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This is the morning of 8th of my 9092. And it wrestles restaurant its normal cell This is the morning of 8th of my 9092. And it wrestles restaurant its normal cell
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very talking with Mr John Perkins from the United States Mr Perkins can you tell me very talking with Mr John Perkins from the United States Mr Perkins can you tell me
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[ John] Now now, how do I start? My name is John Perkins. [Niles] It's fine. [John] and ah [ John] Now now, how do I start? My name is John Perkins. [Niles] It's fine. [John] and ah
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Originally hometown was Windsor, Connecticut. You might be interested in little bit of the Originally hometown was Windsor, Connecticut. You might be interested in little bit of the
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of the history about our town and our country. The town of Windsor of the history about our town and our country. The town of Windsor
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is the oldest permanent settlement in the state of Connecticut, ir was settled in is the oldest permanent settlement in the state of Connecticut, ir was settled in
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1633. Now when you think that Plymouth Massachusetts was 1633. Now when you think that Plymouth Massachusetts was
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settled in 1620 that's just 13 years [Niles] right. [John] and these people travelled settled in 1620 that's just 13 years [Niles] right. [John] and these people travelled
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about 150 miles, as the crow flies,  into the wilderness to form about 150 miles, as the crow flies,  into the wilderness to form
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a new settlement on a new settlement on
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River. [Niles] Yeah. [John] So it- it- it amazes me, I- I always enjoy history. River. [Niles] Yeah. [John] So it- it- it amazes me, I- I always enjoy history.
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We have in our town, historical sites and there are many buildings. We have in our town, historical sites and there are many buildings.
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with the dates on them they have an association, an Historical Association that have placards made up with the dates on them they have an association, an Historical Association that have placards made up
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 that dates when the house was built. [Niles] Yes. [John] We have one house that was actually built in 1633  that dates when the house was built. [Niles] Yes. [John] We have one house that was actually built in 1633
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that's maintained and it's been kept and it's been added to as an historical site. [Niles] Right, yeah. that's maintained and it's been kept and it's been added to as an historical site. [Niles] Right, yeah.
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 and so it's ah but I have to confess being  and so it's ah but I have to confess being
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a native of Windsor and all that I have yet to visit that place and I love museums.[Niles laughs] a native of Windsor and all that I have yet to visit that place and I love museums.[Niles laughs]
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just I never have the bloody time to go there. [ Niles laughs] But anyway I was drafted just I never have the bloody time to go there. [ Niles laughs] But anyway I was drafted
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in 1940. The first time we ever won in 1940. The first time we ever won
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a prize in my life and I won won the second draft. If you know anything about a prize in my life and I won won the second draft. If you know anything about
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 us we had one draft and then there was another draft and I got in on the second draft.  us we had one draft and then there was another draft and I got in on the second draft.
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 Now I was what maybe 24 years old at that time. [Cafe Noise]  Now I was what maybe 24 years old at that time. [Cafe Noise]
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I just bought that new convertible I spoke to you about. [Niles] Yes...laughs. [John] That Super 6 convertible maroon I just bought that new convertible I spoke to you about. [Niles] Yes...laughs. [John] That Super 6 convertible maroon
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with red leather Moroccan seats in it and absolutely a fabulous car. Had a good job with red leather Moroccan seats in it and absolutely a fabulous car. Had a good job
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 making good money for a kid  making good money for a kid
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in the middle of the Depression. [Niles] What were you doing? [John] I was ah a woodworker in the middle of the Depression. [Niles] What were you doing? [John] I was ah a woodworker
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[Niles] hmmhmm. [John] And then started working a small [Niles] hmmhmm. [John] And then started working a small
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 business right after I got graduated  from High School. And actually I ended up there [cafe noise]  business right after I got graduated  from High School. And actually I ended up there [cafe noise]
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 after something like 60 years of working for them as President of the place and owning it  after something like 60 years of working for them as President of the place and owning it
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 so uh, that's how it goes. Well anyway now  so uh, that's how it goes. Well anyway now
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I'm mad at the United States government because I'm being drafted in peacetime and I can see I'm mad at the United States government because I'm being drafted in peacetime and I can see
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 no reason to do that. Take a year out of my life. This is a 21  no reason to do that. Take a year out of my life. This is a 21
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days... 21 dollars a day once a month deal  days... 21 dollars a day once a month deal 
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 that we got paid. [Niles] Yes. [John] And uh I'm mad at the  that we got paid. [Niles] Yes. [John] And uh I'm mad at the
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United States government. Well 9 months later war is declared. United States government. Well 9 months later war is declared.
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Now I'm mad at the Japanese and I'm mad at the Germans. So got three of them to be mad at.[laughs] Now I'm mad at the Japanese and I'm mad at the Germans. So got three of them to be mad at.[laughs]
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[laughs] [Niles] Understandable. [John] Things-  things weren't as as bad  [laughs] [Niles] Understandable. [John] Things-  things weren't as as bad 
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 as bad as they sound? it was a soft life.  as bad as they sound? it was a soft life.
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 life. The outfit we had was made up almost exclusively  life. The outfit we had was made up almost exclusively
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 of Connecticut men. They had been Cavalry units of the National Guard  of Connecticut men. They had been Cavalry units of the National Guard
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 that had been federalised and converted to  that had been federalised and converted to
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mobile anti- aircraft units. Now that's a far cry mobile anti- aircraft units. Now that's a far cry
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 from anti- from horses to anti- aircraft [Niles] Yes definitely. [John] But they did it.   from anti- from horses to anti- aircraft [Niles] Yes definitely. [John] But they did it. 
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War was- war was declared. I'd say we'd had 9 months with the regiment, it  War was- war was declared. I'd say we'd had 9 months with the regiment, it 
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 it was a Connecticut regiment  it was a Connecticut regiment
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 so you're bound to know someone in the regiment. [Niles] Yep hhmm  so you're bound to know someone in the regiment. [Niles] Yep hhmm
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 and we did I found quite a few people that  and we did I found quite a few people that
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 I know or who knew people who I know. [Niles] Yep. [John]Well it didn't take us long.  I know or who knew people who I know. [Niles] Yep. [John]Well it didn't take us long.
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 Immediately after war was declared we were shipped up to Fall River to set  Immediately after war was declared we were shipped up to Fall River to set
