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This is Gai Winter interviewing Tony Siemer for the Email History Project. This is Gai Winter interviewing Tony Siemer for the Email History Project.
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It is Monday, 30th of October, 1995. It is Monday, 30th of October, 1995.
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Good morning Tony. [Tony] Good morning Gai.  [Gai] I was wondering if you'd like to tell us Good morning Tony. [Tony] Good morning Gai.  [Gai] I was wondering if you'd like to tell us
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a little bit about your background, where you were born and went to school and so on. [Tony] Yeah a little bit about your background, where you were born and went to school and so on. [Tony] Yeah
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I was born 6th of May, 1920 in ?Broyle?.  I was born 6th of May, 1920 in ?Broyle?. 
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Did apprenticeship time I don't know when I was 14 til "?I shipped out them and ?". Did apprenticeship time I don't know when I was 14 til "?I shipped out them and ?".
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the whitegoods industry and that gave me the background. When I the whitegoods industry and that gave me the background. When I
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finished finished
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a bunch of time, had a choice to make to go to engineering school in Cologne a bunch of time, had a choice to make to go to engineering school in Cologne
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Me first, and seeing that there were four 4 years involved, Me first, and seeing that there were four 4 years involved,
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Decided to go to the, er, army first.  And then that was completed Decided to go to the, er, army first.  And then that was completed
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I would have gone then to engineering school, but unfortunately everything went down after I would have gone then to engineering school, but unfortunately everything went down after
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Finished up with 6 years war and still have no engineering Finished up with 6 years war and still have no engineering
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school to go to because from '45 to '48 there was no school to go to because from '45 to '48 there was no
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possibility to go anywhere close to these institutions because they didn't function. possibility to go anywhere close to these institutions because they didn't function.
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It was It was
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a bit light. I had already a good job with Umbria elexatasvac which a bit light. I had already a good job with Umbria elexatasvac which
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is more or less the Electricity County Council for Hamburg, an is more or less the Electricity County Council for Hamburg, an
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apprentice in that brand for three years, and after that apprentice in that brand for three years, and after that
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I lost my job go back to do some tool making I lost my job go back to do some tool making
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because at the time there was not much to make anymore. Teaching went tight because at the time there was not much to make anymore. Teaching went tight
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so. I had so. I had
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a good job with Hamburg making dice, custom moulds. a good job with Hamburg making dice, custom moulds.
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Any tools, any tools at all and it was Any tools, any tools at all and it was
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very beneficial because it was a way I could improve my original trade. very beneficial because it was a way I could improve my original trade.
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. .
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Industry and she had one day I come home and she asked me what I would think about Industry and she had one day I come home and she asked me what I would think about
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coming to Australia and um [Elisabeth] So that was the first time that the idea coming to Australia and um [Elisabeth] So that was the first time that the idea
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of going to Australian actually occurred to you [Tony] Yep So it was of going to Australian actually occurred to you [Tony] Yep So it was
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a joke because she indicated before that she was interested for Canada or America  a joke because she indicated before that she was interested for Canada or America 
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Wasn't even ah, you know on the map but she explained to me why she might have Wasn't even ah, you know on the map but she explained to me why she might have
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been interested because one of her mates in the shop  been interested because one of her mates in the shop 
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had a friend living in Australian and she received plenty of correspondence from Australia and everything was had a friend living in Australian and she received plenty of correspondence from Australia and everything was
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pleasant, so at least I did not  pleasant, so at least I did not 
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commit myself then and there but I enquired with the Australian consul in Hamburg  commit myself then and there but I enquired with the Australian consul in Hamburg 
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to my surprise everything seemed to be ok, Australia looked, once they found out my to my surprise everything seemed to be ok, Australia looked, once they found out my
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Australia needed toolmakers and  Australia needed toolmakers and 
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in particular one company which they couldn't get toolmakers at that time  in particular one company which they couldn't get toolmakers at that time 
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which was Email, um so I went further into it and finally  which was Email, um so I went further into it and finally 
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we decided to make the move. I signed the papers and my contract for two years  we decided to make the move. I signed the papers and my contract for two years 
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with Email, accommodation for two years so that was they secured enough  with Email, accommodation for two years so that was they secured enough 
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for us to do it. for us to do it.
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You made the decision to come to Australia, and did you come straight to Orange when you arrived?  You made the decision to come to Australia, and did you come straight to Orange when you arrived? 
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Yes. Ah we arrived in Melbourne and  Yes. Ah we arrived in Melbourne and 
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the day we arrived was St Nicholas' 6th December and on the boat, we had organised to have  the day we arrived was St Nicholas' 6th December and on the boat, we had organised to have 
