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Sandy Wood represents the new generation of fishermen of Queensland. He entered the industry as a Sandy Wood represents the new generation of fishermen of Queensland. He entered the industry as a
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as a deck- as a deck-
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deck hand in the early days of the Gulf of Carpentaria prawn fishery and gained deck hand in the early days of the Gulf of Carpentaria prawn fishery and gained
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further experience in Shark Bay and Carnavon before becoming skipper of further experience in Shark Bay and Carnavon before becoming skipper of
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large company vessels, price of acquiring his own bait. He now operates 2 large company vessels, price of acquiring his own bait. He now operates 2
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vessels, one prawn trawling on the east coast of Queensland and the other fish vessels, one prawn trawling on the east coast of Queensland and the other fish
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trawling for whiting for the export market. The latter on trawling for whiting for the export market. The latter on
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a recently introduced yearly permit scheme. In this interview, in addition to a recently introduced yearly permit scheme. In this interview, in addition to
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outline his own career in fishing, he discusses the pressure on the prawn fishery in outline his own career in fishing, he discusses the pressure on the prawn fishery in
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the Gulf of Carpentaria and the consequent pressure and prawning on the East Coast. the Gulf of Carpentaria and the consequent pressure and prawning on the East Coast.
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He also discusses the need for regulating the industry and the question of He also discusses the need for regulating the industry and the question of
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competition from other sources of prawns. The interview was recorded by Jack Darcy in Mr Wood's competition from other sources of prawns. The interview was recorded by Jack Darcy in Mr Wood's
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Wood's home in Mooloolaba on the 24th of April, 1990 and is part of Murdoch Wood's home in Mooloolaba on the 24th of April, 1990 and is part of Murdoch
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University's oral history of the Australian fishing industry. There are 2 sides on 1 University's oral history of the Australian fishing industry. There are 2 sides on 1
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tape and the interview starts at 0:22 on the revolution counter. tape and the interview starts at 0:22 on the revolution counter.
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[Jack] Name please. [Sandy] Alexander Kenneth Wood. [Jack] And where were you- [Jack] Name please. [Sandy] Alexander Kenneth Wood. [Jack] And where were you-
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I'm from Malone, from the age of 5. Born in New South Wales. I'm from Malone, from the age of 5. Born in New South Wales.
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No, not-uh, actually my grandfather had a  No, not-uh, actually my grandfather had a 
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hat manufacturing business in Sydney, and uh, my father didn't pursue that. He uh, decided he wanted a life on the land. hat manufacturing business in Sydney, and uh, my father didn't pursue that. He uh, decided he wanted a life on the land.
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lands. They went to uh, agricultural college. And then uh, after the war, bought his own lands. They went to uh, agricultural college. And then uh, after the war, bought his own
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home. He expanded that into 3 properties. home. He expanded that into 3 properties.
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[Jack] How did you come to get into fishing? [Sandy] Oh yeah, I left boarding school and didn't want [Jack] How did you come to get into fishing? [Sandy] Oh yeah, I left boarding school and didn't want
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[Want a] scholarship to go to university [Want a] scholarship to go to university
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[A little bit] different after uh, 6 years of boarding school. Fairly limited [A little bit] different after uh, 6 years of boarding school. Fairly limited
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my childhood on the farm and I thought I'd like to get around and see a bit of Australia so- I uh, from somewhere, I don't recall where my childhood on the farm and I thought I'd like to get around and see a bit of Australia so- I uh, from somewhere, I don't recall where
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so I heard that fishing was pretty exciting out at Cairns so I headed off to Cairns and that was uh, late so I heard that fishing was pretty exciting out at Cairns so I headed off to Cairns and that was uh, late
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1969 and early 1970's, started working on prawn trawlers, the Gulf of Carpentaria 1969 and early 1970's, started working on prawn trawlers, the Gulf of Carpentaria
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as a deckhand.  Yeah. Could you outline your career in the fishing? You've gone on a long way as a deckhand.  Yeah. Could you outline your career in the fishing? You've gone on a long way
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since those days. [Sandy] Well uh, well, some people wouldn't think that was a very early start since those days. [Sandy] Well uh, well, some people wouldn't think that was a very early start
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in the Gulf but uh, I recall things were pretty primitive when I got up there. There was in the Gulf but uh, I recall things were pretty primitive when I got up there. There was
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only about 30 boats only about 30 boats
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working, about 15 a week. I remember 'bout 15 in Karumba. And not the sort of boats people imagine working, about 15 a week. I remember 'bout 15 in Karumba. And not the sort of boats people imagine
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the Gulf they had these days, they were very small. Mostly from Southport, Bundaberg, Northern New South Wales. the Gulf they had these days, they were very small. Mostly from Southport, Bundaberg, Northern New South Wales.
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Virtually no electronic equipment and uh, probably not very effective in their catching capabilities Virtually no electronic equipment and uh, probably not very effective in their catching capabilities
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 but the prawns were pretty thick in those days  but the prawns were pretty thick in those days
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and um, my memories were just, we used to work out of Weipa and [traffic noise]  and um, my memories were just, we used to work out of Weipa and [traffic noise] 
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it was just a matter of, taking off early in the morning, somebody would start a motor up and all the other boats would start and away we'd go. it was just a matter of, taking off early in the morning, somebody would start a motor up and all the other boats would start and away we'd go.
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Half an hour out there, out [inaudible] and the action was on them. The prawns then were pretty thick and the guys knew how to catch 'em. Half an hour out there, out [inaudible] and the action was on them. The prawns then were pretty thick and the guys knew how to catch 'em.
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And uh, all wet boats of course. Unloading on the motherships and uh And uh, all wet boats of course. Unloading on the motherships and uh
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very similar so, certainly changed from those days. That was 1969, I think very similar so, certainly changed from those days. That was 1969, I think
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the first boats started working the first boats started working
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working in 1965, '66 and uh, even in 1969- working in 1965, '66 and uh, even in 1969-
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 there was still only approximately only 30 boats working the Gulf    there was still only approximately only 30 boats working the Gulf  
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here. Or the better part of that year here. Or the better part of that year
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here. And then uh, I think I left in about October, November here. And then uh, I think I left in about October, November
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[inaudible] And uh, while I was up in the Gulf, I heard that uh, [inaudible] And uh, while I was up in the Gulf, I heard that uh,
