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This is Nola Mackey and Pat James talking with Mrs Beryl Noud at 283 Oliver Street, Grafton, and we're talking to her about her This is Nola Mackey and Pat James talking with Mrs Beryl Noud at 283 Oliver Street, Grafton, and we're talking to her about her
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early life in Grafton. early life in Grafton.
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Beryl, would you like to tell us how, where you were born and how you came to Grafton? Beryl, would you like to tell us how, where you were born and how you came to Grafton?
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Well, I was born in Brisbane. Well, I was born in Brisbane.
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And um, And um,
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I came to live in Grafton after I got married to a Grafton boy. I came to live in Grafton after I got married to a Grafton boy.
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And now, can you tell us more about the fact, things that you were involved in in Grafton and even your pet projects?         Oh, well, both Ray and I were interested in horses and racing and that sort of thing. I came from a racing family too. And now, can you tell us more about the fact, things that you were involved in in Grafton and even your pet projects?         Oh, well, both Ray and I were interested in horses and racing and that sort of thing. I came from a racing family too.
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And our main interest always was with, well, we had a, our first child was born ten and a half months after we were married and of course the children and horses, that's been, was our life for And our main interest always was with, well, we had a, our first child was born ten and a half months after we were married and of course the children and horses, that's been, was our life for
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many years, you know.       Well, can you tell us a bit more about that? Because very few people know what a racing life involves? many years, you know.       Well, can you tell us a bit more about that? Because very few people know what a racing life involves?
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Oh, yes, I did, yes.      But about the early mornings as well as       Oh, yes.      looking after family and     Yes, I was used to that. We always had Oh, yes, I did, yes.      But about the early mornings as well as       Oh, yes.      looking after family and     Yes, I was used to that. We always had
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early breakfast and went out to the stables, but at that time we had stables at our own place so that ah, like so I could sort of manage the children and the, and see to the horses too, you know.      Where was that? early breakfast and went out to the stables, but at that time we had stables at our own place so that ah, like so I could sort of manage the children and the, and see to the horses too, you know.      Where was that?
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In Villiers Street. In Villiers Street.
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So that's down the other end towards the river?        No, no, it's um, oh, the place is So that's down the other end towards the river?        No, no, it's um, oh, the place is
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I'm not too happy about what the place looks like now. I'm not too happy about what the place looks like now.
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Stables down the back. It was behind um, Stables down the back. It was behind um,
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oh, anyhow, oh, anyhow,
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Pound Street was behind their place. We had stables, yeah. Pound Street was behind their place. We had stables, yeah.
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And did you take the horses for swims in the river like they do now? And did you take the horses for swims in the river like they do now?
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Take the horses for swims in the river?       Oh, Ray used to, yes.       Yes.      Yes, we used to take them swimming, yes. In those days they just rode them in, you know. Instead of now, they have to Take the horses for swims in the river?       Oh, Ray used to, yes.       Yes.      Yes, we used to take them swimming, yes. In those days they just rode them in, you know. Instead of now, they have to
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????? ?????
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They rode them in. They rode them in.
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And I always liked dressing them and that, you know, grooming them and feeding them, that sort of thing, you know. And Ray was working. And I always liked dressing them and that, you know, grooming them and feeding them, that sort of thing, you know. And Ray was working.
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And he worked, first off they had the blacksmith shop in Pound Street. And he worked, first off they had the blacksmith shop in Pound Street.
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And ah, that was a family business from about 1818 something, I think. And ah, that was a family business from about 1818 something, I think.
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And um, And um,
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he worked when he came, he worked as a farrier. And when he came back from the war, he worked there for a few years and he worked when he came, he worked as a farrier. And when he came back from the war, he worked there for a few years and
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and then he went to um, and then he went to um,
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Dairy Company to work. Dairy Company to work.
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And that was in the days when they had the horses, the draught horses and the carts delivering the milk. And that was in the days when they had the horses, the draught horses and the carts delivering the milk.
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And he worked at the factory and also shod the horses and that, you know. And he worked at the factory and also shod the horses and that, you know.
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And um, And um,
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that's ah, that's, at any rate, he worked there and while he was, he took the horses to the track in the morning and it was only a hobby with us, you know. that's ah, that's, at any rate, he worked there and while he was, he took the horses to the track in the morning and it was only a hobby with us, you know.
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And um, and then ah, And um, and then ah,
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like, I sort of looked after them during the day and dressed them and fed them and what have you. like, I sort of looked after them during the day and dressed them and fed them and what have you.
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 Came home in the afternoon and we  Came home in the afternoon and we
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we both worked with them then, you know, to we both worked with them then, you know, to
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There's people who There's people who
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go to the race track often think that's all that happens to a horse. They have no idea of the      Oh, yes.      the intense care over a long period of time and the training to actually get them to that spot to do       That's right.      the racing. go to the race track often think that's all that happens to a horse. They have no idea of the      Oh, yes.      the intense care over a long period of time and the training to actually get them to that spot to do       That's right.      the racing.
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Yes, but they're beautiful animals.       And how many horses did you have at a time?      Oh, we only ever had, the most we ever had was four, but mostly only two or something like that, you know? Yes, but they're beautiful animals.       And how many horses did you have at a time?      Oh, we only ever had, the most we ever had was four, but mostly only two or something like that, you know?
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And did you have strappers working for you to actually, on track work?       No, uh, And did you have strappers working for you to actually, on track work?       No, uh,
