Amplify

Transcription Conventions		Examples
Language	English (Australian)	“Colour” not “Color”, “Organise” not “Organize”
Contractions	Transcribe as you hear them	“Shoulda”, “Didn’t”
Numbers	Transcribe as numerals	“11 West 40th Street”
Filled Pauses & Hesitations	Transcribe as you hear them	“ah”, “eh”, “um”
Noise	Transcribe in brackets; use descriptive language	“And then we [door slam]”, “So cold! [Brrrrr]”
Partial words	If someone stops speaking in the middle of a word, transcribe as much of the word as they say; follow it with a dash	“Tes- Testing”, “Absolu- Absolutely”
Hard-to-understand	For speech that is difficult or impossible to understand, use question marks before and after	“And she told me that ?I should just leave?”, “Her name was ?inaudible?”
Change of speaker	Sometimes multiple people will speak on the same line. Use square brackets to indicate change of speaker.	[John] Yes, it was a very interesting time. [Susan] And what have you learnt from it?

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0:02

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My name's Ingrid McGaughey and I'm with Ian Allison. Ian is a glaciologist and has made multiple My name's Ingrid McGaughey and I'm with Ian Allison. Ian is a glaciologist and has made multiple

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trips down to the Antarctic. Today's date is the 30th of August 2011 and the trips down to the Antarctic. Today's date is the 30th of August 2011 and the

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initial focus will be on Ian's trip to Enderby Land in 1976-'77 and '77-'78. initial focus will be on Ian's trip to Enderby Land in 1976-'77 and '77-'78.

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Hello Ian. [Ian] Hi Ingrid. [Ingrid] So tell me about the Enderby Land trips. [Ian] Ok, the Hello Ian. [Ian] Hi Ingrid. [Ingrid] So tell me about the Enderby Land trips. [Ian] Ok, the

0:26

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'76-'77 was the 2nd of '76-'77 was the 2nd of

0:31

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a series of Enderby Land ?notes? The Division had spent the previous 5 or 6 years a series of Enderby Land ?notes? The Division had spent the previous 5 or 6 years

0:36

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working in 1st the North Prince Charles Mountains, Amery Ice Shelf and then the South Prince working in 1st the North Prince Charles Mountains, Amery Ice Shelf and then the South Prince

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Charles Mountains, then they shifted the work to do with the Charles Mountains, then they shifted the work to do with the

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a geological survey glaciological work to-to Enderby Land to the West of ?Walson? a geological survey glaciological work to-to Enderby Land to the West of ?Walson?

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1st year uh they chose as a base a place called Knuckey Peaks, and that was 1st year uh they chose as a base a place called Knuckey Peaks, and that was

0:59

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a disaster all round in every way. The weather was terrible, it was unsuitable for a disaster all round in every way. The weather was terrible, it was unsuitable for

1:03

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flying, uh they destroyed one of the helicopters in the field, flying, uh they destroyed one of the helicopters in the field,

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it was still tied down when they tried to take off, uh, they lost the Pilatus Porter, it was still tied down when they tried to take off, uh, they lost the Pilatus Porter,

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a fixed wing aircraft in a fixed wing aircraft in

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a blizzard ?Mawson?, and they got effectively nothing done. To finish season off they a blizzard ?Mawson?, and they got effectively nothing done. To finish season off they

1:24

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started 2 helicopters up at the same time on the minuscule helideck on ?Melidan? and they started 2 helicopters up at the same time on the minuscule helideck on ?Melidan? and they

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beat each other to death. [pause] Uh so for the next year they took beat each other to death. [pause] Uh so for the next year they took

1:34

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a slightly different approach [laughs] and shifted the camp to a slightly different approach [laughs] and shifted the camp to

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a place called the Mount King near the centre of e- of Enderby Land near the summit of the a place called the Mount King near the centre of e- of Enderby Land near the summit of the

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it's not so much an ice cap but the-but the dome there, and we came in ah, from it's not so much an ice cap but the-but the dome there, and we came in ah, from

1:50

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King Edward Gulf on ?Malidan? and flew in into a base camp which had been set up by a King Edward Gulf on ?Malidan? and flew in into a base camp which had been set up by a

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traverse ov-that had come in overland from ?Mawson? Uh, my work during that season was radio echo sounding traverse ov-that had come in overland from ?Mawson? Uh, my work during that season was radio echo sounding

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echo sounding to map the ice thickness over as large an area as we could cover. echo sounding to map the ice thickness over as large an area as we could cover.

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Uh, worked with a guy called Ian Knight who was an electronic engineer, kept the radar Uh, worked with a guy called Ian Knight who was an electronic engineer, kept the radar

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going, and we didn't have g.p.s. going, and we didn't have g.p.s.

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navigation so we navigating by dead reckoning and I think all the ?drift sites? the navigation so we navigating by dead reckoning and I think all the ?drift sites? the

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the gyroscopic drift sites where you spend most of your time sitting on a the gyroscopic drift sites where you spend most of your time sitting on a

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ration box on top of the seat, peering down this telescope out the bottom of the ration box on top of the seat, peering down this telescope out the bottom of the

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aircraft, tracking features on the surface, dunes and ?inaudible? to work out the aircraft, tracking features on the surface, dunes and ?inaudible? to work out the

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direction and speed of the aircraft. And we covered quite direction and speed of the aircraft. And we covered quite

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a lot of miles, we mapped most of the area around the Enderby Land, Kemp Land itself, a lot of miles, we mapped most of the area around the Enderby Land, Kemp Land itself,

2:48

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quite a lot of flights between ?Mawson and Davis quite a lot of flights between ?Mawson and Davis

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a bit out towards Molodezhnaya and uh, Showa, the Japanese station. At the same a bit out towards Molodezhnaya and uh, Showa, the Japanese station. At the same

2:58

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time there was another group working on the traverse, I think that involved um Joe time there was another group working on the traverse, I think that involved um Joe

3:04

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?Decker? and Peter ?Kege? at that stage from memory, they may have been be next year Joe was ?Decker? and Peter ?Kege? at that stage from memory, they may have been be next year Joe was

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certainly there. Uh so it was certainly there. Uh so it was

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a pretty successful season all told, um, we'd work somewhat different hours than the rest of the a pretty successful season all told, um, we'd work somewhat different hours than the rest of the

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station uh, because we'd take the Pilatus Porter out once station uh, because we'd take the Pilatus Porter out once

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the ?catabatic? dropped and that was around about 12, 11 or 12 in the morning we got the ?catabatic? dropped and that was around about 12, 11 or 12 in the morning we got

3:28

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into a bit of trouble for missing the field leaders' ?met? briefings each morning but into a bit of trouble for missing the field leaders' ?met? briefings each morning but

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we wouldn't get back into camp until about midnight each time. I remember one we wouldn't get back into camp until about midnight each time. I remember one

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occasion where the pilot, and I forget his name, he was ex-army aviation, young guy, uh we occasion where the pilot, and I forget his name, he was ex-army aviation, young guy, uh we

3:44

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decided we'd creep back and surprise the camp who were all sound asleep by then by decided we'd creep back and surprise the camp who were all sound asleep by then by

3:49

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flying in at 5 meters above the terrain [laughs] [door slams] and then just coming back up over the hill flying in at 5 meters above the terrain [laughs] [door slams] and then just coming back up over the hill

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and suddenly being there, waking them all up. [pause] [footsteps] Uh, ?Irwin Erve? one and suddenly being there, waking them all up. [pause] [footsteps] Uh, ?Irwin Erve? one

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of the other memorable characters of the day was the doctor at that stage, he was our doctor of the other memorable characters of the day was the doctor at that stage, he was our doctor

4:07

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for-there for the summer [footsteps] and uh, Irwin for-there for the summer [footsteps] and uh, Irwin

4:14

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ah, was as reclusive as ever, he was able to live totally with himself, he spent most of ah, was as reclusive as ever, he was able to live totally with himself, he spent most of

4:21

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his time [footsteps] sitting in his Polar Pyramid tent reading books [laughs]. But a very, very good his time [footsteps] sitting in his Polar Pyramid tent reading books [laughs]. But a very, very good

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doctor, if you needed doctor, if you needed

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a doctor in an emergency he was the right guy but if you were a hypochondriac forget it. a doctor in an emergency he was the right guy but if you were a hypochondriac forget it.

4:34

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Yes, man of fo-few words. [laughs] [Ian] [laughs] Yeah. [Ingrid] So what were the living conditions in the Yes, man of fo-few words. [laughs] [Ian] [laughs] Yeah. [Ingrid] So what were the living conditions in the

4:41

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camp like? [Ian] uh, th-the camp was camp like? [Ian] uh, th-the camp was

4:46

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a series of what we'll call ?Park hole? huts, uh, Canadian, uh shape of a series of what we'll call ?Park hole? huts, uh, Canadian, uh shape of

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a Nissen hut but made of blanketed tenting material, uh the boxes they a Nissen hut but made of blanketed tenting material, uh the boxes they

4:60

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came in came in

5:00

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folded out [door slams] to make a plywood floor. Uh, aluminium frame, curved aluminium frame, folded out [door slams] to make a plywood floor. Uh, aluminium frame, curved aluminium frame,

5:08

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plywood ends with doors on either end, and blanket quilt so there was plywood ends with doors on either end, and blanket quilt so there was

5:12

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a mess like that. There was a, um, radio room that was a mess like that. There was a, um, radio room that was

5:18

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a smaller version, a smaller version,

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a couple of caravans and, [pause] where the pilots and co slept and then the majority a couple of caravans and, [pause] where the pilots and co slept and then the majority

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slept in polar pyramids, which were actually considerably warmer than sleeping in the caravans. slept in polar pyramids, which were actually considerably warmer than sleeping in the caravans.

5:33

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So, did they continue with ?parkole? huts in the future, or did they have advantages or disadvantages? So, did they continue with ?parkole? huts in the future, or did they have advantages or disadvantages?

5:41

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Really aft-after Enderby Land finished a few years down the track we had Really aft-after Enderby Land finished a few years down the track we had

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a couple more years there and I went back again '77-'78 but, uh, Division a couple more years there and I went back again '77-'78 but, uh, Division

5:52

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didn't run any major field programs like that for didn't run any major field programs like that for

5:54

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a few years and, the ?parkholes? either came back or a few years and, the ?parkholes? either came back or

5:58

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got left out on the field and they seemed to disappear from the site. There are still some - got left out on the field and they seemed to disappear from the site. There are still some -

6:02

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I was- when I was in, uh, [pause] Northern Prince Charles I was- when I was in, uh, [pause] Northern Prince Charles

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Mountains in about Mountains in about

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'88-'89 we went out to the old ?Ball? Pyramid base camp and there was some '88-'89 we went out to the old ?Ball? Pyramid base camp and there was some

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still some remnants of still some remnants of

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a ?parkhole? frame there. As well a-as well as some material on the rock a ?parkhole? frame there. As well a-as well as some material on the rock

6:23

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which one of the helicopter engineers said 'Aaah this looks like tobacco, its all stringy' and which one of the helicopter engineers said 'Aaah this looks like tobacco, its all stringy' and

6:29

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picked it up in his fingers and, looks like tobacco smells like! [laughs] and it was. picked it up in his fingers and, looks like tobacco smells like! [laughs] and it was.

6:38

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[laughing] Dehydrated. [Ingrid] Speaking of which, what were the, um, the ablutions arrangements? [laughing] Dehydrated. [Ingrid] Speaking of which, what were the, um, the ablutions arrangements?

6:49

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Well God, now you've got me. Um, [pause] I'm pretty sure we just had a hole in the ground. Well God, now you've got me. Um, [pause] I'm pretty sure we just had a hole in the ground.

6:57

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Later, I mean the, the Division's environmental standards have changed over the years, I remember when Later, I mean the, the Division's environmental standards have changed over the years, I remember when

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back in the ?PCN? back in the ?PCN?

