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0:02

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Hello, my name is Hamish Sewell and I'm talking with Steve Smythe and we're here at Manshine 2016 here at the beautiful Somerset camp. Hello, my name is Hamish Sewell and I'm talking with Steve Smythe and we're here at Manshine 2016 here at the beautiful Somerset camp.
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And Steve, you've had a a bit of a, a tough night last night haven't you? [Steve] Ohh, yes I did. I did. I had a a rather sleepless night. So I'm I'm uh probably not firing on all four cylinders but yet I'm here and and I'm very eager. Eager. [Hamish] Yeah. Now I know we want to talk about your granddad. That's that's where we want to go to with this discussion isn't it [Steve] More of my father-in-law, the father-in-law that I have that we my wife's father. Uh but he is he would be a grandfather. And Steve, you've had a a bit of a, a tough night last night haven't you? [Steve] Ohh, yes I did. I did. I had a a rather sleepless night. So I'm I'm uh probably not firing on all four cylinders but yet I'm here and and I'm very eager. Eager. [Hamish] Yeah. Now I know we want to talk about your granddad. That's that's where we want to go to with this discussion isn't it [Steve] More of my father-in-law, the father-in-law that I have that we my wife's father. Uh but he is he would be a grandfather.
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But uh I figure for me, as I never knew my grandfather. But uh I figure for me, as I never knew my grandfather.
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Ohh yeah. [Hamish] So what is it that prompted you to wanna to talk about this Steve? [Steve] It's yeah, I think he has an amazing story. Uh it's uh Ohh yeah. [Hamish] So what is it that prompted you to wanna to talk about this Steve? [Steve] It's yeah, I think he has an amazing story. Uh it's uh
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 I think one of the reasons why.  I think one of the reasons why.
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I, I, wanted to to to to speak this stories because I think. I, I, wanted to to to to speak this stories because I think.
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It's something that the this generation needs to know, uh needs to know what these people went through. He was a survivor of the Holocaust in Poland uh It's something that the this generation needs to know, uh needs to know what these people went through. He was a survivor of the Holocaust in Poland uh
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He went through some pretty horrible things in concentration camps. But to speak to him, he doesn't hate the Germans, He doesn't hate what happened. He hates, he hates the situation. He hates that he lost his family. He doesn't hate anybody in particular. And to me, it was just such a life lesson that I hate people who cut me off on the road. But in perspective uh that's, yeah, it's totally different. So I, I want to learn from this guy. I want to learn how he got to, where he got. He went through some pretty horrible things in concentration camps. But to speak to him, he doesn't hate the Germans, He doesn't hate what happened. He hates, he hates the situation. He hates that he lost his family. He doesn't hate anybody in particular. And to me, it was just such a life lesson that I hate people who cut me off on the road. But in perspective uh that's, yeah, it's totally different. So I, I want to learn from this guy. I want to learn how he got to, where he got.
1:47

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Yeah. [Hamish] And it's it's interesting that the context that we began this conversation about your father-in-law was at a workshop last year. I think it was a storytelling workshop. [Steve] It was. Yeah. Yeah. [Hamish] And that was when I think you first explored this idea, maybe recording something around this. [Steve] That's right. I do remember that there was a, I think it was telling your story. I think it was what it was. And I just sort of naturally dropped into that and it, it resonated with everybody there. I do remember that, [Hamish] Yes. Yeah. [Hamish] And it's it's interesting that the context that we began this conversation about your father-in-law was at a workshop last year. I think it was a storytelling workshop. [Steve] It was. Yeah. Yeah. [Hamish] And that was when I think you first explored this idea, maybe recording something around this. [Steve] That's right. I do remember that there was a, I think it was telling your story. I think it was what it was. And I just sort of naturally dropped into that and it, it resonated with everybody there. I do remember that, [Hamish] Yes.
2:17

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[Hamish] So where do we begin the story with? With your father-in-law? [Steve] Uh well I, I met him 25 years ago uh [Hamish] So where do we begin the story with? With your father-in-law? [Steve] Uh well I, I met him 25 years ago uh
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And all I knew about him was that he was a survivor. That's all I learned when I got there. And all I knew about him was that he was a survivor. That's all I learned when I got there.
2:33

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Walked in the house not knowing what to expect. I guess I at that time my wife was just my girlfriend and of course it was a nervous walk in and here this little bubbly guy come bouncing out of the of the back of the house and integrate me and pushing his wife in a wheelchair who had uh pretty severe MS (multiplescelorsis). Walked in the house not knowing what to expect. I guess I at that time my wife was just my girlfriend and of course it was a nervous walk in and here this little bubbly guy come bouncing out of the of the back of the house and integrate me and pushing his wife in a wheelchair who had uh pretty severe MS (multiplescelorsis).
2:54

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Yeah, and here is a man who I could say within about 5 minutes was devoting his entire life to caring for his wife, who he was very devoted to, and his children. Yeah, and here is a man who I could say within about 5 minutes was devoting his entire life to caring for his wife, who he was very devoted to, and his children.
3:07

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And the story of, of where he came from at that point was uh, I knew very little of it. And the story of, of where he came from at that point was uh, I knew very little of it.
3:14

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We learned over the next couple of years, it took some time. It wasn't sort of open straight away of where he came from. We learned over the next couple of years, it took some time. It wasn't sort of open straight away of where he came from.
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Not. Not.
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Just to let you know him and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of stuff, but I have an immense respect for what he is, uh what he came from and and what he became and how he fought through, that uh to be a devoted father and, and, and basically he started over, his, his name disappeared. So he started over and started a new family, and I think that's what his objective was, uh although he's a very simple man uh he. Just to let you know him and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of stuff, but I have an immense respect for what he is, uh what he came from and and what he became and how he fought through, that uh to be a devoted father and, and, and basically he started over, his, his name disappeared. So he started over and started a new family, and I think that's what his objective was, uh although he's a very simple man uh he.
3:51

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He's never really quite said that, but he has opened up to me a couple of times. He's never really quite said that, but he has opened up to me a couple of times.
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Just on some of the things he went through, but uh Just on some of the things he went through, but uh
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The fact that we don't get on together uh The fact that we don't get on together uh
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He is unusual because I think we both have a deep respect for each other. Uh it's an interesting situation. [Hamish] So what's his name? [Steve] His name is Zelik, Zelik Burkett and he changed the spelling of his name when he came to Australia because it was very Polish and very hard to pronounce. He is unusual because I think we both have a deep respect for each other. Uh it's an interesting situation. [Hamish] So what's his name? [Steve] His name is Zelik, Zelik Burkett and he changed the spelling of his name when he came to Australia because it was very Polish and very hard to pronounce.
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He then changed his uh age. He then changed his uh age.
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Because there was a cut off at 18 to get into Australia. So he was, I think he was a little bit older than that. So he fudged that one a little bit. Yeah. But because there was no records, uh he could have basically been nominated anything, which is a pattern he's repeated with his children. He got them all into school early by fudging their their birthdays [Laughter] Because there was a cut off at 18 to get into Australia. So he was, I think he was a little bit older than that. So he fudged that one a little bit. Yeah. But because there was no records, uh he could have basically been nominated anything, which is a pattern he's repeated with his children. He got them all into school early by fudging their their birthdays [Laughter]
4:46