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up the guns around the Falls River uh Navy yard. up the guns around the Falls River uh Navy yard.
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 Stayed 2 or 3  weeks and back at Camp Edwards we went on Cape Cod  Stayed 2 or 3  weeks and back at Camp Edwards we went on Cape Cod
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 And uh in February we were in San Francisco. [Niles] Right.  And uh in February we were in San Francisco. [Niles] Right.
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Now that was so early in this thing, that they didn't have troop trains. Our unit our headquarters bat- Now that was so early in this thing, that they didn't have troop trains. Our unit our headquarters bat-
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battery I was a member of the 2- battery I was a member of the 2-
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 anti- aircraft regiment at um and in the headquarters 1st Battalion.  anti- aircraft regiment at um and in the headquarters 1st Battalion.
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 We travelled in private compartments. My battery did. [Niles] Wow  We travelled in private compartments. My battery did. [Niles] Wow
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3 men to a compartment 3 men to a compartment
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 Now that's 1st class. That's 1st class in any country so it was  Now that's 1st class. That's 1st class in any country so it was
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a pleasant experience going across country. Spent a week in California a pleasant experience going across country. Spent a week in California
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and then they put us on the 'Matsonia' which had not even had time to be converted and then they put us on the 'Matsonia' which had not even had time to be converted
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 to a troop ship  to a troop ship
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 so facilities there were not too bad either. [Niles] Yes [John] I think it took us almost  so facilities there were not too bad either. [Niles] Yes [John] I think it took us almost
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a month to cross the Pacific. I don't know, it seemed an awful long time. We hit a tremendous storm a month to cross the Pacific. I don't know, it seemed an awful long time. We hit a tremendous storm
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in the Tasman sea. My god, I've never seen water so high. It must have been 40 - 50 in the Tasman sea. My god, I've never seen water so high. It must have been 40 - 50
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 feet straight up [Niles] Truly. [John] as the ship rocked   feet straight up [Niles] Truly. [John] as the ship rocked 
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 rock n'roll but uh now we get to to Australia.  rock n'roll but uh now we get to to Australia.
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Impressions and feelings. We came up. We landed in Brisbane we came up Impressions and feelings. We came up. We landed in Brisbane we came up
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Into the port and I remember it as a sort of estuary Into the port and I remember it as a sort of estuary
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 that didn't seem too wide  as the time as I told you yesterday and the beautiful  that didn't seem too wide  as the time as I told you yesterday and the beautiful
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cottages and houses lining both sides. The banks sloped up from both sides up in smaller hills cottages and houses lining both sides. The banks sloped up from both sides up in smaller hills
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 And the beautiful multicoloured or many coloured tiled roofs.  And the beautiful multicoloured or many coloured tiled roofs.
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?? It was the South Seas as it was supposed to be. Brisbane was was an ?? It was the South Seas as it was supposed to be. Brisbane was was an
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experience. We didn't see too much of Brisbane. We were stuck out in some experience. We didn't see too much of Brisbane. We were stuck out in some
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racetrack I think it was, and we stayed there a week. We were able to get into town I think I told you yester- racetrack I think it was, and we stayed there a week. We were able to get into town I think I told you yester-
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think I told you yesterday. And we found prices were a lot think I told you yesterday. And we found prices were a lot
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better than they were at home. [Niles] Really [John] Items that were very, very better than they were at home. [Niles] Really [John] Items that were very, very
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 good quality items were much cheaper. I didn't smoke at the time as I told you but I  good quality items were much cheaper. I didn't smoke at the time as I told you but I
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spotted a brace? of pipes spotted a brace? of pipes
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[Niles] Yeah [John] sober trimming and everything. They were absolutely beautiful. I bought those  [Niles] Yeah [John] sober trimming and everything. They were absolutely beautiful. I bought those 
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Because it was such a bargain you couldn't resist Because it was such a bargain you couldn't resist
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Bought that Sheffield straight edge razor that was another tremendous bargain. Bought that Sheffield straight edge razor that was another tremendous bargain.
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Uh first time you  had steak and eggs in Brisbane [cafe noise] Uh first time you  had steak and eggs in Brisbane [cafe noise]
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 Steak and Eggs (Aussie accent)[Niles laughs] wonderful experience. Good steak.  Steak and Eggs (Aussie accent)[Niles laughs] wonderful experience. Good steak.
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You know, we didn't have such good steaks up in Townsville though [Niles] Right. [John] But in Brisbane the steaks were good. You know, we didn't have such good steaks up in Townsville though [Niles] Right. [John] But in Brisbane the steaks were good.
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 were good. We didn't get to socialise with people and meet people there just wasn't any time  were good. We didn't get to socialise with people and meet people there just wasn't any time
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 and I wasn't too much in the interested in meeting people in those days.  and I wasn't too much in the interested in meeting people in those days.
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Ah, what other experience now. Very, very Ah, what other experience now. Very, very
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surprised that the waitresses in the restaurants wouldn't accept tips. [Niles] Right. [John] They were actually insulted. surprised that the waitresses in the restaurants wouldn't accept tips. [Niles] Right. [John] They were actually insulted.
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 Never saw so many beautiful  Never saw so many beautiful
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 platinum blonde girls in my whole life [Niles] Really [John] before or since as you had in Australia  platinum blonde girls in my whole life [Niles] Really [John] before or since as you had in Australia
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pretty girls, pretty girls. One had the impression though that generally speaking the teeth  pretty girls, pretty girls. One had the impression though that generally speaking the teeth 
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 were bad. You should have done more about your teeth in those days and I guess you have  were bad. You should have done more about your teeth in those days and I guess you have
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between then and now because I see people with full smiles. [Niles laughs] That's right aha between then and now because I see people with full smiles. [Niles laughs] That's right aha
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  today but you know I haven't seen the platinum blondes. Maybe my eyesight is failing   today but you know I haven't seen the platinum blondes. Maybe my eyesight is failing
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is fading or something. [both laugh] is fading or something. [both laugh]
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 But there [Niles] Times change. [John] were so many such pretty girls. Well anyway three or four days  But there [Niles] Times change. [John] were so many such pretty girls. Well anyway three or four days
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time time
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 just blurs and there are many blank spots in my memory. I know are there months  just blurs and there are many blank spots in my memory. I know are there months