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a friend who came and helped in the afternoons and that sometimes, you know, well, when he could and a friend who came and helped in the afternoons and that sometimes, you know, well, when he could and
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sometimes we had people that were interested in those days in them, and they just liked to, sometimes we had people that were interested in those days in them, and they just liked to,
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you know, just be you know, just be
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around them and help, you know, but,      Did you have a favourite jockey that you employed most of the time?      Oh, well, in the early days we had Skeeter Kelly. He was our main one then, the Kelly boys still. And around them and help, you know, but,      Did you have a favourite jockey that you employed most of the time?      Oh, well, in the early days we had Skeeter Kelly. He was our main one then, the Kelly boys still. And
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later on in later years Johnny Hutchings did most of our riding and Wayne Seymour. later on in later years Johnny Hutchings did most of our riding and Wayne Seymour.
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Did you take the horses to Brisbane often?       Yes, they went to Brisbane Did you take the horses to Brisbane often?       Yes, they went to Brisbane
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twice. twice.
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And like, Lismore, And like, Lismore,
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Casino, those places, but we did go to Brisbane twice. Took the horses up there and I think Casino, those places, but we did go to Brisbane twice. Took the horses up there and I think
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Rose, Rose Lady was one and she won up there, you know. I think only on, on two or three occasions, you know, that we did travel with them. Oh, we took [...] Rose, Rose Lady was one and she won up there, you know. I think only on, on two or three occasions, you know, that we did travel with them. Oh, we took [...]
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up, that's right. She ran fourth in a big two year old [...]. up, that's right. She ran fourth in a big two year old [...].
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And your favorite, I believe, was Prince Lucan?       My favourite?       Yes.        Horse?      Yes.       Oh, no, I had many over the years, but he was the last one and ah, I sort of like spent more time with him because by that time the kids were all grown up and away. Yeah.       So       I love horses and that, you know. And your favorite, I believe, was Prince Lucan?       My favourite?       Yes.        Horse?      Yes.       Oh, no, I had many over the years, but he was the last one and ah, I sort of like spent more time with him because by that time the kids were all grown up and away. Yeah.       So       I love horses and that, you know.
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The girls rode a bit, you know, just down on the farm  The girls rode a bit, you know, just down on the farm 
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And um, And um,
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oh, my son's in oh, my son's in
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Newcastle. Newcastle.
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So how many children did you have?       Three. So how many children did you have?       Three.
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So they, they love horses too?       Oh, all loved horses, yes. We all loved them, yeah. So they, they love horses too?       Oh, all loved horses, yes. We all loved them, yeah.
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And the grandchildren; are they into it too? And the grandchildren; are they into it too?
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No, not, not, oh, no, not really. Not really, no. No, not, not, oh, no, not really. Not really, no.
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Not into it really, you know.      So the Noud name in the, Not into it really, you know.      So the Noud name in the,
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Racing.       Yeah, it's the same.       Well, actually like there's many um, Racing.       Yeah, it's the same.       Well, actually like there's many um,
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I think that's been five, be five or six generations of Nouds been here. But when, when I go, I will, it will be the end of it, you know. There'll be no more Nouds in Grafton. I think that's been five, be five or six generations of Nouds been here. But when, when I go, I will, it will be the end of it, you know. There'll be no more Nouds in Grafton.
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My son's only got a daughter, you know, but My son's only got a daughter, you know, but
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so the Noud name will sort of die out with our side of it, but there are others like so the Noud name will sort of die out with our side of it, but there are others like
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and he's got a son, I think. Well, I've,  we've lost track of them, you know, I don't know. and he's got a son, I think. Well, I've,  we've lost track of them, you know, I don't know.
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I'll be the last one here, but I'll be the last one here, but
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there were two um, there were two um,
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two um, two um,
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here. I think um, apparently they all came from County Kildare in Ireland originally. And one, one son went to America and one came out here. And I think here. I think um, apparently they all came from County Kildare in Ireland originally. And one, one son went to America and one came out here. And I think
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he was married, but, he was married twice. he was married, but, he was married twice.
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And he had a fair few children and they, but they were sort of, you know, step, brothers and sisters. But I keep in touch with one um, Aileen Sergel in, she's in Sydney and she's very interested in all the history, you know. And he had a fair few children and they, but they were sort of, you know, step, brothers and sisters. But I keep in touch with one um, Aileen Sergel in, she's in Sydney and she's very interested in all the history, you know.
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I'm in touch with her quite a bit. I'm in touch with her quite a bit.
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Seems strange that it will just sort of die out, you know. Seems strange that it will just sort of die out, you know.
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So it's more important that we do have a memorial to the family.      Yes.      in this park.      Definitely. Yes, in our town. So it's more important that we do have a memorial to the family.      Yes.      in this park.      Definitely. Yes, in our town.
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Well, I put a, we've had a plaque down in the Boulevard, the soldiers' part, you know, we've done that for Ray, you know, with Ray. That's, that's done now so that's fixed now. Well, I put a, we've had a plaque down in the Boulevard, the soldiers' part, you know, we've done that for Ray, you know, with Ray. That's, that's done now so that's fixed now.
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And um, And um,
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and I just thought well, it'll be nice and I just thought well, it'll be nice
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sensory garden        Yeah.       you know, just whatever       That's right.       you're going to do sort of thing. And Aileen was a bit interested in it too, you know, because, like, her, you know, her, it was her sensory garden        Yeah.       you know, just whatever       That's right.       you're going to do sort of thing. And Aileen was a bit interested in it too, you know, because, like, her, you know, her, it was her
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great-great-great-grandfather,  great-great-great-grandfather, 
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you know, you know,
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seeing them from their sort of thing is seeing them from their sort of thing is
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Women are just as important as the men, even though they don't carry the surname. Women are just as important as the men, even though they don't carry the surname.
