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My name's Ingrid McGaughey and I'm at the Australian Antarctic Division with My name's Ingrid McGaughey and I'm at the Australian Antarctic Division with
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Andrew Klekocuik. Now Andrew is an atmospheric physicist and worked at Macquarie Andrew Klekocuik. Now Andrew is an atmospheric physicist and worked at Macquarie
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Island in 1988 and the summer of 91-92. He was at Mawson in 1991 summer and Island in 1988 and the summer of 91-92. He was at Mawson in 1991 summer and
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then he had quite an extensive contact with Davis summering in then he had quite an extensive contact with Davis summering in
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2000, 2001, 2001-02, 2004-05, 2007-08, 2000, 2001, 2001-02, 2004-05, 2007-08,
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[Ingrid] and 2009-10. Hello Andrew. [Andrew] Hello there, Ingrid. [Ingrid] Andrew I thought in the initial [Ingrid] and 2009-10. Hello Andrew. [Andrew] Hello there, Ingrid. [Ingrid] Andrew I thought in the initial
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discussions would focus mainly on your time at Macquarie Island in 88 and in the summer discussions would focus mainly on your time at Macquarie Island in 88 and in the summer
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of '91-'92. Before we get to that, can you tell me of '91-'92. Before we get to that, can you tell me
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a little bit just about your life before you started a little bit just about your life before you started
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[Ingrid] going down south. [Andrew] OK. I was born in Hobart in 1961. I've just turned 50, just last week [Ingrid] going down south. [Andrew] OK. I was born in Hobart in 1961. I've just turned 50, just last week
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[Andrew] as it turns out. [Ingrid] Happy birthday! [Andrew] Thank you. I grew up in the northern suburbs of Hobart. My father was [Andrew] as it turns out. [Ingrid] Happy birthday! [Andrew] Thank you. I grew up in the northern suburbs of Hobart. My father was
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an electrical fitter with a hydroelectric commission, and my mother was an electrical fitter with a hydroelectric commission, and my mother was
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a registered nurse. My dad got me interested in things environmental, I guess, but a registered nurse. My dad got me interested in things environmental, I guess, but
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also things mechanical. And through some mutual friends of his, I developed an also things mechanical. And through some mutual friends of his, I developed an
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interest in astronomy at an early age. And from my backyard in Hobart, I managed to interest in astronomy at an early age. And from my backyard in Hobart, I managed to
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look at sunspots and stars and various other things, and that got me interested in look at sunspots and stars and various other things, and that got me interested in
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Antarctica as it turned out. I could watch Auroral displays from my backyard in Antarctica as it turned out. I could watch Auroral displays from my backyard in
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Glenorchy, well before the days of really heavy Glenorchy, well before the days of really heavy
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light pollution. And through that I just kind of got interested in what science was light pollution. And through that I just kind of got interested in what science was
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being done around the Hobart area and Australia in general. And, I guess the being done around the Hobart area and Australia in general. And, I guess the
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probably the turning point for me was when the Antarctic Division moved down to probably the turning point for me was when the Antarctic Division moved down to
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Hobart. Like 70s-early 80s. And I actually came down to the opening Hobart. Like 70s-early 80s. And I actually came down to the opening
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of the Antarctic Division. I would have been around about 19, I guess at the time of the Antarctic Division. I would have been around about 19, I guess at the time
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so I was actually so I was actually
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a trick at the time. And it was a real eye opener because I actually got to see a trick at the time. And it was a real eye opener because I actually got to see
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sciencey things that I was interested in. I got to meet- I remember meeting Fred sciencey things that I was interested in. I got to meet- I remember meeting Fred
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Bond, Major Fred Bond, at the time. And, um, the other thing I do Bond, Major Fred Bond, at the time. And, um, the other thing I do
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remember about that opening was seeing Prince Charles there. And also tasting some remember about that opening was seeing Prince Charles there. And also tasting some
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sledging biscuits for the 1st time and I do remember the funny thing about the sledging biscuits for the 1st time and I do remember the funny thing about the
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sledging biscuits was that they were definitely soaked in kerosene. I was sort of. sledging biscuits was that they were definitely soaked in kerosene. I was sort of.
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Definitely had been out in the field somewhere or at least been in Definitely had been out in the field somewhere or at least been in
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a corner which got them a bit contaminated so I do remember sledging business. I a corner which got them a bit contaminated so I do remember sledging business. I
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thought Gee do all sledging biscuits taste like these ? I don't know whether they really set them up thought Gee do all sledging biscuits taste like these ? I don't know whether they really set them up
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anyway... So I met Fred Bond at one of the displays and through the anyway... So I met Fred Bond at one of the displays and through the
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Astronomical Society of Tasmania, we actually got Fred Bond along to give Astronomical Society of Tasmania, we actually got Fred Bond along to give
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a talk about a talk about
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auroras. And we also had other people from the auroras. And we also had other people from the
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university and the Antarctic Division give talks at various times about things related university and the Antarctic Division give talks at various times about things related
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to the upper atmosphere in space. So, I guess I had to the upper atmosphere in space. So, I guess I had
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a long term interest in that and I knew some of the people. I developed contacts a long term interest in that and I knew some of the people. I developed contacts
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with them over the years. I ended up going to the University of Tasmania and I did a major in with them over the years. I ended up going to the University of Tasmania and I did a major in
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physics there in the early '80s. I finished my Honours degree in '82 physics there in the early '80s. I finished my Honours degree in '82
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And started the PhD. And started the PhD.
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And in that. We- I got interested in And in that. We- I got interested in
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a project which involved the space shuttle. And it was actually the 5th space a project which involved the space shuttle. And it was actually the 5th space
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shuttle mission and it was called Space Lab 1, and to cut shuttle mission and it was called Space Lab 1, and to cut
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a long story short. Basically my PhD a long story short. Basically my PhD
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Supervisor, Professor Bill Ellis, was doing some work with that experiment, which is Supervisor, Professor Bill Ellis, was doing some work with that experiment, which is
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going to basically dump going to basically dump
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a lot of water in the upper atmosphere over Hobart. And through my interest or a lot of water in the upper atmosphere over Hobart. And through my interest or
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context of the Antarctic Division, I got Dr Gary Byrnes interested in making some context of the Antarctic Division, I got Dr Gary Byrnes interested in making some
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measurements. Now this experiment happened in 1985. measurements. Now this experiment happened in 1985.
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And, so Gary set up some photometers and various other instruments here and we And, so Gary set up some photometers and various other instruments here and we
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had La Trobe Uni Professor, Peter Dyson, came down he was interested in that. had La Trobe Uni Professor, Peter Dyson, came down he was interested in that.
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It really sort of got me working closely with the Antarctic Division. Things. It really sort of got me working closely with the Antarctic Division. Things.
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It was quite an interesting experiment actually. The space shuttle had a It was quite an interesting experiment actually. The space shuttle had a
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problem getting into orbit. It was the only abort to orbit in the space shuttle problem getting into orbit. It was the only abort to orbit in the space shuttle
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program. One of the main engines cut out due to program. One of the main engines cut out due to
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a sensor problem. Turned out they didn't have as much control over doing that- this a sensor problem. Turned out they didn't have as much control over doing that- this
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experiment as we'd originally planned. But they did make Hobart the main focus experiment as we'd originally planned. But they did make Hobart the main focus
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simply because we had simply because we had
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a big Radio Astronomy facility and we've managed to get all these other experiments a big Radio Astronomy facility and we've managed to get all these other experiments
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lined up through the Antarctic Division. So it actually worked out really well. lined up through the Antarctic Division. So it actually worked out really well.
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It was cloudy that night, we didn't get some of the data that we hoped for, but we did get It was cloudy that night, we didn't get some of the data that we hoped for, but we did get
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some other things that were published in papers. So that was quite an interesting time. So that was some other things that were published in papers. So that was quite an interesting time. So that was
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'85. I was doing, in my PhD '85. I was doing, in my PhD
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That wasn't the main part of my work It was actually on. pulsars and radio astronomy That wasn't the main part of my work It was actually on. pulsars and radio astronomy
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something completely different. But you know, I was aware of something completely different. But you know, I was aware of
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wintering positions in the Antarctic and by that time I think I really. wintering positions in the Antarctic and by that time I think I really.
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decided that I wanted to spend some time in the Antarctic and I've known. Another decided that I wanted to spend some time in the Antarctic and I've known. Another
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chap called Brian Jarvis, who had wintered at Mawson in the 70s. He was chap called Brian Jarvis, who had wintered at Mawson in the 70s. He was
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an astronomer that did some oral studies, so I actually was able to talk to an astronomer that did some oral studies, so I actually was able to talk to
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him about what it was like. Some of the other people University of Tasmania: John him about what it was like. Some of the other people University of Tasmania: John
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Greenhill John Humble. Peter Fenton. As well had been working in the Antarctic Greenhill John Humble. Peter Fenton. As well had been working in the Antarctic
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so they really kind of gave me all the background I needed. and so I decided that so they really kind of gave me all the background I needed. and so I decided that
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when I finished my PhD, when I finished my PhD,
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I'd definitely be applying for a wintering job and I'd definitely be applying for a wintering job and
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about 1987, I was actually getting quite close to having everything written up. So I about 1987, I was actually getting quite close to having everything written up. So I
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saw the ad in the paper and I put in my application thinking that, well you know, saw the ad in the paper and I put in my application thinking that, well you know,
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there are only 2 positions for that winter and one was going to be Mawson or Davis and one there are only 2 positions for that winter and one was going to be Mawson or Davis and one
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was going to be was going to be
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at Macquarie Island. And I knew that there'd probably be about 40 or 50 applicants and I at Macquarie Island. And I knew that there'd probably be about 40 or 50 applicants and I
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pretty, have pretty, have
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a pretty slim chance. I put it in anyway. And thinking well, maybe I'll have to try a pretty slim chance. I put it in anyway. And thinking well, maybe I'll have to try
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again. Well as it turned out, my application was successful. Which really again. Well as it turned out, my application was successful. Which really
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got the adrenaline flowing because I hadn't quite finished my PhD. got the adrenaline flowing because I hadn't quite finished my PhD.
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So I thought well, I've really got to try and get this nailed because I was So I thought well, I've really got to try and get this nailed because I was
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actually scheduled to start at the Division in early July. Well, Gary found some actually scheduled to start at the Division in early July. Well, Gary found some
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money and actually offered me a short-term contract just before the end of the money and actually offered me a short-term contract just before the end of the
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financial year to start work on this project. And I guess being young and perhaps financial year to start work on this project. And I guess being young and perhaps
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slightly naive and perhaps more energetic than I am now, I said, "Yes I'll come down and I'll slightly naive and perhaps more energetic than I am now, I said, "Yes I'll come down and I'll
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do that work and I'll also finish my PhD. do that work and I'll also finish my PhD.
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And I'll go to Macquarie Island." Anyway, to cut a long story short, I did- I did everything And I'll go to Macquarie Island." Anyway, to cut a long story short, I did- I did everything
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and I got my PhD and I got my PhD
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in the end and had my winter at Macquarie Island. But it took me until I came back from in the end and had my winter at Macquarie Island. But it took me until I came back from
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Macquarie to actually finish writing things up. Since then I- well, after that I Macquarie to actually finish writing things up. Since then I- well, after that I
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basically, I guess, you know, became basically, I guess, you know, became
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visible inside the division. Applied for another job, which was visible inside the division. Applied for another job, which was
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a 5 year position which I got. And then after that, I've essentially been employed by the a 5 year position which I got. And then after that, I've essentially been employed by the
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[Andrew] Division ever since. [Ingrid] Did you need to undergo any particular pre-departure training in [Andrew] Division ever since. [Ingrid] Did you need to undergo any particular pre-departure training in
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[Ingrid] that period before you went to Macquarie Island in '88? [Andrew] Yeah, we did things [Ingrid] that period before you went to Macquarie Island in '88? [Andrew] Yeah, we did things
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a bit differently back then, I guess. We did more- more training on some of the a bit differently back then, I guess. We did more- more training on some of the
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scientific things. I guess the role that I had was looking after a large number scientific things. I guess the role that I had was looking after a large number
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of experiments. I think we had 17 or 18 experiments that were running back then in Macquarie. of experiments. I think we had 17 or 18 experiments that were running back then in Macquarie.
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Universities , government agencies like at the time it was. Universities , government agencies like at the time it was.
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IPS, they're called IPS IPS, they're called IPS
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Radio and Space Services now on this reprediction service. There was Radio and Space Services now on this reprediction service. There was
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What are called Geosciences Australia now and What are called Geosciences Australia now and
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a few other groups. And they had some fairly specific bits of gear that needed a few other groups. And they had some fairly specific bits of gear that needed
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special training. So, I spent I think it would have been special training. So, I spent I think it would have been
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a few. Multi day trips to the mainland. CSIRO research a few. Multi day trips to the mainland. CSIRO research
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at Aspendale, we spent at Aspendale, we spent
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a few days there looking at filling air sample flasks and running equipment. And I a few days there looking at filling air sample flasks and running equipment. And I
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made some really. Nice and long lasting relationships with some of the people there made some really. Nice and long lasting relationships with some of the people there
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I still have today. People like Roger Francey, who was involved in ANARE in the I still have today. People like Roger Francey, who was involved in ANARE in the
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early years, Paul Fraser and ah, yeah, early years, Paul Fraser and ah, yeah,
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many of the other guys there. And, also we went up to Newcastle Uni to many of the other guys there. And, also we went up to Newcastle Uni to
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do some work on some of their gear that records magnetic disturbances. People Iike do some work on some of their gear that records magnetic disturbances. People Iike
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Brian Fraser up there and Fred Menk. Fred had Brian Fraser up there and Fred Menk. Fred had
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a winter at Davis, I think, back in the 80s. La Trobe Uni. Peter Dyson had been a winter at Davis, I think, back in the 80s. La Trobe Uni. Peter Dyson had been
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involved in a lot of Antarctic work, but other people like Elizabeth involved in a lot of Antarctic work, but other people like Elizabeth
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Essex. So, we really had quite a Essex. So, we really had quite a
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a good strong community of researchers that, you know, got us along, did the training a good strong community of researchers that, you know, got us along, did the training
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and we really. Were quite skilled I think at the end which made and we really. Were quite skilled I think at the end which made
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a big difference to the science that we did. Apart from that, I did the other stuff a big difference to the science that we did. Apart from that, I did the other stuff
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like again, I was naive and young and I got involved in theatre nursing, which is like again, I was naive and young and I got involved in theatre nursing, which is
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fantastic, you know. I think that was probably fantastic, you know. I think that was probably
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a unique experience. I'm not quite sure what it's like today, but we had the 2 weeks a unique experience. I'm not quite sure what it's like today, but we had the 2 weeks
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in the hospital and. Having some physics background I think was was handy there in the hospital and. Having some physics background I think was was handy there
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because of the sort of, I guess, fluids and drugs and chemicals that were being used because of the sort of, I guess, fluids and drugs and chemicals that were being used
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but. Some of the things there were just incredible looking into people's brains, you but. Some of the things there were just incredible looking into people's brains, you
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don't often get to look inside somebody's brain very often, and all of the other don't often get to look inside somebody's brain very often, and all of the other
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operations that were being done. Firefighting, we did a one week firefighting course. operations that were being done. Firefighting, we did a one week firefighting course.
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Went up to The maritime college facility in Launceston. And actually. The Went up to The maritime college facility in Launceston. And actually. The
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course was run out of Bell Bay and that was quite- that was quite an eye opener too. That was course was run out of Bell Bay and that was quite- that was quite an eye opener too. That was
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really great experience I do remember. One of the chaps that actually ran the really great experience I do remember. One of the chaps that actually ran the
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course. I'm not sure if all people that run these firefighting courses have this skill, but course. I'm not sure if all people that run these firefighting courses have this skill, but
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this guy had this particular skill of being able to remove a match from this guy had this particular skill of being able to remove a match from
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a match box, basically with one hand and light it and throw it into a match box, basically with one hand and light it and throw it into
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a pan of oil. Actually you know, get the desired reaction that was quite a pan of oil. Actually you know, get the desired reaction that was quite
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a skill as a skill as
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[Andrew] I remember. [Ingrid] Did you have much of an opportunity to meet with the people that you'd [Andrew] I remember. [Ingrid] Did you have much of an opportunity to meet with the people that you'd
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[Ingrid] be wintering with at Macquarie Island before you actually sailed? [Andrew] Yes we did. In those days [Ingrid] be wintering with at Macquarie Island before you actually sailed? [Andrew] Yes we did. In those days
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too, we kind of had more time it seems, to bond. I guess one of the greatest too, we kind of had more time it seems, to bond. I guess one of the greatest
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bonding experiences we had was. With Tim Dalmau and associates bonding experiences we had was. With Tim Dalmau and associates
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running their, I guess, assessment or group dynamic assessment, as we running their, I guess, assessment or group dynamic assessment, as we
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had in those days. And I remember we had a had in those days. And I remember we had a
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a couple of days at. What used to be the old adult education a couple of days at. What used to be the old adult education
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center on the Domain or Tasmanian University, as it originally was. And basically I center on the Domain or Tasmanian University, as it originally was. And basically I
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think it was the Macquarie group and the Casey think it was the Macquarie group and the Casey
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Group. We were sort of put together and separated and joined up at various times, but Group. We were sort of put together and separated and joined up at various times, but
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we did things like assess our position in the group, you know, through we did things like assess our position in the group, you know, through
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our own assessment but also peer assessment. Which was quite, I guess, something I'd our own assessment but also peer assessment. Which was quite, I guess, something I'd
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never done before and obviously never done before and obviously
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a lot of other people hadn't done, because I think by particularly perhaps the tradies a lot of other people hadn't done, because I think by particularly perhaps the tradies
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found that sort of found that sort of
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a bit outside the um, the norm and they thought it, actually I a bit outside the um, the norm and they thought it, actually I
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do remember that various people reacted to this in- in strange ways we- so we did that do remember that various people reacted to this in- in strange ways we- so we did that
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and we- we did sort of scenario things and we- we did so ?there? and we- we did sort of scenario things and we- we did so ?there?
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airy fairy things like assessing our JaHari window which was. Essentially revealing airy fairy things like assessing our JaHari window which was. Essentially revealing
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how much of ourselves We were able to share with the group and all these sort of how much of ourselves We were able to share with the group and all these sort of
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things through various assessments. And I know that things did change things through various assessments. And I know that things did change
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a lot over the years after that, but these were the early days of trying to a lot over the years after that, but these were the early days of trying to
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get sort of group dynamics happening in- in various ways. I think Delmar and associates get sort of group dynamics happening in- in various ways. I think Delmar and associates
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Were involved in the expedition or assessment process in the early days Were involved in the expedition or assessment process in the early days
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EDAS I think  EDAS I think 
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I think it was called Expedition & Development Assessment Scheme, which morphed into I think it was called Expedition & Development Assessment Scheme, which morphed into
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various things over the years. So that- I think that was quite exciting and interesting various things over the years. So that- I think that was quite exciting and interesting
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[Andrew] time. [Ingrid] So the EDAS was done before you went down south and then repeated while you [Andrew] time. [Ingrid] So the EDAS was done before you went down south and then repeated while you
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[Ingrid] were there? [Andrew] Yeah that's right. So after, you know, getting the sort of introduction you know [Ingrid] were there? [Andrew] Yeah that's right. So after, you know, getting the sort of introduction you know
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we were kind of assessed by we were kind of assessed by
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a Station Leader and Deputy Station Leader before we went south and a Station Leader and Deputy Station Leader before we went south and
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[Andrew] given a, you know, a pre-departure assessment as it were. [Ingrid] And was that fed back [Andrew] given a, you know, a pre-departure assessment as it were. [Ingrid] And was that fed back
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[Ingrid] to you? [Andrew] I think it was and I think, you know, I think it was all probably [Ingrid] to you? [Andrew] I think it was and I think, you know, I think it was all probably
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a good idea except I just think a few people found it a bit confronting. a good idea except I just think a few people found it a bit confronting.
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But I think it did bring us together as But I think it did bring us together as
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a group in a strange way. [laugh]. We were kind of reacting to this in various ways and I think a group in a strange way. [laugh]. We were kind of reacting to this in various ways and I think
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it really strengthened our relationships, so I think that was quite interesting. So yeah it really strengthened our relationships, so I think that was quite interesting. So yeah
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we had to have a lot of opportunities to actually get together and I think the other we had to have a lot of opportunities to actually get together and I think the other
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thing that we did was field training. We used the Lake Augusta thing that we did was field training. We used the Lake Augusta
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facility, as it was back in those days. Again, I think it was Macquarie Island and Casey facility, as it was back in those days. Again, I think it was Macquarie Island and Casey
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chucked together. I do remember like some practical things that also brought us chucked together. I do remember like some practical things that also brought us
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together as a group. The fireplace at that centre was just atrocious and it would smoke together as a group. The fireplace at that centre was just atrocious and it would smoke
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a lot and I do remember a lot and I do remember
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all the sort of tradies and other people getting together and analysing this fireplace all the sort of tradies and other people getting together and analysing this fireplace
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and trying to work out the best way of you know not smoking ourselves to and trying to work out the best way of you know not smoking ourselves to
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death. The other thing though I do remember from that time very clearly was death. The other thing though I do remember from that time very clearly was
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the scenario that we had. An after dinner emergency scenario, where basically we'd the scenario that we had. An after dinner emergency scenario, where basically we'd
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prepared dinner I think one night and. It was put to us there were going to be prepared dinner I think one night and. It was put to us there were going to be
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a few talks about Antarctic stuff and I think sort of just after the end of dinner, we heard a few talks about Antarctic stuff and I think sort of just after the end of dinner, we heard
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this loud explosion and. Screaming people came through the door with what looked this loud explosion and. Screaming people came through the door with what looked
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like blood gushing out of all sorts of things and. What looked like horrendous like blood gushing out of all sorts of things and. What looked like horrendous
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injuries and that was just amazing because I actually was quite convinced by the injuries and that was just amazing because I actually was quite convinced by the
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whole thing. Of course people who had been south before knew about this scenario. whole thing. Of course people who had been south before knew about this scenario.
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of course what happened there was that. A few volunteers who made up I think of course what happened there was that. A few volunteers who made up I think
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some professional makeup artists. And. It was just seeing how some professional makeup artists. And. It was just seeing how
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how we'd react in emergency situation and we had people on tables with blood how we'd react in emergency situation and we had people on tables with blood
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[Andrew] splurting- spurting out of severed limbs and all sorts of strange things. [Ingrid] How did you [Andrew] splurting- spurting out of severed limbs and all sorts of strange things. [Ingrid] How did you
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[Ingrid] react? [Andrew] Well I actually... I do remember sort of being fairly calm and [Ingrid] react? [Andrew] Well I actually... I do remember sort of being fairly calm and
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collected, but convinced by the whole thing. Mind you, after collected, but convinced by the whole thing. Mind you, after
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a few minutes, it was pretty obvious when, you know, tubes and various other things a few minutes, it was pretty obvious when, you know, tubes and various other things
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were exposed [laugh] that it was all of a bit of were exposed [laugh] that it was all of a bit of
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a scam. But yeah, I thought that was- that was great. It just sort of reminded me a scam. But yeah, I thought that was- that was great. It just sort of reminded me
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of the professionalism that, you know, this training scheme was trying to achieve. of the professionalism that, you know, this training scheme was trying to achieve.
17:13

