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So Ingrid McGaughey, on the 18th of August 2011, with Dick Thompson just So Ingrid McGaughey, on the 18th of August 2011, with Dick Thompson just
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a slightly unexpected interruption, by the cleaners who came an hour and a slightly unexpected interruption, by the cleaners who came an hour and
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a half  early.  So Dick we were talking about Lem Macey and the new position that you a half  early.  So Dick we were talking about Lem Macey and the new position that you
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created at the division. [Dick] Yes, now Lem, the time Lem commenced there, he looked after created at the division. [Dick] Yes, now Lem, the time Lem commenced there, he looked after
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all the technical matters of any kind at all, even though his specialty was in radio. all the technical matters of any kind at all, even though his specialty was in radio.
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He was,  ah he was very competent, He was,  ah he was very competent,
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and er, a  and er, a 
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delightful person to work with, and I mentioned again that we became close and firm delightful person to work with, and I mentioned again that we became close and firm
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friends. When er... Lem's friends. When er... Lem's
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heart and soul was in Antarctica and ah, and exploration matters and when heart and soul was in Antarctica and ah, and exploration matters and when
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we formed the first party to go to Mawson, he was we formed the first party to go to Mawson, he was
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of course the number one selection,  Bob Dovers, when I say the number one, Bob Dovers of course the number one selection,  Bob Dovers, when I say the number one, Bob Dovers
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was the person who was the leader-in-waiting for it, there was no doubt about that and so was the person who was the leader-in-waiting for it, there was no doubt about that and so
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Lem became second in charge, radio supervisor Lem became second in charge, radio supervisor
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and technical superintendent of the pioneer and technical superintendent of the pioneer
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party at Mawson. We had one only, one other operator, that was Bill party at Mawson. We had one only, one other operator, that was Bill
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Storer, who was an outstanding radio operator,  and he did most of the operating and whilst Storer, who was an outstanding radio operator,  and he did most of the operating and whilst
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Lem ran everything else, so so Lem was a great Lem ran everything else, so so Lem was a great
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character. So when he came back from Mawson, his permanent job was in the character. So when he came back from Mawson, his permanent job was in the
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office and he remained there, and then after I left the division he went back south office and he remained there, and then after I left the division he went back south
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again many times as Officer In Charge, or Leader of Expeditions to Mawson. again many times as Officer In Charge, or Leader of Expeditions to Mawson.
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But he was an outstanding person, But he was an outstanding person,
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a great contributor, thoughtful,  easy to, you know, easy to work with, a great contributor, thoughtful,  easy to, you know, easy to work with,
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a delightful  a delightful 
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man.   [Ingrid] many of the names we've been talking about, are known in ANARE history, but also having man.   [Ingrid] many of the names we've been talking about, are known in ANARE history, but also having
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been to Mawson there are many features like Mount Storer and other features.  Did you been to Mawson there are many features like Mount Storer and other features.  Did you
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have any areas named after yourself? [Dick] Thompson Peak.   I have any areas named after yourself? [Dick] Thompson Peak.   I
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don't know where it is,  if, if I, if you look up Google I'll find it, and my wife, my  don't know where it is,  if, if I, if you look up Google I'll find it, and my wife, my 
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wife has some islets named after her way up wife has some islets named after her way up
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in Enderby Land, in 1958,  on the 15th of January 1958 in Enderby Land, in 1958,  on the 15th of January 1958
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and I was out there with the surveyor on these hunks of small and I was out there with the surveyor on these hunks of small
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islets and with islets and with
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the great big mountain on the shore, which ?Cooks? call Mount Riisa-Larson after one of the  the great big mountain on the shore, which ?Cooks? call Mount Riisa-Larson after one of the 
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Norwegians from, whalers from 1938, and actually he's Norwegians from, whalers from 1938, and actually he's
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an aviator. Ah, and um so I came back to the radio an aviator. Ah, and um so I came back to the radio
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operator, George Madsen says " Dick, Dick, Dick,  Sheelagh's had operator, George Madsen says " Dick, Dick, Dick,  Sheelagh's had
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a baby". So, I,  we sorted  that out by sending signals back because, as far as I was concerned  a baby". So, I,  we sorted  that out by sending signals back because, as far as I was concerned 
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it shouldn't have happened.  But really the, it all happened because a) I, I should it shouldn't have happened.  But really the, it all happened because a) I, I should
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have been back home but a)we got stuck in the ice and b) the baby was four weeks have been back home but a)we got stuck in the ice and b) the baby was four weeks
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premature. So yes, S-H-double EE-L-A-G-H Islets and you can find  premature. So yes, S-H-double EE-L-A-G-H Islets and you can find 
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those in Google and Thompson Peak, it was not a those in Google and Thompson Peak, it was not a
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matter that concerned me.  I never thought about all those things when I was there.  [Ingrid] So what was matter that concerned me.  I never thought about all those things when I was there.  [Ingrid] So what was
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the process for naming places?  [Dick] Oh, really I have no idea,  there is a, there is a  the process for naming places?  [Dick] Oh, really I have no idea,  there is a, there is a 
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an organization called the Antarctic Place Names Committee. It's probably is an organization called the Antarctic Place Names Committee. It's probably is
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still being called the Australian Antarctic Place Names Committee,  because of course still being called the Australian Antarctic Place Names Committee,  because of course
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we're only naming places in Australian Antarctic Territory. Over there we're only naming places in Australian Antarctic Territory. Over there
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down below, on what's now called the Antarctic Peninsula, which in my day was  down below, on what's now called the Antarctic Peninsula, which in my day was 
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called Graham Land, we have Mount Kisco dog food for example, [laughter] [Ingrid] And so the called Graham Land, we have Mount Kisco dog food for example, [laughter] [Ingrid] And so the
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recommendation for the names, was that through the OIC, or yourself or Phil?  recommendation for the names, was that through the OIC, or yourself or Phil? 
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My own view is, this would have been the fact of, of the director, ah going through My own view is, this would have been the fact of, of the director, ah going through