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Even, even if they don't Even, even if they don't
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Oh, yes.  Oh, yes. 
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Oh, yes, the bloodline's there, yes.      I mean       Well, I thought it was, with the Sensory Garden, I thought, like, um, Oh, yes, the bloodline's there, yes.      I mean       Well, I thought it was, with the Sensory Garden, I thought, like, um,
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if my children come back here, which they probably will because they all, my eldest daughter now has, they've just retired and if my children come back here, which they probably will because they all, my eldest daughter now has, they've just retired and
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wants to live, wants to live,
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like, she'll be here, so the others will come back. And of course my son comes back for the races and that. And it'd be nice for them to be able to go there       Oh, yes.       you know, that sort of thing I thought. like, she'll be here, so the others will come back. And of course my son comes back for the races and that. And it'd be nice for them to be able to go there       Oh, yes.       you know, that sort of thing I thought.
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Well, we've got lots. Do you remember Well, we've got lots. Do you remember
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the prize money the prize money
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when you first started racing here?        Oh, when you first started racing here?        Oh,
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well, of course it was in pounds in those days, you know, but well, of course it was in pounds in those days, you know, but
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no, I can't, I can't remember exactly really, but it wasn't  no, I can't, I can't remember exactly really, but it wasn't 
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suppose it seemed a lot as, you know, in those days, you know. But it would have been in pounds, you know. Probably might have been £75 or something like that for a winner. I'm not sure now. I couldn't really be sure, you know. suppose it seemed a lot as, you know, in those days, you know. But it would have been in pounds, you know. Probably might have been £75 or something like that for a winner. I'm not sure now. I couldn't really be sure, you know.
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It might have covered the cost of the keep for the      Oh, well in those days, I mean, feed, everything was cheap, you know, like, in comparison, but um, It might have covered the cost of the keep for the      Oh, well in those days, I mean, feed, everything was cheap, you know, like, in comparison, but um,
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still, we never, ah, like, we just raced for the. for the pleasure of it, you know.     still, we never, ah, like, we just raced for the. for the pleasure of it, you know.    
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millionaires out of it. millionaires out of it.
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So, So,
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Did you?     and the people you meet. You meet a very nice lot of people. And you meet some that aren't so nice, but that's in every walk of life, isn't it?       Mmm. And did you grow the feed and that for the horses?       No, no.      Because some people actually did. They had a, they had a plot that they actually      Oh, Did you?     and the people you meet. You meet a very nice lot of people. And you meet some that aren't so nice, but that's in every walk of life, isn't it?       Mmm. And did you grow the feed and that for the horses?       No, no.      Because some people actually did. They had a, they had a plot that they actually      Oh,
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no, we didn't grow it, but no, we didn't grow it, but
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but in those days, all the, all the horse shoes were made by hand. Now, they're nearly all machine made. Everything's changed, you know? but in those days, all the, all the horse shoes were made by hand. Now, they're nearly all machine made. Everything's changed, you know?
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So the, when your husband first went to work at the Butter Factory, So the, when your husband first went to work at the Butter Factory,
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the       Then he was at Peters after that.       At Peters? the       Then he was at Peters after that.       At Peters?
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But he wasn't involved in the horses there, except for shoeing them. He didn't care for the horses there? But he wasn't involved in the horses there, except for shoeing them. He didn't care for the horses there?
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In um, in the Butter Factory?      Butter Factory, yeah.       Oh, no, he worked in the actual Butter Factory, but he also shod the, the draught horses, like, that's pulling the carts and that sort of thing, you know, still had delivering the milk. In um, in the Butter Factory?      Butter Factory, yeah.       Oh, no, he worked in the actual Butter Factory, but he also shod the, the draught horses, like, that's pulling the carts and that sort of thing, you know, still had delivering the milk.
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The milk from where?       Well, take it from the, from the factory and deliver it around. See, they used to deliver it to the door then.       I see, yeah. See, I, I, that was what I didn't      Yes.      understand, that they had to deliver, had to deliver it.       Oh, yes, used to get bread, The milk from where?       Well, take it from the, from the factory and deliver it around. See, they used to deliver it to the door then.       I see, yeah. See, I, I, that was what I didn't      Yes.      understand, that they had to deliver, had to deliver it.       Oh, yes, used to get bread,
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you know, and used to have green grocers you know, and used to have green grocers
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you know, come and take your, not your, at least grocers, you know, and um, come and take your order and deliver it. you know, come and take your, not your, at least grocers, you know, and um, come and take your order and deliver it.
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But, you know,  But, you know, 
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And the green grocer used to come in the, just in a cart, you know, with all his fresh vegies in the cart.       That'd be my ah, my grandfather, Tom. Remember Tom Jones?       Tom Jones; that name rings a bell, yes.       Just around where I live and he And the green grocer used to come in the, just in a cart, you know, with all his fresh vegies in the cart.       That'd be my ah, my grandfather, Tom. Remember Tom Jones?       Tom Jones; that name rings a bell, yes.       Just around where I live and he
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fruit shops.        Oh, yes.       And he used to drive a truck, a vegie fruit shops.        Oh, yes.       And he used to drive a truck, a vegie
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truck. truck.
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Bill Jarrett, he used to too. Do you remember Bill Jarrett?       No.       From South Grafton. Bill Jarrett, he used to too. Do you remember Bill Jarrett?       No.       From South Grafton.
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Yes, he used to come around with the horses and Yes, he used to come around with the horses and
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that sort of thing, you know. that sort of thing, you know.
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Yeah, everything was done, but of course none of us had cars in those days. Yeah, everything was done, but of course none of us had cars in those days.
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It was fresh when you got it, it was pretty fresh.       Yes, that's right. It was fresh when you got it, it was pretty fresh.       Yes, that's right.
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So when you wanted something, you went, you walked down to Grafton down the street?       Yes, yes. Pushed the pram and had the, you'd have a basket underneath or something to carry your things. So when you wanted something, you went, you walked down to Grafton down the street?       Yes, yes. Pushed the pram and had the, you'd have a basket underneath or something to carry your things.
13:31

