Amplify

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Language	English (Australian)	“Colour” not “Color”, “Organise” not “Organize”
Contractions	Transcribe as you hear them	“Shoulda”, “Didn’t”
Filled Pauses & Hesitations	Transcribe as you hear them	“ah”, “eh”, “um”
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Partial words	If someone stops speaking in the middle of a word, transcribe as much of the word as they say; follow it with a comma	“Tes, Testing”, “Absolu, Absolutely”
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0:02

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This is Noelene Grace interviewing Nola Mackey on the 24th of September 2009 as part of the Grafton New 3A Oral History Project for Grafton Sesquicentennial celebrations. This is Noelene Grace interviewing Nola Mackey on the 24th of September 2009 as part of the Grafton New 3A Oral History Project for Grafton Sesquicentennial celebrations.

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Thank you, Nola, for coming today. Thank you, Nola, for coming today.

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Part of this project, just like to ask you a few questions. Where were you born, Nola? [Nola] I was actually born on the Tweed, at Murwillumbah on the Tweed and just after the war in 1947. At a private hospital. It's well known up there, it's called Sunny Bank Private Hospital under Matron Bowman and she's reputed to have brought over 600 babies into the world during her career. Part of this project, just like to ask you a few questions. Where were you born, Nola? [Nola] I was actually born on the Tweed, at Murwillumbah on the Tweed and just after the war in 1947. At a private hospital. It's well known up there, it's called Sunny Bank Private Hospital under Matron Bowman and she's reputed to have brought over 600 babies into the world during her career.

0:46

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We moved to. We moved to.

0:51

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A house close to my grandparents after I was born because mum was very lonely to where we had lived. She when she lived soon after marriage so we went back to live near my grandparents. They had been on the Tweed since 1913. Since their early marriage my grandmother grandfather was on mum's side were brought up on. A house close to my grandparents after I was born because mum was very lonely to where we had lived. She when she lived soon after marriage so we went back to live near my grandparents. They had been on the Tweed since 1913. Since their early marriage my grandmother grandfather was on mum's side were brought up on.

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Eddie Picton in the South Coast. Eddie Picton in the South Coast.

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And grandfather moved to the North Coast to prior to his marriage to raise money to for his because he previously worked for his own parents. So he wanted to raise money to establish himself. So he came up to the Tweed to actually clear some of the timber blocks. And a coincidence was that he actually cleared the. And grandfather moved to the North Coast to prior to his marriage to raise money to for his because he previously worked for his own parents. So he wanted to raise money to establish himself. So he came up to the Tweed to actually clear some of the timber blocks. And a coincidence was that he actually cleared the.

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Timber selection of my father's father and 40 years later. Timber selection of my father's father and 40 years later.

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It's the siblings now. The offspring actually met and married, and it was a really interesting coincidence because they didn't even move in the same areas. And that's what happened. [Noelene] So it was fate. [Nola] It was certainly fate. And then after we moved back to New, I went to a small school, kind of school, which was just straight opposite where we lived. It's the siblings now. The offspring actually met and married, and it was a really interesting coincidence because they didn't even move in the same areas. And that's what happened. [Noelene] So it was fate. [Nola] It was certainly fate. And then after we moved back to New, I went to a small school, kind of school, which was just straight opposite where we lived.

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Started just after my 5th birthday. Started just after my 5th birthday.

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Excited going to school because I was really and truly looking forward to it 'cause I wanted to be a teacher. And mum said she drove, I drove her mad. Teaching my dolls with the the chalk on the pavement and telling them all what they're supposed to be doing. The interesting thing was that there was no other children in kindergarten, and so the teacher who had about 20 students ranging from five years old to up. Excited going to school because I was really and truly looking forward to it 'cause I wanted to be a teacher. And mum said she drove, I drove her mad. Teaching my dolls with the the chalk on the pavement and telling them all what they're supposed to be doing. The interesting thing was that there was no other children in kindergarten, and so the teacher who had about 20 students ranging from five years old to up.

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About 16 because it was in those days that they could go on to. About 16 because it was in those days that they could go on to.

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The high school, but an extension of primary, it was called super primary. If they weren't going on to high school to and they had to stay at school till 11:15. Well that's what they did, Super primary. So he had a couple of boys were close to their 16th birthday there. So he decided that he put me in first class because of those children in the first class. Then of course the next year those ones in the first class moved and so there was nobody going to be in. The high school, but an extension of primary, it was called super primary. If they weren't going on to high school to and they had to stay at school till 11:15. Well that's what they did, Super primary. So he had a couple of boys were close to their 16th birthday there. So he decided that he put me in first class because of those children in the first class. Then of course the next year those ones in the first class moved and so there was nobody going to be in.

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Second class. So I skipped second class, too, and went straight into third class and it wasn't evident because I was. Second class. So I skipped second class, too, and went straight into third class and it wasn't evident because I was.

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Very able to as far as. Very able to as far as.

3:43

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Ollie and in classroom and that like I could hold my own, but I could not read nor could I write sentences. One of the problems was I was left-handed and the teachers then insisted and they used to be picked up a pencil in your right left hand. You were hit with a steel ruler to make your change. Then of course I was very clumsy because I had knew I had to write the other hand. Then I dropped the pencil all the time and. Ollie and in classroom and that like I could hold my own, but I could not read nor could I write sentences. One of the problems was I was left-handed and the teachers then insisted and they used to be picked up a pencil in your right left hand. You were hit with a steel ruler to make your change. Then of course I was very clumsy because I had knew I had to write the other hand. Then I dropped the pencil all the time and.

4:12

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Lead pencils dropped all the time. Of course, I've always break the pencil so they tie it on a piece of string around my neck. Lead pencils dropped all the time. Of course, I've always break the pencil so they tie it on a piece of string around my neck.

4:19

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[Nola] And you would think this would scar me for life, but it didn't. [Noelene] Mmm, yes, it's a wonder you wrote at all. [Nola] And you would think this would scar me for life, but it didn't. [Noelene] Mmm, yes, it's a wonder you wrote at all.

4:24

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Then when I went into was in 3rd class and then went into 4th class and so I was only 8 years old and ready to go into 5th class. But at the end of that year we moved to our own home closer to my grandparent's home farm and I went to another small school where there was actually 30 children but they were all first cousins to each, not all to the same person, but every child in. Then when I went into was in 3rd class and then went into 4th class and so I was only 8 years old and ready to go into 5th class. But at the end of that year we moved to our own home closer to my grandparent's home farm and I went to another small school where there was actually 30 children but they were all first cousins to each, not all to the same person, but every child in.

4:52

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The school had a first cousin there also, and so many many were related to us because they were grandma and grandfather. The school had a first cousin there also, and so many many were related to us because they were grandma and grandfather.

5:01

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Their their aunt 'cause they were married other people in the district, so we were mostly related. And of course the teacher had to think that here I was going into 5th class, could not read and write. And the comments were that I was lazy, um, that I couldn't read and write that stage I must have been lazy. Their their aunt 'cause they were married other people in the district, so we were mostly related. And of course the teacher had to think that here I was going into 5th class, could not read and write. And the comments were that I was lazy, um, that I couldn't read and write that stage I must have been lazy.

5:23

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Disruptive in the classroom because I kept on wanting to ask questions, but the teacher he was really before his time because he was one of the first he was making teaching aids in the primary schools that of course small school just didn't do those kind of things He was he did spend a lot of time making. Disruptive in the classroom because I kept on wanting to ask questions, but the teacher he was really before his time because he was one of the first he was making teaching aids in the primary schools that of course small school just didn't do those kind of things He was he did spend a lot of time making.

5:45

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Charts and aids that you could go on with your work at your own pace and he could actually guide you in it. And he did that for me. He made me repeat 4th class because I was too young and I couldn't read and write. And then when I went, I went into 5th class and then I went into 6th class. But at the end of 6th class I wasn't old enough. In high school, I was still only 11. You had to be 12. Charts and aids that you could go on with your work at your own pace and he could actually guide you in it. And he did that for me. He made me repeat 4th class because I was too young and I couldn't read and write. And then when I went, I went into 5th class and then I went into 6th class. But at the end of 6th class I wasn't old enough. In high school, I was still only 11. You had to be 12.