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[Ingrid] That was in the 70s? [Ian] No, this was in the '90s, uh early '90s late '80s early [Ingrid] That was in the 70s? [Ian] No, this was in the '90s, uh early '90s late '80s early

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'90s, uh, we were using a-a flour drum with '90s, uh, we were using a-a flour drum with

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a plastic liner, and we'd store all the plastic liners but we didn't bring them back to a plastic liner, and we'd store all the plastic liners but we didn't bring them back to

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the camp, at the end of the season we'd pile them all in the helicopter, we'd go out and we'd the camp, at the end of the season we'd pile them all in the helicopter, we'd go out and we'd

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honey bomb them into honey bomb them into

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a big crevasse. Which in some ways, uh, it would take another a big crevasse. Which in some ways, uh, it would take another

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20,000 years to reach the coast by which stage it'd all be smeared out as a 20,000 years to reach the coast by which stage it'd all be smeared out as a

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molecular layer, whereas bringing it all back and having the station leader spend the next 3 molecular layer, whereas bringing it all back and having the station leader spend the next 3

7:45

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months shovelling stuff into the furnace in a biologically sensitive area months shovelling stuff into the furnace in a biologically sensitive area

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never seemed all that sensible, but [laughs], personal opinion. [Ingrid] And so the never seemed all that sensible, but [laughs], personal opinion. [Ingrid] And so the

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arrangements these days is to bring it back to the camp. [Ian]Yes. arrangements these days is to bring it back to the camp. [Ian]Yes.

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So at Enderby Land, other than your work as a glaciologist, did you have any other duties those So at Enderby Land, other than your work as a glaciologist, did you have any other duties those

8:10

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two summers? [Ian] The first year, just normal camp duties same as everyone else, and the second year I two summers? [Ian] The first year, just normal camp duties same as everyone else, and the second year I

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went back I was the Field Leader went back I was the Field Leader

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for the-for the program. And that was a slightly more interesting summer, we had some for the-for the program. And that was a slightly more interesting summer, we had some

8:25

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problems with the aircraft, we had 2 helicopters one beautiful morning but have the problems with the aircraft, we had 2 helicopters one beautiful morning but have the

8:31

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engines conk out and fall out the sky. Uh, and it was due to an incident the night before engines conk out and fall out the sky. Uh, and it was due to an incident the night before

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where they'd ingested snow. Uh which formed the water then an ice block in the fuel line. where they'd ingested snow. Uh which formed the water then an ice block in the fuel line.

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They were trundling along the ground because the weather had closed the flying in at the They were trundling along the ground because the weather had closed the flying in at the

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camp ?inaudible? clear patch, and the lead helicopter was fine but it kicked up this huge cloud of camp ?inaudible? clear patch, and the lead helicopter was fine but it kicked up this huge cloud of

8:53

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snow which the others ingested. Uh, that season we again came in through Enderby snow which the others ingested. Uh, that season we again came in through Enderby

9:00

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Land. Uh, our doctor that season was another Land. Uh, our doctor that season was another

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memorable doctor, Peter Gormley. [laughs] Uh, uh Peter memorable doctor, Peter Gormley. [laughs] Uh, uh Peter

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characteristics in some was ways similar to ?Irwin? in that he was characteristics in some was ways similar to ?Irwin? in that he was

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he was his own person. [laughs] he was his own person. [laughs]

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[Ingrid] A lot more gregarious though. [Ian] Yes. Eh, ?grumped a while?, I made him station leader of ?Ripong Depot? which was [Ingrid] A lot more gregarious though. [Ian] Yes. Eh, ?grumped a while?, I made him station leader of ?Ripong Depot? which was

9:28

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a staging post, he was there by himself for a staging post, he was there by himself for

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a few days, he was very happy [laughs]. Uh, that also ?staging? a few days, he was very happy [laughs]. Uh, that also ?staging?

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post just when we were flying in. What else can I remember about that trip? I can remember post just when we were flying in. What else can I remember about that trip? I can remember

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a New Year's Eve on the stroke of the new year we were standing out on the sea ice in King a New Year's Eve on the stroke of the new year we were standing out on the sea ice in King

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Edward Gulf holding up the wings of the Porter putting the [laughs] the bolt in that held Edward Gulf holding up the wings of the Porter putting the [laughs] the bolt in that held

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everything up in the sky. [Ingrid] A single bolt? [Ian] Yeah there's a big bolt goes in either side in each which wing everything up in the sky. [Ingrid] A single bolt? [Ian] Yeah there's a big bolt goes in either side in each which wing

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that basically holds the wings on the Pilatis Porter, it's that basically holds the wings on the Pilatis Porter, it's

10:01

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a big bolt [laughs]. Uh, but again, uh that was a big bolt [laughs]. Uh, but again, uh that was

10:06

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a reasonably successful summer I think, we had a reasonably successful summer I think, we had

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a lot of ?geos? in the field, um, people working on the glaciers. a lot of ?geos? in the field, um, people working on the glaciers.

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[Ingrid] When would those people come in from their little bases in the field? [Ian] A couple of times during the season, [Ingrid] When would those people come in from their little bases in the field? [Ian] A couple of times during the season,

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when they were shifting camp a fa-a fair way they'd stage through th-through the base. when they were shifting camp a fa-a fair way they'd stage through th-through the base.

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Some more often than others. [Ingrid] And then you would deposit them somewhere else in the ranges with Some more often than others. [Ingrid] And then you would deposit them somewhere else in the ranges with

10:33

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another food depot. [Ian] Yeah, yeah [Ingrid] and their and their gear [Ian] yeah just another food depot. [Ian] Yeah, yeah [Ingrid] and their and their gear [Ian] yeah just

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a few rat packs and stuff, yeah. [Ingrid] [clears throat] So really then there was one stable camp and a number of mobile camps sort of scattered through- [Ian] Yep yeah up to a few rat packs and stuff, yeah. [Ingrid] [clears throat] So really then there was one stable camp and a number of mobile camps sort of scattered through- [Ian] Yep yeah up to

10:42

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about 5 or so at a time. [Ingrid] Did you ever want to go back to Enderby Land? about 5 or so at a time. [Ingrid] Did you ever want to go back to Enderby Land?

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I would have preferred to go back to ?South PCMS? which I think I would have preferred to go back to ?South PCMS? which I think

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are far more spectacular. But, but I'd go back to Enderby Land sure. are far more spectacular. But, but I'd go back to Enderby Land sure.

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Alright we might have a little talk about ?PCMs? because you did quite Alright we might have a little talk about ?PCMs? because you did quite

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a bit of extensive work there. You were there in the '71-'72, '73-'74, and then again in the '80s, late a bit of extensive work there. You were there in the '71-'72, '73-'74, and then again in the '80s, late

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'80s, '88-'89, '89-'90, and 1990. Do you want to sort of walk us '80s, '88-'89, '89-'90, and 1990. Do you want to sort of walk us

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through your time in the PCMs? [Ian] Yeah, th-the first time I went into the PCMs was the first time through your time in the PCMs? [Ian] Yeah, th-the first time I went into the PCMs was the first time

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I'd really looked at ice sheet stuff and it was a project I'd really looked at ice sheet stuff and it was a project

11:25

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that ?Bill but? had set up and I was given to implement, and we were trying to look at that ?Bill but? had set up and I was given to implement, and we were trying to look at

11:29

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what's called the ?inaudible? Lambert glacier what's called the ?inaudible? Lambert glacier

11:31

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Basin, which was one of the largest basins in Antarctica. Bill had Basin, which was one of the largest basins in Antarctica. Bill had

11:38

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been working uh, and with the- on the Amery ice shelf for many years, he with Max ?Corring? been working uh, and with the- on the Amery ice shelf for many years, he with Max ?Corring?

11:45

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and Co had run the Amery Ice Shelf expedition when Max's party had wintered on the and Co had run the Amery Ice Shelf expedition when Max's party had wintered on the

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ice shelf in '68. So we had ice shelf in '68. So we had

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a good knowledge of how much ice was flowing on the Amery Ice Shelf and I think it a good knowledge of how much ice was flowing on the Amery Ice Shelf and I think it

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was, ah what snowfall rates were and what I was doing was to look at how much was, ah what snowfall rates were and what I was doing was to look at how much

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ice was feeding into the ice shelf, into the ice shelf from the interior. And the ice was feeding into the ice shelf, into the ice shelf from the interior. And the

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whole drainage basin's about 1 and a half million square kilometres so it's about as big as the Murray- whole drainage basin's about 1 and a half million square kilometres so it's about as big as the Murray-

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Darling basin. So we were ss- based at Darling basin. So we were ss- based at

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Cresswell in the southern PCMs and I was working with a, an amazing guy called Mick Cresswell in the southern PCMs and I was working with a, an amazing guy called Mick

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Skinner who was a National Mapping technician, a really great guy to have Skinner who was a National Mapping technician, a really great guy to have

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the field, very practical, ah, keep you amused all the time, 1st thing he'd do when he'd wake up the field, very practical, ah, keep you amused all the time, 1st thing he'd do when he'd wake up

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every morning would tell you his dreams. [laughs] [IM] Interesting dreams? [IA] Oh yeah, I'm sure he made them up every morning would tell you his dreams. [laughs] [IM] Interesting dreams? [IA] Oh yeah, I'm sure he made them up

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half the time but it was, always got you revved up in the morning. Ah, and we half the time but it was, always got you revved up in the morning. Ah, and we

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Mt Cresswell was more or less in the centre, or the southern centre of the Mt Cresswell was more or less in the centre, or the southern centre of the

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South Prince Charles Mountains and our objective was to get out beyond the South Prince Charles Mountains and our objective was to get out beyond the

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mountains and to look at the ice flowing from even further south and then streaming in mountains and to look at the ice flowing from even further south and then streaming in

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a number of glaciers through the mountains into the Lambert system into the ice shelf so a number of glaciers through the mountains into the Lambert system into the ice shelf so

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we set up we set up

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a total of 13 stations out on the ice and we'd get as far out as we could on the ice a total of 13 stations out on the ice and we'd get as far out as we could on the ice

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sheet um, but within range of sheet um, but within range of

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a mountain where the surveyors under John Manning would set up tripods and distance a mountain where the surveyors under John Manning would set up tripods and distance

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measuring equipment, tellurometers, and we'd have our tellurometer measuring equipment, tellurometers, and we'd have our tellurometer

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at our end and our, our, our theodolites too and at our end and our, our, our theodolites too and

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they, so they, they'd position us by ?irresection? um, and we'd measure they, so they, they'd position us by ?irresection? um, and we'd measure

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the vertical angles, reciprocal vertical angles, to measure the height of our surfaces the vertical angles, reciprocal vertical angles, to measure the height of our surfaces

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and we'd measure the, the distance with the tellurometers so we'd accurately position that, that point. and we'd measure the, the distance with the tellurometers so we'd accurately position that, that point.