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It, it seems to work very well for him, yeah, yeah. [Hamish] And and he, he, he came in. It, it seems to work very well for him, yeah, yeah. [Hamish] And and he, he, he came in.
4:53

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Saying that he was under the age of 18, [Steve] he did and that he was. There was a group called the Burkenbolt Boys. They all came from the Burkenbolt camp. They were made up of German and Polish. I think there was a couple of French. They were orphaned, so they had no place to go. So around the world they sent out an SOS to Jewish families and they looked for sponsorship so a Jewish family could sponsor them. The governments weren't doing this. This was all done through communities that they were allowing them to come in as long as there was a sponsor family. Saying that he was under the age of 18, [Steve] he did and that he was. There was a group called the Burkenbolt Boys. They all came from the Burkenbolt camp. They were made up of German and Polish. I think there was a couple of French. They were orphaned, so they had no place to go. So around the world they sent out an SOS to Jewish families and they looked for sponsorship so a Jewish family could sponsor them. The governments weren't doing this. This was all done through communities that they were allowing them to come in as long as there was a sponsor family.
5:25

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That would look after them uh and that's how he got in. He came over with a group of. That would look after them uh and that's how he got in. He came over with a group of.
5:30

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I think it was 20, 20 boys and they were called the Burkenbolt Boys. I think I mentioned that they were. They remained close for the first 10 years, uh and as they got married of course they drifted. But I did meet two or three of them on the Gold Coast uh that had visited Zelik over times and uh I think it was 20, 20 boys and they were called the Burkenbolt Boys. I think I mentioned that they were. They remained close for the first 10 years, uh and as they got married of course they drifted. But I did meet two or three of them on the Gold Coast uh that had visited Zelik over times and uh
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Although I wasn't Privy to their complete conversations because a lot of it would go into Yiddish uh Although I wasn't Privy to their complete conversations because a lot of it would go into Yiddish uh
5:56

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You could tell there was times that there were items that were brought up that would be uh very real to all of them. It would bring up a sombre mode. I was very careful not to speak much more more, mostly to listen, uh but which is great, the fact that they really wanted to know about me. You could tell there was times that there were items that were brought up that would be uh very real to all of them. It would bring up a sombre mode. I was very careful not to speak much more more, mostly to listen, uh but which is great, the fact that they really wanted to know about me.
6:12

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They'd had their life. They didn't really want to talk about it at that point. They really wanted to know what I was doing, more importantly, what I was going to be doing with Zelik's daughter Very protective group of people, so. They'd had their life. They didn't really want to talk about it at that point. They really wanted to know what I was doing, more importantly, what I was going to be doing with Zelik's daughter Very protective group of people, so.
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That must have been a real honor. That must have been a real honor.
6:25

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It was. At the time. I was younger than I am now. I didn't come from that kind of background where I had that sort of parental support, so I kind of thought that they were being a little bit overpowering and I thought they were controlling in a way. Now that I think back on it, no, they weren't. They were genuinely interested and I uh It was. At the time. I was younger than I am now. I didn't come from that kind of background where I had that sort of parental support, so I kind of thought that they were being a little bit overpowering and I thought they were controlling in a way. Now that I think back on it, no, they weren't. They were genuinely interested and I uh
6:47

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Yeah, I, I, I do now feel honored that they wanted to know, you know, where I came from and what I did. They were all very interested in my military past uh Yeah, I, I, I do now feel honored that they wanted to know, you know, where I came from and what I did. They were all very interested in my military past uh
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I only it spent six years in the military, but for some reason this was, this to them, that was just. I only it spent six years in the military, but for some reason this was, this to them, that was just.
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It was a good thing for a young man to do, so I, I gained a few points straight up, even though I had long hair and a beard at the time. And they all sort of. It was a good thing for a young man to do, so I, I gained a few points straight up, even though I had long hair and a beard at the time. And they all sort of.
7:09

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Kind of casually asked me a few questions. I think they were a little bit unsure when they met me, but within a few weeks I think they were OK. [Steve] Did you have your earring? [Hamish] I had uh three earrings, I remember that, big ones, uh dangly ones, and I had lots of bangles on my arms, used to dress in black completely. Uh I think in the Jewish community I would have stood out uh extremely. Uh  didn't fit into any of the moulds which brought out the rebel in a lot of older the Jewish people, they came over to meet me. Kind of casually asked me a few questions. I think they were a little bit unsure when they met me, but within a few weeks I think they were OK. [Steve] Did you have your earring? [Hamish] I had uh three earrings, I remember that, big ones, uh dangly ones, and I had lots of bangles on my arms, used to dress in black completely. Uh I think in the Jewish community I would have stood out uh extremely. Uh  didn't fit into any of the moulds which brought out the rebel in a lot of older the Jewish people, they came over to meet me.
7:39

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Because I was, you know, I was taking a risk. [Laughter] So they yeah, they, they quite enjoyed me. And to the people who had come by the synagogue, because I wore up a little cap, they just assumed uh that was the dress of the of the Jewish people. So I would be singled out a lot and questioned about what was happening or where to go. And unfortunately, I knew less than most anyway. So uh yeah, I think they thought I might have been a rabbi, but yeah, it was an interesting time to. Because I was, you know, I was taking a risk. [Laughter] So they yeah, they, they quite enjoyed me. And to the people who had come by the synagogue, because I wore up a little cap, they just assumed uh that was the dress of the of the Jewish people. So I would be singled out a lot and questioned about what was happening or where to go. And unfortunately, I knew less than most anyway. So uh yeah, I think they thought I might have been a rabbi, but yeah, it was an interesting time to.
8:09