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it was very lucrative. And uh, seemed millions of miles from where I was and uh it was very lucrative. And uh, seemed millions of miles from where I was and uh
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so I went home, saw my folks and then headed off west and uh, with a friend so I went home, saw my folks and then headed off west and uh, with a friend
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picked a boat up in Fremantle, in uh, for the start of that season. And then for the next 4 years picked a boat up in Fremantle, in uh, for the start of that season. And then for the next 4 years
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to Shark Bay and Carnarvon. [Jack] You were prawning out of Shark Bay? [Sandy] Prawning, [Jack] Yes, [Sandy] Prawning. [Jack] Yeah, what boat were you with? to Shark Bay and Carnarvon. [Jack] You were prawning out of Shark Bay? [Sandy] Prawning, [Jack] Yes, [Sandy] Prawning. [Jack] Yeah, what boat were you with?
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Well I started off on a company boat with Well I started off on a company boat with
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Norwest Whaling, which is Anglosaur really, [?lord bestie?]  Norwest Whaling, which is Anglosaur really, [?lord bestie?] 
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uh, corporation. They- they owned the prawning factory and they owned a substantial uh, corporation. They- they owned the prawning factory and they owned a substantial
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percentage of the prawning fleet ... and I worked on one of their boats at first percentage of the prawning fleet ... and I worked on one of their boats at first
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first year, the second year I worked on Senhora De Fatima, a private boat and I first year, the second year I worked on Senhora De Fatima, a private boat and I
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 a major fishing identity and in those days, Sammy De Jesus  [..]  a major fishing identity and in those days, Sammy De Jesus  [..]
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The third year, I worked a, on another company boat the Nor 4 The third year, I worked a, on another company boat the Nor 4
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with a Skipper called Charlie [Fusse?], pretty recognised with a Skipper called Charlie [Fusse?], pretty recognised
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pretty recognised guy on the Gulf. And then the 4th year, I worked again on the Senora De Fatima. pretty recognised guy on the Gulf. And then the 4th year, I worked again on the Senora De Fatima.
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We uh, on that boat we used to work half the year in Carnarvon and the other half, we used to uh, stay north and finish the year off up in the Gulf. We uh, on that boat we used to work half the year in Carnarvon and the other half, we used to uh, stay north and finish the year off up in the Gulf.
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November, December head back to uh, Fremantle for [...].  Did you run into Ralph [Nest?] November, December head back to uh, Fremantle for [...].  Did you run into Ralph [Nest?]
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No. No.
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[Sandy] No, I don't recall it. [Jack] You stayed there then for quite a considerable [Sandy] No, I don't recall it. [Jack] You stayed there then for quite a considerable
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part of your fishing career, as a deckhand? part of your fishing career, as a deckhand?
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Well uh, yeah well, when I think about it, we were getting up to 1974 now and uh, Well uh, yeah well, when I think about it, we were getting up to 1974 now and uh,
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1972, I was doing some relieving. '73, 1972, I was doing some relieving. '73,
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[silence] [car noise] [silence] [car noise]
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got my first ticket and got another ticket, a bigger ticket. In '73 I started skippering. I was actually got my first ticket and got another ticket, a bigger ticket. In '73 I started skippering. I was actually
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actually uh, '74 I was doing uh, probably 50% of the skippering actually uh, '74 I was doing uh, probably 50% of the skippering
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on Senhora De Fatima so, uh, yeah. But it was good, experience-wise on Senhora De Fatima so, uh, yeah. But it was good, experience-wise
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certainly accumulating experiences. [Jack] So having got your ticket certainly accumulating experiences. [Jack] So having got your ticket
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and uh, some experiences as a skipper over there, you then came back to the east coast, did you? and uh, some experiences as a skipper over there, you then came back to the east coast, did you?
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Well what happened was uh, it's history now, but uh, 1974 was the biggest year Well what happened was uh, it's history now, but uh, 1974 was the biggest year
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and I think in uh, prawn fishing, I suppose. It just seemed to be big every year, everywhere, except the Gulf was and I think in uh, prawn fishing, I suppose. It just seemed to be big every year, everywhere, except the Gulf was
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the prawns are coming up instead of [row] hundreds of kilos are coming out by the time its in the  the prawns are coming up instead of [row] hundreds of kilos are coming out by the time its in the 
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Old and the latter part of 1974 Old and the latter part of 1974
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 on the Senora De Fatima. We never got past Darwin. But we would just shoot away anywhere and just trawl for   on the Senora De Fatima. We never got past Darwin. But we would just shoot away anywhere and just trawl for 
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24 hours a day, we'd 24 hours a day, we'd
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pick up a couple of times just general trawling. There were boats targeting banana prawns but, we didn't really know lot about it  pick up a couple of times just general trawling. There were boats targeting banana prawns but, we didn't really know lot about it 
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and and
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and the skipper owner of the boat wasn't familiar with banana fishering so we used to just drag around and we would just uh and the skipper owner of the boat wasn't familiar with banana fishering so we used to just drag around and we would just uh
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But uh, flat out handling what we could catch just general trawling so there uh, Everybody who was pretty excited about the Gulf But uh, flat out handling what we could catch just general trawling so there uh, Everybody who was pretty excited about the Gulf
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I'd seen it, v-uh very, uh quite early in the peace, but it had a bit of a dormant period I'd seen it, v-uh very, uh quite early in the peace, but it had a bit of a dormant period
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'74 '74
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because of the massive wet and um, the abundance of prawns all of a sudden everyone because of the massive wet and um, the abundance of prawns all of a sudden everyone
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 wanted to be up in the Gulf including myself, I left Carnavon in 1975  wanted to be up in the Gulf including myself, I left Carnavon in 1975
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then I went back back to the Gulf as a mate-come skipper, and uh back with the uh then I went back back to the Gulf as a mate-come skipper, and uh back with the uh
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with the Angless group, they bought out Tipperary, which is a  with the Angless group, they bought out Tipperary, which is a 
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regional company in the Gulf. Had some boats and Angless bought them out with little expense regional company in the Gulf. Had some boats and Angless bought them out with little expense
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that put them in a situation where they had [??] leak and uh that put them in a situation where they had [??] leak and uh
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shore-based facilities in Cairns, so uh shore-based facilities in Cairns, so uh
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I went back working with Angliss under the name of Pen Pak in Cairns, they had  I went back working with Angliss under the name of Pen Pak in Cairns, they had 
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I think 5 or 6 boats and I went on as mate/relief skipper with them in ['75?]  I think 5 or 6 boats and I went on as mate/relief skipper with them in ['75?] 
