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[Noise] [Noise]
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My name is Rob My name is Rob
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Manshine 2016 on the 1st. Manshine 2016 on the 1st.
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of May. of May.
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[Rob] And I'm speaking with Peter Kroll. [Peter] You are. [Rob] And I'm speaking with Peter Kroll. [Peter] You are.
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And I want to ask you, Peter, And I want to ask you, Peter,
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about your childhood, about the formative years, about your childhood, about the formative years,
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and how that might...uh...have and how that might...uh...have
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Found its way to you in adulthood. How it impacted on you as an adult. Found its way to you in adulthood. How it impacted on you as an adult.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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It's interesting to It's interesting to
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even pay attention even pay attention
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to my childhood an'...I've lost a lot of my childhood due to...um... to my childhood an'...I've lost a lot of my childhood due to...um...
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various misadventures with various misadventures with
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barbiturates which were prescribed for various ailments I had back in those days, but it was...um... barbiturates which were prescribed for various ailments I had back in those days, but it was...um...
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Do I start again? [Rob] Nup, no. [Peter] Okay, so...um... Do I start again? [Rob] Nup, no. [Peter] Okay, so...um...
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It was...it was a....I can't recognise the world that I lived in -looking at the world that I live in now. It's so far away - so distant, so unlike this. It was...it was a....I can't recognise the world that I lived in -looking at the world that I live in now. It's so far away - so distant, so unlike this.
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Where I grew up in Bagara was Where I grew up in Bagara was
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very much like a small country town, apart from the fact that it had the ocean at its doorstep. very much like a small country town, apart from the fact that it had the ocean at its doorstep.
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And, And,
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I was born in the year that the Second World War ended. I'm not even sure that's a thing these days, The Second World War - does anyone know about that? I was born in the year that the Second World War ended. I'm not even sure that's a thing these days, The Second World War - does anyone know about that?
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What I do know about that is that...uh... What I do know about that is that...uh...
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it was perceived as a different... it was perceived as a different...
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a different- very much a different world then, in fact, uh, a different- very much a different world then, in fact, uh,
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Today there's a lot of talk the patriarchy. My direct experience is, that in those days. Today there's a lot of talk the patriarchy. My direct experience is, that in those days.
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I did not see the men. I did not see the men.
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My father had just come back from My father had just come back from
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what I assume to be the horrors of a...the war in New Guinea, what I assume to be the horrors of a...the war in New Guinea,
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but he never spoke of it. but he never spoke of it.
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And he came back...uh...from the war. I was born. And he came back...uh...from the war. I was born.
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And so, And so,
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even though he was there then, and he had a hand in my birth, he didn't have much of a hand in my early years. He was uh... even though he was there then, and he had a hand in my birth, he didn't have much of a hand in my early years. He was uh...
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Like most of the blokes that I knew, they were either big drinkers or they were ah...or they were quiet. Like most of the blokes that I knew, they were either big drinkers or they were ah...or they were quiet.
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Very few...very few men engaging with Very few...very few men engaging with
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the young children - especially the young boys. the young children - especially the young boys.
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Really, in those days, Really, in those days,
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we raised ourselves. we raised ourselves.
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When we weren't When we weren't
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at home, we were out in mobs, at home, we were out in mobs,
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Just around the neighbourhood or over in the reserve Just around the neighbourhood or over in the reserve
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doing whatever it is doing whatever it is
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that we felt to do. that we felt to do.
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And ah... And ah...
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nothing particular predacious, nothing- nothing particular predacious, nothing-
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nothing particularly nothing particularly
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dangerous - dangerous -
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apart from throwing rocks at snakes and that sort of thing. apart from throwing rocks at snakes and that sort of thing.
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But, But,
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fathers were not particularly in the picture. My father... fathers were not particularly in the picture. My father...
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to me, my father was to me, my father was
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really... really...
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"Wait 'til your father gets home". "Wait 'til your father gets home".
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That's who he was. That's who he was.
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Um... Um...
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Very little touch. Very little touch.
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Never once told me that I mattered to him. Never once told me that I mattered to him.
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Disowned me once when I Disowned me once when I
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came home came home
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crying from being crying from being
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bashed by bashed by
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another bloke. another bloke.
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I remember...the words are burned into my brain: "If you let him beat you, you're no son of mine". I remember...the words are burned into my brain: "If you let him beat you, you're no son of mine".
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And a... And a...
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I feel tears prickling my eyes- er, when I say those words. I feel tears prickling my eyes- er, when I say those words.
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And part of that, I think, is the knowledge that, although I didn't say those words to my son, And part of that, I think, is the knowledge that, although I didn't say those words to my son,
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I said...er...things that carry an echo of that. I said...er...things that carry an echo of that.
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But really, there were no...there were no fathers. But really, there were no...there were no fathers.
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They...they were working. Most of them They...they were working. Most of them
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Were working. Were working.
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Come home, Come home,
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do what they had to do. do what they had to do.
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And then, And then,
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disappear where they could. They went to the pub or disappear where they could. They went to the pub or
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Fishing or something Dad would, my dad might disappear down to. Fishing or something Dad would, my dad might disappear down to.
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The- the Goulians, or the Finches that he had in a cage down the back. The- the Goulians, or the Finches that he had in a cage down the back.
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But, But,
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my early years were of remote men - and I'm not surprised my early years were of remote men - and I'm not surprised
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'cause it's kind of hard, I imagine - not that I've experienced it. I think it's kind of hard to come back from a war, 'cause it's kind of hard, I imagine - not that I've experienced it. I think it's kind of hard to come back from a war,
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and, and,
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ah ah
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pick up a shovel. pick up a shovel.
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Yeah. [Rob] Mm. Yeah. [Rob] Mm.
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Teachers would- all female, Teachers would- all female,
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in the early years...very strict. in the early years...very strict.
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Very uh... Very uh...
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Uh, very little understanding of, uh, little boys. Uh, very little understanding of, uh, little boys.
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Lots of discipline. Not a lot of uh... Lots of discipline. Not a lot of uh...
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not a lot of physical abuse, but plenty of discipline, and plenty of, not a lot of physical abuse, but plenty of discipline, and plenty of,
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"Don't speak out of turn". "Don't speak out of turn".
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[Rob] Mmm. [Peter] Yeah...it was a pretty arid sort of life, but the... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] Yeah...it was a pretty arid sort of life, but the...