6:10

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So convinced mum and dad to repeat me again in 6th class, but he said he wanted to for me to sit for a bursary because mom and dad didn't earn enough to actually. So convinced mum and dad to repeat me again in 6th class, but he said he wanted to for me to sit for a bursary because mom and dad didn't earn enough to actually.

6:21

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was means tested, the bursary was means tested, because he said I should go on to high school, which wasn't usual. Girls usually left at the end of the primary school and didn't go into high school. But he said I should. And so he tutored me in that time while I went repeated 6th class. And of course then I went on to the Nimbin High School and on the bus to Nimbin he only went to a ?inaudible? immediate. So it was only three years. was means tested, the bursary was means tested, because he said I should go on to high school, which wasn't usual. Girls usually left at the end of the primary school and didn't go into high school. But he said I should. And so he tutored me in that time while I went repeated 6th class. And of course then I went on to the Nimbin High School and on the bus to Nimbin he only went to a ?inaudible? immediate. So it was only three years.

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A tough three years because not only did I have learning difficulties, A tough three years because not only did I have learning difficulties,

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but my Christian and surname actually had connotations and I was very badly bullied and even assaulted, although I never complained to mum and dad. They never knew until the headmaster actually called them in and said why did you do this? And mum and dad had no idea what he was talking about until he explained what was happening. but my Christian and surname actually had connotations and I was very badly bullied and even assaulted, although I never complained to mum and dad. They never knew until the headmaster actually called them in and said why did you do this? And mum and dad had no idea what he was talking about until he explained what was happening.

7:20

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And mum and dad were mortified and but they had they had never made the connections. And mum and dad were mortified and but they had they had never made the connections.

7:25

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These young, um, men had made, so, but it made me all the more determined and at the end of first year I topped every cl- every subject. These young, um, men had made, so, but it made me all the more determined and at the end of first year I topped every cl- every subject.

7:41

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And I was very, very busy actually teaching myself. And I sat at the front of the class and I developed virtually what we call photographic memory. So I learnt, wrote, And I was very, very busy actually teaching myself. And I sat at the front of the class and I developed virtually what we call photographic memory. So I learnt, wrote,

7:55

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and I just absorbed everything I could. I really taught myself to read faster and better. Then at the end of second year, I topped the year again. There was another boy that we were very close. He topped all the boys subjects and I topped all the girls subjects, we used to say. And then in our last year, which was the intermediate, there was one point between us and he beat me by one. and I just absorbed everything I could. I really taught myself to read faster and better. Then at the end of second year, I topped the year again. There was another boy that we were very close. He topped all the boys subjects and I topped all the girls subjects, we used to say. And then in our last year, which was the intermediate, there was one point between us and he beat me by one.

8:25

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dux of the school and I was runner up. But then there was only intermediate school and then I had to make the decision whether I was going on. And by then I had become very, very determined. Mum and Dad had aspirations for I would have been the 1st in both sides of family to go on to do my Leaving Certificate. The boys, the other boys had gone to high school but they had left dux of the school and I was runner up. But then there was only intermediate school and then I had to make the decision whether I was going on. And by then I had become very, very determined. Mum and Dad had aspirations for I would have been the 1st in both sides of family to go on to do my Leaving Certificate. The boys, the other boys had gone to high school but they had left

8:52

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at the immediate level, they hadn't gone on to the Leaving. So dad and mum were very keen for me, to push me, dad in particular. at the immediate level, they hadn't gone on to the Leaving. So dad and mum were very keen for me, to push me, dad in particular.

8:60

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And I had to live away from home because. And I had to live away from home because.

9:05

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The bus didn't go to, it went to Lismore, but it just meant that I would have been have been out of ?inaudible? Park wouldn't go to go to school in Lismore and actually catch the bus to and from school. So I boarded away from home for the 1st 2 terms. Then in that meanwhile my dad had lost his job because the company he worked for actually went into bankruptcy so he had to find another job. He came to Grafton and where he found a job doing similar work to what he was doing before. The bus didn't go to, it went to Lismore, but it just meant that I would have been have been out of ?inaudible? Park wouldn't go to go to school in Lismore and actually catch the bus to and from school. So I boarded away from home for the 1st 2 terms. Then in that meanwhile my dad had lost his job because the company he worked for actually went into bankruptcy so he had to find another job. He came to Grafton and where he found a job doing similar work to what he was doing before.

9:33

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And meanwhile, um, I'm living away from home. And meanwhile, um, I'm living away from home.

9:39

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For the the last, the third term I went to stay with mum's sister so I could continue. I'd changed schools, and then I came to Grafton. It was 4 high schools in 12 months. [Noelene] So where were you living? [Nola] When I lived away from home I went to Kyogle High, then I went back to Murwillumbah High, and then I come to Grafton High. So from Nimbin Central, I'd gone to Kyogle, then to Murwillumbah, and then to Grafton. And then when I come to Grafton I found I couldn't do any of the subjects I had been For the the last, the third term I went to stay with mum's sister so I could continue. I'd changed schools, and then I came to Grafton. It was 4 high schools in 12 months. [Noelene] So where were you living? [Nola] When I lived away from home I went to Kyogle High, then I went back to Murwillumbah High, and then I come to Grafton High. So from Nimbin Central, I'd gone to Kyogle, then to Murwillumbah, and then to Grafton. And then when I come to Grafton I found I couldn't do any of the subjects I had been

10:10

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doing in year 4, um, fourth year. so I had to have a whole new range of subjects to study. The 5th year I got the leaving but I did not excel enough to get a teacher's college scholarship which I badly wanted and Mum and Dad supported me because they both had had aspirations of being teachers in their time and never had the opportunity. So they were as far as they were concerned. So I repeated again in fifth year to actually get those. doing in year 4, um, fourth year. so I had to have a whole new range of subjects to study. The 5th year I got the leaving but I did not excel enough to get a teacher's college scholarship which I badly wanted and Mum and Dad supported me because they both had had aspirations of being teachers in their time and never had the opportunity. So they were as far as they were concerned. So I repeated again in fifth year to actually get those.

10:40

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So that means I had the two years on in those subjects. I even did honors in a couple of subjects to actually give me a little bit more scope to make sure I got my teachers college scholarship. I had applied for others all over the Australia and I had scholarships in every state I had my pick, but I was needed closer to home. I had cared for my mum since I was five years old because she had she had. So that means I had the two years on in those subjects. I even did honors in a couple of subjects to actually give me a little bit more scope to make sure I got my teachers college scholarship. I had applied for others all over the Australia and I had scholarships in every state I had my pick, but I was needed closer to home. I had cared for my mum since I was five years old because she had she had.

11:10

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Heart attack and had been very ill for my life so I was needed at home to actually care for the young children. So Ada was the closest and by then we're not just as I was turning 15, she had another like a child late in life, another daughter. So I became her surrogate mother I actually raised her and. Heart attack and had been very ill for my life so I was needed at home to actually care for the young children. So Ada was the closest and by then we're not just as I was turning 15, she had another like a child late in life, another daughter. So I became her surrogate mother I actually raised her and.

11:35

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Wish to take a look everywhere without even now we are very close although there's 15 years between us. So then when I went to Teachers College, I was. Wish to take a look everywhere without even now we are very close although there's 15 years between us. So then when I went to Teachers College, I was.

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Excelled because of hard work up there, and in those days a teacher was rewarded for hard work at college because there's a lot. Excelled because of hard work up there, and in those days a teacher was rewarded for hard work at college because there's a lot.

11:58

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Wasn't doing their the proper work. I was appointed to East Gosford Demonstration School, which was the new school state-of-the-art as a reward for my, ah, work at college because I did a lot, got a lot of distinctions through hard work. Wasn't doing their the proper work. I was appointed to East Gosford Demonstration School, which was the new school state-of-the-art as a reward for my, ah, work at college because I did a lot, got a lot of distinctions through hard work.

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Then a week before school, I went I was going down, I had all my port packed and everything, catched the train down to get a flat and could set myself up. I got a telegram one late one afternoon to say re appointed to West Thorne in Grafton. I was devastated at the time thinking that, you know, why have I done wrong, why am I stuck back here? Then a week before school, I went I was going down, I had all my port packed and everything, catched the train down to get a flat and could set myself up. I got a telegram one late one afternoon to say re appointed to West Thorne in Grafton. I was devastated at the time thinking that, you know, why have I done wrong, why am I stuck back here?

