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0:01

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This is Leslie Jenkins conducting an interview with Therese Cosgrove on the 29th of July 2008 for the Kurilpa Childcare Centre History.  Therese can I start by asking you your full name and your date and place of birth? OK, my name is Terese Leanne Charters Cosgrove and I was born in Gilgandra, NSW on the 26th of March 2000 and oh 1968. Gawd, there you go. [laughter] This is Leslie Jenkins conducting an interview with Therese Cosgrove on the 29th of July 2008 for the Kurilpa Childcare Centre History.  Therese can I start by asking you your full name and your date and place of birth? OK, my name is Terese Leanne Charters Cosgrove and I was born in Gilgandra, NSW on the 26th of March 2000 and oh 1968. Gawd, there you go. [laughter]
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And we also have Olivia here with us. And Olivia is 7 weeks old. Eight weeks now. 8 weeks old. So she may add her little bit. [laughs] And we also have Olivia here with us. And Olivia is 7 weeks old. Eight weeks now. 8 weeks old. So she may add her little bit. [laughs]
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Can you can you tell me a little bit about starting work as a childcare worker? Okay. Where did you work before you worked at Kurilpa? I graduated from Bathurst Charles Sturt University and went to Sydney and worked as a preschool teacher in Saint Ives, in Sydney for two years. And then I went overseas for three years and travelled with my husband. So whilst overseas I nannied in London and then worked in a childcare centre, Can you can you tell me a little bit about starting work as a childcare worker? Okay. Where did you work before you worked at Kurilpa? I graduated from Bathurst Charles Sturt University and went to Sydney and worked as a preschool teacher in Saint Ives, in Sydney for two years. And then I went overseas for three years and travelled with my husband. So whilst overseas I nannied in London and then worked in a childcare centre,
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In Vancouver, Canada. The first six months I was a teacher and then the second six months I took on the directorship of the service. In Vancouver, Canada. The first six months I was a teacher and then the second six months I took on the directorship of the service.
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When we came back from that trip I worked in a country, NSW in a council based childcare centre for a few months on contract. When we came back from that trip I worked in a country, NSW in a council based childcare centre for a few months on contract.
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Then I went to Sydney and worked in Sydney at a private childcare centre for a year before my husband was transferred to Brisbane with work. Then I went to Sydney and worked in Sydney at a private childcare centre for a year before my husband was transferred to Brisbane with work.
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When we came up here and I worked at Kurilpa, that was my last full time childcare position, and I've moved on to other facets of childcare work. Now did you want to go on about that? Yeah. OK, so I worked at Kurilpa for a 7 1/2 years. The first three years were full time, and then once I had Isabella, I went part time. I worked three days a week and Sue Richards came on as the Co-director two days a week. When we came up here and I worked at Kurilpa, that was my last full time childcare position, and I've moved on to other facets of childcare work. Now did you want to go on about that? Yeah. OK, so I worked at Kurilpa for a 7 1/2 years. The first three years were full time, and then once I had Isabella, I went part time. I worked three days a week and Sue Richards came on as the Co-director two days a week.
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Have you spoken to Sue at all? No. OK. Have you spoken to Sue at all? No. OK.
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And I also had another Co director, Melissa Watson, who was only on worked for one year down to [C4] before I left. And I also had another Co director, Melissa Watson, who was only on worked for one year down to [C4] before I left.
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After I left Kurilpa, I then went on to do consultancy work, which was where I worked from home and for the outside school hours care services at West End State School and Carina State School. And that was a consultancy role where I worked on policy development and helped incorporate the new legislation that was just being inducted into all that that sector of childcare. After I left Kurilpa, I then went on to do consultancy work, which was where I worked from home and for the outside school hours care services at West End State School and Carina State School. And that was a consultancy role where I worked on policy development and helped incorporate the new legislation that was just being inducted into all that that sector of childcare.
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I also worked on grants for those services to try and raise their facilities to the standards required and there was also a accreditation coming through for Outside School Hours care services which was new. So not only were they getting licensed for the first time, they were going through the National I also worked on grants for those services to try and raise their facilities to the standards required and there was also a accreditation coming through for Outside School Hours care services which was new. So not only were they getting licensed for the first time, they were going through the National
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Accreditation system. Then in 2006 I did a contract position with the Department of Communities as a childcare resource officer, purely for outside school healthcare services, licensing them because that was the the first year of licensing services. Accreditation system. Then in 2006 I did a contract position with the Department of Communities as a childcare resource officer, purely for outside school healthcare services, licensing them because that was the the first year of licensing services.