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On the other hand, I gotta say that- uh, that my family were, uh- On the other hand, I gotta say that- uh, that my family were, uh-
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solid, solid,
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solid - very solid. There was no question solid - very solid. There was no question
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that um... that um...
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that the family that the family
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was the first consideration - always the first consideration. was the first consideration - always the first consideration.
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(Pensive) Yeah. (Pensive) Yeah.
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[Rob] Hmm. [Rob] Hmm.
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[Peter] How does that compare to your life, in the early years? [Rob] Hmm...not much comparison (laughs). [Peter] Right. [Peter] How does that compare to your life, in the early years? [Rob] Hmm...not much comparison (laughs). [Peter] Right.
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Um...for me...ah...I was born in Tenterfield and my father had a farm, 'Stanthorpe'. And as I recall that was about 600 acres. Um...for me...ah...I was born in Tenterfield and my father had a farm, 'Stanthorpe'. And as I recall that was about 600 acres.
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Mixed, mixed farm, and um some of my earliest memories are of exploring the place, and being up on this huge granite boulder, and my father and my uncles, um, Mixed, mixed farm, and um some of my earliest memories are of exploring the place, and being up on this huge granite boulder, and my father and my uncles, um,
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taking potshots at Roos and- taking potshots at Roos and-
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And dogs in the orchard and stuff like that. And, um- And dogs in the orchard and stuff like that. And, um-
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and aaah... and aaah...
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sailing a little er...home-made sailboat, dad must have made for me in the pond, and the re- refrigeration pools at the cold store on the farm. sailing a little er...home-made sailboat, dad must have made for me in the pond, and the re- refrigeration pools at the cold store on the farm.
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And um.... And um....
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the house that was in construction; getting chased by a rooster. the house that was in construction; getting chased by a rooster.
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And uh losing my big toe to a machine in the, in the fruit shed that was used to sort fruit. Climbing up into that machine was my job to push the fruit down onto the conveyor belt. Somehow or other my foot got caught in a chain and pulled the toe clean off, of the knuckle and I remember my dad uh dropping the cases of fruit. They were timber boxes that for the fruit. He was carrying them into the cold store and I screamed and. And uh losing my big toe to a machine in the, in the fruit shed that was used to sort fruit. Climbing up into that machine was my job to push the fruit down onto the conveyor belt. Somehow or other my foot got caught in a chain and pulled the toe clean off, of the knuckle and I remember my dad uh dropping the cases of fruit. They were timber boxes that for the fruit. He was carrying them into the cold store and I screamed and.
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He dropped the fruit, went everywhere and he came running over and pulled me out of the machine before I could get any more of me. He dropped the fruit, went everywhere and he came running over and pulled me out of the machine before I could get any more of me.
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And uh... And uh...
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ah yeah...mad rush to the hospital and him losing control comin' over the railway at Ballindine and ah yeah...mad rush to the hospital and him losing control comin' over the railway at Ballindine and
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Spinning up a gravel road sort of thing, you know, and gathering it all up. Spinning up a gravel road sort of thing, you know, and gathering it all up.
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Yeah...so... Yeah...so...
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But, um- But, um-
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I now know that Dad went tried organic farming back then. Really. So I was born in '56. I now know that Dad went tried organic farming back then. Really. So I was born in '56.
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And this was the early '60s. This was before organics, going organic was even considered to be a, a need, uh and so he was going solo. And this was the early '60s. This was before organics, going organic was even considered to be a, a need, uh and so he was going solo.
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With that...and the farm got overrun with pests, and it over- the pests overran his neighbours and...um...they had to up their chemicals With that...and the farm got overrun with pests, and it over- the pests overran his neighbours and...um...they had to up their chemicals
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to combat it, and- uh, after three seasons, 3 failed seasons trying to go organic, he- he lost the farm. He had to- to combat it, and- uh, after three seasons, 3 failed seasons trying to go organic, he- he lost the farm. He had to-
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to lose it. And around that time, he became involved in a church, er- to lose it. And around that time, he became involved in a church, er-
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And that- uh, precipitated our move to And that- uh, precipitated our move to
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Brisbane... Brisbane...
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to be closer to a church area. to be closer to a church area.
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So, we moved off the farm. So, we moved off the farm.
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And I can remember, I had gone from year's- uh, one, And I can remember, I had gone from year's- uh, one,
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and maybe two, and maybe two,
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in a one-room in a one-room
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Country schoolhouse with about 30, 30 kids. Country schoolhouse with about 30, 30 kids.
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About eight classes combined into one room. About eight classes combined into one room.
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Went to this big school that...I don't know what the numbers were...but ah, it was huge. Went to this big school that...I don't know what the numbers were...but ah, it was huge.
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It would have been twenty times the size of- of the school I'd come from. It would have been twenty times the size of- of the school I'd come from.
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And the whole life was turned upside down. We ended up in a in a one room apartment. No furniture, We were sleeping on the floor. And the whole life was turned upside down. We ended up in a in a one room apartment. No furniture, We were sleeping on the floor.
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I had three or four siblings at that stage and they ended up being six of us in total and uh [Hamish] still in the apartment? [Peter] No, no, no. Eventually moved to the house and so on, but things must have been really, really tough. I had three or four siblings at that stage and they ended up being six of us in total and uh [Hamish] still in the apartment? [Peter] No, no, no. Eventually moved to the house and so on, but things must have been really, really tough.
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But we'd essentially move closer to the church area where there was an established church, and um... But we'd essentially move closer to the church area where there was an established church, and um...
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the Church became our life. the Church became our life.
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I've known that since I was about 5 or 6 years old. I've known that since I was about 5 or 6 years old.
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It's all I've known. It's all I've known.
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And...the church was very much a disciplinarian...based. And...the church was very much a disciplinarian...based.
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Child-rearing was based on the scripture, like, um, Child-rearing was based on the scripture, like, um,
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Don't know where it is in the Good Book, but foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, and the rod of correction will drive it far from him. [Hamish] So not a lot of suffer the little children to come unto me [Peter] no. Don't know where it is in the Good Book, but foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, and the rod of correction will drive it far from him. [Hamish] So not a lot of suffer the little children to come unto me [Peter] no.
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none of that. none of that.
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So uh , I was the subject of considerable. So uh , I was the subject of considerable.