12:42

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But I didn't know at the time, but my dad had pulled strings because he knew. But I didn't know at the time, but my dad had pulled strings because he knew.

12:47

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Member of Parliament at the time, had grown up with him, and he mentioned that he was concerned that he didn't have my help to with mum anymore and the younger children. So I was, behind the scenes, my life was really organised so I would be returned to Grafton. I don't regret it of course now because I was starting to keep company with a fellow who's now my husband and he thought it was a great idea I was put back here. Member of Parliament at the time, had grown up with him, and he mentioned that he was concerned that he didn't have my help to with mum anymore and the younger children. So I was, behind the scenes, my life was really organised so I would be returned to Grafton. I don't regret it of course now because I was starting to keep company with a fellow who's now my husband and he thought it was a great idea I was put back here.

13:18

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But I became very close and I got very skilled at, um, teaching children who had learning difficulties because I had found a way through and proved myself that you could do anything if you set your mind and that's what you wanted to do. So I found in my teaching career that I was given. But I became very close and I got very skilled at, um, teaching children who had learning difficulties because I had found a way through and proved myself that you could do anything if you set your mind and that's what you wanted to do. So I found in my teaching career that I was given.

13:43

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In the first instance it was children in a split class, but they weren't the best. They were the leftovers of the two classes. In the first instance it was children in a split class, but they weren't the best. They were the leftovers of the two classes.

13:52

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The Closet class and I related to them very well. The Closet class and I related to them very well.

13:59

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In those days when you had a family they expected you to leave teaching. I was right on that time period where they didn't argue with you, but they didn't encourage you to go back after you've had your family so. In those days when you had a family they expected you to leave teaching. I was right on that time period where they didn't argue with you, but they didn't encourage you to go back after you've had your family so.

14:13

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I you have were under bond for three years. I finished completing my bond. I was married by that stage and I was expecting a first child. So I actually did put my resignation in because I felt I needed to concentrate on family life and mum need me more than ever at that stage because the others, some of the left home, but the others were needing assistance. I you have were under bond for three years. I finished completing my bond. I was married by that stage and I was expecting a first child. So I actually did put my resignation in because I felt I needed to concentrate on family life and mum need me more than ever at that stage because the others, some of the left home, but the others were needing assistance.

14:37

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Particularly the youngest one because she was going to high school and that, so she needed me. Particularly the youngest one because she was going to high school and that, so she needed me.

14:42

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But then, um, I found that I abso- really love that kind of teaching, that it was the the stragglers that I had a lot of time for and I could help them. But I'd left full-time teaching and but after 12 months, I went back on the casual staff and I was on the casual staff at Grafton Inspectorate for 24 years and I taught from kindergarten through to high school. But then, um, I found that I abso- really love that kind of teaching, that it was the the stragglers that I had a lot of time for and I could help them. But I'd left full-time teaching and but after 12 months, I went back on the casual staff and I was on the casual staff at Grafton Inspectorate for 24 years and I taught from kindergarten through to high school.

15:09

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In the occasional sometimes it would be a week, someday one day, sometimes a month, or it could have been a term. In the occasional sometimes it would be a week, someday one day, sometimes a month, or it could have been a term.

15:15

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Some of the work I did was at Karinga. I taught that some of the middle school in Karinga enjoyed it because it was a way I felt that I was comfortable with, and I also enjoyed they had at that stage the box library for small schools and no one wanted to do library work. It was just expected the pits of a teacher. Some of the work I did was at Karinga. I taught that some of the middle school in Karinga enjoyed it because it was a way I felt that I was comfortable with, and I also enjoyed they had at that stage the box library for small schools and no one wanted to do library work. It was just expected the pits of a teacher.

15:42

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Didn't have full classes and there was time left that they were pushed into library work because it was considered the lowest of the teaching fraternity. And actually I proved. Didn't have full classes and there was time left that they were pushed into library work because it was considered the lowest of the teaching fraternity. And actually I proved.

15:52

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When I went into the library that it was the top because that was where the teachers got all their ideas, their resources, and you had to be in tune with all levels of teaching to be able to suggest to the teacher which way they might go or some books that they might need for their classes. And I've proved by being involved in the box library. When I went into the library that it was the top because that was where the teachers got all their ideas, their resources, and you had to be in tune with all levels of teaching to be able to suggest to the teacher which way they might go or some books that they might need for their classes. And I've proved by being involved in the box library.

16:17

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And the fellow that ran it in latter years, he had the same idea, so he always. And the fellow that ran it in latter years, he had the same idea, so he always.

16:23

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Asked if I could, when he was away on leave, if I could do his job because he knew which was I felt the same way. And when last few years I taught, I taught as a librarian in some of the private schools and I was responsible for setting up their library systems because they were, it was just on that when they were starting to get government grants to do that kind of thing. Asked if I could, when he was away on leave, if I could do his job because he knew which was I felt the same way. And when last few years I taught, I taught as a librarian in some of the private schools and I was responsible for setting up their library systems because they were, it was just on that when they were starting to get government grants to do that kind of thing.

16:49

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Meanwhile, I've had three children and the interesting thing was that the two eldest ones were chronic asthmatics because of inherited genes from both sides of the family. Meanwhile, I've had three children and the interesting thing was that the two eldest ones were chronic asthmatics because of inherited genes from both sides of the family.

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We had them all over Australia trying to get help for them because they were very chronic on cortisone, when they, by the time they were second class at school they were absolutely chronic asthmatic ?inaudible? in Grafton and in spring with all the flowers. But I would not give up when they told me I'd be, they would be lucky to survive childhood because there's a lot of young children dying with asthma and they didn't know why. We had them all over Australia trying to get help for them because they were very chronic on cortisone, when they, by the time they were second class at school they were absolutely chronic asthmatic ?inaudible? in Grafton and in spring with all the flowers. But I would not give up when they told me I'd be, they would be lucky to survive childhood because there's a lot of young children dying with asthma and they didn't know why.

17:29

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And but I wouldn't. And but I wouldn't.

17:32

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Give up. I just kept on saying there must be away and I actually took everything in my own hands from and made this very strict diet and regime. Give up. I just kept on saying there must be away and I actually took everything in my own hands from and made this very strict diet and regime.

17:44

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And I know it took a lot to set up and a lot to keep going, but the medical fraternity came to me and asked me because I had such spectacular results, and they had treated those children, so they knew it had to be something I was doing. And the same thing happened with mom. She had she was deteriorating, but they couldn't understand how I was keeping her so well for what was wrong with her. And I know it took a lot to set up and a lot to keep going, but the medical fraternity came to me and asked me because I had such spectacular results, and they had treated those children, so they knew it had to be something I was doing. And the same thing happened with mom. She had she was deteriorating, but they couldn't understand how I was keeping her so well for what was wrong with her.

18:11

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And they kept on saying she's a walking miracle, but they admitted it had to be something the care that we were doing with her. And they kept on saying she's a walking miracle, but they admitted it had to be something the care that we were doing with her.

18:20

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Because she was a she never lost sight, she didn't lose any limbs from diabetes, she never was in a wheelchair. And that and the kind of diabetes she had over such a long time, 3 and 4 inch injections a day, never got any ulcers. And they said that's unheard of. And so they, I got a name for being able to help people with these medical. Because she was a she never lost sight, she didn't lose any limbs from diabetes, she never was in a wheelchair. And that and the kind of diabetes she had over such a long time, 3 and 4 inch injections a day, never got any ulcers. And they said that's unheard of. And so they, I got a name for being able to help people with these medical.

18:46

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Supervision type of thing. Supervision type of thing.

18:49

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And those children grew up and had very normal lives that people can't believe that that knew it was so ill as children that they've got everything they've got their own children, they've got their own lives they've got. [Noelene] So they grew out of it? [Nola] No, no, we, we just learned. They learned to manage it and they still manage it very well. I might get a phone call and say, "look, I'm doing all I can think of, can you think of something else I might be doing?" That's, that's usually all And those children grew up and had very normal lives that people can't believe that that knew it was so ill as children that they've got everything they've got their own children, they've got their own lives they've got. [Noelene] So they grew out of it? [Nola] No, no, we, we just learned. They learned to manage it and they still manage it very well. I might get a phone call and say, "look, I'm doing all I can think of, can you think of something else I might be doing?" That's, that's usually all

19:15

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they're saying, you know, do you think this is what's giving me the bad asthma attacks or things like this. So yesterday was a chronic example. [Noelene] Mm, I bet it was. [Nola] So it was, yeah, we, we worked out what was best for them and that, and that's what they did. they're saying, you know, do you think this is what's giving me the bad asthma attacks or things like this. So yesterday was a chronic example. [Noelene] Mm, I bet it was. [Nola] So it was, yeah, we, we worked out what was best for them and that, and that's what they did.

