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It's Ingrid McGaughey the 18th of August 2011 and I'm just resuming It's Ingrid McGaughey the 18th of August 2011 and I'm just resuming
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a conversation with Dick Thompson who worked as a conversation with Dick Thompson who worked as
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a supply officer and later the administrative officer with the Antarctic Division of a supply officer and later the administrative officer with the Antarctic Division of
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Department of External Affairs. We just been talking about the selection process and Dick Department of External Affairs. We just been talking about the selection process and Dick
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was just going to let us know some of the procedures, how they selected people for was just going to let us know some of the procedures, how they selected people for
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going down south. [Dick] At the risk of being difficult um I going down south. [Dick] At the risk of being difficult um I
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worked with and for Phillip Law for 11 years and have the highest regard for them and we- we were worked with and for Phillip Law for 11 years and have the highest regard for them and we- we were
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close friends, but Phil was very keen on people close friends, but Phil was very keen on people
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having ahm field and snow experience and so the worst st- st... having ahm field and snow experience and so the worst st- st...
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times when people told good stories ah-ah of that and they I got good marks times when people told good stories ah-ah of that and they I got good marks
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because of uh that, ah Phil was always keen to find out what kind of background they had in because of uh that, ah Phil was always keen to find out what kind of background they had in
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in the field and snow and given the fact that there wasn't much skiing went on in in the field and snow and given the fact that there wasn't much skiing went on in
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Australia those days uh ah and there's not too many mountains that are worthwhile climbing in Australia those days uh ah and there's not too many mountains that are worthwhile climbing in
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Australia and uh there wasn't much of that either that ah people would ah- Australia and uh there wasn't much of that either that ah people would ah-
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who knew the ropes would would strengthen that the uh that part of their their background. who knew the ropes would would strengthen that the uh that part of their their background.
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In fact as I used to point out to Phil the greater part of their work was In fact as I used to point out to Phil the greater part of their work was
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a lot of it was sedentary, sitting down at a lot of it was sedentary, sitting down at
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a radio set, or working on an engine or something else like and we needed people a radio set, or working on an engine or something else like and we needed people
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whose first and foremost should be good at their job as good at their technical trade. whose first and foremost should be good at their job as good at their technical trade.
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So how did you advertise positions to the general community in So how did you advertise positions to the general community in
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Australia. [Dick] They ah advertised in the government gazette which nobody except public Australia. [Dick] They ah advertised in the government gazette which nobody except public
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servants ever read ah and then in the newspaper um just straightforward advertisement in the servants ever read ah and then in the newspaper um just straightforward advertisement in the
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newspaper. Ah Australian National Antarctic research expeditions positions available at newspaper. Ah Australian National Antarctic research expeditions positions available at
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Heard and  Macquarie Island, medical officer, um diesel mechanic, radio operator, Heard and  Macquarie Island, medical officer, um diesel mechanic, radio operator,
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carpenter, uh cook, uh-. [Ingrid] So how many applications would you get for carpenter, uh cook, uh-. [Ingrid] So how many applications would you get for
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each position? [Dick] Oh, you know, ah, considering that each position? [Dick] Oh, you know, ah, considering that
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we would um, considering we'd have six at Heard and Macquarie, three radio operators of each there's we would um, considering we'd have six at Heard and Macquarie, three radio operators of each there's
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six ah- you know, we we'd probably get fifty applications or forty applications.  At six ah- you know, we we'd probably get fifty applications or forty applications.  At
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the time we were um talking about, there was still a big pool of the time we were um talking about, there was still a big pool of
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service men out of three armed services who were competent operators especially service men out of three armed services who were competent operators especially
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Navy people were very competent um radio operators and that they they were Navy people were very competent um radio operators and that they they were
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they were um they were um
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a good mark too because they're used to living in confined spaces and they were used to a good mark too because they're used to living in confined spaces and they were used to
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therefore getting on with people, which you need to do in twelve months in one place and um therefore getting on with people, which you need to do in twelve months in one place and um
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people who live on ships can, you know, are usually better at that than others or have more people who live on ships can, you know, are usually better at that than others or have more
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experience anyway. [Ingrid] Did you interview everyone who applied or just people that you experience anyway. [Ingrid] Did you interview everyone who applied or just people that you
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felt would better suit? [Dick] Well a lot a lot felt would better suit? [Dick] Well a lot a lot
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a lot we've ruled out on the age of ee- ah- far too young or far too old ah and ah a lot we've ruled out on the age of ee- ah- far too young or far too old ah and ah
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because ah um you get applications from the whole Australian because ah um you get applications from the whole Australian
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population if you like and that's how they were. We, we didn't specify age limits uh population if you like and that's how they were. We, we didn't specify age limits uh
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because because
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a 60 year old man who was mad keen on radio stuff and uh you were uh a 60 year old man who was mad keen on radio stuff and uh you were uh
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you ah had your doubts about that matter. So, so you're looking for that, that middle age group you ah had your doubts about that matter. So, so you're looking for that, that middle age group
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of anything from the early twenties up to forty. [Ingrid] Other than ice and snow, of anything from the early twenties up to forty. [Ingrid] Other than ice and snow,
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experience living in confined areas, were there any other criteria you particularly looked experience living in confined areas, were there any other criteria you particularly looked
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for? [Dick] No. One for? [Dick] No. One
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you you looked for what other interest they might have um, you know, were they you you looked for what other interest they might have um, you know, were they
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were they doing any studies for this or that or whatever so, no they they were as I  were they doing any studies for this or that or whatever so, no they they were as I 
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mentioned simple days, ah in in terms of sel-selection procedures. [Ingrid] Did, did mentioned simple days, ah in in terms of sel-selection procedures. [Ingrid] Did, did
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any women ever apply for these positions? [Dick] S-sorry? [Ingrid] Did any women ever apply for these any women ever apply for these positions? [Dick] S-sorry? [Ingrid] Did any women ever apply for these
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positions? [Dick] I don't recall. Even even thought it didn't say males only, I don't recall, I positions? [Dick] I don't recall. Even even thought it didn't say males only, I don't recall, I
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don't recall women applying. [Ingrid] Ok. Did you ever select anyone to go down south and don't recall women applying. [Ingrid] Ok. Did you ever select anyone to go down south and
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then decided they weren't really appropriate before they left? [Dick] Ah, yes. then decided they weren't really appropriate before they left? [Dick] Ah, yes.
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and that was because of ah behaviour ah in and that was because of ah behaviour ah in
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Australia before we left. In the time I was there we were headquartered in Melbourne, Australia before we left. In the time I was there we were headquartered in Melbourne,
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first of all, as I mentioned, at Albert Park Barracks and later on in 187 Collins first of all, as I mentioned, at Albert Park Barracks and later on in 187 Collins
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Street Melbourne, and after I left they were in, further down St Kilda Road, Street Melbourne, and after I left they were in, further down St Kilda Road,
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and and
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a,  new expeditioners were sent to work at Tottenham in packing a,  new expeditioners were sent to work at Tottenham in packing
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stores.  If we're gonna to have stores.  If we're gonna to have
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a prefab hut we build it out there and ah a variety of tasks of that nature. a prefab hut we build it out there and ah a variety of tasks of that nature.
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We'd the elec- the diesel mechanic will be sent off to do courses on We'd the elec- the diesel mechanic will be sent off to do courses on
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electrics or the things that he didn't know much about ah. The electrics or the things that he didn't know much about ah. The
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and ah a lot of them would come back into the city at night time and we'd be having and ah a lot of them would come back into the city at night time and we'd be having
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drinks in the local pub. I used to have a drink on drinks in the local pub. I used to have a drink on
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a Friday night in those days. But so there was a lot a Friday night in those days. But so there was a lot
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of ah getting on together with each other and but of ah getting on together with each other and but
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we could observe people and we could observe odd traits of ah of funny things and we could observe people and we could observe odd traits of ah of funny things and
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not I'm not, in-in this regard I'm not talking about drinking ah, but people disappear for not I'm not, in-in this regard I'm not talking about drinking ah, but people disappear for
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a few days and we didn't know why and ah ah um they'd have funny excuses ah so a few days and we didn't know why and ah ah um they'd have funny excuses ah so
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yes there were occasions when we ah, there were occasions when  yes there were occasions when we ah, there were occasions when 
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we decided that the ah that person shouldn't go away. We had one chap who was we decided that the ah that person shouldn't go away. We had one chap who was
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the medical practitioner, the medical practitioner,
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the doctor, and he also was, as a hobby the doctor, and he also was, as a hobby
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a radio ham, a radio ham,
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a ham operator, and he wanted to be employed also as he didn't he a ham operator, and he wanted to be employed also as he didn't he
