36:27

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me. And so where people thought they were going to be problems, they were the least of the me. And so where people thought they were going to be problems, they were the least of the

36:32

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problems. [Ingrid] If you had had difficulties on station, who would you have gone to for problems. [Ingrid] If you had had difficulties on station, who would you have gone to for

36:39

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advice? [Ray] Well you certainly didn't go to Head Office because it meant writing advice? [Ray] Well you certainly didn't go to Head Office because it meant writing

36:43

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a coded message and having the radio operator send that-or then put it on teletype a coded message and having the radio operator send that-or then put it on teletype

36:49

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and then send it to Wilkes and from Wilkes they managed to somehow get and then send it to Wilkes and from Wilkes they managed to somehow get

36:54

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airspace with the airspace with the

36:55

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ionosphere in the right place to get the D.O.T.C. to send the message to Sydney ionosphere in the right place to get the D.O.T.C. to send the message to Sydney

36:59

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and eventually get down to Head Office. If you wanted anything done that was the and eventually get down to Head Office. If you wanted anything done that was the

37:03

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worst pathway you could go. Um, Olly always tended to be the mediator worst pathway you could go. Um, Olly always tended to be the mediator

37:10

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the, um, one-on-one person until it got to the the, um, one-on-one person until it got to the

37:17

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stage where there was stage where there was

37:18

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a bit of... somebody little bit unreasonable and then all I just call on the diesel a bit of... somebody little bit unreasonable and then all I just call on the diesel

37:22

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mechanics to sort it out. [Ingrid] Meaning? [Ray] A thump behind the ears mechanics to sort it out. [Ingrid] Meaning? [Ray] A thump behind the ears

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a lot better than trying to talk somebody into doing something.... if you know what a lot better than trying to talk somebody into doing something.... if you know what

37:31

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I mean. [Ingrid] Yeah. So as a year, how did you all get on? What were the group dynamics? I mean. [Ingrid] Yeah. So as a year, how did you all get on? What were the group dynamics?

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[Ray] Probably in the early part of the year when we were setting up the station with the [Ray] Probably in the early part of the year when we were setting up the station with the

37:42

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new equipment for the, uh, for the auroral physics and the ionospheric's there was new equipment for the, uh, for the auroral physics and the ionospheric's there was

37:47

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a lot of friction with these guys sleeping during the day because, um, they were a lot of friction with these guys sleeping during the day because, um, they were

37:54

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working at- during the night-time hours. There was working at- during the night-time hours. There was

37:57

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a certain amount of friction between those that had been there before, those three a certain amount of friction between those that had been there before, those three

38:02

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people and the ones just coming on. Look, I just think it was one family just people and the ones just coming on. Look, I just think it was one family just

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sorting each person out, just finding the right answer and eventually it sorting each person out, just finding the right answer and eventually it

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happened. If any friction occurs, to my knowledge, and I say that for this reason that happened. If any friction occurs, to my knowledge, and I say that for this reason that

38:19

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I was away from the station for the Autumn trip which was probably 8 weeks, and I was away from the station for the Autumn trip which was probably 8 weeks, and

38:25

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for the Spring trip which was 3 months so there's for the Spring trip which was 3 months so there's

38:28

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a period of time I was away where I know there was problems but I- I'd- they a period of time I was away where I know there was problems but I- I'd- they

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were resolved. No I would say that we, we had were resolved. No I would say that we, we had

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a very successful year because we all come back, well with the exception of the young a very successful year because we all come back, well with the exception of the young

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chap that died, we all came back and we remained socially friends. chap that died, we all came back and we remained socially friends.

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[Ingrid] So when you went away on your- those lengthy trips, did you appoint someone to be an acting officer? [Ingrid] So when you went away on your- those lengthy trips, did you appoint someone to be an acting officer?

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[Ray] Well it was [Ray] Well it was

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a normal, normal thing for the Antarctic division to appoint the deputy O.I.C. a normal, normal thing for the Antarctic division to appoint the deputy O.I.C.

