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0:02

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[Margaret] [...]. [Michael] Are you [...]? [Margaret] [...] real Queensland. [Michael] Yeah, well, [Margaret] [...]. [Michael] Are you [...]? [Margaret] [...] real Queensland. [Michael] Yeah, well,
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I'll just - I'll just introduce it and say interview with Margaret Gibson with Michael Brumby on the - is it the 3rd today? 3rd of May? I'll just - I'll just introduce it and say interview with Margaret Gibson with Michael Brumby on the - is it the 3rd today? 3rd of May?
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[Margaret] 5th. [Michael] 5th of May? It is too. May Day weekend, the Labor Day. [Margaret] Mmm. [Michael] Okay. And we're at Craven Street. [Margaret] 5th. [Michael] 5th of May? It is too. May Day weekend, the Labor Day. [Margaret] Mmm. [Michael] Okay. And we're at Craven Street.
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Craven Street? [Margaret] Mmm. [Michael] Okay. The hotel; what was it called? [Margaret] The Glad - the Gladstone. Craven Street? [Margaret] Mmm. [Michael] Okay. The hotel; what was it called? [Margaret] The Glad - the Gladstone.
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There was the Australian Hotel, then the Gladstone, then the Southern Cross. There was the Australian Hotel, then the Gladstone, then the Southern Cross.
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[Michael] In Mosman Street? [Margaret] In Mosman Street. Three together and just a few doors down there was another hotel. There was a hotel across the road. That's it up there. [Michael] In Mosman Street? [Margaret] In Mosman Street. Three together and just a few doors down there was another hotel. There was a hotel across the road. That's it up there.
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[Michael] Right. [Margaret] See that painting? [Michael] On the painting on the wall there? [Margaret] Mmm. But that hotel, [Michael] Right. [Margaret] See that painting? [Michael] On the painting on the wall there? [Margaret] Mmm. But that hotel,
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I never knew the name of it, but apparently that was burnt down and that was the original Commonwealth Bank in Charters Towers. That's up in Mosman Street, right? [Michael] Mmm. I never knew the name of it, but apparently that was burnt down and that was the original Commonwealth Bank in Charters Towers. That's up in Mosman Street, right? [Michael] Mmm.
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And we were across the road. And we were across the road.
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And um - [Michael] You lived there during the war? [Margaret] Yes. And during the war, the And um - [Michael] You lived there during the war? [Margaret] Yes. And during the war, the
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- well, the Americans approached my dad - well, the Americans approached my dad
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to see if they could use the ho- we - it was closed as a pub and we were living behind it as a residence then. [Michael] Why was it closed? to see if they could use the ho- we - it was closed as a pub and we were living behind it as a residence then. [Michael] Why was it closed?
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Well, because there were 92 hotels in the Towers. Well, because there were 92 hotels in the Towers.
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And when the gold petered out and people left, a lot of the hotels had to close. So we lived there And when the gold petered out and people left, a lot of the hotels had to close. So we lived there
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as a residence - [Michael] As a residence. [Margaret] because there were so many of us. My dad didn't have a job after the hotel closed. as a residence - [Michael] As a residence. [Margaret] because there were so many of us. My dad didn't have a job after the hotel closed.
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And um, And um,
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we had seven children then we had seven children then
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and three more came later, but we just - that was our home. That's - that's all we knew. And then when the Second World War was on, as I say, the Americans came and asked my dad could they use it as an Officers Club, and three more came later, but we just - that was our home. That's - that's all we knew. And then when the Second World War was on, as I say, the Americans came and asked my dad could they use it as an Officers Club,
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but my dad said no. but my dad said no.
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Don't know why. Well - well, I mean, Don't know why. Well - well, I mean,
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maybe he could see something. Well, I didn't even know, to be honest. I didn't even know it. And I didn't know this until much later on till we were grown up, see. maybe he could see something. Well, I didn't even know, to be honest. I didn't even know it. And I didn't know this until much later on till we were grown up, see.
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Well, then Well, then
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the American - the Australian Army came and asked could they use it as a canteen, and they did. the American - the Australian Army came and asked could they use it as a canteen, and they did.
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And it was an - a canteen in the bar. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] He sold - they sold everything that the canteens sell. And it was an - a canteen in the bar. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] He sold - they sold everything that the canteens sell.
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Oh, I don't know how long that was there for. Oh, I don't know how long that was there for.
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I wouldn't have a clue how long. But then they left I wouldn't have a clue how long. But then they left
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and then the Australian Army come again and asked could they use it as a kit store. and then the Australian Army come again and asked could they use it as a kit store.
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[Michael] A kit store? [Margaret] A kit store. And upstairs, they used it upstairs. They had all these um, [Michael] A kit store? [Margaret] A kit store. And upstairs, they used it upstairs. They had all these um,
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you know, swag sort of thing. [speaking over] Yeah, the kits, yeah, yes. you know, swag sort of thing. [speaking over] Yeah, the kits, yeah, yes.
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And these men And these men
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who were in charge, they stayed at the hotel with us, you know. who were in charge, they stayed at the hotel with us, you know.
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And And
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- and then suddenly - and then suddenly
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the war was over. the war was over.
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My dad, in the meantime, had managed to get a job in the post office My dad, in the meantime, had managed to get a job in the post office
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and then they transferred him to Sellheim, and then they transferred him to Sellheim,
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you know, where all the soldiers were. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Big, big army camp it was. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And they transferred - see, they had called my dad up you know, where all the soldiers were. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Big, big army camp it was. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And they transferred - see, they had called my dad up
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to join the army. to join the army.