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I can remember when my mother used to come in from the country, she'd go to the CWA rooms and hire a pram I can remember when my mother used to come in from the country, she'd go to the CWA rooms and hire a pram
13:38

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to take our children in.       Yeah.       Because she didn't have a pram to bring with her or, and um, so she hired it from the CWA. to take our children in.       Yeah.       Because she didn't have a pram to bring with her or, and um, so she hired it from the CWA.
13:48

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A lot of people used to come in, in horses and cart, A lot of people used to come in, in horses and cart,
13:52

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you know. you know.
13:55

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Blacksmith shop all day and go and do their shopping in town     That's where they, yeah, yeah.        because it was right there, you know, in the town area. Blacksmith shop all day and go and do their shopping in town     That's where they, yeah, yeah.        because it was right there, you know, in the town area.
14:04

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There used to be horses tied up everywhere.       Yes.       And did you have a favorite dressmaker or somebody that made your There used to be horses tied up everywhere.       Yes.       And did you have a favorite dressmaker or somebody that made your
14:12

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clothes? Because there wasn't      A dressmaker?       Yes.       Ah, clothes? Because there wasn't      A dressmaker?       Yes.       Ah,
14:17

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well, there was ah, one who made a few things for me, but most of that, but other times you just went and bought things, you know. In those days I was  well, there was ah, one who made a few things for me, but most of that, but other times you just went and bought things, you know. In those days I was 
14:32

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I did get  I did get 
14:40

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maiden name was. maiden name was.
14:42

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She married the fellow that used to have Grafton Glass, Trevor. She married the fellow that used to have Grafton Glass, Trevor.
14:51

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She used to be a dressmaker and  She used to be a dressmaker and 
14:58

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No, I know there was quite big establishments down the street where women dressmakers actually had, there was Miss Harmons and Miss Champion, they had shops. And you went in there and you got, chose your fabric       Yes.                had a fitting and then you'd go back to, to um       There was No, I know there was quite big establishments down the street where women dressmakers actually had, there was Miss Harmons and Miss Champion, they had shops. And you went in there and you got, chose your fabric       Yes.                had a fitting and then you'd go back to, to um       There was
15:20

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[...] was a tailor there, I remember. [...] was a tailor there, I remember.
15:25

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Oh, yes, a lot's changed. Oh, yes, a lot's changed.
15:29

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Big changes. But you could go out in those days and leave your house open. Big changes. But you could go out in those days and leave your house open.
15:34

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Now I, if I'm going out to the backyard to hang the clothes out, I lock the door. Now I, if I'm going out to the backyard to hang the clothes out, I lock the door.
15:41

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What other changes do you think you've seen in Grafton in sixty years? What other changes do you think you've seen in Grafton in sixty years?
15:46

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Oh, all this construction going on now, you know, it's all these supermarkets and things. There was nothing of that, you know, no supermarkets or anything, you know. Oh, all this construction going on now, you know, it's all these supermarkets and things. There was nothing of that, you know, no supermarkets or anything, you know.
15:59

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Big store on the corner where you could buy pretty well everything. They had a grocery department up the back and, you know, you could pretty well go in there and buy everything you wanted and Big store on the corner where you could buy pretty well everything. They had a grocery department up the back and, you know, you could pretty well go in there and buy everything you wanted and
16:08

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ah, but no, it's changed now.  ah, but no, it's changed now. 
16:14

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Have you got any special memories of the floods?       Oh, yes, yes. Oh, yes. We ah, we were in a few floods. And um, my mother-in-law was in, and  Have you got any special memories of the floods?       Oh, yes, yes. Oh, yes. We ah, we were in a few floods. And um, my mother-in-law was in, and 
16:27

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father-in-law, they were in the flood too in the flood area. They sat up on their table. They rescued them from, Ray went over and rescued them off the table and got a boat to take them out. They were in Pound Street. But oh, yes, it was father-in-law, they were in the flood too in the flood area. They sat up on their table. They rescued them from, Ray went over and rescued them off the table and got a boat to take them out. They were in Pound Street. But oh, yes, it was
16:45

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we chose out here because, you know, it's so high. Yeah, we used to have to bring the horses out and put them in the stables over here, you know, and that. And  we chose out here because, you know, it's so high. Yeah, we used to have to bring the horses out and put them in the stables over here, you know, and that. And 
17:00

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No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no.
17:03

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No, they've never had water there. We used to come out and bring the horses out there.       Yeah. No, they've never had water there. We used to come out and bring the horses out there.       Yeah.
17:09

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And the stables down there, you know. And the stables down there, you know.
17:13

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No, but you had everything arranged in there. Like, you knew we were prone to quite a few floods and you knew you had your big drums, kerosene drums and your planks across them. And you'd lift things up, you know, and put them on there and get all ready. You generally had a bit of notice about it coming and No, but you had everything arranged in there. Like, you knew we were prone to quite a few floods and you knew you had your big drums, kerosene drums and your planks across them. And you'd lift things up, you know, and put them on there and get all ready. You generally had a bit of notice about it coming and
17:33

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and then when it, when you got everything you had to do, you went, you put the kids in the stroller or the pram and walked down to the river and had a look at it. and then when it, when you got everything you had to do, you went, you put the kids in the stroller or the pram and walked down to the river and had a look at it.
17:46

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Oh, it made a mess after it was all over.       Oh. Oh, it made a mess after it was all over.       Oh.
17:51

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Oh, for years the mud Oh, for years the mud
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you know, but      Yes. you know, but      Yes.
18:02

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well, I don't think there has been a flood in Grafton, in South there has, but not for many, many years.      No.      I think Robin was about nineteen and she's, she'll be 60 this year. So that's a long time      Yes.       since there was actually one in Grafton.      Yes. well, I don't think there has been a flood in Grafton, in South there has, but not for many, many years.      No.      I think Robin was about nineteen and she's, she'll be 60 this year. So that's a long time      Yes.       since there was actually one in Grafton.      Yes.
18:22

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Might have been a bit of the water lying around in the low parts, but not an actual flood to come in the main street and that. Might have been a bit of the water lying around in the low parts, but not an actual flood to come in the main street and that.
18:30

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Building the levee was a big thing, wasn't it? Building that levee bank was a big thing?       Oh, apparently, yes, yes. That's, that's probably what's, what's fixed things, you know, but um, Building the levee was a big thing, wasn't it? Building that levee bank was a big thing?       Oh, apparently, yes, yes. That's, that's probably what's, what's fixed things, you know, but um,
18:41

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hopefully. hopefully.
18:44

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The last time the river came up there, we went down, a friend and I went down and had a look near the bowling club. Oh, gee whiz, it was pretty close that time.       Yes, yes.      Yeah. The last time the river came up there, we went down, a friend and I went down and had a look near the bowling club. Oh, gee whiz, it was pretty close that time.       Yes, yes.      Yeah.
18:57