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that I have no memory no recollection at all of what happened [Niles] Right. [John]or where I've been. [Niles] Yep that I have no memory no recollection at all of what happened [Niles] Right. [John]or where I've been. [Niles] Yep
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Where [???] boarded a train narrow gauge Where [???] boarded a train narrow gauge
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 and it was to us it was amusing a small small  and it was to us it was amusing a small small
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 tramp? station unit and we started up to Townsville.  tramp? station unit and we started up to Townsville.
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No facilities, for the how many days it took. I've forgotten how many days it took 3, 4 or 5 days No facilities, for the how many days it took. I've forgotten how many days it took 3, 4 or 5 days
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whatever it took. I know we had to sleep in all that. But there were no cooking facilities whatever it took. I know we had to sleep in all that. But there were no cooking facilities
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 but we stopped at various stations along the road and there were the ladies  but we stopped at various stations along the road and there were the ladies
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 with their Teao and uh their crumpets and biscuits and everything else and this was [Niles] Yes right  with their Teao and uh their crumpets and biscuits and everything else and this was [Niles] Yes right
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the way we were fed coming up. Sleeping facilities were none. Wooden the way we were fed coming up. Sleeping facilities were none. Wooden
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benches. These were primitive,  primitive by our standards - primitive conditions benches. These were primitive,  primitive by our standards - primitive conditions
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and we belly-ached an awful lot about them of course. and we belly-ached an awful lot about them of course.
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Im imagine trying to sleep on a hard Im imagine trying to sleep on a hard
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bench bench
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bench it was very,  very difficult, very difficult but uh necessity is the mother of invention. bench it was very,  very difficult, very difficult but uh necessity is the mother of invention.
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 And the lazy guys the ones with no  imagination would curl up on a bench or on the floor  And the lazy guys the ones with no  imagination would curl up on a bench or on the floor
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 or out on the back platform in between someplace where ever they could fit  or out on the back platform in between someplace where ever they could fit
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 and they're sleeping like cattle in the bloody cattle car but those of us with a little  and they're sleeping like cattle in the bloody cattle car but those of us with a little
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 imagination those of us I would say who were fortunate enough to have a piece  imagination those of us I would say who were fortunate enough to have a piece
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 of string or strong shoelaces or a piece of rope would take  of string or strong shoelaces or a piece of rope would take
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our blankets. We were  issued 2 blankets in those days which we carried with us. our blankets. We were  issued 2 blankets in those days which we carried with us.
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 We'd tie them to the lamps. [cafe noise] Now these cars and I remember they maybe had  3 or 4  We'd tie them to the lamps. [cafe noise] Now these cars and I remember they maybe had  3 or 4
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 on each side of the car on a sort of a hook like bracket.  on each side of the car on a sort of a hook like bracket.
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Well, we tied the two ends of the one end of the blanket tied to a lamp on one side and tied the other end of the blanket  Well, we tied the two ends of the one end of the blanket tied to a lamp on one side and tied the other end of the blanket 
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hook it on the one on the other side. Well, this worked great hook it on the one on the other side. Well, this worked great
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It was nice sleeping about for 3 or 4 hours until the vibration It was nice sleeping about for 3 or 4 hours until the vibration
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 of the train would uh shake the bindings loose and you'd come crashing down  of the train would uh shake the bindings loose and you'd come crashing down
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 on the guys under you. Well there was no way to avoid this except uh  on the guys under you. Well there was no way to avoid this except uh
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you know the floor was solid with with uh human flesh and the air was filled also you know the floor was solid with with uh human flesh and the air was filled also
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 but uh you know you had to be pretty big to sleep up there because if you fell on someone  but uh you know you had to be pretty big to sleep up there because if you fell on someone
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 you had to be able to beat him up otherwise he would beat you up. It uh came to about that. [Niles laughs]  you had to be able to beat him up otherwise he would beat you up. It uh came to about that. [Niles laughs]
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 Well we arrived... the trip....I should tell you about the trip.  Well we arrived... the trip....I should tell you about the trip.
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outside of the comfort factor the scenery was- was absolutely wonderful.  outside of the comfort factor the scenery was- was absolutely wonderful. 
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 Absolutely wonderful scenery. We have a regimental Yearbook  Absolutely wonderful scenery. We have a regimental Yearbook
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that someone in our regiment put out with photographs and with cartoon drawings of this trip. [Niles] Yeah [loud cafe noise] that someone in our regiment put out with photographs and with cartoon drawings of this trip. [Niles] Yeah [loud cafe noise]
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 of the trip. And I swear there's one showing this train going over a tremendous bridge  of the trip. And I swear there's one showing this train going over a tremendous bridge
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bridge about ove bridge about ove
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 maybe 100, 200 feet high over this gorge. And the guys leaning out the windows and  maybe 100, 200 feet high over this gorge. And the guys leaning out the windows and
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 other guys throwing beer bottles out the window and all that. Back in those days nobody cared about pollution  other guys throwing beer bottles out the window and all that. Back in those days nobody cared about pollution
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So, we arrived in Townsville, and I don't remember the railroad station So, we arrived in Townsville, and I don't remember the railroad station
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I don't  remember anything about getting actually arriving in the city in Townsville. I don't  remember anything about getting actually arriving in the city in Townsville.
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 We were shipped out to Oonoonba  We were shipped out to Oonoonba
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I think is the name of the town. They tell me know there is such a place.  I think is the name of the town. They tell me know there is such a place. 
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And the racetrack was on one side the track and we were on the other. Well it's And the racetrack was on one side the track and we were on the other. Well it's
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 the first amusing sight we saw was this vehicle coming day the track towards Townsville and to us   the first amusing sight we saw was this vehicle coming day the track towards Townsville and to us 
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it looked like a truck on rails. [Niles] Right, it looked like a truck on rails. [Niles] Right,
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 open seats from side to side, a roof over it and a driver sitting I think  open seats from side to side, a roof over it and a driver sitting I think
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he had a steering wheel but he had a steering wheel but
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 maybe he didn't because I know I remember thinking at the time, What hell he needs a steering wheel for  maybe he didn't because I know I remember thinking at the time, What hell he needs a steering wheel for
13:09