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We'd mark it with what was called, and we called, invisible markers. And these were We'd mark it with what was called, and we called, invisible markers. And these were

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expanded mesh, you know that- mesh you get that's been stomped into expanded mesh, you know that- mesh you get that's been stomped into

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with cuts every now and then and they stretch it so it makes with cuts every now and then and they stretch it so it makes

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a diamond pattern. You get 3 sheets of that, and, when you look at it a diamond pattern. You get 3 sheets of that, and, when you look at it

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you see right through it but actually if you get the right angle from the air it looks you see right through it but actually if you get the right angle from the air it looks

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solid when you're looking down on it. So we paint that fluro orange and we put these solid when you're looking down on it. So we paint that fluro orange and we put these

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markers markers

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there then we'd whiz off to the next one. [IM] So how would you fasten them onto the ice? [IA] We'd just dig a hole and bury them there then we'd whiz off to the next one. [IM] So how would you fasten them onto the ice? [IA] We'd just dig a hole and bury them

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in, we'd bo-bow the bottom over and put, bury snow on them so they stood there and we used them in, we'd bo-bow the bottom over and put, bury snow on them so they stood there and we used them

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as rubbish tips which are, rubbish into the interior. So we set up as rubbish tips which are, rubbish into the interior. So we set up

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I think it was I think it was

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11 of these not 13, around and some of them were up to 115 kilometres out 11 of these not 13, around and some of them were up to 115 kilometres out

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from the mountains. I think ah, the longest shot we did, and I think it must have been a from the mountains. I think ah, the longest shot we did, and I think it must have been a

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new world record for a single tellurometer line from a new world record for a single tellurometer line from a

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mountain to the ground, it was 115 kilometres, that was from mountain to the ground, it was 115 kilometres, that was from

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Mt Menzies out. So we were right out beyond things. Ah, we got those all established, Mt Menzies out. So we were right out beyond things. Ah, we got those all established,

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that season went pretty well. Ah, I fell into that season went pretty well. Ah, I fell into

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a slot towards the end, but that was my own mistake. [IM] How did you manage that? [IA] Oh, the helicopters were late coming to pick us up, a slot towards the end, but that was my own mistake. [IM] How did you manage that? [IA] Oh, the helicopters were late coming to pick us up,

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one of the things I'd also do, ah, we'd drill a hole and measure the temperature at 10 metre depth. It takes one of the things I'd also do, ah, we'd drill a hole and measure the temperature at 10 metre depth. It takes

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a while to drill a 10 metre hole. It's much easier if you can find a while to drill a 10 metre hole. It's much easier if you can find

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a crevasse that's open and goes down to 10 metres because the air doesn't get disturbed very much a crevasse that's open and goes down to 10 metres because the air doesn't get disturbed very much

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and if you drop something down you measure the same temperature. [IM] So it's quite and if you drop something down you measure the same temperature. [IM] So it's quite

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accurate even just using a ready made crevasse? [IA] Yep, and I was stomping around on this dome trying to find accurate even just using a ready made crevasse? [IA] Yep, and I was stomping around on this dome trying to find

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a crevasse and I couldn't find one that was open so I kept stomping further up the a crevasse and I couldn't find one that was open so I kept stomping further up the

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dome in dome in

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a bad mood, unroped, and found one. [laughs] And I must've fallen about a bad mood, unroped, and found one. [laughs] And I must've fallen about

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3 or 4 metres I think and hit 3 or 4 metres I think and hit

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a snow bridge and slid another 3 or 4 metres and came to, to rest, ah, looking down a snow bridge and slid another 3 or 4 metres and came to, to rest, ah, looking down

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the dark blue bit. [laughs] [IM] So considerably deeper, past the snow bridge. [IA]Yeah, yeah, but I felt fine, the dark blue bit. [laughs] [IM] So considerably deeper, past the snow bridge. [IA]Yeah, yeah, but I felt fine,

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it took a long time. M-Mick went back and got one of the caving ladders we had and ah, [IM] How did they it took a long time. M-Mick went back and got one of the caving ladders we had and ah, [IM] How did they

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find you? Were you carrying radio or had someone seen you disappear? [IA] Well no, Mi-Mick was with me but we weren't roped. He went back to the tent find you? Were you carrying radio or had someone seen you disappear? [IA] Well no, Mi-Mick was with me but we weren't roped. He went back to the tent

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and the longest part was sort of wondering whether he'd, he was Ok and got back and the longest part was sort of wondering whether he'd, he was Ok and got back

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or he'd also fallen down the hole but eventually got back and put down the top rope and lashed or he'd also fallen down the hole but eventually got back and put down the top rope and lashed

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everything together and I ?? climbed up. Unfortunately I just got to the top when everything together and I ?? climbed up. Unfortunately I just got to the top when

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the helicopters arrived so we couldn't hide it the helicopters arrived so we couldn't hide it

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completely. I don't think in those days you reported an instance like that. Everything went completely. I don't think in those days you reported an instance like that. Everything went

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well so [laughs] that was fine. [laughs] [IM] Given you've done extensive work on the ice have you ever well so [laughs] that was fine. [laughs] [IM] Given you've done extensive work on the ice have you ever

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?misses? or visits down crevasses? [IA] No not really. [IM] Which is surprising actually, given- ?misses? or visits down crevasses? [IA] No not really. [IM] Which is surprising actually, given-

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Oh no, you get a bit, you do [laughing] wake up after one occasion, but Oh no, you get a bit, you do [laughing] wake up after one occasion, but

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we went back again 2 years later and remeasured all those, those markers and... [IM] and they were still we went back again 2 years later and remeasured all those, those markers and... [IM] and they were still

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they were still there, it was interesting, we didn't have g.p.s., we'd they were still there, it was interesting, we didn't have g.p.s., we'd

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get a, we only had an angle from the top of the mountain and the distance which get a, we only had an angle from the top of the mountain and the distance which

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we'd fly out with the helicopters, we had pictures we'd taken from the sights of we'd fly out with the helicopters, we had pictures we'd taken from the sights of

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panoramas of the mountain so you could try and locate yourself and try and find these panoramas of the mountain so you could try and locate yourself and try and find these

17:38

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invisible markers. We found them all without invisible markers. We found them all without

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a lot of trouble and remeasured them all. [IM] And what were the findings? [IA] We, we made estimates of the ice a lot of trouble and remeasured them all. [IM] And what were the findings? [IA] We, we made estimates of the ice

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flow into the Amery Ice Shelf from the interior, and, concluded at that flow into the Amery Ice Shelf from the interior, and, concluded at that

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stage that um, the interior of the basin was pretty much in balance but as you got stage that um, the interior of the basin was pretty much in balance but as you got

18:01

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further down the ice was probably building up. Now that's turned out to be wrong further down the ice was probably building up. Now that's turned out to be wrong

18:07

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and the reason it's wrong, is that, our knowledge then of the Amery Ice Shelf, despite the surveys we'd and the reason it's wrong, is that, our knowledge then of the Amery Ice Shelf, despite the surveys we'd

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had, had it finishing a little south of ah, Jetty had, had it finishing a little south of ah, Jetty

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Peninsula. In fact it continues floating for another 200 kilometres further Peninsula. In fact it continues floating for another 200 kilometres further

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south. We found that out quite south. We found that out quite

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a few years later and that further south bit has very high rates of melt so there's a few years later and that further south bit has very high rates of melt so there's

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a huge loss of ice in that most southerly part that we weren't aware was happening a huge loss of ice in that most southerly part that we weren't aware was happening

18:38

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then so it was between where Bill had measured and where we were measuring there's this bit then so it was between where Bill had measured and where we were measuring there's this bit

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in the middle that things, we weren't expecting were happening, but when you put that together in the middle that things, we weren't expecting were happening, but when you put that together

18:49

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with the new findings everything fitted and it's similar to what we know now but we with the new findings everything fitted and it's similar to what we know now but we

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were missing a link back then. [IM] So when you were around the um, southern PCMs in the early '70s how were the teams were missing a link back then. [IM] So when you were around the um, southern PCMs in the early '70s how were the teams

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where were you using as your base, what were your logistics? where were you using as your base, what were your logistics?

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We were working out of Cresswell but they'd worked out of the Northern Prince Charles We were working out of Cresswell but they'd worked out of the Northern Prince Charles

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Mountains, out of Moore Pyramid for Mountains, out of Moore Pyramid for

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a few years and this was the 1st year in, '72-3 was it? a few years and this was the 1st year in, '72-3 was it?

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A 3, aah, 1-2, I forget, ah, where we'd gone to the southern PCM. A 3, aah, 1-2, I forget, ah, where we'd gone to the southern PCM.

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We were working out of Mt Cresswell, that had been supplied by D4 We were working out of Mt Cresswell, that had been supplied by D4

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traverses out of Mawson, had taken the fuel in, so that was a long way south actually for traverses out of Mawson, had taken the fuel in, so that was a long way south actually for

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D4s and had 2 traverses in. [IM] Did they also take in other supplies as well as fuel? [IA] Yeah, took in all of D4s and had 2 traverses in. [IM] Did they also take in other supplies as well as fuel? [IA] Yeah, took in all of

19:49

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the fuel they took in, again we were working out the fuel they took in, again we were working out

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of ?parkoles? and polar pyramid tents. Um, and of ?parkoles? and polar pyramid tents. Um, and

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food stocks, most of the gear went in by tractor train and the personnel came in on the food stocks, most of the gear went in by tractor train and the personnel came in on the

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1st voyage of the summer which typically didn't get to Mawson until... In those days 1st voyage of the summer which typically didn't get to Mawson until... In those days

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you always left Australia just before Christmas, they always had Christmas at sea, you always left Australia just before Christmas, they always had Christmas at sea,

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Christmas was always something that happened on Nella Dan. And so you wouldn't get to Mawson Christmas was always something that happened on Nella Dan. And so you wouldn't get to Mawson

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until mid-January. Um, you'd have about until mid-January. Um, you'd have about

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a month in the field and then come out again. Um, the camp consisted of a month in the field and then come out again. Um, the camp consisted of

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a Field Leader, a Field Leader,

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a doctor, a radio operator, ah, usually a cook a doctor, a radio operator, ah, usually a cook

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and then your field teams so there'd be 2 or 3 geos and then your field teams so there'd be 2 or 3 geos

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ah, 2 or 3 surveyors, in those days the geos were ah, 2 or 3 surveyors, in those days the geos were

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2nd rate citizens and they had to go where the surveyors went and pick up the rocks 2nd rate citizens and they had to go where the surveyors went and pick up the rocks

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that were on the mountains the surveyors wanted to be on. We were just starting this that were on the mountains the surveyors wanted to be on. We were just starting this

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field glaciology so there was a, really, well there was field glaciology so there was a, really, well there was

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a couple of glaciologists, later on we had people doing the echo sounding too. The 1st year a couple of glaciologists, later on we had people doing the echo sounding too. The 1st year

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we didn't and then we had people the next 2 seasons flying the radar in the water and as I we didn't and then we had people the next 2 seasons flying the radar in the water and as I

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said I had the survey tech from National Mapping, Mick Skinner working with me, said I had the survey tech from National Mapping, Mick Skinner working with me,

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later we took one of our own guys, ah... [IM] Did you have a diesel mechanic? [IA] Oh yes later we took one of our own guys, ah... [IM] Did you have a diesel mechanic? [IA] Oh yes

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you always had a couple of diesel you always had a couple of diesel

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mechanics, or at least one. [IM] And so the actual initial setting up of the camp was that done by the... [IA] That was mechanics, or at least one. [IM] And so the actual initial setting up of the camp was that done by the... [IA] That was

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[speaking together] [IM] ...team generally...[IA] ...done by the Mawson people party generally, yep... [IM] ...or, Mawson? [IA] You put up your own tent but the rest of the camp [speaking together] [IM] ...team generally...[IA] ...done by the Mawson people party generally, yep... [IM] ...or, Mawson? [IA] You put up your own tent but the rest of the camp

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usually established by the Mawson party. [IM] So they actually almost went in before you...? [IA] Yeah they'd have an autumn usually established by the Mawson party. [IM] So they actually almost went in before you...? [IA] Yeah they'd have an autumn

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traverse which may or may not get in the whole way, might establish a depot half way and then traverse which may or may not get in the whole way, might establish a depot half way and then

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a spring traverse that, take things in ready for the summer, set everything up. [IM] So they would a spring traverse that, take things in ready for the summer, set everything up. [IM] So they would

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be setting up the ?parkole? back then? [IA] Yep. [IM] ...so it was all ready, hmm... Was there much, [pause] you know, given the be setting up the ?parkole? back then? [IA] Yep. [IM] ...so it was all ready, hmm... Was there much, [pause] you know, given the

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conditions in Antarctica, it probably sounds a little conditions in Antarctica, it probably sounds a little

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little unusual to set up the camp and then wait for what could be a couple of months for the new team to come in. Was there little unusual to set up the camp and then wait for what could be a couple of months for the new team to come in. Was there

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much destruction or things lost because of the winds or... [IA] No, no, I mean much destruction or things lost because of the winds or... [IA] No, no, I mean

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spring traverse would leave in late spring. It wouldn't get out there too much earlier, spring traverse would leave in late spring. It wouldn't get out there too much earlier,

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they'd typically be waiting and the traverse party would normally wait out there until they'd typically be waiting and the traverse party would normally wait out there until

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the 1st guys came in off, off the ship and then the traverse would... and often they'd the 1st guys came in off, off the ship and then the traverse would... and often they'd

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stay there the ti-, all the time because in fact the 2nd, or the final year we were there stay there the ti-, all the time because in fact the 2nd, or the final year we were there

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and I can't remember whether this was normal or whether it was because they were going to withdraw the and I can't remember whether this was normal or whether it was because they were going to withdraw the

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camp, we'd lost one of the helicopters, um, wrote it off completely and very lucky to... camp, we'd lost one of the helicopters, um, wrote it off completely and very lucky to...