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Yeah and to really prepare us for Yeah and to really prepare us for
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[Andrew] a whole bunch of things. [Ingrid] One of the catch cries today is diversity training, you know [Andrew] a whole bunch of things. [Ingrid] One of the catch cries today is diversity training, you know
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looking at issues of different religions or, I guess, sexual preferences or sexist down looking at issues of different religions or, I guess, sexual preferences or sexist down
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[Ingrid] south. Was that in place back in the 80s? [Andrew] Yeah it was. I certainly aware of that. And I [Ingrid] south. Was that in place back in the 80s? [Andrew] Yeah it was. I certainly aware of that. And I
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think it was probably perhaps the early days of really bringing that to the fore and think it was probably perhaps the early days of really bringing that to the fore and
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I think again, this is where Delmar and associates probably were trying to bring an ?area? I think again, this is where Delmar and associates probably were trying to bring an ?area?
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out of the Dark Ages. Whether they did it, you know, in an appropriate way, I don't know. But we out of the Dark Ages. Whether they did it, you know, in an appropriate way, I don't know. But we
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certainly. Did discuss certainly. Did discuss
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a lot of these issues. And I guess more so because the Macquarie Island in our year, we a lot of these issues. And I guess more so because the Macquarie Island in our year, we
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had one female scientist that was Karen Townrowe, that was an had one female scientist that was Karen Townrowe, that was an
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archaeologist. And I think there were 15 men with Karen, so archaeologist. And I think there were 15 men with Karen, so
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You know I think. Because of that . Really strong. You know I think. Because of that . Really strong.
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polarising arrangement there, I think that helped us look- look at that sort of polarising arrangement there, I think that helped us look- look at that sort of
18:27