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And it was And it was

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a normal thing for the deputy O.I.C. to be the doctor. And in a normal thing for the deputy O.I.C. to be the doctor. And in

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this particular year, I had determined that the elected deputy this particular year, I had determined that the elected deputy

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even before we left for Antarctica, was not going to be the right person for even before we left for Antarctica, was not going to be the right person for

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the job. But the problem here is existed when I made this the job. But the problem here is existed when I made this

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fact known to Head Office that: "Well you've got to have a doctor. Be satisfied with the one fact known to Head Office that: "Well you've got to have a doctor. Be satisfied with the one

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you got because they're hard to get." So I approached the situation by studying you got because they're hard to get." So I approached the situation by studying

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the doctor and his abilities to do certain managerial role in preparation to be taking the doctor and his abilities to do certain managerial role in preparation to be taking

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off on a- on the first Autumn trip and determined that this was not going to work so off on a- on the first Autumn trip and determined that this was not going to work so

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I appointed another person who I had I appointed another person who I had

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a lot of confidence in and, uh, I then informed Head Office that I'd a lot of confidence in and, uh, I then informed Head Office that I'd

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changed the deputy to one that I appointed. The one that appointed was very changed the deputy to one that I appointed. The one that appointed was very

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popular from the point of view he had no hang ups, no extra agenda's and he was one of popular from the point of view he had no hang ups, no extra agenda's and he was one of

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the boys, and I had no reply back from Head Office, so 'let's get on with it.' [Ingrid] So the boys, and I had no reply back from Head Office, so 'let's get on with it.' [Ingrid] So

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who did you appoint in the doctor's place? [Ray] The name of the person? Or the- Scruffy. who did you appoint in the doctor's place? [Ray] The name of the person? Or the- Scruffy.

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One of the diesel mechanics - not the senior diesel mechanic but, um, a person that I One of the diesel mechanics - not the senior diesel mechanic but, um, a person that I

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related to very well, years older than me but he had related to very well, years older than me but he had

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a very stable sort of a personality and he was liked and respected. a very stable sort of a personality and he was liked and respected.

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He was a very hard worker. [Ingrid] So Scruffy as in He was a very hard worker. [Ingrid] So Scruffy as in

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Ken Shennan [Ray] Ken Shennan. Scruffy Shennan. And as I said he, he was accepted as Ken Shennan [Ray] Ken Shennan. Scruffy Shennan. And as I said he, he was accepted as

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my choice for a deputy and indeed he took over, uh, that in my choice for a deputy and indeed he took over, uh, that in

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a very positive manner for that first Autumn trip I was away. [Ingrid] Was the doctor concerned a very positive manner for that first Autumn trip I was away. [Ingrid] Was the doctor concerned

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at all at not being the deputy? at all at not being the deputy?

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[Ray] I think it was [Ray] I think it was

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a great relief to him. I think that he had his own extra a great relief to him. I think that he had his own extra

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agenda and that was to do certain physiology programs and, uh, working on high fat diets and agenda and that was to do certain physiology programs and, uh, working on high fat diets and

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extra adrenaline in the body to see how the effects all this was going to make. And I extra adrenaline in the body to see how the effects all this was going to make. And I

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don't think, um, in the long run that... I think that he was greatly relieved because there was don't think, um, in the long run that... I think that he was greatly relieved because there was

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certainly no animosity at all. [Ingrid] So did you have any certainly no animosity at all. [Ingrid] So did you have any

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medical episodes during the year? [Ray] Medical episodes and issues, medical episodes during the year? [Ray] Medical episodes and issues,

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not many. Um, I guess the first one we had was not many. Um, I guess the first one we had was

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a broken ankle when a group had gone up on it- on a, um, a short a broken ankle when a group had gone up on it- on a, um, a short

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maybe two nights away. At Henderson, Mount Henderson. And uh, they'd embarked on maybe two nights away. At Henderson, Mount Henderson. And uh, they'd embarked on