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to have some ah, presentations to the children because they're used to that to have some ah, presentations to the children because they're used to that
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and they had them all of them, I went to the captain and asked if we could have and they had them all of them, I went to the captain and asked if we could have
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permission if we could stay a little bit longer on board to finalise that situation and he allowed us  permission if we could stay a little bit longer on board to finalise that situation and he allowed us 
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that so all the children got presents from St Nicholas. that so all the children got presents from St Nicholas.
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Out of from the boat we went into trains, Out of from the boat we went into trains,
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these trains brought us to Bonegilla there we had a stop for four weeks these trains brought us to Bonegilla there we had a stop for four weeks
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the papers, the papers you know the papers which we had to have the papers, the papers you know the papers which we had to have
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before we could start work in any industry at all before we could start work in any industry at all
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then arrangements were made to move us from Bonegilla to ahOrange  then arrangements were made to move us from Bonegilla to ahOrange 
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and that was the beginning of a new life [Gai] So this was December 1953 was it? [Tony] It was December 1952  and that was the beginning of a new life [Gai] So this was December 1953 was it? [Tony] It was December 1952 
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1952 and you reached Orange therefore at the beginning of  1952 and you reached Orange therefore at the beginning of 
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1953 [Tony] Yes just before New Years Day  1953 [Tony] Yes just before New Years Day 
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And what when you arrived at Orange you started work at Email immediately? And what when you arrived at Orange you started work at Email immediately?
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Ah you could call it immediately, we had  Ah you could call it immediately, we had 
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a couple of days because it was a public holiday, that was a couple of days because it was a public holiday, that was
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did fall on my day naturally we didn't know that did fall on my day naturally we didn't know that
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that Monday management took us over to the plant and we had a look that Monday management took us over to the plant and we had a look
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a little inspection of the plant  a little inspection of the plant 
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as a whole, in particular the tool room, more or less we were  as a whole, in particular the tool room, more or less we were 
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surprised that the modern machinery was already in place  surprised that the modern machinery was already in place 
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in the tool room which we didn't expect. We didn't know much about how far in the tool room which we didn't expect. We didn't know much about how far
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Australia was advanced in that kind of area that area but the machinery looked all good  Australia was advanced in that kind of area that area but the machinery looked all good 
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good to us so we looked forward to starting the next day. good to us so we looked forward to starting the next day.
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The whole crew, all the toolmakers all were put into the afternoon shift all together The whole crew, all the toolmakers all were put into the afternoon shift all together
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with a supervisor by the name of with a supervisor by the name of
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Gavin and he took control of the lot Gavin and he took control of the lot
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So it was good you had someone that had a little So it was good you had someone that had a little
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bit of an idea of the language, you wouldn't have spoken any English by that stage? [Tony] No, so far as  bit of an idea of the language, you wouldn't have spoken any English by that stage? [Tony] No, so far as 
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absolutely nobody could speak fluent English  absolutely nobody could speak fluent English 
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it was all [Gai]So how long did you work for Email it was all [Gai]So how long did you work for Email
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from when you started to when you retired? [Tony] Glad you asked me that because  from when you started to when you retired? [Tony] Glad you asked me that because 
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Jeremy my father said you don't have to say goodbye much, two years and you'll be back Jeremy my father said you don't have to say goodbye much, two years and you'll be back
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Two years was the target for us for the beginning, you know, at least we had   Two years was the target for us for the beginning, you know, at least we had  
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security and you know and two years is security and you know and two years is
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a long time. But doing the two years of course a long time. But doing the two years of course
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a lot of things happened. It did to us, which made us decide to remain in  a lot of things happened. It did to us, which made us decide to remain in 
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Orange, regardless of contract, no it was  Orange, regardless of contract, no it was 
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a wise decision that proved very successful for me and my a wise decision that proved very successful for me and my
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family, particularly the kids you know they had a  family, particularly the kids you know they had a 
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a bright future here in this country for which we are still very thankful a bright future here in this country for which we are still very thankful
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I'm aware they've done very well. And what kinds of work did you do over the years at Email I'm aware they've done very well. And what kinds of work did you do over the years at Email
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was it toolmaker? [Tony] Well in the beginning they put on a  was it toolmaker? [Tony] Well in the beginning they put on a 
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a mainly late um that was for quite a while I think at least a mainly late um that was for quite a while I think at least
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three or four weeks and unfortunately this started in a   three or four weeks and unfortunately this started in a  
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in a in a