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To be involved in the community at the same time as I met someone who was Jewish To be involved in the community at the same time as I met someone who was Jewish
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You know that that that in order to be a part of the Jewish community, they they want you to go through a conversion, They want you to actually be Jewish. They don't want their daughters to marry outside uh and they make that. You know that that that in order to be a part of the Jewish community, they they want you to go through a conversion, They want you to actually be Jewish. They don't want their daughters to marry outside uh and they make that.
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They make that right up front. They'll tell you straight up, that's the way it is. So it was a choice I had to make. So I did go through the conversion process. [Hamish] So you weren't from a Jewish background? [Steve] No. Well my mother's father was Jewish, but my parents were. Neither were very religious at all. So I had no religious upbringing. No. But I grew up in a Jewish area, so. They make that right up front. They'll tell you straight up, that's the way it is. So it was a choice I had to make. So I did go through the conversion process. [Hamish] So you weren't from a Jewish background? [Steve] No. Well my mother's father was Jewish, but my parents were. Neither were very religious at all. So I had no religious upbringing. No. But I grew up in a Jewish area, so.
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I knew most of uh the festivals and I knew a lot about being Jewish which uh they were very pleased with. [Hamish] So. So you had some familiarity. [Steve] I had very yeah I, I grew up in Sherman Oaks which is a suburb of uh Los Angeles where all the movie people entertainers, and it's mainly Jewish because just over the hill was Hollywood, Beverly Hills that sort of you know it's where entertainers live. So the school I went to was full of sons and daughters of people who. I knew most of uh the festivals and I knew a lot about being Jewish which uh they were very pleased with. [Hamish] So. So you had some familiarity. [Steve] I had very yeah I, I grew up in Sherman Oaks which is a suburb of uh Los Angeles where all the movie people entertainers, and it's mainly Jewish because just over the hill was Hollywood, Beverly Hills that sort of you know it's where entertainers live. So the school I went to was full of sons and daughters of people who.
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Were either on television or in the movies, but predominantly Jewish, it would be 75% Jewish population. [Hamish] It's interesting thinking that we're at a gathering here of men and elders. And yet in some ways, you were going and you were working with these fellows who all spoke Yiddish and you said that they were quite concerned about what your intent was for their daughter. So you're kind of in a different group of eldership there, aren't you? [Steve] Yes. Yes. Were either on television or in the movies, but predominantly Jewish, it would be 75% Jewish population. [Hamish] It's interesting thinking that we're at a gathering here of men and elders. And yet in some ways, you were going and you were working with these fellows who all spoke Yiddish and you said that they were quite concerned about what your intent was for their daughter. So you're kind of in a different group of eldership there, aren't you? [Steve] Yes. Yes.
9:50

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That, in that, in that group of elders, I really had to work hard to be accepted and the level of commitment I think was a lot higher. That, in that, in that group of elders, I really had to work hard to be accepted and the level of commitment I think was a lot higher.
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You to be a member. In their eyes to be a member or be with them, I had to convert to their religion and ideology uh and go through with their festivals and even down to the dietary laws I had to follow for a while, which is the meating. The mixture of milk and meat the the kosher, non kosher type food which is fairly strict in Orthodox Jews. You to be a member. In their eyes to be a member or be with them, I had to convert to their religion and ideology uh and go through with their festivals and even down to the dietary laws I had to follow for a while, which is the meating. The mixture of milk and meat the the kosher, non kosher type food which is fairly strict in Orthodox Jews.
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That was a very big challenge for me. Uh not that I was ever a, a big pork, ham or bacon eater, but that definitely was off the table. That was a very big challenge for me. Uh not that I was ever a, a big pork, ham or bacon eater, but that definitely was off the table.
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So what was the initial period of your relationship like with Zelik? So what was the initial period of your relationship like with Zelik?
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Initially it was great. He really quite enjoyed my company and uh I, I suppose to yeah to give you a back story there initially I. Initially it was great. He really quite enjoyed my company and uh I, I suppose to yeah to give you a back story there initially I.
10:53

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We told him. We told him.
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A fib. And we told him that I was Jewish, being that my mother's father was Jewish. But how, how it works, It's a matriarchal thing. You have to have a woman in line. So it would have had to be my mother's mother. I would have been Jewish. But because there's a break, we neglected to tell him that uh and for some reason. A fib. And we told him that I was Jewish, being that my mother's father was Jewish. But how, how it works, It's a matriarchal thing. You have to have a woman in line. So it would have had to be my mother's mother. I would have been Jewish. But because there's a break, we neglected to tell him that uh and for some reason.
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My wife in a conversation and it was a heated family argument. Umm, brought up the fact that I wasn't Jewish. My wife in a conversation and it was a heated family argument. Umm, brought up the fact that I wasn't Jewish.
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And then it went bad uh And then it went bad uh
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I was ostracized, uh not spoken to. I can remember getting phone calls and there would be dead silence, but I would hear uh in Australia you have that beep, beep, beep in those days, would let you know it was a call from outside Brisbane, which at this point was the Gold Coast. Uh I knew it was them, so I would just naturally hand the phone and say it's your parents. I was ostracized, uh not spoken to. I can remember getting phone calls and there would be dead silence, but I would hear uh in Australia you have that beep, beep, beep in those days, would let you know it was a call from outside Brisbane, which at this point was the Gold Coast. Uh I knew it was them, so I would just naturally hand the phone and say it's your parents.
11:46

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Uh and this went on for a year, maybe a year and a half, Suzie, and then in the meantime had gotten pregnant with our first child, which is a daughter, Cheyenne. Uh and this went on for a year, maybe a year and a half, Suzie, and then in the meantime had gotten pregnant with our first child, which is a daughter, Cheyenne.
11:56

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They arrived at the hospital. They arrived at the hospital.
12:01

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Basically and waited and it was a long situation. We finally got in. There was a cesarean as I came out, there was Zelik standing behind the wheelchair and they were both sort of looking in my direction. Basically and waited and it was a long situation. We finally got in. There was a cesarean as I came out, there was Zelik standing behind the wheelchair and they were both sort of looking in my direction.
12:13

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So I thought I'd do the right thing. I went over and I congratulated them. They have a beautiful baby granddaughter. And I put my hand out and it just stayed there suspended. I was not looked at. I wasn't spoken to. So I thought I'd do the right thing. I went over and I congratulated them. They have a beautiful baby granddaughter. And I put my hand out and it just stayed there suspended. I was not looked at. I wasn't spoken to.
12:26

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I was very, uh I was such a high from just having a child. I don't know how I reacted to that, uh but on reflection later on, it really upset me. Yeah, so that's that's the level of the their commitment. I knew that straight away. So it was after that, that we discussed. I was very, uh I was such a high from just having a child. I don't know how I reacted to that, uh but on reflection later on, it really upset me. Yeah, so that's that's the level of the their commitment. I knew that straight away. So it was after that, that we discussed.
12:46

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That I would do the conversion and from the day that we had agreed to it, almost the minute that we said yes, I'll go through a conversion. That I would do the conversion and from the day that we had agreed to it, almost the minute that we said yes, I'll go through a conversion.
12:53

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It was like nothing had ever happened. All of a sudden he was my best friend again. It was like nothing had ever happened. All of a sudden he was my best friend again.
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So he needed me to tick that box and reflecting on how he grew up, and what he went through in his life, I thought it was uh. So he needed me to tick that box and reflecting on how he grew up, and what he went through in his life, I thought it was uh.
13:07

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It was the least I could do. So I said yes, [Hamish] Yeah. In some ways it's a mark of respect to the family. [Steve] Yes, yes. [Hamish] And I wonder, you know, if that's not part of the qualities of stepping into a circle of eldership. It was the least I could do. So I said yes, [Hamish] Yeah. In some ways it's a mark of respect to the family. [Steve] Yes, yes. [Hamish] And I wonder, you know, if that's not part of the qualities of stepping into a circle of eldership.
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Yes, yes. Yes, yes.
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Yes, I would agree with you. Uh yeah, the respect. Yes, I would agree with you. Uh yeah, the respect.
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Yes. Yes.
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Having a think about that, uh I think probably respect would be the operative word for anything to do with either stepping up or or approaching eldership. Having a think about that, uh I think probably respect would be the operative word for anything to do with either stepping up or or approaching eldership.
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I have an immense respect for the elders in this this manshine community. I have an immense respect for the elders in this this manshine community.
13:51