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and I worked. I was the skipper of the Cape York in '76, and uh in the later part of that year  and I worked. I was the skipper of the Cape York in '76, and uh in the later part of that year 
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the Raptis, I started skippering the Raptis Belle - it was a  the Raptis, I started skippering the Raptis Belle - it was a 
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one of the biggest  one of the biggest 
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 boats in the Gulf and Raptis just seemed to have this stigma about him that he was [a king??]  boats in the Gulf and Raptis just seemed to have this stigma about him that he was [a king??]
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 riding top guys and seemed to be getting a large proportion of the prawns  riding top guys and seemed to be getting a large proportion of the prawns
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 than anyone else and seemed to be the company to work for and really knew how to look after  than anyone else and seemed to be the company to work for and really knew how to look after
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after his skippers, but when I look back now, he must have been in a similiar situation as I am now. after his skippers, but when I look back now, he must have been in a similiar situation as I am now.
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He was uh expecting the absolute maximum out of his skippers because he must have been He was uh expecting the absolute maximum out of his skippers because he must have been
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very highly [geared..?] at that point in time, they were building a couple of boats a year very highly [geared..?] at that point in time, they were building a couple of boats a year
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[static] [static]
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big boats, boats that are unheard of in the Gulf, the gear, and the conditions on board big boats, boats that are unheard of in the Gulf, the gear, and the conditions on board
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they were quite luxurious really but uh he wanted his pound of flesh as well. To tell the truth it was they were quite luxurious really but uh he wanted his pound of flesh as well. To tell the truth it was
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Very hard working for him, and uh- all the same, exciting and certainly rewarding  Very hard working for him, and uh- all the same, exciting and certainly rewarding 
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[Jack] And what was the next step in your career? [Sandy] I'd say it was Raptus and uh [Jack] And what was the next step in your career? [Sandy] I'd say it was Raptus and uh
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to 1981 actually, I drove Raptis Pearl and I took the Brisbane Pearl from [..??]  to 1981 actually, I drove Raptis Pearl and I took the Brisbane Pearl from [..??] 
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from Adelaide and um it was, from Adelaide and um it was,
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that was 1980, I did every that was 1980, I did every
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season up there, I also had my own boat up in the Gulf - we  season up there, I also had my own boat up in the Gulf - we 
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accumulated that along the way. So I was skipper on my boat and was skippering  accumulated that along the way. So I was skipper on my boat and was skippering 
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my boat and uh my boat and uh
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skippering the Brisbane Pearl for Raptis right up 'til 1981.  At the end of '81, I sold out of the Gulf and uh  skippering the Brisbane Pearl for Raptis right up 'til 1981.  At the end of '81, I sold out of the Gulf and uh 
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I didn't like what was happening up there, I thought there were too many boats - '81 was a fantastic year, but I didn't I didn't like what was happening up there, I thought there were too many boats - '81 was a fantastic year, but I didn't
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I didn't like the- what I saw I didn't like the- what I saw
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and the isolation factor and the conditions, the heat, the uh- the wet. and the isolation factor and the conditions, the heat, the uh- the wet.
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Living in Cairns, I had accumulated some assets in Cairns, which uh Living in Cairns, I had accumulated some assets in Cairns, which uh
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wasn't enough to keep there, and I sold out of Cairns and I went- I moved down down to Spencer's Gulf in South Australia wasn't enough to keep there, and I sold out of Cairns and I went- I moved down down to Spencer's Gulf in South Australia
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it was a regulated fishery down there, there was uh- I went down there [..] it was a regulated fishery down there, there was uh- I went down there [..]
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but uh when I arrived, I  I could see what was happening - because it was regulated and because it was but uh when I arrived, I  I could see what was happening - because it was regulated and because it was
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very heavily licensed to the extent that there was only 39 boats in the whole Gulf. very heavily licensed to the extent that there was only 39 boats in the whole Gulf.
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I saw from the first year I was there to the second year, that the price of the licenses had escalated by about 200 percent -0 I saw from the first year I was there to the second year, that the price of the licenses had escalated by about 200 percent -0
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and I just saw myself being priced out of the market, I couldn't buy a boat down there. I looked  and I just saw myself being priced out of the market, I couldn't buy a boat down there. I looked 
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with the limited amount of money that I had, it was just not possible to um with the limited amount of money that I had, it was just not possible to um
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to buy a boat. When I first went down there, licences were about $250,000.00  to buy a boat. When I first went down there, licences were about $250,000.00 
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and after the first year, that was an exceptional year - that was '82 and after the first year, that was an exceptional year - that was '82
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'82 '82
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was an exceptional year and licenses went to about a million dollars because of the turnover of the boats, so I just stayed  was an exceptional year and licenses went to about a million dollars because of the turnover of the boats, so I just stayed 
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skippering boats down there until uh skippering boats down there until uh
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I came to Queensland. I could see um there was good money to be made down there and I thought well, I'll just stick- I came to Queensland. I could see um there was good money to be made down there and I thought well, I'll just stick-
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skipper's remuneration is good, and I'll save me money and accumulate me money- and I thought I can't buy a boat down  skipper's remuneration is good, and I'll save me money and accumulate me money- and I thought I can't buy a boat down 
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here I can come to Queensland here I can come to Queensland
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to Queensland - for the same amount of money you can buy 3 or 4 boats in Queensland, because the licenses to Queensland - for the same amount of money you can buy 3 or 4 boats in Queensland, because the licenses
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hadn't escalated, the licenses content on the boat was about $30,000.00 hadn't escalated, the licenses content on the boat was about $30,000.00
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dollars, whereas at Spence's Gulf, about a million dollars so that's what I actually did, I came to Queensland  dollars, whereas at Spence's Gulf, about a million dollars so that's what I actually did, I came to Queensland 
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Queensland, instead of buying a boat down there, I went to Queensland and bought 2 boats in '86. [Jack] And went prawning? Queensland, instead of buying a boat down there, I went to Queensland and bought 2 boats in '86. [Jack] And went prawning?
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Always loved Molloollabah and I knew the Always loved Molloollabah and I knew the
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place reasonably well, one of my closest friends was- the  place reasonably well, one of my closest friends was- the 
13:37

