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0:01

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OK, so my name is Henry Sewell and I'm talking with Trevor Ozanne. [Tevor] Ozanne Ozanne, yeah. [Hamish] Azaan Azaan. [Henry] Today's dates, the first of uh the 5th of May, 2016. And we're here at the Manshine Camp, Somerset and we're going to talk sort of largely around the history of men's well being, aren't we Trev? [Trevor] We are, yeah. [Hamish] So can you briefly describe where you'd like to go with this conversation? OK, so my name is Henry Sewell and I'm talking with Trevor Ozanne. [Tevor] Ozanne Ozanne, yeah. [Hamish] Azaan Azaan. [Henry] Today's dates, the first of uh the 5th of May, 2016. And we're here at the Manshine Camp, Somerset and we're going to talk sort of largely around the history of men's well being, aren't we Trev? [Trevor] We are, yeah. [Hamish] So can you briefly describe where you'd like to go with this conversation?
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Just that. Just that.
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As we were driving here. As we were driving here.
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At ?Mount? passed Mount Glorious on the way here on Friday, we we passed the site of the first ever Queensland Men's Festival in October 1992. At ?Mount? passed Mount Glorious on the way here on Friday, we we passed the site of the first ever Queensland Men's Festival in October 1992.
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[Hamish] Where was that? [Trevor] It was at the what is now the Uniting Church campsite at Mount Glorious. [Hamish] Where was that? [Trevor] It was at the what is now the Uniting Church campsite at Mount Glorious.
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[Hamish] Do you remember that? [Trevor] Oh, I do. I remember it clearly. I was an organiser. One of two organisers there. [Hamish] Two? [Trevor] One of two. Hmm. [Hamish] So why did you step up to it? [Hamish] Do you remember that? [Trevor] Oh, I do. I remember it clearly. I was an organiser. One of two organisers there. [Hamish] Two? [Trevor] One of two. Hmm. [Hamish] So why did you step up to it?
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I, I, I, I was interested in, in the concept concept of having a, a Queensland men's festival, and the person organising got about six people to step forward, um, and only two of us didn't step back. I, I, I, I was interested in, in the concept concept of having a, a Queensland men's festival, and the person organising got about six people to step forward, um, and only two of us didn't step back.
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So we were left there. And when we - we didn't do a lot. All we ended up doing was we found a venue which was the Mount Glorious venue, um, and they had their own cook, so we didn't have to even organise, uh catering. So we were left there. And when we - we didn't do a lot. All we ended up doing was we found a venue which was the Mount Glorious venue, um, and they had their own cook, so we didn't have to even organise, uh catering.
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And we just, from then we just had to go and find some people to, to attend. So it began in about January that year and it happened in November. [Hamish] Right. So, so when you say it began in January-- [Trevor] The, the process of. And we just, from then we just had to go and find some people to, to attend. So it began in about January that year and it happened in November. [Hamish] Right. So, so when you say it began in January-- [Trevor] The, the process of.
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Offered the first meeting was held at the Normandy Hotel, um, at the end of the end of January that year and. Offered the first meeting was held at the Normandy Hotel, um, at the end of the end of January that year and.
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I've Kerry, Kerry somebody? Kerry Somebody was a member of a men's group in Brisbane. There was a thing called a Brisbane Men's Group. I've Kerry, Kerry somebody? Kerry Somebody was a member of a men's group in Brisbane. There was a thing called a Brisbane Men's Group.
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And there might have been a couple of men's groups around Brisbane, but there was also one in the Sunshine Coast, and they were called Smeri, SMERI, Sunshine Coast, Men's Emotion Support Initiative, or something like that. Whatever comes out of Smeri. And there was a Gold Coast men's group with a wonderful name called Men at the Edge Mate. And there might have been a couple of men's groups around Brisbane, but there was also one in the Sunshine Coast, and they were called Smeri, SMERI, Sunshine Coast, Men's Emotion Support Initiative, or something like that. Whatever comes out of Smeri. And there was a Gold Coast men's group with a wonderful name called Men at the Edge Mate.
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And so they, they uh. And so they, they uh.
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We just contacted whoever we knew, and uh, said we're we're having this men's gathering, we've organised a venue, can you organise a few guys to come along, and we ended up with 30 guys, 30 guys on our list to attend. We just contacted whoever we knew, and uh, said we're we're having this men's gathering, we've organised a venue, can you organise a few guys to come along, and we ended up with 30 guys, 30 guys on our list to attend.
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And 25 attended. [Hamish] Had you ever done anything like that before? [Trevor] Never. Never, never. [Hamish] So. And where, where, tell me where you were in your life. [Trevor] In my life? [Hamish] Yeah, what were you doing, that sort of that, that allowed you to kind of come in on something like this? [Trevor] My life, my life had been in turmoil, uh, and one of the people who attended was the the guy I ended up seeing as a counsellor, Mel McHewitt. And 25 attended. [Hamish] Had you ever done anything like that before? [Trevor] Never. Never, never. [Hamish] So. And where, where, tell me where you were in your life. [Trevor] In my life? [Hamish] Yeah, what were you doing, that sort of that, that allowed you to kind of come in on something like this? [Trevor] My life, my life had been in turmoil, uh, and one of the people who attended was the the guy I ended up seeing as a counsellor, Mel McHewitt.
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His wife was a counsellor too. His wife was a counsellor too.
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I forget her first, oh, Christine McHewitt. That's right. I forget her first, oh, Christine McHewitt. That's right.
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And, and in my turmoil I ended up with with Mel McHewitee as counsellor. And he ran, he ran a nine-week program called Rediscovering Masculinity, um, and towards the end of that program. And, and in my turmoil I ended up with with Mel McHewitee as counsellor. And he ran, he ran a nine-week program called Rediscovering Masculinity, um, and towards the end of that program.
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Kerry Kerry
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Kerry Kerry
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Whoever it was, I'll think of his name soon. Whoever it was, I'll think of his name soon.
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Came along and said, well, we're, we're running, we're organising a men's first Queensland men's gathering, because the the men from the Sydney Men's Festival have, have prompted us, so have uh Came along and said, well, we're, we're running, we're organising a men's first Queensland men's gathering, because the the men from the Sydney Men's Festival have, have prompted us, so have uh
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Have nudged us to say it's about time you Queensland guys organised your own men's festival, because the Sydney Men's festival had been going on annually for about eight years I think by then. [Hamish] Yeah, 'cause I was in one of the first ones in the Sydney Men's Festival, and I was involved in a group called MOP, Men Opposed to the Patriarchy. And it's kind of hilarious to think back on that label now. But we used to meet out at a place called Minto. [Trevor] And Minto was where, yeah. [Hamish] Yeah, and that was about uh two hours out of Sydney. Have nudged us to say it's about time you Queensland guys organised your own men's festival, because the Sydney Men's festival had been going on annually for about eight years I think by then. [Hamish] Yeah, 'cause I was in one of the first ones in the Sydney Men's Festival, and I was involved in a group called MOP, Men Opposed to the Patriarchy. And it's kind of hilarious to think back on that label now. But we used to meet out at a place called Minto. [Trevor] And Minto was where, yeah. [Hamish] Yeah, and that was about uh two hours out of Sydney.
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A lovely place, the Salvation Army camp out there. [Trevor] I would have, I would have said it was the the Communist Party campsite. [Hamish] I think it might have changed a few-- [Trevor] Yeah, it may have. [Hamish] A few owners. [Trevor] Well, there may have been more than one. [Hamish] Yeah. So what you're saying basically is the Queensland initiative which was about eight years after the Sydney one started was prompted by that Sydney one? [Trevor] The Sydney people offered seeding money. They offered $2000 seeding money to get you guys started, but we want our money back, but when in the reality was A lovely place, the Salvation Army camp out there. [Trevor] I would have, I would have said it was the the Communist Party campsite. [Hamish] I think it might have changed a few-- [Trevor] Yeah, it may have. [Hamish] A few owners. [Trevor] Well, there may have been more than one. [Hamish] Yeah. So what you're saying basically is the Queensland initiative which was about eight years after the Sydney one started was prompted by that Sydney one? [Trevor] The Sydney people offered seeding money. They offered $2000 seeding money to get you guys started, but we want our money back, but when in the reality was
5:17