19:28

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So yes, so I was always a carer. I started caring for my grandfather when I was. So yes, so I was always a carer. I started caring for my grandfather when I was.

19:36

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10 years old, I was doing full-time care with my grandmother. I lived with them to actually help her, um, because he was a chronic asthmatic and he had all these other problems too. So people now say to me, oh, you've done it so well for so long, you know, that they expect me to step in up and do the job. But I had other aspirations after I went back teaching casually. 10 years old, I was doing full-time care with my grandmother. I lived with them to actually help her, um, because he was a chronic asthmatic and he had all these other problems too. So people now say to me, oh, you've done it so well for so long, you know, that they expect me to step in up and do the job. But I had other aspirations after I went back teaching casually.

20:03

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I took the school class to Schaeffer House, the local museum, and there's a couple of very well spoken and gentle ladies there the day I took my class, and they spoke to me said how well behaved they were because they used to be classes with kids run riot. And they said that that my class was absolutely beautiful to to actually have the afternoon and they invited me back to the meeting that night for the Historical Society was the annual meeting and they said will you please I took the school class to Schaeffer House, the local museum, and there's a couple of very well spoken and gentle ladies there the day I took my class, and they spoke to me said how well behaved they were because they used to be classes with kids run riot. And they said that that my class was absolutely beautiful to to actually have the afternoon and they invited me back to the meeting that night for the Historical Society was the annual meeting and they said will you please

20:32

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come? And I said I can't promise because I had a young family. But one of the ladies said she had no way home and would I be kind enough to drop her off. And when I dropped her off, she said, well, I have no ?inaudible? the meeting tonight, do you think you could come and collect me? So I was kind of trapped, trapped too actually and that started a whole new world open to me. I had been interested in history all my life because my grandmother. come? And I said I can't promise because I had a young family. But one of the ladies said she had no way home and would I be kind enough to drop her off. And when I dropped her off, she said, well, I have no ?inaudible? the meeting tonight, do you think you could come and collect me? So I was kind of trapped, trapped too actually and that started a whole new world open to me. I had been interested in history all my life because my grandmother.

21:00

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Had some a very interesting background and growing up. Had some a very interesting background and growing up.

21:05

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And after her husband died and we moved to Grafton, though she was still on the Tweed, she went back and nursed her own sister's older sisters as widows until their deaths. And she was away for three years looking after her widowed sisters before she came back. And in that time, they reminisced and thought, I wonder if these family stories are true? You know, some of these things were told as children. Were they true? Were these people they talked about And after her husband died and we moved to Grafton, though she was still on the Tweed, she went back and nursed her own sister's older sisters as widows until their deaths. And she was away for three years looking after her widowed sisters before she came back. And in that time, they reminisced and thought, I wonder if these family stories are true? You know, some of these things were told as children. Were they true? Were these people they talked about

21:35

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Really our family? And one of the aunts had actually, when she'd gone to England, had tried to find the family Crest and to see, and she had been given, the name was Bill, and she had been given this family crest all done up beautifully and this was their family. So when she came home and presented it to her sisters and they were all excited and that but. Really our family? And one of the aunts had actually, when she'd gone to England, had tried to find the family Crest and to see, and she had been given, the name was Bill, and she had been given this family crest all done up beautifully and this was their family. So when she came home and presented it to her sisters and they were all excited and that but.

21:60

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When grandma came back because I was the only one of the grandchildren. When grandma came back because I was the only one of the grandchildren.

22:05

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That had gone on to tertiary education and she I had had a lot to do because I lived with grandma when grandfather was so ill for all those years and we had had a very good close relationship. And she asked me did I think I could find out how true those things were. That had gone on to tertiary education and she I had had a lot to do because I lived with grandma when grandfather was so ill for all those years and we had had a very good close relationship. And she asked me did I think I could find out how true those things were.

22:26

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So I then got interested in taking these things back further and further. I wrote to her every week to tell her how much I'd learnt. So I then got interested in taking these things back further and further. I wrote to her every week to tell her how much I'd learnt.

22:36

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And who these people were, and what documents I was able to get, and how true this was and that. And I did that for 10 years to the day she died. And that's what kept her going. And who these people were, and what documents I was able to get, and how true this was and that. And I did that for 10 years to the day she died. And that's what kept her going.

22:48

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The other parts of the family had said to her mom, leave it be, get yourself a new life now, you're sick, you're finished looking after people, get a life. But she didn't. She could not relate to a lot of people when she came back with all her friends had died in the meantime. The other parts of the family had said to her mom, leave it be, get yourself a new life now, you're sick, you're finished looking after people, get a life. But she didn't. She could not relate to a lot of people when she came back with all her friends had died in the meantime.

23:07

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And she people that she had to associate with, she had nothing in common. So she said that's the loneliest part of my life because I don't have a life for these people that are not connected in any way, have nothing in common, not even memories. But grandma and I had all these things that we used to discuss. So when the ?rest of the family? could see how much joy she was getting out of it. And she people that she had to associate with, she had nothing in common. So she said that's the loneliest part of my life because I don't have a life for these people that are not connected in any way, have nothing in common, not even memories. But grandma and I had all these things that we used to discuss. So when the ?rest of the family? could see how much joy she was getting out of it.

23:33

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And I actually made the arrangements to take her. And I actually made the arrangements to take her.

23:38

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To where her grandparents were married, where her great grandparents lived, and we took a trip over two weeks. So she was an elderly woman in those days and the family were very upset about that we had taken responsibility to take her on this trip because they felt that, no, she she was too old and she was too ill to do it. But we were very successful, and she had the most wonderful two weeks with us. And that's, for the rest of her life she used to say about that trip. To where her grandparents were married, where her great grandparents lived, and we took a trip over two weeks. So she was an elderly woman in those days and the family were very upset about that we had taken responsibility to take her on this trip because they felt that, no, she she was too old and she was too ill to do it. But we were very successful, and she had the most wonderful two weeks with us. And that's, for the rest of her life she used to say about that trip.

24:09

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So we thought that was fine. So when I got interested, I got obsessed and what and started to get obsessed with my own history and finding all these wonderful things back in England. But also because I've had this connection with the local historic society they opened me with, oh, they were just so thrilled that a young person was interested in history. So we thought that was fine. So when I got interested, I got obsessed and what and started to get obsessed with my own history and finding all these wonderful things back in England. But also because I've had this connection with the local historic society they opened me with, oh, they were just so thrilled that a young person was interested in history.

24:36

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Although I had no connection here and they kind of encouraged me to get involved. Although I had no connection here and they kind of encouraged me to get involved.

24:41

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With the lack of historic society mainly because. With the lack of historic society mainly because.

24:46

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I was new and coming on and they needed my. I was new and coming on and they needed my.

24:51

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Energy, being a young thing. And a lot of them didn't have children here, and so I became their surrogate, and if they wanted something in the middle of the night or something, I was the one they called for help, because they didn't have family here and I had developed a very close relationship with some of these elderly people. Some had family here but the families were too busy with their families. Energy, being a young thing. And a lot of them didn't have children here, and so I became their surrogate, and if they wanted something in the middle of the night or something, I was the one they called for help, because they didn't have family here and I had developed a very close relationship with some of these elderly people. Some had family here but the families were too busy with their families.

25:13

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And they weren't really interested in mum, mum or dad, and so it was me that were built up a great rapport and they taught me things that I knew nothing about a Grafton and they encouraged me and then I go up to historic society. And they weren't really interested in mum, mum or dad, and so it was me that were built up a great rapport and they taught me things that I knew nothing about a Grafton and they encouraged me and then I go up to historic society.