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all of the logs of the exploration of the surveying work, of the notable features all of the logs of the exploration of the surveying work, of the notable features
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and peaks, and, and, and just naming that, sometimes we and peaks, and, and, and just naming that, sometimes we
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used quite incorrect use of the term, the Norwegian terms for example, used quite incorrect use of the term, the Norwegian terms for example,
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up about sixty miles west of Mawson, there's up about sixty miles west of Mawson, there's
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a place called Bretangan.  Now 'bretangan' means 'glacier tongue' a place called Bretangan.  Now 'bretangan' means 'glacier tongue'
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in Norwegian, but to all the Australians it's was Bretangan, so that's become the   in Norwegian, but to all the Australians it's was Bretangan, so that's become the  
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place name. The Norwegians, I mentioned before,  back in 1938, I think it was place name. The Norwegians, I mentioned before,  back in 1938, I think it was
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a whale factory ship cruised around the edge of the ice and it had Riiser-Larsen on a whale factory ship cruised around the edge of the ice and it had Riiser-Larsen on
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board who was board who was
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a noted Norwegian aviator, and, so, er they just a noted Norwegian aviator, and, so, er they just
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marked on the thing, this little thing sticking up,  Glacier marked on the thing, this little thing sticking up,  Glacier
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Bretung.  B R E is glacier, and tangan is tongue, so, but to all Australians  Bretung.  B R E is glacier, and tangan is tongue, so, but to all Australians 
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it was Bretangan, and people would call it the Bretangan Glacier it was Bretangan, and people would call it the Bretangan Glacier
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?your tongue? or ?Bretung?, but, oddly enough that expedition had women on board, the wives of the owners of ?your tongue? or ?Bretung?, but, oddly enough that expedition had women on board, the wives of the owners of
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the ship and the officers and so on,  like that.  And down there, outside Davis you have the ship and the officers and so on,  like that.  And down there, outside Davis you have
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'De Fire Damen Banken' - The Four Ladies' Bank. And when you look at it so you from 'De Fire Damen Banken' - The Four Ladies' Bank. And when you look at it so you from
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Davis, it's just like  Davis, it's just like 
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a picket fence, you can't see the horizon,  but the ice bergs are all grounded there a picket fence, you can't see the horizon,  but the ice bergs are all grounded there
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because the Four Ladies' Bank, named by Riiser- because the Four Ladies' Bank, named by Riiser-
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Larsen and Company in 1938.  [Ingrid] So you  were obviously involved in Larsen and Company in 1938.  [Ingrid] So you  were obviously involved in
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a lot of early Antarctic exploration, or coastal exploration.  Can you tell me a lot of early Antarctic exploration, or coastal exploration.  Can you tell me
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a little bit about that.  How you would do the exploration process and decide where to  a little bit about that.  How you would do the exploration process and decide where to 
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go?  [Dick] Well, Phil Law normally had go?  [Dick] Well, Phil Law normally had
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a program of what he wanted to do,  and when we got the aircraft a program of what he wanted to do,  and when we got the aircraft
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we the, the beavers,  were fitted the tri-metricon cameras, that means you've got poking  we the, the beavers,  were fitted the tri-metricon cameras, that means you've got poking 
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the three different ways, and we would sail down,  so we had the three different ways, and we would sail down,  so we had
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a program of photographing the coastline.  We would sail to  a program of photographing the coastline.  We would sail to 
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a certain point, find ourselves a large flow of about a certain point, find ourselves a large flow of about
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a mile long or something like that, tie up alongside that, swing out the beaver and a mile long or something like that, tie up alongside that, swing out the beaver and
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get the crew.  Then the one man fire brigade got ashore get the crew.  Then the one man fire brigade got ashore
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and that was a fellow who was carrying, on skis, and with a rucksack with and that was a fellow who was carrying, on skis, and with a rucksack with
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a fire extinguisher and an axe and various other things, that was me, and I a fire extinguisher and an axe and various other things, that was me, and I
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would mark out with dyes. I was an experienced  skier and so I was on would mark out with dyes. I was an experienced  skier and so I was on
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cross-country skis and I would go up this ice. I was marking out with dyes, the rough levels of a run way  cross-country skis and I would go up this ice. I was marking out with dyes, the rough levels of a run way 
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with distances of, so they'd know how many metres,  to each big blob of dye I left on the  with distances of, so they'd know how many metres,  to each big blob of dye I left on the 
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ice and then, the aircraft would take off with me standing there ready to ice and then, the aircraft would take off with me standing there ready to
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ski to their assistance should they crash, and so, and  I'd be there when I landed ski to their assistance should they crash, and so, and  I'd be there when I landed
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back.  So that was one method, the other way was, of course, getting an astro fix back.  So that was one method, the other way was, of course, getting an astro fix
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on any piece of rock or islet which had on any piece of rock or islet which had
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a rocky face that we could land on.   The coastline of Antarctica when we first went a rocky face that we could land on.   The coastline of Antarctica when we first went
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there in 1950 the Australian Territory was largely a  there in 1950 the Australian Territory was largely a 
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dotted line, because it's largely ice cliffs, low ice cliffs and, ah, which dotted line, because it's largely ice cliffs, low ice cliffs and, ah, which
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move.  So the point is, to try to tie these together by virtue of getting move.  So the point is, to try to tie these together by virtue of getting
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astro fixes on the various exposed rock.  So that was my job of getting astro fixes on the various exposed rock.  So that was my job of getting
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out a geophysicist with their gear, ashore in those places, by a boat or out a geophysicist with their gear, ashore in those places, by a boat or
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a pontoon, or a raft or any other kind.  And they'd do that a pontoon, or a raft or any other kind.  And they'd do that
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with me shouting "Hurry up! hurry up!"  all the time with me shouting "Hurry up! hurry up!"  all the time
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in case the weather changed and that was part of my job.  [Ingrid] Can you tell me in case the weather changed and that was part of my job.  [Ingrid] Can you tell me