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was the money didn't ever come through 'cause whoever had the money disappeared into the sunset. But we managed, the first guys to pay their, to pay their, was the money didn't ever come through 'cause whoever had the money disappeared into the sunset. But we managed, the first guys to pay their, to pay their,
5:28

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Their enrolment provided us with enough money to pay the Uniting Church a bond on the property and we were off. We were off. We ended up making a profit. The 20 to 25 or 30. Whoever paid was was more than enough to pay for the venue and we ended up with $600.00 profit which we had to decide what to do with at the end. [Hamish] And what was the the format for the weekend? [Trevor] The format was 0. Their enrolment provided us with enough money to pay the Uniting Church a bond on the property and we were off. We were off. We ended up making a profit. The 20 to 25 or 30. Whoever paid was was more than enough to pay for the venue and we ended up with $600.00 profit which we had to decide what to do with at the end. [Hamish] And what was the the format for the weekend? [Trevor] The format was 0.
5:56

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Instead, we had our first meal on the Friday night. Instead, we had our first meal on the Friday night.
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And, and someone from one of the men's groups with a bit of ?male Anna.? And, and someone from one of the men's groups with a bit of ?male Anna.?
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Tom, Tom Laffin, Tom Laffin had a bit of experience in one of the men's groups in Brisbane, and he just stood with his black pen and his whiteboard and said, well, men, what are we gonna do this weekend? Tom, Tom Laffin, Tom Laffin had a bit of experience in one of the men's groups in Brisbane, and he just stood with his black pen and his whiteboard and said, well, men, what are we gonna do this weekend?
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That was the program. [Hamish] That's great. [Trevor] Which is what the way the Sydney men used to work. They would start with a whiteboard, no program. We did have a brochure. I've got a copy of the brochure and my memory of it, uh, the brochure had a guy jumping out of a plane. That was the program. [Hamish] That's great. [Trevor] Which is what the way the Sydney men used to work. They would start with a whiteboard, no program. We did have a brochure. I've got a copy of the brochure and my memory of it, uh, the brochure had a guy jumping out of a plane.
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Free falling. Free falling.
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I thought, oh, that's a nice image. [Hamish] Yeah. [Trevor] 'Cause we felt a little bit like that. All of us. Every-- I thought, oh, that's a nice image. [Hamish] Yeah. [Trevor] 'Cause we felt a little bit like that. All of us. Every--
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I was gonna say every one of us. There may have been one guy with a bit of experience on the Sydney Men's Festival who came along. Yeah. [Hamish] And it's, it's interesting, isn't it? I mean, it's been an amazing journey for you because you've been involved in organising some of the ones which are still kind of starting now, like with the TasMen, and also I think Cairns, you're involved in one recently. [Trevor] Yeah, I've attended TasMen. I went to the first Cairns one, and I tried to keep it going, but they they ran out of momentum eventually. But that's the only one. I was gonna say every one of us. There may have been one guy with a bit of experience on the Sydney Men's Festival who came along. Yeah. [Hamish] And it's, it's interesting, isn't it? I mean, it's been an amazing journey for you because you've been involved in organising some of the ones which are still kind of starting now, like with the TasMen, and also I think Cairns, you're involved in one recently. [Trevor] Yeah, I've attended TasMen. I went to the first Cairns one, and I tried to keep it going, but they they ran out of momentum eventually. But that's the only one.
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In the last 25 years that that has failed in that sense of of not continuing. But what came out of the one at Mount Glorious was. In the last 25 years that that has failed in that sense of of not continuing. But what came out of the one at Mount Glorious was.
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With our spare $600.00 where I said, well, you know, basically the money belongs to all of you. All of us, do we just give a refund? And someone said, no, no we'll keep it for a bond for the for the next time, and the the Men At The Edge that got us on, the Gold Coast guys, said Oh, we'll, we'll put one on in a year. We'll find a venue. We'll put one on a year, in a year's time same time of year. And the Sunshine Coast guy said, oh, we'll put one on in six month's time. With our spare $600.00 where I said, well, you know, basically the money belongs to all of you. All of us, do we just give a refund? And someone said, no, no we'll keep it for a bond for the for the next time, and the the Men At The Edge that got us on, the Gold Coast guys, said Oh, we'll, we'll put one on in a year. We'll find a venue. We'll put one on a year, in a year's time same time of year. And the Sunshine Coast guy said, oh, we'll put one on in six month's time.
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We'll put one on at the Queen's Birthday weekend. And ever since, for the last 23 years we've had two men's festivals without fail. We'll put one on at the Queen's Birthday weekend. And ever since, for the last 23 years we've had two men's festivals without fail.
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Coming out of this Mount Glorious event. [Hamish] And we're talking Manhood and Manshine. Coming out of this Mount Glorious event. [Hamish] And we're talking Manhood and Manshine.
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They, they are called that now. They're originally called the Queensland Men's Festival. The Sunshine Coast guys called theirs the SMERI Men's Gathering or something like that, to use that, incorporate the Sunshine Coast name. They, they are called that now. They're originally called the Queensland Men's Festival. The Sunshine Coast guys called theirs the SMERI Men's Gathering or something like that, to use that, incorporate the Sunshine Coast name.
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I think the Gold Coast guys call theirs the Gold Coast Men's Festival. But then I think the Gold Coast guys call theirs the Gold Coast Men's Festival. But then
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Within 18 months, Men's Helpline had come out of, uh, the Sunshine Coast Festival, and because there was no support anywhere else for the Men's Helpline Within 18 months, Men's Helpline had come out of, uh, the Sunshine Coast Festival, and because there was no support anywhere else for the Men's Helpline
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There was a There was a
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A decision that the, the funds the profits from the. A decision that the, the funds the profits from the.
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Men's festivals from then on for the next six years, would support the the Men's Helpline. So that because they became known as the, the the Men's Helpline festival. Men's festivals from then on for the next six years, would support the the Men's Helpline. So that because they became known as the, the the Men's Helpline festival.
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Now we've got a big ark of, of changes over the years, but if you were to look at that Mount Glorious camp and think about what happened during that, do you see differences and similarities to what's going on in 2016 to Manshine today? Now we've got a big ark of, of changes over the years, but if you were to look at that Mount Glorious camp and think about what happened during that, do you see differences and similarities to what's going on in 2016 to Manshine today?
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My ?Amish? My immediate response is similar sort of clientele, although we've got fewer uh older ones, but we've certainly got an age range uh My ?Amish? My immediate response is similar sort of clientele, although we've got fewer uh older ones, but we've certainly got an age range uh
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I guess out of 25 attendees, I guess out of 25 attendees,
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You know, obviously you've got a smaller age range. But, oh, there were a few more councillors at the You know, obviously you've got a smaller age range. But, oh, there were a few more councillors at the
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First one. First one.
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I can picture in the, in that, that original. I can picture in the, in that, that original.
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Photo there were, my counsellor was there, Peter Howie, I guess he's he wasn't acting as a counsellor, but his, his skills were that way. Photo there were, my counsellor was there, Peter Howie, I guess he's he wasn't acting as a counsellor, but his, his skills were that way.
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And Kerry Cronin, who was a counsellor. And Kerry Cronin, who was a counsellor.
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He was the one who eventually brought along one of his clients who, who said, well, why don't we get a telephone service going as well. [Hamish] Yeah, 'cause I reflect back on 1986, when I first did my first one in Sydney, and I reflect back on there probably were about 70 or 80 people at the gathering that I was involved in. He was the one who eventually brought along one of his clients who, who said, well, why don't we get a telephone service going as well. [Hamish] Yeah, 'cause I reflect back on 1986, when I first did my first one in Sydney, and I reflect back on there probably were about 70 or 80 people at the gathering that I was involved in.
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And I think. And I think.
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The general sense I would have, Trev, and I'm not sure what you would say about this, was that a lot of men were sort of reeling under the impact of feminism. The general sense I would have, Trev, and I'm not sure what you would say about this, was that a lot of men were sort of reeling under the impact of feminism.
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Feminism had been a big impact on a lot of the men, and we were all searching for kinda where we fitted into the equation. Feminism had been a big impact on a lot of the men, and we were all searching for kinda where we fitted into the equation.
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Gender sorta roles had changed, our roles of men had changed. The women were sort of, you know, where they were kind of doing their own political thing. And where did we fit? Where did we all fit? Where did we fit sexually? Where do we fit within our roles? Where do we fit with each other? Gender sorta roles had changed, our roles of men had changed. The women were sort of, you know, where they were kind of doing their own political thing. And where did we fit? Where did we all fit? Where did we fit sexually? Where do we fit within our roles? Where do we fit with each other?
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And that was a big sort of, I think, it's sort of an undercurrent for me when I did my first one. But maybe that was also more to do with my background. And that was a big sort of, I think, it's sort of an undercurrent for me when I did my first one. But maybe that was also more to do with my background.
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Well, I guess, it depends on on how we think about it, but as you speak and as I visualise the photo of those 25 men, uh, there was a man from the Metropolitan Community Church. Well, I guess, it depends on on how we think about it, but as you speak and as I visualise the photo of those 25 men, uh, there was a man from the Metropolitan Community Church.
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Ivor Holman, these names are coming back to me. Ivor, Ivor, um, he was the, Ivor Holman, these names are coming back to me. Ivor, Ivor, um, he was the,
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I guess, pastor. He was called a pastor, I think he was, and that was a church for for gay people. It came out of the USA under the name of Metropolitan Community Church. But there was a Brisbane, there was a Brisbane - I guess, pastor. He was called a pastor, I think he was, and that was a church for for gay people. It came out of the USA under the name of Metropolitan Community Church. But there was a Brisbane, there was a Brisbane -
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Place. [Hamish] Yeah. [Trevor] Place. It wasn't a a physical church I don't think, but there was a meeting place called the Metropolitan Community Church in Brisbane, and either he was a representative at that first festival. Place. [Hamish] Yeah. [Trevor] Place. It wasn't a a physical church I don't think, but there was a meeting place called the Metropolitan Community Church in Brisbane, and either he was a representative at that first festival.
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Yeah, I was coming out of a marriage. Yeah, I was coming out of a marriage.
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There were young guys there. I don't know what all their issues were, um, so I, I didn't get to spend time in workshops with all of them. There were young guys there. I don't know what all their issues were, um, so I, I didn't get to spend time in workshops with all of them.
12:32

