Amplify

Transcription Conventions		Examples
Language	English (Australian)	“Colour” not “Color”, “Organise” not “Organize”
Contractions	Transcribe as you hear them	“Shoulda”, “Didn’t”
Numbers	Transcribe as numerals	“11 West 40th Street”
Filled Pauses & Hesitations	Transcribe as you hear them	“ah”, “eh”, “um”
Noise	Transcribe in brackets; use descriptive language	“And then we [door slam]”, “So cold! [Brrrrr]”
Partial words	If someone stops speaking in the middle of a word, transcribe as much of the word as they say; follow it with a dash	“Tes- Testing”, “Absolu- Absolutely”
Hard-to-understand	For speech that is difficult or impossible to understand, use question marks before and after	“And she told me that ?I should just leave?”, “Her name was ?inaudible?”
Change of speaker	Sometimes multiple people will speak on the same line. Use square brackets to indicate change of speaker.	[John] Yes, it was a very interesting time. [Susan] And what have you learnt from it?

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Klekociuk. My name is Ingrid McGaughey it's the 29th of August 2011 Klekociuk. My name is Ingrid McGaughey it's the 29th of August 2011

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and I'm having a discussion with Andrew Klekociuk. Andrew, as we've and I'm having a discussion with Andrew Klekociuk. Andrew, as we've

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already talked about, was in Macquarie Island in 1988, 91-92 summer but also has spent some already talked about, was in Macquarie Island in 1988, 91-92 summer but also has spent some

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time at Mawson and Davis. He was at Mawson in 90-91 summer and then had time at Mawson and Davis. He was at Mawson in 90-91 summer and then had

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a further 5 summers in Davis which we are going to talk about during this time. Andrew, can you tell a further 5 summers in Davis which we are going to talk about during this time. Andrew, can you tell

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me me

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a little bit 1st of all about your time at Mawson? [AK] Yeah well that was ah pretty exciting time a little bit 1st of all about your time at Mawson? [AK] Yeah well that was ah pretty exciting time

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as well because um, ah, prior to going there I'd, I'd only been as well because um, ah, prior to going there I'd, I'd only been

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at Macquarie Island and as far south as Macquarie Island but I was given the opportunity to set up at Macquarie Island and as far south as Macquarie Island but I was given the opportunity to set up

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a scientific experiment at Mawson which related to the work I'd been doing at a scientific experiment at Mawson which related to the work I'd been doing at

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Macquarie Island to look at auroras and as it turned out the opportunity arose to go Macquarie Island to look at auroras and as it turned out the opportunity arose to go

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to Mawson on the 1st ice voyage of the Aurora Australis which was doubly exciting as to Mawson on the 1st ice voyage of the Aurora Australis which was doubly exciting as

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well because the ship had never been into ice and it had been to well because the ship had never been into ice and it had been to

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Heard Island on essentially a trial of marine science sort of voyage earlier in the season Heard Island on essentially a trial of marine science sort of voyage earlier in the season

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but yeah but the opportunity arose to be there and it was quite but yeah but the opportunity arose to be there and it was quite

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exciting because I remember when we got to the ice we had on board an ice exciting because I remember when we got to the ice we had on board an ice

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specialist from, it might have been from Norway, or at least from specialist from, it might have been from Norway, or at least from

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a European country anyway. And this person, I can't remember his name but he had been with the Antarctic a European country anyway. And this person, I can't remember his name but he had been with the Antarctic

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Program previously, he'd been on the Icebird and um had Program previously, he'd been on the Icebird and um had

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a lot of knowledge and a lot of knowledge of northern ice conditions too, so a lot of knowledge and a lot of knowledge of northern ice conditions too, so

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anyway he was a great amount, anyway he was a great amount,

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ah, amount, source of information we, you know, were up there on the bridge chatting away and all that sort of ah, amount, source of information we, you know, were up there on the bridge chatting away and all that sort of

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stuff and then when we got to the ice everybody was up on the bridge just seeing stuff and then when we got to the ice everybody was up on the bridge just seeing

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how the ship would break through the ice and, you know, it was quite tentative how the ship would break through the ice and, you know, it was quite tentative

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initially, of course the crew on the Aurora Australis had no ice experience so there was initially, of course the crew on the Aurora Australis had no ice experience so there was

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this need to hand over all the specialised information, you know, how many different types this need to hand over all the specialised information, you know, how many different types

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of snow and ice there are... its amazing. Anyway so you know we broke little bits of of snow and ice there are... its amazing. Anyway so you know we broke little bits of

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ice then we started breaking thicker and thicker ice and then we became, you know, ice then we started breaking thicker and thicker ice and then we became, you know,

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quite proficient at this and we- but the trip that I was on we, uh, it was quite proficient at this and we- but the trip that I was on we, uh, it was

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a demonstration essentially of the AA's capability, and we were going to go to a demonstration essentially of the AA's capability, and we were going to go to

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Casey, break into the ice Casey, break into the ice

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at Casey very early in the season and then get out and then go down to at Casey very early in the season and then get out and then go down to

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Mawson and the ship was going to go to Davis. Now when I went to Macquarie Island in Mawson and the ship was going to go to Davis. Now when I went to Macquarie Island in

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1991 we actually went on the Icebird and managed to get ourselves stuck in the ice 1991 we actually went on the Icebird and managed to get ourselves stuck in the ice

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off Casey for 3 weeks going in and 3 weeks going out. And that was quite an off Casey for 3 weeks going in and 3 weeks going out. And that was quite an

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interesting time as well but ah, so we thought well what's the Aurora going to do when it interesting time as well but ah, so we thought well what's the Aurora going to do when it

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gets to Casey gets to Casey

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and they had no trouble. I guess you know in some years the ice conditions in the Peterson and they had no trouble. I guess you know in some years the ice conditions in the Peterson

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Bank mean that there's a lot of pressure there. And anyway the AA had Bank mean that there's a lot of pressure there. And anyway the AA had

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a pretty easy run getting in. We got into Casey, I remember we actually a pretty easy run getting in. We got into Casey, I remember we actually

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broke into some fairly thick ice out in front of the station, got more quite close broke into some fairly thick ice out in front of the station, got more quite close

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to the station as it turned out... you could actually see the buildings. I think there was some fast ice to the station as it turned out... you could actually see the buildings. I think there was some fast ice

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we broke into just to see how the ship would go. And then we went off out we broke into just to see how the ship would go. And then we went off out

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to Mawson and I remember the ship actually taking quite to Mawson and I remember the ship actually taking quite

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a southerly path through the ice and the thing that sticks in my mind is not a southerly path through the ice and the thing that sticks in my mind is not

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long after leaving Casey long after leaving Casey

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is being out on this white desert, the ship breaking is being out on this white desert, the ship breaking

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through very solid pack ice which had through very solid pack ice which had

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a lot of snow on it. And in fact I have some photos that show the ship just a lot of snow on it. And in fact I have some photos that show the ship just

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surrounded by continuous white, you can't see any leads in this, you know, fantastic surrounded by continuous white, you can't see any leads in this, you know, fantastic

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ship breaking through all this ice. It started to get ship breaking through all this ice. It started to get