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he's on tracks he can only go one place. But that was he's on tracks he can only go one place. But that was
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 that was uh an amusing sight. We camped in a little area there right next to the tracks  that was uh an amusing sight. We camped in a little area there right next to the tracks
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It had an ammunition dump up amongst the trees It had an ammunition dump up amongst the trees
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 and uh it wasn't  long before some of our fellows who were animal lovers   and uh it wasn't  long before some of our fellows who were animal lovers 
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found out that you could buy a horse [Niles] Right. [John] And horses found out that you could buy a horse [Niles] Right. [John] And horses
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were cheap. I told you last night there's an American cowboy song about a $10 horse were cheap. I told you last night there's an American cowboy song about a $10 horse
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and a $40 dollar saddle. and a $40 dollar saddle.
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saddle. Well that was back in the old days out west you couldn't buy a horse for $10 anymore. saddle. Well that was back in the old days out west you couldn't buy a horse for $10 anymore.
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Anyplace in the world until we  Anyplace in the world until we 
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 Until we got to Townsville and they found out that's exactly what a horse cost.  Until we got to Townsville and they found out that's exactly what a horse cost.
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 10 dollars for a horse they had a good  10 dollars for a horse they had a good
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 fellow in town who made saddles and strangely enough a saddle cost exactly $40  fellow in town who made saddles and strangely enough a saddle cost exactly $40
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Well, there was the old $10 horse and $40 saddle and I remember some of the fellows Well, there was the old $10 horse and $40 saddle and I remember some of the fellows
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collectors of things had fancy holsters made by this leather craftsman [Niles] Right. [John] And they collectors of things had fancy holsters made by this leather craftsman [Niles] Right. [John] And they
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were pretty, they were works of art. were pretty, they were works of art.
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[Niles] What did the men use the horses for? [John] Well they there was a little corrugated shack [Niles] What did the men use the horses for? [John] Well they there was a little corrugated shack
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 on the plains- on the plains that we were camped and a group had taken this  on the plains- on the plains that we were camped and a group had taken this
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 and turned it into a club for themselves.  and turned it into a club for themselves.
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 And they'd came into town and buy up a little whiskey or a little beer and set up  And they'd came into town and buy up a little whiskey or a little beer and set up
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and set up a bar for themselves, they built a corral out there and they kept the horses and they just and set up a bar for themselves, they built a corral out there and they kept the horses and they just
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rode that's all just because they liked to ride horses. [Niles] For recreation [John] Just liked to ride rode that's all just because they liked to ride horses. [Niles] For recreation [John] Just liked to ride
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 horses. I was never one to do that cause just too much too much work  horses. I was never one to do that cause just too much too much work
14:51