25:32

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Conferences, the society, I'll be nominated as their representative and I got to know a lot of other people in the state who was interested in history, including some of the lecturers. Conferences, the society, I'll be nominated as their representative and I got to know a lot of other people in the state who was interested in history, including some of the lecturers.

25:44

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That were connected to the university. Some were connected to Armadale Teachers College whom I had had as lecturer when I was there. But I knew of them and of course I then would go and talk to them and they encouraged me to then to do something more with studying history. And I could have gone to Armadale University and started with doing a course in history, but the Armadale. That were connected to the university. Some were connected to Armadale Teachers College whom I had had as lecturer when I was there. But I knew of them and of course I then would go and talk to them and they encouraged me to then to do something more with studying history. And I could have gone to Armadale University and started with doing a course in history, but the Armadale.

26:14

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CIA in those days college events educational teachers college then developed the course for three-year teachers two year teaching and so they. CIA in those days college events educational teachers college then developed the course for three-year teachers two year teaching and so they.

26:23

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Were bringing out these courses for, well, I suppose the community courses in a way that you couldn't do at TAFE, but they were bringing them in in the college Advantage education. Armadale had a local history one, and they encouraged me to actually move in and do that externally as a course. Meanwhile, I got so wrapped up in doing my family history. Were bringing out these courses for, well, I suppose the community courses in a way that you couldn't do at TAFE, but they were bringing them in in the college Advantage education. Armadale had a local history one, and they encouraged me to actually move in and do that externally as a course. Meanwhile, I got so wrapped up in doing my family history.

26:51

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The Genealogical Society in Sydney. The Genealogical Society in Sydney.

26:54

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Were well aware of me as I was a member, but I was sending a lot of material about families on the Clarence down for their records and they encouraged me to actually do their course too in studies of family history. So I did. I did the one in Sydney and got very high marks and was I was then accredited as a genealogist. Were well aware of me as I was a member, but I was sending a lot of material about families on the Clarence down for their records and they encouraged me to actually do their course too in studies of family history. So I did. I did the one in Sydney and got very high marks and was I was then accredited as a genealogist.

27:21

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I had the experience, but I also had the. I had the experience, but I also had the.

27:25

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Knowledge through doing the course. It was a two year course externally. The one at Armadale was four years course externally. Knowledge through doing the course. It was a two year course externally. The one at Armadale was four years course externally.

27:35

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I did so well. I did so well.

27:38

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I average high distinction and I was given the College medal. It had never been awarded before in that course. It never has been awarded after the CA is now the University of New England at campus of that section of that. I average high distinction and I was given the College medal. It had never been awarded before in that course. It never has been awarded after the CA is now the University of New England at campus of that section of that.

27:55

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And the course that I did is now part of a uni course. And the course that I did is now part of a uni course.

28:01

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After I finished that, the lecturers especially as I've done so well in case said, why don't you now do your basic arts degree in history and that will give you the what you really need. I started to do my degree in art. I was averaging high distinction again. Eight units before I finished I became very ill. After I finished that, the lecturers especially as I've done so well in case said, why don't you now do your basic arts degree in history and that will give you the what you really need. I started to do my degree in art. I was averaging high distinction again. Eight units before I finished I became very ill.

28:30

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And so did my in-laws and my parents, and I was the mainstay for, and I also had a grandchild that was very ill, and I was the mainstay of four generations even though I was ill at the time and I had to withdraw. So that, and then when hex became such a component of the expense, it came in while I was studying up there and I said I cannot justify family money. And so did my in-laws and my parents, and I was the mainstay for, and I also had a grandchild that was very ill, and I was the mainstay of four generations even though I was ill at the time and I had to withdraw. So that, and then when hex became such a component of the expense, it came in while I was studying up there and I said I cannot justify family money.

28:59

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Going to a course for a piece of paper when my own children are now going into high school and need that for their education. Although they did go from high school straight into uni, they all have the two oldest ones that were chronic asthmatics now. They now have done their degrees externally in very tough subjects. Going to a course for a piece of paper when my own children are now going into high school and need that for their education. Although they did go from high school straight into uni, they all have the two oldest ones that were chronic asthmatics now. They now have done their degrees externally in very tough subjects.

29:25

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To the two, our two daughters are dyslexic, the same as I was. To the two, our two daughters are dyslexic, the same as I was.

29:28

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I finally found when I started teaching what the label was and why I had these somethings and that's why I related those kids and I could help them. So that and I became obsessed with history and I because I was doing so much local history, I've been obsessed with Grafton history and I was on, of course, this dioxide was paying for me to actually go onto the committee and I was on the executive committee. I finally found when I started teaching what the label was and why I had these somethings and that's why I related those kids and I could help them. So that and I became obsessed with history and I because I was doing so much local history, I've been obsessed with Grafton history and I was on, of course, this dioxide was paying for me to actually go onto the committee and I was on the executive committee.

29:59

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18 years. 18 years.

30:04

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So I was busy. So I was busy.

30:07

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Developing ideas after in the course in Armadale, an historic society, the main executive committee were very supportive and although there was components who didn't like some of the things I did, they were very supportive of other things. And we developed a program to extend the Schaeffer House. In the first instance, it was just the original house. Developing ideas after in the course in Armadale, an historic society, the main executive committee were very supportive and although there was components who didn't like some of the things I did, they were very supportive of other things. And we developed a program to extend the Schaeffer House. In the first instance, it was just the original house.

30:35

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We actually have government plans to extend out the back. We actually have government plans to extend out the back.

30:38

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And then later could extend out the side where where our archives, we've developed a huge archive program. And then later could extend out the side where where our archives, we've developed a huge archive program.

30:47

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I in a voluntary capacity was running it. We had booked state conferences here, we read and we were known throughout the world as you know Graf- the Schaeffer House of Grafton was one of the top museums not only in Australia but they were elsewhere in the world were actually building like type of programs. I in a voluntary capacity was running it. We had booked state conferences here, we read and we were known throughout the world as you know Graf- the Schaeffer House of Grafton was one of the top museums not only in Australia but they were elsewhere in the world were actually building like type of programs.

31:10

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We put indexing programs, we introduced all those kind of things and we had people who were unemployed doing voluntary service there and they were indexing. We had their own pet projects, they got acknowledged for those and we actually invested money into buying all the newspapers although we had. We put indexing programs, we introduced all those kind of things and we had people who were unemployed doing voluntary service there and they were indexing. We had their own pet projects, they got acknowledged for those and we actually invested money into buying all the newspapers although we had.

31:33

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By luck. By luck.

31:35

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The executive of the historic society got to know when the data examine had been sold to APM and they were clearing out and destroying, going to destroy the bound copies from day one of The Examiner which had been housed in Grafton all those years. They were going to go to the dump. The executive learnt of it and we made arrangements for them to be redirected to storage until we could sort out, and we were. The executive of the historic society got to know when the data examine had been sold to APM and they were clearing out and destroying, going to destroy the bound copies from day one of The Examiner which had been housed in Grafton all those years. They were going to go to the dump. The executive learnt of it and we made arrangements for them to be redirected to storage until we could sort out, and we were.

32:03

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Then allowed to actually make arrangements with the Board of APN to have perpetual custodianship of the. Then allowed to actually make arrangements with the Board of APN to have perpetual custodianship of the.

32:13

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The newspapers and they are still at Schaeffer House and they are still the custodians. Some people don't realise that the historic society, one of the first, well actually, the first outside Sydney and NSW and has been built up over, you know, 75 years now. The newspapers and they are still at Schaeffer House and they are still the custodians. Some people don't realise that the historic society, one of the first, well actually, the first outside Sydney and NSW and has been built up over, you know, 75 years now.

32:34

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They are a closed society. You have to be nominated to actually join. They are a closed society. You have to be nominated to actually join.

32:40

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And all the items that you give, are donated to the, the historical items, actually become the ownership of this. And all the items that you give, are donated to the, the historical items, actually become the ownership of this.

32:49

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Society, it doesn't belong to the community, it doesn't belong to the council. They own the building they Society, it doesn't belong to the community, it doesn't belong to the council. They own the building they

32:56

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All and unfortunately, as times gone on, a lot of the old families no longer have represented younger people interested in those things. And the people that come in from outside don't have the same feel if they haven't come through the ranks and haven't been there for a long time and they have different attitudes to the whole collection and what should be happening. All and unfortunately, as times gone on, a lot of the old families no longer have represented younger people interested in those things. And the people that come in from outside don't have the same feel if they haven't come through the ranks and haven't been there for a long time and they have different attitudes to the whole collection and what should be happening.