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a bit thicker as I recall and it made sleeping a bit thicker as I recall and it made sleeping

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a bit difficult so the breaking ice at night and so on and not going out through the a bit difficult so the breaking ice at night and so on and not going out through the

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pack and I remember we pulled up in the evening, as they do still today obviously pack and I remember we pulled up in the evening, as they do still today obviously

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for, uh, when it's dark and then, uh, starting up the engine... I think it must have been for, uh, when it's dark and then, uh, starting up the engine... I think it must have been

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3, 3 or 4 in the morning because we usually got woken by that sort of thing 3, 3 or 4 in the morning because we usually got woken by that sort of thing

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but, uh, on this occasion it was but, uh, on this occasion it was

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a bit different because the fire alarms were sounding. And I remember being in the a bit different because the fire alarms were sounding. And I remember being in the

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cabin with Damian Murphy and Tony Oetterli and Tony cabin with Damian Murphy and Tony Oetterli and Tony

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and I woke up soon as the the the bells went off and so up on our respective bunks and I woke up soon as the the the bells went off and so up on our respective bunks

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and then we sort of well started to put our, you know, muster gear, emergency muster and then we sort of well started to put our, you know, muster gear, emergency muster

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muster gear muster gear

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gear on and then I remember Da-, looking over at Damian and Damian still sort of partially gear on and then I remember Da-, looking over at Damian and Damian still sort of partially

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asleep and having to wake him up to get him out of the, his bunk and we all, yeah we all asleep and having to wake him up to get him out of the, his bunk and we all, yeah we all

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had to muster and there was smoke in the cabin at that stage and what had happened had to muster and there was smoke in the cabin at that stage and what had happened

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was that in, uh, busting up all this ice and getting the engine running I think they was that in, uh, busting up all this ice and getting the engine running I think they

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had some problems with the coupling between the 2 engines, they had to run 2 engines, had some problems with the coupling between the 2 engines, they had to run 2 engines,

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and basically the coupling had overheated and caught fire and filled the ship with and basically the coupling had overheated and caught fire and filled the ship with

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smoke and yeah we all had to muster on the back deck of the ship while this was sorted out. smoke and yeah we all had to muster on the back deck of the ship while this was sorted out.

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It took It took

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a few hours and then we eventually got back into our cabins after the fire had been put a few hours and then we eventually got back into our cabins after the fire had been put

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out and so on but basically after that we only had one engine that we could run to get out and so on but basically after that we only had one engine that we could run to get

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get to Mawson and that made a fair bit of a get to Mawson and that made a fair bit of a

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a change in, in our activities and no longer were we gung-ho busting across white plains of a change in, in our activities and no longer were we gung-ho busting across white plains of

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ice but we had to find the open water pretty quickly. [laughs] Anyway, we got to Mawson and ice but we had to find the open water pretty quickly. [laughs] Anyway, we got to Mawson and

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that also restricted that also restricted

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a bit of what we could do because they didn't want to get too close to Mawson a bit of what we could do because they didn't want to get too close to Mawson

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with the ship and we were out at maximum fly-off range and as it turned out it with the ship and we were out at maximum fly-off range and as it turned out it

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was the 1st summer that they'd used the refurbished Squirrel helicopters that were put was the 1st summer that they'd used the refurbished Squirrel helicopters that were put

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together from the helicopter spaghetti... or salad, that happened on together from the helicopter spaghetti... or salad, that happened on

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the Icebird voyage in 1989, where I think 4 helicopters were smashed to smithereens the Icebird voyage in 1989, where I think 4 helicopters were smashed to smithereens

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in the hold of the the Icebird, the Polar Bird as it was back then I guess . in the hold of the the Icebird, the Polar Bird as it was back then I guess .

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Anyway so these, this was the 1st flight and I think I was on SRB, ah, one of the Anyway so these, this was the 1st flight and I think I was on SRB, ah, one of the

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helicopters that's still used today with Pip Turner the pilot and we were right at helicopters that's still used today with Pip Turner the pilot and we were right at

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the maximum fly-frame. So that was fantastic too because it was quite the maximum fly-frame. So that was fantastic too because it was quite

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a long flight into Mawson. It was over an hour, probably an hour and a a long flight into Mawson. It was over an hour, probably an hour and a

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half or something like that and made more exciting I guess on takeoff by the fact half or something like that and made more exciting I guess on takeoff by the fact

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that Pip was playing some Wagner, as- as he used to do, over the intercom system. that Pip was playing some Wagner, as- as he used to do, over the intercom system.

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So that was quite an interesting trip in its own right. [IM] Was it a So that was quite an interesting trip in its own right. [IM] Was it a

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particular Wagner piece? [AK] Well it was Flight of the Valk-... [IM] Valkyries. [AK] ...Valkyries, yeah that's right so particular Wagner piece? [AK] Well it was Flight of the Valk-... [IM] Valkyries. [AK] ...Valkyries, yeah that's right so

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yeah that was quite exciting. So that was an interesting introduction to Mawson yeah that was quite exciting. So that was an interesting introduction to Mawson

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actually coming in on actually coming in on

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a helicopter after having the sort of interesting voyage as it was already on the a helicopter after having the sort of interesting voyage as it was already on the

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Aurora Australis which had some problems. And um, food: the food of course on the Aurora was Aurora Australis which had some problems. And um, food: the food of course on the Aurora was

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fantastic. Chris ?Dookie? was the chef at that stage and Chris had run a fantastic. Chris ?Dookie? was the chef at that stage and Chris had run a

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a restaurant in Hobart that I used to like to go to, anyway that's a restaurant in Hobart that I used to like to go to, anyway that's

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an aside, but um, yeah, getting into Mawson was fantastic and seeing these mountains an aside, but um, yeah, getting into Mawson was fantastic and seeing these mountains

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looming out of the plateau looming out of the plateau

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from the long distance that was great. That summer was quite exciting too. We from the long distance that was great. That summer was quite exciting too. We

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had dogs at Mawson. We knew the dogs were coming out fairly soon because of the had dogs at Mawson. We knew the dogs were coming out fairly soon because of the

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changes in the Madrid Protocol, but I managed to spend changes in the Madrid Protocol, but I managed to spend

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a bit of time with the dogs. I'd never been a bit of time with the dogs. I'd never been

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a dog person, I hadn't grown up with large dogs so, you know, a dog person, I hadn't grown up with large dogs so, you know,

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I was, you know, just interested in seeing what they did and of course the I was, you know, just interested in seeing what they did and of course the

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history of the dogs was very well known so... Pene Greet was our Physicist there from Mawson history of the dogs was very well known so... Pene Greet was our Physicist there from Mawson

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Institute for Antarctic Research: She was the dog handler. Going in Institute for Antarctic Research: She was the dog handler. Going in

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for that winter was Maria de Deuge and she was another dog handler and there quite for that winter was Maria de Deuge and she was another dog handler and there quite

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a few other people involved in dogs. And I- I kind of got interested and a few other people involved in dogs. And I- I kind of got interested and

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involved with them. Stewie Hodges also was: He was involved with them. Stewie Hodges also was: He was

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our carpenter for that summer and the winter and he was quite involved with dogs and so our carpenter for that summer and the winter and he was quite involved with dogs and so