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came in on the wrong side of the mountain on, on the down wind side, caught in the draft came in on the wrong side of the mountain on, on the down wind side, caught in the draft

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in in

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a place called Burke Ridge and rolled the bloody thing down the mountain, caught the blade tip. a place called Burke Ridge and rolled the bloody thing down the mountain, caught the blade tip.

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That was a Hughes500 but the capsule remained and the surveyor and the pilot were That was a Hughes500 but the capsule remained and the surveyor and the pilot were

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fine, fine,

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a bit bruised and battered, but the helicopter wasn't and with one less helicopter, um, the a bit bruised and battered, but the helicopter wasn't and with one less helicopter, um, the

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fuelers had to return to Mawson with the traverse so we [missing words?] fuelers had to return to Mawson with the traverse so we [missing words?]

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us back to Mawson. [IM] So that brought you down to 2 helicopters and... ?Pilatus? us back to Mawson. [IM] So that brought you down to 2 helicopters and... ?Pilatus?

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[IA] Yep, yeah... [IM] ...rather than the 3. [IA] ...but by that stage of course you start constricting the program [IA] Yep, yeah... [IM] ...rather than the 3. [IA] ...but by that stage of course you start constricting the program

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because you haven't got the same back up and support without helicopters. [IM] Did you have to constrict it by [Missing words?]. because you haven't got the same back up and support without helicopters. [IM] Did you have to constrict it by [Missing words?].

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[IA] A little bit. We, we [pause] we did the stations we'd previously occupied. [IA] A little bit. We, we [pause] we did the stations we'd previously occupied.

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There was some limitation on new stations, new survey stations, and ?? mapping. There was some limitation on new stations, new survey stations, and ?? mapping.

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But it was, it ha-happened in the 2nd half of the season so But it was, it ha-happened in the 2nd half of the season so

23:59

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[Missing words?] ?compare? the group dynamics of a team that are really out in the fill-field [Missing words?] ?compare? the group dynamics of a team that are really out in the fill-field

24:06

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actually compared to that as wintering on the station or summering on [missing words?] actually compared to that as wintering on the station or summering on [missing words?]

24:14

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Bit hard to say 'cause in my role I, I'd g-get into the main base and I'd go out Bit hard to say 'cause in my role I, I'd g-get into the main base and I'd go out

24:20

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into the field and I wouldn't return till the end of the season so there was just 2 of us and we'd into the field and I wouldn't return till the end of the season so there was just 2 of us and we'd

24:24

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move from camp to camp around the mountains for the month, month and move from camp to camp around the mountains for the month, month and

24:29

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a half and then we'd come back in the end so other than radio contact and when the a half and then we'd come back in the end so other than radio contact and when the

24:33

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pilots came to shift us to another camp I didn't really see much of things but pilots came to shift us to another camp I didn't really see much of things but

24:38

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certainly there seemed to be a camaraderie of people who participated in certainly there seemed to be a camaraderie of people who participated in

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the deeper field part of things that sort of would like to consider themselves a [laughs] the deeper field part of things that sort of would like to consider themselves a [laughs]

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?field? elite. [laughs][IM] Do you have any say in who you would be going out in the field with, that 1 person, or was it designated by someone else? [IA] Not the 1st ?field? elite. [laughs][IM] Do you have any say in who you would be going out in the field with, that 1 person, or was it designated by someone else? [IA] Not the 1st

24:58

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year but the 2nd year when I was, by that stage I was temporarily running the glaciology year but the 2nd year when I was, by that stage I was temporarily running the glaciology

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program I selected 1 of our guys and yeah, certainly then. [IM] So what qualities do you look for when you're choosing just [missing words?] program I selected 1 of our guys and yeah, certainly then. [IM] So what qualities do you look for when you're choosing just [missing words?]

25:10

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together? [IA] Main one you look for is someone who can do the job and do the job both together? [IA] Main one you look for is someone who can do the job and do the job both

25:16

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technically and that's got the get-up-and-go to do it under the conditions. technically and that's got the get-up-and-go to do it under the conditions.

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I mean having to live I mean having to live

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with them you don't really think about [laughs] because normally if, if they do the job with them you don't really think about [laughs] because normally if, if they do the job

25:29

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technically and they're prepared to, they've got the initiative to get up and do it under technically and they're prepared to, they've got the initiative to get up and do it under

25:33

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all sorts of conditions the rest's not all sorts of conditions the rest's not

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a problem. [IM] So your communication with base, was that via ?Rad? a problem. [IM] So your communication with base, was that via ?Rad?

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phone or... [IA] No, just by HF radio. [IM] HF radio. [IA] Yeah, and phone or... [IA] No, just by HF radio. [IM] HF radio. [IA] Yeah, and

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what you'd also do in those days of course you, that was still the days your personal comms was what you'd also do in those days of course you, that was still the days your personal comms was

25:56

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by Telex, you know, your 175 words by Telex, you know, your 175 words

26:00

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a month. It was a pain in the arse getting telexes out in the deep field because they'd come by telex a month. It was a pain in the arse getting telexes out in the deep field because they'd come by telex

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into, to VLV and then... [IM] at Mawson? [IA] yep, and then they had to be transmitted out to into, to VLV and then... [IM] at Mawson? [IA] yep, and then they had to be transmitted out to

26:13

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the base radio operator who was usually busy on the base radio operator who was usually busy on

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aircraft watch and then when he found time he'd s-, you'd have a aircraft watch and then when he found time he'd s-, you'd have a

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a HF link to the field parties and pass it so, and the other way a HF link to the field parties and pass it so, and the other way

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around so I'd normally write all my, [withers?] before I went into the field and give around so I'd normally write all my, [withers?] before I went into the field and give

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to the VLV operator and said 'Send one of these to the VLV operator and said 'Send one of these

26:35

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a week, they're all numbered'. [laughs] [IM] So you were able to predict that you had grown a beard a week, they're all numbered'. [laughs] [IM] So you were able to predict that you had grown a beard

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really, well in advance [IA] Oh yes, generally yes, yes. [IM] Oh god, so there's spontaneity there. [IA] Yeah. really, well in advance [IA] Oh yes, generally yes, yes. [IM] Oh god, so there's spontaneity there. [IA] Yeah.

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Did you have your own private code, 'cause Did you have your own private code, 'cause

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a lot of the... [IA] Yeah, I know... [IM] ...guys do talk about, you know, changing either the codes, the 5-letter codes to their own personal codes [IA] Yeah, well the a lot of the... [IA] Yeah, I know... [IM] ...guys do talk about, you know, changing either the codes, the 5-letter codes to their own personal codes [IA] Yeah, well the

26:59

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obvious one's [IM] changing [IA] WYUUFK isn't it [laughs] there's one of the code groups that's obvious one's [IM] changing [IA] WYUUFK isn't it [laughs] there's one of the code groups that's

27:07

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W Y U U F K. [laughs] W Y U U F K. [laughs]

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[IM] And what does that mean, Dr Allison? [IA] [laughing] I'm not sure, I can't remember now [IM] I must say I haven't [IM] And what does that mean, Dr Allison? [IA] [laughing] I'm not sure, I can't remember now [IM] I must say I haven't

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come across that one, but, but did you make up your own codes or did you make up meanings for the come across that one, but, but did you make up your own codes or did you make up meanings for the

27:23

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current codes? What was the... [IA] Oh... [IM] Or did you just play it by the book? [IA] ...when I wintered I current codes? What was the... [IA] Oh... [IM] Or did you just play it by the book? [IA] ...when I wintered I

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made them up a little bit but you tend to get a bit bored with all that and in the end you u-use made them up a little bit but you tend to get a bit bored with all that and in the end you u-use

27:36

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a few of the common code words that people recognise, most of the time you use, you usually don't say so much. a few of the common code words that people recognise, most of the time you use, you usually don't say so much.

27:48

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What was your impression of the PCMs, the southern PCMs, what are they like? [IA] Oh they're What was your impression of the PCMs, the southern PCMs, what are they like? [IA] Oh they're

27:55

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magnificent, they're absolutely awe-inspiring, you know, just magnificent, they're absolutely awe-inspiring, you know, just

28:00

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the whole range, ah, the whole of the Mawson Escarpment, some of the bigger massifs. the whole range, ah, the whole of the Mawson Escarpment, some of the bigger massifs.

28:07

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Another sport we engaged in at one stage I'm sure's, totally not Another sport we engaged in at one stage I'm sure's, totally not

28:14

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allowed now, I think it was on Mt Stinear, there's a spot called Edward's allowed now, I think it was on Mt Stinear, there's a spot called Edward's

28:17

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Pillar where you can engage in a bit of gibberology Pillar where you can engage in a bit of gibberology

28:21

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and and

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crowbar and lever [laughs] sort of 200 pound rocks over a precipice crowbar and lever [laughs] sort of 200 pound rocks over a precipice

28:28

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and you don't see a thing till they hit the glacier below, 3000 feet below. and you don't see a thing till they hit the glacier below, 3000 feet below.

28:36

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And how do they differ from... [IA] You better strike that from the record, that's not allowed is it? [IM] Not now. How do they differ from And how do they differ from... [IA] You better strike that from the record, that's not allowed is it? [IM] Not now. How do they differ from

28:41

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from the northern PCMs? [IA] The, the mountains are more massive, larger blocks in from the northern PCMs? [IA] The, the mountains are more massive, larger blocks in

28:48

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?the sea? the south PCM, um, there tend to be more nunataks. I mean it's still ?the sea? the south PCM, um, there tend to be more nunataks. I mean it's still

28:53

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magnificent scenery, the north PCMs, and by the time you go to Enderby Land they're magnificent scenery, the north PCMs, and by the time you go to Enderby Land they're

28:57

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getting smaller again. [IM] I must say um, you talked about Mt [missing words?] getting smaller again. [IM] I must say um, you talked about Mt [missing words?]

29:04

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all named after early ANARE expeditioners who are still alive today. [IA] Yep. [IM] Do you have any geological features named after Ian all named after early ANARE expeditioners who are still alive today. [IA] Yep. [IM] Do you have any geological features named after Ian

29:11

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Allison? [IA] Um, I've got one of those blanks on the map the cartographers can't Allison? [IA] Um, I've got one of those blanks on the map the cartographers can't

29:18

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bear! A thing called Allison Dome which is bear! A thing called Allison Dome which is

29:25

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slightly east of the southern end of the Mawson Escarpment, there's a slightly east of the southern end of the Mawson Escarpment, there's a

29:29

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a bump and things, it's not a bump and things, it's not

29:30

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a real feature, might be in, one day when there's, little bit of, more melt occurs, but it's a real feature, might be in, one day when there's, little bit of, more melt occurs, but it's

29:36

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in an area where nothing else is written on the map and cartographers can stand that. in an area where nothing else is written on the map and cartographers can stand that.