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a little bit of a little bit of

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a recreational pursuit of skiing down the side of Hender- Henderson with the a recreational pursuit of skiing down the side of Hender- Henderson with the

42:16

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broken ankle - bones in the ankle - resulting. Which was the first time that the Volkswagen broken ankle - bones in the ankle - resulting. Which was the first time that the Volkswagen

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had been- would put on its sirens as an ambulance. And I drove up to...all the way had been- would put on its sirens as an ambulance. And I drove up to...all the way

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from the station across rocks at the back of the dog line, up to Henderson to from the station across rocks at the back of the dog line, up to Henderson to

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pick, um, John Vucovich up and bring him back to the station to get his pick, um, John Vucovich up and bring him back to the station to get his

42:38

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ankle put in plaster.Uh...the normal things you'd probably get anywhere; cuts and ankle put in plaster.Uh...the normal things you'd probably get anywhere; cuts and

42:45

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bruises and jammed fingers but, uh, from a point of view of an incident it would bruises and jammed fingers but, uh, from a point of view of an incident it would

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did occur in the um, October of the year just before we were ready to did occur in the um, October of the year just before we were ready to

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take off on the Spring trip. Um, the boys had been running the take off on the Spring trip. Um, the boys had been running the

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dogs, to give them dogs, to give them

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a bit of exercise. This is the people who were not going out on the Spring trip with a bit of exercise. This is the people who were not going out on the Spring trip with

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me. They were running the dogs and one of the, um, Bob White had slipped on the sea ice and hit his me. They were running the dogs and one of the, um, Bob White had slipped on the sea ice and hit his

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head. Reported to the doctor when he'd come back - the incident - and nothing head. Reported to the doctor when he'd come back - the incident - and nothing

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was- no action was taken apart from that uh, he said he hit his head. I was in the O.I.C'ery was- no action was taken apart from that uh, he said he hit his head. I was in the O.I.C'ery

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and I was called to the kitchen and to find out that the- the- Bob had fainted as far and I was called to the kitchen and to find out that the- the- Bob had fainted as far

43:36

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as the people in the kitchen were concerned. They took him to the surgery and as as the people in the kitchen were concerned. They took him to the surgery and as

43:42

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a result, there's a result, there's

43:45

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a lot of work done on with resuscitation, and, um, and he died. It a lot of work done on with resuscitation, and, um, and he died. It

43:52

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was was

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a very difficult time for me because two months prior to this in the August of the a very difficult time for me because two months prior to this in the August of the

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year on one of the field trips to Auster year on one of the field trips to Auster

44:01

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Rookery, it was decided by the doctor, the radio operator, Rookery, it was decided by the doctor, the radio operator,

44:08

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Bob Watson, and this young electronic engineer, Bob White, that they would man Bob Watson, and this young electronic engineer, Bob White, that they would man

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haul because there was another trip decided that they'd take the dogs into the- I think up to haul because there was another trip decided that they'd take the dogs into the- I think up to

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?Teclowa? no, not ?Teclowa? to Taylor. It was an adventure for them to man haul, um, ?Teclowa? no, not ?Teclowa? to Taylor. It was an adventure for them to man haul, um,

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and it was only as far as Auster and unfortunately on the way to Auster the weather and it was only as far as Auster and unfortunately on the way to Auster the weather

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deteriorated and um, they were deteriorated and um, they were

44:35

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blizzered-in. Not only were they blizzered-in, the- they'd- where they'd put their tent blizzered-in. Not only were they blizzered-in, the- they'd- where they'd put their tent

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the drift had, um, covered the tent and they had to force their way out of the tent. A the drift had, um, covered the tent and they had to force their way out of the tent. A

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little bit of frostbite occurred and the worst case was the doctor who had taken gloves little bit of frostbite occurred and the worst case was the doctor who had taken gloves

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off to dig out...his way out of the tent, and I ended up with the doctor with frostbitten off to dig out...his way out of the tent, and I ended up with the doctor with frostbitten