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And then in 2007, in April, I commenced another position with the Department of Communities at Bayside Service as a beginner Childcare Resource Officer, but doing all facets of their their position. And then in 2007, in April, I commenced another position with the Department of Communities at Bayside Service as a beginner Childcare Resource Officer, but doing all facets of their their position.
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And just a month ago I got given the permanent position of And just a month ago I got given the permanent position of
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Olivia I think it's taped. [laughs] Olivia I think it's taped. [laughs]
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Of of a childcare officer of two days a week. So I get to have my maternity leave and then go back to work next year and..At the job you last had? Yes, yes. Of of a childcare officer of two days a week. So I get to have my maternity leave and then go back to work next year and..At the job you last had? Yes, yes.
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Excuse me. So what I was doing at Bayside was a contract job, which is how you always primarily start with the Department. You do contract work with them and then they fill that position permanently or they take that position away, just depends on financial constraints. So yeah, so I was, I put in my selection criteria just before I had a Olivia and then when Olivia was Excuse me. So what I was doing at Bayside was a contract job, which is how you always primarily start with the Department. You do contract work with them and then they fill that position permanently or they take that position away, just depends on financial constraints. So yeah, so I was, I put in my selection criteria just before I had a Olivia and then when Olivia was
4:16

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Ohh, how old were you? Maybe 16 days old. We had an interview, so she came in on the interview with me which was very funny wasn't it? Yes, I won the positions. That's very exciting. So and that's where I've sort of basically run that trail. I've done a lot of different things in childcare. So but always ..So you worked at private childcare centres as well as community based ones like Kurilpa?. Yes yes. So the preschool that I very first worked at Saint Ives was community based and it was the Ohh, how old were you? Maybe 16 days old. We had an interview, so she came in on the interview with me which was very funny wasn't it? Yes, I won the positions. That's very exciting. So and that's where I've sort of basically run that trail. I've done a lot of different things in childcare. So but always ..So you worked at private childcare centres as well as community based ones like Kurilpa?. Yes yes. So the preschool that I very first worked at Saint Ives was community based and it was the
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very old service established for many, many years, similar to Kurilpa, sort of life, in a very affluent suburb. So we we wanted for nothing. It was beautiful to work there. very old service established for many, many years, similar to Kurilpa, sort of life, in a very affluent suburb. So we we wanted for nothing. It was beautiful to work there.
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Then when I went to Canada, I worked in a private and that was my very first experience in private childcare centres. Excuse me. Then when I went to Canada, I worked in a private and that was my very first experience in private childcare centres. Excuse me.
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As well as working in childcare. I hadn't worked in childcare before as well and their childcare in Canada is very different, or was back then - very different. Very few Qualified staff, programming was very different. The expectations was very low. And I found that really hard coming from being a preschool teacher trained to do that sort of position, to coming into childcare where it was, you know, very little expectation from you and what you needed to deliver or give to the children. So do you have a diploma in teaching? I have a  Bachelor of Education and As well as working in childcare. I hadn't worked in childcare before as well and their childcare in Canada is very different, or was back then - very different. Very few Qualified staff, programming was very different. The expectations was very low. And I found that really hard coming from being a preschool teacher trained to do that sort of position, to coming into childcare where it was, you know, very little expectation from you and what you needed to deliver or give to the children. So do you have a diploma in teaching? I have a  Bachelor of Education and
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and majored in early childhood studies. Yeah, so the first three years were internal, Internal within the the college, and then I went external for my final two years. Is it the position wasn't offered. You couldn't do a four year course back then. And when you were working as a director at Ku Kurilpa and majored in early childhood studies. Yeah, so the first three years were internal, Internal within the the college, and then I went external for my final two years. Is it the position wasn't offered. You couldn't do a four year course back then. And when you were working as a director at Ku Kurilpa
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which union would would be supporting you with the qualifications you had the job you had? Miscellaneous Workers Union in in NSW it was completely different. The teachers union I was under because I was a teacher and the support staff at the childcare centres were with the Miscellaneous Workers Union. So when I came up here it was very, very different. which union would would be supporting you with the qualifications you had the job you had? Miscellaneous Workers Union in in NSW it was completely different. The teachers union I was under because I was a teacher and the support staff at the childcare centres were with the Miscellaneous Workers Union. So when I came up here it was very, very different.
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Very, very different to to NSW. The standards are very different as well. Very, very different to to NSW. The standards are very different as well.