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Carnavan had come here and was doing well. I still kept in contact with him and had a pretty  Carnavan had come here and was doing well. I still kept in contact with him and had a pretty 
13:43

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fair idea what was going on and I thought well, it's close to where my parents live, it's close to a capital city -  fair idea what was going on and I thought well, it's close to where my parents live, it's close to a capital city - 
13:50

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Nice place to live, it's a very nice climate and it's reasonably lucrative so uh  Nice place to live, it's a very nice climate and it's reasonably lucrative so uh 
13:53

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that's what made me decide to come here. [Jack] And you- that's what made me decide to come here. [Jack] And you-
14:01

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boats and have skippers on both of them, one's prawning is it, and one's scale fish? [Sandy] Yes, now we've got uh boats and have skippers on both of them, one's prawning is it, and one's scale fish? [Sandy] Yes, now we've got uh
14:08

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I had a- when I came to Mooloolaba I bought a boat, and then a friend from Adelaide came up and he wanted to get involved so he  I had a- when I came to Mooloolaba I bought a boat, and then a friend from Adelaide came up and he wanted to get involved so he 
14:15

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bought a bought a
14:16

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a quarter share in my company, and then we bought another prawn trawler and we a quarter share in my company, and then we bought another prawn trawler and we
14:24

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got to facilitate the boats. When I look back it was a  got to facilitate the boats. When I look back it was a 
14:30

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[..] the workshop was more experience than  [..] the workshop was more experience than 
14:39

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it was a base, it was an office and it served it's purpose but I bought my partner out. I sold the workshop. it was a base, it was an office and it served it's purpose but I bought my partner out. I sold the workshop.
14:48