33:23

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And although I when I became ill, I had to resign from the. And although I when I became ill, I had to resign from the.

33:28

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Executive of the society, I'm still a member, so I've been there for over 35 years, 36 years and I still do duty on, particularly in Jacaranda Week, but I have no connection to the actual. Executive of the society, I'm still a member, so I've been there for over 35 years, 36 years and I still do duty on, particularly in Jacaranda Week, but I have no connection to the actual.

33:45

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governing body now because my aspirations for Grafton's history is not the same as they actually have. So it we were not completely apart, but we're not on the same wavelength anymore. So when I became well enough then to to actually move into doing history. governing body now because my aspirations for Grafton's history is not the same as they actually have. So it we were not completely apart, but we're not on the same wavelength anymore. So when I became well enough then to to actually move into doing history.

34:10

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I started my own collection of local history when I started courses in in Sydney and Armadale. I started my own collection of local history when I started courses in in Sydney and Armadale.

34:17

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And of course it mushroomed very quickly because I wanted to go back and get as much as the official and original primary source material and bring it back here. And that was one of the things that I was doing at Schaeffer House, that the new committee did not feel they had other agendas that they were looking at. So I was personally buying it and I still do today. I still buy original or copies of original material. And of course it mushroomed very quickly because I wanted to go back and get as much as the official and original primary source material and bring it back here. And that was one of the things that I was doing at Schaeffer House, that the new committee did not feel they had other agendas that they were looking at. So I was personally buying it and I still do today. I still buy original or copies of original material.

34:46

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So my main aim then was to get it in the Public Library system because I love library work at school and it's seen the. So my main aim then was to get it in the Public Library system because I love library work at school and it's seen the.

34:55

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Importance of it for the school community and I had proven it to the teachers so that what I introduced in a lot of the particularly the Saint Mary's and Holy Spirit in those schools, that's what they went on with. They, they actually expanded and went well above what I had first envisioned as continuing on today and I had envisaged that into the public system. Importance of it for the school community and I had proven it to the teachers so that what I introduced in a lot of the particularly the Saint Mary's and Holy Spirit in those schools, that's what they went on with. They, they actually expanded and went well above what I had first envisioned as continuing on today and I had envisaged that into the public system.

35:23

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At the time. At the time.

35:26

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I was particularly interested you were actually on the staff there and I believe we built up a rapport because we had a similar aspirations for the local library system. And I know there was times that we would turn up at similar meetings that I was involved in. You would be there in in your capacity as a librarian, but you had the same wavelength so. I was particularly interested you were actually on the staff there and I believe we built up a rapport because we had a similar aspirations for the local library system. And I know there was times that we would turn up at similar meetings that I was involved in. You would be there in in your capacity as a librarian, but you had the same wavelength so.

35:51

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When the Grafton. When the Grafton.

35:55

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Council. Council.

35:58

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They were actually bringing forward, they wanted new ideas for graft and city because they had, they had had a beautiful garden scheme, they had parks, they had all these schemes that were dovetailing in keeping our heritage together. And of course our library system was, we thought, that's where a collection of documents and items that actually supported what was being. They were actually bringing forward, they wanted new ideas for graft and city because they had, they had had a beautiful garden scheme, they had parks, they had all these schemes that were dovetailing in keeping our heritage together. And of course our library system was, we thought, that's where a collection of documents and items that actually supported what was being.

36:24

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In the community and. In the community and.

36:27

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I know I had like a meetings with you to develop some themes and ideas that when the council built their new library, which was on the cards, that that's what we'd be able to put that in the original scheme. Well, of course, amalgamation happened and we were. I know I had like a meetings with you to develop some themes and ideas that when the council built their new library, which was on the cards, that that's what we'd be able to put that in the original scheme. Well, of course, amalgamation happened and we were.

36:51

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Disappointed to find that that was not what the new council were looking to for that they their aspirations were different for the community. Disappointed to find that that was not what the new council were looking to for that they their aspirations were different for the community.

37:02

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So the library system was stunted and it remained very static, but we still have have aspirations that we were going to find some kind of avenue that we could still within the confines of what we had that we might have been able to achieve. And one of these things that we became particularly interested in was. So the library system was stunted and it remained very static, but we still have have aspirations that we were going to find some kind of avenue that we could still within the confines of what we had that we might have been able to achieve. And one of these things that we became particularly interested in was.

37:27

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Oral history, I had started a program in historic society where I'd like to interview a lot of the elderly people and I had incorporated that in the course I did, Armadale, That was part of it. So I became very keen on it because I could see it was just. Oral history, I had started a program in historic society where I'd like to interview a lot of the elderly people and I had incorporated that in the course I did, Armadale, That was part of it. So I became very keen on it because I could see it was just.

37:43

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The glue that held a lot of this other stuff together, you could get your documents from bottom from the the library so we could borrow from government departments. But it was people's experiences and what they had lived and what how they done their work that held all this other stuff together. And so it became more evident that that would be a great thing to. The glue that held a lot of this other stuff together, you could get your documents from bottom from the the library so we could borrow from government departments. But it was people's experiences and what they had lived and what how they done their work that held all this other stuff together. And so it became more evident that that would be a great thing to.

38:10

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Have in the Clarence Valley. Clarence Valley is very unique in the world because where we are. Have in the Clarence Valley. Clarence Valley is very unique in the world because where we are.

38:16

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An hour's drive from the next large town. So it's been isolated for 170 years, but in the first instance they had to come by boat to get here and then gradually we got the railway here after 100 years. But it still has that isolated aspect of it even today. So we felt that having this unit we could build from the documents and the old history would be absolutely. An hour's drive from the next large town. So it's been isolated for 170 years, but in the first instance they had to come by boat to get here and then gradually we got the railway here after 100 years. But it still has that isolated aspect of it even today. So we felt that having this unit we could build from the documents and the old history would be absolutely.

38:43

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Make it phenomenal. Be one of the best documented communities in the world. Make it phenomenal. Be one of the best documented communities in the world.

38:47

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Because we'd have all the bits. Because we'd have all the bits.

38:51

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But within these constraints, we were wondering what we could do and opportunity came up for a state conference workshop about old history, at least obstacle on Richmond, and you and I went as delegates and we both could see the potential of that for here and we were very keen to find some way to actually achieve it. But within these constraints, we were wondering what we could do and opportunity came up for a state conference workshop about old history, at least obstacle on Richmond, and you and I went as delegates and we both could see the potential of that for here and we were very keen to find some way to actually achieve it.

39:22

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When the Grafton City was celebrating its Sesquicentenary centenary, the Grafton Clarence Valley Council set up a committee for the celebrations to prepare to oversee to have liaison with the community about the project and both of us were nominated and accepted nomination you as part of the. When the Grafton City was celebrating its Sesquicentenary centenary, the Grafton Clarence Valley Council set up a committee for the celebrations to prepare to oversee to have liaison with the community about the project and both of us were nominated and accepted nomination you as part of the.

39:51

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Council. Council.

39:53

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Community. Community.

39:55

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As an acquaintance officer myself, as a community-based person who was obsessed with the labeled history. So one they asked what project could be developed for this celebration and so they invited people to put forward projects. We actually developed a plan that we thought would be very good for this part of that could be actually kept here as part of the reference. As an acquaintance officer myself, as a community-based person who was obsessed with the labeled history. So one they asked what project could be developed for this celebration and so they invited people to put forward projects. We actually developed a plan that we thought would be very good for this part of that could be actually kept here as part of the reference.

40:24

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In our local studies section that we hope to develop over time. In our local studies section that we hope to develop over time.

40:30

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And so it was one of the projects that was put up to the committee for the 150th in the first instance. The committee was invited to actually take these back to Council for council funding, because they were. And so it was one of the projects that was put up to the committee for the 150th in the first instance. The committee was invited to actually take these back to Council for council funding, because they were.

40:47

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Counts were quite happy to fund some of these projects, not all that some of them, and one of them is the old history. When it came to the delegates actually speaking to the Council on various topics, they felt that there was other ones more deserving, particularly a book. Counts were quite happy to fund some of these projects, not all that some of them, and one of them is the old history. When it came to the delegates actually speaking to the Council on various topics, they felt that there was other ones more deserving, particularly a book.