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But there were lots of, lots of guys wondering where they were going. Ah,I think they tended to be younger guys there. I would have been about 45 I think at that stage. Um, I'd been married 20 years and, and I eventually came out as a gay man, and and my wife and I separated. But there were lots of, lots of guys wondering where they were going. Ah,I think they tended to be younger guys there. I would have been about 45 I think at that stage. Um, I'd been married 20 years and, and I eventually came out as a gay man, and and my wife and I separated.
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But I hadn't separated then. But I hadn't separated then.
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How did your wife find it? How did your wife find it?
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I think she thought, she saw it as a positive. Ah, but I was, I was finding what I needed. I ended up with that counsellor because he was the husband of her counsellor, and when we went as a couple to see her, see her, she said, Oh, I think you've got a few men's issues, she said in more or less in the first 10 minutes. I suggest you go and see Mal, my husband Mal, who ended up being my counsellor. I think she thought, she saw it as a positive. Ah, but I was, I was finding what I needed. I ended up with that counsellor because he was the husband of her counsellor, and when we went as a couple to see her, see her, she said, Oh, I think you've got a few men's issues, she said in more or less in the first 10 minutes. I suggest you go and see Mal, my husband Mal, who ended up being my counsellor.
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?Answer.? ?Answer.?
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I, ah, I suggest you go and see Mal, because you've got some men stuff to sort out first. [Hamish] The if - I reflect back on 1986, I think it was 1986. I mean some of the workshops, for example, were, uh, men and rape. I, ah, I suggest you go and see Mal, because you've got some men stuff to sort out first. [Hamish] The if - I reflect back on 1986, I think it was 1986. I mean some of the workshops, for example, were, uh, men and rape.
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Men and feminism. Men and feminism.
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And, and, and it was pretty wild. It was pretty, uh, unstructured. And I remember, you know, for instance that there was a disco we had on the big night, on the big Saturday night. And, you know, there were a lot of clothes off and there were a lot of guys exploring, I think, the bounds of sort of sexuality, and their identity back then. More so, I sense more so - I think it's still going on here, but it's perhaps a bit more structured or, or sort of more part of, sort of a broader platform now. And, and, and it was pretty wild. It was pretty, uh, unstructured. And I remember, you know, for instance that there was a disco we had on the big night, on the big Saturday night. And, you know, there were a lot of clothes off and there were a lot of guys exploring, I think, the bounds of sort of sexuality, and their identity back then. More so, I sense more so - I think it's still going on here, but it's perhaps a bit more structured or, or sort of more part of, sort of a broader platform now.
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It was a bit more out there, you know. I can remember at one point standing all around and all talking about our penises. I think we might have been doing like. [Trevor] I can recall a similar workshop at, at, at Sydney too. I think Sydney was very different that way. It may be - it may be the, the gay community in Sydney, the gay men were more It was a bit more out there, you know. I can remember at one point standing all around and all talking about our penises. I think we might have been doing like. [Trevor] I can recall a similar workshop at, at, at Sydney too. I think Sydney was very different that way. It may be - it may be the, the gay community in Sydney, the gay men were more
14:46