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[...] South Australia and Port Lincoln Ship construction and then sold the original boat  [...] South Australia and Port Lincoln Ship construction and then sold the original boat 
14:54

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at Port Pirie then last year bought another boat to replace that, the Pirie Venture. at Port Pirie then last year bought another boat to replace that, the Pirie Venture.
15:01

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[static] [static]
15:10

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[Tell?] Something of the major changes that you've been involved  [Tell?] Something of the major changes that you've been involved 
15:18

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in or that have been involved- the industry has been involved in really? in or that have been involved- the industry has been involved in really?
15:22

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I don't think the major change in my period has been in boats because when I recall I don't think the major change in my period has been in boats because when I recall
15:29

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this I mentioned before the Senora de Fatima, was build in 19- this I mentioned before the Senora de Fatima, was build in 19-
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'71 and that boat's quite similar to the boats that are being used now. Sure, it was probably 10 or 15 '71 and that boat's quite similar to the boats that are being used now. Sure, it was probably 10 or 15
15:43

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time, but those boats that were around then the same freezing, snap-freezing capabilities - the split time, but those boats that were around then the same freezing, snap-freezing capabilities - the split
15:49

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haul winches, the twin radars, and the dollars that he spent on that boat- the air conditioning and all of that. haul winches, the twin radars, and the dollars that he spent on that boat- the air conditioning and all of that.
15:55

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At that period At that period
15:56

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 of time- even though it was revolutionary then those boats were in the industry when  of time- even though it was revolutionary then those boats were in the industry when
16:03

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exactly when I started but after about 2 or 3 years, so I don't think that major changes have been in the- in the- exactly when I started but after about 2 or 3 years, so I don't think that major changes have been in the- in the-
16:09

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[...] when I say that I'm sort of really only talking about prawn trawling - [...] when I say that I'm sort of really only talking about prawn trawling -
16:15

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there's  pretty nice boats early in the piece, the Senorina Pearl used to work up in the Gulf and had processing gear   there's  pretty nice boats early in the piece, the Senorina Pearl used to work up in the Gulf and had processing gear  
16:22

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had [?bayers?] on those sort of things, big brine tanks, beautiful accommodation - I think the most dramatic change I've seen is the fact had [?bayers?] on those sort of things, big brine tanks, beautiful accommodation - I think the most dramatic change I've seen is the fact
16:28

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that the bases can't [??] countryside around Australia that the bases can't [??] countryside around Australia
16:32

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I love the Easter, we used to leave Carnarvon, like I said earlier, and um at the end of the season I love the Easter, we used to leave Carnarvon, like I said earlier, and um at the end of the season
16:37

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leave one fishery and just head up, and we could virtually go anywhere in Australia leave one fishery and just head up, and we could virtually go anywhere in Australia
16:41

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if we wanted to.  I'd seen at Spencer's Gulf they change the situation fairly early in the peace,  if we wanted to.  I'd seen at Spencer's Gulf they change the situation fairly early in the peace, 
16:49

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the guys were using tuna baits to catch prawns and they- they said- the Fish Management Authority the guys were using tuna baits to catch prawns and they- they said- the Fish Management Authority
16:55

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 down there said "Right guys, you're either prawning or your- uh or your tuna fishing, you can't- [do both?]"  down there said "Right guys, you're either prawning or your- uh or your tuna fishing, you can't- [do both?]"
17:02

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The smart guys, in that instance was the Yugoslavs who decided well, The smart guys, in that instance was the Yugoslavs who decided well,
17:10

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the [...] boat for tuna, so they ended up with two boats the [...] boat for tuna, so they ended up with two boats
17:12

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whereas the Australian guys, not generally but uh- a bit of a generalisation  whereas the Australian guys, not generally but uh- a bit of a generalisation 
17:17

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 I think, but it happened in more than one cases, whereas the Australian guys said 'Right we'll just stay prawning" instead   I think, but it happened in more than one cases, whereas the Australian guys said 'Right we'll just stay prawning" instead 
17:23

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and taking the opportunity of having the two boats. I think that ex- and taking the opportunity of having the two boats. I think that ex-
17:27

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explains why the Yugoslavs fishermen are so successful. explains why the Yugoslavs fishermen are so successful.
17:35

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Guys like Sammy Suza- there's a few of them down there thought, "well okay we're goin'..[to the Gulf?...]" Guys like Sammy Suza- there's a few of them down there thought, "well okay we're goin'..[to the Gulf?...]"
17:42

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if we'd been stopped from going up to the Gulf, we've got a perfect opportunity now of building- leaving  if we'd been stopped from going up to the Gulf, we've got a perfect opportunity now of building- leaving 
17:48

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the boat we're using  the boat we're using 
17:49

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in Spencer's- in Shark Bay - leave that vessel there and we'll build another one for the Gulf in Spencer's- in Shark Bay - leave that vessel there and we'll build another one for the Gulf
17:56

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Just say, 'oh we can't go to the Gulf anymore, righto- we'll forget about the Gulf and just stay here'. Just say, 'oh we can't go to the Gulf anymore, righto- we'll forget about the Gulf and just stay here'.
17:60