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And when he went for his medical, they said, "Oh, And when he went for his medical, they said, "Oh,
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You've got a bad heart." You've got a bad heart."
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And I always remember him coming home and telling my mother, "I didn't get the call up because I've got a bad heart," and they both burst out laughing because they had seven children and they thought this was their - this was the army's way And I always remember him coming home and telling my mother, "I didn't get the call up because I've got a bad heart," and they both burst out laughing because they had seven children and they thought this was their - this was the army's way
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of not saying, "You've got too many kids." of not saying, "You've got too many kids."
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He did have a bad heart too. [Michael] Mmm-hmm. [Margaret] Anyway, he went to Sellheim He did have a bad heart too. [Michael] Mmm-hmm. [Margaret] Anyway, he went to Sellheim
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and he worked in the post office of the army part down there. and he worked in the post office of the army part down there.
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And then they brought him home again to Charters Towers. Then they transferred him out to Breddan out to the air force camp, and he was out there until the end of the war. And then they brought him home again to Charters Towers. Then they transferred him out to Breddan out to the air force camp, and he was out there until the end of the war.
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And um, And um,
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Well, then he - they kept him on in the post office. He stayed in the post office. Well, in the meantime, Well, then he - they kept him on in the post office. He stayed in the post office. Well, in the meantime,
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- this should go in that bit - in the meantime, - this should go in that bit - in the meantime,
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we couldn't pay the rates on the hotel, see, and the lovely council sold us up. we couldn't pay the rates on the hotel, see, and the lovely council sold us up.
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And there were 10 and the baby was three months old, and we were literally put out on the street. And there were 10 and the baby was three months old, and we were literally put out on the street.
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Couldn't believe it. So we were billeted with Grandma and the aunties, the   Retchlesses. [Michael] Where did they live at this time? [Margaret] They live up near the - in Elizabeth Street up near the - [Joe] Near the showgrounds. [Margaret] showgrounds. Couldn't believe it. So we were billeted with Grandma and the aunties, the   Retchlesses. [Michael] Where did they live at this time? [Margaret] They live up near the - in Elizabeth Street up near the - [Joe] Near the showgrounds. [Margaret] showgrounds.
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Some of us went there, some of them went around the corner and some went around that corner. Some of us went there, some of them went around the corner and some went around that corner.
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See, and one of my brothers was um, See, and one of my brothers was um,
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doing junior at the time doing junior at the time
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and he passed. He just passed, just like that. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But and he passed. He just passed, just like that. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But
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Leonard would have been very, very young then. Very young. Oh, he wouldn't have even been at school. Leonard would have been very, very young then. Very young. Oh, he wouldn't have even been at school.
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And And
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then we heard then we heard
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my music teacher was going away on holidays for a month and she said we could have her house. So we - the whole family went and lived in her house for a month. Then when she came back we went to another - place for a month and then when they came back we went to another place for a month. And then we eventually got this tiny, tiny, tiny house my music teacher was going away on holidays for a month and she said we could have her house. So we - the whole family went and lived in her house for a month. Then when she came back we went to another - place for a month and then when they came back we went to another place for a month. And then we eventually got this tiny, tiny, tiny house
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for ten children. I mean, you're used to a big hotel and you're in this tiny, tiny place. for ten children. I mean, you're used to a big hotel and you're in this tiny, tiny place.
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Anyway, we stayed there and then Anyway, we stayed there and then
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my dad my dad
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decided to buy a house and that's the one - you've been to Leonard's place? [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Well, that's the one. [Michael] In Mosman Street opposite the Commercial Hotel. [Margaret] Yeah, that's it. [Michael] The family home? [Margaret] Yes. [Michael] [...] lasted a long time. [Margaret] Lasted a long time all right. And what sold Dad was when he walked in this big bathroom, because if you'd have seen the bathroom in Ryan Street - you walked into the bath, decided to buy a house and that's the one - you've been to Leonard's place? [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Well, that's the one. [Michael] In Mosman Street opposite the Commercial Hotel. [Margaret] Yeah, that's it. [Michael] The family home? [Margaret] Yes. [Michael] [...] lasted a long time. [Margaret] Lasted a long time all right. And what sold Dad was when he walked in this big bathroom, because if you'd have seen the bathroom in Ryan Street - you walked into the bath,
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you - you got undressed, you - you just stepped over and you had your bath and that was it. And it was about that big. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But anyway, you - you got undressed, you - you just stepped over and you had your bath and that was it. And it was about that big. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But anyway,
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well, that - that's all I can remember for the Second World War. well, that - that's all I can remember for the Second World War.
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What about your dad saying anything about working at the post office? What about your dad saying anything about working at the post office?
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Well, he loved it. He was very, very good in the post office and he loved it. But then Vera, see, my aunty, she got a job in the post office Well, he loved it. He was very, very good in the post office and he loved it. But then Vera, see, my aunty, she got a job in the post office
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and and
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this was during the war too, and oh, they worked long, hard hours. this was during the war too, and oh, they worked long, hard hours.
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And when the post office was opened, four deep, the soldiers would be standing to be served, you know, because - and the Americans were here and they were sending cables home to America and And when the post office was opened, four deep, the soldiers would be standing to be served, you know, because - and the Americans were here and they were sending cables home to America and
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the - our Aussies were sending telegrams to - and buying stamps and everything. the - our Aussies were sending telegrams to - and buying stamps and everything.