29:40

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You look at the map of Australia with all these springs and things in the centre You look at the map of Australia with all these springs and things in the centre

29:43

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with a name that no-one's ever heard of. But slightly more substantial is a glacier on with a name that no-one's ever heard of. But slightly more substantial is a glacier on

29:48

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Heard Island, it's one of the longer Heard Island glaciers. [IM] And that's called ? [IA] Allison Glacier. Heard Island, it's one of the longer Heard Island glaciers. [IM] And that's called ? [IA] Allison Glacier.

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[IM] So in both those cases had you been to those locations... [IA] Yeah... [IM] ...or was it something that was assigned to you later? [IA] Well that [IM] So in both those cases had you been to those locations... [IA] Yeah... [IM] ...or was it something that was assigned to you later? [IA] Well that

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was named later but I'd been to them both, yeah. The one in the PCM was named later but I'd been to them both, yeah. The one in the PCM

30:09

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was part of what we called was part of what we called

30:11

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Great Leap Forward. [IM] Sounds very Chinese, Mao. [IA] Yes it does indeed, yes. The Great Leap Forward. [IM] Sounds very Chinese, Mao. [IA] Yes it does indeed, yes. The

30:18

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stations around the perimeter were all called GLs stations around the perimeter were all called GLs

30:21

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for glaciology, GL1, GL2, up to GL11 and then for glaciology, GL1, GL2, up to GL11 and then

30:29

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we were trying to get out to the-ee, oh, what are the mountains out to we were trying to get out to the-ee, oh, what are the mountains out to

30:35

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the west of the PC-, ah, to the east of the PCM the west of the PC-, ah, to the east of the PCM

30:39

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um, on the ??, the Chinese go there all the time, um, um, on the ??, the Chinese go there all the time, um,

30:47

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come to me come to me

30:47

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later, but we needed an intermediate spot to survey there and that was on ice and we later, but we needed an intermediate spot to survey there and that was on ice and we

30:52

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make another ice station but this was Great Leap Forward on the way to the - Grove make another ice station but this was Great Leap Forward on the way to the - Grove

30:58

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Mountains. [IM] So that... [IA] We never got to the Grove Mountains. [IM] So just out of interest, the procedure for Mountains. [IM] So that... [IA] We never got to the Grove Mountains. [IM] So just out of interest, the procedure for

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having [pause] features named after yourself, were you aware at the time that it was going to be called... [IA] No. [IM] Allison Dome [IA] No. [IM] ...or was it something having [pause] features named after yourself, were you aware at the time that it was going to be called... [IA] No. [IM] Allison Dome [IA] No. [IM] ...or was it something

31:12

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that's awarded sort of in retrospect? [IA] It was in retrospect and was mostly John Manning I think. that's awarded sort of in retrospect? [IA] It was in retrospect and was mostly John Manning I think.

31:19

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[IM] How did you feel about that? [IA] Oh, that was nice, yeah, oh yeah. [IM] I think it's amazing, [IM] How did you feel about that? [IA] Oh, that was nice, yeah, oh yeah. [IM] I think it's amazing,

31:26

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nothing left for... [IA] Oh, there's plenty left. As I was nothing left for... [IA] Oh, there's plenty left. As I was

31:29

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saying the other day at that meeting down there the, the Russians used saying the other day at that meeting down there the, the Russians used

31:36

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space photography and photogrammetry to map thousands of features in the space photography and photogrammetry to map thousands of features in the

31:43

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northern Prince Charles Mountains, mostly tiny nunataks and hills and bumps and named northern Prince Charles Mountains, mostly tiny nunataks and hills and bumps and named

31:47

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?all? ?all?

31:48

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all after the Czechoslovakian office girls who, who ran the photogrammetric machines and I don't, all after the Czechoslovakian office girls who, who ran the photogrammetric machines and I don't,

31:53

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They haven't been recognised by the naming committee so there's all those little bumps and hills to They haven't been recognised by the naming committee so there's all those little bumps and hills to

31:57

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be named. [IM] So- [IA] I don't think the rules now allow them being named after living be named. [IM] So- [IA] I don't think the rules now allow them being named after living

32:04

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expeditioners, you've got to expeditioners, you've got to

32:07

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die now so many of the many many of the bigger ones would go away. [IM] So you... [IA] Unless they're royalty, die now so many of the many many of the bigger ones would go away. [IM] So you... [IA] Unless they're royalty,

32:13

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which reminds me, the other one, one of the old IAGP traverses which reminds me, the other one, one of the old IAGP traverses

32:19

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a guy called Tim Medhurst, and they were doing the traverses along the a guy called Tim Medhurst, and they were doing the traverses along the

32:26

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2000 metre contour from Casey. 2000 metre contour from Casey.

32:30

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So they go inland then around the 2000 metre contour to ?Merni? we got a message So they go inland then around the 2000 metre contour to ?Merni? we got a message

32:35

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one day that he'd discovered, no-one of been in that area before but he'd found some new one day that he'd discovered, no-one of been in that area before but he'd found some new

32:41

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nunataks and they were going to name them the Lady Di nunataks. It was only when we nunataks and they were going to name them the Lady Di nunataks. It was only when we

32:46

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checked the telex and found it was the 1st of April [laughs]. checked the telex and found it was the 1st of April [laughs].

32:56

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[IM] So you were in the southern PCMs [IM] So you were in the southern PCMs

32:58

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in the early '70s and then in the late '80s-early '90s you [missing words?] in the early '70s and then in the late '80s-early '90s you [missing words?]

33:06

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[IA] Yeah, that was working the northern PCMs [IA] Yeah, that was working the northern PCMs

33:08

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and we got back into the Amery, um, and we were re-really, we knew that the and we got back into the Amery, um, and we were re-really, we knew that the

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stage was floating further inland and ?again? we wanted to look at the thickness of stage was floating further inland and ?again? we wanted to look at the thickness of

33:20

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the Amery, what was going on there, and the flow from some of the northern PCM the Amery, what was going on there, and the flow from some of the northern PCM

33:27

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streams like ?Charybdis? and um Scylla glaciers were actually quite important, they're no way streams like ?Charybdis? and um Scylla glaciers were actually quite important, they're no way

33:34

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near as big as the ones coming from further south in terms of size, ah, but the snowfall near as big as the ones coming from further south in terms of size, ah, but the snowfall

33:39

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rates were rates were

33:39

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a lot higher there so there's quite a considerable amount of mass. Ah, so we were based a lot higher there so there's quite a considerable amount of mass. Ah, so we were based

33:45

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at um, [pause] oh, I'll come back to that, at um, [pause] oh, I'll come back to that,

33:53

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it's too recent to remember, ah, named after one it's too recent to remember, ah, named after one

34:00

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the physicists, old physicists, Mt Jacklyn was it? [IM] Jacklyn [IA] Yeah. We weren't at Mt Jacklyn, I think My Jacklyn the physicists, old physicists, Mt Jacklyn was it? [IM] Jacklyn [IA] Yeah. We weren't at Mt Jacklyn, I think My Jacklyn

34:07

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was over the road, we went there, anyway in that region. And I went in that season was over the road, we went there, anyway in that region. And I went in that season

34:14

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it was rather interesting in fact 'cause um, that was the year it was rather interesting in fact 'cause um, that was the year

34:18

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year Dick Smith was doing his flying to Antarctica thing. And I'd had contact with year Dick Smith was doing his flying to Antarctica thing. And I'd had contact with

34:24

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Dick, partly, he'd contacted us and I'd been in touch with him earlier and he wanted Dick, partly, he'd contacted us and I'd been in touch with him earlier and he wanted

34:31

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to do something to make his trip not just to do something to make his trip not just

34:35

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a jolly, to make it science too so... [IM] This sounds like a recurring theme over the last 100 years. [IA] Yeah. a jolly, to make it science too so... [IM] This sounds like a recurring theme over the last 100 years. [IA] Yeah.

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So we negotiated together and we agreed that we'd do some radio-echo So we negotiated together and we agreed that we'd do some radio-echo

34:48

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soundings out of his Twin Otter and I flew up, soundings out of his Twin Otter and I flew up,

34:54

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a couple of times, up to meet him in Sydney and up to Bankstown to have a couple of times, up to meet him in Sydney and up to Bankstown to have

35:01

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antennas mounted. The, the aircraft was an old um, maybe not so old but it was antennas mounted. The, the aircraft was an old um, maybe not so old but it was

35:06

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a Twin Otter that had previously been used for geophysical surveys so had a a Twin Otter that had previously been used for geophysical surveys so had a

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lot of gear in it. I'm not sure but in those days it only cost us about lot of gear in it. I'm not sure but in those days it only cost us about

35:14

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$2000 to have the antenna fitted and all the quotes we get now for things on the $2000 to have the antenna fitted and all the quotes we get now for things on the

35:19

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?CASA? seem to be at $200,000 but, so we got the antennas fitted and built up ?CASA? seem to be at $200,000 but, so we got the antennas fitted and built up

35:25

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racks and stuff, um, and myself and a guy called Peter racks and stuff, um, and myself and a guy called Peter

35:32

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Mantel were going to do that so we went down on the ship, it was Icebird I think, Mantel were going to do that so we went down on the ship, it was Icebird I think,

35:39

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into Davis and caught up with Dick and the guy who did most of the flying actually into Davis and caught up with Dick and the guy who did most of the flying actually

35:45

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Giles Kershaw ah, who had flown Twin Otters for the British Antarctic Giles Kershaw ah, who had flown Twin Otters for the British Antarctic

35:51

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Survey for Survey for

35:52

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years and years and years and the Brits always used to fly their years and years and years and the Brits always used to fly their

35:56

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radio-echo sounding at 10 metres above terrain because that means you get ?rino? radio-echo sounding at 10 metres above terrain because that means you get ?rino?

36:03

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rid of one of the parameters. If you fly too much higher you've got to know the distance rid of one of the parameters. If you fly too much higher you've got to know the distance

36:06

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to the surface, your height, the distance to the surface and the distance to the bottom of to the surface, your height, the distance to the surface and the distance to the bottom of

36:11

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the ice. Well if you're flying only 10 metres above the ice you can't be more than 10 metres the ice. Well if you're flying only 10 metres above the ice you can't be more than 10 metres

36:16

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out in one of those. [IM] It's fairly exciting flying! [IA] Yeah. out in one of those. [IM] It's fairly exciting flying! [IA] Yeah.