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[Andrew] issue. [Ingrid] So did Delmau ran all the courses or was there input from personnel from the [Andrew] issue. [Ingrid] So did Delmau ran all the courses or was there input from personnel from the
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[Ingrid] Australian Antarctic Division? [Andrew] Yeah there was input from the Division. I'm just trying to [Ingrid] Australian Antarctic Division? [Andrew] Yeah there was input from the Division. I'm just trying to
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remember some of the people from those days. I think remember some of the people from those days. I think
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a lot of them have actually moved on in the Division. But people like I think Michael a lot of them have actually moved on in the Division. But people like I think Michael
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Johnson might have been one of the people who was originally involved in the early Johnson might have been one of the people who was originally involved in the early
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days there. He's probably one of the only pe- days there. He's probably one of the only pe-
18:53

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a few people that are still- still working here. But you know I think there was, you a few people that are still- still working here. But you know I think there was, you
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know, know,
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a moderate amount of input there. I think that was just being- had been based on. You a moderate amount of input there. I think that was just being- had been based on. You
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know, knowledge that had been developed inside the division. Sort of tailoring things. The other know, knowledge that had been developed inside the division. Sort of tailoring things. The other
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thing we used to do back in those days, I guess, with my... I'm just trying to think back to my thing we used to do back in those days, I guess, with my... I'm just trying to think back to my
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interview at the division. In those days, and of course up until recently, we just interview at the division. In those days, and of course up until recently, we just
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used to ask technical questions for part of the interview and then. Interpersonal used to ask technical questions for part of the interview and then. Interpersonal
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type questions or questions that explored how you'd react in the small environment, type questions or questions that explored how you'd react in the small environment,
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?are in our best? environment and I subsequently became involved in the selection ?are in our best? environment and I subsequently became involved in the selection
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process and was involved in assessing people in- in that way as well, which was quite process and was involved in assessing people in- in that way as well, which was quite
19:46