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beltings, um, beltings, um,
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Remember when I did my first common ground course, the facilitator laid out all these trinkets and toys on the floor and we were asked to scan all these objects. If one jumps out out and pick it up and when it comes out, turn to speak, to speak to what it is about that object. And I picked up a little cricket bat. Remember when I did my first common ground course, the facilitator laid out all these trinkets and toys on the floor and we were asked to scan all these objects. If one jumps out out and pick it up and when it comes out, turn to speak, to speak to what it is about that object. And I picked up a little cricket bat.
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And at first, I was just sort of rolling it around in my hands and remembering playing cricket at the backyard at Nana's in Tenterfield and, uh, And at first, I was just sort of rolling it around in my hands and remembering playing cricket at the backyard at Nana's in Tenterfield and, uh,
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And then it dawned on me that that was exactly what my old man used to lay into me with. And then it dawned on me that that was exactly what my old man used to lay into me with.
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And...um...he broke at least two of them, And...um...he broke at least two of them,
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and he went out and had a couple of hardwood panels made...paddles made, and he went out and had a couple of hardwood panels made...paddles made,
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And he used them on me from then on. And you know, my brothers and sisters were copping it as well. And he used them on me from then on. And you know, my brothers and sisters were copping it as well.
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And I can remember at least one occasion, where he got so- his arms got too tired, spanking me because he would spank me until he felt I was repentant. And I can remember at least one occasion, where he got so- his arms got too tired, spanking me because he would spank me until he felt I was repentant.
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And it was...you know...trousers down, over my knee, and belt me on the bare arse and er... And it was...you know...trousers down, over my knee, and belt me on the bare arse and er...
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[Rob] ...and I pretty soon worked out that the the sooner I got repentant, the better off I was [laugh]...But I worked out that it didn't pay to be repentant too quickly either, because he didn't believe me. [Peter] Right. [Rob] ...And there was a stage where I would hold out um...and: "You won't get me, I won't break down", you know? And I'm pretty soon realised that was probably the time when he got so tired he had to take a break. Told me, "I'm coming back; I just need to rest". [Rob] ...and I pretty soon worked out that the the sooner I got repentant, the better off I was [laugh]...But I worked out that it didn't pay to be repentant too quickly either, because he didn't believe me. [Peter] Right. [Rob] ...And there was a stage where I would hold out um...and: "You won't get me, I won't break down", you know? And I'm pretty soon realised that was probably the time when he got so tired he had to take a break. Told me, "I'm coming back; I just need to rest".
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When he came back and started again, I thought, "This is not...", I can remember the sense of "...this is not smart". [Laughs] [Peter] Hmm. [Rob] I really need to give him what he wants...and um...so I did. When he came back and started again, I thought, "This is not...", I can remember the sense of "...this is not smart". [Laughs] [Peter] Hmm. [Rob] I really need to give him what he wants...and um...so I did.
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That framed me ah... That framed me ah...
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We had a moment in a recent camp, Rite of Passage camp, where there was a young fellow who, We had a moment in a recent camp, Rite of Passage camp, where there was a young fellow who,
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when asked what it was he wanted to let go of in his boyish behaviour, he came up with, "I wanna let go of my boyish silliness." when asked what it was he wanted to let go of in his boyish behaviour, he came up with, "I wanna let go of my boyish silliness."
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And um... And um...
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that was a powerful moment for me, because in that moment, I remembered that's what my ol' man was trying to belt out of me... that was a powerful moment for me, because in that moment, I remembered that's what my ol' man was trying to belt out of me...
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...my foolishness. ...my foolishness.
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I love to make people laugh, and I love to kid around, and- and I guess some of that was boyish silliness. I love to make people laugh, and I love to kid around, and- and I guess some of that was boyish silliness.
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But, the pivotal moment at that camp was this young fella chose it for himself, [Rob] Hm. [Peter] and he wasn't prompted. And it wasn't belted out of him. He saw the need to let it go himself. But, the pivotal moment at that camp was this young fella chose it for himself, [Rob] Hm. [Peter] and he wasn't prompted. And it wasn't belted out of him. He saw the need to let it go himself.
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But for me... But for me...
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my old man tried to belt it out of me. my old man tried to belt it out of me.
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And I've realised now...ah...that that impacts on my adult life. And I've realised now...ah...that that impacts on my adult life.
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At a time, a couple of weeks ago, where Robbie and I were out at a club, my partner and I were out at a club and people are up and dancing and music's fantastic; it's moving me... At a time, a couple of weeks ago, where Robbie and I were out at a club, my partner and I were out at a club and people are up and dancing and music's fantastic; it's moving me...
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Robyn's up and dancing...ah...everyone's dancing, and I'm not. Robyn's up and dancing...ah...everyone's dancing, and I'm not.
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And I got home and I'm thinking, "Why on earth didn't I get up? Why wouldn't I ?", you know...and it dawned on me that And I got home and I'm thinking, "Why on earth didn't I get up? Why wouldn't I ?", you know...and it dawned on me that
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just that level of letting go, I- I've, you know, I've- I'm just having fun for fun's sake just that level of letting go, I- I've, you know, I've- I'm just having fun for fun's sake
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was a challenge for me. [Peter] Er... [Rob] Since I've seen that I can, I can work on it a bit. I've actually stood up and wriggled my hips a bit. So since... [Peter] Yes...So your father was obviously the head of the household. was a challenge for me. [Peter] Er... [Rob] Since I've seen that I can, I can work on it a bit. I've actually stood up and wriggled my hips a bit. So since... [Peter] Yes...So your father was obviously the head of the household.
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[Peter] Yeah. [Peter] Yeah.
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Very much the- the patriarchal model, the patriarchal model. [Peter] It's interesting, because my- my experience of my little country area, Bergara, was that, uh, the power base was strongly matriarchal Very much the- the patriarchal model, the patriarchal model. [Peter] It's interesting, because my- my experience of my little country area, Bergara, was that, uh, the power base was strongly matriarchal
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...and...and that the men were ...and...and that the men were
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uh... uh...
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What they did and who they associated with was very strongly controlled by the wives. It was an interesting thing. But then I would go and stay on my uncle's farm up at Avondale, What they did and who they associated with was very strongly controlled by the wives. It was an interesting thing. But then I would go and stay on my uncle's farm up at Avondale,
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[Peter] and and there was no doubt at all that he was boss cocky. [Rob] Hmm. [Peter] And so [Peter] and and there was no doubt at all that he was boss cocky. [Rob] Hmm. [Peter] And so
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but that's a totally, totally different experience. but that's a totally, totally different experience.