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I really can't say much about Vera much. [Joe] [...]. [Margaret] All I - I really can't say much about Vera much. [Joe] [...]. [Margaret] All I -
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Yes, that's what I said. [Joe] [...]. [Margaret] This big queue and - no, Michael wouldn't remember it. [speaking over]  [Michael] No, it was always a small pokey one on the side and I always thought that was it. [Margaret] Well, you know where the mail room is? [Michael] Until - until Vera said to me on the phone the other night. She said it's a big long counter. [Margaret] Oh. [Joe] [...]. [Margaret] Yeah. And it - it came along like that and curved around, didn't it? [Joe] Mmm. [Margaret] But beautiful timber, beautiful. I don't know what they ever did with that counter. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And out the back of the counter was the - the Morse code, Yes, that's what I said. [Joe] [...]. [Margaret] This big queue and - no, Michael wouldn't remember it. [speaking over]  [Michael] No, it was always a small pokey one on the side and I always thought that was it. [Margaret] Well, you know where the mail room is? [Michael] Until - until Vera said to me on the phone the other night. She said it's a big long counter. [Margaret] Oh. [Joe] [...]. [Margaret] Yeah. And it - it came along like that and curved around, didn't it? [Joe] Mmm. [Margaret] But beautiful timber, beautiful. I don't know what they ever did with that counter. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And out the back of the counter was the - the Morse code,
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you know, sending the telegrams. [Michael] Yes, mmm. [Margaret] And they were kept flat out. And the sorting - sorting the mail and that. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But see, Vera could tell you a lot more about that. I mean, I could ask her, you know. [Michael] Yeah. [Margaret] And upstairs was the you know, sending the telegrams. [Michael] Yes, mmm. [Margaret] And they were kept flat out. And the sorting - sorting the mail and that. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But see, Vera could tell you a lot more about that. I mean, I could ask her, you know. [Michael] Yeah. [Margaret] And upstairs was the
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- what did they call it? The DI, - what did they call it? The DI,
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the district inspector. And his office was upstairs because he was in charge of everything of the whole district, you know, roughly up to. the district inspector. And his office was upstairs because he was in charge of everything of the whole district, you know, roughly up to.
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Mount Isa, I think. Mount Isa, I think.
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Yes, Yes,
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would have been to Mount Isa because, see, my dad was often drafted out to, say, Pentland and Prairie and - and all these little places out near Mount Isa as the acting postmaster would have been to Mount Isa because, see, my dad was often drafted out to, say, Pentland and Prairie and - and all these little places out near Mount Isa as the acting postmaster
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because he'd been there such a long time. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But because he'd been there such a long time. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But
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 - and then one of my sisters worked in the DI's office. She was the typist. And then when she left - she left, got married, another sister got the job, Marie and Joan, I think.  - and then one of my sisters worked in the DI's office. She was the typist. And then when she left - she left, got married, another sister got the job, Marie and Joan, I think.
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[...]. [...].
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Life - life for you in the in the town at that time, was it - Life - life for you in the in the town at that time, was it -
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Well, I was a bit young. I was a bit young then and I had just Well, I was a bit young. I was a bit young then and I had just
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- I had - I left school. I don't want this going on the record, but - just turn that off for a minute. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Yes, my first job after I left school was at Stan Pollard's. Today it's called Fossey's. - I had - I left school. I don't want this going on the record, but - just turn that off for a minute. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Yes, my first job after I left school was at Stan Pollard's. Today it's called Fossey's.
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And I was in the office and the - and the cash box, you know, where they And I was in the office and the - and the cash box, you know, where they
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pulled the string and the money would come. [Michael] Yeah. pulled the string and the money would come. [Michael] Yeah.
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And And
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I worked there for a while and then I worked there for a while and then
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- then, as I say, my dad was in the - had like, got this job in the post office - then, as I say, my dad was in the - had like, got this job in the post office
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and he was out - he was out at Breddan when the 10th child was born. and he was out - he was out at Breddan when the 10th child was born.
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And then I left Stan Pollard's and I went to Phillips & Enright, which is now 727, is it? [Michael] Thomasson's 7 - 727. [Margaret] Yeah, Thomasson's. [Michael] So that was - that was like a supermarket or a - And then I left Stan Pollard's and I went to Phillips & Enright, which is now 727, is it? [Michael] Thomasson's 7 - 727. [Margaret] Yeah, Thomasson's. [Michael] So that was - that was like a supermarket or a -
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[Margaret] Big - it was one, yeah, it was a grocery department. [Michael] Grocery department, right. [Margaret] Grocery - grocery store. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Big - it was one, yeah, it was a grocery department. [Michael] Grocery department, right. [Margaret] Grocery - grocery store. [Michael] Mmm.
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And oh, there was And oh, there was
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such a lot of people working there and I was up in the office again with another woman. such a lot of people working there and I was up in the office again with another woman.
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And And
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it - things were so different then, they were really so different. it - things were so different then, they were really so different.
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People were so casual and People were so casual and
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it was a really good business. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Because they were the ones who it was a really good business. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Because they were the ones who
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opened up the supermart out here. [Michael] Opened up um - [Margaret] Anthony Phillips - [Michael] PA Mart. [Margaret] Phillips Anthony. [Michael] Yeah, Phillips Anthony. [Margaret] The PA Mart. opened up the supermart out here. [Michael] Opened up um - [Margaret] Anthony Phillips - [Michael] PA Mart. [Margaret] Phillips Anthony. [Michael] Yeah, Phillips Anthony. [Margaret] The PA Mart.