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interesting and it's done quite interesting and it's done quite
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[Andrew] a different way now through Selection Centres. [Ingrid] Andrew, what was the reaction of your [Andrew] a different way now through Selection Centres. [Ingrid] Andrew, what was the reaction of your
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[Ingrid] family and friends to you going down south? [Andrew] Yeah, it was quite interesting. Okay, so my [Ingrid] family and friends to you going down south? [Andrew] Yeah, it was quite interesting. Okay, so my
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Dad passed away when I was fairly young. I was 15, so I was at home with Dad passed away when I was fairly young. I was 15, so I was at home with
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mum my mum. My brother had moved out of our home. mum my mum. My brother had moved out of our home.
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Many years earlier he's 10 years older than me. I had also moved out of home at Many years earlier he's 10 years older than me. I had also moved out of home at
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various times during university, but came back before going to Macquarie Island. My various times during university, but came back before going to Macquarie Island. My
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mom was quite independent but. Without me around or my brother being in mom was quite independent but. Without me around or my brother being in
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Launceston, that was going to be harder for her. She was moderately healthy at that Launceston, that was going to be harder for her. She was moderately healthy at that
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time. In her early 60s. So, I think time. In her early 60s. So, I think
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overall, she was very supportive but I think it was a- it was overall, she was very supportive but I think it was a- it was
20:47

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a big change for my mom and I essentially. I guess that was one of the things a big change for my mom and I essentially. I guess that was one of the things
20:53

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you know, at that time I do remember, you know, I hadn't actually seen you know, at that time I do remember, you know, I hadn't actually seen
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a lot of life I guess at that stage. And so ANARE was quite a lot of life I guess at that stage. And so ANARE was quite
21:02

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a difference for me and I think it, you know, really changed my life, opened up everything for me . a difference for me and I think it, you know, really changed my life, opened up everything for me .
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So, without that I, you know, would have, you know, learnt more- more slowly I So, without that I, you know, would have, you know, learnt more- more slowly I
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[Andrew] think, some of the interesting points of life. [Ingrid] Can you tell me [Andrew] think, some of the interesting points of life. [Ingrid] Can you tell me
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a little bit about the leaving from Hobart? Sort of what the procedure was back in the a little bit about the leaving from Hobart? Sort of what the procedure was back in the
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[Ingrid] 80s? [Andrew] Yeah, back then that was pretty exciting. I'd seen a few [Ingrid] 80s? [Andrew] Yeah, back then that was pretty exciting. I'd seen a few
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a few ships go over the years. And just remembering back we went on ?and there were? a few ships go over the years. And just remembering back we went on ?and there were?
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Dan. And. I remember that day of course back Dan. And. I remember that day of course back
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course back in those times too we also got to an issued coloured uniform as it course back in those times too we also got to an issued coloured uniform as it
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were, you know. An Ari jumper. an Ari tie, an Ari white shirt, were, you know. An Ari jumper. an Ari tie, an Ari white shirt,
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and slacks I think most of us actually wore that gear. On the day of departure. and slacks I think most of us actually wore that gear. On the day of departure.
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But I don't think it was terribly different in some ways from what happens now. We had But I don't think it was terribly different in some ways from what happens now. We had
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a pretty much full day of briefings and getting on the ship and going through the a pretty much full day of briefings and getting on the ship and going through the
22:09

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safety stuff. But basically, I guess the difference now is that you know family and safety stuff. But basically, I guess the difference now is that you know family and
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friends were right there on the wharf. And I do remember one kind of friends were right there on the wharf. And I do remember one kind of
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interesting thing. That happened around that time was that you know getting getting interesting thing. That happened around that time was that you know getting getting
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extra cargo on the ship was no extra cargo on the ship was no
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problem right at the last minute and you could get anything on board pretty much. problem right at the last minute and you could get anything on board pretty much.
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Actually I do remember one kind of slightly strange thing is that in trying to. Actually I do remember one kind of slightly strange thing is that in trying to.
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finish off my PhD, I took actually finish off my PhD, I took actually
22:43

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a few extra bits and pieces down there um, I thought might be handy because basically a few extra bits and pieces down there um, I thought might be handy because basically
22:49

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being on Macquarie Island at that time meant you were pretty much cut off from mainstream being on Macquarie Island at that time meant you were pretty much cut off from mainstream
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libraries and other resources. So I actually sort of took all my references with me libraries and other resources. So I actually sort of took all my references with me
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and I had this enormous box of. Basically research papers which would have been and I had this enormous box of. Basically research papers which would have been
23:07

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probably the size of probably the size of
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a small filing cabinet, and I remember we actually got this on the ship but a small filing cabinet, and I remember we actually got this on the ship but
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we had to get it through, like there used to be we had to get it through, like there used to be
23:16

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a little marine science ?door? a little marine science ?door?
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a bit like the Aurora has now. And I remember getting a bit like the Aurora has now. And I remember getting
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a couple of mates to help me get this box on board and we just basically carried it a couple of mates to help me get this box on board and we just basically carried it
23:25

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across across
23:25

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a little gang plank onto the ship and managed to get into the ?lot? area on the a little gang plank onto the ship and managed to get into the ?lot? area on the
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ship. But you couldn't do that now for various reasons not least of which was that ship. But you couldn't do that now for various reasons not least of which was that
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the box probably weighed about 50 kilos anyway and you probably wouldn't be able to lift the box probably weighed about 50 kilos anyway and you probably wouldn't be able to lift
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it in conventional ways but yeah so that was kind of one of those strange things it in conventional ways but yeah so that was kind of one of those strange things
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but you can get anything on the ship and. I do remember. The sendoff being pretty but you can get anything on the ship and. I do remember. The sendoff being pretty
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loud and raucous. We had Larkeys on the ship and they were always loud and raucous. We had Larkeys on the ship and they were always
23:57

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good value and you know, quite uh very professional people, but you know good value and you know, quite uh very professional people, but you know
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party hard and work hard as well and I do remember one of the things that. Happened party hard and work hard as well and I do remember one of the things that. Happened
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when we left. I think somebody on the wharf shouted out, "See you Jimmy!" and that when we left. I think somebody on the wharf shouted out, "See you Jimmy!" and that
24:17

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became a catch cry for leaving Hobart or actually I think for became a catch cry for leaving Hobart or actually I think for
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our year it was. Any time anybody went anywhere they'd say "See you Jimmy!" you know. I our year it was. Any time anybody went anywhere they'd say "See you Jimmy!" you know. I
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would shout it out and. So the lackeys come and got us going. But I do would shout it out and. So the lackeys come and got us going. But I do
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remember another thing too. When we were out on the Southern Ocean I think the next remember another thing too. When we were out on the Southern Ocean I think the next
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morning, waking up and looking outside and saying to myself, "What am I morning, waking up and looking outside and saying to myself, "What am I
24:46

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doing here?" And in fact I think I've said that every time I leave on the ship because I doing here?" And in fact I think I've said that every time I leave on the ship because I
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think maybe it's just that connection back to that time but when you're out on think maybe it's just that connection back to that time but when you're out on
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a different world and you think God where am I and what am I doing here [laugh] kind of things. a different world and you think God where am I and what am I doing here [laugh] kind of things.
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[Andrew] Yeah that was my personal experience. [Ingrid] So how did you travel in the [Andrew] Yeah that was my personal experience. [Ingrid] So how did you travel in the
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[Ingrid] Nella Dan? [Andrew] Yeah well I'd never really been out on the, on the ocean before, like we used to do [Ingrid] Nella Dan? [Andrew] Yeah well I'd never really been out on the, on the ocean before, like we used to do
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a lot of fishing with my Dad around the coast or on the lakes and in the small boats a lot of fishing with my Dad around the coast or on the lakes and in the small boats
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and I'd never been on a bigger boat, not that the and I'd never been on a bigger boat, not that the
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Nella Dan was that big, but it did move around Nella Dan was that big, but it did move around
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a bit. I do remember waking up a bit. I do remember waking up
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and feeling pretty good and of course the food on the Nella was fantastic as it is and feeling pretty good and of course the food on the Nella was fantastic as it is
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on the Aurora today. But I remember getting up from my little cabin, I think I was sharing on the Aurora today. But I remember getting up from my little cabin, I think I was sharing
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with about 3 other people I think. Going down to the mess and having with about 3 other people I think. Going down to the mess and having
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a breakfast and then coming upstairs and feeling a bit strange and having a breakfast and then coming upstairs and feeling a bit strange and having
25:51