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They took a very shrewd business opportunity and saying  They took a very shrewd business opportunity and saying 
18:03

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saying well, 'the government's stopping us doing it but they're not stopping us being able to build  saying well, 'the government's stopping us doing it but they're not stopping us being able to build 
18:08

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 a boat to go into that fishery'.  It wasn't actually- the movement of boats was stopped but the limited entry into the  a boat to go into that fishery'.  It wasn't actually- the movement of boats was stopped but the limited entry into the
18:15

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[static] [static]
18:15

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into the Gulf of Carpentaria wasn't stopped at that time, so you found that these guys were leaving their boats   into the Gulf of Carpentaria wasn't stopped at that time, so you found that these guys were leaving their boats  
18:21

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 in Shark Bay or some guys were leaving their boats on the east coast and then building separate boats for the Gulf  in Shark Bay or some guys were leaving their boats on the east coast and then building separate boats for the Gulf
18:30

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and they were able to get away with it, but all of a sudden, the Authority realised  and they were able to get away with it, but all of a sudden, the Authority realised 
18:33

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 that they were creating a bit of a monster because the guys were uh  that they were creating a bit of a monster because the guys were uh
18:38

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using the Gulf as an- as an opportunity to expand and I think that is where the um using the Gulf as an- as an opportunity to expand and I think that is where the um
18:45

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best pressure in the Gulf, I speak of the Gulf because really everything in Australia, prawn-wise  best pressure in the Gulf, I speak of the Gulf because really everything in Australia, prawn-wise 
18:52

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you can relate it back to the Gulf, because that's where all the action was, that's where all the big company operators were and that's where all the money  in the boats  you can relate it back to the Gulf, because that's where all the action was, that's where all the big company operators were and that's where all the money  in the boats 
18:58

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were being spent. Not only that, it was also becoming a bit of a dumping ground beause were being spent. Not only that, it was also becoming a bit of a dumping ground beause
19:03

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 guys could say, 'well  guys could say, 'well
19:05

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I've got an excess of boats' or there's boats coming out of fish trawling going up into the Gulf I've got an excess of boats' or there's boats coming out of fish trawling going up into the Gulf
19:12

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because the money was to be made and it wasn't until they actually said "Right, that'll do! because the money was to be made and it wasn't until they actually said "Right, that'll do!
19:16

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We don't want any more boats up there, we're going to have limited entry!" - when they did that We don't want any more boats up there, we're going to have limited entry!" - when they did that
19:20

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that stopped it, but it also created another problem because uh the Queensland east coast that stopped it, but it also created another problem because uh the Queensland east coast
19:27

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 was the new dumping ground for boats, when I say dumping ground- guys built a new boat for their fishery    was the new dumping ground for boats, when I say dumping ground- guys built a new boat for their fishery  
19:33

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at Spencer's Gulf or the Gulf or Shark Bay, they build a new boat and sell it off to Queensland  at Spencer's Gulf or the Gulf or Shark Bay, they build a new boat and sell it off to Queensland 
19:40

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Queensland, so what happened was uh Queensland, so what happened was uh
19:44

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every uh possible boat that could be- people get  every uh possible boat that could be- people get 
19:51

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could get their hands on or wanted to get rid of, was ending up in Queensland and that's what put the pressure on the east coast and it's ultimately the Gulf could get their hands on or wanted to get rid of, was ending up in Queensland and that's what put the pressure on the east coast and it's ultimately the Gulf
19:56

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and then the skim off to the east coast, and I think now we've go about 1200 boats on the east coast of Queensland and then the skim off to the east coast, and I think now we've go about 1200 boats on the east coast of Queensland
20:03

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and all this was brought about by regulating other fisheries, I believe anyway. And uh and all this was brought about by regulating other fisheries, I believe anyway. And uh
20:09

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I look at it as the east coast of Queensland has become a dumping ground, there's a lot of old boats here, a lot of inefficient  I look at it as the east coast of Queensland has become a dumping ground, there's a lot of old boats here, a lot of inefficient 
20:15

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boats but it still adds up to approximately 1200 boats, boats but it still adds up to approximately 1200 boats,
20:22

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[..] and finally, they've regulated the east coast of Queensland but they [won't provide privacy sheds for one?]  [..] and finally, they've regulated the east coast of Queensland but they [won't provide privacy sheds for one?] 
20:30

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[Jack] Regulations put in place, in the first place, was it to limit effort. [Sandy] Well, solely [Jack] Regulations put in place, in the first place, was it to limit effort. [Sandy] Well, solely
20:36

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 to limit effort I think because uh if you could use the east coast of Queensland - I wasn't in   to limit effort I think because uh if you could use the east coast of Queensland - I wasn't in 
20:43

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a situation, I'm in a situation to comment now, so a situation, I'm in a situation to comment now, so
20:46

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it's alright to be smart after the event, or in hindsight or whatever, but I think the guys in Queensland it's alright to be smart after the event, or in hindsight or whatever, but I think the guys in Queensland
20:52

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Queensland should have realised that boat owners, I wasn't a boat owner, I was a deck hand - Queensland should have realised that boat owners, I wasn't a boat owner, I was a deck hand -
20:58