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through those people I ended up running with the dogs in the evenings, just to get through those people I ended up running with the dogs in the evenings, just to get

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a bit of training, what they did and that was great, was always, you know, a bit of training, what they did and that was great, was always, you know,

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interesting getting on and off the sled. We just had instep crampons on and interesting getting on and off the sled. We just had instep crampons on and

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just getting off the sled, off a moving sled onto stationary ice, you know, I just getting off the sled, off a moving sled onto stationary ice, you know, I

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fell over a few times. You eventually worked out how to do it. So then fell over a few times. You eventually worked out how to do it. So then

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Paul Gigg, 'Giggles'... one of the comms guys; Stewie, myself and Bill Paul Gigg, 'Giggles'... one of the comms guys; Stewie, myself and Bill

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Collins, one of the sparkies, decided to go on Collins, one of the sparkies, decided to go on

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a dog trip and we decided to go up to Low Tongue a dog trip and we decided to go up to Low Tongue

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the dogs one afternoon and to pitch some tents there and then spend the night and come the dogs one afternoon and to pitch some tents there and then spend the night and come

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back. Anyway, what happened was, um, that we- we took off in the afternoon- about 3 in the back. Anyway, what happened was, um, that we- we took off in the afternoon- about 3 in the

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afternoon-and we ran up the coast and there was just a lot of afternoon-and we ran up the coast and there was just a lot of

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wildlife everywhere and pretty much before we got to Low Tongue we actually wildlife everywhere and pretty much before we got to Low Tongue we actually

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came across quite came across quite

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a big tide crack with lots of Seals around. The dogs were a big tide crack with lots of Seals around. The dogs were

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really hard to control because of that. Anyway we made the decision this with really hard to control because of that. Anyway we made the decision this with

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about 10 in the evening... not to get to Low Tongue to camp, and to come back to the about 10 in the evening... not to get to Low Tongue to camp, and to come back to the

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station. And so basically who we, we'd run something like station. And so basically who we, we'd run something like

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oh... must have been about 7 hours up there and then we decided to come all the way back to the station. oh... must have been about 7 hours up there and then we decided to come all the way back to the station.

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And so that was quite an epic trip. In those days, yes... I was quite And so that was quite an epic trip. In those days, yes... I was quite

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a bit fitter and got to remember it being pretty exhausting. We got into the station a bit fitter and got to remember it being pretty exhausting. We got into the station

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about 3 in the morning or something like that after this enormously long dog about 3 in the morning or something like that after this enormously long dog

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trip. [laughs] Quite exciting though, and that year that was... I didn't take any trip. [laughs] Quite exciting though, and that year that was... I didn't take any

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photos on that trip simply because I- we were just running all the time pretty much... photos on that trip simply because I- we were just running all the time pretty much...

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Running or sitting on the sled so it was an interesting trip. We also had Running or sitting on the sled so it was an interesting trip. We also had

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a trip down to Auster in the Haggs... not long before that, so it was just a trip down to Auster in the Haggs... not long before that, so it was just

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a great introduction to Antarctica for me. The other thing we did back in those days a great introduction to Antarctica for me. The other thing we did back in those days

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we had some very mad-keen skiers and we made we had some very mad-keen skiers and we made

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a point out of going up to Fischer Nunatak each weekend and in fact I think I was at a point out of going up to Fischer Nunatak each weekend and in fact I think I was at

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Mawson for about 15 weeks and on 13 of those I went out Mawson for about 15 weeks and on 13 of those I went out

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on skiing trips up to Fischer Nunatak. In fact the whole station pretty much went on skiing trips up to Fischer Nunatak. In fact the whole station pretty much went

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at various times. I remember it- we had... it took at various times. I remember it- we had... it took

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a Hagg... Hagglund out there - you could be in the back of the Hagglund in those days a Hagg... Hagglund out there - you could be in the back of the Hagglund in those days

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so we had... [IM] So in the 2nd so we had... [IM] So in the 2nd

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2nd cabin. [AK] ...in the 2nd cabin, yeah, we had, you know, the front cabin full and then 2nd cabin. [AK] ...in the 2nd cabin, yeah, we had, you know, the front cabin full and then

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in the back cabin we had maybe 5-6 people and 3 dogs and then some dogs will run in the back cabin we had maybe 5-6 people and 3 dogs and then some dogs will run

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there as a team pulling there as a team pulling

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a sled or 2, we had people on quad bikes, people cross-country a sled or 2, we had people on quad bikes, people cross-country

12:28

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skiing out there. Yeah, pretty much any way you could get out there, you got out there and in fact skiing out there. Yeah, pretty much any way you could get out there, you got out there and in fact

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I think there might have only been 1 or 2 people left on station pretty much each I think there might have only been 1 or 2 people left on station pretty much each

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Sunday. So that was fantastic. The weather was just brilliant the whole, the whole Sunday. So that was fantastic. The weather was just brilliant the whole, the whole

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summer. We'd do things like ski downhill and people would tow us back up summer. We'd do things like ski downhill and people would tow us back up

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on- with a rope on the back of the Hagglund or on a quad bike, yeah, on- with a rope on the back of the Hagglund or on a quad bike, yeah,

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so that was just brilliant... a few hours; it wasn't, you know, so that was just brilliant... a few hours; it wasn't, you know,

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a massive undertaking but just enough and a massive undertaking but just enough and

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the last... but on the last skiing... everything went pretty well, you know, there were no the last... but on the last skiing... everything went pretty well, you know, there were no

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injuries, no major injuries, might have been a couple of people doing the wall of death on injuries, no major injuries, might have been a couple of people doing the wall of death on

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a quad bike who might have come off, but anyway there were no major injuries until a quad bike who might have come off, but anyway there were no major injuries until

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the last skiing run of that summer when Mark ?Duldig? who was there with me at the time the last skiing run of that summer when Mark ?Duldig? who was there with me at the time

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from cosmic ray physics. Mark and I were the last to ski down from cosmic ray physics. Mark and I were the last to ski down

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the hill for that time. Mark was in front of me... he went base over apex and the hill for that time. Mark was in front of me... he went base over apex and

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actually end up breaking his collarbone and I managed to swerve around him just actually end up breaking his collarbone and I managed to swerve around him just

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by some sheer luck, and had to get poor old Mark back to- back to the station and put his arm in a by some sheer luck, and had to get poor old Mark back to- back to the station and put his arm in a

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sling. And, yeah, so that that mucked up his end of- end of summer. sling. And, yeah, so that that mucked up his end of- end of summer.

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The- the other interesting thing I guess in- in that time at Mawson The- the other interesting thing I guess in- in that time at Mawson

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was: Well we had some LARCs there and we did was: Well we had some LARCs there and we did

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a little bit of, a few LARC trips around the bay when the, when the sea ice a little bit of, a few LARC trips around the bay when the, when the sea ice

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went out. That was quite memorable. And a few whales being... I remember went out. That was quite memorable. And a few whales being... I remember

14:25

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a few whales being in the bay at the time, so that was quite- quite special. But, yeah a few whales being in the bay at the time, so that was quite- quite special. But, yeah

14:32

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fantastic to be at Mawson at that time, getting out into the hills, lots of activities in fantastic to be at Mawson at that time, getting out into the hills, lots of activities in

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the hills as well: Crevassing, we went ah... the hills as well: Crevassing, we went ah...