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And the world revolved around And the world revolved around
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the, uh, needs of the farm - not so much his needs. [Rob] Hmm. [Peter] But everybody toed the line the, uh, needs of the farm - not so much his needs. [Rob] Hmm. [Peter] But everybody toed the line
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and he was, uh-, a very strict disciplinarian. and he was, uh-, a very strict disciplinarian.
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The biggest thing - although this is a bit off topic, whatever the topic is - but the biggest thing that I remember... The biggest thing - although this is a bit off topic, whatever the topic is - but the biggest thing that I remember...
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I loved going to the farm in my holidays, but I remember that, uh- one- one year I was there, I- [birds in the background] there was a calf - a newborn calf and I really liked it, and they- they- I loved going to the farm in my holidays, but I remember that, uh- one- one year I was there, I- [birds in the background] there was a calf - a newborn calf and I really liked it, and they- they-
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they christened it "Peter", and said, "That's your calf". they christened it "Peter", and said, "That's your calf".
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And...so I went home again all And...so I went home again all
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full of the love of my calf, and then full of the love of my calf, and then
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next year when I came back to the farm, next year when I came back to the farm,
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I couldn't find the calf and we were sitting at the table...and, and ah...this is true...we was sitting at the table and I said, "Where, where's Peter?" And they said, "You're eating him". I couldn't find the calf and we were sitting at the table...and, and ah...this is true...we was sitting at the table and I said, "Where, where's Peter?" And they said, "You're eating him".
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[Rob] Ah ha...oh dear, oh dear. [Peter] Yeah... [Rob] How did that impact on you? [Peter] It really er... [Rob] What age were you there? [Peter] I would have been eight. [Rob] Eight...wow. [Rob] Ah ha...oh dear, oh dear. [Peter] Yeah... [Rob] How did that impact on you? [Peter] It really er... [Rob] What age were you there? [Peter] I would have been eight. [Rob] Eight...wow.
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It was...it was hard to deal with... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...it was very hard to deal with. It was...it was hard to deal with... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...it was very hard to deal with.
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[Peter] Didn't turn you into an instant vegetarian? [Peter] Didn't turn you into an instant vegetarian?
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No...no...well...that wasn't the option on the farm... [Rob] Right. [Peter] ...'cause everything came from everything came from the beast. No...no...well...that wasn't the option on the farm... [Rob] Right. [Peter] ...'cause everything came from everything came from the beast.
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[Peter] I remember, I created two vegetarians, [Peter] I remember, I created two vegetarians,
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in my daughters- um, at the beheading of a rooster. [Peter] Right. [Rob] (Chuckle) But- [Rob] That'll do it. [Peter] they've been vegetarian ever since. in my daughters- um, at the beheading of a rooster. [Peter] Right. [Rob] (Chuckle) But- [Rob] That'll do it. [Peter] they've been vegetarian ever since.
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[Rob] So I was- I was just- er, I was interested in this this idea of- of how [Rob] So I was- I was just- er, I was interested in this this idea of- of how
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how the perceptions really differed because there's ah there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that...that the women ruled the roost... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...and a...and certainly my father would come home and...and how the perceptions really differed because there's ah there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that...that the women ruled the roost... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...and a...and certainly my father would come home and...and
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he'd hand over the pay packet and he'd get a small amount of money to spend on booze, which was what he did spend it on - or fishing gear or something. he'd hand over the pay packet and he'd get a small amount of money to spend on booze, which was what he did spend it on - or fishing gear or something.
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ta... ta...
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yeah. [Rob] Amazing, isn't it? [Peter] But it's different...obviously different in your story. [Rob] Yeah...er... yeah. [Rob] Amazing, isn't it? [Peter] But it's different...obviously different in your story. [Rob] Yeah...er...
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Well... Well...
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mum left dad after 52 years. [Peter] Right? [Rob] They'd been together for 52 years. She finally struck out on her own... [Peter] Right. [Rob]...came and lived with me. We were at Moore Park, north of Bundaberg. [Peter] I know Moore Park well. [Rob] I lived there then and...uh...mum lived with me for three months...and that's where I first got to know her. mum left dad after 52 years. [Peter] Right? [Rob] They'd been together for 52 years. She finally struck out on her own... [Peter] Right. [Rob]...came and lived with me. We were at Moore Park, north of Bundaberg. [Peter] I know Moore Park well. [Rob] I lived there then and...uh...mum lived with me for three months...and that's where I first got to know her.
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And she's always been in his shadow... [Peter] Right. [Rob] ...and um... And she's always been in his shadow... [Peter] Right. [Rob] ...and um...
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the old man said back then, "I knew she was gonna be trouble" (laughs)... the old man said back then, "I knew she was gonna be trouble" (laughs)...
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...when she (continues laughing) refused to say, "to love and obey" in the wedding vows. [Peter] Oh right. [Rob] Hah...52 years, she was giving... [Peter] That's a giveaway. [Rob] Dear oh dear. ...when she (continues laughing) refused to say, "to love and obey" in the wedding vows. [Peter] Oh right. [Rob] Hah...52 years, she was giving... [Peter] That's a giveaway. [Rob] Dear oh dear.
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[Rob] I was, uh, I- I actually I think I had the illusion that- uh, that everything was fine in my [Rob] I was, uh, I- I actually I think I had the illusion that- uh, that everything was fine in my
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in my appearance marriage but... in my appearance marriage but...
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So dad went to the war...ah I won't go into his story...but he had so many misfortunes and er So dad went to the war...ah I won't go into his story...but he had so many misfortunes and er
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just just
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things, that things...that happened, like the house burning down with the new car underneath it and no insurance, and... things, that things...that happened, like the house burning down with the new car underneath it and no insurance, and...
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and er... and er...
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...and then having to take a job that didn't pay very well and that ...and then having to take a job that didn't pay very well and that
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meant that he was away from home for ages...I- I went out with him once. His job at that time was as a linesman...he would er park....he would drive to a some remote er powerline out somewhere meant that he was away from home for ages...I- I went out with him once. His job at that time was as a linesman...he would er park....he would drive to a some remote er powerline out somewhere
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lock up the truck, pick up his can of creosote and his axe, and his lunch bag, lock up the truck, pick up his can of creosote and his axe, and his lunch bag,
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then he'd start to walk that line. then he'd start to walk that line.