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PA Mart. [Michael] Mmm. PA Mart. [Michael] Mmm.
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[Margaret] But I had a job there and then I got a job on the switchboard exchange. [Michael] Mmm-hmm. And that would have been a part of the post office as well? [Margaret] Yes, it was at the - well, I think it's still there, isn't it? Or there's something there. [Michael] Back of the - back of the post office. [Margaret] You know the back of the post office where the - well, I think that's been shifted though, the public phone box, hasn't it?  Well, it was along from there. Big door you went in there and all the girls sat up and [Margaret] But I had a job there and then I got a job on the switchboard exchange. [Michael] Mmm-hmm. And that would have been a part of the post office as well? [Margaret] Yes, it was at the - well, I think it's still there, isn't it? Or there's something there. [Michael] Back of the - back of the post office. [Margaret] You know the back of the post office where the - well, I think that's been shifted though, the public phone box, hasn't it?  Well, it was along from there. Big door you went in there and all the girls sat up and
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- and I also worked in the - and I also worked in the
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- in a cafe of a very great friend of mine. We were - we grew up together and her mum had a cafe over there where - in a cafe of a very great friend of mine. We were - we grew up together and her mum had a cafe over there where
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Son- Sonia's, the flower people. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] That was a cafe. Son- Sonia's, the flower people. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] That was a cafe.
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That was during the war I worked there. [Michael] That was just down from Cunninghams? [Margaret] Yes, yes. That was during the war I worked there. [Michael] That was just down from Cunninghams? [Margaret] Yes, yes.
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Someone - oh, no, I think - no, Sonia's bought the whole lot. Like, Sonia's was there and there was this place next door. Well, that was the cafe because where Sonia's is was a hairdresser. The hairdresser lived there. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Ah, worked there. But Someone - oh, no, I think - no, Sonia's bought the whole lot. Like, Sonia's was there and there was this place next door. Well, that was the cafe because where Sonia's is was a hairdresser. The hairdresser lived there. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Ah, worked there. But
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no, I worked in the cafe next door and oh, lots of no, I worked in the cafe next door and oh, lots of
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you know, soldiers and Yanks and Aussies came in there. [Michael] How did they treat you then? you know, soldiers and Yanks and Aussies came in there. [Michael] How did they treat you then?
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Oh, they were very good. They were very good, but I mean, Oh, they were very good. They were very good, but I mean,
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Elma, that was my friend, like, her mum had the cafe and we were two shy violets, you know, and we didn't, we - we didn't talk to them, we just took their order and then - [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] but they were very, very nice people. Elma, that was my friend, like, her mum had the cafe and we were two shy violets, you know, and we didn't, we - we didn't talk to them, we just took their order and then - [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] but they were very, very nice people.
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And then um - [Michael] Did you  And then um - [Michael] Did you 
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see much difference between the way the Australians treated you and the Americans treated you? [Margaret] No, but - well, we see much difference between the way the Australians treated you and the Americans treated you? [Margaret] No, but - well, we
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- the Australians, most - they were mostly um, air force men because they came in from Breddan. [Michael] Mmm-hmm. [Margaret] And they were very nice and we sort of - the Australians, most - they were mostly um, air force men because they came in from Breddan. [Michael] Mmm-hmm. [Margaret] And they were very nice and we sort of
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- later on we got to know a lot of them and we brought them into um - later on we got to know a lot of them and we brought them into um
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- we had a - we had a
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- a youth thing, you know, at the church. - a youth thing, you know, at the church.
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[Michael] What church was that where it was? [Margaret] Catholic Church. [Michael] The Carholic Church. [Margaret] You know,  [Michael] What church was that where it was? [Margaret] Catholic Church. [Michael] The Carholic Church. [Margaret] You know, 
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we were YCW, Young Catholic Workers. That's what we went under. [Michael] Mmm-hmm. [Margaret] But we brought all these young people in, young men and that. we were YCW, Young Catholic Workers. That's what we went under. [Michael] Mmm-hmm. [Margaret] But we brought all these young people in, young men and that.
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And we went on picnics And we went on picnics
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and we would go on and we would go on
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a picnic at night where you had to walk. We'd walk to one of the um, creeks down here, you know. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Um - a picnic at night where you had to walk. We'd walk to one of the um, creeks down here, you know. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] Um -
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[Michael] Gladstone Creek or Mosman Creek or - [Margaret] it was Gladstone Creek and further on. [Michael] Gladstone Creek or Mosman Creek or - [Margaret] it was Gladstone Creek and further on.
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And we'd have - [Michael] Plum Tree. [Margaret] oh, there - there would be about 70 of us and we'd all walk along and get in the creek. And the girls always brought the food and that and we'd have - play games. And always - we tried to make it always on a moonlight night - [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] because the moonlight night was just beautiful. You'd - you know, you could see. And we'd have - [Michael] Plum Tree. [Margaret] oh, there - there would be about 70 of us and we'd all walk along and get in the creek. And the girls always brought the food and that and we'd have - play games. And always - we tried to make it always on a moonlight night - [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] because the moonlight night was just beautiful. You'd - you know, you could see.