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open to, to gatherings like that. Um, it certainly wasn't a gay gathering, but the the guys who went were, were more open there. There - well, obviously there were a few of them in Brisbane, but open to, to gatherings like that. Um, it certainly wasn't a gay gathering, but the the guys who went were, were more open there. There - well, obviously there were a few of them in Brisbane, but
15:01

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I'd have trouble naming all, all, all the workshops that were there, but the one I, the one I remember was Kerry Cronin's workshop in which he, he had. I'd have trouble naming all, all, all the workshops that were there, but the one I, the one I remember was Kerry Cronin's workshop in which he, he had.
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He had a small room with lots of mattresses in there, and we were all jammed in there, and there was quite a bit of conflict in terms of guys being free to say what they wanted to the guy opposite. He had a small room with lots of mattresses in there, and we were all jammed in there, and there was quite a bit of conflict in terms of guys being free to say what they wanted to the guy opposite.
15:29

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Yeah, all in this closed space. And he - he's most probably got a word for that sort of, that sort of workshop, and it went all day too. It went before and after lunch. So I'm unaware of what, what - I'm unaware of what was happening, in the, in the other workshops. But Peter Howie, who's here, he'll know what, what we're I'm sure he'll have a memory of what sort of workshop he put on, and, and what other people put on. Yeah, all in this closed space. And he - he's most probably got a word for that sort of, that sort of workshop, and it went all day too. It went before and after lunch. So I'm unaware of what, what - I'm unaware of what was happening, in the, in the other workshops. But Peter Howie, who's here, he'll know what, what we're I'm sure he'll have a memory of what sort of workshop he put on, and, and what other people put on.
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[Hamish] And was it a defining moment for you being involved in that-- [Trevor] Oh, Oh yeah, yeah, it really was because. [Hamish] And was it a defining moment for you being involved in that-- [Trevor] Oh, Oh yeah, yeah, it really was because.
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I guess I found what I, I found something that I needed. I guess I found what I, I found something that I needed.
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And I, I didn't miss another men's gathering ever since. Except one when we were travelling around Australia, and whoever was in charge back here in the east changed the date and we, we got back after it had been on. But, yeah, it was a defining moment for, in my life. Yeah. [Hamish] So you're a veteran men's-- [Trevor] Born again. I call them born again. Men who have found what they, what they really need in this area. Nothing religious in the born again sense, but And I, I didn't miss another men's gathering ever since. Except one when we were travelling around Australia, and whoever was in charge back here in the east changed the date and we, we got back after it had been on. But, yeah, it was a defining moment for, in my life. Yeah. [Hamish] So you're a veteran men's-- [Trevor] Born again. I call them born again. Men who have found what they, what they really need in this area. Nothing religious in the born again sense, but
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Men who have found what they really want and - and don't let it go. Though there are many men that that I've encountered that they, they've really are always there. Hmm. [Hamish] And you've travelled with a lot of those men. Men who have found what they really want and - and don't let it go. Though there are many men that that I've encountered that they, they've really are always there. Hmm. [Hamish] And you've travelled with a lot of those men.
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Travel in in the sense of being there at men's gatherings or being at other functions, especially around, mainly around Brisbane, Brisbane, Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast. Yeah. [Hamish] I mean ever since I've been coming to Manshine, you, you and Robert have both been here. I mean, you're, you're very much part of the woodwork of the whole place. [Trevor] Yeah. [Hamish] What does it mean to you when you turn up here? Travel in in the sense of being there at men's gatherings or being at other functions, especially around, mainly around Brisbane, Brisbane, Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast. Yeah. [Hamish] I mean ever since I've been coming to Manshine, you, you and Robert have both been here. I mean, you're, you're very much part of the woodwork of the whole place. [Trevor] Yeah. [Hamish] What does it mean to you when you turn up here?
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Oh, well, right from the start I just found acceptance and I always find acceptance. Oh, well, right from the start I just found acceptance and I always find acceptance.
17:20

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I might have been slagged once in 25 years, but that was okay. I had tons of other guys to, to speak on my behalf. It wasn't, nothing physical. I don't know what I was even accused of. I might have been slagged once in 25 years, but that was okay. I had tons of other guys to, to speak on my behalf. It wasn't, nothing physical. I don't know what I was even accused of.
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Must have been speaking out of turn or something like that. But yeah, I've just found a lot, a lot of acceptance and a lot of support. Must have been speaking out of turn or something like that. But yeah, I've just found a lot, a lot of acceptance and a lot of support.
17:43

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And how's it gone for you being a gay male? And there - and at what point did you sort of turn? And how - I'm kind of curious to know, you know, what was the kind of the, the, the chemistry there or the, the, the intersection between, you know, going to these gatherings and you coming out as a gay male? And how's it gone for you being a gay male? And there - and at what point did you sort of turn? And how - I'm kind of curious to know, you know, what was the kind of the, the, the chemistry there or the, the, the intersection between, you know, going to these gatherings and you coming out as a gay male?
17:60

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I think, um, I'd been out to my wife. I think, um, I'd been out to my wife.
18:06

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All this time. All this time.
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And there, I can recall with the very first one. And there, I can recall with the very first one.
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I don't know what was going on for her, but but she did get short with me at one time uh in. I don't know what was going on for her, but but she did get short with me at one time uh in.
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That she, she thought I was putting too much energy into organising this. Um, almost like, are you still talking about that, or are you are you still putting energy into that? That she, she thought I was putting too much energy into organising this. Um, almost like, are you still talking about that, or are you are you still putting energy into that?
18:32

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And then she, she did say later. And then she, she did say later.
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She did say later I. She did say later I.
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I can - I always expected you were going to come home and say, um, I've found myself a man. It's all over. And that didn't ever happen. I can - I always expected you were going to come home and say, um, I've found myself a man. It's all over. And that didn't ever happen.
18:51

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We did separate, but that was, that was. We did separate, but that was, that was.
18:57

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In a, in a situation where? In a, in a situation where?
18:60

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My wife had, had often birched the idea of. My wife had, had often birched the idea of.
19:05

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you know, we should, we shouldn't be together or whatever. Something that meant that. And it wasn't until I could you know, we should, we shouldn't be together or whatever. Something that meant that. And it wasn't until I could
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Face that until I could actually articulate uh the question, Should we be talking about separating? Face that until I could actually articulate uh the question, Should we be talking about separating?
19:19

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That day, that day we, we made the decision to, to separate. [Hamish] And what was it like for you to step into the men's gatherings as a gay male as opposed to a male who was involved in a heterosexual relationship? Was that different for you? Did it give you a sort of different lens or a different That day, that day we, we made the decision to, to separate. [Hamish] And what was it like for you to step into the men's gatherings as a gay male as opposed to a male who was involved in a heterosexual relationship? Was that different for you? Did it give you a sort of different lens or a different
19:37

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Place here? Place here?
19:40

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I, I don't recall having, having made an issue of it. I can recall when I, one of the early Gold Coast men's gatherings. I, I don't recall having, having made an issue of it. I can recall when I, one of the early Gold Coast men's gatherings.
19:48