41:07

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A professionally written book on Grafton's history for the 150 years and a couple of other things including some a garden project for development of the memorial garden for pioneers. And in the first instance the council said yes, that they thought that they could help fund those. So the local History 1 was virtually pushed out of the picture. A professionally written book on Grafton's history for the 150 years and a couple of other things including some a garden project for development of the memorial garden for pioneers. And in the first instance the council said yes, that they thought that they could help fund those. So the local History 1 was virtually pushed out of the picture.

41:32

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However, being as determined as we might. However, being as determined as we might.

41:36

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Be in other directions as well. Be in other directions as well.

41:40

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I then decided I would approach the community. I always envisioned it as a community project, not a professional. I then decided I would approach the community. I always envisioned it as a community project, not a professional.

41:50

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Person coming from Sydney with a history degree and going, interviewing the locals and taking the material back to Sydney. I always envisaged it and I believe you did too, as a community project and so I went out in the community to get the community sponsorship and one of the groups that. Person coming from Sydney with a history degree and going, interviewing the locals and taking the material back to Sydney. I always envisaged it and I believe you did too, as a community project and so I went out in the community to get the community sponsorship and one of the groups that.

42:09

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I was suggested I should contact and pitch the project to was Grafton U38 University of Food Aid because it was aligned with their creed or their their aspirations to actually provide. I was suggested I should contact and pitch the project to was Grafton U38 University of Food Aid because it was aligned with their creed or their their aspirations to actually provide.

42:28

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Activities for the senior citizens that were here in a learning experience and they absolutely loved the concept and they jumped at the idea. Not only were they happy to. Activities for the senior citizens that were here in a learning experience and they absolutely loved the concept and they jumped at the idea. Not only were they happy to.

42:41

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Sponsor. They were happy to take on the whole project as in. Sponsor. They were happy to take on the whole project as in.

42:48

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Organizing the members, inviting the members to actually come onto a team. It was to be a team effort to go out and do the project. In the first instance, the people were very reticent because they had no skills with interviewing people. They had no skills of using technical equipment to do this, that a lot of them had no skills in actually even of the history of the area, but therefore. Organizing the members, inviting the members to actually come onto a team. It was to be a team effort to go out and do the project. In the first instance, the people were very reticent because they had no skills with interviewing people. They had no skills of using technical equipment to do this, that a lot of them had no skills in actually even of the history of the area, but therefore.

43:15

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They were a bit reticent, but there was also many on the team who had lived, grown up, been even born in Grafton and they could see the potential of this for their city as well. They were a bit reticent, but there was also many on the team who had lived, grown up, been even born in Grafton and they could see the potential of this for their city as well.

43:27

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And although we started off with very much trepidations and a reasonably small budget, as the time went on and the whole concept developed where more and more of the community were hoping to get involved. And we did get people more into people who would be willing to go out and interview. And we got more people were willing to be interviewed on their life or on some aspects of the label history that we were seeking more. And although we started off with very much trepidations and a reasonably small budget, as the time went on and the whole concept developed where more and more of the community were hoping to get involved. And we did get people more into people who would be willing to go out and interview. And we got more people were willing to be interviewed on their life or on some aspects of the label history that we were seeking more.

43:57

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Verification and explanations on because there's a whole way of life that has been lost because we no longer do those things because there's no horse and trays. All those skills were lost even to blacksmiths and that amount of blacksmiths and barriers of why we're lucky if we got one in Grafton anymore because and yet they would have had dozens. Verification and explanations on because there's a whole way of life that has been lost because we no longer do those things because there's no horse and trays. All those skills were lost even to blacksmiths and that amount of blacksmiths and barriers of why we're lucky if we got one in Grafton anymore because and yet they would have had dozens.

44:23

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At different times of our history, so this this was. At different times of our history, so this this was.

44:29

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The start of. The start of.

44:31

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But it has become a major success story in that each of the people got involved, put their whole heart and soul into it. They could see the benefits not only for themselves, but the people that they would be engaging with and. But it has become a major success story in that each of the people got involved, put their whole heart and soul into it. They could see the benefits not only for themselves, but the people that they would be engaging with and.

44:50

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When we started off we thought well if we could get 50 that that would be a nice round collection to start and put into a local studies area of our library. Then we got a little bit game and I'm always one that puts the bar very high and I suggested why not have 150 for 150 years, not dreaming that it was achievable, but you have to to have that bar there to aim at that goal. When we started off we thought well if we could get 50 that that would be a nice round collection to start and put into a local studies area of our library. Then we got a little bit game and I'm always one that puts the bar very high and I suggested why not have 150 for 150 years, not dreaming that it was achievable, but you have to to have that bar there to aim at that goal.

45:21

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Otherwise, you always fall short. You never. And if we have surpassed it, not only have we done 150 in the time we've done more than that, but the range is absolutely incredible. They're people that not only grown up here, but people have come in later in life and have contributed absolutely amazing things to the community that they have no connection. I have no connection to you. I have no. Otherwise, you always fall short. You never. And if we have surpassed it, not only have we done 150 in the time we've done more than that, but the range is absolutely incredible. They're people that not only grown up here, but people have come in later in life and have contributed absolutely amazing things to the community that they have no connection. I have no connection to you. I have no.

45:50

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Family here, except my children, a couple of my children now, I have no connections to any of my ancestors, never came to the Clarence, but it's gone under my skin and it is the only place on earth and I have traveled that I would always come home and call home. And it is the only place that I would. Well, I'm not. I haven't sold Seoul, but I have put my heart and soul. Family here, except my children, a couple of my children now, I have no connections to any of my ancestors, never came to the Clarence, but it's gone under my skin and it is the only place on earth and I have traveled that I would always come home and call home. And it is the only place that I would. Well, I'm not. I haven't sold Seoul, but I have put my heart and soul.

46:18

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Into recovering retraining. Into recovering retraining.

46:21

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Retain the history and I don't doubt I have other like-minded people because that's how I've met them in these projects and they and the results we are having a function to recognize and acknowledge the community contribution to this project and we have had nearly 100% acceptance. Retain the history and I don't doubt I have other like-minded people because that's how I've met them in these projects and they and the results we are having a function to recognize and acknowledge the community contribution to this project and we have had nearly 100% acceptance.

46:47

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For the people who are here, the only ones who have put in apologies are not going to be engrafted on the day. So that shows you how successful it has been and there's people who would never go to anything. For the people who are here, the only ones who have put in apologies are not going to be engrafted on the day. So that shows you how successful it has been and there's people who would never go to anything.

47:03

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Had accepted the invitation to this. Had accepted the invitation to this.

47:08

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I don't feel this is the end because I still have promised others that I will follow up because we haven't interviewed everyone we'd like to and we feel we can still add to this even though we have handed it over to the Clarence Valley Library system. We have done all the legal work so that we know it will stay in the Clarence Valley and it will be as a reference to for people, not only the descendants of some of these. I don't feel this is the end because I still have promised others that I will follow up because we haven't interviewed everyone we'd like to and we feel we can still add to this even though we have handed it over to the Clarence Valley Library system. We have done all the legal work so that we know it will stay in the Clarence Valley and it will be as a reference to for people, not only the descendants of some of these.

47:38

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But people who wouldn't have no knowledge and have no way of knowing how these things work or who they were or how it all came about. But it's all in these old history. And it's a very personal thing just to think that descendants of these people who are interviewed, and there's the number that have died since we interviewed them and their families are so thrilled and so appreciative that they. But people who wouldn't have no knowledge and have no way of knowing how these things work or who they were or how it all came about. But it's all in these old history. And it's a very personal thing just to think that descendants of these people who are interviewed, and there's the number that have died since we interviewed them and their families are so thrilled and so appreciative that they.

48:09

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Their family member on tape telling their story. Their family member on tape telling their story.

48:16

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Stories that they've never heard in their whole lives, but they know they're true because, you know, we, the way we've approached the thing, we haven't encouraged people to exaggerate and, and there's inquires of cross referencing because we can find documents that will dump down into the story or we might find that two or three people will mention the same thing in the same era. So we know it's and these people would not even know each other. Stories that they've never heard in their whole lives, but they know they're true because, you know, we, the way we've approached the thing, we haven't encouraged people to exaggerate and, and there's inquires of cross referencing because we can find documents that will dump down into the story or we might find that two or three people will mention the same thing in the same era. So we know it's and these people would not even know each other.