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fingers. Neither the other two suffered apart from maybe a bit of fingers. Neither the other two suffered apart from maybe a bit of

45:07

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hypothermia. And it now is the result of - with Bob dying two months after the event - hypothermia. And it now is the result of - with Bob dying two months after the event -

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I've got the doctor in I've got the doctor in

45:15

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a sterile environment which means he couldn't do much apart...physically he had to tell a sterile environment which means he couldn't do much apart...physically he had to tell

45:20

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us what to do. In communicating with the, um, Wilkes base-Dr Ken Hicks there and us what to do. In communicating with the, um, Wilkes base-Dr Ken Hicks there and

45:27

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we confirmed all the, uh, the signs and diagno- we confirmed all the, uh, the signs and diagno-

45:34

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not diagnosis but you know what, we figured we needed to tell him and, um, the doctors spoke not diagnosis but you know what, we figured we needed to tell him and, um, the doctors spoke

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together and it was determined that they couldn't pinpoint the actual reason together and it was determined that they couldn't pinpoint the actual reason

45:45

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for the, the death with the exception they felt it must have been through the hit on for the, the death with the exception they felt it must have been through the hit on

45:50

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the head, communicating back to Head Office it was determined that the head, communicating back to Head Office it was determined that

45:56

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a postmortem would be needed and then an inquiry. Uh, very difficult times in the station... a postmortem would be needed and then an inquiry. Uh, very difficult times in the station...

46:03

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for the youngest he was only 20 and he was the last replacement of the guy that for the youngest he was only 20 and he was the last replacement of the guy that

46:07

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had appendicitis - that I had to announce that, um, he had died. It was had appendicitis - that I had to announce that, um, he had died. It was

46:13

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a very somber time. A very sombre time for the people. There was a, I think there was a very somber time. A very sombre time for the people. There was a, I think there was

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a lot of them had never experienced anybody dying as close to them as a lot of them had never experienced anybody dying as close to them as

46:22

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Bob was. How I'd managed it was... I'm afraid Bob was. How I'd managed it was... I'm afraid

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to say it's just what I had to do. There was um, I had to take leadership in this to say it's just what I had to do. There was um, I had to take leadership in this

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manner and indeed, um, a lot of leadership was required to carry out manner and indeed, um, a lot of leadership was required to carry out

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the post-mortem simply because the doctor could not do it. He had to explain the post-mortem simply because the doctor could not do it. He had to explain

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to people what to do. [Ingrid] So he couldn't do it because of his hands. [Ray] He couldn't do it physically, yeah, he was.... So, um, it was to people what to do. [Ingrid] So he couldn't do it because of his hands. [Ray] He couldn't do it physically, yeah, he was.... So, um, it was

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done. It was done very successfully. Dr Ken Hicks from Wilkes were in contact with done. It was done very successfully. Dr Ken Hicks from Wilkes were in contact with

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him all the time and Des ?Lug? from Davis. Dr Des. And was determined it him all the time and Des ?Lug? from Davis. Dr Des. And was determined it

46:60

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was a subarachnoid haemorrhage and, um, it, one of those things, it wasn't evident. It was was a subarachnoid haemorrhage and, um, it, one of those things, it wasn't evident. It was

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a massive bleep. Then they pres-. So it was, um, quite a massive bleep. Then they pres-. So it was, um, quite

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a situation because we were all geared up to go on the October Spring expedition a situation because we were all geared up to go on the October Spring expedition

47:17

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and we had to delay things obviously for the inquiry and to get Head Office and we had to delay things obviously for the inquiry and to get Head Office

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approval to continue on and we went through the process of, um, building the approval to continue on and we went through the process of, um, building the

47:28

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coffin and having a ceremony taking the coffin from Biscoe Hut underneath a, on coffin and having a ceremony taking the coffin from Biscoe Hut underneath a, on

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a sled up to a sled up to

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a site where the engineers had blown some rock away. And we created the first cairn on a site where the engineers had blown some rock away. And we created the first cairn on