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 I've enjoyed just laying in bed and letting time go by.  We had  I've enjoyed just laying in bed and letting time go by.  We had
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We had our directions at the time so we travelled all through the country. Directions We had our directions at the time so we travelled all through the country. Directions
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 Directions are faded- faded now  Directions are faded- faded now
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 but they used to drive herds of cattle past our camp  but they used to drive herds of cattle past our camp
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 and they are beautiful cattle as I told you. I never seen such beautiful cows and the camp. [Niles] The camp just here?  and they are beautiful cattle as I told you. I never seen such beautiful cows and the camp. [Niles] The camp just here?
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 The camp just to the west of Townsville right by the railroad that used to run across [Niles] Yep hhm  The camp just to the west of Townsville right by the railroad that used to run across [Niles] Yep hhm
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  and run out somewhere but I do know there was a swift   and run out somewhere but I do know there was a swift
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 slaughter house out there, packing plant and an armour packing plant out there which surprised  slaughter house out there, packing plant and an armour packing plant out there which surprised
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 us really because we thought they were American countries? [companies] really but apparently they were international  us really because we thought they were American countries? [companies] really but apparently they were international
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 Obviously they were International. And all this beautiful beef we found out from talking to the people at the plant  Obviously they were International. And all this beautiful beef we found out from talking to the people at the plant
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 was turned into bully beef, put into cans  was turned into bully beef, put into cans
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 and shipped to England for the war effort.  and shipped to England for the war effort.
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Meat wasn't too plentiful in those days, but on one occasion we had an ammunition Meat wasn't too plentiful in those days, but on one occasion we had an ammunition
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truck, a big 2 1/2 ton truck loaded with ammo and truck, a big 2 1/2 ton truck loaded with ammo and
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 the ammunition crew on there transporting and they were going up the road and this herd of cattle  the ammunition crew on there transporting and they were going up the road and this herd of cattle
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 coming in the opposite direction. Well there was one bull. They stopped the truck and waited  coming in the opposite direction. Well there was one bull. They stopped the truck and waited
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and the herd went through on both sides of them. And this one bull started. and the herd went through on both sides of them. And this one bull started.
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The guys were in a playful mood put it in gear and bucked him back. So they had a little contest  The guys were in a playful mood put it in gear and bucked him back. So they had a little contest 
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for about 5 or 10 minutes bucking for about 5 or 10 minutes bucking
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 each other but not too hard. And when the herd passed  each other but not too hard. And when the herd passed
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 this one bull lay down and he stayed there. So what's to be done you know so we uh battery bought the cow?  this one bull lay down and he stayed there. So what's to be done you know so we uh battery bought the cow?
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 We had a cook, a little Polish fellow  We had a cook, a little Polish fellow
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Little short guy. Shoulders like- like- like a lumberjack, waist about 3 inche Little short guy. Shoulders like- like- like a lumberjack, waist about 3 inche
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  inches around I swear and he butchered this cow and we had meat fresh meat and steak    inches around I swear and he butchered this cow and we had meat fresh meat and steak 
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 for about 3 or 4 days  out of that thing and it was very good very good thing. Had an experience  for about 3 or 4 days  out of that thing and it was very good very good thing. Had an experience
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 course the racetrack was was was uh  course the racetrack was was was uh
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Was a place to spend some time? I never gambled but we had a fellow Was a place to spend some time? I never gambled but we had a fellow
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who was a horse player. And you know what a horse player is? [Niles] No [John] It's a guy who bets on the horses. A gambler who was a horse player. And you know what a horse player is? [Niles] No [John] It's a guy who bets on the horses. A gambler
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[cafe noise] [cafe noise]
17:27