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a little bit about the aircraft you carried on the ship?  [Dick] Well the first, in Kista Dan a little bit about the aircraft you carried on the ship?  [Dick] Well the first, in Kista Dan
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going down first, we carried two Auster going down first, we carried two Auster
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aircraft and they had been used by the Norwegian-British-Swedish expedition which  aircraft and they had been used by the Norwegian-British-Swedish expedition which 
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Phil been on, and he bought those after they came back, and they were bought by the Phil been on, and he bought those after they came back, and they were bought by the
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Australian Air Force, Royal Australian Air Force. Ah, and um, there were 2 pilots,  Doug Leckie Australian Air Force, Royal Australian Air Force. Ah, and um, there were 2 pilots,  Doug Leckie
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the flight attendant in charge, ah, and Ray Seaver, and Ray Seaver had been flying the flight attendant in charge, ah, and Ray Seaver, and Ray Seaver had been flying
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fighter aircraft in Korea, and so his next post was to fly this Austers, which were fighter aircraft in Korea, and so his next post was to fly this Austers, which were
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a very flimsy type of aircraft, and on our approach to Mawson they, ah, we had a very flimsy type of aircraft, and on our approach to Mawson they, ah, we had
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so much fast ice around, we could take off anywhere and uh Phil, with Doug Leckie, so much fast ice around, we could take off anywhere and uh Phil, with Doug Leckie,
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usually piloting, flew all up and down the coast,  looking, they were looking for Horseshoe Harbour and making  usually piloting, flew all up and down the coast,  looking, they were looking for Horseshoe Harbour and making 
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sure we could find it.  And the time we were at Mawson sure we could find it.  And the time we were at Mawson
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a great deal of flying was on. Ah, it wasn't serious, um mapping type a great deal of flying was on. Ah, it wasn't serious, um mapping type
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flying, it was Phil would take  flying, it was Phil would take 
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photographs ?to know? where we were.  One of those aircraft was destroyed ah on, on photographs ?to know? where we were.  One of those aircraft was destroyed ah on, on
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the way home, the other one was repaired and went back the way home, the other one was repaired and went back
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again, as the 2nd aircraft to the beavers, the beavers were Canadian De Havilland  again, as the 2nd aircraft to the beavers, the beavers were Canadian De Havilland 
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beaver,  was a Canadian built aircraft, beaver,  was a Canadian built aircraft,
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a very, very good  aircraft indeed and they did sterling work ah, in the a very, very good  aircraft indeed and they did sterling work ah, in the
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event they all became casualties of the wind in those places.  We did build an event they all became casualties of the wind in those places.  We did build an
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aircraft hangar at Mawson, ah, the er, and we aircraft hangar at Mawson, ah, the er, and we
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the Air Force er technical people were supposed the Air Force er technical people were supposed
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to know all about it and to build it, but they decided they didn't want to do that to know all about it and to build it, but they decided they didn't want to do that
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kind of work when we got there, so, ah I was largely the person who did the aerial work of kind of work when we got there, so, ah I was largely the person who did the aerial work of
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shinning up the beams and putting the thing together like shinning up the beams and putting the thing together like
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a meccano set, about 20 foot above the ground.  The other chap, working with me was a a meccano set, about 20 foot above the ground.  The other chap, working with me was a
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fellow called John Hollingshead who was the radio supervisor for that year. So we did all fellow called John Hollingshead who was the radio supervisor for that year. So we did all
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the external construction work of of of the Mawson hangar. [Ingrid]  Which is still there?  [Dick] yes the external construction work of of of the Mawson hangar. [Ingrid]  Which is still there?  [Dick] yes
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You mentioned that the 3rd, one of the initial two Austers was destroyed on the trip You mentioned that the 3rd, one of the initial two Austers was destroyed on the trip
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back home what happened?  [Dick] In this big storm I mentioned, in Prince Bay back home what happened?  [Dick] In this big storm I mentioned, in Prince Bay
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it got blown away, all that was left were the,  were the floats.  [Ingrid] So it was blown away off the it got blown away, all that was left were the,  were the floats.  [Ingrid] So it was blown away off the
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deck of the ship? [Dick] Totally blown, tot...blown well an aircraft is deck of the ship? [Dick] Totally blown, tot...blown well an aircraft is
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a flying thing, it's got wings like that, and the wind got underneath it and just a flying thing, it's got wings like that, and the wind got underneath it and just
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because it's because it's
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a very light aircraft it's only made of rag and bone.  [Ingrid] Yep so when you were talking a very light aircraft it's only made of rag and bone.  [Ingrid] Yep so when you were talking
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about the big storm, how many degrees inclination are we talking about the ship about the big storm, how many degrees inclination are we talking about the ship
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rolling from side to side?  [Dick] Well we're talking at 50 and 60, yes.  [Ingrid] Yes huge.  Were you involved in rolling from side to side?  [Dick] Well we're talking at 50 and 60, yes.  [Ingrid] Yes huge.  Were you involved in
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the establishment of Davis Station? [Dick] mmm [Ingrid] Were you involved?  [Dick]  Yes  I was yes, mmm [Ingrid] Can the establishment of Davis Station? [Dick] mmm [Ingrid] Were you involved?  [Dick]  Yes  I was yes, mmm [Ingrid] Can
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you tell me a little bit about that?  [Dick] Oh you know, we gave it the name of it you tell me a little bit about that?  [Dick] Oh you know, we gave it the name of it
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the banana belt then because it was so mild compared to Mawson  and because you the banana belt then because it was so mild compared to Mawson  and because you
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didn't have that big ridge behind you, you didn't get the katabatic winds that blew didn't have that big ridge behind you, you didn't get the katabatic winds that blew
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every day and that was ah, um I thought that Davis was an interesting place. We'd, we'd explored it every day and that was ah, um I thought that Davis was an interesting place. We'd, we'd explored it
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earlier, the prev.. the  year, year before in, in in um, and  decided it was sort it was earlier, the prev.. the  year, year before in, in in um, and  decided it was sort it was
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a good place for it so the uh, we were always in good weather there, we were you know a good place for it so the uh, we were always in good weather there, we were you know
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when I was there  it was when I was there  it was
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a good landing circumstances we were able to use ducks, ah and so it was not a good landing circumstances we were able to use ducks, ah and so it was not
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a difficult operation, not a difficult operation at all.  And um, ah the, yes. a difficult operation, not a difficult operation at all.  And um, ah the, yes.
13:19