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I got some nice photograph of a helicopter actually seen from the bottom of I got some nice photograph of a helicopter actually seen from the bottom of

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a crevasse. a crevasse.

14:51

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Also some of the ?birds shrunk? out at the Central Massons, we Also some of the ?birds shrunk? out at the Central Massons, we

14:58

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went out there on some weekends, so a lot of, just went out there on some weekends, so a lot of, just

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a lot of activity at the time, a lot of field activity mixed in with all the work that we were a lot of activity at the time, a lot of field activity mixed in with all the work that we were

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doing. [IM] Do you think that level of activity happened because you were just summering doing. [IM] Do you think that level of activity happened because you were just summering

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and needed to pack as much in as you could or was it more a feature of the geographical and needed to pack as much in as you could or was it more a feature of the geographical

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setting or the group that you were with. [AK] Probably um setting or the group that you were with. [AK] Probably um

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a mixture of the group I'd say. At those times we had some more freedoms I guess in a mixture of the group I'd say. At those times we had some more freedoms I guess in

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where we could go and what we could do. We had some very good FTO people there with where we could go and what we could do. We had some very good FTO people there with

15:30

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us that, that really helped and they were very keen to get out and demonstrate things. But I us that, that really helped and they were very keen to get out and demonstrate things. But I

15:37

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think... yeah, we just had more opportunities to get out into certain places and I think... yeah, we just had more opportunities to get out into certain places and I

15:44

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guess even in those days there was work starting to happen on Bechervaise Islands guess even in those days there was work starting to happen on Bechervaise Islands

15:49

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so there was so there was

15:49

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a lot of activity around the station - science-wise and so on and... yeah, a lot of activity around the station - science-wise and so on and... yeah,

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I think just I think just

15:58

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a few more opportunities were made. [IM] So you'd wintered in '88 a few more opportunities were made. [IM] So you'd wintered in '88

16:01

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at Macquarie Island and this was your 1st summer. Did you feel that there was somehow at Macquarie Island and this was your 1st summer. Did you feel that there was somehow

16:06

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a difference between being a so-called winterer or a difference between being a so-called winterer or

16:09

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a summerer? Was there a division in any way? [AK] I don't think so in those days. I don't think a summerer? Was there a division in any way? [AK] I don't think so in those days. I don't think

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there really is now, it depends on your outlook, I think. I think having there really is now, it depends on your outlook, I think. I think having

16:20

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had some- [laughs] had a Wintering experience I think I felt had some- [laughs] had a Wintering experience I think I felt

16:24

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a bit more comfortable in my skin, you know like, I hope I didn't say too much but you know a bit more comfortable in my skin, you know like, I hope I didn't say too much but you know

16:31

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like 'Back at Macquarie Island we used to do it this way or that way' I think there like 'Back at Macquarie Island we used to do it this way or that way' I think there

16:34

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was was

16:34

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a little bit of that I seem to remember myself saying... um, just comparing notes but... a little bit of that I seem to remember myself saying... um, just comparing notes but...

16:40

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yeah I don't think, I think we sort of all fitted together pretty well, yeah I don't think, I think we sort of all fitted together pretty well,

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you know, it's hard to say. I know that it's you know, it's hard to say. I know that it's

16:50

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a bit... a little bit different, say on the continent to Macquarie Island in terms of how intrepid it is but I a bit... a little bit different, say on the continent to Macquarie Island in terms of how intrepid it is but I

16:55

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hope that didn't cause hope that didn't cause

16:57

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a division of things there. I mean that, but those times were quite exciting, they a division of things there. I mean that, but those times were quite exciting, they

17:01

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were doing things like traversing out into the PCMs, there was some activity were doing things like traversing out into the PCMs, there was some activity

17:05

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there so was a bit more, there so was a bit more,

17:07

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a bit more ruggedness. There was the Lambert Basin traverse going to happen. a bit more ruggedness. There was the Lambert Basin traverse going to happen.

17:14

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At Mawson they'd come through At Mawson they'd come through

17:15

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a fire in the mess the previous Winter... where - when we arrived, the mess had been a fire in the mess the previous Winter... where - when we arrived, the mess had been

17:21

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pretty much refurbished but that was quite pretty much refurbished but that was quite

17:24

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a big deal for that particular year, the 1990 crew I guess it was. a big deal for that particular year, the 1990 crew I guess it was.

17:30

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But, yeah, some- some interesting things there. [IM] So you then... when you came back to Australia But, yeah, some- some interesting things there. [IM] So you then... when you came back to Australia

17:36

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you actually were in Australia for really you actually were in Australia for really

17:38

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a 9-10 year period before you went back down South again? [AK] Yeah, I sort of had a 9-10 year period before you went back down South again? [AK] Yeah, I sort of had

17:42

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that little Macquarie Island trip after the- the Mawson one... [IM] In 1991-92. [AK] ...but, yeah I had a bit that little Macquarie Island trip after the- the Mawson one... [IM] In 1991-92. [AK] ...but, yeah I had a bit

17:47

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I had a big gap so what happened to me was that when I came back from, when I came I had a big gap so what happened to me was that when I came back from, when I came

17:54

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back from Mawson, um... well pretty much I'd met up with Helen Beggs again and she said: "Oh why back from Mawson, um... well pretty much I'd met up with Helen Beggs again and she said: "Oh why

17:60

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don't you come out for a movie, I'm organizing don't you come out for a movie, I'm organizing

18:02

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a few people to go and see a movie'. I went 'OK that's good I just got off the ship and a few people to go and see a movie'. I went 'OK that's good I just got off the ship and

18:06

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I'll invite I'll invite

18:06

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a few people... go and see a movie," and, um, went to see 'Dances With Wolves.' Now, why am I telling you this a few people... go and see a movie," and, um, went to see 'Dances With Wolves.' Now, why am I telling you this

18:12

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story? Well this is how I met my wife, Gaye Summers. So what happened was that we went to this movie, story? Well this is how I met my wife, Gaye Summers. So what happened was that we went to this movie,

18:17

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Helen invited along some people, I invited along some people, we all got back to, I Helen invited along some people, I invited along some people, we all got back to, I

18:23

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I think we went out for I think we went out for

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a coffee afterwards and then I met up with my wife and very quickly we kicked off a coffee afterwards and then I met up with my wife and very quickly we kicked off

18:29

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a relationship there and that changed my whole outlook on Antarctica. a relationship there and that changed my whole outlook on Antarctica.