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didn't say this at the interview but after he was on the job ah he ah decided he wanted to be didn't say this at the interview but after he was on the job ah he ah decided he wanted to be
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also do the radio work and be paid at that as well [laughs] and so there was also do the radio work and be paid at that as well [laughs] and so there was
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a falling out. He wouldn't ,he wouldn't budge or move on that and so that was of a falling out. He wouldn't ,he wouldn't budge or move on that and so that was of
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no sense to us because he was there to do the job of no sense to us because he was there to do the job of
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a medical practitioner and to help the biologists, and to carry out and other a medical practitioner and to help the biologists, and to carry out and other
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sorts of medical programs that the ah the Department of Health might think would be useful. sorts of medical programs that the ah the Department of Health might think would be useful.
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[Ingrid] I had heard that one of the gentlemen who'd been selected for the 54 Mawson expedition [Ingrid] I had heard that one of the gentlemen who'd been selected for the 54 Mawson expedition
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also ahm didn't go down south. [Dick] Yes, yes that was that was the carpenter and um also ahm didn't go down south. [Dick] Yes, yes that was that was the carpenter and um
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we ah found there were there were odd personality traits that became quite evident in in the we ah found there were there were odd personality traits that became quite evident in in the
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social gatherings. Ah,  groups of men together are usually no fools social gatherings. Ah,  groups of men together are usually no fools
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and they become as a wake up ah to people to something odd about this person. and they become as a wake up ah to people to something odd about this person.
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This person that, as I recall had, applied and said he was a Scot and came This person that, as I recall had, applied and said he was a Scot and came
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from a certain coastal town in Scotland. And in doing some research we found he'd applied from a certain coastal town in Scotland. And in doing some research we found he'd applied
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earlier for another another position on one mo- earlier time and not been accepted and he said earlier for another another position on one mo- earlier time and not been accepted and he said
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he'd come from Cornwall. Ah and um so they're character traits, you know there's a character defect really. he'd come from Cornwall. Ah and um so they're character traits, you know there's a character defect really.
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[Ingrid] Of the men who went.. [Dick] Not many, not many hum. [Ingrid] Yeah. Of the men who went down south [Ingrid] Of the men who went.. [Dick] Not many, not many hum. [Ingrid] Yeah. Of the men who went down south
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did you have did you have
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a performance appraisal system in place? Was there [Dick] No. [Ingrid] a way of assessing their performance over the year? a performance appraisal system in place? Was there [Dick] No. [Ingrid] a way of assessing their performance over the year?
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[Dick] The term hadn't been invented. [Ingrid] Was there ever any one that you decided should not [Dick] The term hadn't been invented. [Ingrid] Was there ever any one that you decided should not
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go back to Antarctica, if they applied again? [Dick] Um o-only, uh go back to Antarctica, if they applied again? [Dick] Um o-only, uh
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I, I mentioned this at the midwinter dinner that we decided that the I, I mentioned this at the midwinter dinner that we decided that the
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a certain person who wanted to go shouldn't go because we, we thought that he was a certain person who wanted to go shouldn't go because we, we thought that he was
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running away from um the real world and ah we ah I I think we're probably quite wrong. running away from um the real world and ah we ah I I think we're probably quite wrong.
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But he's But he's
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a nice chap, there's nothing wrong, nothing wrong with 'im at all, he was a good operator but a nice chap, there's nothing wrong, nothing wrong with 'im at all, he was a good operator but
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we thought people applying to go away for we thought people applying to go away for
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a third time that's mad. Uh ahm, we- it was a third time that's mad. Uh ahm, we- it was
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here I'm talking about here I'm talking about
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a full twelve month period when he was away and there was no other person in sight or no other a full twelve month period when he was away and there was no other person in sight or no other
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ships or no other ships in the whole of the Antarctic Ocean ah so no other visitors ahm you're ships or no other ships in the whole of the Antarctic Ocean ah so no other visitors ahm you're
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there twelve months. And um so ah and that's a- a hard thing. there twelve months. And um so ah and that's a- a hard thing.
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On the other hand we um we um once um let a bloke extend On the other hand we um we um once um let a bloke extend
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and do a ?says? and do a ?says?
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a 2nd year,  um he was well liked and well ah, well adjusted and ah he a 2nd year,  um he was well liked and well ah, well adjusted and ah he
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was the radio, he was the weather weather bloke  was the radio, he was the weather weather bloke 
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who'd taken a great interest in the dogs and at that stage we needed who'd taken a great interest in the dogs and at that stage we needed
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someone to look after the dogs at Heard Island. [Ingrid] Was that Leon Fox? [Dick] No it wasn't someone to look after the dogs at Heard Island. [Ingrid] Was that Leon Fox? [Dick] No it wasn't
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Leon. Leon was the first person to ever be appointed as a Leon. Leon was the first person to ever be appointed as a
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dog handler, that was a fella called Jack Walsh and ah and he he was a,  dog handler, that was a fella called Jack Walsh and ah and he he was a, 
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he'd stayed on for the 2nd year to look after the dogs, there was so many of them and he was he'd stayed on for the 2nd year to look after the dogs, there was so many of them and he was
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quite competent at that too. Ah but ah yes I think we're probably quite wrong quite competent at that too. Ah but ah yes I think we're probably quite wrong
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with the chap I ah-ah- I was thinking of ah um. To him it was with the chap I ah-ah- I was thinking of ah um. To him it was
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a pretty normal sort of existence. Some radio people a pretty normal sort of existence. Some radio people
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worked for companies ah like the English company Cable and Wireless which in those worked for companies ah like the English company Cable and Wireless which in those
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days were talking Morse code yep, and they'd have stations all around the world in remote days were talking Morse code yep, and they'd have stations all around the world in remote
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places, not necessarily Antarctic places and they were places where other people places, not necessarily Antarctic places and they were places where other people
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lived, that often were places where there were ah no ah other Europeans lived, that often were places where there were ah no ah other Europeans
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or whatever and so I- I think in retrospect there were um quite or whatever and so I- I think in retrospect there were um quite
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a lot of radio people for example,quite used to being in remote areas. And indeed a lot of radio people for example,quite used to being in remote areas. And indeed
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there was a- was a- still is there was a- was a- still is
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a weather station up in the Coral Sea called Willis Island which is still uh manned a weather station up in the Coral Sea called Willis Island which is still uh manned
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and is not and is not
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a very nice island either, in terms of t-t- no no waving palms or a very nice island either, in terms of t-t- no no waving palms or
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anything else like and it's in the middle of a cycle  belt and um, it could be quite anything else like and it's in the middle of a cycle  belt and um, it could be quite
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a difficult place for a year.  [Ingrid] So when the men return from their time down on Macquarie a difficult place for a year.  [Ingrid] So when the men return from their time down on Macquarie
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Island and Heard Island, did they have  Island and Heard Island, did they have 
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a period of debriefing or hand over to the head office?  [Dick] Yes we yes we did yes a period of debriefing or hand over to the head office?  [Dick] Yes we yes we did yes
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but hand over but hand over
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a take over at the station, of course,  and then coming back, in many cases Phil a take over at the station, of course,  and then coming back, in many cases Phil
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would do,  Phil Law would talk at them length and I would too but I wouldn't be taking would do,  Phil Law would talk at them length and I would too but I wouldn't be taking
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notes, uh he might. Um when they came back,  the scientists, of course, were notes, uh he might. Um when they came back,  the scientists, of course, were
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involved in, if they belonged to the Bureau of Mineral Resources,  they'd go back to that and involved in, if they belonged to the Bureau of Mineral Resources,  they'd go back to that and
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work up their results back there. Ah, the medical officer usually stayed on for some time work up their results back there. Ah, the medical officer usually stayed on for some time
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and wrote up his results of the work he'd, he'd carried out ,and so yes there were there and wrote up his results of the work he'd, he'd carried out ,and so yes there were there
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was, there was a run down period after they came back,  in many ca..., not, not for was, there was a run down period after they came back,  in many ca..., not, not for
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everybody ahm, in most cases the radio blokes, would just,  the radio people would just go straight back everybody ahm, in most cases the radio blokes, would just,  the radio people would just go straight back
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back to wherever they came from.  [Ingrid]  Hm,  so if, if you'd been involved with Antarctic Division and back to wherever they came from.  [Ingrid]  Hm,  so if, if you'd been involved with Antarctic Division and
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gone back to your normal job, if you then decided to reapply for a subsequent year, what was gone back to your normal job, if you then decided to reapply for a subsequent year, what was
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the procedure from your point of view?  [Dick] We would look at that person and say he's the procedure from your point of view?  [Dick] We would look at that person and say he's
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a good, he's a good, a good, he's a good,
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a good person, he's in.  Now we had we had one party, one party at a good person, he's in.  Now we had we had one party, one party at
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Macquarie Island and the leader was Ian Adams,  Macquarie Island and the leader was Ian Adams, 
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a New Zealander.  By this stage we were appointing officers in charge, in the early part a New Zealander.  By this stage we were appointing officers in charge, in the early part
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of the 1950's, ah in the very early days of the Antarctic Division the  of the 1950's, ah in the very early days of the Antarctic Division the 
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OIC, was usually the meteorologist, because he was OIC, was usually the meteorologist, because he was
13:58