48:42

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So, but they know about this, this thing that happened or they were part of this movement or something like that. So yes, we look envisaged that it's going to be willing to read something useful for the community to have for a long time yet. And we're hoping that yes, as the new technology comes on, it will be updated so that it's not lost. So, but they know about this, this thing that happened or they were part of this movement or something like that. So yes, we look envisaged that it's going to be willing to read something useful for the community to have for a long time yet. And we're hoping that yes, as the new technology comes on, it will be updated so that it's not lost.

49:07

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New technology changes so much as a big problem now that a lot of stuff including data. New technology changes so much as a big problem now that a lot of stuff including data.

49:13

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This part of our history now will be lost, and that's another thing that I'm involved in, trying to collect as much material. This part of our history now will be lost, and that's another thing that I'm involved in, trying to collect as much material.

49:25

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Yes, we will scan it. Yes, we'll put it on electronic, but we still keep the hard copy because we know that the electronic copy can disappear very, very in a flash of all it takes is one person pushing the wrong button and it's lost. You can have all the backups in place, but that means nothing when the system goes wrong. So hopefully I am continuing on to collect the hard copies. Yes, we will scan it. Yes, we'll put it on electronic, but we still keep the hard copy because we know that the electronic copy can disappear very, very in a flash of all it takes is one person pushing the wrong button and it's lost. You can have all the backups in place, but that means nothing when the system goes wrong. So hopefully I am continuing on to collect the hard copies.

49:54

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My big dream is still to have somewhere. My big dream is still to have somewhere.

49:58

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In the near future, but somewhere in the future that we have a well developed local studies collection. Everywhere library system in NSW has a local studies collection. Unfortunately this hasn't been a high priority of some sections of the library systems in the Clarence Valley. Hopefully in in at some time in the future with those people that are interested in that and the material will have been saved to go there. In the near future, but somewhere in the future that we have a well developed local studies collection. Everywhere library system in NSW has a local studies collection. Unfortunately this hasn't been a high priority of some sections of the library systems in the Clarence Valley. Hopefully in in at some time in the future with those people that are interested in that and the material will have been saved to go there.

50:28

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And it's surprising how much I go now, go back to my files to actually clarify something and put somebody on the right track to actually where to go to get the right information because so much once it's written down. And it's surprising how much I go now, go back to my files to actually clarify something and put somebody on the right track to actually where to go to get the right information because so much once it's written down.

50:49

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A perpetuated mistake is there forever. People believe once a driven down in black and white, it has to be gospel. And a lot of things it's happened and it's perpetuated. It's incorrect information. But because there's no document or there's no reference to go back and prove that it's right or wrong, we can't do anything about it. But once now we've got that collection together that we can say, well, this is really what happened We've got. A perpetuated mistake is there forever. People believe once a driven down in black and white, it has to be gospel. And a lot of things it's happened and it's perpetuated. It's incorrect information. But because there's no document or there's no reference to go back and prove that it's right or wrong, we can't do anything about it. But once now we've got that collection together that we can say, well, this is really what happened We've got.

51:17

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Supporting evidence not only from all history. Supporting evidence not only from all history.

51:21

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Documented history, and we've got it for more than one source of those kind of things. So that's why I'm in the future is to to continue to develop these things and hopefully that they will fall into the right system somewhere. Documented history, and we've got it for more than one source of those kind of things. So that's why I'm in the future is to to continue to develop these things and hopefully that they will fall into the right system somewhere.

51:40

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So is there anything else that anything I've missed? I think you've pretty well covered everything. So is there anything else that anything I've missed? I think you've pretty well covered everything.

51:48

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Because that's, that's my baby. I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm passionate about it. I guess the only thing that I was going to ask you was. Because that's, that's my baby. I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm passionate about it. I guess the only thing that I was going to ask you was.

51:57

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As a color one from the all of his journal that we've also discussed an image library so that the next I know that in association with the old history, you've started collecting photographs and newspaper clippings and video footage that some families have got. I think that that's possibly the next area where we want to develop. As a color one from the all of his journal that we've also discussed an image library so that the next I know that in association with the old history, you've started collecting photographs and newspaper clippings and video footage that some families have got. I think that that's possibly the next area where we want to develop.

52:23

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An image library to go with the print to go with the oral SO. An image library to go with the print to go with the oral SO.

52:28

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Is is that one of your one of my personal endeavours? Is is that one of your one of my personal endeavours?

52:36

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One of my passion is to actually write more of the history to get in black and white, but get the right story in black and white so that our children, our grandchildren and interested people to come to the community can actually have somewhere to start. And that's why I've actually now I've, I've been doing a lot of. One of my passion is to actually write more of the history to get in black and white, but get the right story in black and white so that our children, our grandchildren and interested people to come to the community can actually have somewhere to start. And that's why I've actually now I've, I've been doing a lot of.

52:59

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History. Community history this year. History. Community history this year.

53:03

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Orally, but I've also been going out in in the community and lecturing and. Orally, but I've also been going out in in the community and lecturing and.

53:09

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Sharing my knowledge next year I want to be able to get back to the actual collection and writing. And some of the people who I've interviewed with the old history have offered some very good photographic collections. And I had promised to go back and scan them because I've always told them that yes, our next step is to try and marry some of these old history back with some of the photographic documents and as you. Sharing my knowledge next year I want to be able to get back to the actual collection and writing. And some of the people who I've interviewed with the old history have offered some very good photographic collections. And I had promised to go back and scan them because I've always told them that yes, our next step is to try and marry some of these old history back with some of the photographic documents and as you.

53:40

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Clippings and things that when they're gone, they'll be gone too because nobody knows what they relate to. So yes, and that's part of the next three months. I have have already lined people up to do that and we have the paperwork. It has been developed to actually cover that so we don't have to do it to go over a lot of territory again. So it falls in the same legal aspect as we've already developed for. Clippings and things that when they're gone, they'll be gone too because nobody knows what they relate to. So yes, and that's part of the next three months. I have have already lined people up to do that and we have the paperwork. It has been developed to actually cover that so we don't have to do it to go over a lot of territory again. So it falls in the same legal aspect as we've already developed for.

54:10

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Of history. So image library starting very soon, I was already started, but it's going to be developed more very soon and probably next year will be a real push. And I believe some of the people involved in the old history will be very happy because of the report, but the joy that they have been experienced by doing this job in the community and they would like to continue on doing it. Of history. So image library starting very soon, I was already started, but it's going to be developed more very soon and probably next year will be a real push. And I believe some of the people involved in the old history will be very happy because of the report, but the joy that they have been experienced by doing this job in the community and they would like to continue on doing it.

54:40

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Is our next big project is actually the collection of photographic material for an image library. The council have already started image library, but it's more for the promotion of council projects. It hasn't gone into this aspect and this is what we feel it's going to be the field that we need to even school photos and sporting picture photos because they're the ones that they know who those people are, they know the era and that's. Is our next big project is actually the collection of photographic material for an image library. The council have already started image library, but it's more for the promotion of council projects. It hasn't gone into this aspect and this is what we feel it's going to be the field that we need to even school photos and sporting picture photos because they're the ones that they know who those people are, they know the era and that's.

55:10

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Information we're collecting as we scan that photo, so that will be all collected with it, The story that goes with the photo. Information we're collecting as we scan that photo, so that will be all collected with it, The story that goes with the photo.

55:18

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Very good. Well, I just like to say, NOLA, that thank you for all your input into the history of the Grafton and the clinics area because without you we wouldn't have had a lot of this documented. So you've provided us with a wonderful resource and and training I see as your next potential as well because you need to pass on your knowledge. So we need to get library staff trained up and that would be my next project for you. Very good. Well, I just like to say, NOLA, that thank you for all your input into the history of the Grafton and the clinics area because without you we wouldn't have had a lot of this documented. So you've provided us with a wonderful resource and and training I see as your next potential as well because you need to pass on your knowledge. So we need to get library staff trained up and that would be my next project for you.

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And I think that we've probably completed this interview now. So thank you. And I think that we've probably completed this interview now. So thank you.

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