18:36

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We, uh... actually we got married later that year and I'd been scheduled to go to We, uh... actually we got married later that year and I'd been scheduled to go to

18:43

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Macquarie Island for another Summer, and I left for Macquarie Island for another Summer, and I left for

18:46

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Macquarie 2 weeks after I was married. And that was actually quite Macquarie 2 weeks after I was married. And that was actually quite

18:49

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a- an interesting Summer in various ways. It was great to get back to Macquarie Island but a- an interesting Summer in various ways. It was great to get back to Macquarie Island but

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newly being married... yeah, it was quite different. And it was only newly being married... yeah, it was quite different. And it was only

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a short Summer. It was actually being stuck on that Icebird for a short Summer. It was actually being stuck on that Icebird for

19:04

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a period of 6 weeks that was another interesting thing there. You couldn't a period of 6 weeks that was another interesting thing there. You couldn't

19:07

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communicate too well back home... all that sort of stuff... but eventually got back home communicate too well back home... all that sort of stuff... but eventually got back home

19:11

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and then... yeah, I decided that I didn't need to be away [laughs] in the and then... yeah, I decided that I didn't need to be away [laughs] in the

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same way that I'd been before. Now I'd actually seen quite same way that I'd been before. Now I'd actually seen quite

19:21

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a lot of Antarctica in that time I guess. So interestingly, when I got back a lot of Antarctica in that time I guess. So interestingly, when I got back

19:28

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because of this project that we'd developed for Macquarie Island which was again because of this project that we'd developed for Macquarie Island which was again

19:31

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building on all the other work we'd done, um, there was building on all the other work we'd done, um, there was

19:35

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a component where we were going to set some gear up in the Arctic. And, um, at a component where we were going to set some gear up in the Arctic. And, um, at

19:40

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a place called Kotzebue in the- in Alaska... which is essentially the closest a place called Kotzebue in the- in Alaska... which is essentially the closest

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point to, uh, to Siberia. In fact in times gone by people had actually point to, uh, to Siberia. In fact in times gone by people had actually

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walked across from Siberia to Kotzebue. Anyway, so I was lucky enough to set some walked across from Siberia to Kotzebue. Anyway, so I was lucky enough to set some

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gear up there and I took Gaye up there and our daughter Maddie. So we spent some time up gear up there and I took Gaye up there and our daughter Maddie. So we spent some time up

20:03

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in the Canadian Arctic and it was good because I was actually able to sort of show her some in the Canadian Arctic and it was good because I was actually able to sort of show her some

20:07

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of the, some of the similarities and differences. And you know I talked of the, some of the similarities and differences. And you know I talked

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a life we spent a few months up that way and that was quite a life we spent a few months up that way and that was quite

20:14

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a memorable trip - but since then our direction... our research direction changed. We a memorable trip - but since then our direction... our research direction changed. We

20:20

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finished up all of our Auroral research in about 1993-94 with finished up all of our Auroral research in about 1993-94 with

20:26

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a new direction from the Antarctic Science Advisory Committee. Our group was a new direction from the Antarctic Science Advisory Committee. Our group was

20:32

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asked to look at climate change related activities, and in that we developed asked to look at climate change related activities, and in that we developed

20:38

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some new scientific outlooks and started to ask - or answer, some new questions about some new scientific outlooks and started to ask - or answer, some new questions about

20:45

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Antarctic science. Part of that was to look at the effects of ozone loss Antarctic science. Part of that was to look at the effects of ozone loss

20:53

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on climate and what's happening with the state of the atmosphere. What, what are on climate and what's happening with the state of the atmosphere. What, what are

20:58

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temperatures doing in the atmosphere. Really basic fundamental questions which temperatures doing in the atmosphere. Really basic fundamental questions which

21:01

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as it turns out hadn't been addressed and still, you know, having some... still some difficulties as it turns out hadn't been addressed and still, you know, having some... still some difficulties

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in addressing some of those questions still today. Through the Antarctic in addressing some of those questions still today. Through the Antarctic

21:13

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Program, Dr Fred Jacker at- in Adelaide at the Program, Dr Fred Jacker at- in Adelaide at the

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Mawson Institute for Antarctic Research: He was Mawson Institute for Antarctic Research: He was

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a former Chief Scientist actually of the Division... uh, was developing some instrumentation a former Chief Scientist actually of the Division... uh, was developing some instrumentation

21:26

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to look at the Antarctic atmosphere with laser, with a laser beam, to look at the Antarctic atmosphere with laser, with a laser beam,

21:31

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a LIDAR system, Light Detection and Ranging system. Ray Morris who was my manager at the time a LIDAR system, Light Detection and Ranging system. Ray Morris who was my manager at the time

21:38

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encouraged me to go across to Adelaide. I'd known Fred, or met encouraged me to go across to Adelaide. I'd known Fred, or met

21:41

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met Fred previously and knew about that work so it was kind of met Fred previously and knew about that work so it was kind of

21:43

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a natural thing. I had some knowledge in optics and various other things so I ended a natural thing. I had some knowledge in optics and various other things so I ended

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up becoming essentially the Project Leader for getting Fred's instrument down to up becoming essentially the Project Leader for getting Fred's instrument down to

21:54

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the Antarctic. Fred was quite ill at the time, he suffered from cancer and passed away not the Antarctic. Fred was quite ill at the time, he suffered from cancer and passed away not

21:59

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too long after we'd made that sort of contact in Adelaide, so it was my job to too long after we'd made that sort of contact in Adelaide, so it was my job to

22:08

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continue on this work but I felt the need and desire to make sure that Fred's continue on this work but I felt the need and desire to make sure that Fred's

22:15

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legacy was carried on. So back at the Division we looked at legacy was carried on. So back at the Division we looked at

22:22

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what we needed to do. We talked to Pat Quilty who was our what we needed to do. We talked to Pat Quilty who was our

22:27

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Chief Scientist at the time and Rex Moncur and they gave us the green light to go ahead Chief Scientist at the time and Rex Moncur and they gave us the green light to go ahead

22:31

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and put this instrument in the Antarctic, and very generously, you know, and put this instrument in the Antarctic, and very generously, you know,

22:38

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made provisions in our budget for that happen. It took made provisions in our budget for that happen. It took

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a number of years for us to actually get all this instrumentation together and we a number of years for us to actually get all this instrumentation together and we

22:45

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actually thought we might be at Davis after actually thought we might be at Davis after

22:49

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a couple of years, or 3 years, but it turned out to be a couple of years, or 3 years, but it turned out to be

22:51

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a bit longer. We actually established the foundations for a bit longer. We actually established the foundations for

22:55

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a LIDAR observatory there in a LIDAR observatory there in

22:58

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about 1988 or something like that, but it took us until the about 1988 or something like that, but it took us until the

23:04

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2000-2001 summer to get all the gear together. We decided to go to Davis 2000-2001 summer to get all the gear together. We decided to go to Davis

23:08

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rather than Mawson simply because of the weather was better at Davis. And so ever since rather than Mawson simply because of the weather was better at Davis. And so ever since

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then we've been measuring properties and characteristics of the atmosphere using then we've been measuring properties and characteristics of the atmosphere using

23:19

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a laser system at Davis. We've got a laser system at Davis. We've got

23:23

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a fantastic record now of information which we're now publishing a fantastic record now of information which we're now publishing

23:30

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and developed some fantastic collaborations with that. And and developed some fantastic collaborations with that. And

23:38

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that's taken me back to Davis on a few occasions. Various ships, have been on that's taken me back to Davis on a few occasions. Various ships, have been on

23:43

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on the Icebird a few times and the Aurora but on the Icebird a few times and the Aurora but

23:46

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had some- some fantastic Summers and getting to see Davis... had some- some fantastic Summers and getting to see Davis...