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a German, unfriendly environment people didn't know much about us so  a German, unfriendly environment people didn't know much about us so 
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except what they read in the media, and the media was not very German friendly either, because two except what they read in the media, and the media was not very German friendly either, because two
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days after our arrival a big article appeared in the Central Western Daily, err, telling the people  days after our arrival a big article appeared in the Central Western Daily, err, telling the people 
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what what
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they found in our luggages, you know, Nazi material and all that kind of thing. And um, pictures were also they found in our luggages, you know, Nazi material and all that kind of thing. And um, pictures were also
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taken.  Nobody knows where they got that material from. Definitely not from  taken.  Nobody knows where they got that material from. Definitely not from 
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in the area at that particular time. And so we found ourselves in in the area at that particular time. And so we found ourselves in
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a very, err, unfriendly environment to work in. Err, the second day after a very, err, unfriendly environment to work in. Err, the second day after
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come back to afternoon shift, a big err, congregation had taken  come back to afternoon shift, a big err, congregation had taken 
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I could not understand it. English was err, there at all. I could not understand it. English was err, there at all.
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I called on Mr. Fisher to explain why the I called on Mr. Fisher to explain why the
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ah hostile, he explained to me that, er, that the day shift turner ah hostile, he explained to me that, er, that the day shift turner
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who worked on the same machine I worked in the night done a certain err, number of who worked on the same machine I worked in the night done a certain err, number of
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punches. What we call productivity.  Err, my productivity in the night shift was double as much  punches. What we call productivity.  Err, my productivity in the night shift was double as much 
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and that was not err, acceptable.  But nobody told us that and that was not err, acceptable.  But nobody told us that
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in advance. So after that err, we changed a little bit in advance. So after that err, we changed a little bit
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a bit. And in that way we became very good Aussies. a bit. And in that way we became very good Aussies.
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Good [Tony] Workaholic. [Gai] They're not, they didn't work quite as fast as the Good [Tony] Workaholic. [Gai] They're not, they didn't work quite as fast as the
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Well I wouldn't have blamed it on their willingness to do the work.  Maybe the way Well I wouldn't have blamed it on their willingness to do the work.  Maybe the way
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they, you know, they're probably different.  they, you know, they're probably different. 
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[Tony] a lot of people who worked on lathes and, and shapers, they're not qualified tradesmen, here in the camp. So [Gai] So they wouldn't have [Tony] a lot of people who worked on lathes and, and shapers, they're not qualified tradesmen, here in the camp. So [Gai] So they wouldn't have
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[Gai] Wouldn't have had the expertise you had. [Tony] No they had not.  That would probably  be the [Gai] Wouldn't have had the expertise you had. [Tony] No they had not.  That would probably  be the
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explanation why explanation why
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[Tony] doing more punches in the night shift. You know, but, it was sorted out.  [Gai] Did you receive any [Tony] doing more punches in the night shift. You know, but, it was sorted out.  [Gai] Did you receive any
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extra job err, job training once you arrived here, or was that not necessary with the extra job err, job training once you arrived here, or was that not necessary with the
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[Gai] background that you had.  [Tony] No, it wasn't necessary, but I still had.  See we had to go [Gai] background that you had.  [Tony] No, it wasn't necessary, but I still had.  See we had to go
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to to
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[Tony] Technical College. [Gai] Right, TAFE? [Tony] You know, to what do you call it, toolmaker.  I think [Tony] Technical College. [Gai] Right, TAFE? [Tony] You know, to what do you call it, toolmaker.  I think
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it's the same situation here, later on.  You had to stay in Tech, to make a special course to become  it's the same situation here, later on.  You had to stay in Tech, to make a special course to become 
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[Tony] a, a toolmaker, you know. Finish up to a fitter and turner.   [Gai] That's right. So that leads into a [Tony] a, a toolmaker, you know. Finish up to a fitter and turner.   [Gai] That's right. So that leads into a
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[Gai] position, eventually. [Tony] Yes, yes. [Gai] Are there any people who stand out in your memory from your time [Gai] position, eventually. [Tony] Yes, yes. [Gai] Are there any people who stand out in your memory from your time
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[Gai] time there? [Tony] Yes a particular foreman who was English [Gai] time there? [Tony] Yes a particular foreman who was English
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background, he came from England.  And err, I remember that he wasn't background, he came from England.  And err, I remember that he wasn't
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very German friendly at all. I was told that prior to  very German friendly at all. I was told that prior to 
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? ?
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being at the Email plant, concerning the German arrivals. Err, I don't know if it is true or not being at the Email plant, concerning the German arrivals. Err, I don't know if it is true or not
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got confirmation of that, because he did that. And err, the supervisor got confirmation of that, because he did that. And err, the supervisor
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by the name, no you don't want a name.  Oh well, Maynard, by the name, no you don't want a name.  Oh well, Maynard,
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tried to be fair, and I, I cannot remember that he tried to be fair, and I, I cannot remember that he
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he, particular picked on Germans to make it hard for them. he, particular picked on Germans to make it hard for them.