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[Ingrid] Were you involved with the initial setting up of the huts there?  [Dick] Yes I was, ah we'd we'd had the  [Ingrid] Were you involved with the initial setting up of the huts there?  [Dick] Yes I was, ah we'd we'd had the 
13:25

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experience of putting together at Mawson the ?explastic? huts and they're very experience of putting together at Mawson the ?explastic? huts and they're very
13:30

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good indeed. This is indicative of the thinking that used to go on, back in Australia good indeed. This is indicative of the thinking that used to go on, back in Australia
13:37

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before hand, as I mentioned, these were simple days, we had no power, we had no resources, before hand, as I mentioned, these were simple days, we had no power, we had no resources,
13:41

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all done with your own ingenuity but we knew, the lad, wherever we'd go there all done with your own ingenuity but we knew, the lad, wherever we'd go there
13:48

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could be uneven land so we bought could be uneven land so we bought
13:51

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a lot of railway sleepers, that we sawed them up at Tottenham, and drilled holes in a lot of railway sleepers, that we sawed them up at Tottenham, and drilled holes in
13:58

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them with handheld drills, so when we got down there,  to Mawson in the first place them with handheld drills, so when we got down there,  to Mawson in the first place
14:03

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and the other places, we got the surveyor to give us the levels and then we'd and the other places, we got the surveyor to give us the levels and then we'd
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get these pieces of railway sleeper, each about ah 4 foot long and  ah we'd have get these pieces of railway sleeper, each about ah 4 foot long and  ah we'd have
14:17

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drilled holes through them, then we using a rock drill, a warsop, W-A-R-S-O-P  drilled holes through them, then we using a rock drill, a warsop, W-A-R-S-O-P 
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a warsop rock drill, just like an outboard motorboat, outboard motor, ah  we'd drill holes straight down a warsop rock drill, just like an outboard motorboat, outboard motor, ah  we'd drill holes straight down
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into the rock.  We'd then put 1,2,3 sleepers on board to get the level we want, drop into the rock.  We'd then put 1,2,3 sleepers on board to get the level we want, drop
14:36

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a great big bolt down through those holes and into the ah, and then fill a great big bolt down through those holes and into the ah, and then fill
14:43

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up with malted sulphur and it froze and that that froze the, it didn't freeze, it solidified up with malted sulphur and it froze and that that froze the, it didn't freeze, it solidified
14:50

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and held that bolt vertical.  The bolt had screws on top so I just dropped it.  Put the and held that bolt vertical.  The bolt had screws on top so I just dropped it.  Put the
14:56

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big beams on which the hut was to be built big beams on which the hut was to be built
14:59

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along, dropped it on top of that bolt and put a big washer and along, dropped it on top of that bolt and put a big washer and
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a big nut and bolt and screwed it down.  Then we put up the four sides and the flat a big nut and bolt and screwed it down.  Then we put up the four sides and the flat
15:08

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roof and all went together like roof and all went together like
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a meccano set, easy, marvellous.  [Ingrid] Okay.  It certainly seems that most  of the men were multi a meccano set, easy, marvellous.  [Ingrid] Okay.  It certainly seems that most  of the men were multi
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skilled, they had not only their own job but also actively participated in building skilled, they had not only their own job but also actively participated in building
15:21

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programs and other science programs. Before they went down to the Antarctic did you programs and other science programs. Before they went down to the Antarctic did you
15:26

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have have
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a type of training regime for them?  [Dick] Yes we did.   I was sent in a type of training regime for them?  [Dick] Yes we did.   I was sent in
15:34

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um about uh the early fifty's um about uh the early fifty's
15:41

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on a training course, ah a Public Service Board course, ah and it was up at on a training course, ah a Public Service Board course, ah and it was up at
15:48

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the Army School of Health at Healesville and that's, that's where we, so we had various lectures the Army School of Health at Healesville and that's, that's where we, so we had various lectures
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?t...ing? at  various things and over ?t...ing? at  various things and over
15:57

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one's long life in administration there are various things which in and out.  In one's long life in administration there are various things which in and out.  In
16:04

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those days, this was the early fifty's,  training was the big thing, training was the big word. those days, this was the early fifty's,  training was the big thing, training was the big word.
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People were going to make their People were going to make their
16:11

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career in training, that was the in thing. Ah, you know la... la.. later on we had  career in training, that was the in thing. Ah, you know la... la.. later on we had 
16:18

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organisations and ?m..? and  later on we we had organisations and ?m..? and  later on we we had
16:21

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a critical path method and there's always something new and sooner or later you get a critical path method and there's always something new and sooner or later you get
16:25

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back to where you started.  And I was greatly taken with this idea of, of, of er of training back to where you started.  And I was greatly taken with this idea of, of, of er of training
16:33

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and because we hired the selected people,  with their own skills, and really then we and because we hired the selected people,  with their own skills, and really then we
16:40

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just send them to Tottenham to work. Ah, but so I worked out of training program and that just send them to Tottenham to work. Ah, but so I worked out of training program and that
16:47