36:23

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Giles was actually a jumbo jockey for Cathay. He killed himself in the gyrocopter which was a silly Giles was actually a jumbo jockey for Cathay. He killed himself in the gyrocopter which was a silly

36:29

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thing to do for anyone in Antarctica. Ah, anyway, we met up there at Davis thing to do for anyone in Antarctica. Ah, anyway, we met up there at Davis

36:35

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and in fact ?Van Wandenaar? was back again as Station Leader, I don't know how that and in fact ?Van Wandenaar? was back again as Station Leader, I don't know how that

36:40

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happened, and we flew, happened, and we flew,

36:49

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the 1st flight one, one day do-down the Amery Ice Shelf, we did the 1st flight one, one day do-down the Amery Ice Shelf, we did

36:53

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a few test flights, there was a few problems with the radar, we fixed that, and Dick as a few test flights, there was a few problems with the radar, we fixed that, and Dick as

36:58

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a proper Boy Scout always went to bed early and leapt out early and Giles a proper Boy Scout always went to bed early and leapt out early and Giles

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came up to me came up to me

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when Dick was in bed and says 'Hey, come on, we've got some work to do' and while Dick was in bed he when Dick was in bed and says 'Hey, come on, we've got some work to do' and while Dick was in bed he

37:07

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myself and the engineer rolled another 10 drums of fuel into the aircraft, myself and the engineer rolled another 10 drums of fuel into the aircraft,

37:12

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lashed them all down inside, and in the morning we head out to go down the Amery and up lashed them all down inside, and in the morning we head out to go down the Amery and up

37:19

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the Lambert and after about an hour or 2 Dick said 'Oh well, we've proved this concept the Lambert and after about an hour or 2 Dick said 'Oh well, we've proved this concept

37:25

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works, let's go home. And Giles said something like 'Ah look Dick, there's another tack works, let's go home. And Giles said something like 'Ah look Dick, there's another tack

37:30

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down here another 100 or 200 kilometres that no-one's ever been to 'Oh let's go down here another 100 or 200 kilometres that no-one's ever been to 'Oh let's go

37:36

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to that then' and so on. We kept, so we ended up going out for about 18 hours or so to that then' and so on. We kept, so we ended up going out for about 18 hours or so

37:41

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something but we, we stopped in something but we, we stopped in

37:43

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at ah, Mt King and refuelled but anyway, we'd, that's, that's at ah, Mt King and refuelled but anyway, we'd, that's, that's

37:50

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where the base camp was, Mt King. Ah, and then we did some flights to Mawson so we got where the base camp was, Mt King. Ah, and then we did some flights to Mawson so we got

37:57

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quite quite

37:57

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a lot done long range in those days with the Twin Otter and then I flew into Mt a lot done long range in those days with the Twin Otter and then I flew into Mt

38:02

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King and did the other work. We, we also had the radar that could be fitted into the King and did the other work. We, we also had the radar that could be fitted into the

38:07

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helicopters. Um, Ian Bird who had previously been helicopters. Um, Ian Bird who had previously been

38:12

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head of the Division's electronic lab and did come up with head of the Division's electronic lab and did come up with

38:16

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a system whereby we could run one antenna with a transmit/receive a system whereby we could run one antenna with a transmit/receive

38:19

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switch that would allow everything to work under a helicopter, put switch that would allow everything to work under a helicopter, put

38:23

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a paint, reflecting paint, used as a reflector in the helicopter belly so we did a paint, reflecting paint, used as a reflector in the helicopter belly so we did

38:29

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a bit of that. We also for the fi-first time started using g.p.s. a bit of that. We also for the fi-first time started using g.p.s.

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In fact that was the 1st time we'd operated g.p.s. In fact that was the 1st time we'd operated g.p.s.

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and it was when the 1st Gulf War was on, that's right, we, [pause] the g.p.s. and it was when the 1st Gulf War was on, that's right, we, [pause] the g.p.s.

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satellite program was behind schedule after the 1st space shuttle disaster and satellite program was behind schedule after the 1st space shuttle disaster and

38:51

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then after troubles in the Middle East they started spitting up a new g.p.s. then after troubles in the Middle East they started spitting up a new g.p.s.

38:57

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satellite once a month but still when we went to the field there wasn't satellite once a month but still when we went to the field there wasn't

39:01

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a full consolation you could only get full coverage for about 4 hours a full consolation you could only get full coverage for about 4 hours

39:04

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a day, and you had to time things to be out there then. And then all of a day, and you had to time things to be out there then. And then all of

39:10

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a sudden we were in the field all the satellites shifted along to the same a sudden we were in the field all the satellites shifted along to the same

39:14

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longitude we were at which was roughly the same longitude longitude we were at which was roughly the same longitude

39:17

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Iraq was at. Just, just meant the whistle had blown and the game had started. And Iraq was at. Just, just meant the whistle had blown and the game had started. And

39:23

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it gave us a slight advantage but still that only last for so many hours it gave us a slight advantage but still that only last for so many hours

39:28

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a day. [IM] Did you do any other research on that project? [IA] We were looking at the, the flow a day. [IM] Did you do any other research on that project? [IA] We were looking at the, the flow

39:35

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of the tributary glaciers, we were looking at um, the, the ice thickness of the Amery, of the tributary glaciers, we were looking at um, the, the ice thickness of the Amery,

39:40

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the upper reaches of the Amery and other tributary glaciers and the mass flux in there. the upper reaches of the Amery and other tributary glaciers and the mass flux in there.

39:45

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Yes, something, don't remember. Think it was Rod Ledingham was in charge of the party which was Yes, something, don't remember. Think it was Rod Ledingham was in charge of the party which was

39:51

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always good fun. Ah, but we flew out early to put a marker, and with a g.p.s. always good fun. Ah, but we flew out early to put a marker, and with a g.p.s.

39:57

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as opposed to waiting 2 years for them, as opposed to waiting 2 years for them,

40:00

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a traditional satellite, we could, and particularly faster moving glaciers we could get a traditional satellite, we could, and particularly faster moving glaciers we could get

40:04

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a repeat measurement over a month or so. We put off, we had a bit of a repeat measurement over a month or so. We put off, we had a bit of

40:10

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bad weather early and we flew out, must have been just after Christmas, bad weather early and we flew out, must have been just after Christmas,

40:18

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to the Scylla Glacier where it drained into the Amery and landed and put up some marker to the Scylla Glacier where it drained into the Amery and landed and put up some marker

40:24

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poles and stomped around and dug holes and everything. Went back there and there'd just poles and stomped around and dug holes and everything. Went back there and there'd just

40:30

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been new snowfall and everything was nice and clean, went back there month and half been new snowfall and everything was nice and clean, went back there month and half

40:35

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later to re-measure it, there's this bloody pole sitting in the middle of later to re-measure it, there's this bloody pole sitting in the middle of

40:39

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a breech crevasse about 200 meters wide [laughs]. [IM] How did you measure that? a breech crevasse about 200 meters wide [laughs]. [IM] How did you measure that?

40:48

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It actually was a very thick bridge because we'd taken a core from it It actually was a very thick bridge because we'd taken a core from it

40:51

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2 metres thick but the helicopter wasn't going to shut down on the middle of this 2 metres thick but the helicopter wasn't going to shut down on the middle of this

40:56

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bridge again as it had last time. He stopped at the edge and we roped up and went out and bridge again as it had last time. He stopped at the edge and we roped up and went out and

41:02

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remeasured. That was fine, nothing happened, but we took the precautions. [IM] Did you have any remeasured. That was fine, nothing happened, but we took the precautions. [IM] Did you have any

41:09

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other recollections other recollections

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on the PCMs? [IA] Ah, I have very pleasant recollections of the spa we had on the PCMs? [IA] Ah, I have very pleasant recollections of the spa we had

41:16

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at Mt King. [IM] Tell me about that. [IA] Again everything was provided for the at Mt King. [IM] Tell me about that. [IA] Again everything was provided for the

41:23

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summer camp by traverse, and um, all the summer camp by traverse, and um, all the

41:30

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frozen meat, by this stage things were getting a bit more frozen meat, by this stage things were getting a bit more

41:33

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luxurious, you had frozen meat, and that came out in this large plastic tank which was luxurious, you had frozen meat, and that came out in this large plastic tank which was

41:38

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about a metre, metre and a about a metre, metre and a

41:43

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half cube I guess, and it was double walled so it was insulated and all the frozen meat was in there. half cube I guess, and it was double walled so it was insulated and all the frozen meat was in there.

41:49

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When we got it out there we dug an ice cave and stuck it in there. [IM] In the plastic contain...? [IA] No no When we got it out there we dug an ice cave and stuck it in there. [IM] In the plastic contain...? [IA] No no

41:56

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that the meat in so you know we made a tunnel entrance and hollowed it out and made a nice that the meat in so you know we made a tunnel entrance and hollowed it out and made a nice

42:02

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very cold ice cave and that was great for the foo- meat. We had this plastic thing left very cold ice cave and that was great for the foo- meat. We had this plastic thing left

42:07

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and Rod as Rod, only Rod does it, brought along this and Rod as Rod, only Rod does it, brought along this

42:14

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petrol heater, some sort of totally primitive Army thing that had a, petrol heater, some sort of totally primitive Army thing that had a,

42:18

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all it was was a tube with all it was was a tube with

42:21

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a ?toroid? down the bottom, and a petrol tank on the bottom and in the bottom of the ?toroid? a ?toroid? down the bottom, and a petrol tank on the bottom and in the bottom of the ?toroid?

42:25

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was was

42:26

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a splash plate and you'd open this tap and it would drop drops of raw petrol a splash plate and you'd open this tap and it would drop drops of raw petrol

42:33

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onto this plate and it would splash and make a, and then you'd onto this plate and it would splash and make a, and then you'd

42:36

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light it. And once it got going that would drip splash and long as it all went around light it. And once it got going that would drip splash and long as it all went around

42:43

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the right way and didn't blow back up to the tank it was all right. So we cut the ends out of the right way and didn't blow back up to the tank it was all right. So we cut the ends out of

42:49

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a 44 gallon drum and lash this thing to that and stuck it in the a 44 gallon drum and lash this thing to that and stuck it in the

42:55

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plastic thing with some, a bi-, initially plastic thing with some, a bi-, initially

42:59

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a bit of water, we had a snow-melter in one of the vans. We had one of the Lambert a bit of water, we had a snow-melter in one of the vans. We had one of the Lambert

43:04

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Glacier basin traverse vans, we were just starting on that program and that was parked Glacier basin traverse vans, we were just starting on that program and that was parked

43:08

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there, there,

43:09

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a lot of snow and eventually we filled the thing up with hot water, or water, and a lot of snow and eventually we filled the thing up with hot water, or water, and

43:15

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then every day you'd fire it up when you went out for then every day you'd fire it up when you went out for

43:18

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a day's work, fire it up in the morning, by the time you got back it was steaming hot, it was sit-, just a day's work, fire it up in the morning, by the time you got back it was steaming hot, it was sit-, just

43:24

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sitting out on the ice overlooking the mountains, you'd tear your clothes off and about sitting out on the ice overlooking the mountains, you'd tear your clothes off and about

43:28

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4 people would get into it with a light beer each and just sit there in the hot water 4 people would get into it with a light beer each and just sit there in the hot water

43:33

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looking over the mountain, all the ice around you and, very pleasant. Trouble was it grew looking over the mountain, all the ice around you and, very pleasant. Trouble was it grew

43:38

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fungus very quickly. [laughs] [IM] So had Rod actually planned for a spa? fungus very quickly. [laughs] [IM] So had Rod actually planned for a spa?

43:46

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[IA] Sorry, had? [IM] ...planned to have a spa or do you think it was purely opportunistic? [IA] Sorry, had? [IM] ...planned to have a spa or do you think it was purely opportunistic?

43:53

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You never tell with Rod can you. [both laugh] [IM] That's right. [IA] And the other one we had then was the... You never tell with Rod can you. [both laugh] [IM] That's right. [IA] And the other one we had then was the...

44:00

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the Egyptian traverse. [pause] We were getting low on the Egyptian traverse. [pause] We were getting low on

44:07

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can fuel and there was some fuel still at Moore Pyramid. Was it Moore Pyramid or Depot Peak? can fuel and there was some fuel still at Moore Pyramid. Was it Moore Pyramid or Depot Peak?