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[Tony] Get's heated [Gai] So how did you feel about the working conditions when you got to Email [Tony] Get's heated [Gai] So how did you feel about the working conditions when you got to Email
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and, and over the time you were there, what was the safety situation like, was it  and, and over the time you were there, what was the safety situation like, was it 
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[Gai] a pleasant place to work? Err, how did the unions contribute? [Tony] Well I would say that made me [Gai] a pleasant place to work? Err, how did the unions contribute? [Tony] Well I would say that made me
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get active in the unions because of the backwards conditions we worked under.  get active in the unions because of the backwards conditions we worked under. 
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You know and a You know and a
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a lot of things had to be changed in that time. A strong union movement was warranted a lot of things had to be changed in that time. A strong union movement was warranted
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on the whole circumstances, and my first union on the whole circumstances, and my first union
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involvement was that ASE involvement was that ASE
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Australasian Society of Engineers because he came to us Australasian Society of Engineers because he came to us
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A bit German, he was A bit German, he was
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Polish that union delegate. And he told us, err, not really, we had not much choice Polish that union delegate. And he told us, err, not really, we had not much choice
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 because other union is very militant and communist controlled.  Of course  because other union is very militant and communist controlled.  Of course
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none, no delegates of that union attended that meeting. You know, to none, no delegates of that union attended that meeting. You know, to
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tell us otherwise. So we all as a block we go to ASE tell us otherwise. So we all as a block we go to ASE
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and I was not sorry about it, because I had met and I was not sorry about it, because I had met
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a man, he will remain in my memory for the rest of my life because of his involvement  a man, he will remain in my memory for the rest of my life because of his involvement 
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and conditions. His name was Tom Blee, and ah he really made an impression on me that and conditions. His name was Tom Blee, and ah he really made an impression on me that
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I would be involved, would involve myself in the trade union movement. I would be involved, would involve myself in the trade union movement.
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That took place in '54, when and I became That took place in '54, when and I became
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a delegate to the Combined Union of the Email plant. And, err a delegate to the Combined Union of the Email plant. And, err
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my memory, that combined, that committee, done a very very good job in the early 50s my memory, that combined, that committee, done a very very good job in the early 50s
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[Tony] 50s to improve some of the conditions which existed. [Gai] Are there any other [Tony] 50s to improve some of the conditions which existed. [Gai] Are there any other
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[Gai]significant events, good or bad, that stand out in your memory? [Tony] No, no bad [Gai]significant events, good or bad, that stand out in your memory? [Tony] No, no bad
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[Tony] bad, at all, no bad, all good. [Gai] That's good. Were there are occasions when you felt part of the [Tony] bad, at all, no bad, all good. [Gai] That's good. Were there are occasions when you felt part of the
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[Gai] community at the plant? How did you feel about your involvement at the plant? [Tony] Well I wanted [Gai] community at the plant? How did you feel about your involvement at the plant? [Tony] Well I wanted
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at the beginning I was at the beginning I was
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a bit concerned. Start to make me wonder why a bit concerned. Start to make me wonder why
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was, was split so far as the trade union movement was concerned.  One section was the unskilled. was, was split so far as the trade union movement was concerned.  One section was the unskilled.
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block and other one was the skilled block, you know the other trades people. It did not  block and other one was the skilled block, you know the other trades people. It did not 
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go together. go together.
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They both went their own way. And I thought for the betterment of conditions They both went their own way. And I thought for the betterment of conditions
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in in
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the plant it would be much better if they would go together, you know.  And I think it never happened the plant it would be much better if they would go together, you know.  And I think it never happened
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in all my years. Always a strong move on the trades section to remain in all my years. Always a strong move on the trades section to remain
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isolated, to remain on their own.  Even isolated, to remain on their own.  Even
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recall, became later a shop steward recall, became later a shop steward
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went up the tool room. The tool room did not tolerate my involvement.  With the went up the tool room. The tool room did not tolerate my involvement.  With the
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combined Union. To look after the interests of the unskilled workers. And so in the combined Union. To look after the interests of the unskilled workers. And so in the
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finish, I told him I would not stand as finish, I told him I would not stand as
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a shop steward.  If they don't allowed me to have a shop steward.  If they don't allowed me to have
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became then secretary of the combined union, you know, if they didn't allow me to, err, do my job. became then secretary of the combined union, you know, if they didn't allow me to, err, do my job.
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And I wouldn't be longer a shop steward.  So I did not stand for election that year but And I wouldn't be longer a shop steward.  So I did not stand for election that year but
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the combined union management, approached management, and told them that they wanted me to remain secretary of the combined union management, approached management, and told them that they wanted me to remain secretary of
18:03