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You never know when it could come again, I suppose, but I think if it ever came out here, it'd be in South Grafton, you know. You never know when it could come again, I suppose, but I think if it ever came out here, it'd be in South Grafton, you know.
19:06

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Pity help the rest of Grafton. Pity help the rest of Grafton.
19:09

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Yes, that's right. Yes, that's right.
19:13

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Yes, in the early days they built right along Queen Street 'cause it was high.     Oh, yes.      And they looked, just went the little ridges along the streets. They, they knew where it would be safest. Yes, in the early days they built right along Queen Street 'cause it was high.     Oh, yes.      And they looked, just went the little ridges along the streets. They, they knew where it would be safest.
19:27

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So that's why your ancestor built up on the top end there.       Yeah. The Aboriginal people would have known and they would have passed the message, wouldn't they? The Aborigines would have told people where the floods came to.       Yes, well, well, like Ray's father and mother, you know, they knew quite a bit. So that's why your ancestor built up on the top end there.       Yeah. The Aboriginal people would have known and they would have passed the message, wouldn't they? The Aborigines would have told people where the floods came to.       Yes, well, well, like Ray's father and mother, you know, they knew quite a bit.
19:45

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Come in the back way there Come in the back way there
19:49

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into North Street um      Bakers Swamp.       Bakers Swamp.      Yeah.       Yes, because when we were looking around for house, you know, into North Street um      Bakers Swamp.       Bakers Swamp.      Yeah.       Yes, because when we were looking around for house, you know,
19:58

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we went out that way and, and they said, "Oh, no. we went out that way and, and they said, "Oh, no.
20:01

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Oh, no, no," you know. Oh, no, no," you know.
20:04

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Bakers Swamp, they just remember that, you know. Bakers Swamp, they just remember that, you know.
20:09

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Somewhere, but there's so much water, you know. [...] just comes, breaks through and then fills up like a basin.                        It must go somewhere but, mustn't it, water? Somewhere, but there's so much water, you know. [...] just comes, breaks through and then fills up like a basin.                        It must go somewhere but, mustn't it, water?
20:23

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I think downriver, it got it a bit worse, haven't they? I think downriver, it got it a bit worse, haven't they?
20:30

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Because the water's not far off the neighbours. Because the water's not far off the neighbours.
20:35

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Well, I remember Ray's father saying like, they, where the, where they had the blacksmith shop, the house and the blacksmith shop, and that beside them was just a hollow, you know, and they used to throw, they filled a lot of that. They used to throw all their old iron and their horse shoes and everything up there, you know, fill all that. And he remembered one time some council fellows came and put pipes down there. Well, I remember Ray's father saying like, they, where the, where they had the blacksmith shop, the house and the blacksmith shop, and that beside them was just a hollow, you know, and they used to throw, they filled a lot of that. They used to throw all their old iron and their horse shoes and everything up there, you know, fill all that. And he remembered one time some council fellows came and put pipes down there.
20:59

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And they dug down and put the pipes and, and he said to them, And they dug down and put the pipes and, and he said to them,
21:03

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"You watch out, you mightn't have those pipes when you come back." And they went, they went out to the [...] "You watch out, you mightn't have those pipes when you come back." And they went, they went out to the [...]
21:09

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down to the water and went out to the river. And they never found them again.       Didn't they?       When they came back from lunch. down to the water and went out to the river. And they never found them again.       Didn't they?       When they came back from lunch.
21:19

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you know.        Yeah. you know.        Yeah.
21:21

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Yeah. Yeah.
21:24

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They um, they They um, they
21:27

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say now they sent in that article. Barbara Fay said, you know, that they're all the time digging up old horse shoes and things like that. And that's what it was, you know. They used to throw everything out there to sort of fill it in, you know? say now they sent in that article. Barbara Fay said, you know, that they're all the time digging up old horse shoes and things like that. And that's what it was, you know. They used to throw everything out there to sort of fill it in, you know?
21:41

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So I suppose So I suppose
21:43

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Well, every household had a well      Yes.       in Grafton. Well, every household had a well      Yes.       in Grafton.
21:49

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And that's where they got the household water from. We didn't have reticulated water in the early days. But the sad part And that's where they got the household water from. We didn't have reticulated water in the early days. But the sad part
21:55

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about it is a lot of children got typhoid from the well water, but also from the open drains.       Yes.       Because all our gutters were open drains.       They've got to be careful of the drains because that's what happened in Newcastle. My daughter-in-law nearly got drowned there. She went, when they had that last, they had that flood down there. about it is a lot of children got typhoid from the well water, but also from the open drains.       Yes.       Because all our gutters were open drains.       They've got to be careful of the drains because that's what happened in Newcastle. My daughter-in-law nearly got drowned there. She went, when they had that last, they had that flood down there.
22:17

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And she went to the doctors and she was driving home down the street and all of a sudden the drains and the car, the water just came in one big like a wave right over her car and she just managed to get out of the window. And she was lucky there was a fellow in a great big four wheel drive just near her too and he, he got hold of her. And she said that the drain sort of back up and not in the water and then all of a sudden it comes like And she went to the doctors and she was driving home down the street and all of a sudden the drains and the car, the water just came in one big like a wave right over her car and she just managed to get out of the window. And she was lucky there was a fellow in a great big four wheel drive just near her too and he, he got hold of her. And she said that the drain sort of back up and not in the water and then all of a sudden it comes like
22:47

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you know, so, and there was cars, there was photos of it on the, on the television. There was cars everywhere in the main street there, you know. They were all slewed around and banking up against, you know, posts and everything. Well, their car was just ruined. It was, it was no, no point, you know, the water just went  straight over it so you know, so, and there was cars, there was photos of it on the, on the television. There was cars everywhere in the main street there, you know. They were all slewed around and banking up against, you know, posts and everything. Well, their car was just ruined. It was, it was no, no point, you know, the water just went  straight over it so
23:10