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a lie down. And. Yeah I did have a lie down. And. Yeah I did have
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a good vomit not long after that. And I do remember. a good vomit not long after that. And I do remember.
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The voyage leader. Yeah really helping me out that time and The voyage leader. Yeah really helping me out that time and
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[Ingrid] Not the doctor? [Andrew] Not the Doctor, the Voyage Leader actually, um I'm pretty sure it was the [Ingrid] Not the doctor? [Andrew] Not the Doctor, the Voyage Leader actually, um I'm pretty sure it was the
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Voyage Leader and not the Deputy Voyage Leader. But, yeah helping me out and I think Voyage Leader and not the Deputy Voyage Leader. But, yeah helping me out and I think
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basically got the doc to come and have basically got the doc to come and have
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a look at me and um, I had my tablets and I've never been sick since then on any ANARE a look at me and um, I had my tablets and I've never been sick since then on any ANARE
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voyage, I'm happy to say. Mainly because I think I'm voyage, I'm happy to say. Mainly because I think I'm
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a bit more precaution I have my. Tablets you know if it's looking like it's going a bit more precaution I have my. Tablets you know if it's looking like it's going
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[Ingrid] The phenergan. [Andrew] The phenergan yep, ahead of time and always been able to control any [Ingrid] The phenergan. [Andrew] The phenergan yep, ahead of time and always been able to control any
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urge and I've had no problem since. So it was just that one bad incident on the Nella urge and I've had no problem since. So it was just that one bad incident on the Nella
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Dan. I do remember blocking up the sink in the um, [laughing] in the cabin. But since then there Dan. I do remember blocking up the sink in the um, [laughing] in the cabin. But since then there
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everything was fine. I think later that day, I got up and you know. It was quite normal but yeah that was everything was fine. I think later that day, I got up and you know. It was quite normal but yeah that was
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unusual. [Ingrid] So did the ship go down direct to Macquarie Island? [Andrew] Yeah, it went direct to Macquarie. We did unusual. [Ingrid] So did the ship go down direct to Macquarie Island? [Andrew] Yeah, it went direct to Macquarie. We did
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a little bit of marine science on the way. That was also interesting. We had to a little bit of marine science on the way. That was also interesting. We had to
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CTD cast out the back it was a diff- I guess it was a little bit of CTD cast out the back it was a diff- I guess it was a little bit of
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a different set up in those days. It was a different set up in those days. It was
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a device that they lowered over the back of a device that they lowered over the back of
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the ship that measured temperature and pressure and conductivity in the water column the ship that measured temperature and pressure and conductivity in the water column
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and this was part of. Our program. and this was part of. Our program.
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I can't remember it was like, something like CIPECS, but it was not quite called that. I can't remember it was like, something like CIPECS, but it was not quite called that.
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ISBECS or something like that. It was one of those acronyms that I don't think that anybody ISBECS or something like that. It was one of those acronyms that I don't think that anybody
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really knew what what it meant, but it was really knew what what it meant, but it was
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a whole bunch of things on the Southern Ocean. And I do remember spend..., we spent a whole bunch of things on the Southern Ocean. And I do remember spend..., we spent
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a few extra hours doing these cast. And I think what actually happened was that we a few extra hours doing these cast. And I think what actually happened was that we
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had had
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a problem with the winch, which kind of kicked up one of the cables, and I basically a problem with the winch, which kind of kicked up one of the cables, and I basically
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couldn't do any more casts after this. The cable actually had couldn't do any more casts after this. The cable actually had
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a conductor down the centre, and I think that broke or got damaged somehow. And that a conductor down the centre, and I think that broke or got damaged somehow. And that
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[Andrew] was the end of that. Then we went straight to Macquarie Island. [Ingrid] What were your first impressions [Andrew] was the end of that. Then we went straight to Macquarie Island. [Ingrid] What were your first impressions
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[Ingrid] of Macquarie Island? [Andrew] Pretty amazing. Appeared out of the mist. I do remember the penguins and [Ingrid] of Macquarie Island? [Andrew] Pretty amazing. Appeared out of the mist. I do remember the penguins and
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seals just popping out and then smelling them, smelling the island, because we were seals just popping out and then smelling them, smelling the island, because we were
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actually kind of on the eastern side and the wind was blowing from the Western. actually kind of on the eastern side and the wind was blowing from the Western.
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Yes, Yes,
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You could smell the whole island out there and all those things. I'd seen quite You could smell the whole island out there and all those things. I'd seen quite
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a lot of documentaries on Macquarie Island by that time. David ?Pira? type a lot of documentaries on Macquarie Island by that time. David ?Pira? type
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documentaries had been on the ABC. documentaries had been on the ABC.
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In fact, I think a few years prior to my going, there was quite a good series of In fact, I think a few years prior to my going, there was quite a good series of
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documentaries on Macquarie Island. Umm so it looked exactly like I'd imagined it anyway, so it documentaries on Macquarie Island. Umm so it looked exactly like I'd imagined it anyway, so it
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was just great to be there and um . The thing that we had to do in those days was lower the LARCS over the was just great to be there and um . The thing that we had to do in those days was lower the LARCS over the
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side and you know get things going. I sort of was familiar with all of that. We had side and you know get things going. I sort of was familiar with all of that. We had
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LARC training and things like that. But I guess I wasn't quite prepared for how LARC training and things like that. But I guess I wasn't quite prepared for how
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much um swell there was on the day that we arrived and. So much um swell there was on the day that we arrived and. So
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what actually happened was we arrived I guess late in the evening what actually happened was we arrived I guess late in the evening
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And. Basically the order was to start the next morning getting gear ashore and And. Basically the order was to start the next morning getting gear ashore and
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people would be transferred depending on the weather. But in those days people would be transferred depending on the weather. But in those days
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in the atmospheric work, we only had a very short changeover with in the atmospheric work, we only had a very short changeover with
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a physicist from the previous year. So that was Helen Beggs, who was there in 87. a physicist from the previous year. So that was Helen Beggs, who was there in 87.
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So I was up the list of people to go ashore fairly early on. Which was quite So I was up the list of people to go ashore fairly early on. Which was quite
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good. So I do remember, it might have been about the 3rd or 4th LARC trip or something like that, good. So I do remember, it might have been about the 3rd or 4th LARC trip or something like that,
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being on that. But also on that trip was Karen Townrow. being on that. But also on that trip was Karen Townrow.
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And I do remember. Watching And I do remember. Watching
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a few people go down the rope ladder to the lark and then Karen went down. I a few people go down the rope ladder to the lark and then Karen went down. I
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remember looking over the side and the larkies were telling people basically remember looking over the side and the larkies were telling people basically
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went to jump off the ladder and then on to the deck of the lark and Karen didn't went to jump off the ladder and then on to the deck of the lark and Karen didn't
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let go. And what that meant was that she was dangling on the ladder as the let go. And what that meant was that she was dangling on the ladder as the
30:37

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Nella Dan was going up and down but, more critically, that the LARC was going up and Nella Dan was going up and down but, more critically, that the LARC was going up and
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down right next to her and basically those larkies pulled her off before she would have been down right next to her and basically those larkies pulled her off before she would have been
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crushed by the side of the crushed by the side of the
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LARC. So after, everybody said, "Yeah OK, we've gotta get down that ladder LARC. So after, everybody said, "Yeah OK, we've gotta get down that ladder
30:51

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and get off it quickly." So I think I might have been the 2nd person after Karen and get off it quickly." So I think I might have been the 2nd person after Karen
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down there and yeah I remember getting off quite quickly and she was quite, I down there and yeah I remember getting off quite quickly and she was quite, I
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think she was think she was
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a bit um, a bit flustered by the whole thing. But you know we got off, got off safely and we a bit um, a bit flustered by the whole thing. But you know we got off, got off safely and we
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did our thing. We went about our jobs and one of, the 1st thing I had to do did our thing. We went about our jobs and one of, the 1st thing I had to do
31:09

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was to meet up with Helen and kind of really get that download of information. We've was to meet up with Helen and kind of really get that download of information. We've
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done done
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a bit of that through radphones back here. At that time, what we'd do each week is a bit of that through radphones back here. At that time, what we'd do each week is
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we'd have a hook up between head office and the science people down south. we'd have a hook up between head office and the science people down south.
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And I'd go along and talk to Helen about what she was doing. It's quite familiar with And I'd go along and talk to Helen about what she was doing. It's quite familiar with
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all that stuff anyway. But the important thing was really just all that stuff anyway. But the important thing was really just
31:35