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And one day [??] as I said. I was in communication so we had flashlights, the best, we had electricity And one day [??] as I said. I was in communication so we had flashlights, the best, we had electricity
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 flashlights and batteries for operating switchboards and whatnot.  flashlights and batteries for operating switchboards and whatnot.
17:37

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Well, our switchboard our main switchboard was in the 2nd floor of the building at the racetrack Well, our switchboard our main switchboard was in the 2nd floor of the building at the racetrack
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 I operated? and I had been in communication  I operated? and I had been in communication
17:47

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 between there and the camp across the street. Well Stan Threear?  between there and the camp across the street. Well Stan Threear?
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the horse player, came in one day and had a little object in his hand the horse player, came in one day and had a little object in his hand
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and he says 'Can you fix this?' And I said 'What in the world is it?' The thing was maybe 2  1/2 inches long and he says 'Can you fix this?' And I said 'What in the world is it?' The thing was maybe 2  1/2 inches long
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 about an inch and a half wide and maybe  about an inch and a half wide and maybe
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 3 eighths or a half inch thick.  3 eighths or a half inch thick.
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 And it had two contact points on the top  And it had two contact points on the top
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 Ok I'll see. And it and it would fit very nicely in your hand.  Ok I'll see. And it and it would fit very nicely in your hand.
18:28

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He said 'It needs batteries. Never mind what it is. It needs batteries. Can you fix it?'  He said 'It needs batteries. Never mind what it is. It needs batteries. Can you fix it?' 
18:33

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So I looked at it. I ...It had to be some kind of a transformer of some sort so I took this regular flash light So I looked at it. I ...It had to be some kind of a transformer of some sort so I took this regular flash light
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battery what we call it's a single A or whatevers anyway the thicker battery what we call it's a single A or whatevers anyway the thicker
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ones. This thing  would have needed what we call a pencil battery ones. This thing  would have needed what we call a pencil battery
18:49

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and I temporarily and I temporarily
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 I temporarily connected it together just to see what the hell it was what it did and boy that gave quite a jolt.  I temporarily connected it together just to see what the hell it was what it did and boy that gave quite a jolt.
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[Niles] Yeah [John] Oh tremendous jolt for that little thing. I was surprised and then I find out i [Niles] Yeah [John] Oh tremendous jolt for that little thing. I was surprised and then I find out i
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what the hell it was you know. One of the jockeys the jockey would use it and when he got within a certain distance of the- of  what the hell it was you know. One of the jockeys the jockey would use it and when he got within a certain distance of the- of 
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of the- of the of the- of the
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 the finish of the race he would just jolt that horse and the horse would take off like a shot  the finish of the race he would just jolt that horse and the horse would take off like a shot
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And the thing was so And the thing was so
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 so small and if anything happened he could drop it. It was brown he could just drop it it, it disappeared in the dirt  so small and if anything happened he could drop it. It was brown he could just drop it it, it disappeared in the dirt
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But this is not to imply that horse racing in Australia is crooked. [Niles] laughs. This is to imply But this is not to imply that horse racing in Australia is crooked. [Niles] laughs. This is to imply
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 that it is crooked all over the world. Not only in Australia. [Niles laughs] Maybe that's why  that it is crooked all over the world. Not only in Australia. [Niles laughs] Maybe that's why
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 I never bet on the horses. But it's things like that made it pleasant. I didn't socialised much but  I never bet on the horses. But it's things like that made it pleasant. I didn't socialised much but
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I loved Townsville, Townsville I loved Townsville, Townsville
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was absolutely once again it was ah was absolutely once again it was ah
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what what
19:42

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 What I pictured our western frontier towns were say in the 1890s  What I pictured our western frontier towns were say in the 1890s
19:49