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And I think when you get to the point where you're ready to step up. And I think when you get to the point where you're ready to step up.
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They would also have a level of respect for you, so uh They would also have a level of respect for you, so uh
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And that's a calling that you feel at this point. I haven't felt that calling yet. And that's a calling that you feel at this point. I haven't felt that calling yet.
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But yes, I, I still. I uh revere the Elders. [Hamish] How old are you, Steve? [Steve] I'm 61. I turned 62 in December. [Hamish] So I'll say you're well eligible for. [Steve] Yes, I am. I am. I have uh been invited a couple of times, I think a part of me just. But yes, I, I still. I uh revere the Elders. [Hamish] How old are you, Steve? [Steve] I'm 61. I turned 62 in December. [Hamish] So I'll say you're well eligible for. [Steve] Yes, I am. I am. I have uh been invited a couple of times, I think a part of me just.
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I, I suppose. I, I suppose.
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My catch cry is that I don't know what it is I want to be when I grow up, so my fear of going into eldership is nothing more than I don't want to be. My catch cry is that I don't know what it is I want to be when I grow up, so my fear of going into eldership is nothing more than I don't want to be.
14:36

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I don't want to feel like I'm I'm part of the older generation. I still want to be a kid, uh but physically I'm getting a lot a completely different signal these days, so. I don't want to feel like I'm I'm part of the older generation. I still want to be a kid, uh but physically I'm getting a lot a completely different signal these days, so.
14:47

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I think there's going to be a time. I know there's going to be a time where I, I will step up, [Hamish] Yes. And you've come here to record this today out of. I think there's going to be a time. I know there's going to be a time where I, I will step up, [Hamish] Yes. And you've come here to record this today out of.
14:58

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Respect, I think, [Steve] yes. [Hamish] So what is it that you really want to mark in this conversation that, that reflects that respect? Respect, I think, [Steve] yes. [Hamish] So what is it that you really want to mark in this conversation that, that reflects that respect?
15:09

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That uh I can be. That uh I can be.
15:12

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I can completely be empathetic with somebody else's struggle. I can completely be empathetic with somebody else's struggle.
15:19

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To the point where I can, I can step forward to offer help and if the help is only in sitting there. To the point where I can, I can step forward to offer help and if the help is only in sitting there.
15:25

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And listening, and really feeling what this person has gone through, which is what I'm doing with my father-in-law. And listening, and really feeling what this person has gone through, which is what I'm doing with my father-in-law.
15:35

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That, that's what I'm that's what I'm looking at. That's what I want to look at that here. It's not a matter of going around with a horse on a white charger, saving people in my mind these days, it's more about being there. That, that's what I'm that's what I'm looking at. That's what I want to look at that here. It's not a matter of going around with a horse on a white charger, saving people in my mind these days, it's more about being there.
15:48

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Respectfully listening to. Respectfully listening to.
15:51

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Listening to my father-in-law and his stories, which is starting to come out more and more as he's in his 80's, he's starting to relive these things. Listening to my father-in-law and his stories, which is starting to come out more and more as he's in his 80's, he's starting to relive these things.
16:01

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He went into the bedroom, I think a year ago and came out and showed me something his children had never seen, which was a pair of pants, which were Gray and white, striped. And as soon as he held them up, I think a part of me just hit the ground. It was almost like a thud. I knew what they were and they were the pants ?City war?. They were far too big for him, but it brought a. He went into the bedroom, I think a year ago and came out and showed me something his children had never seen, which was a pair of pants, which were Gray and white, striped. And as soon as he held them up, I think a part of me just hit the ground. It was almost like a thud. I knew what they were and they were the pants ?City war?. They were far too big for him, but it brought a.
16:23

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Yeah, it brought a reality uh that no story could have ever shown me. It was just to see those and I actually reached out and touched them. Yeah, it brought a reality uh that no story could have ever shown me. It was just to see those and I actually reached out and touched them.
16:30

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I don't know why, I can't tell you why I did that, but uh I don't know why, I can't tell you why I did that, but uh
16:34

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Yeah, even now. I mean, I'm welling up now. It is just such a powerful thing for him to hold that in a closet for probably 40-45 years and then hold them up to me and look at me, these were the pants that I wore and his children trusted my daughter and her sister turned to me and said we've never seen this. Yeah, even now. I mean, I'm welling up now. It is just such a powerful thing for him to hold that in a closet for probably 40-45 years and then hold them up to me and look at me, these were the pants that I wore and his children trusted my daughter and her sister turned to me and said we've never seen this.
16:56

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I knew at that point that he had, there was some respect, but I think we're equally stubborn. So they respect us. Yeah, it's there we tell others, we just don't tell each other. I knew at that point that he had, there was some respect, but I think we're equally stubborn. So they respect us. Yeah, it's there we tell others, we just don't tell each other.
17:11

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[Hamish] So what is is Zelix story? [Steve] Well, he's he was born in Krakow in Poland. His parents had a restaurant, uh Kosher restaurant. [Hamish] So what is is Zelix story? [Steve] Well, he's he was born in Krakow in Poland. His parents had a restaurant, uh Kosher restaurant.
17:21

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He probably at the age of 12, uh the Germans invaded. They created the Warsaw Ghetto, which he stayed for a while. He probably at the age of 12, uh the Germans invaded. They created the Warsaw Ghetto, which he stayed for a while.
17:33

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This is just a really short version of it all, he was then, I think he lived there for four or five years in the ghetto or whatever the time was, I'm not 100% sure. But his mother, younger brother, who was a baby and sister were taken away separate to him and his father. His father and him were sent to work camps while his mother, uh baby brother, and younger sister were taken straight to Auschwitz. So they probably never made it to the camp. They probably went straight into uh the gas chambers or or whatever. This is just a really short version of it all, he was then, I think he lived there for four or five years in the ghetto or whatever the time was, I'm not 100% sure. But his mother, younger brother, who was a baby and sister were taken away separate to him and his father. His father and him were sent to work camps while his mother, uh baby brother, and younger sister were taken straight to Auschwitz. So they probably never made it to the camp. They probably went straight into uh the gas chambers or or whatever.
18:03

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He doesn't know. And then him and his father went to, uh I think originally Treblinka or one of the there were two work camps. He was then transferred with his father later to another one. He doesn't know. And then him and his father went to, uh I think originally Treblinka or one of the there were two work camps. He was then transferred with his father later to another one.
18:17

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Tragically. Tragically.
18:18

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He. He.
18:20

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His father uh once they knew that the Americans and the Allied forces were coming through, they were shutting a lot of the camps down. But they were taking out 20,000 people a day and shooting them in the forest just to try and get rid of the evidence. His father uh once they knew that the Americans and the Allied forces were coming through, they were shutting a lot of the camps down. But they were taking out 20,000 people a day and shooting them in the forest just to try and get rid of the evidence.
18:35

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His father, unfortunately, was taken on a truck and they were both in line to go on a truck. His father, unfortunately, was taken on a truck and they were both in line to go on a truck.
18:40