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Somebody stepped forward, um,  Somebody stepped forward, um, 
19:51

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And said I want to organise a And said I want to organise a
19:56

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A workshop for gay men. A workshop for gay men.
20:00

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But also inviting other men who are either gay curious, or just wanted to interact with gay men. But also inviting other men who are either gay curious, or just wanted to interact with gay men.
20:07

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Um, I can recall that, that happening. That was the first time I think it became, an issue um an issue to Um, I can recall that, that happening. That was the first time I think it became, an issue um an issue to
20:16

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For, for discussion, not for general discussion. For, for discussion, not for general discussion.
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And that well, and I was still. And that well, and I was still.
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I was still a married man then I was still a married man then
20:28

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Hmm. [Hamish] But there's a, there's a backdrop, isn't there? Because we're talking in the 1980's and the 1990's when it was still Queensland was a very conservative place. Hmm. [Hamish] But there's a, there's a backdrop, isn't there? Because we're talking in the 1980's and the 1990's when it was still Queensland was a very conservative place.
20:37

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We've gone, well by the time, by the time that the men's gatherings had started here. We've gone, well by the time, by the time that the men's gatherings had started here.
20:43

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Bianchi had gone. [Hamish] Had he? [Trevor] Yeah. I think he finished in '87 - '87. Yeah. So we're, we're talking about '93. [Hamish] Oh, right. [Trevor] Yeah. Yeah. So it'd been the, the Goss government for however long they lasted. Bianchi had gone. [Hamish] Had he? [Trevor] Yeah. I think he finished in '87 - '87. Yeah. So we're, we're talking about '93. [Hamish] Oh, right. [Trevor] Yeah. Yeah. So it'd been the, the Goss government for however long they lasted.
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I think we may have been into the Balbich government by then, yeah. [Hamish] Yeah. I think we may have been into the Balbich government by then, yeah. [Hamish] Yeah.
21:05

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So. So.
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I realised I've kind of steered you a little bit in, in a direction that was interesting for me. But, uh, I'll kind of we'll come back maybe to this. I realised I've kind of steered you a little bit in, in a direction that was interesting for me. But, uh, I'll kind of we'll come back maybe to this.
21:14

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[Hamish] You know what was, What sort of needs was? Was this, this gathering serving you? [Trevor] Hmm. I think it thinking back to to me. Well, what comes up? [Hamish] You know what was, What sort of needs was? Was this, this gathering serving you? [Trevor] Hmm. I think it thinking back to to me. Well, what comes up?
21:25

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most commonly is just support. most commonly is just support.
21:30

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And the workshop I ran the other day was called Absent Fathers, Lost Sons. And, and that, that turned out to be a, a big issue for me. Certainly came out during one or two counselling sessions with that counsellor I was referring to. And I had written my father off in my life, in the sense that he wasn't there. I'm not blaming him or anything like that. But there's he - he was in Sydney, we were being brought up in Brisbane, and my mother refused to talk about her relationship. And the workshop I ran the other day was called Absent Fathers, Lost Sons. And, and that, that turned out to be a, a big issue for me. Certainly came out during one or two counselling sessions with that counsellor I was referring to. And I had written my father off in my life, in the sense that he wasn't there. I'm not blaming him or anything like that. But there's he - he was in Sydney, we were being brought up in Brisbane, and my mother refused to talk about her relationship.
21:60

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Her relationships, plural. Her relationships, plural.
22:05

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But I, I wrote my father off in my life. And I guess these, these men that I was meeting at, the men's gatherings were just so open that there was, um, they were filling in that need for me for male support. I wasn't getting it at work. The guys at work But I, I wrote my father off in my life. And I guess these, these men that I was meeting at, the men's gatherings were just so open that there was, um, they were filling in that need for me for male support. I wasn't getting it at work. The guys at work
22:23

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There were guys that I, that I would have liked to have come along to the men's gatherings, but I, I got almost none of them along. I used to put the notice up in the. There were guys that I, that I would have liked to have come along to the men's gatherings, but I, I got almost none of them along. I used to put the notice up in the.
22:35

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In a noticeboard at TAFE, uh, and we got James the cook. Uh he, he, he was one of our TAFE students. He came along, and one other students came along. But, uh, none of the staff came along, and I guess there were a little bit. In a noticeboard at TAFE, uh, and we got James the cook. Uh he, he, he was one of our TAFE students. He came along, and one other students came along. But, uh, none of the staff came along, and I guess there were a little bit.
22:52

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I guess that they were normal in the sense that, um, the men's gatherings are something that most men won't go anywhere near. There's a lot of fear. I guess that they were normal in the sense that, um, the men's gatherings are something that most men won't go anywhere near. There's a lot of fear.
23:02

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Fear, Fear,
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Prejudice. Prejudice.
23:05

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Well, I, I think it's more fear. I reckon I've after all this time when I've looked at the numbers that have attended. Well, I, I think it's more fear. I reckon I've after all this time when I've looked at the numbers that have attended.
23:13

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Over 20 years, my guess is 99.9% of men have never been to a men's festival. Uh so we're dealing with less than 1 1/2 thousand of men have got the courage. It may be prejudice, it may be many things, but my gut feeling is, it's fear. Uh and going to the football or going fishing are much safer, uh active ways of interacting with other men than, than coming here to something that's completely unknown. Over 20 years, my guess is 99.9% of men have never been to a men's festival. Uh so we're dealing with less than 1 1/2 thousand of men have got the courage. It may be prejudice, it may be many things, but my gut feeling is, it's fear. Uh and going to the football or going fishing are much safer, uh active ways of interacting with other men than, than coming here to something that's completely unknown.
23:45

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Now what's been the big achievements here, Trev? Now what's been the big achievements here, Trev?
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What's, what's, what's really come out of the last 25 years of this this process? What, what do you think have been the the goals that have been achieved? [Trevor] For me, for me, I think that what I see is the big achievement is that it's been continuous. There must have been a need if, if every year, ah, since 1992 there has been someone prepared to step forward and say I will organise the next one, or I will be on the committee for the next one, and it has always happened. It is never What's, what's, what's really come out of the last 25 years of this this process? What, what do you think have been the the goals that have been achieved? [Trevor] For me, for me, I think that what I see is the big achievement is that it's been continuous. There must have been a need if, if every year, ah, since 1992 there has been someone prepared to step forward and say I will organise the next one, or I will be on the committee for the next one, and it has always happened. It is never
24:18

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Never fail. Sometimes there's a bit of a pause. But generally the, in that final circle, when the men step up, step, someone step is being asked to step forward and say who will organise the next one. Who wants to be on the committee for the next run? The pause often. Sometimes it's a millisecond, sometimes it goes 10 seconds. One time it may have gone 40 seconds. And when there's all this tension and suddenly someone steps forward, [Hamish] it's one of those pregnant Never fail. Sometimes there's a bit of a pause. But generally the, in that final circle, when the men step up, step, someone step is being asked to step forward and say who will organise the next one. Who wants to be on the committee for the next run? The pause often. Sometimes it's a millisecond, sometimes it goes 10 seconds. One time it may have gone 40 seconds. And when there's all this tension and suddenly someone steps forward, [Hamish] it's one of those pregnant
24:48