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[Niles] Yes [John] and Townsville  was absolutely picture up there and I loved it there but uh. [Niles] Yes [John] and Townsville  was absolutely picture up there and I loved it there but uh.
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It's uh I don't like it as much. It's grown too big. It's nice- it was It's uh I don't like it as much. It's grown too big. It's nice- it was
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it was clean then and it's clean today it's much more attractive I guess to the average person, but I it was clean then and it's clean today it's much more attractive I guess to the average person, but I
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I'm a simple man a country boy myself and I like the small towns. I'm a simple man a country boy myself and I like the small towns.
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towns. I had an experience. The first time I had fish and chips. I was very pleased towns. I had an experience. The first time I had fish and chips. I was very pleased
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 Very pleasant.  Years later people in the States opened up fish and chip shops. I tried them  Very pleasant.  Years later people in the States opened up fish and chip shops. I tried them
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[Niles] Was it good? [John] Somehow never quite as good I don't know what the hell it was, whether it was the years [both laugh] [Niles] Was it good? [John] Somehow never quite as good I don't know what the hell it was, whether it was the years [both laugh]
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 the years that made it a little bit different. [Niles]Might have been. It does doesn't it. [John] Or if [both laugh]  the years that made it a little bit different. [Niles]Might have been. It does doesn't it. [John] Or if [both laugh]
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whether it was that we were used to be so hungry in those days. whether it was that we were used to be so hungry in those days.
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 Another experience we had so I think it had to be an Australian who opened up a hamburger joint, a place that sells  Another experience we had so I think it had to be an Australian who opened up a hamburger joint, a place that sells
20:48

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hamburger. hamburger.
20:49

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Now hamburgers is an American expression. [Niles] Yes [John]To anyone who hears the term Now hamburgers is an American expression. [Niles] Yes [John]To anyone who hears the term
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oh good hamburger would automatically think it's made of ham, well it's not oh good hamburger would automatically think it's made of ham, well it's not
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 it's made of beef. It's a beef patty that's cooked and you put it on a bun and  it's made of beef. It's a beef patty that's cooked and you put it on a bun and
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a slice of onion and some mustard or ketchup on it a slice of onion and some mustard or ketchup on it
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and uh it's a hamburger. [Niles] That's it. [John] Well this guy made and uh it's a hamburger. [Niles] That's it. [John] Well this guy made
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 it his out of ham [Niles] out of ham [laughs] [John] and they weren't as good they weren't as good.   it his out of ham [Niles] out of ham [laughs] [John] and they weren't as good they weren't as good. 
21:14

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both laugh. Refill. Now two other things come to mind immediately. We have a both laugh. Refill. Now two other things come to mind immediately. We have a
21:20

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[cafe noise] [cafe noise]
21:23

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 I told you the story about this fellow used  to come out to camp out to Oonoonba there. A guy came out one day   I told you the story about this fellow used  to come out to camp out to Oonoonba there. A guy came out one day 
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with a horse and cart and on this cart he had this with a horse and cart and on this cart he had this
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 big round oven that he baked meat pies in. Well being soldiers  big round oven that he baked meat pies in. Well being soldiers
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we were always hungry and this guy pulls up in there with the meat pies and they looked delicious, the crust nice and brown. we were always hungry and this guy pulls up in there with the meat pies and they looked delicious, the crust nice and brown.
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 nice and brown. We had had at home we had [Niles] Yep [John] fruit pies about the same size  nice and brown. We had had at home we had [Niles] Yep [John] fruit pies about the same size
21:48

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 and boy we thought these were going be something like that. We bought them out lock stock and barrel  and boy we thought these were going be something like that. We bought them out lock stock and barrel
21:53

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 except for the wagon, horse [Niles] The barrel [John] Well everything else we bought.  except for the wagon, horse [Niles] The barrel [John] Well everything else we bought.
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 Well he took off it's a good thing he did. Then we tasted the  Well he took off it's a good thing he did. Then we tasted the
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 pies and they were pork pies full of fat and we were not fat eaters so there is [background laughter]   pies and they were pork pies full of fat and we were not fat eaters so there is [background laughter] 
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a whole load of stuff we dumped out. [Niles laughs] a whole load of stuff we dumped out. [Niles laughs]
22:10

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Ah There was another unique- unique Ah There was another unique- unique
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 feature that or  practice here...I remember the old honey wagons used to come around  feature that or  practice here...I remember the old honey wagons used to come around
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Maybe I don't know whether I should describe a honey wagon or not. [Niles laughs] Maybe I don't know whether I should describe a honey wagon or not. [Niles laughs]
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You might as well [John] The young people now [Niles] No no. [John] wouldn't know what the heck it was. This fellow came out with a truck  You might as well [John] The young people now [Niles] No no. [John] wouldn't know what the heck it was. This fellow came out with a truck 
22:35

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 a low bed truck that had small compartments  a low bed truck that had small compartments
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Well maybe they would hold about a 5, or 6 or 7 gallon pail in each compartment Well maybe they would hold about a 5, or 6 or 7 gallon pail in each compartment
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 and all the outhouses mostly the outhouses that I could see in town the toilets had these cans  and all the outhouses mostly the outhouses that I could see in town the toilets had these cans
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underneath and it was his job to come out and lift these things and I could not imagine underneath and it was his job to come out and lift these things and I could not imagine
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a more disgusting job to have. He a more disgusting job to have. He
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He wore a what we call a raincoat type of gear over his... the side of his  He wore a what we call a raincoat type of gear over his... the side of his 
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 head and shoulder and he'd lift these pails [Niles] Oh that's wrong? [John] up on his shoulder and  head and shoulder and he'd lift these pails [Niles] Oh that's wrong? [John] up on his shoulder and
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 walk out the damn stuff would be slopping sometimes and stow them in this these seperate  walk out the damn stuff would be slopping sometimes and stow them in this these seperate
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lacks?...on his cart and off he'd go somewhere to dump them off.  lacks?...on his cart and off he'd go somewhere to dump them off. 
23:20

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That- that was something new. We'd never seen something like that. That- that was something new. We'd never seen something like that.
23:26

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[Niles] And the term honey cart was that something you called [John] Honey wagon [Niles] Honey wagon you called that  [Niles] And the term honey cart was that something you called [John] Honey wagon [Niles] Honey wagon you called that 
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 here. Yeah It's an Australian expression. [John] That I think it was. It's what they called it here.  here. Yeah It's an Australian expression. [John] That I think it was. It's what they called it here.
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A honey wagon, yeah. A honey wagon, yeah.
23:42