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And - or else we And - or else we
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would - see, vehicles were few and far between then, and we would hire a would - see, vehicles were few and far between then, and we would hire a
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big um, truck, they call them, you know, open back lorry sort of thing. [Michael] Mmm. big um, truck, they call them, you know, open back lorry sort of thing. [Michael] Mmm.
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And we'd sit on this lorry and, you know, And we'd sit on this lorry and, you know,
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we would sit on the edge and dangle our legs over. we would sit on the edge and dangle our legs over.
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It's a wonder some of us didn't go off with the wheels, eh? But you didn't think, you know? And we never had an accident. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And that would take us down to Macrossan. And the man who owned the - the lorry, It's a wonder some of us didn't go off with the wheels, eh? But you didn't think, you know? And we never had an accident. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And that would take us down to Macrossan. And the man who owned the - the lorry,
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we'd feed him for the day, you know, because he'd stay with us. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And we'd all come back on at night with that. we'd feed him for the day, you know, because he'd stay with us. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And we'd all come back on at night with that.
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When I think of it, here we are sitting - all of us sitting along the edge with our legs dangling over. [Joe] Mmm, that was the common practice then. [Michael] Mmm, yeah. [Margaret] Yeah. And no warnings, you know, "Put those legs up. You might get - they might get tangled up with the wheels." [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And then we went - we graduated from that to sort of closed in um - When I think of it, here we are sitting - all of us sitting along the edge with our legs dangling over. [Joe] Mmm, that was the common practice then. [Michael] Mmm, yeah. [Margaret] Yeah. And no warnings, you know, "Put those legs up. You might get - they might get tangled up with the wheels." [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And then we went - we graduated from that to sort of closed in um -
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Trucks, mmm. Trucks, mmm.
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Well, yes. Then there was one - one lorry, he - he had seats on the back, bolted to the floor, Well, yes. Then there was one - one lorry, he - he had seats on the back, bolted to the floor,
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but sides too, so you felt safe. but sides too, so you felt safe.
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And then we And then we
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had utilities and, you know, we went to all the places around and had picnics. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] It was wonderful. Wonderful. [Michael] And that was a part of the - the youth group for the - [Margaret] Yes. [Michael] Catholic Church? [Margaret] Yes, that's right. We did everything. And then we had dances here. Oh, through the war, there was a dance every night - every Friday night, every Friday night the dance was on at - [Michael] Mmm. had utilities and, you know, we went to all the places around and had picnics. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] It was wonderful. Wonderful. [Michael] And that was a part of the - the youth group for the - [Margaret] Yes. [Michael] Catholic Church? [Margaret] Yes, that's right. We did everything. And then we had dances here. Oh, through the war, there was a dance every night - every Friday night, every Friday night the dance was on at - [Michael] Mmm.
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[Margaret] St Columba's Hall. [Michael] Is that hall still there? No? [Margaret] Oh, yeah, the hall's there. [Joe] Mmm, [?yes, it kind of survived everything, that?] [speaking over] [Margaret] And there was - there was so many people [Margaret] St Columba's Hall. [Michael] Is that hall still there? No? [Margaret] Oh, yeah, the hall's there. [Joe] Mmm, [?yes, it kind of survived everything, that?] [speaking over] [Margaret] And there was - there was so many people
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and it was so hot and it was so hot
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and, and,
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you know, everyone was perspiring and that, so in the end the church decided to extend the hall. So that was much, much better then. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But um, you know, everyone was perspiring and that, so in the end the church decided to extend the hall. So that was much, much better then. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But um,
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a very sad thing happened in the war. Um, a very sad thing happened in the war. Um,
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there were WAAAFs, you know, the WAAAFies were at Macrossan. [Michael] Mmm. there were WAAAFs, you know, the WAAAFies were at Macrossan. [Michael] Mmm.
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On this night they - there was a big truck lad of the girls and the boys coming in for the dance. On this night they - there was a big truck lad of the girls and the boys coming in for the dance.
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And down the road a piece, they had a bad accident. And down the road a piece, they had a bad accident.
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And I don't know how many were killed, but it was a terribly sad thing. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] They stopped the dance even when they got the news. And I don't know how many were killed, but it was a terribly sad thing. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] They stopped the dance even when they got the news.
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And a young - one of the WAAAFies And a young - one of the WAAAFies
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lost her arm. And in the dark, of course, they stumbled over this and the arm was there and it had a watch and an engagement ring on it. lost her arm. And in the dark, of course, they stumbled over this and the arm was there and it had a watch and an engagement ring on it.
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And they - you know, a lot of people died that night. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] I wouldn't have a clue how many. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But they're buried out here in the war cemetery. And they - you know, a lot of people died that night. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] I wouldn't have a clue how many. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] But they're buried out here in the war cemetery.
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Mmm. Mmm.
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And then - And then -
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[Michael] I mean, that - [Margaret] Now, talk about how you were in the -  how the - [Joe] Well, [Michael] I mean, that - [Margaret] Now, talk about how you were in the -  how the - [Joe] Well,
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so really, they told us that we would be moving early in '42. so really, they told us that we would be moving early in '42.
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And so packing went on and And so packing went on and
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then the day came. then the day came.
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Most of the furniture and pews out of the chapel and all that kind of thing we took over to St Mary's, left them there. Most of the furniture and pews out of the chapel and all that kind of thing we took over to St Mary's, left them there.