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And as he walked the line, he'd be cutting down- uh, trees too, that were interfering with the powerlines, or poisoning them, and- or, creosoting- also creosoting, uh, the bottoms of the- er, the pylons to stop any white ants or any other- [Peter] Mmm. [Rob] I think it was- that was bloody hard work. I was a young bloke and I found it very hard to keep up with him. He was a bit of a dynamo. [Peter] Hm. And as he walked the line, he'd be cutting down- uh, trees too, that were interfering with the powerlines, or poisoning them, and- or, creosoting- also creosoting, uh, the bottoms of the- er, the pylons to stop any white ants or any other- [Peter] Mmm. [Rob] I think it was- that was bloody hard work. I was a young bloke and I found it very hard to keep up with him. He was a bit of a dynamo. [Peter] Hm.
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My...my er dad got into mushroom farming... [Peter] Oh really? [Rob] ...well because it was the most organic crop he could grow and make money from really...um... My...my er dad got into mushroom farming... [Peter] Oh really? [Rob] ...well because it was the most organic crop he could grow and make money from really...um...
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the least amount of pesticides and all that sort of thing. [Peter] Oh. [Rob] But um...yeah...so between the church and the mushroom farm, there wasn't a whole lot else (laughs). the least amount of pesticides and all that sort of thing. [Peter] Oh. [Rob] But um...yeah...so between the church and the mushroom farm, there wasn't a whole lot else (laughs).
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[Rob] Yeah...tsk. [Peter] So you didn't er...you y-? ...I- I know you're...I know part of your history. I know that you're a very good artist. So how did you, you know, how does a...how does an artist come out of a mushroom farm? [Rob] Yeah...tsk. [Peter] So you didn't er...you y-? ...I- I know you're...I know part of your history. I know that you're a very good artist. So how did you, you know, how does a...how does an artist come out of a mushroom farm?
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Well...just um...spent hours drawing... Well...just um...spent hours drawing...
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you know...well they were...my mom and dad were picking mushrooms or whatever. you know...well they were...my mom and dad were picking mushrooms or whatever.
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Won an art competition as...as a teenager - I think it was probably 13... [Peter] Right. [Rob] ...with a pencil sketch of, of um Jose Feliciano. [Peter] Really? [Rob] Yeah...um...courier mail sketch. That's when I knew I had some talent that that was the first real confirmation I had of any talent. [Peter] Did you title it, "Light my Fire"? Won an art competition as...as a teenager - I think it was probably 13... [Peter] Right. [Rob] ...with a pencil sketch of, of um Jose Feliciano. [Peter] Really? [Rob] Yeah...um...courier mail sketch. That's when I knew I had some talent that that was the first real confirmation I had of any talent. [Peter] Did you title it, "Light my Fire"?
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No, I d' know...maybe? No, I d' know...maybe?
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But I just want to backtrack a little bit... [Peter] Sure. [Rob] ...you talked about a moment when your father's words cut deep there...I had a similar moment at a similar age. I think it would have been eight to ten years old and er But I just want to backtrack a little bit... [Peter] Sure. [Rob] ...you talked about a moment when your father's words cut deep there...I had a similar moment at a similar age. I think it would have been eight to ten years old and er
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I remember...he used to always put me down and and tell me I was useless and good for nothing and rah rah rah... [Peter] Yeah. [Rob] ...and there was a moment, where on the loading dock of his fruit shop in Toowoomba I remember...he used to always put me down and and tell me I was useless and good for nothing and rah rah rah... [Peter] Yeah. [Rob] ...and there was a moment, where on the loading dock of his fruit shop in Toowoomba
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I'd been given a job to do...don't know what it was...but apparently I hadn't done it -or I hadn't done it properly or something I'd been given a job to do...don't know what it was...but apparently I hadn't done it -or I hadn't done it properly or something
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and I can still feel the moment...and...him...he turned, and he looked at me and he said, "You are good for nothing useless!" ...And I can remember the sense of those words landing in my body. [Peter] Mmm. and I can still feel the moment...and...him...he turned, and he looked at me and he said, "You are good for nothing useless!" ...And I can remember the sense of those words landing in my body. [Peter] Mmm.
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And really...they defined me... And really...they defined me...
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...they defined me until I was about 40...and r- struggle...real struggle with real self esteem issues, self-confidence and feelings of self- ...lack of s- self-worth. ...they defined me until I was about 40...and r- struggle...real struggle with real self esteem issues, self-confidence and feelings of self- ...lack of s- self-worth.
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So when I won that art competition, that was the first spark of encouragement that I can recall receiving...you know? So when I won that art competition, that was the first spark of encouragement that I can recall receiving...you know?
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And um... And um...
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finished my senior year and won one...I...junior actually only went to year 10. There was no point in me continuing past there. [Peter] Me too. [Rob] The only subjects I excelled in were tech drawing or... finished my senior year and won one...I...junior actually only went to year 10. There was no point in me continuing past there. [Peter] Me too. [Rob] The only subjects I excelled in were tech drawing or...
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or art, you know. or art, you know.
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So um... So um...
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yeah, went on to get an apprenticeship uh in sign writing. yeah, went on to get an apprenticeship uh in sign writing.
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And um...pretty much fresh out of school...I was quite fortunate to score that. And um...pretty much fresh out of school...I was quite fortunate to score that.
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So...I believe you became a musician. D...was that at an early time or... [Peter] Yeah, I did, I did...I just wanted to say something that the the the sense of words So...I believe you became a musician. D...was that at an early time or... [Peter] Yeah, I did, I did...I just wanted to say something that the the the sense of words
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cutting deep and settling in... [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] I have that experience...ah it was pretty, pretty seminal when my father told me, "You're no son of mine". [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] But he didn't say it in an American voice though, so (laughs) cutting deep and settling in... [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] I have that experience...ah it was pretty, pretty seminal when my father told me, "You're no son of mine". [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] But he didn't say it in an American voice though, so (laughs)
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but years later, I was married and I but years later, I was married and I
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was visiting my father...they'd been living in Darwin and er Cyclone Tracy came along and everything fell down and they had to leave... and they started living down at Wellington Point and I went down was visiting my father...they'd been living in Darwin and er Cyclone Tracy came along and everything fell down and they had to leave... and they started living down at Wellington Point and I went down
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to visit my father one day...and I'd been, you know er... to visit my father one day...and I'd been, you know er...
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I wasn't a happy man in those days, and I would... I wasn't a happy man in those days, and I would...
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b' drinking and you know b' drinking and you know
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doing almost everything that wasn't good for me. doing almost everything that wasn't good for me.