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you've got to be careful of these drains. you've got to be careful of these drains.
23:17

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No, the weather's taking a real turn everywhere.       She was lucky. No, the weather's taking a real turn everywhere.       She was lucky.
23:21

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We've been lucky. Like       Yes.       Adelaide's had about thirty nine and forty and Melbourne, haven't they? We've been lucky. Like       Yes.       Adelaide's had about thirty nine and forty and Melbourne, haven't they?
23:32

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All those people used to say oh, you know, "Oh, we couldn't come to Grafton in the, in the summertime. It's too hot." All those people used to say oh, you know, "Oh, we couldn't come to Grafton in the, in the summertime. It's too hot."
23:40

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But it is interesting to, when you look at the weather in past years, Grafton would be the hottest in the state, But it is interesting to, when you look at the weather in past years, Grafton would be the hottest in the state,
23:47

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especially near the coast. It'd, it'd match some of the inland       Oh, yes.       Yes. especially near the coast. It'd, it'd match some of the inland       Oh, yes.       Yes.
23:52

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And I think it's the humidity that gets a lot of people too.       Yes.        It's not a dry heat.       Yes.       Didn't worry me when I was young, I could work all through it, but it does now, you know, humidity.      Yes.       But um, I mean we got, when you look at fifty years ago, we did get a lot of the same weather because I can remember I had one, one child in December and one in January. And I think it's the humidity that gets a lot of people too.       Yes.        It's not a dry heat.       Yes.       Didn't worry me when I was young, I could work all through it, but it does now, you know, humidity.      Yes.       But um, I mean we got, when you look at fifty years ago, we did get a lot of the same weather because I can remember I had one, one child in December and one in January.
24:18

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I remember the one in December, oh, boy! I remember the one in December, oh, boy!
24:24

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And in those days you didn't have fans      No, no.      and air conditioners and the things you've got now, you know, so And in those days you didn't have fans      No, no.      and air conditioners and the things you've got now, you know, so
24:31

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made a difference, you know.       And how did you try and keep the baby cl, ah, dry, dry       And cool, yeah.       cool?         How did       How did you try and cool the baby?       How did made a difference, you know.       And how did you try and keep the baby cl, ah, dry, dry       And cool, yeah.       cool?         How did       How did you try and cool the baby?       How did
24:42

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damp cloths and things like that, you know. And trying to find the coolest spot and move the bassinet around sort of thing, you know?        Yeah. damp cloths and things like that, you know. And trying to find the coolest spot and move the bassinet around sort of thing, you know?        Yeah.
24:52

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Have a ah Have a ah
24:55

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anyway.      And did ,and did you have a copper out the back with the      Yes, copper.      The old copper. anyway.      And did ,and did you have a copper out the back with the      Yes, copper.      The old copper.
25:03

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And no washing machines, you know, and copper out the back and ah, And no washing machines, you know, and copper out the back and ah,
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you'd have to cut the wood, boil the copper. you'd have to cut the wood, boil the copper.
25:15

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And then we didn't have a mangle for a long time. Then we got the, the mangle, that was And then we didn't have a mangle for a long time. Then we got the, the mangle, that was
25:21

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Have you had any broken hips or anything? [laughter] Have you had any broke, broken bones?       No, no. We had, actually we had two cows and um, we always had plenty of milk.       Yes.      The only thing, we had two cows there and      Raw milk.       we used to run Have you had any broken hips or anything? [laughter] Have you had any broke, broken bones?       No, no. We had, actually we had two cows and um, we always had plenty of milk.       Yes.      The only thing, we had two cows there and      Raw milk.       we used to run
25:40

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your milk and make butter and that sort of thing, and ice cream and all that sort of thing, you know. your milk and make butter and that sort of thing, and ice cream and all that sort of thing, you know.
25:47

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How did you cool your ice cream?       Pardon?      How did you cool the ice cream? How did you cool your ice cream?       Pardon?      How did you cool the ice cream?
25:51

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Oh, well, we had a, by that time we had a, a refrigerator, like, you know.       Yes.       And you'd put it in the refrigerator sort of thing, but mmm. Oh, well, we had a, by that time we had a, a refrigerator, like, you know.       Yes.       And you'd put it in the refrigerator sort of thing, but mmm.
26:00

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One elderly lady told me that they used to have an ice cream machine, but they couldn't use it until they had a hail storm in the summer. And they'd wait for that and they'd run out and get, collect all the hail and bring it in, and by that time their mother had made a custard. One elderly lady told me that they used to have an ice cream machine, but they couldn't use it until they had a hail storm in the summer. And they'd wait for that and they'd run out and get, collect all the hail and bring it in, and by that time their mother had made a custard.
26:16

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And they pack all the hailstones around it to cool this custard, and then she'd whip it And they pack all the hailstones around it to cool this custard, and then she'd whip it
26:22

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um, while it was in this machine       Yeah.       and then that was their ice cream.       Ice cream, yes.       It would be like soft ice cream, I suppose, how we have soft serve now. But that, she said, "We used to look for this hail storm in summer so we could have ice cream."       Yeah. um, while it was in this machine       Yeah.       and then that was their ice cream.       Ice cream, yes.       It would be like soft ice cream, I suppose, how we have soft serve now. But that, she said, "We used to look for this hail storm in summer so we could have ice cream."       Yeah.
26:40

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And when I was a kid growing up, we had an ice cream once a week on Sunday.       Yeah.       You couldn't wait for Sunday to come. And you'd have to run around to the shop and get it in a cone, you know. And then you'd um, by the time you'd run back, it'd be half melted. And when I was a kid growing up, we had an ice cream once a week on Sunday.       Yeah.       You couldn't wait for Sunday to come. And you'd have to run around to the shop and get it in a cone, you know. And then you'd um, by the time you'd run back, it'd be half melted.
26:56