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Pregnant moments isn't there? Same with the, the, the heart circle. There's that pregnant moment. Pregnant moments isn't there? Same with the, the, the heart circle. There's that pregnant moment.
24:54

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[Trevor] It is that, yeah. [Hamish] Beautiful isn't it? [Trevor] And I guess one thing I've learned is to, to trust, to trust the tension. At times people have tried to rally up support and say, well, come on you guys, someone has to step forward. And fairly quickly that, that guy is, is maybe not politely but asked to desist from speaking, allow the tension to, to build. And in that tension, either a millisecond or 40 seconds, someone always steps forward. [Trevor] It is that, yeah. [Hamish] Beautiful isn't it? [Trevor] And I guess one thing I've learned is to, to trust, to trust the tension. At times people have tried to rally up support and say, well, come on you guys, someone has to step forward. And fairly quickly that, that guy is, is maybe not politely but asked to desist from speaking, allow the tension to, to build. And in that tension, either a millisecond or 40 seconds, someone always steps forward.
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And often they say, I didn't know I was going to do it. [Hamish] Yeah. And have you been involved in a committee, Trevor? [Trevor] I have. But the committee of two that did the first one. And often they say, I didn't know I was going to do it. [Hamish] Yeah. And have you been involved in a committee, Trevor? [Trevor] I have. But the committee of two that did the first one.
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There was another committee when Tom Laffin said ohh, I know my mate Trevor. We'll, we'll we'll give me a hand on this. And and the feeling for Tom was such that yes I did. Uh I've been on a couple of. There was another committee when Tom Laffin said ohh, I know my mate Trevor. We'll, we'll we'll give me a hand on this. And and the feeling for Tom was such that yes I did. Uh I've been on a couple of.
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small committees very early before before the the small committees very early before before the the
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Complicated requirements. Ah, before the requirements, requirements became more complicated. Complicated requirements. Ah, before the requirements, requirements became more complicated.
26:05

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Always on the easy committees. At times now I think, oh, I don't think, I don't think they'd want me on their committee now. [Hamish] It's a tight ship now. [Trevor] Yeah. [Laughter] [Hamish] Now you've got down here, disappointments over the past 20 years. What do you think? [Trevor] Ah, the first one that comes to mind is Always on the easy committees. At times now I think, oh, I don't think, I don't think they'd want me on their committee now. [Hamish] It's a tight ship now. [Trevor] Yeah. [Laughter] [Hamish] Now you've got down here, disappointments over the past 20 years. What do you think? [Trevor] Ah, the first one that comes to mind is
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a student of mine was called Peter Beattie, when I was at Atherton High School teaching mathematics. He was, he was in grade 11. So I've known him since 19. a student of mine was called Peter Beattie, when I was at Atherton High School teaching mathematics. He was, he was in grade 11. So I've known him since 19.
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1969. Um - 1969. Um -
26:41

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And then, when he became Premier, I'd followed his life for, for, from a distance, for a while, and and. And then, when he became Premier, I'd followed his life for, for, from a distance, for a while, and and.
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He'd been Health Minister in the, in the. He'd been Health Minister in the, in the.
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[Hamish] Goss? [Trevor] Goss government. So he knew what the issues were, and then he was in opposition. [Hamish] Goss? [Trevor] Goss government. So he knew what the issues were, and then he was in opposition.
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And he wrote, he wrote a letter two weeks before he became Premier to me as, as Secretary of Men's Helpline. And I've still got the letter. And it says, we, we are particularly aware of the lack of And he wrote, he wrote a letter two weeks before he became Premier to me as, as Secretary of Men's Helpline. And I've still got the letter. And it says, we, we are particularly aware of the lack of
27:16

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Lack of services for the support of men in need. I thought, ohh, we've made it, we've made it. They're gonna be elected there. They'll, they'll be dead certs to be elected. We've got a supporter from right at the very top. Lack of services for the support of men in need. I thought, ohh, we've made it, we've made it. They're gonna be elected there. They'll, they'll be dead certs to be elected. We've got a supporter from right at the very top.
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[Hamish] And it didn't happen. [Trevor] And, and we got zero support. We got zero support. [Hamish] So they were elected? [Trevor] They were elected. Anna Bligh was Communities Minister, Wendy Edmond was Health Minister. [Hamish] And it didn't happen. [Trevor] And, and we got zero support. We got zero support. [Hamish] So they were elected? [Trevor] They were elected. Anna Bligh was Communities Minister, Wendy Edmond was Health Minister.
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They all, they all said they they know the problem but we got 0 support. [Hamish] What is the problem? They all, they all said they they know the problem but we got 0 support. [Hamish] What is the problem?
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The problem was that I, I don't know. My interpretation is  The problem was that I, I don't know. My interpretation is 
27:58

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they saw that, uh, they needed to continue to support women's services. Which they did. They had Women's Health. they saw that, uh, they needed to continue to support women's services. Which they did. They had Women's Health.
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Woman's what? There was a, a section within the health department. Woman's what? There was a, a section within the health department.
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Called Women's Health Queensland Wide. There was a section within the Communities Department called Woman's Info Link. Both of those had telephone services that operated 9 to 5, five days a week. So we thought, oh well, all we have to do is get them to, uh, to keep their assurances. Called Women's Health Queensland Wide. There was a section within the Communities Department called Woman's Info Link. Both of those had telephone services that operated 9 to 5, five days a week. So we thought, oh well, all we have to do is get them to, uh, to keep their assurances.
28:36

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And when Men's Helpline had been going four years, and at that stage the Labour government got in. And when Men's Helpline had been going four years, and at that stage the Labour government got in.
28:44

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We thought, ohh, we're we're, we're a shoe in here. We just have to say where's the where's the equity? We don't need to take any money off the women's services. That's still important. But there is a there's, another group out there and Peter Beatty has put it in writing. We are particularly aware of the lack of services. We thought, ohh, we're we're, we're a shoe in here. We just have to say where's the where's the equity? We don't need to take any money off the women's services. That's still important. But there is a there's, another group out there and Peter Beatty has put it in writing. We are particularly aware of the lack of services.
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But nothing happened. But nothing happened.
29:05

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[Hamish] Services for what? Where's the hole? What's the need? [Trevor] Well, in his letter the sentence finishes, "we are particularly aware of the lack of services for men in need." So there was that, that area. Ah, in the same letter he said we will. [Hamish] Services for what? Where's the hole? What's the need? [Trevor] Well, in his letter the sentence finishes, "we are particularly aware of the lack of services for men in need." So there was that, that area. Ah, in the same letter he said we will.
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Labour will prepare and implement measures for an assault on ill health among men, recognising men suffer worse health outcomes than women in almost every category of illness and injury. Labour will prepare and implement measures for an assault on ill health among men, recognising men suffer worse health outcomes than women in almost every category of illness and injury.
29:37

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And Wendy Edmond, who became Health Minister eventually, she eventually wrote to me as secretary of Men's Helpline. And she said, well, I don't think we need to do anything because Men's Helpline. And Wendy Edmond, who became Health Minister eventually, she eventually wrote to me as secretary of Men's Helpline. And she said, well, I don't think we need to do anything because Men's Helpline.
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A couple of volunteers on the, on the telephone 24 hours a day. A couple of volunteers on the, on the telephone 24 hours a day.
29:54