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And then we were taken to the Park Hotel and introduced to our new surroundings. And then we were taken to the Park Hotel and introduced to our new surroundings.
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Dormitory Dormitory
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was under the house was under the house
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on the bare ground. on the bare ground.
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So [? a lot that were just?] stacked up against the bit of a concrete wall that was there along the side. [Michael] The Park Hotel was - was it being used at the time, Joe? [Joe] Oh, So [? a lot that were just?] stacked up against the bit of a concrete wall that was there along the side. [Michael] The Park Hotel was - was it being used at the time, Joe? [Joe] Oh,
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the Park Hotel, no. It was [? a bit locally known?]. It had been [...]. [speaking over] [Margaret] It closed - [Michael] [...] time. [Joe] And the Park Hotel, no. It was [? a bit locally known?]. It had been [...]. [speaking over] [Margaret] It closed - [Michael] [...] time. [Joe] And
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well, well,
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I didn't have much to do with it. I was only there for a very, very short time. [Michael] Mmm. Did you spend most of the time at the Retreat? [Joe] Mmm. [Michael] Yeah. [Joe] Oh, just at the beginning for a while we were at the Park Hotel while they were setting things up. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] Then I went over the Retreat. I didn't have much to do with it. I was only there for a very, very short time. [Michael] Mmm. Did you spend most of the time at the Retreat? [Joe] Mmm. [Michael] Yeah. [Joe] Oh, just at the beginning for a while we were at the Park Hotel while they were setting things up. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] Then I went over the Retreat.
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No, [? it was certainly?] an experience because No, [? it was certainly?] an experience because
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at at
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- although I hate to say it, but boarding school is a - has a prison-like atmosphere and we thought it was great to get into town, you know. [laughing] - although I hate to say it, but boarding school is a - has a prison-like atmosphere and we thought it was great to get into town, you know. [laughing]
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And really, we enjoyed them. And really, we enjoyed them.
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And this house was called the Retreat. And this house was called the Retreat.
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Tell us about the house and where it was. [Joe] The house Tell us about the house and where it was. [Joe] The house
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was just opposite Lissner Park on the corner and opposite the other way was the back of St Mary's. And was just opposite Lissner Park on the corner and opposite the other way was the back of St Mary's. And
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it was owned by a station owner it was owned by a station owner
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that's um, Mrs Salmon, I think her name was. [Margaret] Salmon, yeah. [Joe] Mmm. And she used to come in every fortnight and collect the rent. [Margaret] That was their town house. [Joe] Yeah. [Michael] Oh. [Margaret] When they came in to the town, they stayed at that place. that's um, Mrs Salmon, I think her name was. [Margaret] Salmon, yeah. [Joe] Mmm. And she used to come in every fortnight and collect the rent. [Margaret] That was their town house. [Joe] Yeah. [Michael] Oh. [Margaret] When they came in to the town, they stayed at that place.
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They very nicely loaned it to the [...]. [Joe] It was a beautiful house. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] Lovely. They very nicely loaned it to the [...]. [Joe] It was a beautiful house. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] Lovely.
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[Michael] It still - it still is, isn't it? I mean, [...]. [Joe] But it's been let go to rack and ruin a bit lately, I notice. [Michael] Yes, I've noticed it too. [Joe] Mmm. [Michael] It still - it still is, isn't it? I mean, [...]. [Joe] But it's been let go to rack and ruin a bit lately, I notice. [Michael] Yes, I've noticed it too. [Joe] Mmm.
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[Margaret] So did you have - were you taught in the meantime or - [Joe] Oh, yeah, yeah, we had a classroom, as you'd call it, but our classroom was a verandah. [Margaret] Oh. [Joe] And ah, [Margaret] So did you have - were you taught in the meantime or - [Joe] Oh, yeah, yeah, we had a classroom, as you'd call it, but our classroom was a verandah. [Margaret] Oh. [Joe] And ah,
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the Junior School was the Junior School was
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- I don't mean the primary, I mean the sub-junior - [Michael] Sub-junior. [Margaret] Yes, mmm. [Joe] We were inside in the main hall. It had a very big hall there. And - I don't mean the primary, I mean the sub-junior - [Michael] Sub-junior. [Margaret] Yes, mmm. [Joe] We were inside in the main hall. It had a very big hall there. And
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there were - were in the old days servants quarters and there were - were in the old days servants quarters and
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so Biddy, the lady who used to do the cooking [...], and one or two helpers used to be in those, and they had the ironing room, so Biddy, the lady who used to do the cooking [...], and one or two helpers used to be in those, and they had the ironing room,
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which also served as a which also served as a
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- as a - as a
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- as the laboratory for the science students. [Margaret] Oh. - as the laboratory for the science students. [Margaret] Oh.
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You wouldn't have had too many of them. [Joe] No. Everyone was down the back yard [...] some of the experiments they carried out down there. You wouldn't have had too many of them. [Joe] No. Everyone was down the back yard [...] some of the experiments they carried out down there.
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Every morning the chaplain used to come over and say mass. And um, Every morning the chaplain used to come over and say mass. And um,
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they brought over they brought over
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oh, things to oh, things to
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help us out. help us out.
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They brought over these horseshoes and taught us how to play this ring - horseshoe - the horseshoe game. Bit like our quoits, only long distance. They brought over these horseshoes and taught us how to play this ring - horseshoe - the horseshoe game. Bit like our quoits, only long distance.
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And some of us got quite proficient in that. And some of us got quite proficient in that.