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the combined union. She agreed and I accepted, so I remained secretary of the combined union, the combined union. She agreed and I accepted, so I remained secretary of the combined union,
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but err, fortunately or unfortunately, the other years but err, fortunately or unfortunately, the other years
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they asked me to take they asked me to take
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[Tony] the shop steward back. They didn't have a good replacement.  [Gai] You're talking about skilled and unskilled workers.  What about [Tony] the shop steward back. They didn't have a good replacement.  [Gai] You're talking about skilled and unskilled workers.  What about
18:24

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[Gai] about men and women did they mix together socially in the plant much?  [Tony] Yes, there was no [Gai] about men and women did they mix together socially in the plant much?  [Tony] Yes, there was no
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demarcation but, what always sticks strong in my mind demarcation but, what always sticks strong in my mind
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is err, discrimination between err, pay.  Payments is err, discrimination between err, pay.  Payments
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to a woman and male workers. Women to a woman and male workers. Women
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well paid below the man's wages. You know, and again well paid below the man's wages. You know, and again
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the man Tom Lee, He done so much for the women. Bring them up to the man Tom Lee, He done so much for the women. Bring them up to
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scratch, you know, in all respects. And err, he achieved quite scratch, you know, in all respects. And err, he achieved quite
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a bit, you know, we finished up that we were well ahead of the rest of the female work force in Orange. a bit, you know, we finished up that we were well ahead of the rest of the female work force in Orange.
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Discrimination advisors and that was concern because, in the beginning they had a Discrimination advisors and that was concern because, in the beginning they had a
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err, a standard wage or a err, a standard wage or a
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basic rate it was called. And married money for trades people and the bonus system for basic rate it was called. And married money for trades people and the bonus system for
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process workers, you know. And the bonus system in that time worked very well process workers, you know. And the bonus system in that time worked very well
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except, some of the people, did not gain the skills to bring product- except, some of the people, did not gain the skills to bring product-
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-tivity to the level to receive the bonus. And others were smarter and got into -tivity to the level to receive the bonus. And others were smarter and got into
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it quick and they received a bonus which the company reckoned was a it quick and they received a bonus which the company reckoned was a
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a bit too high. So they cut the top off on the bonus. That, of course, a bit too high. So they cut the top off on the bonus. That, of course,
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some err, upheaval with the rest of the women. But err, some err, upheaval with the rest of the women. But err,
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later on they realised the bonus system did not work well and it was then later on they realised the bonus system did not work well and it was then
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scrapped later. And over award payments were made to the workers involved.  scrapped later. And over award payments were made to the workers involved. 
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And that of course, err, created some division again because, people were And that of course, err, created some division again because, people were
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done their days work they didn't receive done their days work they didn't receive
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a penny more than that the one's who did a great job.  You know, because the over award payment was  a penny more than that the one's who did a great job.  You know, because the over award payment was 
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[Tony] given to everyone. [Gai] Oh right, so, didn't balance up. [Tony] No, no productivity was involved any more. [Tony] given to everyone. [Gai] Oh right, so, didn't balance up. [Tony] No, no productivity was involved any more.
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But once you work on the line, you know, you hand your production to the next one and if But once you work on the line, you know, you hand your production to the next one and if
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there's a slow one in the same, that will handicap the there's a slow one in the same, that will handicap the
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[Tony] rest of the group. [Gai] The rest of the group. What other differences were there? Did the [Tony] rest of the group. [Gai] The rest of the group. What other differences were there? Did the
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[Gai] language differences cause a problem or religious differences at all? There is talk of [Tony] No... [Gai] language differences cause a problem or religious differences at all? There is talk of [Tony] No...
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At that time we had a manager, the name of Battery, Err, he was At that time we had a manager, the name of Battery, Err, he was
21:29