44:13

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and we had one sled and and we had one sled and

44:19

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a tractor. We didn't have any caravans, it was going to be a tractor. We didn't have any caravans, it was going to be

44:22

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a few days to get there and go and get this fuel so they erected a few days to get there and go and get this fuel so they erected

44:25

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a couple of tents on the sled [laughs] and ah, [IM] Polar pyramids [IA] ...polar a couple of tents on the sled [laughs] and ah, [IM] Polar pyramids [IA] ...polar

44:32

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pyramids, so that was the Egyptian traverse, they headed out into the distance, come back with pyramids, so that was the Egyptian traverse, they headed out into the distance, come back with

44:36

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fuel, mmm. [IM] I wouldn't have said it was quite a fuel, mmm. [IM] I wouldn't have said it was quite a

44:42

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life of luxury but there certainly was an life of luxury but there certainly was an

44:44

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element of ingenuity. [IA] Yeah it, field camps were getting fairly luxurious by then at the base element of ingenuity. [IA] Yeah it, field camps were getting fairly luxurious by then at the base

44:51

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camp and, you know, I was doing cut-lunch exploring at this stage, [IM] Meaning? [IA] You didn't camp and, you know, I was doing cut-lunch exploring at this stage, [IM] Meaning? [IA] You didn't

44:58

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go out and stay out in the field, um. There were go out and stay out in the field, um. There were

45:01

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a few parties we had there but my work because it involved going out with a a few parties we had there but my work because it involved going out with a

45:06

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helicopter establishing markers, doing some echo-sounding, I'd come back helicopter establishing markers, doing some echo-sounding, I'd come back

45:09

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each night and well, actually sleeping in a ah, Apple. Sheer luxury. each night and well, actually sleeping in a ah, Apple. Sheer luxury.

45:17

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?to look up berry but? [IM] So how had the Apple been delivered there? [IA] They would come ?to look up berry but? [IM] So how had the Apple been delivered there? [IA] They would come

45:21

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come out on the traverse, [IM] as well... [IA] yeah, yeah. [IM] The apples aren't come out on the traverse, [IM] as well... [IA] yeah, yeah. [IM] The apples aren't

45:25

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very large for sleeping so how many people would be per apple? [IA] We had 2 per Apple. [IM] 2 per apple, so a few very large for sleeping so how many people would be per apple? [IA] We had 2 per Apple. [IM] 2 per apple, so a few

45:31

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Apples? [IA] Yep, so 2, and that, that was the office too, because we had to, well with the g.p.s. Apples? [IA] Yep, so 2, and that, that was the office too, because we had to, well with the g.p.s.

45:37

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stuff we had to do the calculations and computations every night. [IM] So given that you were out stuff we had to do the calculations and computations every night. [IM] So given that you were out

45:42

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there for there for

45:43

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a reasonable period of time what was your, were you limited in the amount of luggage you could take, personal gear? [IA] Yeah a reasonable period of time what was your, were you limited in the amount of luggage you could take, personal gear? [IA] Yeah

45:50

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because when you flew out, you know, you... [IM] So what did you pack for sort of like, either luxuries or because when you flew out, you know, you... [IM] So what did you pack for sort of like, either luxuries or

45:57

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treats or recreation? Did you have treats or recreation? Did you have

45:60

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a plan by then of what you wanted to take out for a long period in the field? [IA] Ah, no a plan by then of what you wanted to take out for a long period in the field? [IA] Ah, no

46:08

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I can't remember taking very much in the way of any of those things, I mean you just took... [IM] So no special I can't remember taking very much in the way of any of those things, I mean you just took... [IM] So no special

46:11

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food items or alcohol or... [IA] No, no, food items, there was stuff, there was food items or alcohol or... [IA] No, no, food items, there was stuff, there was

46:16

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a well packed kitchen caravan that was actually chock- a well packed kitchen caravan that was actually chock-

46:20

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a-block with spices and stuff so I could move in. We'd all take a go at a-block with spices and stuff so I could move in. We'd all take a go at

46:25

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cooking. I can't remember, I don't think we had a, no we didn't have a dedicated cook at that cooking. I can't remember, I don't think we had a, no we didn't have a dedicated cook at that

46:30

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field camp so Rod used to do field camp so Rod used to do

46:32

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a fair bit and that was never the best so we'd all take turns. [IM] How would you describe Rod's a fair bit and that was never the best so we'd all take turns. [IM] How would you describe Rod's

46:38

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cooking? cooking?

46:51

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Well when we had the phantom baker too. [pause] Every night someone Well when we had the phantom baker too. [pause] Every night someone

46:59

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who, we all know who but ah, we didn't initially, someone would make secret loaves of who, we all know who but ah, we didn't initially, someone would make secret loaves of

47:05

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bread at 3am in the morning so when we got up in the morning there was fresh bread. [IM] What? So who was that? [IA] Oh, it was bread at 3am in the morning so when we got up in the morning there was fresh bread. [IM] What? So who was that? [IA] Oh, it was

47:11

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Peter Mantel. [IM] Were there any um, special celebrations while you were out Peter Mantel. [IM] Were there any um, special celebrations while you were out

47:20

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[IA] There was a few birthdays, um, there was [IA] There was a few birthdays, um, there was

47:28

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ah we visited the Russians, they were down the road. [IM] When you say 'down the ah we visited the Russians, they were down the road. [IM] When you say 'down the

47:31

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road', how far down the road? [IA] Ah, they had road', how far down the road? [IA] Ah, they had

47:35

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a camp on um, a camp on um,

47:43

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mind goes again, um, Jetty Peninsula, forget the name of that one but they were mind goes again, um, Jetty Peninsula, forget the name of that one but they were

47:48

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working working

47:49

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a little bit further south. You could see the skid marks of little Land Rovskis all a little bit further south. You could see the skid marks of little Land Rovskis all

47:54

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over the terrain and stuff and they had over the terrain and stuff and they had

47:55

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a field camp down there of geologists. I remember stepping out the aeroplane, I think Pip a field camp down there of geologists. I remember stepping out the aeroplane, I think Pip

48:01

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Turner was one of the pilots, and we were all there we had the 1st issue of the Turner was one of the pilots, and we were all there we had the 1st issue of the

48:06

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ANARE freezer suits and you got a yellow one or ANARE freezer suits and you got a yellow one or

48:09

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a green one or an orange one and the Russians comment they thought that was the a green one or an orange one and the Russians comment they thought that was the

48:13

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clowns coming to town [laughs] when they looked out and saw us. clowns coming to town [laughs] when they looked out and saw us.

48:22

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And we presented them And we presented them

48:23

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a copy with, of the Beaver Atlas, named after Beaver Lake of course, it was a copy with, of the Beaver Atlas, named after Beaver Lake of course, it was

48:29

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a picture of girls on beaches and they were very happy to get that. a picture of girls on beaches and they were very happy to get that.

48:38

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[IM] Dressed in freezer suits? [IA] No, no they weren't. [IM] Were they dressed in anything? [IA] They were dressed, yes, they were all dressed. [IM] Dressed in freezer suits? [IA] No, no they weren't. [IM] Were they dressed in anything? [IA] They were dressed, yes, they were all dressed.

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Days have changed but fairly skimpily. And we had Days have changed but fairly skimpily. And we had

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a play and Doug Foster was involved with that and one of the other a play and Doug Foster was involved with that and one of the other

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geos. It was based loosely on Cinderella but it wasn't geos. It was based loosely on Cinderella but it wasn't

49:03

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Cinderella it was more about geologists and [laughs] hoary old men of Cinderella it was more about geologists and [laughs] hoary old men of

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the mountain, Doug Adamson I think was one of those. [IM] No scripts exist the mountain, Doug Adamson I think was one of those. [IM] No scripts exist

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[IA] Ah, they probably do, I wouldn't be surprised if Doug Foster's got one. [IM] Did anyone take any [IA] Ah, they probably do, I wouldn't be surprised if Doug Foster's got one. [IM] Did anyone take any

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musical instruments or were singalongs or anything like that, you know, more community activities popular? [IA] Not musical instruments or were singalongs or anything like that, you know, more community activities popular? [IA] Not

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singalongs as such no, but you know, there was this Kristen, Christmas festival with the, with this play singalongs as such no, but you know, there was this Kristen, Christmas festival with the, with this play

49:35

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that was quite fun, yeah, and that was quite formal. [IM] You mentioned that you had contact with the Russians, that was quite fun, yeah, and that was quite formal. [IM] You mentioned that you had contact with the Russians,

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did you have contact with any other ah, nationalities or bases while you were out in the field in the PCMs over the did you have contact with any other ah, nationalities or bases while you were out in the field in the PCMs over the

49:49

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The Russians several times. When we were in the South PCMs, they flew in one The Russians several times. When we were in the South PCMs, they flew in one

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stage. Ah, when we were in Enderby Land we actually went over to Molodezhnaya stage. Ah, when we were in Enderby Land we actually went over to Molodezhnaya

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and stayed a night. Had and stayed a night. Had

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a bunya, a sauna, they actually take down frozen birch, broke, birch a bunya, a sauna, they actually take down frozen birch, broke, birch

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branches and thaw them out so you can whip yourself after the sauna. [IM] I won't ask branches and thaw them out so you can whip yourself after the sauna. [IM] I won't ask

50:22

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'cause over the years... [IA] Very healthy. [IM] Yeah. Over the years um, I mean Australia complains 'cause over the years... [IA] Very healthy. [IM] Yeah. Over the years um, I mean Australia complains

50:28

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a large slab of the Australian, Australian Antarctic Territory and there are a number of bases in that Territory a large slab of the Australian, Australian Antarctic Territory and there are a number of bases in that Territory

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belonging to other nations. How did you find belonging to other nations. How did you find

50:38

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the level of, sort of, cooperation and collaboration on a personal or scientific level? [IA] It was always the level of, sort of, cooperation and collaboration on a personal or scientific level? [IA] It was always

50:45

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very friendly. The communication was sometimes difficult but, and the scientific very friendly. The communication was sometimes difficult but, and the scientific

50:54

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cooperation developed in some areas, it tend not to happen with the fly-in-fly-out. cooperation developed in some areas, it tend not to happen with the fly-in-fly-out.

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I mean ah, people in our program, Neal Young, Vin Morgan others participated in the I mean ah, people in our program, Neal Young, Vin Morgan others participated in the

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Russian traverses Russian traverses

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out of ?Merney? going into Dome C, the French base because they had radars and g.p.s. out of ?Merney? going into Dome C, the French base because they had radars and g.p.s.

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which the Russians didn't have. We've had which the Russians didn't have. We've had

51:19

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a lot more dealings in recent years, very active dealings, with the Chinese and still a lot more dealings in recent years, very active dealings, with the Chinese and still

51:24

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doing that. We started working with the Chinese, doing that. We started working with the Chinese,

51:31

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Chinese students out here in about 1979 and then Chinese glaciologists in '82 I Chinese students out here in about 1979 and then Chinese glaciologists in '82 I

51:38

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think, started wintering. [IM] So in more recent years there are think, started wintering. [IM] So in more recent years there are

51:45

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visits to the Russian and the Chinese and the ?Indian? bases etc but back in the visits to the Russian and the Chinese and the ?Indian? bases etc but back in the

51:52

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'60s and '70s were you ever asked to, I guess, provide reports on activities '60s and '70s were you ever asked to, I guess, provide reports on activities

51:60

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nations back to the Australian Antarctic Division equivalent or did they just not exist? [IA] I wasn't. The Station Leaders might nations back to the Australian Antarctic Division equivalent or did they just not exist? [IA] I wasn't. The Station Leaders might

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have been. [IM] Speaking of Station Leaders, so you've been around have been. [IM] Speaking of Station Leaders, so you've been around

52:14

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for for

52:14

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a long time, in your, in your considered opinion, [IA] I count in terms of Directors, I've a long time, in your, in your considered opinion, [IA] I count in terms of Directors, I've

52:21

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got 9 Directors under my wing. [IM] 9 Directors. What, who were the standout Directors and who were got 9 Directors under my wing. [IM] 9 Directors. What, who were the standout Directors and who were

52:27

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the standout Station Leaders over those years and what made them stand out?. the standout Station Leaders over those years and what made them stand out?.

52:34

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[IA] We were talking about this the other night. And I think [IA] We were talking about this the other night. And I think

52:42

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interestingly I think the best Director that I worked under was probably Rex Moncur. interestingly I think the best Director that I worked under was probably Rex Moncur.