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And I put on a gut And I put on a gut
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and I remember walking into the room and my father just glancin' around... and I remember walking into the room and my father just glancin' around...
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glancing at me and turning his head away as though he was disgusted and him saying, glancing at me and turning his head away as though he was disgusted and him saying,
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"You got a belly on you like a pregnant pup". "You got a belly on you like a pregnant pup".
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Ohhhh (laughs painfully)...That's settled in...I can still...I can still...when I say the words, I can still feel the bite of it. [Rob] Umm. Umm. [Peter] Whoo. Ohhhh (laughs painfully)...That's settled in...I can still...I can still...when I say the words, I can still feel the bite of it. [Rob] Umm. Umm. [Peter] Whoo.
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Umm. Umm.
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[Rob] Those words are powerful. [Peter] Yeah, I'll tell you, I'm not...I was probably not the best father in the world, but Christ, I hope I didn't do that. [Rob] Those words are powerful. [Peter] Yeah, I'll tell you, I'm not...I was probably not the best father in the world, but Christ, I hope I didn't do that.
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[Peter] I hope I didn't do that. [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] I suspect that I did. [Peter] I hope I didn't do that. [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] I suspect that I did.
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[Peter] Right....if I did, I'm sorry (painful laugh). [Rob] That was a vow I took with my kids. I would encourage them and and and s- guide them to find what they're good at, [Peter] Right....if I did, I'm sorry (painful laugh). [Rob] That was a vow I took with my kids. I would encourage them and and and s- guide them to find what they're good at,
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and and nurture that. and and nurture that.
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And each one of them has done that. And each one of them has done that.
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Nah, I wouldn't treat my kids like that. I made that vow. Nah, I wouldn't treat my kids like that. I made that vow.
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Well, I think I I think I was doing okay Well, I think I I think I was doing okay
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until until u- until until u-
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until we got divorced and until we got divorced and
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[Peter] I had a boy and a girl... [Rob] Um [Peter] ...and still have...I don't see them, but I have them. [Peter] I had a boy and a girl... [Rob] Um [Peter] ...and still have...I don't see them, but I have them.
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And er... And er...
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and the pressure of sort of...um...the pressure of and the pressure of sort of...um...the pressure of
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ah ah
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keeping a rental home and er...so that they could visit, keeping a rental home and er...so that they could visit,
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and paying child support, and so on... and paying child support, and so on...
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really got to me and er...and then when my, my ex-wife really got to me and er...and then when my, my ex-wife
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had another...had he- her current partner move into the house had another...had he- her current partner move into the house
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I...was trying to get my son to come and live with me, week on week off, and and one day he said something to me...and I heard his mother's voice in it. I...was trying to get my son to come and live with me, week on week off, and and one day he said something to me...and I heard his mother's voice in it.
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And it was very disrespectful and it just triggered me...ohh...my grief And it was very disrespectful and it just triggered me...ohh...my grief
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welled up and I said...and I...we're talking about, you know... welled up and I said...and I...we're talking about, you know...
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He said, he said ohh something like He said, he said ohh something like
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"Look...you know I- I'm not coming week on week...er you're dreaming dad". "Look...you know I- I'm not coming week on week...er you're dreaming dad".
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And I just said, And I just said,
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"I'm not your father. "I'm not your father.
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You know, I'm... You know, I'm...
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I see you, but I don't get to... I see you, but I don't get to...
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I don't get to see you. I don't get to tuck you in. I don't get to do your homework." ...you know...And it was just this feeling like a milk cow, really, and not feeling anything like a father, like... [Rob] Hmmm. [Peter] ...taking the kids to McDonald's, taking the kids down by the creek and... I don't get to see you. I don't get to tuck you in. I don't get to do your homework." ...you know...And it was just this feeling like a milk cow, really, and not feeling anything like a father, like... [Rob] Hmmm. [Peter] ...taking the kids to McDonald's, taking the kids down by the creek and...
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just ah...you know...I have a lot of shame around that. I handled it badly. I was, you know, it was pretty crazy man...Just the interesting thing about it is, that it took me some years to find out what had actually gone...been going on there and... just ah...you know...I have a lot of shame around that. I handled it badly. I was, you know, it was pretty crazy man...Just the interesting thing about it is, that it took me some years to find out what had actually gone...been going on there and...
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and during the divorce settlement, I'd and during the divorce settlement, I'd
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I'd said that er... I'd said that er...
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that er... that er...
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my ex-wife could be the primary care-giver. my ex-wife could be the primary care-giver.
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And I didn't understand the ramifications of that and so And I didn't understand the ramifications of that and so
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I was living in this dirty little flat. I was living in this dirty little flat.
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...Just coming out of a six-year illness actually, and I was living in this dirty little flat with with...bugger...with very little money. ...Just coming out of a six-year illness actually, and I was living in this dirty little flat with with...bugger...with very little money.
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And... And...
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and I suddenly...I just thought I'd gone mad....I just thought I'd gone mad 'cause I was acting and I suddenly...I just thought I'd gone mad....I just thought I'd gone mad 'cause I was acting
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you know...drinking too much...and, and I was still crook so I was spending my days watching television, lying on this dirty carpet in this ugly flat. you know...drinking too much...and, and I was still crook so I was spending my days watching television, lying on this dirty carpet in this ugly flat.
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...part of the carpet bed from a previous tenant and stains on the walls... ...part of the carpet bed from a previous tenant and stains on the walls...
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and it wasn't until years later that I realised that I that I had probably gone mad, but it was grief... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...I didn't understand...I had bought the whole myth and it wasn't until years later that I realised that I that I had probably gone mad, but it was grief... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...I didn't understand...I had bought the whole myth
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that that had been promulgated through Woman's Day and and er (laughs painfully) newspapers and law courts that that that men don't want to father; that men can't love; that men can't nurture; that it's the woman's job to do that...and I bought that... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] I... that that had been promulgated through Woman's Day and and er (laughs painfully) newspapers and law courts that that that men don't want to father; that men can't love; that men can't nurture; that it's the woman's job to do that...and I bought that... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] I...
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[Peter] It's... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...it was my teaching...and...but the reason I went off the rails so much was just grief...grief at the loss of my children...and it was a loss. It was just [Peter] It's... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...it was my teaching...and...but the reason I went off the rails so much was just grief...grief at the loss of my children...and it was a loss. It was just
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I didn't make it any better I didn't make it any better
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by my behaviour but by my behaviour but
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bloody hell it was hard... bloody hell it was hard...