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 British. So it was  British. So it was
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a little bit of err, err, what's the word?  You know, British people are a little bit of err, err, what's the word?  You know, British people are
21:40

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to move quicker in, in promotions and all that, you know, we found that foremans and to move quicker in, in promotions and all that, you know, we found that foremans and
21:45

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supervisors are more, more British, you know.  And later on supervisors are more, more British, you know.  And later on
21:54

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some Catholic err, came on top, you know, and that went through the system. You had to some Catholic err, came on top, you know, and that went through the system. You had to
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be good Catholic to get somewhere, you know and all that. No, otherwise, no the language be good Catholic to get somewhere, you know and all that. No, otherwise, no the language
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I have to admit, my kids got handicapped because we didn't speak I have to admit, my kids got handicapped because we didn't speak
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German at home. They never learned the language at all. Err, we picked from the German at home. They never learned the language at all. Err, we picked from the
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kids the language and that helped us. And learnt English because of the kids. kids the language and that helped us. And learnt English because of the kids.
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[Tony] involvement much quicker than a lot of other people did. [Gai] It was said that chess was [Tony] involvement much quicker than a lot of other people did. [Gai] It was said that chess was
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a universal language that was, err, introduced at Email. a universal language that was, err, introduced at Email.
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Because on the ship already, we had a clique or Because on the ship already, we had a clique or
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a group of people playing really good, well, chess, and you know you had a group of people playing really good, well, chess, and you know you had
22:51

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at least, 20-25 percent of the people on the boat playing at least, 20-25 percent of the people on the boat playing
22:58

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chess with everywhere you went,  you saw them playing chess. chess with everywhere you went,  you saw them playing chess.
23:07

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Situation here too, played chess.  You don't have to talk any language at all, Chess Situation here too, played chess.  You don't have to talk any language at all, Chess
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is on, you know. Makes you understand the character of the person much quicker is on, you know. Makes you understand the character of the person much quicker
23:22

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[Tony] than  [Gai] You mentioned before a champion player. What was his name? [Tony] than  [Gai] You mentioned before a champion player. What was his name?
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Iratsa, He worked in the fitter shop in Email.  He was one of Iratsa, He worked in the fitter shop in Email.  He was one of
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the best fitter Email ever had. the best fitter Email ever had.
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You know he had knowledge, he had knowledge You know he had knowledge, he had knowledge
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most of the fund they gained with his expertise in putting most of the fund they gained with his expertise in putting
23:51

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machines together you know, and all that.  He was machines together you know, and all that.  He was
23:55

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He wasgood, err, I would say at the present time, he's one of the top players He wasgood, err, I would say at the present time, he's one of the top players
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in New South Wales. in New South Wales.
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[Gai] That's really good.  How did the people at Email feel about the other residents of Orange? [Gai] That's really good.  How did the people at Email feel about the other residents of Orange?
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Was there any feelings of um...Did you feel comfortable with the people of Orange? And did the feelings change? Was there any feelings of um...Did you feel comfortable with the people of Orange? And did the feelings change?
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[Gai] change over time? [Tony] No, err, I felt reasonably comfortable, because I had to [Gai] change over time? [Tony] No, err, I felt reasonably comfortable, because I had to
24:23

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leave the hostel at an early time. The situation was that the leave the hostel at an early time. The situation was that the
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federal government, err, ripped us off, with our finance. You know they charged us federal government, err, ripped us off, with our finance. You know they charged us
24:38

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that high, err, dues in the arrangement, no we  that high, err, dues in the arrangement, no we 
24:45

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in the beginning we were on about 14 pounds the Commonwealth took about 10 pounds in the beginning we were on about 14 pounds the Commonwealth took about 10 pounds
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of it to pay for the food and the accommodation.  of it to pay for the food and the accommodation. 
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And that didn't leave us much. So Iater on, the other problem And that didn't leave us much. So Iater on, the other problem
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where kids couldn't eat the food any more. It was too fatty. You know, they vomited it out again, you know. where kids couldn't eat the food any more. It was too fatty. You know, they vomited it out again, you know.
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Was inedible. So we had to supplement our food intake, you know Was inedible. So we had to supplement our food intake, you know
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A bit expensive, because of the little bit of money we had, we had to spend on extra food. A bit expensive, because of the little bit of money we had, we had to spend on extra food.
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So six months after we arrived in the hostel, we decided to go outside and. So six months after we arrived in the hostel, we decided to go outside and.
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Lucky I found Lucky I found
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a house.  Owned by Powell. He said I could go into the house, pay my rent, but a house.  Owned by Powell. He said I could go into the house, pay my rent, but
25:41