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He said he looked at his father and his father shouted at him and he thought he had done something wrong. He didn't even know how to get into the other line, so he moved him out of the line he was in into another area. He then boarded a truck. He said he looked at his father and his father shouted at him and he thought he had done something wrong. He didn't even know how to get into the other line, so he moved him out of the line he was in into another area. He then boarded a truck.
18:52

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Tragically, the last time he saw him. Tragically, the last time he saw him.
18:54

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Yeah. Yeah.
18:55

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Prior to the next lot going out, the Allied forces uh liberated the camp, so he lost his father virtually 24 hours before his liberation. Prior to the next lot going out, the Allied forces uh liberated the camp, so he lost his father virtually 24 hours before his liberation.
19:06

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And he tells his story and I. And he tells his story and I.
19:09

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I'm welling up at the time and he tells me and I'm feeling all this, this, this anger and and that's it. But he tells it in such a calm passion that he's, he's let that go, I think. I'm welling up at the time and he tells me and I'm feeling all this, this, this anger and and that's it. But he tells it in such a calm passion that he's, he's let that go, I think.
19:21

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Yeah, but he's very keen for me to know. Yeah, but he's very keen for me to know.
19:23

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All the particulars. And then from that he went to France. When they liberated him, they there is a story. All the particulars. And then from that he went to France. When they liberated him, they there is a story.
19:32

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That he told about a little girl in a pink coat, which is somehow. That he told about a little girl in a pink coat, which is somehow.
19:37

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Now come around as the girl in the red coat and it's uh it's recorded. Now come around as the girl in the red coat and it's uh it's recorded.
19:42

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Probably 10 years ago, where he watched the little girl while they were marching to the train. The Germans uh soldiers to keep everybody in line would do silly things. Probably 10 years ago, where he watched the little girl while they were marching to the train. The Germans uh soldiers to keep everybody in line would do silly things.
19:53

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Tragically silly things to keep them moving. And one of which is he saw a young girl, probably six or seven years old, taken by the arm away from the marching people as they were walking through the train, and then shot in the head straight on the side of the road. And this was to keep the Germans moving. And as I said that, and as he said that to me, I was watching his facial expressions. Tragically silly things to keep them moving. And one of which is he saw a young girl, probably six or seven years old, taken by the arm away from the marching people as they were walking through the train, and then shot in the head straight on the side of the road. And this was to keep the Germans moving. And as I said that, and as he said that to me, I was watching his facial expressions.
20:16

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And just for a moment he stopped and I could see a little bit of anger. And then he kept going with the story. So he had, obviously. And just for a moment he stopped and I could see a little bit of anger. And then he kept going with the story. So he had, obviously.
20:23

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Been dealing that for a long time, uh but each time he reads it now and he reads it about the little girl in the red coat. I think Steven Spielberg talks about it. He seems to get more and more angry, so I think the older he gets, the more angry he's becoming. Been dealing that for a long time, uh but each time he reads it now and he reads it about the little girl in the red coat. I think Steven Spielberg talks about it. He seems to get more and more angry, so I think the older he gets, the more angry he's becoming.
20:40

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But yeah, and, and that was early on, that was before the camps, After the camps he was, he was sent to France with a group of kids. But yeah, and, and that was early on, that was before the camps, After the camps he was, he was sent to France with a group of kids.
20:49

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And he thought that's where he was gonna live, so they were all taught a trade, but then this opportunity to come to Australia came up and so they all put in for it. And he thought that's where he was gonna live, so they were all taught a trade, but then this opportunity to come to Australia came up and so they all put in for it.
20:58

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He's got a funny accent. He has a, although it's Polish with a little bit of Yiddish, he uh he says the word there after every sentence and I think he picked that even France. So he's got a mixture of a Polish, French, Australian accent. Uh so even if he the end of the word of the sentence he uses is there, he also uses there. So it could be there, there is it over there. They're out outside there, they're at the tree there, you know, and it's it was very French thing to say you've never heard it before. So it's uniquely his accent. He's got a funny accent. He has a, although it's Polish with a little bit of Yiddish, he uh he says the word there after every sentence and I think he picked that even France. So he's got a mixture of a Polish, French, Australian accent. Uh so even if he the end of the word of the sentence he uses is there, he also uses there. So it could be there, there is it over there. They're out outside there, they're at the tree there, you know, and it's it was very French thing to say you've never heard it before. So it's uniquely his accent.
21:28

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Accent. Uh yeah. And he has his command of the language is not bad. He doesn't speak very well. He understands it. Uh so he has about 9 phrases, and he uses those 9 phrases to pick depending on what the conversation is. I can tell you exactly what they are when he's saying them, and it's funny, uh sometimes it's the same thing. You ask him the question, he'll say, well the fact of the matter is, and then he'll answer the question or uh the thing there, the thing there is uh Accent. Uh yeah. And he has his command of the language is not bad. He doesn't speak very well. He understands it. Uh so he has about 9 phrases, and he uses those 9 phrases to pick depending on what the conversation is. I can tell you exactly what they are when he's saying them, and it's funny, uh sometimes it's the same thing. You ask him the question, he'll say, well the fact of the matter is, and then he'll answer the question or uh the thing there, the thing there is uh
21:59

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Is another one, he says. Uh as far as he is concerned, or as far as she is concerned is another one. So these are the phrases he starts with and he just adds one or two words. But first, he has a very small vocabulary, but he's adored by his children and I got to say, he's probably one of the most uh Is another one, he says. Uh as far as he is concerned, or as far as she is concerned is another one. So these are the phrases he starts with and he just adds one or two words. But first, he has a very small vocabulary, but he's adored by his children and I got to say, he's probably one of the most uh
22:21

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He, he's probably the warmest. He, he's probably the warmest.
22:24

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Most loving grandfather I think I've ever seen. He's, he dotes over his children. Even though he's that old now, he's virtually just sits in a chair. He wants to hear their voices, so he invites them over all the time. It doesn't speak to them. They could knock things over and he just sits there grinning. He just wants to see them uh Most loving grandfather I think I've ever seen. He's, he dotes over his children. Even though he's that old now, he's virtually just sits in a chair. He wants to hear their voices, so he invites them over all the time. It doesn't speak to them. They could knock things over and he just sits there grinning. He just wants to see them uh
22:43

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I think it's to him. He's, he came here to recreate or rebuild his family and he did that and I told him that once at a gathering I, I singled him out uh when I was speaking and I uh I think it's to him. He's, he came here to recreate or rebuild his family and he did that and I told him that once at a gathering I, I singled him out uh when I was speaking and I uh
22:56

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I talked about his past a little bit. It was a Jewish gathering, so they understood the coming from the ashes. I talked about his past a little bit. It was a Jewish gathering, so they understood the coming from the ashes.
23:03

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And I said to him, and I said, well, you came here to start. And I said to him, and I said, well, you came here to start.
23:07

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Something to start over to recreate a family. And I paused for a minute and I said yeah, you did it. Something to start over to recreate a family. And I paused for a minute and I said yeah, you did it.
23:13