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remained as the training program for some time.  Phil, Phil Law with  remained as the training program for some time.  Phil, Phil Law with 
16:52

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his university contacts um, got hold of a lecture theatre at his university contacts um, got hold of a lecture theatre at
16:57

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a time when the university wasn't sitting and I gave a series of lectures over a time when the university wasn't sitting and I gave a series of lectures over
17:03

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a week about everything under the sun including the operations manual, the food, a week about everything under the sun including the operations manual, the food,
17:08

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the clothing,  when you're on the clothing,  when you're on
17:09

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a ship don't stand in on ladders or companion ways or in doorways. Um, and so we a ship don't stand in on ladders or companion ways or in doorways. Um, and so we
17:16

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would the doctor would have to have some knowledge of dentistry so  I worked would the doctor would have to have some knowledge of dentistry so  I worked
17:23

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out a program we'd send him off to the dental hospital. Then we had to have 2 chaps out a program we'd send him off to the dental hospital. Then we had to have 2 chaps
17:28

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to be the doctor's assistant should you have um anesthetics required, so we sent to be the doctor's assistant should you have um anesthetics required, so we sent
17:33

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them off to observe operations for Melbourne. Um, the ba.., the cook them off to observe operations for Melbourne. Um, the ba.., the cook
17:41

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is a cook, a baker is  is a cook, a baker is 
17:42

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a different trade,  if you're going to do bread so we sent the cook off to do a different trade,  if you're going to do bread so we sent the cook off to do
17:47

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a baking course.  Uh, the diesel mechanic, if he had no electrics, off he a baking course.  Uh, the diesel mechanic, if he had no electrics, off he
17:54

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I sent him to another place to do a course in electrics or in welding or whatever was I sent him to another place to do a course in electrics or in welding or whatever was
17:60

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required. So all of those people they had, I had this program of work,  for everyone required. So all of those people they had, I had this program of work,  for everyone
18:08

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and then on the last day of our formal university we got,  take them down to Port and then on the last day of our formal university we got,  take them down to Port
18:14

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Melbourne where we would do an exercise in pontoons and landing from ducks and Melbourne where we would do an exercise in pontoons and landing from ducks and
18:20

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shooting rockets and so on, and about the most used shooting rockets and so on, and about the most used
18:27

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phrase there is all the brand new expeditioners telling me what to do.  "Why don't you do phrase there is all the brand new expeditioners telling me what to do.  "Why don't you do
18:33

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it this way?" [laughter] and so on.  So that was all great fun, everybody liked that, everybody it this way?" [laughter] and so on.  So that was all great fun, everybody liked that, everybody
18:40

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getting very very wet and ducks charging in and out of the water and using the getting very very wet and ducks charging in and out of the water and using the
18:44

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inflatable pontoons and pumping them up and simulating cargo operations.  In fact we inflatable pontoons and pumping them up and simulating cargo operations.  In fact we
18:50

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got, we developed so much expertise with running duck operations that the army used to got, we developed so much expertise with running duck operations that the army used to
18:56

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ask me to go along to help train their duck crews in coming along side ships ask me to go along to help train their duck crews in coming along side ships
19:04

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Was there a component Was there a component
19:05

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of field training as well, looking at knots or safety out in the field?  [Dick]I don't of field training as well, looking at knots or safety out in the field?  [Dick]I don't
19:11

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recall us doing any safety thing.  We did, we did, once again recall us doing any safety thing.  We did, we did, once again
19:14

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my idea because I, I was an active skier and I had my idea because I, I was an active skier and I had
19:18

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a ski lodge at Mount Buller,  and so we started off this business of learning how to a ski lodge at Mount Buller,  and so we started off this business of learning how to
19:24

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live in the snow and how to build an igloo and um so I would take them away to  live in the snow and how to build an igloo and um so I would take them away to 
19:30

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Mount Buller, later on it became Mount Hotham and  I'm I'm think this Mount Buller, later on it became Mount Hotham and  I'm I'm think this
19:34

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a pretty well organized, you'd see, but really I'd show them how to put skis on a pretty well organized, you'd see, but really I'd show them how to put skis on
19:39

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and off, how to how to walk in the snow, how to camp, how to put up and off, how to how to walk in the snow, how to camp, how to put up
19:43

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a tent in the snow that that [mumble] what we, it was mainly the Air Force component a tent in the snow that that [mumble] what we, it was mainly the Air Force component
19:50

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in case they were forced down we'd show these things but um we did in case they were forced down we'd show these things but um we did
19:56

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a g...  as well as we did quite a g...  as well as we did quite
19:60

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a variety of things at Tottenham,  we made our own tents there and um we had this,  once a variety of things at Tottenham,  we made our own tents there and um we had this,  once
20:07

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again Phil Law used again Phil Law used
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a certain kind of cloth, ventile [spelling] V-E-N-T-I-L-E,  ventile cloth a very close woven a certain kind of cloth, ventile [spelling] V-E-N-T-I-L-E,  ventile cloth a very close woven
20:15

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cotton cloth which we used for our outside wind proofs and cotton cloth which we used for our outside wind proofs and
20:19

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a heavier weight for our tents and there they were whether a heavier weight for our tents and there they were whether
20:22

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we'd,  we had, we had the aluminium poles made and they were each so they were a  we'd,  we had, we had the aluminium poles made and they were each so they were a 
20:29

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four sided pyramidal tent . Totally  designed to be lashed up on four sided pyramidal tent . Totally  designed to be lashed up on
20:36

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the sledge fully ready to go as soon as you got to anywhere, one person to grab each pole the sledge fully ready to go as soon as you got to anywhere, one person to grab each pole
20:40

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walk different ways and bang it into the ground. Ah, so we made our own tents, didn't make our own  walk different ways and bang it into the ground. Ah, so we made our own tents, didn't make our own 
20:46

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clothing, built our own huts, um uh did courses in explosives, ah Phil clothing, built our own huts, um uh did courses in explosives, ah Phil
20:54