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a pretty wild one at that, but uh the boat owners should have realised- I could see it because I went to Carnavon  a pretty wild one at that, but uh the boat owners should have realised- I could see it because I went to Carnavon 
21:04

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very early in the peace and there was already quite a high uh very early in the peace and there was already quite a high uh
21:09

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um dollar content on licenses then, in the very early '70's. I think guys in Queensland should have said, well um dollar content on licenses then, in the very early '70's. I think guys in Queensland should have said, well
21:16

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right oh- well, there's only 30 or 40 boats in Shark Bay, 'let's have 30 or 40 boats in each port and close it up' and I think if they'd done that, say they had right oh- well, there's only 30 or 40 boats in Shark Bay, 'let's have 30 or 40 boats in each port and close it up' and I think if they'd done that, say they had
21:23

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 30 in  30 in
21:23

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Moolloobah, 30 in Townsville, 30 in Cairns - I think if they'd made their decision then  Moolloobah, 30 in Townsville, 30 in Cairns - I think if they'd made their decision then 
21:30

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we'd have a totally different situation, 10 million dollar licenses on boats and you'd   we'd have a totally different situation, 10 million dollar licenses on boats and you'd  
21:34

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have guys with a regulated industry and a good  have guys with a regulated industry and a good 
21:40

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good livelihood out of it, I think that's when they should have used   good livelihood out of it, I think that's when they should have used  
21:43

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these areas like Spencer's Gulf and Shark's Bay as examples these areas like Spencer's Gulf and Shark's Bay as examples
21:48

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of Fish management all over - should have instigated it, should have brought those of Fish management all over - should have instigated it, should have brought those
21:53

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policies into effect then, because this regulation is um- it makes industry policies into effect then, because this regulation is um- it makes industry
21:60

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 out of it, it's highly lucrative for those that are in there, but that's what it's all about if you get in  out of it, it's highly lucrative for those that are in there, but that's what it's all about if you get in
22:07

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and set it up right then you've got something for it. Whereas in Queensland, now we've got a situation shore licences and set it up right then you've got something for it. Whereas in Queensland, now we've got a situation shore licences
22:13

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appreciated a couple of years ago but now they're virtually back to worth nothing appreciated a couple of years ago but now they're virtually back to worth nothing
22:16

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because licenses are because licenses are
22:18

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purely based on your guarantee of turnover - the way I see it - if you've got a lucrative fishery of 30 to 40 purely based on your guarantee of turnover - the way I see it - if you've got a lucrative fishery of 30 to 40
22:25

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boats who catch exactly the same each year, you've got a perfect situation  boats who catch exactly the same each year, you've got a perfect situation 
22:32

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boats running up and down the coastline, with no real strategy in place because um boats running up and down the coastline, with no real strategy in place because um
22:39

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no uh no uh
22:46

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[plan?] for the next season [plan?] for the next season
22:46

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gonna go. [Jack] Sandy, would you say, that the total cash is declining gonna go. [Jack] Sandy, would you say, that the total cash is declining
22:57

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being shared between too many boats? [Sandy] I think you'd have to say that it's  being shared between too many boats? [Sandy] I think you'd have to say that it's 
23:04

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It's hard to tell because unless you actually got boats in areas, and compare your catches each year- it's been hard for me because It's hard to tell because unless you actually got boats in areas, and compare your catches each year- it's been hard for me because
23:11

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in the in-shore fishery- I've been out of it- I've been out of the in-shore fishery now for a couple of years in the in-shore fishery- I've been out of it- I've been out of the in-shore fishery now for a couple of years
23:16

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with our deep-water operation, it's very hard to tell- nobody wants to  with our deep-water operation, it's very hard to tell- nobody wants to 
23:20

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talk figures talk figures
23:21

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figures because of price fluctuations there and different species being caught figures because of price fluctuations there and different species being caught
23:25

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caught - I'd say most- I'm speaking solely of the east coast of Queensland, I've got a pretty fair idea what goes on caught - I'd say most- I'm speaking solely of the east coast of Queensland, I've got a pretty fair idea what goes on
23:32

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in other places. I know, in Shark Bay the catch has been very, very uh in other places. I know, in Shark Bay the catch has been very, very uh
23:37

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level each year. Spencer's Gulf settled down into a good performing fishery, the Gulf's definitely level each year. Spencer's Gulf settled down into a good performing fishery, the Gulf's definitely
23:45

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in badly, and the east coast it's hard to tell, there's only boats, people doing scalloping, people  in badly, and the east coast it's hard to tell, there's only boats, people doing scalloping, people 
23:50

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doing pike, people doing king prawns, people-  doing pike, people doing king prawns, people- 
23:53

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there is people doing tiger prawns - just very hard to keep up with what - what's going on.  there is people doing tiger prawns - just very hard to keep up with what - what's going on. 
23:59

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The tonnage is probably very similiar, there shouldn't be any more boats, the boats have become more efficient on the east coast, for sure. The tonnage is probably very similiar, there shouldn't be any more boats, the boats have become more efficient on the east coast, for sure.
24:06

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There was a bit of a boo-boo made when the [unitisation?] was brought into place and they said 'Righto everyone can have 400 horse-power' There was a bit of a boo-boo made when the [unitisation?] was brought into place and they said 'Righto everyone can have 400 horse-power'
24:13