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And it uh was off the cuff, but it brought him into uh an emotional, sobbing mess. So he realized at that point that what he had set out to do, and had, had been done so, uh and that sort of welled up in me as well. I, I can remember being very emotional about that, not knowing I was going to say it. It just happened. And it uh was off the cuff, but it brought him into uh an emotional, sobbing mess. So he realized at that point that what he had set out to do, and had, had been done so, uh and that sort of welled up in me as well. I, I can remember being very emotional about that, not knowing I was going to say it. It just happened.
23:33

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But yeah, just to let him know, mate, you did it. You've come over here and you've started again. Have a look. You've got grandchildren, they're running around, you've done it, you know, So yeah. But yeah, just to let him know, mate, you did it. You've come over here and you've started again. Have a look. You've got grandchildren, they're running around, you've done it, you know, So yeah.
23:44

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And Suzie? And Suzie?
23:47

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Oh, Suzie, she is his daughter and she is the rebel, [Laughter] hence why she met me. And the whole problems that we had in the beginning, was that Suzie wasn't going to go out and meet the the Jewish boy and, and do the right thing. So I was the rebel. Uh but uh, in Suzie's father's eyes, she is. Oh, Suzie, she is his daughter and she is the rebel, [Laughter] hence why she met me. And the whole problems that we had in the beginning, was that Suzie wasn't going to go out and meet the the Jewish boy and, and do the right thing. So I was the rebel. Uh but uh, in Suzie's father's eyes, she is.
24:07

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Her mother, uh she sees him or he sees her as. Her mother, uh she sees him or he sees her as.
24:12

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Almost exactly his wife. He will allow her only to do certain things uh, if he's not feeling well, he she's the first to call out of all the children. Almost exactly his wife. He will allow her only to do certain things uh, if he's not feeling well, he she's the first to call out of all the children.
24:24

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And she takes on that role uh when I get there. She takes on the cooking, the cleaning, She sets up his thing. She tells him what to do, when to do. And he's very happy with that. He, he very much. And she looks a lot like her mother. I think that's partly it. She's very bright, extremely bright. Uh but she's chosen a career as a, in childcare, working with children. She's actually the President of Kucan. She writes a lot of the policy before the, before and after school care. She's very well uh regarded. And she takes on that role uh when I get there. She takes on the cooking, the cleaning, She sets up his thing. She tells him what to do, when to do. And he's very happy with that. He, he very much. And she looks a lot like her mother. I think that's partly it. She's very bright, extremely bright. Uh but she's chosen a career as a, in childcare, working with children. She's actually the President of Kucan. She writes a lot of the policy before the, before and after school care. She's very well uh regarded.
24:54

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The Minister of Education in Queensland is a close friend of hers and they do a lot together, but she spends most of her life now. The Minister of Education in Queensland is a close friend of hers and they do a lot together, but she spends most of her life now.
25:02

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Looking after children and making sure they're safe and I, and I have a feeling a lot of that comes from. Looking after children and making sure they're safe and I, and I have a feeling a lot of that comes from.
25:09

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Her father being a very unsafe child and and and what happened in the Holocaust. She does the Courage to Care program from Anne Frank Courage to care when it comes to Brisbane. She speaks, she speaks on the Holocaust, uh about the Holocaust to some schools. Her father being a very unsafe child and and and what happened in the Holocaust. She does the Courage to Care program from Anne Frank Courage to care when it comes to Brisbane. She speaks, she speaks on the Holocaust, uh about the Holocaust to some schools.
25:26

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It's, it's a, it's a very, she's a first generation so it's very, very uh raw with her. It's, it's there, it's very real uh It's, it's a, it's a very, she's a first generation so it's very, very uh raw with her. It's, it's there, it's very real uh
25:35

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Yeah, and her and I have the same version to watching any kind of movie or documentary on the Holocaust. I, I cringe, even though I know I should be seeing it. I cringe because I can't watch it, because I can actually feel it. Yeah, and her and I have the same version to watching any kind of movie or documentary on the Holocaust. I, I cringe, even though I know I should be seeing it. I cringe because I can't watch it, because I can actually feel it.
25:50

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And so can she. It's not like you're watching a group of people being uh wiped out that you don't know and some action-packed Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Uh it's, it's you can actually feel you can hear them because I grew up with them and so did Suzie. So we yeah, we share that one. Uh Yeah. [Hamish] That scene that you depict where you're with Zelik and the other fellows who had been in the camps. And so can she. It's not like you're watching a group of people being uh wiped out that you don't know and some action-packed Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Uh it's, it's you can actually feel you can hear them because I grew up with them and so did Suzie. So we yeah, we share that one. Uh Yeah. [Hamish] That scene that you depict where you're with Zelik and the other fellows who had been in the camps.
26:16

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That's a powerful image. Do you wanna sort of describe that a little bit more? That's a powerful image. Do you wanna sort of describe that a little bit more?
26:22

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Ah, yes uh Ah, yes uh
26:25

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I, I, I, I sat one day on the outside of a synagogue with three guys and the they were all from they were the Burkenbolt boys. I, I, I, I sat one day on the outside of a synagogue with three guys and the they were all from they were the Burkenbolt boys.
26:35

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And the conversation, of course, started out with Zelik telling each one of them stuff about me. And so they would ask me a question and of course Zalic would answer for me, uh which you know anything about the Jewish community. That's the way things happen. There's usually a spokesman, [Laughter] uh but the questions started getting really personal from them. And then. And the conversation, of course, started out with Zelik telling each one of them stuff about me. And so they would ask me a question and of course Zalic would answer for me, uh which you know anything about the Jewish community. That's the way things happen. There's usually a spokesman, [Laughter] uh but the questions started getting really personal from them. And then.
26:56

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I, I suppose naturally I started to ask them questions about uh the camps. Their questions, their answers to me were very short uh but very precise. And then. I, I suppose naturally I started to ask them questions about uh the camps. Their questions, their answers to me were very short uh but very precise. And then.
27:08

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Almost as they were answering the question, they would turn to the other two. Almost as they were answering the question, they would turn to the other two.
27:12

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With a hand gesture and they would all sort of nod and they would, it was almost like they would bring something up and they, all three of them knew exactly what it was. With a hand gesture and they would all sort of nod and they would, it was almost like they would bring something up and they, all three of them knew exactly what it was.
27:21

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And it was this, Yeah. Almost this. Yeah. Without. And it was this, Yeah. Almost this. Yeah. Without.
27:26

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Almost without words, they knew exactly what they were talking about. They could actually depict the incident. Almost without words, they knew exactly what they were talking about. They could actually depict the incident.
27:31

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They knew it. They must have lived this over and over between themselves for years. Uh I was a new player. I came in and I think at first they were guarded, but in the end I got to see a lot more than even uh Zelik's children. I saw and heard a lot more of what happened. Uh I even heard some good stories, and one of the good stories was the, he told of a German guard that used to bring him buckets of potato peelings. They knew it. They must have lived this over and over between themselves for years. Uh I was a new player. I came in and I think at first they were guarded, but in the end I got to see a lot more than even uh Zelik's children. I saw and heard a lot more of what happened. Uh I even heard some good stories, and one of the good stories was the, he told of a German guard that used to bring him buckets of potato peelings.
27:59