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What I said earlier, I was Phil's right hand man, I suppose this is right because What I said earlier, I was Phil's right hand man, I suppose this is right because
21:00

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anything needed Phil says " You can run that training course " then he'd say "we anything needed Phil says " You can run that training course " then he'd say "we
21:05

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should do a physical education course and I want you to run that.   Go over to the should do a physical education course and I want you to run that.   Go over to the
21:09

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Y.M.C.A. Y.M.C.A.
21:10

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You know, you do that, ?s...? you can do all that stuff."   Then he decided when You know, you do that, ?s...? you can do all that stuff."   Then he decided when
21:15

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we're going away first that um, we'd needed, if we got we're going away first that um, we'd needed, if we got
21:21

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a wire rope around the screws or rope around the screws we'd have to go over the a wire rope around the screws or rope around the screws we'd have to go over the
21:26

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side and do some diving to clear it and he'd do a diving course.  Then he found out side and do some diving to clear it and he'd do a diving course.  Then he found out
21:30

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that to do a diving course you had to have that to do a diving course you had to have
21:33

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a safety diver with you, somebody else who was trained to do it to be a safety diver with you, somebody else who was trained to do it to be
21:37

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sitting along, on the deck, waiting ready to go over in case you got into trouble so I became sitting along, on the deck, waiting ready to go over in case you got into trouble so I became
21:43

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the diver.  Then we had to do an ex...,  we'd would probably need explosives to the diver.  Then we had to do an ex...,  we'd would probably need explosives to
21:50

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blow up rocks with it, or to  blow up rocks with it, or to 
21:51

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blow up ice to free the ship.  So I did the explosives course with the army. blow up ice to free the ship.  So I did the explosives course with the army.
21:60

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Did you put expeditioners through any other courses, such as being assistant to the Did you put expeditioners through any other courses, such as being assistant to the
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doctor or ..  [Dick] Oh yes, yes [Ingrid] hairdresser?  [Dick]yes we did have these two chaps who doctor or ..  [Dick] Oh yes, yes [Ingrid] hairdresser?  [Dick]yes we did have these two chaps who
22:09

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were the doctor's assistants and you look for were the doctor's assistants and you look for
22:12

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a couple of lively lads, they oddly  enough they used to turn out to be one of the a couple of lively lads, they oddly  enough they used to turn out to be one of the
22:16

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scientists or ah um sometimes the biologists and er scientists or ah um sometimes the biologists and er
22:23

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that there was some of the Met persons seemed to be  like that job but so we weren't that there was some of the Met persons seemed to be  like that job but so we weren't
22:29

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very selective, it was a matter of who was interested and and who the doctor got along well with very selective, it was a matter of who was interested and and who the doctor got along well with
22:35

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off they'd go and work for a month around the hospitals, observing hospitals, one chap off they'd go and work for a month around the hospitals, observing hospitals, one chap
22:40

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said to me, he said,  "I learned how to lance a boil." said to me, he said,  "I learned how to lance a boil."
22:48

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You never hear of boils these days, but they were very common I suppose it was diet, so this, this chap had one on the neck You never hear of boils these days, but they were very common I suppose it was diet, so this, this chap had one on the neck
22:55

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and I said "Did it hurt?" to the bloke "No" he said.[laughing]  Apparently the relief once it's done is and I said "Did it hurt?" to the bloke "No" he said.[laughing]  Apparently the relief once it's done is
23:02

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so much that the stab doesn't do it.  One time I had, my thumb so much that the stab doesn't do it.  One time I had, my thumb
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jammed and I got a very black thumb with a great amount of pain jammed and I got a very black thumb with a great amount of pain
23:16

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and the doctor we had on board at the time was  Graham Bud.   "I'll fix that" he said and he got a, a  and the doctor we had on board at the time was  Graham Bud.   "I'll fix that" he said and he got a, a 
23:22

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paper clip, straightened the paper clip, a pair of pliers, held it over paper clip, straightened the paper clip, a pair of pliers, held it over
23:28

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a cigarette lighter, neither of us smoked,  got someone else's cigarette a cigarette lighter, neither of us smoked,  got someone else's cigarette
23:30

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lighter and went 'bang' like that and out popped the blood and fixed it. [Ingrid]  Dick you were with the lighter and went 'bang' like that and out popped the blood and fixed it. [Ingrid]  Dick you were with the
23:35

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division from 1950 through to 1960 and were obviously an integral part of the early ANARI years division from 1950 through to 1960 and were obviously an integral part of the early ANARI years
23:44

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was it hard to leave the Antarctic Division?  [Dick] Yes it was. I, I went from being an was it hard to leave the Antarctic Division?  [Dick] Yes it was. I, I went from being an
23:50

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active doer active doer
23:52

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and organiser, and manager and runner of things, and organiser, and manager and runner of things,
23:59

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you know, although a lot my work was in the office but you know, although a lot my work was in the office but
24:01

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a great deal of it was outside and ah, to um support a great deal of it was outside and ah, to um support
24:08

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the ????  in a government department in Canberra and where I went to an the ????  in a government department in Canberra and where I went to an
24:12

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office every day and er it was, yes it was. I, I did miss it. [Ingrid] So office every day and er it was, yes it was. I, I did miss it. [Ingrid] So
24:19

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what was the sort of catalyst for you moving  from the division into your new role? what was the sort of catalyst for you moving  from the division into your new role?
24:24

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Well I decided, there were two... the main thing is that there was Well I decided, there were two... the main thing is that there was
24:31

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a decision that they should have an assistant director and the assistant director a decision that they should have an assistant director and the assistant director
24:36

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desirably should be desirably should be
24:38

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a technical person. Ah, but I was told, ....well a technical person. Ah, but I was told, ....well
24:45

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of course you can apply they said and, but you won't get it and that's what happened. of course you can apply they said and, but you won't get it and that's what happened.
24:53