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a permanent public servant and he was the highest classified person there so it was a permanent public servant and he was the highest classified person there so it was
14:04

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simple, we just looked at public service structures, the senior  simple, we just looked at public service structures, the senior 
14:07

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public servant became the OIC and that was public servant became the OIC and that was
14:15

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usually the meteorologist. We did have ah ah occasions where we appointed somebody usually the meteorologist. We did have ah ah occasions where we appointed somebody
14:22

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else but usually  it was else but usually  it was
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a person who'd been away before, at one stage it was Les Gibney who was a person who'd been away before, at one stage it was Les Gibney who was
14:27

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a biologist, but Les had been away a year before and with ah a good job. I'll go back to talking a biologist, but Les had been away a year before and with ah a good job. I'll go back to talking
14:33

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about about
14:33

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Ian Adams' party at Macquarie Island. They were an excellent party and ah and they got on enormously Ian Adams' party at Macquarie Island. They were an excellent party and ah and they got on enormously
14:40

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well together and so, ah when they came back they all, great, not all well together and so, ah when they came back they all, great, not all
14:47

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the great number of them, we weren't talking of numbers, there was usually 14 people at each station but the great number of them, we weren't talking of numbers, there was usually 14 people at each station but
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a good proportion of that, of Ian Adams' party applied to go to Mawson a good proportion of that, of Ian Adams' party applied to go to Mawson
15:01

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and did and were an excellent party, Eric Macklin for example was one of those. and did and were an excellent party, Eric Macklin for example was one of those.
15:08

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Eric was a very, very good operator at Macquarie, a very good radio operator indeed Eric was a very, very good operator at Macquarie, a very good radio operator indeed
15:13

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a very good man, um, so a very good man, um, so
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Ian Adams' parties were both very good parties, we had no hesitation in, when those people  Ian Adams' parties were both very good parties, we had no hesitation in, when those people 
15:23

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applied again. It was, to ah, to accept them. applied again. It was, to ah, to accept them.
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The pioneer Mawson party was largely made up of people who had been  The pioneer Mawson party was largely made up of people who had been 
15:37

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away before and who were held in high regard.  Bob Dovers, Lem Macey,  Bill away before and who were held in high regard.  Bob Dovers, Lem Macey,  Bill
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Storer, um, and so and so.  The carpenter ended up being Bill Harvey Storer, um, and so and so.  The carpenter ended up being Bill Harvey
15:50

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a Scotsman from Glasgow, who was very good, ah, and the, and the cook a Scotsman from Glasgow, who was very good, ah, and the, and the cook
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were er, were er newcomers. And Georges Schwartz, the dog handler were er, were er newcomers. And Georges Schwartz, the dog handler
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had been with Bob Dovers on a French expedition, so he, he came as had been with Bob Dovers on a French expedition, so he, he came as
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a known person. Bob Dingle ah, ah was the weather observer a known person. Bob Dingle ah, ah was the weather observer
16:19

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Bruce Stinear Bruce Stinear
16:20

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the geologist came to us unknown, from ah government resources, and so there so  the geologist came to us unknown, from ah government resources, and so there so 
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so the large, the first year people were known characters,  There were  so the large, the first year people were known characters,  There were 
16:31

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a good party, they were good, the pioneer party were  a good party, they were good, the pioneer party were 
16:34

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a good party.  [Ingrid]  How did you decide whether people went to Macquarie Island or Heard Island? a good party.  [Ingrid]  How did you decide whether people went to Macquarie Island or Heard Island?
16:41

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[Dick] Fairly [Ingrid] How did you choose where they went? [Dick} fairly arbitrarily  I can't recall our, our systems, pretty  [Dick] Fairly [Ingrid] How did you choose where they went? [Dick} fairly arbitrarily  I can't recall our, our systems, pretty 
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arbitrarily and some some people later on,  who'd been to Macquarie, applied  arbitrarily and some some people later on,  who'd been to Macquarie, applied 
16:53

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to go to Heard, because they wanted to go an ice covered place, whereas Macquarie is  to go to Heard, because they wanted to go an ice covered place, whereas Macquarie is 
16:58

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a place which gets snow falls and so on like that, and then rain and washes it all the way and a place which gets snow falls and so on like that, and then rain and washes it all the way and
17:02

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they really wanted to go they really wanted to go
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to a place that had lots of ice and the real,  the Antarctic convergence is you know to a place that had lots of ice and the real,  the Antarctic convergence is you know
17:11

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dips and wanders around and so while Heard Island is ah,  Macquarie Island is furthest  dips and wanders around and so while Heard Island is ah,  Macquarie Island is furthest 
17:17

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south by a degree or so than Heard, the Antarctic convergence lies south by a degree or so than Heard, the Antarctic convergence lies
17:25

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above Heard and below Macquarie, and so the weather patterns are different so above Heard and below Macquarie, and so the weather patterns are different so
17:32

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quite quite
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a number of people who'd been to Macquarie, signed up to go to Heard because they wanted a number of people who'd been to Macquarie, signed up to go to Heard because they wanted
17:36

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a different experience.  [Ingrid]  So if they hadn't been south before, the decision on where they went would that  a different experience.  [Ingrid]  So if they hadn't been south before, the decision on where they went would that 
17:43

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be decided by you and Phil, or did the OIC have a say in it? [Dick] No the OIC didn't have be decided by you and Phil, or did the OIC have a say in it? [Dick] No the OIC didn't have
17:48

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a say.  [Ingrid] Cool, alright so... [Dick] We, we when we had a say.  [Ingrid] Cool, alright so... [Dick] We, we when we had
17:56

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then they were the  then they were the 
17:56

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people from the Met Bureau of course,  they didn't turn up until late in the piece people from the Met Bureau of course,  they didn't turn up until late in the piece
18:01

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they were just they were just
18:01

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assigned and they do work in the Weather Bureau,  and they'd turn up, you know, they'd come down assigned and they do work in the Weather Bureau,  and they'd turn up, you know, they'd come down
18:07

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and mix with our people but, you know, they, they weren't there until late in the piece. and mix with our people but, you know, they, they weren't there until late in the piece.
18:15

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Dick you mentioned that you've been involved quite Dick you mentioned that you've been involved quite
18:17

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a bit with the um ship based operations... [Dick] Yes  [Ingrid] of the the expeditions. I thought we might have a bit with the um ship based operations... [Dick] Yes  [Ingrid] of the the expeditions. I thought we might have
18:24

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a little bit of a little bit of
18:24

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a chat about that.  [Dick] Yes. mm,  fine.   Well having been a chat about that.  [Dick] Yes. mm,  fine.   Well having been
18:33

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ah engaged   ah engaged  
18:37

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as a public servant into the position as store officer, it was decided by Phil Law, that  the office staff as a public servant into the position as store officer, it was decided by Phil Law, that  the office staff
18:46

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should go south to Heard or Macquarie,  with the resupply expedition to have should go south to Heard or Macquarie,  with the resupply expedition to have
18:53

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a look at the place, and to understand the work that  they were working on, and so I a look at the place, and to understand the work that  they were working on, and so I
18:59

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was asked to go to Macquarie Island in 1951, and  the reason was asked to go to Macquarie Island in 1951, and  the reason
19:06

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we went on a coastal cargo ship called the River Fitzroy owned by  we went on a coastal cargo ship called the River Fitzroy owned by 
19:11

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the Commonwealth Government. In those days the government owned a  shipping line um called the  the Commonwealth Government. In those days the government owned a  shipping line um called the 
19:17

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Australian National Line and the HMAS Labuan had broken down Australian National Line and the HMAS Labuan had broken down
19:24

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irretrievably, on the way back from Heard Island, within a reasonable distance of irretrievably, on the way back from Heard Island, within a reasonable distance of
19:31

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Fremantle and in good weather was towed back into Fremantle. And Fremantle and in good weather was towed back into Fremantle. And
19:38

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it developed cracks in the hull and so in the end it had to be decommissioned and paid it developed cracks in the hull and so in the end it had to be decommissioned and paid
19:43

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off and then the Antarctic Division was in a difficult position of trying to find off and then the Antarctic Division was in a difficult position of trying to find
19:50

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a ship, convenient, handy, local ship that could go to Macquarie Island to relieve a ship, convenient, handy, local ship that could go to Macquarie Island to relieve
19:57