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And if you only get one meal a day, and it's soup and, and a bit of stale bread, I can imagine that the potato peelings would be a very nutritious. And if you only get one meal a day, and it's soup and, and a bit of stale bread, I can imagine that the potato peelings would be a very nutritious.
28:09

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Sort of. And it was distributed among the young boys that he was with. So it, uh yeah. Sort of. And it was distributed among the young boys that he was with. So it, uh yeah.
28:15

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Very sad uh Very sad uh
28:18

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Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
28:21

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That's one of the reasons I struggled for many years is, why couldn't get along with Zelik. That's one of the reasons I struggled for many years is, why couldn't get along with Zelik.
28:27

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Because of his background. But I deeply respected what he went through. But I think him and I were two totally different personalities. But uh it taught me a lot about eldership here. I did not look at the elders here. Whether or not I liked them. I looked at the fact that they were an elder first. I respected that. Whether or not I could ever be friends with them is a different story. But. Because of his background. But I deeply respected what he went through. But I think him and I were two totally different personalities. But uh it taught me a lot about eldership here. I did not look at the elders here. Whether or not I liked them. I looked at the fact that they were an elder first. I respected that. Whether or not I could ever be friends with them is a different story. But.
28:50

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I know that I have a deep and a revered respect for them as an elder, [Hamish] and there's certain codes convention within that relationship. [Steve] Yes, yes. I know that I have a deep and a revered respect for them as an elder, [Hamish] and there's certain codes convention within that relationship. [Steve] Yes, yes.
28:60

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Yes. Yes.
29:03

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Yes, I, I would not uh Yes, I, I would not uh
29:08

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I've learned to not take anything personally like for a long time. Uh If someone would say something to me, almost an apparent role as an elder, I could easily take offense. I don't know, because when an elder speaks, I know it comes uh from a place of wisdom and uh. I've learned to not take anything personally like for a long time. Uh If someone would say something to me, almost an apparent role as an elder, I could easily take offense. I don't know, because when an elder speaks, I know it comes uh from a place of wisdom and uh.
29:26

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Yes, it's something I should listen to. Yes, it's something I should listen to.
29:28

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[Hamish] And yet they're human beings. [Steve] Yes, yes, they all have hearts, they all have pasts, and uh they may or may not have worked them out. I've learned that the hard way. Uh they have ghosts as well as I do so, but they have the tools to be able to teach me, and I'm hoping to learn the tools to teach my children. [Hamish] And yet they're human beings. [Steve] Yes, yes, they all have hearts, they all have pasts, and uh they may or may not have worked them out. I've learned that the hard way. Uh they have ghosts as well as I do so, but they have the tools to be able to teach me, and I'm hoping to learn the tools to teach my children.
29:52

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But you're also being, how are we going for time by the way? But you're also being, how are we going for time by the way?
29:57

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OK. We're also uh here, uh in a situation where you wanted to talk about this with me, and it came up at last year's gathering, and something that you're, you're a legacy, you're part of this legacy and you're part of this man's story. OK. We're also uh here, uh in a situation where you wanted to talk about this with me, and it came up at last year's gathering, and something that you're, you're a legacy, you're part of this legacy and you're part of this man's story.
30:16

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And, and so you are sort of stepping up and playing a kind of an active role in terms of seeing that this story is continued, and that that it is kept, and that it's kept responsibly. And, and so you are sort of stepping up and playing a kind of an active role in terms of seeing that this story is continued, and that that it is kept, and that it's kept responsibly.
30:31

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What is it about your role that, that, that, that's allowing you to do that? Why? Why? Why at this point? What is it about your role that, that, that, that's allowing you to do that? Why? Why? Why at this point?
30:38

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[Steve] At this point [Hamish] in your life. [Steve] At this point [Hamish] in your life.
30:43

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I think it was, uh what, what allowed me was. I got involved with Common Ground and for the first time I started to see. I think it was, uh what, what allowed me was. I got involved with Common Ground and for the first time I started to see.
30:52

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Me. Me.
30:54

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I think prior to that I played the role of whatever it was I was supposed to be, and through the rules that I had been taught as a child, You, you are the man in the house. You go get a job, you go and you do work hard and whatever you drink, whatever it is that, that I was supposed to do as a father, and, and, and, and man. I think prior to that I played the role of whatever it was I was supposed to be, and through the rules that I had been taught as a child, You, you are the man in the house. You go get a job, you go and you do work hard and whatever you drink, whatever it is that, that I was supposed to do as a father, and, and, and, and man.
31:14

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But later in life I, I started to work out that it wasn't all working out for me, and uh there was a lot of things that just weren't working and I couldn't work out why because I thought I had been playing by the rules. It wasn't fair. But later in life I, I started to work out that it wasn't all working out for me, and uh there was a lot of things that just weren't working and I couldn't work out why because I thought I had been playing by the rules. It wasn't fair.
31:28

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But I started to get uh involved in men's work, and come to gatherings like this. But I started to get uh involved in men's work, and come to gatherings like this.
31:34

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Where I was listening to people that I would say on the surface I thought were the most together, like people I'd ever met. I thought these guys really got it together. Where I was listening to people that I would say on the surface I thought were the most together, like people I'd ever met. I thought these guys really got it together.
31:43

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About 10 minutes into listening in the Chair and I realized. About 10 minutes into listening in the Chair and I realized.
31:47

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They were more screwed up than me and but yet. They were more screwed up than me and but yet.
31:51

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You know, they they could, they could go in deep into something. You know, they they could, they could go in deep into something.
31:56

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Fall apart. Completely sloppy. Fall apart. Completely sloppy.
31:59

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And then 25 minutes later I could be sitting across and having lunch, and they could be saying, oh, you're from Brisbane where? [Laughter] And I thought, how did they do this emotional stuff? What is this all about? So I really didn't have command of my emotions now that I do. And then 25 minutes later I could be sitting across and having lunch, and they could be saying, oh, you're from Brisbane where? [Laughter] And I thought, how did they do this emotional stuff? What is this all about? So I really didn't have command of my emotions now that I do.
32:15

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I can empathize with what my father-in-law went through. I can empathize what his children go through. I can look at people on the street whether I like them or not and. I can empathize with what my father-in-law went through. I can empathize what his children go through. I can look at people on the street whether I like them or not and.
32:26

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I can see that that they're struggling. If someone is struggling, I want to help them. I, I, I, I uh want to help someone cross the street now. I don't ever want to turn my back. I think that we've become a society of people that you know are stuck to our iPhones with our backs to the disaster. The reality is I uh I can see that that they're struggling. If someone is struggling, I want to help them. I, I, I, I uh want to help someone cross the street now. I don't ever want to turn my back. I think that we've become a society of people that you know are stuck to our iPhones with our backs to the disaster. The reality is I uh
32:46

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I know that just one small change, uh you know, basically saying hello to somebody, and helping someone uh is become so important to me. I know that just one small change, uh you know, basically saying hello to somebody, and helping someone uh is become so important to me.
32:59

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That it's part of my weekly schedule. I now put away $100 a week. That it's part of my weekly schedule. I now put away $100 a week.
33:04