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instead of limting- limiting to the regional instead of limting- limiting to the regional
24:16

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application for each boat, they just said 'right, everyone can have 400 horse-power'. Well that put on application for each boat, they just said 'right, everyone can have 400 horse-power'. Well that put on
24:22

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It probably doubled the effort of the fishery, because boats became more efficient but um It probably doubled the effort of the fishery, because boats became more efficient but um
24:27

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I think that the catch rate on the east coast of Queensland is slowly declining, I wouldn't say dramatically - I think that the catch rate on the east coast of Queensland is slowly declining, I wouldn't say dramatically -
24:33

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it's slowly declining but uh it's slowly declining but uh
24:40

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it's not a situation I can comment on. [Jack] Do the uh it's not a situation I can comment on. [Jack] Do the uh
24:50

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fishermen have a say in the management of the industry in Queensland, would you say? [Sandy] Well, I think fishermen have a say in the management of the industry in Queensland, would you say? [Sandy] Well, I think
24:55

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that's what- that's the way it's meant to be, the way I see it, the Fish Management Authority that's what- that's the way it's meant to be, the way I see it, the Fish Management Authority
25:02

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or the Fisheries Department, whatever- whichever state they're in, or whatever name they're referred to,  or the Fisheries Department, whatever- whichever state they're in, or whatever name they're referred to, 
25:09

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as they are there- they should be there purely to bring into force the wishes of the [fishermen?] as they are there- they should be there purely to bring into force the wishes of the [fishermen?]
25:17

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logical way of looking at it, I'm sure there are different interpretations, most fishermen uh logical way of looking at it, I'm sure there are different interpretations, most fishermen uh
25:22

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can't express themselves properly because they don't know the bureaucratic way of putting these things- things can't express themselves properly because they don't know the bureaucratic way of putting these things- things
25:28

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into force or legislation whatever's required for rulings but uh I think in Queensland, where the Queensland [??] into force or legislation whatever's required for rulings but uh I think in Queensland, where the Queensland [??]
25:36

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[.organisation?..] I don't think anything the Queensland Fish Management Authority, the government body should do [.organisation?..] I don't think anything the Queensland Fish Management Authority, the government body should do
25:42

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should be- should be done without the authority of the QCFO basically should be- should be done without the authority of the QCFO basically
25:50

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it regulates almost all the fishermen in Queensland. They have regular meeting with delegates up and down the coast and it regulates almost all the fishermen in Queensland. They have regular meeting with delegates up and down the coast and
25:57

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as far as I'm concerned, the Fish Management Authority are there to police what the QCFO require.  as far as I'm concerned, the Fish Management Authority are there to police what the QCFO require. 
26:04

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Marketing's a particularly sensitive and important-  Marketing's a particularly sensitive and important- 
26:11

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[aspect?] fishing, of course. Is your catch exported or- or is it marketed locally? Oh Predominantly,  [aspect?] fishing, of course. Is your catch exported or- or is it marketed locally? Oh Predominantly, 
26:18

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Predominately exported. I'm in a situation where I am not big enough to get involved in exporting my own product and there's um  Predominately exported. I'm in a situation where I am not big enough to get involved in exporting my own product and there's um 
26:25

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a lot of pitfalls with that unfortunately but uh  a lot of pitfalls with that unfortunately but uh 
26:29

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I use an agent in one situation, with a new fishery I'm involved in  I use an agent in one situation, with a new fishery I'm involved in 
26:35

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now. I go through an agent, we export this trawl whiting - the uh - one of my vessels [in the Gulf?] now. I go through an agent, we export this trawl whiting - the uh - one of my vessels [in the Gulf?]
26:42

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which is involved with trawled whiting. We're exporting that direct from the boat into a  which is involved with trawled whiting. We're exporting that direct from the boat into a 
26:49

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container - agent handling that in Brisbane, container - agent handling that in Brisbane,
26:51

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and our other product, at this point in time anyway, is king prawns and uh and our other product, at this point in time anyway, is king prawns and uh
26:58

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we do a product by doing a 3-kilo pack, it's probably uh we do a product by doing a 3-kilo pack, it's probably uh
27:04

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 It's the quality king prawn you'd find anywhere, graded superbly, packed well - we're selling that direct in [?...]  It's the quality king prawn you'd find anywhere, graded superbly, packed well - we're selling that direct in [?...]
27:13

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[...] but it's done as an export standard pack which just at this point of time  [...] but it's done as an export standard pack which just at this point of time 
27:18

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the local markets paying the price and that's why we're doing it.  We had a fairly extensive  the local markets paying the price and that's why we're doing it.  We had a fairly extensive 
27:25

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dealing through Raptus but dealing direct export off the boat with the [?] scarlet   dealing through Raptus but dealing direct export off the boat with the [?] scarlet  
27:31

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red and king prawns. We did approximately two years on that and uh- red and king prawns. We did approximately two years on that and uh-
27:38

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but then again, I wasn't exporting it myself uh good fisheries weren't exporting. but then again, I wasn't exporting it myself uh good fisheries weren't exporting.
27:45

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[static] [static]
27:54

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[end] [end]