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the earlier party and to  take down the new party. And this took quite some time, ah, we the earlier party and to  take down the new party. And this took quite some time, ah, we
20:03

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was, it was,  they were thinking of getting was, it was,  they were thinking of getting
20:06

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a ship from Europe, ah, and so we a ship from Europe, ah, and so we
20:13

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literally, various parts of the government leaned on other parts of the government and so literally, various parts of the government leaned on other parts of the government and so
20:18

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we were given the River Fitzroy, which is we were given the River Fitzroy, which is
20:22

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a 9000 ton cargo ship, of the same size and shape as a 9000 ton cargo ship, of the same size and shape as
20:26

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a US wartime built liberty ship,  patented the same way.  And it was a US wartime built liberty ship,  patented the same way.  And it was
20:33

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engaged in carrying iron ore from engaged in carrying iron ore from
20:40

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Whyalla Whyalla
20:40

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and the iron mines behind Whyalla,  Iron Knob, Iron Mike, Iron Baron etc around and the iron mines behind Whyalla,  Iron Knob, Iron Mike, Iron Baron etc around
20:47

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to Port Kembla ah, and to Newcastle for the two BHP steel to Port Kembla ah, and to Newcastle for the two BHP steel
20:54

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works there.  Ah the ship was by no means full of works there.  Ah the ship was by no means full of
21:01

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iron ore.   There was plenty of spaces, was only the lower holds had iron ore in them iron ore.   There was plenty of spaces, was only the lower holds had iron ore in them
21:07

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and so er, we went south in this large ship crewed by an Australian merchant and so er, we went south in this large ship crewed by an Australian merchant
21:15

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seaman and with two army ducks on board.  Because we had to seaman and with two army ducks on board.  Because we had to
21:22

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because the tractor, the caterpillar D4 tractor, um a very heavy piece of because the tractor, the caterpillar D4 tractor, um a very heavy piece of
21:28

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equipment was, had broken down irretrievably, equipment was, had broken down irretrievably,
21:35

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on Macquarie Island we had to put in on Macquarie Island we had to put in
21:38

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a new tractor.   I suppose,  in thinking of those days, a new tractor.   I suppose,  in thinking of those days,
21:46

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we just thought that if they've got we just thought that if they've got
21:47

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a D4 tractor at both places, that's what they need, and we'll send another one down a D4 tractor at both places, that's what they need, and we'll send another one down
21:52

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whereas we probably should have thought of, should we not have gone for whereas we probably should have thought of, should we not have gone for
21:55

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a wheeled tractor a wheeled tractor
21:56

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like a Ferguson,  which is what we sent to Mawson in the first place and it was like a Ferguson,  which is what we sent to Mawson in the first place and it was
21:60

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excellent. Whether there weren't excellent. Whether there weren't
22:03

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available I don't know. But so, we got another D4 tractor and we had to put available I don't know. But so, we got another D4 tractor and we had to put
22:09

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that ashore and to do that we had that ashore and to do that we had
22:11

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very large plywood army bridging pontoons. very large plywood army bridging pontoons.
22:18

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A bridging pontoon is such that an army, can in trying to cross A bridging pontoon is such that an army, can in trying to cross
22:23

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a river or stream, would put these plywood things situated at various parts in the a river or stream, would put these plywood things situated at various parts in the
22:29

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stream and then lay planking across, across which stream and then lay planking across, across which
22:32

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a truck could drive.   So we had four of those, the whole idea was that we would, we would sling the D4 a truck could drive.   So we had four of those, the whole idea was that we would, we would sling the D4
22:39

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tractor out onto that and then buy some way  tractor out onto that and then buy some way 
22:42

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or other, get of the shore.    I mentioned earlier that or other, get of the shore.    I mentioned earlier that
22:49

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in that days of HMAS Labuan,  the Navy sailors did all the  physical work of in that days of HMAS Labuan,  the Navy sailors did all the  physical work of
22:56

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cargo handling and we found that, er the Australian merchant  cargo handling and we found that, er the Australian merchant 
23:03

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seamen of those days were, had different views about these things and so we found seamen of those days were, had different views about these things and so we found
23:08

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the expeditioners working in the holds,  scrabbling around, loading the cargo nets the expeditioners working in the holds,  scrabbling around, loading the cargo nets
23:13

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to be swung out into the army duck, and to go through the gap, ah in Buckles Bay, to be swung out into the army duck, and to go through the gap, ah in Buckles Bay,
23:21

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through the kelp and the nigger heads to go ashore where the expeditions would as through the kelp and the nigger heads to go ashore where the expeditions would as
23:26

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usual unload, ah unload the ducks. Am, the usual unload, ah unload the ducks. Am, the
23:33

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pontoons and getting the D4 tractor ashore was  pontoons and getting the D4 tractor ashore was 
23:37

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a different matter entirely.   I had found myself working as a different matter entirely.   I had found myself working as
23:42

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the crew on the duck handling cargo, that is at water level, and the stuff being swung over  the crew on the duck handling cargo, that is at water level, and the stuff being swung over 
23:48

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the ship. I'd had this experience in the navy but I certainly had not handled cargo the ship. I'd had this experience in the navy but I certainly had not handled cargo
23:53

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in the navy where I was a signalman and the navy in the navy where I was a signalman and the navy
23:55

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doesn't handle cargo, it's, it's  er handles food stuffs and shells and stuff doesn't handle cargo, it's, it's  er handles food stuffs and shells and stuff
24:02

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like that like that
24:03

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to load a ship. But we assembled the the four to load a ship. But we assembled the the four
24:10

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great big pontoons alongside the,  alongside the ship  and swung great big pontoons alongside the,  alongside the ship  and swung
24:18

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the D4 tractor out, and I volunteered to accompany it in, on its voyage in the D4 tractor out, and I volunteered to accompany it in, on its voyage in
24:25

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to try and get out through the gap. to try and get out through the gap.
24:32

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into, er, onto the beach at Macquarie Island.  Ah, I  into, er, onto the beach at Macquarie Island.  Ah, I 
24:41

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decided that we, because I thought we would not probably get very close, we might decided that we, because I thought we would not probably get very close, we might
24:46

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have to splash through the water, we'd need to have the tractor running and have to splash through the water, we'd need to have the tractor running and
24:53

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desirably somebody who could drive the thing, and  so I was the boat hand, we were being towed desirably somebody who could drive the thing, and  so I was the boat hand, we were being towed
24:60

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by an army duck and I was the boat hand, handling the lines and directing where we had by an army duck and I was the boat hand, handling the lines and directing where we had
25:05

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to go, and the, the other chap, was the mechanic there and he was prepared to to go, and the, the other chap, was the mechanic there and he was prepared to
25:12

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as soon as we grounded, to drive off and go ashore.  Now the duck got into difficulties and as soon as we grounded, to drive off and go ashore.  Now the duck got into difficulties and
25:19

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had to cast off and there we were, at the mercy of the waves and going through had to cast off and there we were, at the mercy of the waves and going through
25:25

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the ???? and trying hard hopefully to think of the ???? and trying hard hopefully to think of
25:28

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a way of getting through the gap,  which isn't a very big gap, a way of getting through the gap,  which isn't a very big gap,
25:31

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but we, we didn't, so we crashed through the surf onto the rocks and the kelp but we, we didn't, so we crashed through the surf onto the rocks and the kelp
25:38

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and I said of the bloke on the tractor, "Drive it!" and off he  and I said of the bloke on the tractor, "Drive it!" and off he 
25:41

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drove and, and he landed in about four foot of water, well that was enough and he got onto drove and, and he landed in about four foot of water, well that was enough and he got onto
25:45

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the beach and up.  That is how I become the Antarctic Division's maritime the beach and up.  That is how I become the Antarctic Division's maritime
25:52

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operations officer and now we, ah there had operations officer and now we, ah there had
25:59

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been been
25:59

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a case earlier where the, I'd had previous experience of these pontoons, as I'd say we'd assembled a case earlier where the, I'd had previous experience of these pontoons, as I'd say we'd assembled
26:05

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them alongside the ship and I'd done all that work,  and then they  broke free and they them alongside the ship and I'd done all that work,  and then they  broke free and they
26:10

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drifted out to sea and so an army duck was sent to chase them off, with me on board drifted out to sea and so an army duck was sent to chase them off, with me on board
26:16

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and I was lowered onto the pontoons, and so there was photographs of this figure, this lonely and I was lowered onto the pontoons, and so there was photographs of this figure, this lonely
26:21

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figure out in this wild sea figure out in this wild sea
26:24

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standing on this pontoon, hoping somebody's going to pick him up and take him back to standing on this pontoon, hoping somebody's going to pick him up and take him back to
26:28