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So uh so I, I that position was out of bounds and at that stage So uh so I, I that position was out of bounds and at that stage
25:01

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So for the next 2 years I was there with assistant director, ah of  a technical So for the next 2 years I was there with assistant director, ah of  a technical
25:08

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frame of mind, and by that by that stage by 1960 I frame of mind, and by that by that stage by 1960 I
25:15

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I had sailed along most of the Australian Antarctic coastline, except the Commonwealth Bay area I had sailed along most of the Australian Antarctic coastline, except the Commonwealth Bay area
25:21

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where I've never never never been, and had  landed in a great number of places and had put where I've never never never been, and had  landed in a great number of places and had put
25:28

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people ashore, had built buildings in a great number of places, had been engaged in people ashore, had built buildings in a great number of places, had been engaged in
25:34

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all the aircraft operations, all the aircraft operations,
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a great number of very hazardous operations and ah sea faring type, and I thought a great number of very hazardous operations and ah sea faring type, and I thought
25:45

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I probably needed to make  I probably needed to make 
25:49

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a career in the public service, which I, at at that stage, had not thought about the a career in the public service, which I, at at that stage, had not thought about the
25:54

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Antarctic Division had become my Antarctic Division had become my
25:55

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life, and so that was it and I decided that it with all life, and so that was it and I decided that it with all
26:02

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all the move of all Commonwealth departments to Canberra I may as well go there  and I did.   [Ingrid]   Did you ever all the move of all Commonwealth departments to Canberra I may as well go there  and I did.   [Ingrid]   Did you ever
26:08

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you have to consider returning to the Antarctic Division? [Dick] Yes I did because I was sounded you have to consider returning to the Antarctic Division? [Dick] Yes I did because I was sounded
26:13

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out by the Department of External Affairs um ah 3 years after out by the Department of External Affairs um ah 3 years after
26:20

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I left there and after Brian Roquefort died and I was  I left there and after Brian Roquefort died and I was 
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sounded out by a, er an officer who ran the Antarctic desk in the sounded out by a, er an officer who ran the Antarctic desk in the
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Foreign Affairs whether I'd be interested in going back as director and ah Foreign Affairs whether I'd be interested in going back as director and ah
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"I'd have to think about it" I said "yes I would" and then the, there was a "I'd have to think about it" I said "yes I would" and then the, there was a
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change of, there was an election, there was a, there wasn't change of, there was an election, there was a, there wasn't
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a change of government, the government stayed to same but they decided to change a change of government, the government stayed to same but they decided to change
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the departments around and so um Foreign Affairs no longer had the control of the Antarctic the departments around and so um Foreign Affairs no longer had the control of the Antarctic
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Division, it went to, I'll call it the Department of Science or some other department Division, it went to, I'll call it the Department of Science or some other department
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where other people who had other interests in who should become the head of the Antarctic where other people who had other interests in who should become the head of the Antarctic
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Division.  [Ingrid] So what were the most valuable skills that you took away from Division.  [Ingrid] So what were the most valuable skills that you took away from
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your time at the Division?  [Dick]  Oh I, I, I your time at the Division?  [Dick]  Oh I, I, I
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believe this business of being believe this business of being
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a complete generalist, being able to, because of the vast a complete generalist, being able to, because of the vast
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numbers of tasks I was given, without any previous background which I learnt numbers of tasks I was given, without any previous background which I learnt
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about, learnt how to do and took about, learnt how to do and took
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a great interest in. The responsibility I was given a great interest in. The responsibility I was given
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at a young enough age and go and do it yourself and run at a young enough age and go and do it yourself and run
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things. That this is the the great variety of experiences of things. That this is the the great variety of experiences of
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and doing it yourself and within, ah within and doing it yourself and within, ah within
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a short time within a short time within
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a few years in Canberra, I was told by the head of my department, the permanent head a few years in Canberra, I was told by the head of my department, the permanent head
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of the department, Sir Alan Westerman to go over and work in other commonwealth departments  of the department, Sir Alan Westerman to go over and work in other commonwealth departments 
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which had just been set up, and I reported  to the new head of that department and I said which had just been set up, and I reported  to the new head of that department and I said
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well what am I here for? He said "You and I are going to start well what am I here for? He said "You and I are going to start
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a new department. I'll do the policy work and you do everything else. You get the a new department. I'll do the policy work and you do everything else. You get the
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accommodation, the furniture, the communications um and start organising the staff and accommodation, the furniture, the communications um and start organising the staff and
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putting them into places and fixing it. So I did that for three, three months and he said you, you, you putting them into places and fixing it. So I did that for three, three months and he said you, you, you
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could have could have
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a very successful career with me and I told him I wasn't interested in the a very successful career with me and I told him I wasn't interested in the
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welfare economics and so ah go back to something operational which is like welfare economics and so ah go back to something operational which is like
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civil aviation was and so ah, so yes, I was the person they could use in civil aviation was and so ah, so yes, I was the person they could use in
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a variety of ways and in civil aviation,  ah  I a variety of ways and in civil aviation,  ah  I
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was sent off to be the acting director of this state or that state, until they was sent off to be the acting director of this state or that state, until they
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decided we want you to take decided we want you to take
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over ah the eastern Australian,  based in Sydney.  [Ingrid] And so what pathway did your over ah the eastern Australian,  based in Sydney.  [Ingrid] And so what pathway did your
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the remainder of your working life take?  [Dick] I suppose [laughter] it's, it's just the remainder of your working life take?  [Dick] I suppose [laughter] it's, it's just
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public service administration, really. [Ingrid] Yep.  [Dick]  I, I. I was sent public service administration, really. [Ingrid] Yep.  [Dick]  I, I. I was sent
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by the government to the Administrative Staff College at Mount by the government to the Administrative Staff College at Mount
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Eliza, it was a 3 month course, and um the government, our our  government in those days Eliza, it was a 3 month course, and um the government, our our  government in those days
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the Commonwealth Government, didn't really send people down there to be educated the Commonwealth Government, didn't really send people down there to be educated
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they sent people down there to show all the rest of the people, what the public service was they sent people down there to show all the rest of the people, what the public service was
29:56