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[Peter] ...and... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...and... [Rob] Mmm.
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So, I- I actually retrieved some of that. I took my son on a "pathways to manhood" - if that's what it's called. So, I- I actually retrieved some of that. I took my son on a "pathways to manhood" - if that's what it's called.
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And... And...
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and we had a strong bonding experience...and I- we came back and his mother was there, and I shook her partner's hand, and I gave her a hug and it was and we had a strong bonding experience...and I- we came back and his mother was there, and I shook her partner's hand, and I gave her a hug and it was
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a beautiful moment, but I just... a beautiful moment, but I just...
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but the the the financial pressure was so much but the the the financial pressure was so much
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I couldn't even afford to work, really. I was going back by $10 a week I couldn't even afford to work, really. I was going back by $10 a week
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because I was trying to maintain this rental home. because I was trying to maintain this rental home.
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And and... And and...
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[Peter] ...it was just...it was just too much. [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...it was just...it was just too much. [Rob] Mmm.
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And um...yeah...and it... And um...yeah...and it...
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The pressure of that too broke my health again so (laughs painfully) The pressure of that too broke my health again so (laughs painfully)
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Yeah...I worked for about er...worked for about six years and then I fell in... Yeah...I worked for about er...worked for about six years and then I fell in...
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fell in a heap again. What I didn't know fell in a heap again. What I didn't know
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at that time, was at that time, was
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I had a motorcycle accident when I was 16, and I smashed up my leg and I had multiple I had a motorcycle accident when I was 16, and I smashed up my leg and I had multiple
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multiple blood transfusions multiple blood transfusions
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and and
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what I discovered in my 40s what I discovered in my 40s
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was that while they had replaced my blood and saved my life, they'd also given me was that while they had replaced my blood and saved my life, they'd also given me
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Hep C as a little side gift. Hep C as a little side gift.
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And it wasn't until...you know...until my 40s that And it wasn't until...you know...until my 40s that
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some other illness kicked in, and then this kicked in, and suddenly I was on the back for six years. some other illness kicked in, and then this kicked in, and suddenly I was on the back for six years.
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So... So...
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messy... messy...
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But back to your original question...rambling a bit... But back to your original question...rambling a bit...
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te... te...
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yeah, I...I... yeah, I...I...
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I was...I was obsessed with music from the age of I was...I was obsessed with music from the age of
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whenever I've had my first memory. whenever I've had my first memory.
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And I can remember getting up at six o'clock in the morning, even when I was a little bloke, six years old, listening to the... And I can remember getting up at six o'clock in the morning, even when I was a little bloke, six years old, listening to the...
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the the
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music that was bo- broadcast from 4BU Bundaberg for the farmers... you know, the "Yellow Rose of Texas", etcetera. I just ate that stuff up. music that was bo- broadcast from 4BU Bundaberg for the farmers... you know, the "Yellow Rose of Texas", etcetera. I just ate that stuff up.
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And I was obsessed with the whole thing. And then, one day And I was obsessed with the whole thing. And then, one day
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my sister, Janice, bought home a bloke from New Zealand, and he had a guitar with him...the first guitar I'd ever been close to...'cause people didn't play in those days, really my sister, Janice, bought home a bloke from New Zealand, and he had a guitar with him...the first guitar I'd ever been close to...'cause people didn't play in those days, really
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and er and er
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[Peter] that was it. It was all over for me. He played Aotearoa on this guitar and I was gone. There was nothing else in my head. [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] that was it. It was all over for me. He played Aotearoa on this guitar and I was gone. There was nothing else in my head. [Rob] Mmm.
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[Peter] No...not interested in school. Used to surf a bit, but school was gone. Everything was gone, apart from playing this instrument. [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] No...not interested in school. Used to surf a bit, but school was gone. Everything was gone, apart from playing this instrument. [Rob] Mmm.
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[Rob] Art um...became my saviour, Peter. Was music yours? It was my retreat - my kind of escape from... [Peter] Yeah...look...I- I'm absolutely er [Rob] Art um...became my saviour, Peter. Was music yours? It was my retreat - my kind of escape from... [Peter] Yeah...look...I- I'm absolutely er
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I... I...
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don't know what it was that....I don't know how I wound up being different. I...I... don't know what it was that....I don't know how I wound up being different. I...I...
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but there was a hole in me. There was a there was something missing, but there was a hole in me. There was a there was something missing,
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and playing music and playing music
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 - not just playing it, but playing and listening to it, filled that hole.  - not just playing it, but playing and listening to it, filled that hole.
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And...and it did that for many, many years until I started doing men's work and I And...and it did that for many, many years until I started doing men's work and I
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[Peter] found the hole...found that there were other ways to fill it... [Rob] Hmm. [Peter] found the hole...found that there were other ways to fill it... [Rob] Hmm.
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rather than standing on a stage. rather than standing on a stage.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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[Rob] Yeah, I didn't start to discover that until er...my 50s really... [Peter] Yep. [Rob] And I filled my life with family, and we had five children, Annie and I... married for 25 years...but basically unconscious. [Rob] Yeah, I didn't start to discover that until er...my 50s really... [Peter] Yep. [Rob] And I filled my life with family, and we had five children, Annie and I... married for 25 years...but basically unconscious.
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Hmm. Hmm.
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[Rob] So...hmm... [Peter] I've gotta say that that's, that's my experience...and I...it's entirely down to me...I'm...you know... [Rob] So...hmm... [Peter] I've gotta say that that's, that's my experience...and I...it's entirely down to me...I'm...you know...
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But I don't think... But I don't think...
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real...that I was ever really intimate with my wife once. real...that I was ever really intimate with my wife once.
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Oh...didn't... Oh...didn't...
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[Peter] I didn't understand what it meant. I had no education in that. There were no blokes around to tell me about it. All I heard... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...was [Peter] I didn't understand what it meant. I had no education in that. There were no blokes around to tell me about it. All I heard... [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] ...was
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people whinging about people whinging about
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their husbands or their wives...never heard any their husbands or their wives...never heard any
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particular celebration of it. Now, I celebrate it entirely, but particular celebration of it. Now, I celebrate it entirely, but
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not in my in my early years... A most terrifying... not in my in my early years... A most terrifying...