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That was enough she thought, compared with That was enough she thought, compared with
29:57

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Compared with a service called a Woman's Health, Queensland wide, which went to every, every part of Queensland. [Hamish] So what was men's healthline helpline? [Trevor] Men's helpline was just a telephone service that we set up at that. Compared with a service called a Woman's Health, Queensland wide, which went to every, every part of Queensland. [Hamish] So what was men's healthline helpline? [Trevor] Men's helpline was just a telephone service that we set up at that.
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that early Sunshine Coast men's festival. that early Sunshine Coast men's festival.
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We said - well, someone stepped forward, someone stepped forward and said well, I think we - oh, well I'd like to run a workshop where we consider setting up a men's centre for Brisbane and maybe a phone line. We said - well, someone stepped forward, someone stepped forward and said well, I think we - oh, well I'd like to run a workshop where we consider setting up a men's centre for Brisbane and maybe a phone line.
30:30

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Only four people turned up at that workshop, uh so nothing was really resolved there other than to meet at at that counsellor's office in Paddington on the next Wednesday. And we met there and. Only four people turned up at that workshop, uh so nothing was really resolved there other than to meet at at that counsellor's office in Paddington on the next Wednesday. And we met there and.
30:44

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Four different guys turned up, a few of the same, but four guys turned up and we said, well, Four different guys turned up, a few of the same, but four guys turned up and we said, well,
30:51

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We haven't got much time that the telephone book, if you remember what a telephone book looks like. The telephone book is closing off, ah, at the end of this month. We need to get ourselves organised and four of us put in $200.00 each. And so he said, oh, that's all we need to get registered for a phone number. Oh, what are we going to call it? We haven't got much time that the telephone book, if you remember what a telephone book looks like. The telephone book is closing off, ah, at the end of this month. We need to get ourselves organised and four of us put in $200.00 each. And so he said, oh, that's all we need to get registered for a phone number. Oh, what are we going to call it?
31:11

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We said, oh, Men's Helpline that's that's a that's a good name. So that was the name that was chosen, and we were on the air. We were on the air within We said, oh, Men's Helpline that's that's a that's a good name. So that was the name that was chosen, and we were on the air. We were on the air within
31:22

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within a month of that. within a month of that.
31:24

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Before the - I think the 1st of June, the 1st of June. Before the - I think the 1st of June, the 1st of June.
31:29

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Warren Farrell, Warren Farrell, The American was in town publicizing his book "The Myth of Male Power". Warren Farrell, Warren Farrell, The American was in town publicizing his book "The Myth of Male Power".
31:36

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But counsellor and Warren Farrell were on ABC Radio on that day, and they said, well, besides Warren's book, we'd like to say, well, there's a, a Men's Helpline just been set up for But counsellor and Warren Farrell were on ABC Radio on that day, and they said, well, besides Warren's book, we'd like to say, well, there's a, a Men's Helpline just been set up for
31:49

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For Brisbane, effectively for Queensland. For Brisbane, effectively for Queensland.
31:53

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Um, and we took our first call that day in response to that radio program on the 1st of June. [Hamish] So you were taking calls, you were fielding them? [Trevor] Initially, nobody knew - the phone book wasn't out, but uh, some counselling services had heard this interview, and they knew, they got the number. Uh, and we, we, we, we took phone calls, people would just phone up and. Um, and we took our first call that day in response to that radio program on the 1st of June. [Hamish] So you were taking calls, you were fielding them? [Trevor] Initially, nobody knew - the phone book wasn't out, but uh, some counselling services had heard this interview, and they knew, they got the number. Uh, and we, we, we, we took phone calls, people would just phone up and.
32:19

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They would be answered by an answering service. So they were answered 24 hours a day. We had rosters. We set up rosters, um, so someone was always there to take the call from the answering service and. They would be answered by an answering service. So they were answered 24 hours a day. We had rosters. We set up rosters, um, so someone was always there to take the call from the answering service and.
32:37

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and this answering service would if, if, if you phoned up the Men's Helpline, you may be coy, and you may say my name is George, um, but so long as you didn't lie about your phone number, and this answering service would if, if, if you phoned up the Men's Helpline, you may be coy, and you may say my name is George, um, but so long as you didn't lie about your phone number,
32:50

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we would phone you back on the phone number that was given and say George, did you phone Men's Helpline? If you said yes, we'd say, well, how can we help? [Hamish] And how busy was it? [Trevor] Oh, initially, initially we're only getting a few calls because not many people knew. But as soon as the phone book came out in September we would phone you back on the phone number that was given and say George, did you phone Men's Helpline? If you said yes, we'd say, well, how can we help? [Hamish] And how busy was it? [Trevor] Oh, initially, initially we're only getting a few calls because not many people knew. But as soon as the phone book came out in September
33:11

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We were listed there alphabetically on uh, on the Community Services page. We were listed there alphabetically on uh, on the Community Services page.
33:17

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And when Lifeline got over, overloaded, which they I guess they often did, next under Lifeline was M for Men's Helpline. We got those calls. [Hamish] And how busy? [Trevor] We ended up having about 10 calls, 10 calls a day. But we had, we had uh 10 calls a day for six years, comes out to 18,000 calls. And when Lifeline got over, overloaded, which they I guess they often did, next under Lifeline was M for Men's Helpline. We got those calls. [Hamish] And how busy? [Trevor] We ended up having about 10 calls, 10 calls a day. But we had, we had uh 10 calls a day for six years, comes out to 18,000 calls.
33:42

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And we, we didn't miss a call. We always had somebody there. And we, we didn't miss a call. We always had somebody there.
33:47

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We were, we were roster 3 daytime men and one guy to take the evening calls. Not many calls in the evening from 6:00 PM to 6:00 AM but they were often, they were usually pretty desperate calls in the evening. [Hamish] So. So what sort of role would you say you occupy now within men's well-being and Manshine the gatherings. What sort of where would you see yourself placed? We were, we were roster 3 daytime men and one guy to take the evening calls. Not many calls in the evening from 6:00 PM to 6:00 AM but they were often, they were usually pretty desperate calls in the evening. [Hamish] So. So what sort of role would you say you occupy now within men's well-being and Manshine the gatherings. What sort of where would you see yourself placed?
34:12

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I'm a bit of a furniture, I think. Um, I'm always there. I'm a bit of a furniture, I think. Um, I'm always there.
34:20

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I haven't taken on a role of elder, I suppose oh I yeah, I I take almost history. I don't like that title of historian, but because I've been there since the start, historian in that sense. I've seen most of it. So I don't, I don't remember at all. [Hamish] And you haven't taken on the role of an elder. Why not? I haven't taken on a role of elder, I suppose oh I yeah, I I take almost history. I don't like that title of historian, but because I've been there since the start, historian in that sense. I've seen most of it. So I don't, I don't remember at all. [Hamish] And you haven't taken on the role of an elder. Why not?
34:42

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Yeah, I have trouble answering that, um, Yeah, I have trouble answering that, um,
34:47

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In the initial process, uh there was a voting, someone introduced the idea of elder and there was a, a set of, a set of. In the initial process, uh there was a voting, someone introduced the idea of elder and there was a, a set of, a set of.
34:59