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Yes. Yes.
26:57

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Now ice creams are in the freezer for kids all the time, isn't it? Oh, it's a diff, different world.      And there wasn't the flavour range there are now. Now ice creams are in the freezer for kids all the time, isn't it? Oh, it's a diff, different world.      And there wasn't the flavour range there are now.
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There was only vanilla.       Mmm.      And sometimes you could have chocolate, but more      Yes.       nothing else.                 No. There was only vanilla.       Mmm.      And sometimes you could have chocolate, but more      Yes.       nothing else.                 No.
27:15

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No, things have changed. No, things have changed.
27:18

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The thing that always gets me is the, is the rows of, you go in the supermarket and there's all straight rows of toilet paper. I've got a thing about toilet paper. The thing that always gets me is the, is the rows of, you go in the supermarket and there's all straight rows of toilet paper. I've got a thing about toilet paper.
27:30

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And I mean it's embossed, it's ah, flavoured, not flavoured, it's       Perfumed.       Perfumed [laughter] And I mean it's embossed, it's ah, flavoured, not flavoured, it's       Perfumed.       Perfumed [laughter]
27:38

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something else. And I can remember my brother and I, it was our chore to sit down when we were kids and cut up squares of paper and put a little hole through it and then a piece of string and hang it up.       Hang it on the nail. something else. And I can remember my brother and I, it was our chore to sit down when we were kids and cut up squares of paper and put a little hole through it and then a piece of string and hang it up.       Hang it on the nail.
27:53

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in the toilet. in the toilet.
27:55

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The green grocer used to live opposite us in those days and um, he used to get, some of the apples would come in tissue.       Yes, the tissue       Oh, The green grocer used to live opposite us in those days and um, he used to get, some of the apples would come in tissue.       Yes, the tissue       Oh,
28:07

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it was like a Christmas present. [laughter]  it was like a Christmas present. [laughter] 
28:12

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Oh. No, it still fascinates me, the toilet paper really.       Yes, yes.       Funny thing to be fascinated about, but       And was it a flush toilet or was it      Oh, no. Oh. No, it still fascinates me, the toilet paper really.       Yes, yes.       Funny thing to be fascinated about, but       And was it a flush toilet or was it      Oh, no.
28:25

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a pit toilet?        The one,      Oh, you had the, you had the can?       Oh, yes.      Well, we, we had the pit toilet because,                Yeah.       we were country people.       Yes. a pit toilet?        The one,      Oh, you had the, you had the can?       Oh, yes.      Well, we, we had the pit toilet because,                Yeah.       we were country people.       Yes.
28:33

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Come and take it away. Come and take it away.
28:36

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So when we emptied the ash out of our stove      Oh, yes.      it went into a wooden tub outside the toilet.       Oh. So when we emptied the ash out of our stove      Oh, yes.      it went into a wooden tub outside the toilet.       Oh.
28:46

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And we used that.       Yes.      When you'd been to the toilet, you'd put a      The ash.      a fruit tin full of ash, sprinkled it down into the pit. And we used that.       Yes.      When you'd been to the toilet, you'd put a      The ash.      a fruit tin full of ash, sprinkled it down into the pit.
28:58

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Very different. Very different now.       Oh, dear. Very different. Very different now.       Oh, dear.
29:06

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We used to have to put ah, We used to have to put ah,
29:10

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called Creosote or something sometimes to stop the      Phenol. called Creosote or something sometimes to stop the      Phenol.
29:15

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Phenol.       Phenol, yeah.       Yes, that's right, yes.      Oh, my God. [laughter] Phenol.       Phenol, yeah.       Yes, that's right, yes.      Oh, my God. [laughter]
29:20

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The pans in town were dipped in Creosote.      That's right.       The man who actually was the night cart man      Yes.            Yeah.        that was part of his job. When he had, and the cleaning of them. He dipped them in Creosote to return them. The pans in town were dipped in Creosote.      That's right.       The man who actually was the night cart man      Yes.            Yeah.        that was part of his job. When he had, and the cleaning of them. He dipped them in Creosote to return them.
29:35

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So yes, that, that Creosote       Yes. So yes, that, that Creosote       Yes.
29:37

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 odour was there, but that's how it was.   odour was there, but that's how it was. 
29:41

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to remember us so, you know, to remember us so, you know,
29:43

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they wouldn't, they couldn't believe it really.       No.       And then you have your old clothes line, you know, with your prop.       Yeah, with the props.       And then you'd get it all up and you'd have all your washing hung out and then all of a sudden a gust of wind comes and topples all       Oh. they wouldn't, they couldn't believe it really.       No.       And then you have your old clothes line, you know, with your prop.       Yeah, with the props.       And then you'd get it all up and you'd have all your washing hung out and then all of a sudden a gust of wind comes and topples all       Oh.
29:56

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the washing. the washing.
30:01

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And you could pull the, pull the, thing there      Yeah.      and that was better wasn't it. And you could pull the, pull the, thing there      Yeah.      and that was better wasn't it.
30:10

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And then there was the, your bathing, you know, and       Yes. And then there was the, your bathing, you know, and       Yes.
30:15

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oh, that was, that was oh, that was, that was
30:18

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boil the copper and then,      Oh, yes. boil the copper and then,      Oh, yes.
30:21

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water out of it and take it up to the bath for the family. water out of it and take it up to the bath for the family.
30:25

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And then ah, then we got a chip heater. Oh, well [all speaking]. And then ah, then we got a chip heater. Oh, well [all speaking].
30:30

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that  frightened you that  frightened you
30:34

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Used to think the whole house,  Used to think the whole house, 
30:38

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stand there and be stand there and be
30:43

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And have to share the bath. And have to share the bath.
30:46

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Oh, yes. Oh, yes,      Once a week it was. Oh, yes. Oh, yes,      Once a week it was.
30:51

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Yes Yes
30:53

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Ours was on Saturday.       Saturday?       Saturday because of Sunday school next morning. And Mum would have, have ironed, starched the dresses, hung them up on, on the coat hanger on the door and when she, and then you'd have your, your bath that night ready for Sunday school the next day. [laughter] Ours was on Saturday.       Saturday?       Saturday because of Sunday school next morning. And Mum would have, have ironed, starched the dresses, hung them up on, on the coat hanger on the door and when she, and then you'd have your, your bath that night ready for Sunday school the next day. [laughter]
31:13