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We set up a bit of a gym in the backyard and had a tent - tent down there. We set up a bit of a gym in the backyard and had a tent - tent down there.
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And ah, And ah,
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oh, you know, we made do. oh, you know, we made do.
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Go at night to the pictures and all this kind of thing instead of studying. [laughing] [...] much control. But then again, you know, most of the time we got along fine. In fact, I got fairly good passes in junior and senior. Go at night to the pictures and all this kind of thing instead of studying. [laughing] [...] much control. But then again, you know, most of the time we got along fine. In fact, I got fairly good passes in junior and senior.
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Well, we didn't do senior from there. It was - would have been back at school then, but the lead up to it was in there. Well, we didn't do senior from there. It was - would have been back at school then, but the lead up to it was in there.
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Did the Christian Brothers sleep there too? Did the Christian Brothers sleep there too?
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Had rooms. There were plenty of rooms there. Had rooms. There were plenty of rooms there.
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Had some along the ah, perimeter of the main house. Had some along the ah, perimeter of the main house.
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And then the little office is where Dr - [Margaret] Wright is now. [Joe] Wright is now. It was up by the gate and that was And then the little office is where Dr - [Margaret] Wright is now. [Joe] Wright is now. It was up by the gate and that was
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Brother O'Leary's Brother O'Leary's
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little haven. [Margaret] Mmm. [Joe] And he was the burser. little haven. [Margaret] Mmm. [Joe] And he was the burser.
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It was quite a cosy little atmosphere there and most of the primary people went over to ah, It was quite a cosy little atmosphere there and most of the primary people went over to ah,
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the Park Hotel. We didn't have all that much to do with them. And that's why people ask me about different ones and I'll say, "Well, I hardly knew them," you know, because they were way over so I can't - and the Park Hotel. We didn't have all that much to do with them. And that's why people ask me about different ones and I'll say, "Well, I hardly knew them," you know, because they were way over so I can't - and
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our contact our contact
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was only during some was only during some
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times when we went over there for meals. times when we went over there for meals.
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They had better cooking facilities over there, so we - we sometimes went over there and had our meals. Not a lot. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] Often. They had better cooking facilities over there, so we - we sometimes went over there and had our meals. Not a lot. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] Often.
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[Michael] And so the - Joe, you're saying that the Americans were still in the park in those days? [Joe] Oh, [...] time. Then they pulled out completely and Australian troops came in then and they took over quite a lot of the park. We didn't have as much contact with them as we did with the [Michael] And so the - Joe, you're saying that the Americans were still in the park in those days? [Joe] Oh, [...] time. Then they pulled out completely and Australian troops came in then and they took over quite a lot of the park. We didn't have as much contact with them as we did with the
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Americans, except that they took the cadets, and those in the cadets had a bit of a Americans, except that they took the cadets, and those in the cadets had a bit of a
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contact with them. And in fact one of their men, a sergeant, trained our cadets and so we would get to see them. We'd go over there for our marching and drill and - [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] that sort of stuff. Apart from that, we didn't have too much to do with them. We had a lot more to do with the Americans when they were there because they made a point of coming over to us. contact with them. And in fact one of their men, a sergeant, trained our cadets and so we would get to see them. We'd go over there for our marching and drill and - [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] that sort of stuff. Apart from that, we didn't have too much to do with them. We had a lot more to do with the Americans when they were there because they made a point of coming over to us.
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[...] treated the blacks. [...] treated the blacks.
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[?Yeah, before when ah?] [?Yeah, before when ah?]
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a few truckloads of a few truckloads of
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black Americans arrived at the park, and they'd come all the way from Darwin, I'd heard, black Americans arrived at the park, and they'd come all the way from Darwin, I'd heard,
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they'd come through back roads, and they were all dusty, dirty and everything, but before they arrived, they'd built a compound in the they'd come through back roads, and they were all dusty, dirty and everything, but before they arrived, they'd built a compound in the
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park. park.
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Immediately after they arrived, all the black people were shunted into this compound. [Margaret] Wire [...]. [Joe] And they stayed there for some days, you know, and we wondered, you know, sort of we couldn't believe it that their troops would be - [speaking over] [Margaret] [...]. [Joe] treated that way, you know. And now and then one of these blacks would get up and rant and rave about the way they were treated and Immediately after they arrived, all the black people were shunted into this compound. [Margaret] Wire [...]. [Joe] And they stayed there for some days, you know, and we wondered, you know, sort of we couldn't believe it that their troops would be - [speaking over] [Margaret] [...]. [Joe] treated that way, you know. And now and then one of these blacks would get up and rant and rave about the way they were treated and
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what they should do with the American whites and all the rest of it. what they should do with the American whites and all the rest of it.
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And ah, And ah,
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and yeah, I'd - I'd heard of that sort of thing in Africa, but I didn't think it existed in America. [Michael] Mmm. and yeah, I'd - I'd heard of that sort of thing in Africa, but I didn't think it existed in America. [Michael] Mmm.