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questions. There was a voting system. Um, and I was voted yes, but when it came to do you accept? Uh, my response was not yet, and still been not yet. So I, I felt there's still, there's still um questions. There was a voting system. Um, and I was voted yes, but when it came to do you accept? Uh, my response was not yet, and still been not yet. So I, I felt there's still, there's still um
35:17

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The devil in me that wasn't going to be constrained by The devil in me that wasn't going to be constrained by
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regulation, not so much regulations as regulation, not so much regulations as
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and what, what, what, what, what we don't do. and what, what, what, what, what we don't do.
35:28

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I guess. [Hamish] We had a, an interview here before with, um, I guess. [Hamish] We had a, an interview here before with, um,
35:33

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Mike, me and, and Tony, Tony Spear, and and they were both talking about stepping up to becoming elders. And one of the things that both of them sort of agreed on was that, Gee, you know, once you've sort of stepped up to be an Elder, you know, there's all this obligation or a sense of responsibility. And anyway, I still think of myself as a young guy who can have fun and run around like a child. And the sense that you sort of had to sort of, you know, you were washed up a little bit. Mike, me and, and Tony, Tony Spear, and and they were both talking about stepping up to becoming elders. And one of the things that both of them sort of agreed on was that, Gee, you know, once you've sort of stepped up to be an Elder, you know, there's all this obligation or a sense of responsibility. And anyway, I still think of myself as a young guy who can have fun and run around like a child. And the sense that you sort of had to sort of, you know, you were washed up a little bit.
35:59

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And as soon as you say that, what reminds me, what comes to mind for me was. And as soon as you say that, what reminds me, what comes to mind for me was.
36:06

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Was the year of the, the opening of the year of the Volunteer where Was the year of the, the opening of the year of the Volunteer where
36:14

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On the, On the stage in the gardens, whatever that garden stage is called in the Botanic Gardens in the city, The year was being opened by Anna Bligh as communities minister. On the, On the stage in the gardens, whatever that garden stage is called in the Botanic Gardens in the city, The year was being opened by Anna Bligh as communities minister.
36:28

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and I went along for the opening of that. We just closed down Men's Helpline for lack of support a couple of months before that. So it's still, it was still more than just bubbling in my system. and I went along for the opening of that. We just closed down Men's Helpline for lack of support a couple of months before that. So it's still, it was still more than just bubbling in my system.
36:42

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Well, no, there's not much security on that stage. Um, I reckon Peter Beattie will step up first. I reckon he will speak first because he's Premier, and sitting next to him is Anna Bligh. I reckon her as Well, no, there's not much security on that stage. Um, I reckon Peter Beattie will step up first. I reckon he will speak first because he's Premier, and sitting next to him is Anna Bligh. I reckon her as
36:56

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Minister for Communities will speak second, and then there's that that woman there who's, who's leading the the year of the Minister for Communities will speak second, and then there's that that woman there who's, who's leading the the year of the
37:06

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what - ah, the Year of the Volunteer? what - ah, the Year of the Volunteer?
37:09

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So I thought, oh would I have the guts, after Peter Beattie speaks and Anna Bligh's seat becomes vacant, would I have the guts to jump up on stage and sit next to my ex, ex-student Peter Beattie and remind him that, I just happened to be carrying a copy of that letter he sent me two years earlier saying what he would do So I thought, oh would I have the guts, after Peter Beattie speaks and Anna Bligh's seat becomes vacant, would I have the guts to jump up on stage and sit next to my ex, ex-student Peter Beattie and remind him that, I just happened to be carrying a copy of that letter he sent me two years earlier saying what he would do
37:32

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And. And.
37:33

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And what was in my mind was I thought, well, how could I tell the guys back back at the men's, the men's group, that I nearly did. So I thought, bugger it. And I did that. And then no security, I sat next to him and he recognised me and he was very friendly. And I showed him the letter. And his response was, he leaned forward - Anna Bligh eventually, when the other woman stood up Anna Bligh was able to take her seat because I'd taken Anna Bligh's seat, she said, And what was in my mind was I thought, well, how could I tell the guys back back at the men's, the men's group, that I nearly did. So I thought, bugger it. And I did that. And then no security, I sat next to him and he recognised me and he was very friendly. And I showed him the letter. And his response was, he leaned forward - Anna Bligh eventually, when the other woman stood up Anna Bligh was able to take her seat because I'd taken Anna Bligh's seat, she said,
38:03

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Oh, he said to her, "didn't we fix this?" And she leaned back and said, Oh, he said to her, "didn't we fix this?" And she leaned back and said,
38:08

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"You didn't put in an application for funding for the domestic violence line." And my response was, "we don't get many domestic violence calls. I suspect they go to a different number." "You didn't put in an application for funding for the domestic violence line." And my response was, "we don't get many domestic violence calls. I suspect they go to a different number."
38:21

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And, and he said, "well, we'll look at it again." But within a week we had a, we had another letter saying, we had another letter saying, no, we're we're we're not going to. You've been unsuccessful. [Hamish] Trev, I think we're just really touching the top of a very big interesting iceberg here with all the history and all the stories and connections that you've got. I think what we've got here is a really interesting little snapshot though of part of this journey, which is quite a historic journey at this stage. So I would really encourage you And, and he said, "well, we'll look at it again." But within a week we had a, we had another letter saying, we had another letter saying, no, we're we're we're not going to. You've been unsuccessful. [Hamish] Trev, I think we're just really touching the top of a very big interesting iceberg here with all the history and all the stories and connections that you've got. I think what we've got here is a really interesting little snapshot though of part of this journey, which is quite a historic journey at this stage. So I would really encourage you
38:52

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In next to the next few gatherings hopefully we could do some more recordings, is invite other people who have got some sort of common ground with you, like Peter Howie for example, to kind of go back and re, re sort of visit some of these places with with recordings. I think it's very useful. But I think we should finish now because we've reached our 40 minutes. Are you comfortable? Is there anything else you'd like to say? [Trevor] No, I'm - I'm happy with that I'll I'll just add this one of the guys says, well, In next to the next few gatherings hopefully we could do some more recordings, is invite other people who have got some sort of common ground with you, like Peter Howie for example, to kind of go back and re, re sort of visit some of these places with with recordings. I think it's very useful. But I think we should finish now because we've reached our 40 minutes. Are you comfortable? Is there anything else you'd like to say? [Trevor] No, I'm - I'm happy with that I'll I'll just add this one of the guys says, well,
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He can recall being there. He was a key. This is Tom Laffin. He was a a key organiser there. He was the guy with the with the black pen and the whiteboard on the opening night. He said, yeah, I don't remember all the detail that that you're referring to. And I know I I forget stuff too. So I'm getting, I'm almost 70, I'm forgetting stuff too. So we'll have to get some guys with good memories as well. Thank you very much. He can recall being there. He was a key. This is Tom Laffin. He was a a key organiser there. He was the guy with the with the black pen and the whiteboard on the opening night. He said, yeah, I don't remember all the detail that that you're referring to. And I know I I forget stuff too. So I'm getting, I'm almost 70, I'm forgetting stuff too. So we'll have to get some guys with good memories as well. Thank you very much.