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Uh yeah honey wagons. Uh yeah honey wagons.
23:49

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Anyway. But those days are gone forever now. And uh gee that's about it. Anyway. But those days are gone forever now. And uh gee that's about it.
23:57

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 Coming into town. Our fellows used to get in quite often because it wasn't that far. We were a mobile outfit.  Coming into town. Our fellows used to get in quite often because it wasn't that far. We were a mobile outfit.
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We never had to walk anyplace [Niles] What was your outfit? [John] 208TH We never had to walk anyplace [Niles] What was your outfit? [John] 208TH
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208th coast artillery anti-aircraft. We were told when I was drafted 208th coast artillery anti-aircraft. We were told when I was drafted
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that we would never have to walk anyplace and it turned out to be true. We never had that we would never have to walk anyplace and it turned out to be true. We never had
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We never had We never had
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what you call a basic training. Never went on long what you call a basic training. Never went on long
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 hikes or anything we were told that we go anywhere we ride in trucks and we did we did very much. It was  hikes or anything we were told that we go anywhere we ride in trucks and we did we did very much. It was
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 it was looking back in retrospect it was it was a very  it was looking back in retrospect it was it was a very
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enlightening experience and I wouldn't enlightening experience and I wouldn't
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 I wouldn't have had it otherwise for the world. I wouldn't have missed it much as I said when I started  I wouldn't have had it otherwise for the world. I wouldn't have missed it much as I said when I started
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 I was mad at all three you know the Army the Japanese and the bloody Germans too. [Niles] Yep  I was mad at all three you know the Army the Japanese and the bloody Germans too. [Niles] Yep
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But uh our outfit was lucky. We lost a few men  But uh our outfit was lucky. We lost a few men 
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through the islands, up through New Guinea. A couple to typhus and a couple to accidents  through the islands, up through New Guinea. A couple to typhus and a couple to accidents 
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 and I don't know whether we lost any to Japanese fire but  and I don't know whether we lost any to Japanese fire but
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But uh as a regiment as a unit we came out pretty well and uh But uh as a regiment as a unit we came out pretty well and uh
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So well, I'm thankful for that. I'm thankful for that. [Niles] The um So well, I'm thankful for that. I'm thankful for that. [Niles] The um
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you're with the artillery? [John] Yep [Niles] Um Yeah did you you're with the artillery? [John] Yep [Niles] Um Yeah did you
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 involved in combat? in this area at all? [John]  We weren't we weren't fighting soldiers I.  involved in combat? in this area at all? [John]  We weren't we weren't fighting soldiers I.
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 I always thought you start shooting at somebody you are going to hurt somebody [Niles] That's right. [John] So I  I always thought you start shooting at somebody you are going to hurt somebody [Niles] That's right. [John] So I
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[laughs] I was glad I was not in infantry. So thank my lucky stars every day? for that. Oh we we  [laughs] I was glad I was not in infantry. So thank my lucky stars every day? for that. Oh we we 
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 ran wire.  We our communication crew got out to Magnetic  ran wire.  We our communication crew got out to Magnetic
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Island for a week or two. I forget how long it was. We had to run telephone [cafe noise] Island for a week or two. I forget how long it was. We had to run telephone [cafe noise]
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 telephone wires all over the bloody Island. We had guns or searchlights or something out there. [Niles] hhm  telephone wires all over the bloody Island. We had guns or searchlights or something out there. [Niles] hhm
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[cafe noise] [Niles] ...get there? [cafe noise] [Niles] ...get there?
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 I don't even remember how the hell we got across the water. I have no memory. I know you have  I don't even remember how the hell we got across the water. I have no memory. I know you have
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to take to take to take a boat. I have no memory of a boat getting out there and coming back to take to take to take a boat. I have no memory of a boat getting out there and coming back
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I have this one..I don't know where I have this one..I don't know where
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 we ran wire. I have no memory. I have the memory of driving past  we ran wire. I have no memory. I have the memory of driving past
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 this pineapple plantation. [Niles] Hhm [John] It was late in the afternoon  this pineapple plantation. [Niles] Hhm [John] It was late in the afternoon
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 and we got to Horseshoe Bay and there was a cottage facing the water maybe oh  and we got to Horseshoe Bay and there was a cottage facing the water maybe oh
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 3, 4, 500 feet up the hill facing..and that was the most beautiful little  3, 4, 500 feet up the hill facing..and that was the most beautiful little
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 tropical paradise that I've ever seen. Movies and all...Hedy Lamarr I know?  tropical paradise that I've ever seen. Movies and all...Hedy Lamarr I know?
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Well Bob Reed, a friend of mine. We decided we were going to have some pineapple Well Bob Reed, a friend of mine. We decided we were going to have some pineapple
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for lunch?. So we sneaked off got into the pineapple patch and we got a few pineapples and brought them back. [laughs] [Niles] Right. [laughs] for lunch?. So we sneaked off got into the pineapple patch and we got a few pineapples and brought them back. [laughs] [Niles] Right. [laughs]
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 We had a fire going. Sitting around the fire  We had a fire going. Sitting around the fire
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 And then out of the darkness this great big Australian comes out. This guy  And then out of the darkness this great big Australian comes out. This guy
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8 feet tall? and about 3 axe handles uh across the shoulders.  8 feet tall? and about 3 axe handles uh across the shoulders. 
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 He had this great beastie of a of a dog with him. He called it a dog. Looked like it was half lion to me  He had this great beastie of a of a dog with him. He called it a dog. Looked like it was half lion to me
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at the time. at the time.
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[laughs] Well we thought we were going to be taken over that time. We thought we'd had it. But the guy surprised [laughs] Well we thought we were going to be taken over that time. We thought we'd had it. But the guy surprised
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us. To my knowledge he said 'hell you didn't have to steal these pineapples off the tree. Just help yourself. Don't sneak around. us. To my knowledge he said 'hell you didn't have to steal these pineapples off the tree. Just help yourself. Don't sneak around.
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around. [both laugh] around. [both laugh]
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 Very nice. [Niles] Great. [John]The people were wonderful. I enjoyed the people tremendously.  Very nice. [Niles] Great. [John]The people were wonderful. I enjoyed the people tremendously.
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 But uh I guess like every other group there are a few buggers around but most of  But uh I guess like every other group there are a few buggers around but most of
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 the people 98 percent are swell . [Niles] Yeah [John]The other 2 percent are buggers. Let them shift for themselves.  the people 98 percent are swell . [Niles] Yeah [John]The other 2 percent are buggers. Let them shift for themselves.
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[John laughs]Who cares. [Niles] Just coming back to your communications work um [John laughs]Who cares. [Niles] Just coming back to your communications work um
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 what sort of things did you do while you were based here?  what sort of things did you do while you were based here?
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 Headquarters 1st Battalion's responsibility was to run telephone wire. We were to survey  Headquarters 1st Battalion's responsibility was to run telephone wire. We were to survey
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 the base lines for orienting the anti-aircraft guns and the search lights. So they  the base lines for orienting the anti-aircraft guns and the search lights. So they
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point to the same place  point to the same place 
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at the same time or shoot the same place at the same time. [Niles] Right yeah. [John]That was operation   at the same time or shoot the same place at the same time. [Niles] Right yeah. [John]That was operation  
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?  section. Communications section was to was to run wires ?  section. Communications section was to was to run wires
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 from the 1st Battalion Headquarters to each of the gun batteries and each of the searchlight batteries.  from the 1st Battalion Headquarters to each of the gun batteries and each of the searchlight batteries.
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 And set up a central switchboard. So we got to travel the  And set up a central switchboard. So we got to travel the
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out back not the out back but in the outskirts of Townsville? out back not the out back but in the outskirts of Townsville?
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[Stranger]You guys taking all these papers are you. [John] No no. [Niles] Not the papers sorry. [Stranger]You guys taking all these papers are you. [John] No no. [Niles] Not the papers sorry.
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 So uh we got to travel the countryside more than most people I think. Although there weren't too many troops. I  So uh we got to travel the countryside more than most people I think. Although there weren't too many troops. I
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don't remember any troops except Air Corps and uh don't remember any troops except Air Corps and uh
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 and uh our anti -aircraft regiment. I don't remember any  and uh our anti -aircraft regiment. I don't remember any
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but you can't go by me, because I didn't get out of camp too much except once in awhile I came in for a movie. The movie [Niles agrees] but you can't go by me, because I didn't get out of camp too much except once in awhile I came in for a movie. The movie [Niles agrees]
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I I enjoyed your movies. I remember the one I I enjoyed your movies. I remember the one
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 movie building is on the left hand of the Street going in some direction   movie building is on the left hand of the Street going in some direction 
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 anyway  from where we came in. There was the hotel pub on the right hand  anyway  from where we came in. There was the hotel pub on the right hand
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 side. That building is still here I see. But it was a big disappointment because drinking hours  side. That building is still here I see. But it was a big disappointment because drinking hours
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were between something like uh were between something like uh
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10 and 11 and 1 and 2. Some awkward 10 and 11 and 1 and 2. Some awkward
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 awkward hours that uh you know a man wants a drink he's got to drink when he wants to drink not that  awkward hours that uh you know a man wants a drink he's got to drink when he wants to drink not that
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 when someone tells him he has certain hours. [Niles] hhm.   when someone tells him he has certain hours. [Niles] hhm. 
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 But uh down a few buildings was a theatre. I remember the balcony  But uh down a few buildings was a theatre. I remember the balcony
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 was open. It was a wooden building and you could sit there and look out [Niles] Yeah. [John] and the roof over and  was open. It was a wooden building and you could sit there and look out [Niles] Yeah. [John] and the roof over and
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 there was a movie then further down the Street I think it was was an outdoor movie  there was a movie then further down the Street I think it was was an outdoor movie
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with the canvas back chairs and they had a canvas  with the canvas back chairs and they had a canvas 
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a canvas a canvas
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[cafe noise] across the top, in case it rained. Somehow they [cafe noise] across the top, in case it rained. Somehow they
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 somehow they had like a curtain over the top of the audience and this would protect them from the rain  somehow they had like a curtain over the top of the audience and this would protect them from the rain
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but that was delightful to be out and watching a movie. I think that was the first [Niles agrees] but that was delightful to be out and watching a movie. I think that was the first [Niles agrees]
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in my experience. When I got home after the war in my experience. When I got home after the war
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 they had already...they were a big thing back home but this was better  they had already...they were a big thing back home but this was better
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than sitting in a car. [Nigel agrees] than sitting in a car. [Nigel agrees]
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Yeah, that's about uh it from here. I don't I forget now. It seems we  Yeah, that's about uh it from here. I don't I forget now. It seems we 
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were here a long time? but if I check my records my discharge papers. Maybe 4 5- 6 months were here a long time? but if I check my records my discharge papers. Maybe 4 5- 6 months
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at the most. [Niles] So you went up to? [John] and then we moved up to Moresby Port Moresby. [Niles] Right. And at the most. [Niles] So you went up to? [John] and then we moved up to Moresby Port Moresby. [Niles] Right. And
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from there you eventually worked your way home. [John] From there we went to uh units of our from there you eventually worked your way home. [John] From there we went to uh units of our
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up to went to Milne Bay and up that side of the Coast and different places where the- up to went to Milne Bay and up that side of the Coast and different places where the-
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and up that side of the coast different places where the. and up that side of the coast different places where the.