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one of the most terrifying times in my early life was the night that I was standing one of the most terrifying times in my early life was the night that I was standing
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near the fridge and my mother near the fridge and my mother
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crouched down next to me and said, and whispered to me, crouched down next to me and said, and whispered to me,
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[Peter] "If I leave, will you go with me?" [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] "If I leave, will you go with me?" [Rob] Mmm.
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I just backed up into the corner next to the fridge and said, "No, no...I wanna stay here! I wanna stay here!" I just backed up into the corner next to the fridge and said, "No, no...I wanna stay here! I wanna stay here!"
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[Peter] Yeah...I forgot that one. [Rob] Mmm...time hearing Peter that we've we've got a similar [Peter] Yeah...I forgot that one. [Rob] Mmm...time hearing Peter that we've we've got a similar
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upbringing and and I've shared how upbringing and and I've shared how
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the treatment from my father and and the attitudes he's instilled in me really the treatment from my father and and the attitudes he's instilled in me really
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[Rob] framed my life up until 40...50, and I'm hearing you...that lack of a father figure and good role models in your life too... [Peter] ...My father, you know, my father was a good bloke. You know, I see my father...you know...I'd like to see my father as God. So, if I turned up the Pearly Gates, he'd walk out, you know, with a fag in his mouth... and he put his arm around my shoulders and he'd say, [Rob] framed my life up until 40...50, and I'm hearing you...that lack of a father figure and good role models in your life too... [Peter] ...My father, you know, my father was a good bloke. You know, I see my father...you know...I'd like to see my father as God. So, if I turned up the Pearly Gates, he'd walk out, you know, with a fag in his mouth... and he put his arm around my shoulders and he'd say,
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[Peter] "Come on in, you poor silly bastard"... [Rob] Laughs. [Peter] ...Sort of like that, you know? [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] So, I...I got fond feelings for my father - for my whole family; I was very lucky... [Rob] Yep. [Peter] ...but [Peter] "Come on in, you poor silly bastard"... [Rob] Laughs. [Peter] ...Sort of like that, you know? [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] So, I...I got fond feelings for my father - for my whole family; I was very lucky... [Rob] Yep. [Peter] ...but
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to expect a whole bunch of blokes - a whole generation of men who'd just come back from a war... [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] ...to be to expect a whole bunch of blokes - a whole generation of men who'd just come back from a war... [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] ...to be
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insightful and dutiful fathers is just lunatic... [Rob] Hmm. Yeah. [Peter] ...and that that impacted me and it impacted all the blokes I knew. [Rob] Yeah. insightful and dutiful fathers is just lunatic... [Rob] Hmm. Yeah. [Peter] ...and that that impacted me and it impacted all the blokes I knew. [Rob] Yeah.
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Yeah...I think it's impacted on society something er Yeah...I think it's impacted on society something er
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dreadful...and that's what we're dealing with. dreadful...and that's what we're dealing with.
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[Peter] Well, I see... [Rob] Nowadays. [Peter] I see three generations of men. My father's father went to the First World War, [Peter] Well, I see... [Rob] Nowadays. [Peter] I see three generations of men. My father's father went to the First World War,
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then came back and I'm told he bashed my father relentlessly. then came back and I'm told he bashed my father relentlessly.
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My father went to the Second World War. My father went to the Second World War.
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A bunch of my mates went to Vietnam...I didn't...I didn't go because I was in hospital after a motorcycle accident A bunch of my mates went to Vietnam...I didn't...I didn't go because I was in hospital after a motorcycle accident
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and er... and er...
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but but
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what...what do people expect? You know, these blokes...three...three generations of men in Australia going to war what...what do people expect? You know, these blokes...three...three generations of men in Australia going to war
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then coming home then coming home
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and people saying, "Now, all the good jobs are gone, but you can have a shit job". and people saying, "Now, all the good jobs are gone, but you can have a shit job".
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[Peter] ...And..."Listen...shut up. No one wants to listen." [Rob] Mmm. Mmm. [Peter] ...and that's about...that's about how it went. So...I'm not surprised [Peter] ...And..."Listen...shut up. No one wants to listen." [Rob] Mmm. Mmm. [Peter] ...and that's about...that's about how it went. So...I'm not surprised
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that the picture wasn't pretty. that the picture wasn't pretty.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Exactly. Exactly.
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And I feel my my life was hijacked by this church and its beliefs and so on, you know? And I feel my my life was hijacked by this church and its beliefs and so on, you know?
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And to find my own way and what I truly believe, my own experience... And to find my own way and what I truly believe, my own experience...
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[Rob] ...it's only been then that I've broken free of all of that. [Peter] Yeah. [Rob] Mmm. [Rob] ...it's only been then that I've broken free of all of that. [Peter] Yeah. [Rob] Mmm.
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Well, I know that as a younger man, I left a lot of scooch scorched earth behind me...I was never abusive to anyone...I've never hit a woman in my life. Most of my abuse was reserved for me Well, I know that as a younger man, I left a lot of scooch scorched earth behind me...I was never abusive to anyone...I've never hit a woman in my life. Most of my abuse was reserved for me
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[Peter] but I...I...don't think it ha- had enhanced the world the way I...the way I acted. [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] I'm pretty grateful that I've been around blokes who were who've shown me enough [Peter] but I...I...don't think it ha- had enhanced the world the way I...the way I acted. [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] I'm pretty grateful that I've been around blokes who were who've shown me enough
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[Peter] that I could work out that that wasn't a useful way to be for me... [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] ...or for the people around me. [Peter] that I could work out that that wasn't a useful way to be for me... [Rob] Yeah. [Peter] ...or for the people around me.
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[Peter] That includes you...[Rob] Yeah. [Peter] ...and other blokes that I've known for a long time. [Rob] Mmm. [Peter] That includes you...[Rob] Yeah. [Peter] ...and other blokes that I've known for a long time. [Rob] Mmm.
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[Rob] Yeah. My father's legacy was to show me what it is to not be a father. [Peter] Ha! ha! (laughs) [Rob] Yeah. My father's legacy was to show me what it is to not be a father. [Peter] Ha! ha! (laughs)
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[Peter] Madness... [Rob] (laughs) [Peter] ...it's a hard one to live. [Rob] So, I'm there for my sons...as best I can...yeah. [Peter] Madness... [Rob] (laughs) [Peter] ...it's a hard one to live. [Rob] So, I'm there for my sons...as best I can...yeah.
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Thank you. Thank you.
39:12

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Thank you, Peter. Thank you, Peter.
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Thank you. Thank you.