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To some kind of charity, local, local charity, whether it's in tins or whether I hand it to somebody on the street, that sort of thing. And then I've gotta figure that I use yearly, that I give to larger charities uh and in my. To some kind of charity, local, local charity, whether it's in tins or whether I hand it to somebody on the street, that sort of thing. And then I've gotta figure that I use yearly, that I give to larger charities uh and in my.
33:19

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Well, I guess my theory. Well, I guess my theory.
33:22

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Or rationale, rationale. That behind that, is the fact that if everybody does that little bit, and I'm part of everybody, uh it'll make a difference. I'm not wealthy enough to give away millions. Or rationale, rationale. That behind that, is the fact that if everybody does that little bit, and I'm part of everybody, uh it'll make a difference. I'm not wealthy enough to give away millions.
33:35

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But certainly $100 a week I can easily afford. And I've decided that giving and I've heard this as a child. Giving is better than receiving. And I never understood that as a child, I think. Are you serious? But certainly $100 a week I can easily afford. And I've decided that giving and I've heard this as a child. Giving is better than receiving. And I never understood that as a child, I think. Are you serious?
33:48

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I'd much rather get a new bike than give something away, but it's, it's true. I'd much rather get a new bike than give something away, but it's, it's true.
33:53

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I have come at the tender age of 60 years old to realize that giving something to someone feels as good, if not sometimes even better than receiving. Uh so that's the shift in my life, and I can put that down to coming to men's groups, uh managing manhood, common ground. I'm now a common ground facilitator. I'm a tribal group leader. Uh this year I've stepped up in the organizing committee. I have come at the tender age of 60 years old to realize that giving something to someone feels as good, if not sometimes even better than receiving. Uh so that's the shift in my life, and I can put that down to coming to men's groups, uh managing manhood, common ground. I'm now a common ground facilitator. I'm a tribal group leader. Uh this year I've stepped up in the organizing committee.
34:22

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All of these things, five years ago, I would have told you I didn't have time to do, so uh All of these things, five years ago, I would have told you I didn't have time to do, so uh
34:28

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Yeah, uh I was kidding myself. I was basically hiding from myself. So I now turn. I don't look at the iPhone, I look straight into into uh what I think is, what I should be doing, which is I steer into the fear is, is a term I heard the other day, which I really quite like. I do a lot of that. Yeah, uh I was kidding myself. I was basically hiding from myself. So I now turn. I don't look at the iPhone, I look straight into into uh what I think is, what I should be doing, which is I steer into the fear is, is a term I heard the other day, which I really quite like. I do a lot of that.
34:49

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Not quite with the documentaries on the Holocaust yet, but that's something that uh I think I'm going to learn to do. Not quite with the documentaries on the Holocaust yet, but that's something that uh I think I'm going to learn to do.
34:56

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Yeah, there's a piece of Zelix story which I'm curious about. So he arrived in Australia. Yeah, there's a piece of Zelix story which I'm curious about. So he arrived in Australia.
35:03

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Around the age of 18, possibly a little bit older, [Steve] Yes. [Hamish] How did he sort it out? What did he do? [Steve] Well, he had a sponsor family in Brisbane, so they put him up for a short time, uh so he can get himself. They asked him when he came through customs, what is it you do for a living and? Around the age of 18, possibly a little bit older, [Steve] Yes. [Hamish] How did he sort it out? What did he do? [Steve] Well, he had a sponsor family in Brisbane, so they put him up for a short time, uh so he can get himself. They asked him when he came through customs, what is it you do for a living and?
35:21

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He didn't have a trade, so in a panic, he said. I'm a Shoemaker, so they quickly arranged for him to work for a company that made shoes. He didn't have a trade, so in a panic, he said. I'm a Shoemaker, so they quickly arranged for him to work for a company that made shoes.
35:32

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He said the first few were a bit sloppy. [Laughter] Again, this is Zelix tells this little story and has to live up to it. Uh and so he was a Shoemaker for a while. Uh but he could also sew, and he learned that he could sew. Within about six or seven years, he had actually started his own business, making cushions and sleeping bags and. He said the first few were a bit sloppy. [Laughter] Again, this is Zelix tells this little story and has to live up to it. Uh and so he was a Shoemaker for a while. Uh but he could also sew, and he learned that he could sew. Within about six or seven years, he had actually started his own business, making cushions and sleeping bags and.
35:55

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He moved to everything, was in Melbourne for a short time but moved to Brisbane where he met a 12 year old girl. He moved to everything, was in Melbourne for a short time but moved to Brisbane where he met a 12 year old girl.
36:01

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Which eventually became his wife uh when she was in her, I think she was 20, 22, something like that. So it was a long courtship. It wasn't a courtship in the beginning. He had met her initially uh Which eventually became his wife uh when she was in her, I think she was 20, 22, something like that. So it was a long courtship. It wasn't a courtship in the beginning. He had met her initially uh
36:14

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He started his own business uh making these bags, sleeping bags and cushions for other companies and eventually built it up to where he, his family, could survive from that one income. He started his own business uh making these bags, sleeping bags and cushions for other companies and eventually built it up to where he, his family, could survive from that one income.
36:27

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He then uh, he's a very astute business person for a man with his zero education. He then worked out he bought this little shed, but it was on a fairly large block. He then uh, he's a very astute business person for a man with his zero education. He then worked out he bought this little shed, but it was on a fairly large block.
36:37

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So what he did was 10 years into it, he expanded this shed into a much larger shed. Two or three others got the people who were paying rent to pay for the cost of building it and eventually sold the whole lot at the age of about 40 years old, 45 years old because his wife had MS. and retired to the Gold Coast and the canal front home. So this is for a man with no education and didn't take risks, he bought his first house cash because he didn't believe in paying interest. He he's very thrifty. So what he did was 10 years into it, he expanded this shed into a much larger shed. Two or three others got the people who were paying rent to pay for the cost of building it and eventually sold the whole lot at the age of about 40 years old, 45 years old because his wife had MS. and retired to the Gold Coast and the canal front home. So this is for a man with no education and didn't take risks, he bought his first house cash because he didn't believe in paying interest. He he's very thrifty.
37:07

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Very, very thrifty man. But uh yeah, he's just. Very, very thrifty man. But uh yeah, he's just.
37:13

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Although we don't get along. Although we don't get along.
37:15

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And that's partly my fault. Partly his fault. That's probably the way it's going to be. I still. And that's partly my fault. Partly his fault. That's probably the way it's going to be. I still.
37:22

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I sit in awe of how he has gone through life, what he's had to put up with and how far he got in such a beautiful outcome that he had. I sit in awe of how he has gone through life, what he's had to put up with and how far he got in such a beautiful outcome that he had.
37:34

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It's inspiring and uh It's inspiring and uh
37:37

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I would be very, very happy to be half that person when I get to his age, yeah. I would be very, very happy to be half that person when I get to his age, yeah.
37:44

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Is that a good night to finish on? I think so. I think so. OK. Thank you very much. Thank you. Is that a good night to finish on? I think so. I think so. OK. Thank you very much. Thank you.