23:51

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There's 2, when I was coming back from Mawson, in my 1st trip to the ice, stopped There's 2, when I was coming back from Mawson, in my 1st trip to the ice, stopped

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off at Davis for a few days and had a bit of a look off at Davis for a few days and had a bit of a look

23:60

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look around but it really wasn't until the 2000-2001 Summer I actually got to have look around but it really wasn't until the 2000-2001 Summer I actually got to have

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a look around. Yeah I was able, been able to explore all sorts of theories there a look around. Yeah I was able, been able to explore all sorts of theories there

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because of being back so many times I've managed to pick off little bits and pieces. because of being back so many times I've managed to pick off little bits and pieces.

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I guess the highlights for me have been able to walk around the ?corner? lakes I guess the highlights for me have been able to walk around the ?corner? lakes

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area out near the Sorsdal... um, some long hikes out there with various people. area out near the Sorsdal... um, some long hikes out there with various people.

24:33

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And I guess also more recently I've been able to get out onto the Amery Ice Shelf too, a And I guess also more recently I've been able to get out onto the Amery Ice Shelf too, a

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trip down there just for the day to look at the AMISOR drilling out there and spent trip down there just for the day to look at the AMISOR drilling out there and spent

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a little bit of time at the Chinese Zhongshan and also a little bit of time at the Chinese Zhongshan and also

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their 4th station as well which has been quite good but, you know, I guess most of my work has been on station their 4th station as well which has been quite good but, you know, I guess most of my work has been on station

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but I've taken those opportunities to get out on the ice and have a look around. [IM] How many LIDARs are but I've taken those opportunities to get out on the ice and have a look around. [IM] How many LIDARs are

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there in the Antarctic area? [AK] Yeah, not many. It's varied from year to year a little bit there in the Antarctic area? [AK] Yeah, not many. It's varied from year to year a little bit

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but basically our instrument has been the only one capable of looking high up in but basically our instrument has been the only one capable of looking high up in

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the atmosphere for the atmosphere for

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a number of years, um... [IM] When you say high up, what sort of range are we talking about? [AK] Above about a number of years, um... [IM] When you say high up, what sort of range are we talking about? [AK] Above about

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40 kilometers. So what we're trying to do is to measure properties of the atmosphere 40 kilometers. So what we're trying to do is to measure properties of the atmosphere

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from the ground to about 100 kilometers high and technologically that's from the ground to about 100 kilometers high and technologically that's

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quite difficult but even more so in the Antarctic where you don't have some of the quite difficult but even more so in the Antarctic where you don't have some of the

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backups that you need for the technology, like lasers are quite difficult to operate. backups that you need for the technology, like lasers are quite difficult to operate.

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Weather conditions can make an observing program quite demanding, just Weather conditions can make an observing program quite demanding, just

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the remote nature of the whole thing really. But I guess in recent years the French the remote nature of the whole thing really. But I guess in recent years the French

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and Italians have had small LIDAR systems running in various ways. At the moment and Italians have had small LIDAR systems running in various ways. At the moment

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now the Japanese and the US, Japanese at Showa Station and US at McMurdo, have some now the Japanese and the US, Japanese at Showa Station and US at McMurdo, have some

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quite powerful LIDAR systems which are comparable to ours. [IM] So looking in the same quite powerful LIDAR systems which are comparable to ours. [IM] So looking in the same

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range of 40 kilometers plus. [AK] Yeah that's right. In fact their systems look also down range of 40 kilometers plus. [AK] Yeah that's right. In fact their systems look also down

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into the lower level of the atmosphere like we do. But yeah, capable of looking high up. into the lower level of the atmosphere like we do. But yeah, capable of looking high up.

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And at the moment we have a And at the moment we have a

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a strong collaboration with the German Institute for A-Atmospheric Physics and a strong collaboration with the German Institute for A-Atmospheric Physics and

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they have a LIDAR system alongside they have a LIDAR system alongside

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ours at Davis... they've had that there since the '10-'11 Summer, and we continue on ours at Davis... they've had that there since the '10-'11 Summer, and we continue on

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that work for another year or so. [IM] So that's a that work for another year or so. [IM] So that's a

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collaborative project or is it run by the Germans on the Australian base? [AK] Yeah it's collaborative project or is it run by the Germans on the Australian base? [AK] Yeah it's

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a collaborative project. They've been making measurements in the Northern Hemisphere at a collaborative project. They've been making measurements in the Northern Hemisphere at

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polar latitudes for polar latitudes for

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a little while and now they've come down to look at how things compared. They have a little while and now they've come down to look at how things compared. They have

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a special capability to measure ion - properties of the ion layer, you know, high up a special capability to measure ion - properties of the ion layer, you know, high up

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in the atmosphere which we can't measure but our instruments are complementary in the atmosphere which we can't measure but our instruments are complementary

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in various ways. So we're looking at things like the very tenuous in various ways. So we're looking at things like the very tenuous

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icy particles that are in the atmosphere high up. In the Summer-time at about icy particles that are in the atmosphere high up. In the Summer-time at about

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84 kilometers clouds called noctilucent clouds or polar meso- 84 kilometers clouds called noctilucent clouds or polar meso-

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spheric clouds form. We made basically one of spheric clouds form. We made basically one of

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the 1st sets of the 1st sets of

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measurements of those from Davis. A number of properties of those layers measurements of those from Davis. A number of properties of those layers

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are measured with radars too... we're the 1st to make those measurements, and the 1st are measured with radars too... we're the 1st to make those measurements, and the 1st

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release document some of the long term charges in the atmosphere over Davis as well release document some of the long term charges in the atmosphere over Davis as well

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where with various instruments, so we're changing our focus where with various instruments, so we're changing our focus

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a little bit now. We've moved through that work, and the thing that we are now a little bit now. We've moved through that work, and the thing that we are now

27:59

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looking at in some more detail is how we can improve climate models. And that looking at in some more detail is how we can improve climate models. And that

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is an important area for giving us some certainty into the future for climate is an important area for giving us some certainty into the future for climate

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projections. The thing that we're looking at is: How projections. The thing that we're looking at is: How

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understanding of the polar atmosphere helps in improving ice models because we know understanding of the polar atmosphere helps in improving ice models because we know

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that there are some aspects that are influenced by the polar processes - for example that there are some aspects that are influenced by the polar processes - for example

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the ozone hole has probably been the ozone hole has probably been

28:31

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the largest driver of climate change in the southern hemisphere. Larger in some ways the largest driver of climate change in the southern hemisphere. Larger in some ways

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than greenhouse gas changes, but what's still missing is than greenhouse gas changes, but what's still missing is

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detailed knowledge of how that process actually works, and what the implications are detailed knowledge of how that process actually works, and what the implications are

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when ozone starts to recover and the ozone hole problem is not as severe as it is when ozone starts to recover and the ozone hole problem is not as severe as it is

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now. Greenhouse gas climate change will take now. Greenhouse gas climate change will take

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a larger role... but how will things really interact? And a lot of the models don't take a larger role... but how will things really interact? And a lot of the models don't take

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into account some that recovery process so that's where we're utilizing our into account some that recovery process so that's where we're utilizing our

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little niche and our links in the Australian and the international little niche and our links in the Australian and the international