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like, and I was sold that, that was I, so there I was,  um there as like, and I was sold that, that was I, so there I was,  um there as
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part of the upper echelons of the public service, which I, I was.   part of the upper echelons of the public service, which I, I was.  
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I found when I was in civil aviation I just decided to push  ?myself? so I learned to fly. I found when I was in civil aviation I just decided to push  ?myself? so I learned to fly.
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I worked out I could, I could send and receive Morse, I understand that I worked out I could, I could send and receive Morse, I understand that
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I could ?build? the wrong way if necessary, I can't you know,  but I know how to do it, so I could ?build? the wrong way if necessary, I can't you know,  but I know how to do it, so
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I learnt to fly.  [Ingrid] So how old were you when you retired?  [Dick] Pardon?  [Ingrid] How old were I learnt to fly.  [Ingrid] So how old were you when you retired?  [Dick] Pardon?  [Ingrid] How old were
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you when you retired?  [Dick] I retired from the Commonwealth Government when I was 65 you when you retired?  [Dick] I retired from the Commonwealth Government when I was 65
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because that's what the Public Service Act says.  The Public Service Act says,  because that's what the Public Service Act says.  The Public Service Act says, 
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mandates you to retire on the eve of your 65th birthday.  [Ingrid]  And what year was that?  [Dick] That was nineteen eighty  mandates you to retire on the eve of your 65th birthday.  [Ingrid]  And what year was that?  [Dick] That was nineteen eighty 
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nine.  I'd been working since the age of 14 then I was headhunted by the nine.  I'd been working since the age of 14 then I was headhunted by the
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aviation industry and I became the executive director of the Regional aviation industry and I became the executive director of the Regional
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Airlines Association of Australia, which runs all the country airlines.  My main Airlines Association of Australia, which runs all the country airlines.  My main
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role was negotiating with the government,  which I'd just left, so I changed role was negotiating with the government,  which I'd just left, so I changed
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places from being places from being
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a game keeper to being the poacher.  I was negotiating with my former subordinates on a game keeper to being the poacher.  I was negotiating with my former subordinates on
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the other side of the table, on safety regulations and flying matters, and um so the other side of the table, on safety regulations and flying matters, and um so
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then um then um
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I decided after 7 years that, that, that  I'd retire from that and um I decided after 7 years that, that, that  I'd retire from that and um
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I always had this idea  I'd I'd like to become  I always had this idea  I'd I'd like to become 
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a lazy person, then I got headhunted again and I  ended up being an advisor to a lazy person, then I got headhunted again and I  ended up being an advisor to
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Ansett and Qantas, collectively on, technical matters, and then to Qantas again Ansett and Qantas, collectively on, technical matters, and then to Qantas again
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until I retired, at the, finally, at the age of 84. until I retired, at the, finally, at the age of 84.
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[Ingrid] And you're eighty? [Dick] I'll be 87 on Sunday the 21st of August. [Ingrid] Ah [Ingrid] And you're eighty? [Dick] I'll be 87 on Sunday the 21st of August. [Ingrid] Ah
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I guess my final question is, do you still maintain friendships or connections that I guess my final question is, do you still maintain friendships or connections that
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you made during your early years of ANARE?  [Dick]  Oh yes, yes yes yes yes and  had, if I  you made during your early years of ANARE?  [Dick]  Oh yes, yes yes yes yes and  had, if I 
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were living in Melbourne I would be out every month, with the Chelsea pensioner  were living in Melbourne I would be out every month, with the Chelsea pensioner 
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group you know, that, that ah, it's all the people who were there from the fifties, of course group you know, that, that ah, it's all the people who were there from the fifties, of course
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it was when I was there and they're the people I know, and I'm friendly with them it was when I was there and they're the people I know, and I'm friendly with them
32:32

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they send me emails when something's happening and something is on, and so and I go they send me emails when something's happening and something is on, and so and I go
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to funerals down there of those people so I, I've, I'm closely connected with all that, all that to funerals down there of those people so I, I've, I'm closely connected with all that, all that
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group.  Bill Storer you know, Bill and I are connected. Bill we selected to go to group.  Bill Storer you know, Bill and I are connected. Bill we selected to go to
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Mawson because as you know, an outstanding operator, we had no, didn't bother about Mawson because as you know, an outstanding operator, we had no, didn't bother about
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looking any much further.  With Lem Macey going as our, the radio chief looking any much further.  With Lem Macey going as our, the radio chief
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Bill Storer will be the operator.  [Ingrid] Is there anything else that you'd like to add Dick?  [Dick] No Bill Storer will be the operator.  [Ingrid] Is there anything else that you'd like to add Dick?  [Dick] No
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I was never aggrieved in my time.  In fact I can say in I was never aggrieved in my time.  In fact I can say in
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a 50 year career in the Commonwealth Public Service, I never believed I was a 50 year career in the Commonwealth Public Service, I never believed I was
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aggrieved. A long happy and fortunate life, vigorous, dangerous, aggrieved. A long happy and fortunate life, vigorous, dangerous,
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hardworking as the Antarctic was, but ah of enormous interest. hardworking as the Antarctic was, but ah of enormous interest.
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You've certainly had an amazing time particularly in the Antarctic and I know that, speaking to You've certainly had an amazing time particularly in the Antarctic and I know that, speaking to
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a lot of the expeditioners, you you're very highly respected and liked.  So a lot of the expeditioners, you you're very highly respected and liked.  So
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that's really cheap credit Thank you know you thanks Nick. that's really cheap credit Thank you know you thanks Nick.