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I would have to leave the house once he could sell it, he wanted to sell it, he lived in Sydney. I agreed to I would have to leave the house once he could sell it, he wanted to sell it, he lived in Sydney. I agreed to
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that. It still, took about 6 months before they had, could sell it. that. It still, took about 6 months before they had, could sell it.
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[Tony] Bought the place in which I still live today.  [Gai] And what was, when you  [Tony] Bought the place in which I still live today.  [Gai] And what was, when you 
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first came to Email where did you live?  You mentioned the Dude Ranch.  was that, that the first came to Email where did you live?  You mentioned the Dude Ranch.  was that, that the
26:07

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[Gai] first accommodation you had.  [Tony] That was the Commonwealth hostel [Gai] Yes. [Tony] Yes, Nissan huts. You know, the round ones [Gai] first accommodation you had.  [Tony] That was the Commonwealth hostel [Gai] Yes. [Tony] Yes, Nissan huts. You know, the round ones
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yes  I remember those. [Tony] They make were quite good, they were new when we came.  Nobody lived yes  I remember those. [Tony] They make were quite good, they were new when we came.  Nobody lived
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lived in them before.  And we had three rooms in it. So definitely could not complain about the that accommodation. lived in them before.  And we had three rooms in it. So definitely could not complain about the that accommodation.
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[Tony] It was only the food which was intolerable, you know. [Gai] And err, [Tony] It was only the food which was intolerable, you know. [Gai] And err,
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so, you just mentioned that you moved err, moved into rented accommodation and then so, you just mentioned that you moved err, moved into rented accommodation and then
26:37

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into your own home.  Err, mainly to help the children and and make life easier for them.  And into your own home.  Err, mainly to help the children and and make life easier for them.  And
26:43

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can you remember what your neighbourhood was like then?  The err, was there can you remember what your neighbourhood was like then?  The err, was there
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[Gai] many parks, where did the children play? That sort of thing? [Tony] Yes, err, the house I had for rent had a  [Gai] many parks, where did the children play? That sort of thing? [Tony] Yes, err, the house I had for rent had a 
26:52

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park right across the street. Where the old gas works were. You know, and there was park right across the street. Where the old gas works were. You know, and there was
26:58

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[Tony] a little swimming pool, in that street too, you know next to the gas .  [Gai] That was before my time. [Tony] a little swimming pool, in that street too, you know next to the gas .  [Gai] That was before my time.
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But it was But it was
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a very small swimming pool, but the kids loved it. And it was just a very small swimming pool, but the kids loved it. And it was just
27:13

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a minute from my house but, in front of the swimming pool was a minute from my house but, in front of the swimming pool was
27:17

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a children's playground, with swings and that type of thing, you know, and sliding a children's playground, with swings and that type of thing, you know, and sliding
27:25

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 and err, that helped us, because err, the kids had to wait a half an  and err, that helped us, because err, the kids had to wait a half an
27:32

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hour before my wife came home, you know, from school.  So she went to the swim, to the play hour before my wife came home, you know, from school.  So she went to the swim, to the play
27:39

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ground and err, one day, err, that is when I had my first contact with some of it,  ground and err, one day, err, that is when I had my first contact with some of it, 
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good neighbours, um, my daughter did fall from the swing, she was brought to the good neighbours, um, my daughter did fall from the swing, she was brought to the
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hospital and we didn't know where she was. Err, one of the neighbours took hospital and we didn't know where she was. Err, one of the neighbours took
28:01

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informed us what happened, and he took us to the hospital, in his car but, informed us what happened, and he took us to the hospital, in his car but,
28:08

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injuries, she had a cut on the forehead, you know.  But that was the first time we got injuries, she had a cut on the forehead, you know.  But that was the first time we got
28:13

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[Tony] in contact with Australians as a neighbour.  [Gai] Hmm, so your neighbours were basically [Tony] in contact with Australians as a neighbour.  [Gai] Hmm, so your neighbours were basically
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friendly? [Tony] Yes. [Gai] And accepting? [Tony] Yes,  even later on err, when we bought the place in Nile Street friendly? [Tony] Yes. [Gai] And accepting? [Tony] Yes,  even later on err, when we bought the place in Nile Street
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[Tony] We couldn't ask for better neighbours. They were helpful. [Gai] I'm very pleased for that. [Tony] We couldn't ask for better neighbours. They were helpful. [Gai] I'm very pleased for that.
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And err, just looking at the differences at that time in the way err, people functioned And err, just looking at the differences at that time in the way err, people functioned
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in terms of women working and the housework and so on, how did that, do you think  in terms of women working and the housework and so on, how did that, do you think 
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the differences in your house because of your background? Or, err, how did this work at your place? the differences in your house because of your background? Or, err, how did this work at your place?
28:54