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community to- to answer some of those questions. Our instrumentation at Davis is part of community to- to answer some of those questions. Our instrumentation at Davis is part of

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that but we're now looking at a bigger, a bigger sort of question. Perhaps that but we're now looking at a bigger, a bigger sort of question. Perhaps

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exploring less of some of the areas that haven't really been exploring less of some of the areas that haven't really been

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looked at in looked at in

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detail but trying to answer some bigger questions essentially, but probably have detail but trying to answer some bigger questions essentially, but probably have

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a longer lasting impact. [IM] Are there any additional areas of atmospheric physics that a longer lasting impact. [IM] Are there any additional areas of atmospheric physics that

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you think will be important to develop over the next 10 to 20 years? [AK] I think in you think will be important to develop over the next 10 to 20 years? [AK] I think in

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terms of the really fine scale modeling of the atmosphere, um we know now back here that um terms of the really fine scale modeling of the atmosphere, um we know now back here that um

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we're getting better forecasts in general from our weather prediction and we're getting better forecasts in general from our weather prediction and

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that improvement is based on advances in computing, just being able to run that improvement is based on advances in computing, just being able to run

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finer and finer resolution modeling. We know now around Australia there finer and finer resolution modeling. We know now around Australia there

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regional forecasts that go down to individual towns and cities whereas previously regional forecasts that go down to individual towns and cities whereas previously

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it was perhaps large slabs of states that were covered by a single forecast, so it was perhaps large slabs of states that were covered by a single forecast, so

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improvements in computing mean we can run finer and finer scale modeling but to improvements in computing mean we can run finer and finer scale modeling but to

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constrain that we need constrain that we need

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a better understanding of some of the processes that are happening. So for example a better understanding of some of the processes that are happening. So for example

30:31

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in the Antarctic what we're looking to do is to validate and improve some of the in the Antarctic what we're looking to do is to validate and improve some of the

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fine scale forecasting around the Antarctic coast using our capabilities. That fine scale forecasting around the Antarctic coast using our capabilities. That

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will have flow-on effects for operations for example... just being at stations and will have flow-on effects for operations for example... just being at stations and

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operating field programs and so forth we hope... but a deeper understanding of some operating field programs and so forth we hope... but a deeper understanding of some

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of the effects near the coast of Antarctica. There's of the effects near the coast of Antarctica. There's

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a lot of contrast between topography, sea and the ice there that a lot of contrast between topography, sea and the ice there that

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are quite difficult to model without some knowledge about some of the processes so are quite difficult to model without some knowledge about some of the processes so

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that's where our measurements will come in. [IM] So you've been going down to the Antarctic now that's where our measurements will come in. [IM] So you've been going down to the Antarctic now

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really for almost a 25 year period and you mention there's been quite really for almost a 25 year period and you mention there's been quite

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a few changes in the work program in atmospheric physics. What are the major a few changes in the work program in atmospheric physics. What are the major

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changes have you noticed over that period? [AK] I think in terms of our program changes have you noticed over that period? [AK] I think in terms of our program

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we used to support we used to support

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a lot more of the sites from other agencies directly in our a lot more of the sites from other agencies directly in our

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program and I think a number of years back there was program and I think a number of years back there was

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a shift to automating equipment as a shift to automating equipment as

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a way of reducing the number of people that you needed down South. That's had a number a way of reducing the number of people that you needed down South. That's had a number

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of advantages I guess I alluded to that slightly in the early on when I was talking about of advantages I guess I alluded to that slightly in the early on when I was talking about

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some of the tedium, um, and repeatability I think... so automating some of the tedium, um, and repeatability I think... so automating

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is- is an advantage because people back here can actually get the data and is- is an advantage because people back here can actually get the data and

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interpret it in real time. um, and, uh, you know in the olden days it used to be that interpret it in real time. um, and, uh, you know in the olden days it used to be that

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you'd collect a whole years worth you'd collect a whole years worth

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of data and you'd bring it back and somebody'd look at it and say: "Well, I don't know if I really of data and you'd bring it back and somebody'd look at it and say: "Well, I don't know if I really

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believe that or not," but now people can actually look at it in real time and that's believe that or not," but now people can actually look at it in real time and that's

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been a great advantage for us so I think the ANARESAT development was been a great advantage for us so I think the ANARESAT development was

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a really big breakthrough for science. In our area for example we a really big breakthrough for science. In our area for example we

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continuously stream back radar data, LIDAR data, we analyse it back here. For example the sort of continuously stream back radar data, LIDAR data, we analyse it back here. For example the sort of

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things that I do we have some results going to international reports almost things that I do we have some results going to international reports almost

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instantaneously now. World meteorological organization ozone instantaneously now. World meteorological organization ozone

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assessments - that sort of thing... so I think that's been the big- the big advances- assessments - that sort of thing... so I think that's been the big- the big advances-

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that instant science. [IM] Have there been any major advances as more from a community that instant science. [IM] Have there been any major advances as more from a community

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aspect or aspect or

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recreational aspects on station? [AK] Yeah, it's interesting. I guess in terms of the technology we recreational aspects on station? [AK] Yeah, it's interesting. I guess in terms of the technology we

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use down there, we're still using those Squirrel helicopters and you know Hagglunds and use down there, we're still using those Squirrel helicopters and you know Hagglunds and

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quad bikes and things like that. I guess there's quad bikes and things like that. I guess there's

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a more diversity now of science that we have down on the stations I think, There's you a more diversity now of science that we have down on the stations I think, There's you

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know targeted programs... I think in the earlier days there probably weren't- there wasn't so know targeted programs... I think in the earlier days there probably weren't- there wasn't so

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so much of that sort of work. I think so much of that sort of work. I think

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a good demonstration recently is probably the new sure Marine work done at Davis. a good demonstration recently is probably the new sure Marine work done at Davis.

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That's a good example of That's a good example of

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a targeted approach that brings in environmental monitoring and scientific research. a targeted approach that brings in environmental monitoring and scientific research.

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I think that's, and of course the thing about that is to do that sort of work you I think that's, and of course the thing about that is to do that sort of work you

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need the infrastructure at the station to do it. I guess we've, you know, need the infrastructure at the station to do it. I guess we've, you know,

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languished a bit languished a bit

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in some of our infrastructure, keeping up with the requirements, for example in some of our infrastructure, keeping up with the requirements, for example

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water production at Davis has been an issue for water production at Davis has been an issue for

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a number of years which is now being, you know, addressed quite well and, um, I guess some a number of years which is now being, you know, addressed quite well and, um, I guess some

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of the accommodation issues at the stations of you know taking of the accommodation issues at the stations of you know taking

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a while to address. Aviation has been another activity I guess perhaps a while to address. Aviation has been another activity I guess perhaps

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hasn't had hasn't had

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a big impact at Davis, or it probably could have had more impact. I managed to be a big impact at Davis, or it probably could have had more impact. I managed to be

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on the 1st flight from Hobart to Davis essentially for proving of the C.A.S.A 212 on the 1st flight from Hobart to Davis essentially for proving of the C.A.S.A 212

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airlink. That was fantastic, that was airlink. That was fantastic, that was