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to find out where things were when we got there and go through all of the procedures to find out where things were when we got there and go through all of the procedures
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that we had to do. We had a lot, as I say, a lot of experiments to look after. There was that we had to do. We had a lot, as I say, a lot of experiments to look after. There was
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a lot of documentation on the measurements, some very fairly specific things that we a lot of documentation on the measurements, some very fairly specific things that we
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hadn't quite covered in some of the training. So I guess that was handy for me. hadn't quite covered in some of the training. So I guess that was handy for me.
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so I was ashore Quite early on and the other thing that we had at that time was. so I was ashore Quite early on and the other thing that we had at that time was.
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quite a long resupply, because we had quite a long resupply, because we had
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a lot of concrete for the Nari ??? set. dome that was going to go in . The idea a lot of concrete for the Nari ??? set. dome that was going to go in . The idea
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was that. Over the summer and into the winter we'd actually put up the Ari Set was that. Over the summer and into the winter we'd actually put up the Ari Set
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at Macquarie Island, which was the last of the Anari sets to go in. So it was going to take at Macquarie Island, which was the last of the Anari sets to go in. So it was going to take
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a fair while to get all that concrete off, basically precast concrete sections and a fair while to get all that concrete off, basically precast concrete sections and
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concrete box- box concrete, pre-mixed stuff. But concrete box- box concrete, pre-mixed stuff. But
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before that, they were going to get all the scientific gear and before that, they were going to get all the scientific gear and
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a lot of the resupply stuff off. So. a lot of the resupply stuff off. So.
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that must have been the 1st full day. And then basically later in the day, I think the that must have been the 1st full day. And then basically later in the day, I think the
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wind started to get up and. I do remember in those days wind started to get up and. I do remember in those days
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we used to be called UAP, Upper Atmosphere Physics, and we sort of had this we used to be called UAP, Upper Atmosphere Physics, and we sort of had this
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kind of UAP kind of UAP
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Commando, I guess, mentality or style. At least we were trained in a way by Commando, I guess, mentality or style. At least we were trained in a way by
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by our colleagues back here to keep by our colleagues back here to keep
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a lookout on everything, cause anything could go wrong, as it does, and you know a lookout on everything, cause anything could go wrong, as it does, and you know
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?in Ari? and we had to really keep ?in Ari? and we had to really keep
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a good close eye on our cargo to make sure it was coming ashore and where it was going a good close eye on our cargo to make sure it was coming ashore and where it was going
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and it was treated okay. and it was treated okay.
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So, I do remember liaising a fair bit with Gerry Nash. Gerry I think it was the Deputy So, I do remember liaising a fair bit with Gerry Nash. Gerry I think it was the Deputy
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Voyage Leader on that trip and she was the cargo master and Voyage Leader on that trip and she was the cargo master and
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Just making sure my gear was coming off which was basically. A large optical Just making sure my gear was coming off which was basically. A large optical
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instrument to measure. Pulsating auroras and it was in a big crate and there was instrument to measure. Pulsating auroras and it was in a big crate and there was
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a lot of other gear to come ashore. In fact I think we had quite a lot of other gear to come ashore. In fact I think we had quite
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a lot of- quite- you know, for- for its time quite a lot of- quite- you know, for- for its time quite
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a big installations do of equipment. Now through various things I think I a big installations do of equipment. Now through various things I think I
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might have managed to encourage Jerry to get my box large box off before the eggs? might have managed to encourage Jerry to get my box large box off before the eggs?
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or something like that. And got to shore and I think it was pretty much the last large or something like that. And got to shore and I think it was pretty much the last large
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trip. Before the weather turned. And basically cargo operations got trip. Before the weather turned. And basically cargo operations got
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called off after that. I was happy I had my photometer and all the other bits and pieces. called off after that. I was happy I had my photometer and all the other bits and pieces.
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But of course after that. that's when things really changed dramatically and the Nella Dan But of course after that. that's when things really changed dramatically and the Nella Dan
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ran aground later in the day. Now I think this might have been about perhaps ran aground later in the day. Now I think this might have been about perhaps
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the 2nd or 3rd day of the resupply but. Basically . The weather did change it came in the 2nd or 3rd day of the resupply but. Basically . The weather did change it came in
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from the East quite strongly which is unusual. And I do remember being. from the East quite strongly which is unusual. And I do remember being.
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Down in the science building at Macca with Howard Burton Howard and I were Down in the science building at Macca with Howard Burton Howard and I were
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looking at computers and things and Helen was there as well. And it was about It must have been looking at computers and things and Helen was there as well. And it was about It must have been
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just before 6 and we were going up to the mess to get ready for dinner or just before 6 and we were going up to the mess to get ready for dinner or
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something like that. And as soon as something like that. And as soon as
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science building the side of the ship just really close to shore and actually science building the side of the ship just really close to shore and actually
35:19

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what they were trying to do that time was to pull up the anchor and major out and we what they were trying to do that time was to pull up the anchor and major out and we
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just basically saw the whole thing unfold, where the ship just ran aground and. just basically saw the whole thing unfold, where the ship just ran aground and.
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At the time, Comms people were- were being alerted. We were near I think At the time, Comms people were- were being alerted. We were near I think
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the comms hut and the met hut there and we just stood there and Waited for the comms hut and the met hut there and we just stood there and Waited for
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instruction basically. Which came quite quickly and one of the things I had to do instruction basically. Which came quite quickly and one of the things I had to do
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was to go and get Stuff from the field store was to go and get Stuff from the field store
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It became pretty clear that people were going to be evacuated with larks. It became pretty clear that people were going to be evacuated with larks.
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And We watched people coming down the rope ladder on the side of the ship. Basically at the And We watched people coming down the rope ladder on the side of the ship. Basically at the
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time there was fuel being pumped ashore and the fuel line severed and we saw the spray of the diesel time there was fuel being pumped ashore and the fuel line severed and we saw the spray of the diesel
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go up in the air and of course that ended up affecting some people, made their job go up in the air and of course that ended up affecting some people, made their job
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really quite dangerous, quite slippery. So Station Leader, that really quite dangerous, quite slippery. So Station Leader, that
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was um, Ian Jacobsen, who was the outgoing Station Leader, and Glen Kowalik, was um, Ian Jacobsen, who was the outgoing Station Leader, and Glen Kowalik,
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were there and they were organising things really well. And basically assigning jobs were there and they were organising things really well. And basically assigning jobs
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to various people. My job was to go and get blankets and other bits and pieces to various people. My job was to go and get blankets and other bits and pieces
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from the field store with from the field store with
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a couple of people, so I raced up there and did that. I remember John O'Reeve, who a couple of people, so I raced up there and did that. I remember John O'Reeve, who
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was my engineer colleague for the winter. He was a mad keen surfer. He still is. And he had was my engineer colleague for the winter. He was a mad keen surfer. He still is. And he had
36:55

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a wetsuit and Johnno said, "Yeah I've got a wet suit." So I think he was told to go and put a wetsuit and Johnno said, "Yeah I've got a wet suit." So I think he was told to go and put
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it on and get ready to help people out of the surf and that sort of thing. So that was it on and get ready to help people out of the surf and that sort of thing. So that was
37:05

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Johnno's job . Johnno's job .
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But yeah basically, we were waiting around and helping But yeah basically, we were waiting around and helping
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people for several hours that day. It was actually quite people for several hours that day. It was actually quite
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a cold afternoon, as I recall. But amazingly, nobody was hurt a cold afternoon, as I recall. But amazingly, nobody was hurt
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in that whole operation and a credit to the larkeys that. You know they really did in that whole operation and a credit to the larkeys that. You know they really did
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a fantastic job getting people off that ship. So yeah, it was, I think we were all quite a fantastic job getting people off that ship. So yeah, it was, I think we were all quite
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shell shocked really about the whole thing and. Getting basically the whole shell shocked really about the whole thing and. Getting basically the whole
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ship's complement off. All the crew were quite distraught about the whole thing because ship's complement off. All the crew were quite distraught about the whole thing because
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a lot of them had actually lived with the ship. And I remember that night a lot of them had actually lived with the ship. And I remember that night
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just, we had to find places for people to sleep and I guess one of the other jobs I just, we had to find places for people to sleep and I guess one of the other jobs I
37:55

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I had was we were decking out like the science building with ah, beds um, sleeping bags the I had was we were decking out like the science building with ah, beds um, sleeping bags the
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whole thing. I think I remember finishing up, we must've finished up about 1 or 2 whole thing. I think I remember finishing up, we must've finished up about 1 or 2
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am getting people settled in. We even had people in the fire hut. You know all sorts of strange places. am getting people settled in. We even had people in the fire hut. You know all sorts of strange places.
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[Andrew] So yeah, that was quite an interesting day. [Ingrid] So how far was the ship off shore? [Andrew] Literally only [Andrew] So yeah, that was quite an interesting day. [Ingrid] So how far was the ship off shore? [Andrew] Literally only
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about 30 or 40 meters in the end. One of the other jobs I had at the about 30 or 40 meters in the end. One of the other jobs I had at the
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time was I was Station photographer for '88 and so I was going around time was I was Station photographer for '88 and so I was going around
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photographing things when I could. I remember Ted MeadowCroft he was our photographing things when I could. I remember Ted MeadowCroft he was our
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our sparky for that year, he actually took some really great photos and he had quite our sparky for that year, he actually took some really great photos and he had quite
38:41