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Socks and your little white shoes all cleaned sitting there.      And do you ever see anybody ah, darning or  now?      No, no.       Such a darned thing. And clean silver one night a week, you know. Socks and your little white shoes all cleaned sitting there.      And do you ever see anybody ah, darning or  now?      No, no.       Such a darned thing. And clean silver one night a week, you know.
31:27

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Oh, they're, no, embroidering with embroider things and that. You don't see any of that, Oh, they're, no, embroidering with embroider things and that. You don't see any of that,
31:35

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so changed. so changed.
31:37

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Ah, your brain's still full of that, I think. That's why,      That's right.       I don't think I could handle a computer now.                       But you can remember, you were seeing your mother doing these things too. And that      Oh, yes. Ah, your brain's still full of that, I think. That's why,      That's right.       I don't think I could handle a computer now.                       But you can remember, you were seeing your mother doing these things too. And that      Oh, yes.
31:51

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And that's what you did.       But I love going through the antique shops now.       Oh.       We went down to Ulmarra the other day. Have you ever been to that little one opposite And that's what you did.       But I love going through the antique shops now.       Oh.       We went down to Ulmarra the other day. Have you ever been to that little one opposite
32:04

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the hotel? Oh, beautiful and the beautiful furniture.       Yes.      Oh. the hotel? Oh, beautiful and the beautiful furniture.       Yes.      Oh.
32:09

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When I was first married, we had a, got a, a bedroom suite. When I was first married, we had a, got a, a bedroom suite.
32:14

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And all the drawers like were the grooved and that sort of thing, you know. What do they call it? Tongued and grooved and all that. And all the drawers like were the grooved and that sort of thing, you know. What do they call it? Tongued and grooved and all that.
32:21

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And when we came, and it lasted through floods and everything, you know.       Yes, yes.       And it got wet, you know, about that, that high, but And when we came, and it lasted through floods and everything, you know.       Yes, yes.       And it got wet, you know, about that, that high, but
32:30

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when we came out here, I'll get a new bedroom suite. Oh, that looks nice, you know? when we came out here, I'll get a new bedroom suite. Oh, that looks nice, you know?
32:35

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Drawers are falling out of it all the Drawers are falling out of it all the
32:38

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they call them      Yes.  they call them      Yes. 
32:42

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When we went down there the other day, had all this furniture in, in this beautiful shop down there, absolutely magnificent. But you'd need a very big house for it. They must have had a big home,  big old homes, you know, and because some of it's immense, isn't it? I love those Antiques Roadshows, really.       Yes.      I love those. And, and some of the beautiful china and things they have, you know, they made. When we went down there the other day, had all this furniture in, in this beautiful shop down there, absolutely magnificent. But you'd need a very big house for it. They must have had a big home,  big old homes, you know, and because some of it's immense, isn't it? I love those Antiques Roadshows, really.       Yes.      I love those. And, and some of the beautiful china and things they have, you know, they made.
33:08

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Beautiful. I just wonder Beautiful. I just wonder
33:11

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how they did it in those days when, without the tools and the things they've got today, don't you?      And did you put your good china away to use on special occasions or did you bring it out every day? how they did it in those days when, without the tools and the things they've got today, don't you?      And did you put your good china away to use on special occasions or did you bring it out every day?
33:24

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Well, I've got a few things now. I was never one to sort of Well, I've got a few things now. I was never one to sort of
33:28

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look underneath and see where they were, you know. [laughter] look underneath and see where they were, you know. [laughter]
33:33

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But I've started doing that lately, you know, and it's amazing the things that people throw away in garage sales and things that they've got no idea. I got a Wedgwood plate the other day.      A Wedgwood plate?       A beautiful Wedgwood plate, beautiful. But I've started doing that lately, you know, and it's amazing the things that people throw away in garage sales and things that they've got no idea. I got a Wedgwood plate the other day.      A Wedgwood plate?       A beautiful Wedgwood plate, beautiful.
33:49

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[...]. [...].
33:54

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Cleaned up. Cleaned up.
33:57

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But my daughter up at Copmanhurst they've got a real thing about collecting But my daughter up at Copmanhurst they've got a real thing about collecting
34:02

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things like that. And oh, they've got a massive collection of stuff, you know? things like that. And oh, they've got a massive collection of stuff, you know?
34:07

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Beautiful stuff really. But they don't make, make things like it now, do they? Beautiful stuff really. But they don't make, make things like it now, do they?
34:14

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[laughter] [laughter]
34:16

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Ah, well. Ah, well.
34:20

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I think we've seen the best of it.      Well, I think  I think we've seen the best of it.      Well, I think 
34:24

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yeah, I think so. Yeah, I came through the war years in Brisbane, you know. yeah, I think so. Yeah, I came through the war years in Brisbane, you know.
34:30

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I worked at a newspaper there at I worked at a newspaper there at
34:33

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night, you know, come home at night. Walk down from the tram down home and never any worries.      No.      Now, I'm nearly frightened to go out at night. night, you know, come home at night. Walk down from the tram down home and never any worries.      No.      Now, I'm nearly frightened to go out at night.
34:44

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There's something in the paper this morning. I haven't got to reading it yet, but I see on the front page, did you see the paper this morning?       No.       All about what's going on in South Grafton.       Oh, that's terrible.       Oh, I just saw the headlines, you know, that's all. The front page. There's something in the paper this morning. I haven't got to reading it yet, but I see on the front page, did you see the paper this morning?       No.       All about what's going on in South Grafton.       Oh, that's terrible.       Oh, I just saw the headlines, you know, that's all. The front page.
35:00

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Things have to change and people aren't safe, they don't feel safe. We have to change our community so that people do respect one another.       Yes, but Things have to change and people aren't safe, they don't feel safe. We have to change our community so that people do respect one another.       Yes, but
35:13

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Well. Well.