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The standards, the pay. I gotta, I think I had about a $8000 pay cut coming to work in Queensland. So it was it was really hard it was like 'ohh', working conditions were much harder up here, you worked longer hours. There were lots of different things and those changed as time went long. So is it still is it on a par now with NSW or is it still behind? No still behind. The standards, the pay. I gotta, I think I had about a $8000 pay cut coming to work in Queensland. So it was it was really hard it was like 'ohh', working conditions were much harder up here, you worked longer hours. There were lots of different things and those changed as time went long. So is it still is it on a par now with NSW or is it still behind? No still behind.
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So and that I always found very confronting and confronting from the point of view that here in Queensland that if you were a preschool teacher you got paid more than if you were a Director of a childcare centre. Even though you worked longer hours in a childcare centre because you were deemed not to be teaching, you weren't therefore paid like a teacher. And I just I found it very confronting when I very first started because like I worked really hard and I work hard for the service and and hard for their parents to make sure the programming is good and, So and that I always found very confronting and confronting from the point of view that here in Queensland that if you were a preschool teacher you got paid more than if you were a Director of a childcare centre. Even though you worked longer hours in a childcare centre because you were deemed not to be teaching, you weren't therefore paid like a teacher. And I just I found it very confronting when I very first started because like I worked really hard and I work hard for the service and and hard for their parents to make sure the programming is good and,
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so.. So what do you think some of the differences are between so.. So what do you think some of the differences are between
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say a place like Kurilpa and a private say a place like Kurilpa and a private
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child care centre like ABC? And I can comment on that because of I go into lots of different services now. My role as a childcare resource officer, I go out to all sorts of childcare centres and licence them under the State legislation. That's that's my job now. So I do see lots of different private centres and there's as different as as as community based to private. For me the main difference is that staff tend to be more long term in community based services. They know that they're they're child care centre like ABC? And I can comment on that because of I go into lots of different services now. My role as a childcare resource officer, I go out to all sorts of childcare centres and licence them under the State legislation. That's that's my job now. So I do see lots of different private centres and there's as different as as as community based to private. For me the main difference is that staff tend to be more long term in community based services. They know that they're they're
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I think they're better looked after in community based because the management committee is there to ensure that their children are looked after well and so therefore they look after the staff very well and staff conditions tend to be a little bit better. I think they're better looked after in community based because the management committee is there to ensure that their children are looked after well and so therefore they look after the staff very well and staff conditions tend to be a little bit better.
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I I also feel that you have more control or more say in what happens in a community based service that I had a dual role, I was a staff member at the childcare centre and then my children came on board and were enrolled in Kurilpa. So I was a parent there as well. So you always felt like you had a little more say in what happened in major decisions that were taking place within the service, as well as just you know that any monies that were raised went back to the care of your children, I I also feel that you have more control or more say in what happens in a community based service that I had a dual role, I was a staff member at the childcare centre and then my children came on board and were enrolled in Kurilpa. So I was a parent there as well. So you always felt like you had a little more say in what happened in major decisions that were taking place within the service, as well as just you know that any monies that were raised went back to the care of your children,
8:41

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to buying more toys, to improving the facilities or, to buying more toys, to improving the facilities or,
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giving the teacher the teachers more professional development, those sorts of things, so just peace of mind, I think.For a lot of private centres the staff are very, very young. So to me it's that you don't have that level of experience that in my time at Kurilpa we had a lot of staff that were, you know, my age now 30, 40 and 50, and they brought a lot of wealth of experience of their own children as well as just the the number of years they had been in childcare, whereas now you have giving the teacher the teachers more professional development, those sorts of things, so just peace of mind, I think.For a lot of private centres the staff are very, very young. So to me it's that you don't have that level of experience that in my time at Kurilpa we had a lot of staff that were, you know, my age now 30, 40 and 50, and they brought a lot of wealth of experience of their own children as well as just the the number of years they had been in childcare, whereas now you have
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girls straight out of school and you know they love kids and they want to work in in childcare, but it's more than just having a love of children to to be a good carer, so that's probably the main differences I'd say. Mm. girls straight out of school and you know they love kids and they want to work in in childcare, but it's more than just having a love of children to to be a good carer, so that's probably the main differences I'd say. Mm.
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And tell me, when you started at Kurilpa, what year it was? It was 1996 in August. And tell me, when you started at Kurilpa, what year it was? It was 1996 in August.