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shore, that is the pontoons.  We wrecked those pontoons, they cost three hundred and fifty shore, that is the pontoons.  We wrecked those pontoons, they cost three hundred and fifty
26:35

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pounds pounds
26:35

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a piece, so we paid the Australian army fourteen hundred pounds having, um they were totally wrecked, a piece, so we paid the Australian army fourteen hundred pounds having, um they were totally wrecked,
26:42

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smashed up, after that.  So I became willy nilly smashed up, after that.  So I became willy nilly
26:50

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because, there was nobody else with any seafaring background to run the landing because, there was nobody else with any seafaring background to run the landing
26:56

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operations.  The following year we used operations.  The following year we used
27:00

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a small Norwegian sealing vessel called 'The Tottan', TOTTAN,  which had a small Norwegian sealing vessel called 'The Tottan', TOTTAN,  which had
27:07

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an interesting history, because it was 541 tons. It had an interesting history, because it was 541 tons. It had
27:10

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a Canadian built wartime  Corvette hull, which the Norwegians got for next to no money a Canadian built wartime  Corvette hull, which the Norwegians got for next to no money
27:16

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at all and they'd stripped it out,   they'd taken the steam engine out, they  had at all and they'd stripped it out,   they'd taken the steam engine out, they  had
27:21

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a Norwegian, sorry a German U- a Norwegian, sorry a German U-
27:23

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Boat engine, it had a name 'Peter' on it, Boat engine, it had a name 'Peter' on it,
27:26

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a 1200 horsepower and they put that in, and so the owner used to engage in going the  a 1200 horsepower and they put that in, and so the owner used to engage in going the 
27:33

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Northern Hemisphere Northern Hemisphere
27:33

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chasing seals and bringing them, back killing seals and taking them back to chasing seals and bringing them, back killing seals and taking them back to
27:38

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Norway.  And the French government had charted 'Tottan' to go down to Adelie Land Norway.  And the French government had charted 'Tottan' to go down to Adelie Land
27:47

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and so the, following our experience with 'The River Fitzroy'  we still have to go to Heard and  and so the, following our experience with 'The River Fitzroy'  we still have to go to Heard and 
27:52

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Macquarie Island, and the best that we could do, well the best that Westralian Farmers Macquarie Island, and the best that we could do, well the best that Westralian Farmers
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Transport in London, could do was to charter 'Tottan' and so Transport in London, could do was to charter 'Tottan' and so
28:04

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off we went to Heard and Macquarie Island.  It, it's  lifting derrick off we went to Heard and Macquarie Island.  It, it's  lifting derrick
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could only lift three tons, and a duck is far heavier than that,  apart from the fact that could only lift three tons, and a duck is far heavier than that,  apart from the fact that
28:18

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there is no space on the deck for this small ship so we had to find there is no space on the deck for this small ship so we had to find
28:22

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a way of how were we going to unload at Heard and Macquarie Islands.  The anchorage a way of how were we going to unload at Heard and Macquarie Islands.  The anchorage
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at Heard Island is rough, but the actual landing bay is, is fairly well sheltered, at Heard Island is rough, but the actual landing bay is, is fairly well sheltered,
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whereas Macquarie is  always open to the sea and whereas Macquarie is  always open to the sea and
28:40

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a difficult place indeed.  It so happened that the French had used a difficult place indeed.  It so happened that the French had used
28:47

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a very large thirty three foot long inflatable a very large thirty three foot long inflatable
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rubber bridging pontoons, from the US Army, that they had picked up for very rubber bridging pontoons, from the US Army, that they had picked up for very
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cheaply, as disposal stuff in Europe,  and so with these things cheaply, as disposal stuff in Europe,  and so with these things
29:03

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inflated and they could be used to move stuff ashore, but at Macquarie once it's inflated and they could be used to move stuff ashore, but at Macquarie once it's
29:07

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so once again, we had to get through the gap and so Lem Macey, who so once again, we had to get through the gap and so Lem Macey, who
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was the newly arrived senior technical officer, with vast experience of both Heard  was the newly arrived senior technical officer, with vast experience of both Heard 
29:20

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and Macquarie Island in the pioneer years, and I worked out and Macquarie Island in the pioneer years, and I worked out
29:23

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a way where the ship's boat would tow it into a way where the ship's boat would tow it into
29:28

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Macquarie Island and, and at getting close,  while we're in the surf getting Macquarie Island and, and at getting close,  while we're in the surf getting
29:35

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close to the beach, we would fire off rockets from the raft to the shore which would close to the beach, we would fire off rockets from the raft to the shore which would
29:42

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picked up by people and we would be able to secure in picked up by people and we would be able to secure in
29:46

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a certain fashion. Not breach onto the beach, because the surf a certain fashion. Not breach onto the beach, because the surf
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would bowl it over, but we were at would bowl it over, but we were at
29:55

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180 degrees to the beach.  And so we unloaded all the stores at Heard 180 degrees to the beach.  And so we unloaded all the stores at Heard
30:02

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wasn't so bad because the, while it's very rough alongside the ship, alongside the wasn't so bad because the, while it's very rough alongside the ship, alongside the
30:08

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landing beach was calm. But every drum of fuel and we had hundreds of forty four  landing beach was calm. But every drum of fuel and we had hundreds of forty four 
30:15

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gallon drums, had to be physically manhandled over the side of the ship on to the gallon drums, had to be physically manhandled over the side of the ship on to the
30:21

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pontoon pontoon
30:23

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a long skinny thing, thirty three foot long about six foot wide, maybe seven foot wide and a long skinny thing, thirty three foot long about six foot wide, maybe seven foot wide and
30:30

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Macey and I and George Smith devised Macey and I and George Smith devised
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a form of decking and we built the deckings at Tottenham, the three of us, wooden a form of decking and we built the deckings at Tottenham, the three of us, wooden
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deckings to go onto these pontoons.  And how to secure them to the pontoons,  they  deckings to go onto these pontoons.  And how to secure them to the pontoons,  they 
30:43

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become an invaluable part of our landing life for years, and so at Macquarie become an invaluable part of our landing life for years, and so at Macquarie
30:50

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it was very difficult indeed, especially there we are with 44 gallon drums of fuel on it was very difficult indeed, especially there we are with 44 gallon drums of fuel on
30:55

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a pontoon which used to bend and shape like that, and get it off, get up through the a pontoon which used to bend and shape like that, and get it off, get up through the
31:01

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surf, roll the drums up this rocky beach. Um, that was the pattern of our life. surf, roll the drums up this rocky beach. Um, that was the pattern of our life.
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We landed at Heard Island,  at sorry at Hurd Point,  H-U-R-D Point at the We landed at Heard Island,  at sorry at Hurd Point,  H-U-R-D Point at the
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southern tip of Macquarie Island, where the scientists wanted to put up a hut for southern tip of Macquarie Island, where the scientists wanted to put up a hut for
31:19

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a certain type of work which is a certain type of work which is
31:21

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a different story again so we landed at Hurd Point, in our pontoons, so I a different story again so we landed at Hurd Point, in our pontoons, so I
31:28

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became the er,  the er, the landing's expert and so  became the er,  the er, the landing's expert and so 
31:35

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we eventually went through to, to Mawson,  it was my job to get everything ashore we eventually went through to, to Mawson,  it was my job to get everything ashore
31:42

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by any means at all, and then, in our  coastal exploration, was to devise by any means at all, and then, in our  coastal exploration, was to devise
31:47

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a way to get the surveyor, eh, or a way to get the surveyor, eh, or
31:50

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the geophysicist ashore on a piece of rock, so that they could take an the geophysicist ashore on a piece of rock, so that they could take an
31:53

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astro fix.  So I, so I doubled astro fix.  So I, so I doubled
31:56

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as either as a supply officer and later as  the admin officer running the office and all of as either as a supply officer and later as  the admin officer running the office and all of
32:02

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recruitment and the training of people, and training is recruitment and the training of people, and training is
32:06

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a different thing again. Uh, and in the office and then, for four months of the year, at sea a different thing again. Uh, and in the office and then, for four months of the year, at sea
32:12

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doing the sea ferry.  [Ingrid] So just to clarify the landing operations at Macquarie Island  doing the sea ferry.  [Ingrid] So just to clarify the landing operations at Macquarie Island 
32:17

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you would lower the goods over the side of  the ship onto the pontoon.  The duck then would  you would lower the goods over the side of  the ship onto the pontoon.  The duck then would 
32:22

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help to tow the pontoon in a little bit closer to shore?  [Dick] Well, we didn't have the duck, we didn't help to tow the pontoon in a little bit closer to shore?  [Dick] Well, we didn't have the duck, we didn't
32:25