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[Margaret] Defending their country. [Joe] Mmm, that [Margaret] Defending their country. [Joe] Mmm, that
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[...] and then we - [...] and then we -
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[Michael] So if you had - if you had more of this freedom then at the Retreat, that means that you would have had greater opportunities to be going out up the main street and - [Joe] Oh, yes. [Michael] seeing - [Michael] So if you had - if you had more of this freedom then at the Retreat, that means that you would have had greater opportunities to be going out up the main street and - [Joe] Oh, yes. [Michael] seeing -
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That is true. We went up quite a lot [?did all our?] shopping there to go That is true. We went up quite a lot [?did all our?] shopping there to go
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St Columba's and [?also then like we wouldn't have done if we were at?] the school - [Michael] Mmm. [Michael] at the time St Columba's and [?also then like we wouldn't have done if we were at?] the school - [Michael] Mmm. [Michael] at the time
26:03

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much freer in that respect. much freer in that respect.
26:05

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And because we didn't have much in the way of playgrounds, we had none, except the park, And because we didn't have much in the way of playgrounds, we had none, except the park,
26:12

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when the army didn't [...] when the army didn't [...]
26:17

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we were allowed to we were allowed to
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do training and run about the town. And we used to come over here to this little do training and run about the town. And we used to come over here to this little
26:25

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- just here, it's - just here, it's
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- was turned into a bike track in later years. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] And they used to call it Queens Park. - was turned into a bike track in later years. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] And they used to call it Queens Park.
26:34

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And we trained, used to run a few hundred - And we trained, used to run a few hundred -
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[Margaret] [...]. [Joe] Mmm. [Margaret] [...]. [Joe] Mmm.
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[Margaret] Like a [...]. [Joe] Mmm, pretty rough [...] was - [Margaret] Like a [...]. [Joe] Mmm, pretty rough [...] was -
26:47

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[Margaret] And ah, they used to have - when the circus would come to town, the circus would come here, we'd come down here. This was when we were kids. [Joe] In later years, yeah. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] When we were living here, the circus would come to town and they'd bring all the tents and animals here, just in - [Michael] That's - that's been [Margaret] And ah, they used to have - when the circus would come to town, the circus would come here, we'd come down here. This was when we were kids. [Joe] In later years, yeah. [Michael] Mmm. [Joe] When we were living here, the circus would come to town and they'd bring all the tents and animals here, just in - [Michael] That's - that's been
27:04

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[...] I'm sure I can remember a circus when the circus came to town. [Margaret] You must - [Joe] Yeah. [Margaret] You must be. [Michael] Yeah. [Margaret] Are you a Charters Towers [...]? [Michael] No, the last - I was saying before, I [...] I'm sure I can remember a circus when the circus came to town. [Margaret] You must - [Joe] Yeah. [Margaret] You must be. [Michael] Yeah. [Margaret] Are you a Charters Towers [...]? [Michael] No, the last - I was saying before, I
27:15

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- and that's when I first met Lenny, you see. [Margaret] Oh. [Joe] Oh, yeah. [Margaret] Well, see, Charters Towers - [Joe] Well, they used to - [Margaret] [...] the circus. [Michael] Yeah. [Joe] Yeah. [Michael] Mmm. - and that's when I first met Lenny, you see. [Margaret] Oh. [Joe] Oh, yeah. [Margaret] Well, see, Charters Towers - [Joe] Well, they used to - [Margaret] [...] the circus. [Michael] Yeah. [Joe] Yeah. [Michael] Mmm.
27:23

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[Joe] [...] to us and they'd ask us could they water the animals here because there was no water over there. So - [Margaret] And they'd put the big elephants - [Joe] [...] to us and they'd ask us could they water the animals here because there was no water over there. So - [Margaret] And they'd put the big elephants -
27:29

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[Joe] the elephants and camels and the rest would come trooping into my backyard - [Margaret] And - and um - and then they'd - [Joe] and the kids loved it, eh? [Margaret] they'd come and use our toilet and they'd come across here.  [Joe] Oh, yeah, they'd come, yeah. [Margaret] And see, all the kids slept on the verandah then. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And um, [Joe] the elephants and camels and the rest would come trooping into my backyard - [Margaret] And - and um - and then they'd - [Joe] and the kids loved it, eh? [Margaret] they'd come and use our toilet and they'd come across here.  [Joe] Oh, yeah, they'd come, yeah. [Margaret] And see, all the kids slept on the verandah then. [Michael] Mmm. [Margaret] And um,
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one of the circus people, a couple of them, they had this little baby and they brought the baby over and it was in the cot and they left it here because it was um - one of the circus people, a couple of them, they had this little baby and they brought the baby over and it was in the cot and they left it here because it was um -
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[Michael] I was going to say it'd be - [Margaret] It was very - [Michael] pretty dusty and pretty - [speaking over]  [Margaret] Yes, it was shocking over there. Mmm. [Michael] pretty - [...] [Michael] I was going to say it'd be - [Margaret] It was very - [Michael] pretty dusty and pretty - [speaking over]  [Margaret] Yes, it was shocking over there. Mmm. [Michael] pretty - [...]
28:01

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Free [...] - [Margaret] Free [...]. Free [...] - [Margaret] Free [...].
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that was [...]. [Joe] Yeah, a lot of that [...] - [speaking over]  [Margaret] That was a fair exchange. [Joe] troop over there. [Margaret] So [...] that was [...]. [Joe] Yeah, a lot of that [...] - [speaking over]  [Margaret] That was a fair exchange. [Joe] troop over there. [Margaret] So [...]
28:08

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[?too?]. [?too?].
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And remember - [Joe] Oh, yes. [Margaret] the monkey got loose? [Joe] [...]. And remember - [Joe] Oh, yes. [Margaret] the monkey got loose? [Joe] [...].