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a trip to the Skiway at um, Wilkins Skiway at Casey on the Airbus A219 a trip to the Skiway at um, Wilkins Skiway at Casey on the Airbus A219

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and then across to Davis. I stayed awake for all of that because I really want to and then across to Davis. I stayed awake for all of that because I really want to

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see everything and it was quite tiring. I think we, it took us about 14 hours from Hobart see everything and it was quite tiring. I think we, it took us about 14 hours from Hobart

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to Davis. If the aircraft capability to Davis. If the aircraft capability

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matched what we and where expectations were I think would be much more routine matched what we and where expectations were I think would be much more routine

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and that would give us more flexibility in the program, but unfortunately there and that would give us more flexibility in the program, but unfortunately there

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are some limitations there which meant that we've had to hold back on some of the are some limitations there which meant that we've had to hold back on some of the

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activities. We'd like to get more people into, um... say Davis for the Summer and and Mawson for activities. We'd like to get more people into, um... say Davis for the Summer and and Mawson for

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some of the various things in the science program in general I'm saying, not just atmospheric some of the various things in the science program in general I'm saying, not just atmospheric

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science. The scientific activities at Casey have probably benefited from the science. The scientific activities at Casey have probably benefited from the

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air link because we know now the melt at the station really hampers what we can do. air link because we know now the melt at the station really hampers what we can do.

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I think into the future we will see perhaps I think into the future we will see perhaps

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a different delivery of the Antarctic Program via air and I think a different delivery of the Antarctic Program via air and I think

35:49

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having the Airlink program has really helped us see what we really need to do and what having the Airlink program has really helped us see what we really need to do and what

35:55

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the capabilities are, so I think in some respects it's been the capabilities are, so I think in some respects it's been

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a great learning exercise but I think we've achieved some really good things a great learning exercise but I think we've achieved some really good things

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from it but it's been at some cost to the program and you know of course I think from it but it's been at some cost to the program and you know of course I think

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the way that perhaps Casey operates as the way that perhaps Casey operates as

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a station is quite different to the way it used to operate and that's you know a station is quite different to the way it used to operate and that's you know

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has its toll I think on, on some of the expeditions there overall. I think it's has its toll I think on, on some of the expeditions there overall. I think it's

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been tougher to be been tougher to be

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at Casey than any other station. I haven't actually spent any, any time at Casey than any other station. I haven't actually spent any, any time

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at Casey aside from going through on at Casey aside from going through on

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resupply voyages but I hear that things are a bit different there to the other 2 resupply voyages but I hear that things are a bit different there to the other 2

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stations. [IM] Will you go back down South again? [AK] I probably won't actually. I think I've had stations. [IM] Will you go back down South again? [AK] I probably won't actually. I think I've had

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my time now for various reasons, you know. I'm, um, I guess my time now for various reasons, you know. I'm, um, I guess

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refocusing my research in refocusing my research in

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a slightly different way; it's still essential to the Antarctic but doesn't need- I a slightly different way; it's still essential to the Antarctic but doesn't need- I

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don't need to be down there. We're developing a, some new measurement don't need to be down there. We're developing a, some new measurement

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capability which could potentially take me down there if I wanted to, but I think I'm leaving capability which could potentially take me down there if I wanted to, but I think I'm leaving

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that for the next generation of people. We've got Simon Alexander in our program he that for the next generation of people. We've got Simon Alexander in our program he

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wintered at Davis wintered at Davis

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a couple of years back. He's the sort of person that's going to take over and lead younger people now a couple of years back. He's the sort of person that's going to take over and lead younger people now

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that are going to lead these things and it's time for us old fogies to, you know, let them that are going to lead these things and it's time for us old fogies to, you know, let them

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have their day so that's, that's were I think I'm going. I've have their day so that's, that's were I think I'm going. I've

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also been lucky enough to see Antarctic from the air from also been lucky enough to see Antarctic from the air from

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a couple of Croydon Travel flights as well as an Antarctic Observer. I had one a couple of Croydon Travel flights as well as an Antarctic Observer. I had one

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very special trip in 2003 during the total solar eclipse so I've seen a very special trip in 2003 during the total solar eclipse so I've seen a

37:42

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solar eclipse from the air, so I can't really top that so I think- I think I've seen solar eclipse from the air, so I can't really top that so I think- I think I've seen

37:47

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enough now. [IM] So Andrew, Antarctica's obviously had enough now. [IM] So Andrew, Antarctica's obviously had

37:50

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a huge in-influence upon your career. If you had to give me a huge in-influence upon your career. If you had to give me

37:56

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a short list of ways in which it's changed you more a short list of ways in which it's changed you more

37:58

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on a personal level what would you, what would you list? [AK] Well I think on a personal level what would you, what would you list? [AK] Well I think

38:06

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it made me grow up fairly quickly I think. That's one thing that did, and I guess it it made me grow up fairly quickly I think. That's one thing that did, and I guess it

38:11

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helped shape me in certain ways, um, making me more aware helped shape me in certain ways, um, making me more aware

38:18

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of diversity I think in, in people, or just the range of activities. The fact of diversity I think in, in people, or just the range of activities. The fact

38:24

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I've been able to mix with a whole diverse group of people I think has really helped me. I think in I've been able to mix with a whole diverse group of people I think has really helped me. I think in

38:31

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science you could tend to get a big cloistered in with science you could tend to get a big cloistered in with

38:34

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a certain type of people but, yeah I've just seen so many amazing stories a certain type of people but, yeah I've just seen so many amazing stories

38:39

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that people have, I think that's really helped me. So I think that would be the thing that people have, I think that's really helped me. So I think that would be the thing

38:43

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that's probably changed my life, whether I know it or not I don't know but, it's hard to that's probably changed my life, whether I know it or not I don't know but, it's hard to

38:48

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say if I was just in academia all the time, but I think it's really helped me say if I was just in academia all the time, but I think it's really helped me

38:54

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a lot I think. [IM] Is there anything else you'd like to add? [AK] Well I, you know, I'd just like to say a lot I think. [IM] Is there anything else you'd like to add? [AK] Well I, you know, I'd just like to say

39:01

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it's been it's been

39:02

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a fantastic place to work in the Antarctic and I've really been very lucky I a fantastic place to work in the Antarctic and I've really been very lucky I

39:08

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guess in following this career. I probably would have been in some sort of science. guess in following this career. I probably would have been in some sort of science.

39:14

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So I had some you know ideas to stay in radio-astronomy where I did my So I had some you know ideas to stay in radio-astronomy where I did my

39:18

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PhD PhD

39:18

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and and continue on there. As it turns out radio-astronomy or astronomy in general is and and continue on there. As it turns out radio-astronomy or astronomy in general is

39:23

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still a, an area that one can build quite still a, an area that one can build quite

39:30

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a good career in even though it's looking at things way a good career in even though it's looking at things way

39:35

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out there, there are lots of applications. So I think I would have you know I would out there, there are lots of applications. So I think I would have you know I would

39:39

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have been able to continue on there but I'm really glad that I became involved in have been able to continue on there but I'm really glad that I became involved in

39:44

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the Antarctic program. [IM] That's it then, thank you. the Antarctic program. [IM] That's it then, thank you.

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