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have ducks so that's how we had  have ducks so that's how we had 
32:26

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a ship, a ship's motorboat.  [Ingrid] A ship's motorboat.  And then would the pontoon actually land on a ship, a ship's motorboat.  [Ingrid] A ship's motorboat.  And then would the pontoon actually land on
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the beach or would you keep it out just beyond the breakers?  [Dick] No, no, no we'd  have to. we'd have the beach or would you keep it out just beyond the breakers?  [Dick] No, no, no we'd  have to. we'd have
32:35

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to poke it in, nose first, onto the beach. to poke it in, nose first, onto the beach.
32:38

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So we've surged through the surf, through the gap, bang onto the beach where we'd have So we've surged through the surf, through the gap, bang onto the beach where we'd have
32:44

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people holding it, while we unload, unloaded all the stores, the cases,  the ??? people holding it, while we unload, unloaded all the stores, the cases,  the ???
32:50

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these intractable 44 gallon drums, otherwise everything else was in boxes. these intractable 44 gallon drums, otherwise everything else was in boxes.
32:56

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Having spent a year on Macquarie Island that's  Having spent a year on Macquarie Island that's 
32:58

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a fairly hairy procedure, through the bank, the breakers.  [Dick] It is indeed, it is indeed.  [Ingrid]  Did you a fairly hairy procedure, through the bank, the breakers.  [Dick] It is indeed, it is indeed.  [Ingrid]  Did you
33:05

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have any other interesting experiences with unloading the ship, or shipping operations?  [Dick]  Well, we have any other interesting experiences with unloading the ship, or shipping operations?  [Dick]  Well, we
33:12

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on, on the 'River Fitzroy' expedition we, we actually were going ashore, we on, on the 'River Fitzroy' expedition we, we actually were going ashore, we
33:19

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had two huts down the coast,  one of Sandy Bay and one at had two huts down the coast,  one of Sandy Bay and one at
33:26

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Lusitania Lusitania
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Bay and we were going in, taking food stuffs in to leave there Bay and we were going in, taking food stuffs in to leave there
33:34

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for the overnight parties, who'd be out doing biological and other work, and we hit in the for the overnight parties, who'd be out doing biological and other work, and we hit in the
33:41

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duck we hit a niggerhead,  this was in May 51,  we hit duck we hit a niggerhead,  this was in May 51,  we hit
33:44

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a digger, the duck, was stranded and could not reach the shore. And so we a digger, the duck, was stranded and could not reach the shore. And so we
33:51

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unloaded it through the surf. And then eventually was wrecked and we spent the unloaded it through the surf. And then eventually was wrecked and we spent the
33:57

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night there and were taken off next day, rowing ourselves in a, in a  night there and were taken off next day, rowing ourselves in a, in a 
34:03

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a we, we had, we had I thing called a surf whaler, we used to carry with ah a we, we had, we had I thing called a surf whaler, we used to carry with ah
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a whaler is a  a whaler is a 
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a twenty seven foot long naval rowing and sailing craft we carried, we a twenty seven foot long naval rowing and sailing craft we carried, we
34:18

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had owned two of them and we carried them with us, should we need it for emergencies.  And er, and so had owned two of them and we carried them with us, should we need it for emergencies.  And er, and so
34:24

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we, we rowed ourselves off from Lusitania Bay to  the 'River Fitzroy' and we, we rowed ourselves off from Lusitania Bay to  the 'River Fitzroy' and
34:31

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I, I was quickly diagnosed with hypothermia, because I'd spent the previous week I, I was quickly diagnosed with hypothermia, because I'd spent the previous week
34:37

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in the water,  ah on pontoons or getting the tractor ashore, and so on like that and I was in the water,  ah on pontoons or getting the tractor ashore, and so on like that and I was
34:44

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pretty wet.  Now, um, at pretty wet.  Now, um, at
34:50

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the landings at Hurd Point, for the cosmic ray hut,  the scientists had this idea that we the landings at Hurd Point, for the cosmic ray hut,  the scientists had this idea that we
34:57

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put put
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a hut up on top of the, of the escarpment, and so we a hut up on top of the, of the escarpment, and so we
35:05

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went off in 'Tottan' to went off in 'Tottan' to
35:12

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Heard Island  thinking that things would proceed smoothly while Heard Island  thinking that things would proceed smoothly while
35:17

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we were away and we got back they had all sorts of equipment, and the way of getting this we were away and we got back they had all sorts of equipment, and the way of getting this
35:23

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thing up this escarpment was for someone to climb up thing up this escarpment was for someone to climb up
35:30

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carrying steel fencing posts and pulleys and carrying steel fencing posts and pulleys and
35:37

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wire, that was me. So I went up with a backpack on my back with a, with a, with wire, that was me. So I went up with a backpack on my back with a, with a, with
35:44

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the wire thing and the wire thing and
35:47

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a sledgehammer, and at the top I drove the star pickets into the ground, a sledgehammer, and at the top I drove the star pickets into the ground,
35:54

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organised the pulleys, threaded the steel wire rope and then descended through all organised the pulleys, threaded the steel wire rope and then descended through all
35:59

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this rotten tussock grass down to the beach and we had this rotten tussock grass down to the beach and we had
36:03

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an aluminum sled.  And everything was supposed to be sledded up on the aluminum sled an aluminum sled.  And everything was supposed to be sledded up on the aluminum sled
36:08

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which only proceeded which only proceeded
36:09

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about ten metres before toppled over in the rough tussocks, so we found it impossible about ten metres before toppled over in the rough tussocks, so we found it impossible
36:15

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to do this after I'd climbed that escarpment twice. And so we to do this after I'd climbed that escarpment twice. And so we
36:22

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built the hut on the beach, ah, then built the hut on the beach, ah, then
36:30

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we, it was important, the the pontoon, after we got all the stores off the pontoon we, it was important, the the pontoon, after we got all the stores off the pontoon
36:36

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capsized it still had capsized it still had
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a lot of 44 gallon drums on board and I was in the water underneath the pontoon a lot of 44 gallon drums on board and I was in the water underneath the pontoon
36:44

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with 44 gallon drums, crashing around me.  I was wearing with 44 gallon drums, crashing around me.  I was wearing
36:49

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a life jacket and I was a life jacket and I was
36:51

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a good swimmer, so I got out of that, and we decided that ah it a good swimmer, so I got out of that, and we decided that ah it
36:58

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wasn't going to be possible to get off at circumstance, so we got a boat wasn't going to be possible to get off at circumstance, so we got a boat
37:05

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in and the boat towed the pontoon empty back to the 'Tottan' and lifted it on board and in and the boat towed the pontoon empty back to the 'Tottan' and lifted it on board and
37:12

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there's,  about four of there's,  about four of
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us stayed on the shore and slept in the open in our wet submarine suits and we walked all us stayed on the shore and slept in the open in our wet submarine suits and we walked all
37:22

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the way back to er, to Buckles Bay, to the main station.  [Ingrid]  Which is about 27  the way back to er, to Buckles Bay, to the main station.  [Ingrid]  Which is about 27 
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miles?  [Dick]  Yeh,  we slept in the open  miles?  [Dick]  Yeh,  we slept in the open 
37:30

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overnight.  And er, so, ah, ah yes. overnight.  And er, so, ah, ah yes.
37:38

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At Heard, at Heard Island we'd had difficulties At Heard, at Heard Island we'd had difficulties
37:45

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it was,  I believe I faced more danger in the, in the Antarctic from the sea it was,  I believe I faced more danger in the, in the Antarctic from the sea
37:53

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and from landing operations than I ever did in war, even though we were shelled on and from landing operations than I ever did in war, even though we were shelled on
37:58

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many occasions by Japanese ships and we were shooting back at them. In my navy many occasions by Japanese ships and we were shooting back at them. In my navy
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experience but there was certainly seafaring operations in, off Mac... Heard and experience but there was certainly seafaring operations in, off Mac... Heard and
38:09

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Macquarie Island and Antarctica itself was far more dangerous [Ingrid] What sort of gear would you be Macquarie Island and Antarctica itself was far more dangerous [Ingrid] What sort of gear would you be
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wearing for these operations?  [Dick]  Well we,  we had these, we had what  wearing for these operations?  [Dick]  Well we,  we had these, we had what 
38:21

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the Royal Navy called the Royal Navy called
38:23

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a submarine suit and it was devised during World War 2 and it was just a submarine suit and it was devised during World War 2 and it was just
38:29

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a straight forward pair of pant with braces, with the elastic around the bottom and a straight forward pair of pant with braces, with the elastic around the bottom and
38:35

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a jacket with a jacket with
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elastic waistbands and it was heavily oiled, it was cotton material was heavily elastic waistbands and it was heavily oiled, it was cotton material was heavily
38:41