52:46

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He was certainly not the most forceful or anything but when you look back He was certainly not the most forceful or anything but when you look back

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at how he worked and what he did, ah, he had people's interests at heart, he really was at how he worked and what he did, ah, he had people's interests at heart, he really was

52:59

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quite quite

52:59

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a strong negotiator when he went to Canberra and he listened to people. Um, Brian a strong negotiator when he went to Canberra and he listened to people. Um, Brian

53:09

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Rofe I think had the trappings of being Rofe I think had the trappings of being

53:13

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a very good Director. He died quite shortly after he took his job so a very good Director. He died quite shortly after he took his job so

53:19

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I don't think he ever got to prove it. [pause] I think Ray Garrod was I don't think he ever got to prove it. [pause] I think Ray Garrod was

53:27

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a guy that was fairly quiet but always a guy that was fairly quiet but always

53:30

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a gentleman and listened, [pause] again a bit the old school. a gentleman and listened, [pause] again a bit the old school.

53:42

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Jim Bleasel was a different mould. Jim Bleasel was a different mould.

53:52

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Not really cut out to be public servant. [IM] Why was that? [IA] He was much better as Not really cut out to be public servant. [IM] Why was that? [IA] He was much better as

53:58

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a businessman. [IM] But did that make him a businessman. [IM] But did that make him

54:01

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a good negotiator for Antarctic interests or not? [IA] Probably but probably a good negotiator for Antarctic interests or not? [IA] Probably but probably

54:08

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not in the way the public service not in the way the public service

54:10

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approved. [long pause] [IM] What about the Station Leaders? Were there standout Station Leaders? approved. [long pause] [IM] What about the Station Leaders? Were there standout Station Leaders?

54:23

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Lem Macey. Ah.. [IM] What were the qualities Lem Macey. Ah.. [IM] What were the qualities

54:33

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[IA] Walrus moustache and mutton chops. I don't know, he just, he just came [IA] Walrus moustache and mutton chops. I don't know, he just, he just came

54:40

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across as someone who was on your side, someone who always wanted to help you across as someone who was on your side, someone who always wanted to help you

54:45

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many. I didn't actually, I spent summers working there when Lem was there, I never many. I didn't actually, I spent summers working there when Lem was there, I never

54:53

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spent winter service in camp. There were some pretty appalling ones, I won't name them. spent winter service in camp. There were some pretty appalling ones, I won't name them.

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Skein. [long pause] Now he's one that Skein. [long pause] Now he's one that

55:11

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jumps straight in the mind for some reason. [IM] You mentioned when you first jumps straight in the mind for some reason. [IM] You mentioned when you first

55:21

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What are the, what are the major things that working in the Antarctica in this period has taught you or What are the, what are the major things that working in the Antarctica in this period has taught you or

55:27

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given you, that you think has altered your life? [IA] Oh, it's great to work with given you, that you think has altered your life? [IA] Oh, it's great to work with

55:32

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a fine body of men. [IM] You've been reading the manual haven't you. a fine body of men. [IM] You've been reading the manual haven't you.

55:39

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[IA] No, the psych test. Ah, [long pause] patience. [IA] No, the psych test. Ah, [long pause] patience.

55:51

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Stuck in sea ice often enough to know it's not much point in banging your head and you just gotta Stuck in sea ice often enough to know it's not much point in banging your head and you just gotta

55:58

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wait till conditions improve, and the same with weather. You can't fight nature. wait till conditions improve, and the same with weather. You can't fight nature.

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You've got to be ready to do things when the opportunity arises. You've got to be ready to do things when the opportunity arises.

56:14

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Having Having

56:15

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a strong team that you can trust is very important and a strong team that you can trust is very important and

56:22

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with very few exceptions I've had that. I think in general we pick our people reasonably with very few exceptions I've had that. I think in general we pick our people reasonably

56:27

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well, or maybe the environment inspires them and by the environment I don't just mean the well, or maybe the environment inspires them and by the environment I don't just mean the

56:33

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natural environment I mean the people they're working with and things. It does, you, you come away natural environment I mean the people they're working with and things. It does, you, you come away

56:40

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feel more and more RSL feel more and more RSL

56:44

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like when we have our reunions now. It's interesting, people seem to, for the 1st like when we have our reunions now. It's interesting, people seem to, for the 1st

56:50

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10-15 years, up to one or 2 years after you meet up, and then 10-15 years, up to one or 2 years after you meet up, and then

56:58

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drifts again as people start getting older they refind their ex-wintering drifts again as people start getting older they refind their ex-wintering

57:03

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buddies and it gets stronger. buddies and it gets stronger.

57:10

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Do you still maintain a number friendships from the '60s and '70s? [IA] Oh yeah.. Do you still maintain a number friendships from the '60s and '70s? [IA] Oh yeah..

57:18

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Not day to day contact by any means but, you know, regular contact. I mean I guess Not day to day contact by any means but, you know, regular contact. I mean I guess

57:24

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work in this field's been, I've enjoyed it. I've made many many international friends too. work in this field's been, I've enjoyed it. I've made many many international friends too.

57:30

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You sit on You sit on

57:31

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a number of international committees as well. [IA] Yeah well I mean I think one of my proudest a number of international committees as well. [IA] Yeah well I mean I think one of my proudest

57:37

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achievements was pulling off the International Polar Year. I mean that ended up being achievements was pulling off the International Polar Year. I mean that ended up being

57:43

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over 200 projects with something like 50,000 scientists from 60 different over 200 projects with something like 50,000 scientists from 60 different

57:49

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countries. [IM] And what was your role in that? [IA] I countries. [IM] And what was your role in that? [IA] I

57:56

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was the chair of the Oversight Committee that endorsed the projects, was the chair of the Oversight Committee that endorsed the projects,

58:02

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oversaw the progress, tried to bring programs together to make different programs oversaw the progress, tried to bring programs together to make different programs

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[IM] working too [IA] Yeah, we, there's lots of others involved in that too but, you know, I sort of [IM] working too [IA] Yeah, we, there's lots of others involved in that too but, you know, I sort of

58:17

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in a way I had a, one of the prime roles in doing that. [IM] Are there any other in a way I had a, one of the prime roles in doing that. [IM] Are there any other

58:23

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comments you'd like to make about your time down south? [pause] . Gotcha... comments you'd like to make about your time down south? [pause] . Gotcha...

58:31

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There probably are, I can't think at the moment though where to start. [laughs] I mean I think you've probably ah There probably are, I can't think at the moment though where to start. [laughs] I mean I think you've probably ah

58:39

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what haven't I covered what haven't I covered

58:49

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The last thing I'd like The last thing I'd like

58:50

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like to ask you is more recently you've been making trips down to Antarctica by aircraft um, to Casey or with tourist like to ask you is more recently you've been making trips down to Antarctica by aircraft um, to Casey or with tourist

58:58

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organisations. How do you find that? not actually being on the ground but being, I guess organisations. How do you find that? not actually being on the ground but being, I guess

59:04

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a little bit remote from it maybe. [IA] I only made 2 on the 319 and the 1st one didn't really a little bit remote from it maybe. [IA] I only made 2 on the 319 and the 1st one didn't really

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count in a way, I was accompanying count in a way, I was accompanying

59:13

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a group of pollies down there, being taken down to see what wonderful job we do. a group of pollies down there, being taken down to see what wonderful job we do.

59:19

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What did surprise me at that stage was that I get from Hobart to Casey and back What did surprise me at that stage was that I get from Hobart to Casey and back

59:24

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quicker than I get from Hobart to Canberra and back. That was before Virgin put on direct quicker than I get from Hobart to Canberra and back. That was before Virgin put on direct

59:30

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flight into Canberra. Ah, that was an interesting experience but my 2nd flight into Canberra. Ah, that was an interesting experience but my 2nd

59:36

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trip to [pause] Wilkens was to do trip to [pause] Wilkens was to do

59:43

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a survey of the runway and reassess the glaciological conditions there and that was a survey of the runway and reassess the glaciological conditions there and that was

59:47

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a little bit more serious. I was only there for about 4-5 days, it was only a little bit more serious. I was only there for about 4-5 days, it was only

59:54

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less than a week before I was about to go on long service leave before retirement. less than a week before I was about to go on long service leave before retirement.

1:00:01

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It was interesting to work with the guys at Wilkins. I didn't even go down to Casey I It was interesting to work with the guys at Wilkins. I didn't even go down to Casey I

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just worked at Wilkins for a while and there are serious problems with maintaining that airstrip just worked at Wilkins for a while and there are serious problems with maintaining that airstrip

1:00:10

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and, and I think, I think and, and I think, I think

1:00:13

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a different solution's going to need to be found there. [IM] Do you have any ideas as to what that a different solution's going to need to be found there. [IM] Do you have any ideas as to what that

1:00:18

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solution may entail? [IA] I don't think it's solution may entail? [IA] I don't think it's

1:00:22

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sustainable to run a blue ice runway on the ?Wall Dome? [IM] So if you had sustainable to run a blue ice runway on the ?Wall Dome? [IM] So if you had

1:00:29

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unlimited resources and power what would be your ideal setup? [IA] They're probably going to need skied aircraft unlimited resources and power what would be your ideal setup? [IA] They're probably going to need skied aircraft

1:00:39

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or else take over someone else's base, or, or the ideal if you really got or else take over someone else's base, or, or the ideal if you really got

1:00:44

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money is a money is a

1:00:46

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a rock strip at Davis. [IM] So you mentioned that you'd retired from the a rock strip at Davis. [IM] So you mentioned that you'd retired from the

1:00:53

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Australian Antarctic Division after a number of years of Australian Antarctic Division after a number of years of

1:00:56

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service, what have you done with your time since then? How do you maintain [missing words] service, what have you done with your time since then? How do you maintain [missing words]

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What have I done? Much the same! Um, I'm tied up as a What have I done? Much the same! Um, I'm tied up as a

1:01:10

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lead author in the 5th Inter-Governmental lead author in the 5th Inter-Governmental

1:01:13

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Panel on Climate Change Assessment, I've been involved in a, Panel on Climate Change Assessment, I've been involved in a,

1:01:20

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the President of a thing called International Association of Cryospheric Sciences the President of a thing called International Association of Cryospheric Sciences

1:01:24

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which is ice and snow science, and that was part of which is ice and snow science, and that was part of

1:01:29

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a big meeting in Melbourne in June-July 3 and a big meeting in Melbourne in June-July 3 and

1:01:34

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a half thousand people so organizing that kept me moderately busy, ah, I've still got a half thousand people so organizing that kept me moderately busy, ah, I've still got

1:01:43

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things coming out with the IPY, in fact we're running out an IPY meeting in things coming out with the IPY, in fact we're running out an IPY meeting in

1:01:47

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Montreal early next year which'll be about 2000 people. Ahh, I'm doing Montreal early next year which'll be about 2000 people. Ahh, I'm doing

1:01:53

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a few things for the Academy of Science to do with Mawson's centenary, a few things for the Academy of Science to do with Mawson's centenary,

1:02:00

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bibs and bobs. [IM] So you really haven't retired at all. [IA] Oh I sometimes take bibs and bobs. [IM] So you really haven't retired at all. [IA] Oh I sometimes take

1:02:05

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a day off and it's not always the weekend. [IM] OK. And you're still active in the University of Tasmania a day off and it's not always the weekend. [IM] OK. And you're still active in the University of Tasmania

1:02:11

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I'm still doing stuff for the ?COCs? I'm still doing stuff for the ?COCs?

1:02:13

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consultancy work, yeah. [IM] Do you think you'll go back down south Ian? [IA] Probably. consultancy work, yeah. [IM] Do you think you'll go back down south Ian? [IA] Probably.

1:02:21

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[IM] In what sort of capacity? [IA] Oh, not completely sure, see how things go, one way or [IM] In what sort of capacity? [IA] Oh, not completely sure, see how things go, one way or

1:02:28

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another. [IM] Alright, we might stop there. [IA] Ok. another. [IM] Alright, we might stop there. [IA] Ok.

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Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)

Choose A Speaker
(only necessary when speaker changes)