47:42

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Mawson, of this young guy. I think everybody got- got over it, got over it very Mawson, of this young guy. I think everybody got- got over it, got over it very

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quickly because it was a period of time when there was quickly because it was a period of time when there was

47:50

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a lot of activity. And, um, particularly us going away on the spring trip - a lot of activity. And, um, particularly us going away on the spring trip -

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going away for 3 months or more, um, that, to going away for 3 months or more, um, that, to

47:59

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a certain extent took priority in our minds and I think when it all boiled down there was a certain extent took priority in our minds and I think when it all boiled down there was

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nothing we could do about it, it was an incident that happened. And I say we got on nothing we could do about it, it was an incident that happened. And I say we got on

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with it. Uh, it was difficult, I guess, to the extension of this part of the with it. Uh, it was difficult, I guess, to the extension of this part of the

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discussion when we came back to discussion when we came back to

48:18

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Australia and we were the people that had to inform the relations of Bob White. It was done. Australia and we were the people that had to inform the relations of Bob White. It was done.

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And he's remembered by all the guys he worked with. That's all you And he's remembered by all the guys he worked with. That's all you

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can say about a death at the station. [Ingrid] So had any other members of the team had can say about a death at the station. [Ingrid] So had any other members of the team had

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training in either surgical skills or anaesthetics skills before you went down South? [Ray] Yeah, we had um, training in either surgical skills or anaesthetics skills before you went down South? [Ray] Yeah, we had um,

48:45

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we had 3 of us. I did a course as brief as... it's amazing how brief it was- we had 3 of us. I did a course as brief as... it's amazing how brief it was-

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as a- as a, um, an assistant in as a- as a, um, an assistant in

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a surgical situation. Presenting a surgical situation. Presenting

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sterilised water sterilised water

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?a club? bits and pieces but knowing, having the feeling that um, watching operation that ?a club? bits and pieces but knowing, having the feeling that um, watching operation that

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done at um, it was a procedure done at Royal Melbourne Hospital. It was done at um, it was a procedure done at Royal Melbourne Hospital. It was

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evident that I'd balk at the fact that blood does come from evident that I'd balk at the fact that blood does come from

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a cut. Another one... study um, studied to be a cut. Another one... study um, studied to be

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an anaesthetist under the doctor. So there's just the three of us. [Ingrid] And so when it was time an anaesthetist under the doctor. So there's just the three of us. [Ingrid] And so when it was time

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to do the post mortem, who actually did that? [Ray] Bob Watson was instrumental in to do the post mortem, who actually did that? [Ray] Bob Watson was instrumental in

49:35

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assisting there and I do believe the other one was Ian Black, the Magnetician, and assisting there and I do believe the other one was Ian Black, the Magnetician, and

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myself. [Ingrid] When- when you came back to Australia you mentioned that you needed to talk to the myself. [Ingrid] When- when you came back to Australia you mentioned that you needed to talk to the

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family. Did you as a group also receive any sort of debriefing family. Did you as a group also receive any sort of debriefing

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or counselling over the death of the fellow expedition member? [Ray] No. No. It's very interesting or counselling over the death of the fellow expedition member? [Ray] No. No. It's very interesting

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isn't it to compare those days to what there is now, and I know that people would be isn't it to compare those days to what there is now, and I know that people would be

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counselled for even stubbing their toe, with respect. But no there was counselled for even stubbing their toe, with respect. But no there was

50:09

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um, no, no specific debriefing whatsoever. Something happened, we dealt with it. um, no, no specific debriefing whatsoever. Something happened, we dealt with it.

50:16

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All over rover. [Ingrid] Well Ray we might take All over rover. [Ingrid] Well Ray we might take

50:19

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a break at this point and then come back to talk about the Spring and the Autumn a break at this point and then come back to talk about the Spring and the Autumn

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traverses. [Ray] Very Good traverses. [Ray] Very Good

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Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)