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OK. And in 1996, where was the childcare centre located? In Boundary St. OK, can you describe the the centre in Boundary St, in 1996? What facilities did it have? It was very old. OK. And in 1996, where was the childcare centre located? In Boundary St. OK, can you describe the the centre in Boundary St, in 1996? What facilities did it have? It was very old.
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Some components of it were quite run down but that was to me was the character and the thing that lured me to work there because I felt that many childcare centres were extremely sterile and not welcoming, whereas Kurilpa had a real to me, a real family and home environment to it, welcome feeling to it and um Some components of it were quite run down but that was to me was the character and the thing that lured me to work there because I felt that many childcare centres were extremely sterile and not welcoming, whereas Kurilpa had a real to me, a real family and home environment to it, welcome feeling to it and um
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and lots of parents commented on that too. Yeah, sure, everything was bashed and battered, but it felt good and it felt like that the children could play and not have to worry about marking the walls. Or staff weren't constantly cleaning, which is often an issue in in private centres as they've got to clean all the time to keep it looking spotless. So that didn't happen. and lots of parents commented on that too. Yeah, sure, everything was bashed and battered, but it felt good and it felt like that the children could play and not have to worry about marking the walls. Or staff weren't constantly cleaning, which is often an issue in in private centres as they've got to clean all the time to keep it looking spotless. So that didn't happen.
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The old Kurilpa just after I started we had a new mural painted on the the front wall of the of the of the service. I don't know whether you've got a photo of the service? Do you have any photos? Ohh there's one at Kurilpa because I took it and had it blown up when we moved. The old Kurilpa just after I started we had a new mural painted on the the front wall of the of the of the service. I don't know whether you've got a photo of the service? Do you have any photos? Ohh there's one at Kurilpa because I took it and had it blown up when we moved.
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So just ask the current directors if they can find it. So just ask the current directors if they can find it.
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I probably would have someone, one, but it would be... Somewhere [laughter] I probably would have someone, one, but it would be... Somewhere [laughter]
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In the realms, in the boxes, in the, in the garage. But I mean, I definitely know over time I could try and find it. But yes, I definitely went back and took a photo of the very front of the service. In the realms, in the boxes, in the, in the garage. But I mean, I definitely know over time I could try and find it. But yes, I definitely went back and took a photo of the very front of the service.
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And I'm wondering whether there was a photo taken for the local paper of the mural. And I'm wondering whether there was a photo taken for the local paper of the mural.
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Because it was a local artist who did the painting and he did it Because it was a local artist who did the painting and he did it
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Only for the costs of the paint, he was a young guy. He just came in one day and said the mural that was on the wall was just by parents. Only for the costs of the paint, he was a young guy. He just came in one day and said the mural that was on the wall was just by parents.
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And  the children, and he said, 'ohh, you know, I want to advertise my business, if you pay for the paints, I'll paint a new mural.'. So he did that. And that was within my first year at Kurilpa that that happened and it was lovely. It was a seascape, so it's quite pretty. And  the children, and he said, 'ohh, you know, I want to advertise my business, if you pay for the paints, I'll paint a new mural.'. So he did that. And that was within my first year at Kurilpa that that happened and it was lovely. It was a seascape, so it's quite pretty.
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We did a lot of fundraising for trying to and grant applications for trying to improve the facilities that were at Old Kurilpa. The nursery, the playground was all dirt and so we gained a community We did a lot of fundraising for trying to and grant applications for trying to improve the facilities that were at Old Kurilpa. The nursery, the playground was all dirt and so we gained a community
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Gambling grant to putting down an artificial turf. Gambling grant to putting down an artificial turf.
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And the same in the toddler room, which wasn't it a a semi enclosed playground that had a Percola type roof and was sort of within the within the the the confines of the service. We put down new artificial turf there as well because And the same in the toddler room, which wasn't it a a semi enclosed playground that had a Percola type roof and was sort of within the within the the the confines of the service. We put down new artificial turf there as well because
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It had turf down but it had no no soft floor component to it, so we put new soft floor down. It had turf down but it had no no soft floor component to it, so we put new soft floor down.