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oiled. And so I could, once we got hold of these I was I able oiled. And so I could, once we got hold of these I was I able
38:48

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to stay out all day, yes I was wet but, um unless to stay out all day, yes I was wet but, um unless
38:55

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I was dumped into the water, which happened on I was dumped into the water, which happened on
38:58

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a number of occasions, water got in, you were able to work all right a number of occasions, water got in, you were able to work all right
39:05

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in in
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the submarine suit was an invaluable um thing, it was quite, er rather the submarine suit was an invaluable um thing, it was quite, er rather
39:13

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heavy and intractable but it worked all right.  [Ingrid] Dick you mentioned you were involved heavy and intractable but it worked all right.  [Ingrid] Dick you mentioned you were involved
39:17

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with the depositing of the materials for the Hurd Point hut.  Were you actually involved with the depositing of the materials for the Hurd Point hut.  Were you actually involved
39:23

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with the building of the hut,  the initial hut there.  [Dick] Yes, mm.  [Ingrid]  Can you tell me with the building of the hut,  the initial hut there.  [Dick] Yes, mm.  [Ingrid]  Can you tell me
39:27

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a little bit about that, what you made it out of, and the sort of structure it was? [Dick] Well, well with a little bit about that, what you made it out of, and the sort of structure it was? [Dick] Well, well with
39:32

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we, we, we just, we just ordinary, ah. We used oregon for lightness. we, we, we just, we just ordinary, ah. We used oregon for lightness.
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If you're in Sydney when those days, you would find that most houses were built of If you're in Sydney when those days, you would find that most houses were built of
39:45

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oregon because of our oregon because of our
39:46

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the proximity across the Pacific to where it came from, whereas in Melbourne with its the proximity across the Pacific to where it came from, whereas in Melbourne with its
39:51

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vast reserves of mountain ash in the Australian Alps, not so far away, houses were built of vast reserves of mountain ash in the Australian Alps, not so far away, houses were built of
39:57

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hard wood so we,  we had, so we used light oregon for the frame, hard wood so we,  we had, so we used light oregon for the frame,
40:05

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and we, all the pieces we had to put outside, were just and we, all the pieces we had to put outside, were just
40:12

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corrugated iron and nailed to that , a lean to roof and a water tank, corrugated iron and nailed to that , a lean to roof and a water tank,
40:19

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and spouting.  It was all very simple and that was,  the whole idea was that the cosmic ray and spouting.  It was all very simple and that was,  the whole idea was that the cosmic ray
40:24

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people were going to sit up there on the escarpment with nothing between them and the people were going to sit up there on the escarpment with nothing between them and the
40:29

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sky, see whereas in fact, it had to be built on the beach, because of that, you know.  [Ingrid] So at that sky, see whereas in fact, it had to be built on the beach, because of that, you know.  [Ingrid] So at that
40:35

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stage, you built just the one hut, there was not store hut or additional huts?   [Dick] No, no, no.   [Ingrid]  The other story I've heard  stage, you built just the one hut, there was not store hut or additional huts?   [Dick] No, no, no.   [Ingrid]  The other story I've heard 
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is that on one occasion you tried to land building materials at Bauer Bay, on the   is that on one occasion you tried to land building materials at Bauer Bay, on the  
40:47

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west coast and it was so rough that  nothing could be landed.  Can you tell me west coast and it was so rough that  nothing could be landed.  Can you tell me
40:52