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a good camera set up and he managed to get some better photos, whereas I was kind of a good camera set up and he managed to get some better photos, whereas I was kind of
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I guess I felt at the time, I had more responsibility in other ways. But yeah Ted I guess I felt at the time, I had more responsibility in other ways. But yeah Ted
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managed to get some great photos there. Ted was very busy also helping out but yeah he managed to get managed to get some great photos there. Ted was very busy also helping out but yeah he managed to get
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a couple a couple
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of definitive ones with waves breaking over the- over the ship. So of definitive ones with waves breaking over the- over the ship. So
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[Andrew] yeah, so that was one of my other responsibilities. [Ingrid] Was there much gear from the [Andrew] yeah, so that was one of my other responsibilities. [Ingrid] Was there much gear from the
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[Ingrid] resupply left on the ship? [Andrew] We got most of it off. I think mainly it was [Ingrid] resupply left on the ship? [Andrew] We got most of it off. I think mainly it was
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a lot of the concrete and other Anari set things. There were other things like I a lot of the concrete and other Anari set things. There were other things like I
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think, potatoes and some of the fresh fruit and veg still hadn't come off. I guess think, potatoes and some of the fresh fruit and veg still hadn't come off. I guess
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a lot of the scientific gear had come off. But yeah I do remember there being a bit of a lot of the scientific gear had come off. But yeah I do remember there being a bit of
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a question mark about. Some of the more staple items So yeah a question mark about. Some of the more staple items So yeah
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basically after that well. Well. Obviously Helen and I had more basically after that well. Well. Obviously Helen and I had more
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time to actually [laugh] do the changeover because there were- there was no way of getting back to Hobart. time to actually [laugh] do the changeover because there were- there was no way of getting back to Hobart.
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But as it turned out the Ice Bird was coming back from down But as it turned out the Ice Bird was coming back from down
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south, and it got diverted to Macquarie Island south, and it got diverted to Macquarie Island
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a few days later. Quite handy, it had Rex Moncur on board, as I recall, back then. a few days later. Quite handy, it had Rex Moncur on board, as I recall, back then.
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Which was Which was
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a handy thing and I think Rex might have been deputy director at that time, because a handy thing and I think Rex might have been deputy director at that time, because
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Jim Bleasel was still the Director, but still handy for Rex Jim Bleasel was still the Director, but still handy for Rex
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to be there and see all of that. Amazing time because when the- when the Icebird came in to be there and see all of that. Amazing time because when the- when the Icebird came in
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in. There was a period there where. There were in. There was a period there where. There were
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a lot of people on the station, there were over 110 people I think all together. Various a lot of people on the station, there were over 110 people I think all together. Various
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ways. There were some interesting tensions. There were some tensions between the ways. There were some interesting tensions. There were some tensions between the
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Ice Bird crew and the Nella Dan crew. One thing I vividly remember, I Ice Bird crew and the Nella Dan crew. One thing I vividly remember, I
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remember that when the Ice Bird came in, it had helicopters and all sorts of other remember that when the Ice Bird came in, it had helicopters and all sorts of other
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bits and pieces. And they had some extra food that they'd managed to take from, well the Ice bits and pieces. And they had some extra food that they'd managed to take from, well the Ice
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Bird's stores and bring ashore. The idea was basically to take everybody back to Bird's stores and bring ashore. The idea was basically to take everybody back to
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Hobart that didn't need to be Hobart that didn't need to be
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on Macquarie Island. There were some people that came in with me. One guy from on Macquarie Island. There were some people that came in with me. One guy from
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University of Otago was going to be there for the summer but he ended up going University of Otago was going to be there for the summer but he ended up going
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back on the Ice Bird, so I had to kind of back on the Ice Bird, so I had to kind of
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to kind of cover for the work that he was going to do. Michael to kind of cover for the work that he was going to do. Michael
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?Gormelis? from La Trobe Uni also. But one of the things I do remember is that ?Gormelis? from La Trobe Uni also. But one of the things I do remember is that
41:24

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. There was kind of like a. Party or . There was kind of like a. Party or
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a wake that the Nella crew had for the ship. a wake that the Nella crew had for the ship.
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Now that, the ship was still on the, on the rocks at that stage and they decided to Now that, the ship was still on the, on the rocks at that stage and they decided to
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have a bit of a wake, and they ended up having have a bit of a wake, and they ended up having
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a big bonfire on the beach to give the Viking sendoff. And. There was a bit of a big bonfire on the beach to give the Viking sendoff. And. There was a bit of
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a bit of -bit of alcohol around. [laugh] As normal. But I think the thing that a bit of -bit of alcohol around. [laugh] As normal. But I think the thing that
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I'd remember seeing and I only briefly saw it. Which is one of things that sticks in I'd remember seeing and I only briefly saw it. Which is one of things that sticks in
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my mind is this Macquarie Island evening mist with the waves breaking on the my mind is this Macquarie Island evening mist with the waves breaking on the
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shore and elephant seals rummaging around, and I think a few elephant seals also, shore and elephant seals rummaging around, and I think a few elephant seals also,
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a few bull seals on the beach um fighting with each other ?Selmer's? bonfire and the Nella Dan a few bull seals on the beach um fighting with each other ?Selmer's? bonfire and the Nella Dan
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out in the distance and out in the distance and
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a few of the Nella Dan crew and the Ice Bird crew having fisticuffs on the beach. It was a few of the Nella Dan crew and the Ice Bird crew having fisticuffs on the beach. It was
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all quite surreal actually it was just a bit like you know. Something out of all quite surreal actually it was just a bit like you know. Something out of
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a strange movie. But seeing these elephant seals fighting and grown men fighting on a strange movie. But seeing these elephant seals fighting and grown men fighting on
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the beach was the beach was
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a bit strange as well and it was basically because of this rivalry I think between a bit strange as well and it was basically because of this rivalry I think between
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[Andrew] the crews. I think it all settled down in the end. [Ingrid] That had [Andrew] the crews. I think it all settled down in the end. [Ingrid] That had
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[Ingrid] been a long standing rivalry. [Andrew] I think so to some extent. But you know, it was all exacerbated by the [Ingrid] been a long standing rivalry. [Andrew] I think so to some extent. But you know, it was all exacerbated by the
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emotions at the time and yeah, anyway it got sorted out. There were a few black eyes emotions at the time and yeah, anyway it got sorted out. There were a few black eyes
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involved but ah, yeah, no it all worked out but eventually everybody left and the Nella crew went involved but ah, yeah, no it all worked out but eventually everybody left and the Nella crew went
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[Andrew] went back on- on the Icebird as well. [Ingrid] Was there any attempt to refloat the Nella [Andrew] went back on- on the Icebird as well. [Ingrid] Was there any attempt to refloat the Nella
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[Ingrid] Dan? [Andrew] Yeah. [Ingrid] or salvage it? [Andrew] Yeah, yeah. So what happened there was that we had the Lady Lorraine [Ingrid] Dan? [Andrew] Yeah. [Ingrid] or salvage it? [Andrew] Yeah, yeah. So what happened there was that we had the Lady Lorraine
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which was a Bass Strait oil rig tender but there was this which was a Bass Strait oil rig tender but there was this
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the salvage operation mounted, which involved sending a ?laid in a rain? down. the salvage operation mounted, which involved sending a ?laid in a rain? down.
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What they were going to try and do basically was just tow it off the- off the rocks. What they were going to try and do basically was just tow it off the- off the rocks.
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They would have to wait for They would have to wait for
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a certain tide. Now, the Nella Dan ran aground in late November and the tides weren't a certain tide. Now, the Nella Dan ran aground in late November and the tides weren't
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weren't going to be favourable for a little while and some we kind of had weren't going to be favourable for a little while and some we kind of had
43:39

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a couple of weeks, I think between the time when the ?laid in the rain? arrived. a couple of weeks, I think between the time when the ?laid in the rain? arrived.
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These guys basically put some ropes on the ship and These guys basically put some ropes on the ship and
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managed to refloat it actually on one of the tides. They had- put on board some managed to refloat it actually on one of the tides. They had- put on board some
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pumps and pump some of the water out. Basically what had happened was that I think there was pumps and pump some of the water out. Basically what had happened was that I think there was
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a breach in the hull In the what's called the turbine shaft area so they couldn't a breach in the hull In the what's called the turbine shaft area so they couldn't
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run the main engine but they were able to put pumps and things on board like they got run the main engine but they were able to put pumps and things on board like they got
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got the thing off, that was quite got the thing off, that was quite
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a momentous time actually. Um. Actually one of things during that time that a momentous time actually. Um. Actually one of things during that time that
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the Ice Bird was in and helicopters around, I was involved in actually photographing the Ice Bird was in and helicopters around, I was involved in actually photographing
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the ship from the air and different vantage points, so that the Lady Lorraine the ship from the air and different vantage points, so that the Lady Lorraine
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crew could get some idea of how it was lodged. Anyway they got the ship off and crew could get some idea of how it was lodged. Anyway they got the ship off and
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um ah . I remember one of the things now When the ship um ah . I remember one of the things now When the ship
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arrived, they did have arrived, they did have
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a couple of days setting up and I remember some of the crew coming ashore and you know a couple of days setting up and I remember some of the crew coming ashore and you know
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sort of getting some extra gear but one of the things they did do was borrow quite sort of getting some extra gear but one of the things they did do was borrow quite
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a few of our movies because they'd um, they reckoned that we had a few of our movies because they'd um, they reckoned that we had
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a better set of. Of movies than they did and actually it was probably some of the a better set of. Of movies than they did and actually it was probably some of the
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more questionable movies that they actually ended up borrowing. Something about more questionable movies that they actually ended up borrowing. Something about
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Dallas and Dallas and
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a lady called Debbie I remember. But anyway I remember they borrowed these movies a lady called Debbie I remember. But anyway I remember they borrowed these movies
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and and I know some of the guys on the, on the station were and and I know some of the guys on the, on the station were
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a bit worried about that because I don't think we ever a bit worried about that because I don't think we ever
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saw those movies again which is probably saw those movies again which is probably
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a good thing. But anyway. They got the ship off and the Larkeys were still left on a good thing. But anyway. They got the ship off and the Larkeys were still left on
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Macquarie Island. They'd stayed on because what they were going to do was to do some Macquarie Island. They'd stayed on because what they were going to do was to do some
45:32