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And then about two years before we actually moved from Kurilpa, we gained another grant and put down a a very big shade cover out in the main playground because we didn't have a lot of shade out there. It was such a rare size of playground, it was like a And then about two years before we actually moved from Kurilpa, we gained another grant and put down a a very big shade cover out in the main playground because we didn't have a lot of shade out there. It was such a rare size of playground, it was like a
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A normal building block, if not two building blocks compared to West End sizes of houses now. So it was very lucrative land to have. There used to be houses on there. Have you been told that story of the? No you you tell me I've got some details.. Okay Alright the wall I I know not no do not know a lot but Jenny Bridge could help more - there used to be two houses on there and A normal building block, if not two building blocks compared to West End sizes of houses now. So it was very lucrative land to have. There used to be houses on there. Have you been told that story of the? No you you tell me I've got some details.. Okay Alright the wall I I know not no do not know a lot but Jenny Bridge could help more - there used to be two houses on there and
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The management committee aeons ago had bought them for the sake of renting them out for funds to help run Kurilpa.  And then there were some legislative change and they weren't allowed to do that anymore. I don't know why. I don't know what happened. So then the buildings were demolished and they made-up the playground. And so we had this beautiful, elaborate playground for the children to play in. The management committee aeons ago had bought them for the sake of renting them out for funds to help run Kurilpa.  And then there were some legislative change and they weren't allowed to do that anymore. I don't know why. I don't know what happened. So then the buildings were demolished and they made-up the playground. And so we had this beautiful, elaborate playground for the children to play in.
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And.. So that didn't involve demolishing houses. They were already demolished? No, I think they had to demolish those. Ohh I see and that's why you had such a big playground? Yeah, yeah, it was huge. Absolutely huge for West End sizes. And.. So that didn't involve demolishing houses. They were already demolished? No, I think they had to demolish those. Ohh I see and that's why you had such a big playground? Yeah, yeah, it was huge. Absolutely huge for West End sizes.
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Yes. So I I, I, yeah, that happened a long, long time before I started. I just know that very basic story, that Yes. So I I, I, yeah, that happened a long, long time before I started. I just know that very basic story, that
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That the committees had bought them - the houses adjoining the the the service. That the committees had bought them - the houses adjoining the the the service.
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Because they thought it would be a good way of raising funds and I don't understand why it was those monies couldn't be used to help in the running, but there was some Because they thought it would be a good way of raising funds and I don't understand why it was those monies couldn't be used to help in the running, but there was some
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Governmental reasoning behind that, so I'm not sure. Governmental reasoning behind that, so I'm not sure.
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That um That um
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And we also had hanging over our heads when I very first started, the new Childcare Act had just come into effect. And we also had hanging over our heads when I very first started, the new Childcare Act had just come into effect.
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And I think it was the 1990 or 1991 Childcare Act and with that came certain requirements that the building requirements that the service had to meet and I think they were given. And I think it was the 1990 or 1991 Childcare Act and with that came certain requirements that the building requirements that the service had to meet and I think they were given.
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5 or 10 years to meet that deadline. 5 or 10 years to meet that deadline.
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But we never had the fa - money to But we never had the fa - money to
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To sink into raising the funds to meet the requirements. The Toddler room wasn't big enough and the ceiling wasn't high enough, if I remember correctly. To sink into raising the funds to meet the requirements. The Toddler room wasn't big enough and the ceiling wasn't high enough, if I remember correctly.
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We needed to put in We needed to put in
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A better office facilities and staffroom facilities. So that's when the decision was made that OK, maybe we should look at moving somewhere else and starting afresh because there were so many plumbing issues for old Kurilpa we - tree roots were constantly in growing into the plumbing and so it was often backups happening, and because old Kurilpa was built into the slope of the land, the very back of Kurilpa would flood all the time and so when it rained A better office facilities and staffroom facilities. So that's when the decision was made that OK, maybe we should look at moving somewhere else and starting afresh because there were so many plumbing issues for old Kurilpa we - tree roots were constantly in growing into the plumbing and so it was often backups happening, and because old Kurilpa was built into the slope of the land, the very back of Kurilpa would flood all the time and so when it rained
15:30

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I know the staff would go out and swish the water off the back verandah which was I know the staff would go out and swish the water off the back verandah which was
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led into the kindy and preschool rooms we'd sweep the water down into the gullies to to try and stop from flooding inside the centre. Because if it rained on the weekends, those rooms were flooded out. led into the kindy and preschool rooms we'd sweep the water down into the gullies to to try and stop from flooding inside the centre. Because if it rained on the weekends, those rooms were flooded out.
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Because the drains weren't capable of taking all that that water in. Because the drains weren't capable of taking all that that water in.
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Might need to change her nappy. Do you want to stop? Yeah. Might need to change her nappy. Do you want to stop? Yeah.
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We'll go change your nappy. We'll go change your nappy.