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a little bit about that story?  [Dick] Well, you know it's so long  a little bit about that story?  [Dick] Well, you know it's so long 
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ago, that yes, I was there,  but no we couldn't get in, it was, it was just, just  too ago, that yes, I was there,  but no we couldn't get in, it was, it was just, just  too
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bad and it was me who made the decision, we couldn't go. It was my decision in most of these cases bad and it was me who made the decision, we couldn't go. It was my decision in most of these cases
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whether we land or not, and so I said we're not going to get in, we've can't do it. So whether we land or not, and so I said we're not going to get in, we've can't do it. So
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we just got towed back to the ship and yes, we've, I've  been down that west coast we just got towed back to the ship and yes, we've, I've  been down that west coast
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a number of occasions,  sometimes the seas a number of occasions,  sometimes the seas
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were so bad in Buckles Bay that we thought we'd try the other side, but at no stage was there  were so bad in Buckles Bay that we thought we'd try the other side, but at no stage was there 
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any good, no stage.  [Ingrid] Were you involved with any other landings down the island?  any good, no stage.  [Ingrid] Were you involved with any other landings down the island? 
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Well I've had, at Buckles Bay I, I've, I've tried to land Well I've had, at Buckles Bay I, I've, I've tried to land
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at Hasselborough Bay on the other side unsuccessfully,  I've tried to land at Hasselborough Bay on the other side unsuccessfully,  I've tried to land
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at Bauer Bay unsuccessfully, I've landed at Sandy Bay and I've landed at Lusitania Bay at Bauer Bay unsuccessfully, I've landed at Sandy Bay and I've landed at Lusitania Bay
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and I've landed at Hurd Point and they're all rotten. [Ingrid] Can you and I've landed at Hurd Point and they're all rotten. [Ingrid] Can you
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contrast that with the landing at Mawson?  [Dick] Yes, yes Mawson, Mawson was contrast that with the landing at Mawson?  [Dick] Yes, yes Mawson, Mawson was
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Mawson was Mawson was
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a different kettle of fish completely. In our first year at Mawson we a different kettle of fish completely. In our first year at Mawson we
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found blue ice, found blue ice,
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at little Horseshoe Harbour, was blue ice with a pebbly type of, of um, of surface at little Horseshoe Harbour, was blue ice with a pebbly type of, of um, of surface
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and so the 'Kista Dan' cut its way in, we then unloaded and so the 'Kista Dan' cut its way in, we then unloaded
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all of the stores over the side onto sledges.  We had all of the stores over the side onto sledges.  We had
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a number of these Norwegian cargo sledges, ah they were very useful and we had the a number of these Norwegian cargo sledges, ah they were very useful and we had the
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weasels towing them, across the ice and up the rocky shore weasels towing them, across the ice and up the rocky shore
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where they were physically unloaded, so in the space of  where they were physically unloaded, so in the space of 
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a week we unloaded 400 tons, physically the um a week we unloaded 400 tons, physically the um
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ship's crew worked in the hold, very good crew, the Danes and the Norwegians were ship's crew worked in the hold, very good crew, the Danes and the Norwegians were
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both excellent sailors and excellent people to be on expedition with. both excellent sailors and excellent people to be on expedition with.
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So they would do all the  So they would do all the 
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cargo handling inside the hold.  They'd swing it out,  the first mate and I,  cargo handling inside the hold.  They'd swing it out,  the first mate and I, 
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Kristen Nicholson, with the ??? people on the ice.  We swung every bit of cargo out Kristen Nicholson, with the ??? people on the ice.  We swung every bit of cargo out
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and loaded it on the sledges.  And that included  all the drums, once again we're in the and loaded it on the sledges.  And that included  all the drums, once again we're in the
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situation of hundreds of drums, and for Mawson we were landing two years of supplies situation of hundreds of drums, and for Mawson we were landing two years of supplies
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in the very first year, ah against the risk that we may not be able to in the very first year, ah against the risk that we may not be able to
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get back in, in the  second year.  So they were supplied with two years of everything. get back in, in the  second year.  So they were supplied with two years of everything.
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Of fuel and of food and all the necessary equipment. So all of that material Of fuel and of food and all the necessary equipment. So all of that material
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was physically handled by, ah, so I worked on the ice every was physically handled by, ah, so I worked on the ice every
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day from about four in the morning until nine at  day from about four in the morning until nine at 
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night, and we worked those hours while the weather was there, and we unloaded all the night, and we worked those hours while the weather was there, and we unloaded all the
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equipment, ah which included the first of the ex-plastics huts.  It  was the equipment, ah which included the first of the ex-plastics huts.  It  was the
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Norwegian, British, Swedish expedition hut that Philip bought. And that was to be  Norwegian, British, Swedish expedition hut that Philip bought. And that was to be 
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it was called Biscoe,  and that was to be the headquarters, sleeping and living it was called Biscoe,  and that was to be the headquarters, sleeping and living
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accommodation.  Another hut was to be built.  would be  accommodation.  Another hut was to be built.  would be 
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Explastics, that was the name of the firm.  E-X-P-L-A-S-T-I  Explastics, that was the name of the firm.  E-X-P-L-A-S-T-I 
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C-K-S,  who made cold-rooms, and that was to be the doctor's headquarters and C-K-S,  who made cold-rooms, and that was to be the doctor's headquarters and
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the scientific headquarters.  The rest of the buildings were all prefab ones that we'd the scientific headquarters.  The rest of the buildings were all prefab ones that we'd
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actually made actually made
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at Tottenham, and so we knew we could put them together.   And now once again, they were of,  at Tottenham, and so we knew we could put them together.   And now once again, they were of, 
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of oregon frames with the plywood outside,  they weren't heated of oregon frames with the plywood outside,  they weren't heated
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and so all of those, all, every bit of that equipment was sledged through to and so all of those, all, every bit of that equipment was sledged through to
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the edge of the ice, which is where the rocky shelf commences, the edge of the ice, which is where the rocky shelf commences,
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and we would tow the sledges to and we would tow the sledges to
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a bit of the way and after it was all handled  physically, and we did, we erected a, we a bit of the way and after it was all handled  physically, and we did, we erected a, we
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erected an A-frame gantry so that we could drive the things underneath, this was  erected an A-frame gantry so that we could drive the things underneath, this was 
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following year and lift things, but ah. So that, that was the first following year and lift things, but ah. So that, that was the first
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year, in fact, that was from year, in fact, that was from
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a cargo handling point of view not bad.  After we'd finished cargo handling the ship's a cargo handling point of view not bad.  After we'd finished cargo handling the ship's
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captain just got the crew painting the ship, and there they were walking around the ship captain just got the crew painting the ship, and there they were walking around the ship
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painting on, on the sea ice.  All the other years I went to Mawson after that, it was painting on, on the sea ice.  All the other years I went to Mawson after that, it was
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open water and we had good weather.  It was calm and by that time we had  open water and we had good weather.  It was calm and by that time we had 
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ducks.  Now the army ducks just swing the cargo in, but there's, you know, six foot  ducks.  Now the army ducks just swing the cargo in, but there's, you know, six foot 
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above the ground when you get them ashore and so you've got to physically  above the ground when you get them ashore and so you've got to physically 
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unload them out of the duck and onto, onto, onto the the rock, and so it's just unload them out of the duck and onto, onto, onto the the rock, and so it's just
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physically hard work. Ah, and so physically hard work. Ah, and so
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yes it was hard work,  that was it,  it was, it was yes it was hard work,  that was it,  it was, it was
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a lot simpler the first year because we were unloading on the ice.  But when we got bad a lot simpler the first year because we were unloading on the ice.  But when we got bad
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weather, when the blizzards weather, when the blizzards
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came, we couldn't work because of the state of the sea and so, you know, we'd work came, we couldn't work because of the state of the sea and so, you know, we'd work
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ashore, we'd work with ashore, we'd work with
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if we could.  We couldn't work the ship. [Ingrid] How was the site, the site of Mawson selected?   if we could.  We couldn't work the ship. [Ingrid] How was the site, the site of Mawson selected?  
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Well there had been the Operation High Jump, after World War 2 Well there had been the Operation High Jump, after World War 2
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I don't know what year it was, might have been '48, but a U.S.  I don't know what year it was, might have been '48, but a U.S. 
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Navy aircraft carrier group sailed  around the Southern Ocean out Navy aircraft carrier group sailed  around the Southern Ocean out
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of the ice, they didn't go into the ice at all,  and photo of the ice, they didn't go into the ice at all,  and photo
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graphed the coastline of Antarctica and Phil had these aerial photographs graphed the coastline of Antarctica and Phil had these aerial photographs
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and he had rough charts which had been made by and he had rough charts which had been made by
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a Norwegian sealers.  Now most cases they never got ashore, they were,  they'd get in through a Norwegian sealers.  Now most cases they never got ashore, they were,  they'd get in through
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the ice barrier. Ah, but they, they were interested in whales, they weren't interested in the ice barrier. Ah, but they, they were interested in whales, they weren't interested in
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exploration, but they used to make sketches of coastline so we had that too.  And so exploration, but they used to make sketches of coastline so we had that too.  And so
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it was ah essential, far more desirable, it was essential that we it was ah essential, far more desirable, it was essential that we
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build our, our station on rock. Because to build build our, our station on rock. Because to build
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it on ice, means if you eventually sink by means of ablation through the,  through it on ice, means if you eventually sink by means of ablation through the,  through
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the ice, which is what happened to the Wilkes Station, the U.S., ah original station the ice, which is what happened to the Wilkes Station, the U.S., ah original station
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there, and so we were looking for there, and so we were looking for
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a place which had ah what looked like a place which had ah what looked like
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a harbour and enough rock and this was it, Horseshoe Harbour,  as Phil called it. a harbour and enough rock and this was it, Horseshoe Harbour,  as Phil called it.
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And that's proven excellent, an excellent place, one of the few places of And that's proven excellent, an excellent place, one of the few places of
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any expanse of rock.  It's only a few acres, a few, a couple of acres anyway any expanse of rock.  It's only a few acres, a few, a couple of acres anyway
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in the whole of that long, pretty dull coastline. You know, when you go down to in the whole of that long, pretty dull coastline. You know, when you go down to
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Scullin Scullin
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and Murray Monoliths further down, well they're vertical things jumping out of the water. and Murray Monoliths further down, well they're vertical things jumping out of the water.
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They're not places you can land at all and that was another experience I had with They're not places you can land at all and that was another experience I had with
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Phil Law, he wanted to land it at Scullin Phil Law, he wanted to land it at Scullin
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Monolith, but ah. So we were fortunate in, in, but he did have the aerial Monolith, but ah. So we were fortunate in, in, but he did have the aerial
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photograph of it.  [Ingrid] Can you... just in the last part of this conversation can you tell me photograph of it.  [Ingrid] Can you... just in the last part of this conversation can you tell me
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a little bit about that time you spent in Mawson when they were setting up a little bit about that time you spent in Mawson when they were setting up
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the station for the very first time?  [Dick]  Yes. Ah, the, the the station for the very first time?  [Dick]  Yes. Ah, the, the
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first... what we did, we had these things called barge first... what we did, we had these things called barge
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caravans which were er, things, er shaped caravans which were er, things, er shaped
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like an egg really, but with a lift off the top. So half was underneath and half was like an egg really, but with a lift off the top. So half was underneath and half was
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on top and the whole idea was on top and the whole idea was
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that these, there were two of those and these were to be living quarters while the hats were that these, there were two of those and these were to be living quarters while the hats were
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being built, and so we dragged those ashore and the being built, and so we dragged those ashore and the
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whole idea was to that they, they would have this is temporary living quarters until they'd whole idea was to that they, they would have this is temporary living quarters until they'd
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built Bisco. And when you've built Bisco you can start building, built Bisco. And when you've built Bisco you can start building,
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you've got yourself living quarters,  you can start to build the other ones and so the you've got yourself living quarters,  you can start to build the other ones and so the
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ah, but the, the main, main part of the operation ah, but the, the main, main part of the operation
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was to get all of the stores ashore, because at this stage you don't know how the was to get all of the stores ashore, because at this stage you don't know how the
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weather's going to operate.  While we were in good weather, and the thing was the over weather's going to operate.  While we were in good weather, and the thing was the over
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whelming priority was to get all the stores ashore, onto the rock. whelming priority was to get all the stores ashore, onto the rock.
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Once we got that, we could start any kind of building. So, some of the people living Once we got that, we could start any kind of building. So, some of the people living
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on board and some were living in the barge caravans, they were just sleeping in them, on board and some were living in the barge caravans, they were just sleeping in them,
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they couldn't do anything else, they'd come back on board to have meals  they couldn't do anything else, they'd come back on board to have meals 
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and having done that,  with, we,  having got everything ashore we concentrated   and having done that,  with, we,  having got everything ashore we concentrated  
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on building Bisco and Lem Macey and I put up the radio masts, uh he on building Bisco and Lem Macey and I put up the radio masts, uh he
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and I, together, the two of us.  The  Kelly and Louis slotted steel masts and and I, together, the two of us.  The  Kelly and Louis slotted steel masts and
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they had been used successfully at Heard and Macquarie Island, and many, and in many other places and they had been used successfully at Heard and Macquarie Island, and many, and in many other places and
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so Lem and I put the radio mast up while the work was going on, so we were in so Lem and I put the radio mast up while the work was going on, so we were in
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radio communication pretty quickly.  [Ingrid]  Fantastic.  Dick we might  just have radio communication pretty quickly.  [Ingrid]  Fantastic.  Dick we might  just have
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a short break and then come back to talk about your time at Scullin, Scullin Monolith and  a short break and then come back to talk about your time at Scullin, Scullin Monolith and 
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also I guess some of the shoals and underwater hazards around Mawson.  [Dick]  Yeah, yeah.  Would you like  also I guess some of the shoals and underwater hazards around Mawson.  [Dick]  Yeah, yeah.  Would you like 
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a couple. a couple.