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of the hut resupply over the summer that hadn't been done. And also help salvage of the hut resupply over the summer that hadn't been done. And also help salvage
45:38

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stuff off the, off the ship so they were there for stuff off the, off the ship so they were there for
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a really good reason. So the Larkeys and the Lady Lorraine crew got together and a really good reason. So the Larkeys and the Lady Lorraine crew got together and
45:48

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. Once the ship was refloated the idea was to go out and actually salvage gear off it . Once the ship was refloated the idea was to go out and actually salvage gear off it
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and I remember Johnno went out there and and I remember Johnno went out there and
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a couple of the other. 88 guys and. Basically the idea was to strip everything out that was a couple of the other. 88 guys and. Basically the idea was to strip everything out that was
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useful. That included computers and comms gear and any food that could be found and useful. That included computers and comms gear and any food that could be found and
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various other things and various other things and
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a lot of it was put up on deck in cage pallets and I remember one day they worked out that a lot of it was put up on deck in cage pallets and I remember one day they worked out that
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there most of the afternoon doing that but there were concerns about safety because there most of the afternoon doing that but there were concerns about safety because
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of the the weather and also the fact that the ship was taking water and they were of the the weather and also the fact that the ship was taking water and they were
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pumping it out. Anyhow I remember after they'd done that the next morning their pumping it out. Anyhow I remember after they'd done that the next morning their
46:32

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plan was to go out early and, and to get those cage pallets off before the Lady Lorraine plan was to go out early and, and to get those cage pallets off before the Lady Lorraine
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was going to tow the ship back to Hobart but I remember the LARCs going out there and was going to tow the ship back to Hobart but I remember the LARCs going out there and
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we were watching it and I've got some photographs. Of the larks going out and then you can we were watching it and I've got some photographs. Of the larks going out and then you can
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see this puff of smoke coming out of the ship. And then this great cloud of smoke see this puff of smoke coming out of the ship. And then this great cloud of smoke
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and what had happened was that one of the pumps or and what had happened was that one of the pumps or
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a couple of them had actually caught fire for various reasons. I think one had been a couple of them had actually caught fire for various reasons. I think one had been
47:02

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might have been running dry or something like that and before the LARCs got out there might have been running dry or something like that and before the LARCs got out there
47:07

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there the ship was on fire. And we didn't get any of the gear off essentially as there the ship was on fire. And we didn't get any of the gear off essentially as
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I recall, got I recall, got
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a few bits and pieces but not nothing nothing major. And so that put everything a few bits and pieces but not nothing nothing major. And so that put everything
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into a turmoil again and um basically I think after that the the aim was to  into a turmoil again and um basically I think after that the the aim was to 
47:27

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to try and put the fire out but it took quite to try and put the fire out but it took quite
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a long time as I remember that they had to make some sort of decision on the spot as a long time as I remember that they had to make some sort of decision on the spot as
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to what was going to happen and it become clear that the amount of water they had to pump to what was going to happen and it become clear that the amount of water they had to pump
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on that ship to put the fire out well they weren't going to be able to re-establish the on that ship to put the fire out well they weren't going to be able to re-establish the
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pumps and get going again so there came a point where they decided to scuttle the pumps and get going again so there came a point where they decided to scuttle the
47:47

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ship. Now I can't remember exactly how many days it took to put the fire out but it was quite ship. Now I can't remember exactly how many days it took to put the fire out but it was quite
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a long time. It was probably the best part of a long time. It was probably the best part of
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a day and there's some quite dramatic Film from the Lady Lorraine a day and there's some quite dramatic Film from the Lady Lorraine
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as they're trying to fight this fire, pumping...  [IM] So they were fighting from the... [AK] ..from the Lady Lorraine yeah as they're trying to fight this fire, pumping...  [IM] So they were fighting from the... [AK] ..from the Lady Lorraine yeah
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they had water cannon essentially, um, and yeah this they had water cannon essentially, um, and yeah this
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the Nella was definitely taking the Nella was definitely taking
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a whole lot of water and because the pumps weren't running and I think the thing at a whole lot of water and because the pumps weren't running and I think the thing at
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the end was that from remembering that video was that she went down quite quickly the end was that from remembering that video was that she went down quite quickly
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in the end. It took a long time for it to get to that point but I think they were a bit in the end. It took a long time for it to get to that point but I think they were a bit
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a bit concerned they still had .... a bit concerned they still had ....
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a rope or two attached. And they had to sever that quite quickly and she went down a rope or two attached. And they had to sever that quite quickly and she went down
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um [IM] So they were dragging her out to scuttle her at that stage? [AK] Yeah dragging her out just off the, off the edge of um [IM] So they were dragging her out to scuttle her at that stage? [AK] Yeah dragging her out just off the, off the edge of
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the island into the really deep abyssal plain area. [IM] In line with which part the island into the really deep abyssal plain area. [IM] In line with which part
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of the island? [AK] Well pretty much off, directly east of North Head as I recall but of the island? [AK] Well pretty much off, directly east of North Head as I recall but
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a few kilometers out I remember Morbidly doing this calculation a few kilometers out I remember Morbidly doing this calculation
48:58

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we were trying to work out how long it would take the Nella Dan to hit the bottom [laughs] once it had we were trying to work out how long it would take the Nella Dan to hit the bottom [laughs] once it had
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filled with water and it was quite filled with water and it was quite
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a while, it was ah, best part of an hour I think because it was in about 5 kilometers of a while, it was ah, best part of an hour I think because it was in about 5 kilometers of
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water or something like that as I... don't know the exact details but I remember we went up to the water or something like that as I... don't know the exact details but I remember we went up to the
49:16

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comms shack and I've got some photos of that up on North Head there comms shack and I've got some photos of that up on North Head there
49:23

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and as they were towing the ship out and trying to put the fire out and and as they were towing the ship out and trying to put the fire out and
49:30

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Quite Quite
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a few of us watched the ship go down essentially from, from up there in the a few of us watched the ship go down essentially from, from up there in the
49:35

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afternoon. [IM] One of the things that was salvaged from the Nella Dan were the afternoon. [IM] One of the things that was salvaged from the Nella Dan were the
49:39

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the beautiful paintings out of the dining room which belongs to the ANARE the beautiful paintings out of the dining room which belongs to the ANARE
49:42

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Club. [AK] That's right. yeah. [IM] Can you recall anything about that salvage? [AK] Yeah I do Club. [AK] That's right. yeah. [IM] Can you recall anything about that salvage? [AK] Yeah I do
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remember. A little bit about that that was some just some of the the the more remember. A little bit about that that was some just some of the the the more
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minor items I guess that were retrieved but of course with great historical minor items I guess that were retrieved but of course with great historical
49:57

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value. um as I say value. um as I say
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a small part of the stuff actually that was on the ship got retrieved. Now I do a small part of the stuff actually that was on the ship got retrieved. Now I do
50:06

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remember there being. One of the. People from the Lutsen? line remember there being. One of the. People from the Lutsen? line
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actually on the ship that might have been. The wife of the owner That's right and actually on the ship that might have been. The wife of the owner That's right and
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she was there and she was on a sort of . A voyage I think she'd been south before maybe but I she was there and she was on a sort of . A voyage I think she'd been south before maybe but I
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do remember being there being on this voyage. Yes somehow. do remember being there being on this voyage. Yes somehow.
50:32

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yeah, she she helped in identifying the important bits to try and get off the ship yeah, she she helped in identifying the important bits to try and get off the ship
50:37

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essentially. And of course I think the mural from the Nella actually ended up in essentially. And of course I think the mural from the Nella actually ended up in
50:42

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in the bar at Macquarie Island. One of, because in the, in the mess there used to be kind of in the bar at Macquarie Island. One of, because in the, in the mess there used to be kind of
50:48

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a mural along one wall. I remember some of the panels from that wall were salvaged. a mural along one wall. I remember some of the panels from that wall were salvaged.
50:52

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So yeah there was, there wasn't much time to do much salvaging but I do So yeah there was, there wasn't much time to do much salvaging but I do
50:58

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remember some key bits being identified as people were sort of running around on remember some key bits being identified as people were sort of running around on
51:03

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the ship at the time. [IM] Well that was a fairly tumultuous start to your year so we might take the ship at the time. [IM] Well that was a fairly tumultuous start to your year so we might take
51:09

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a short break and then we'll talk about your work program. a short break and then we'll talk about your work program.