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They were They were
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maybe it missed me there but err, chores of the house, what had to be done, had to be maybe it missed me there but err, chores of the house, what had to be done, had to be
29:01

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shared. I done my washing up and I done the wash,  I done the cleaning, the vacuum shared. I done my washing up and I done the wash,  I done the cleaning, the vacuum
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cleaning. You know, the wife, she had enough to do with the cooking and then cleaning. You know, the wife, she had enough to do with the cooking and then
29:16

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make sure that we have something to eat.  So we, but that, but that was common already back home, you know make sure that we have something to eat.  So we, but that, but that was common already back home, you know
29:23

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That was probably a bit unusual for That was probably a bit unusual for
29:25

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[Gai] Australian men at that time. I think they've changed now. [Tony] Quite sure [Gai] Australian men at that time. I think they've changed now. [Tony] Quite sure
29:31

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and how was your home life affected by your job?  Was it is easy to get to work? Did you have friends from work? and how was your home life affected by your job?  Was it is easy to get to work? Did you have friends from work?
29:38

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[Gai] That sort of thing? [Tony] Oh yes. I mean, every, every  year, the situation got [Gai] That sort of thing? [Tony] Oh yes. I mean, every, every  year, the situation got
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got two sides.  You know, Alright, I said in the beginning we had a German unfriendly environment, got two sides.  You know, Alright, I said in the beginning we had a German unfriendly environment,
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changed, I would say, considerable fast, that situation. You know, even changed, I would say, considerable fast, that situation. You know, even
29:60

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a year later that was all gone. There was no, dislike of a year later that was all gone. There was no, dislike of
30:07

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Germans, you know.  It always depends on the person themselves. Germans, you know.  It always depends on the person themselves.
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I mean, I know, some people in '54,  that was already the start of my involvement I mean, I know, some people in '54,  that was already the start of my involvement
30:21

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involvement, not only in the trade union movement but,  err, my involvement in  community involvement, not only in the trade union movement but,  err, my involvement in  community
30:28

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I got more interested. What the communities doing as a whole and where can I I got more interested. What the communities doing as a whole and where can I
30:34

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a bit on this other thing and later on I got so much involved in it, that my kids didn't a bit on this other thing and later on I got so much involved in it, that my kids didn't
30:40

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[Tony] know their father anymore. [Gai]  So the, the Email was a [Tony] know their father anymore. [Gai]  So the, the Email was a
30:45

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[Gai] a very involving part of your life then , obviously.  [Tony] I would say so, what I'd like of the plant [Gai] a very involving part of your life then , obviously.  [Tony] I would say so, what I'd like of the plant
30:52

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toolroom, err, the help we gave each other.  Now I toolroom, err, the help we gave each other.  Now I
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for my little sickness benefit fund, you know, for people who get in hardship and for my little sickness benefit fund, you know, for people who get in hardship and
31:08

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was a huge success. Especially after the1st people I got the benefit of it, because was a huge success. Especially after the1st people I got the benefit of it, because
31:16

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through sickness, err, now no fault of their own, got into bad trouble. through sickness, err, now no fault of their own, got into bad trouble.
31:23

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Stepped in and helped. I remember, a young fellow got into Stepped in and helped. I remember, a young fellow got into
31:30

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 killed on the road in a car. You shouldn't have  killed on the road in a car. You shouldn't have
31:36

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experienced that situation. The toolroom stuck together and that woman she had no problems at all.  She had two kids experienced that situation. The toolroom stuck together and that woman she had no problems at all.  She had two kids
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you know, we helped as far as we could.  And later on when management realised how much we did you know, we helped as far as we could.  And later on when management realised how much we did
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with that, they helped fund with that, they helped fund
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a ???? to it. It was a ???? to it. It was
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a very, err, community, tight group. a very, err, community, tight group.
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And Tom Lee created the same thing, he created the hospital fund And Tom Lee created the same thing, he created the hospital fund
32:11

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[Tony] which still runs today. [Gai] Oh right.  [Tony] You know, when people go in hospital and get no wages [Tony] which still runs today. [Gai] Oh right.  [Tony] You know, when people go in hospital and get no wages
32:18

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There's quite a bit There's quite a bit
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[Tony] a bit, help coming out of that fund. If the Hardship sets in, you know. [Gai] That's good to know. And err [Tony] a bit, help coming out of that fund. If the Hardship sets in, you know. [Gai] That's good to know. And err
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[Gai] Did the shift work effect you at all? Did you...[Tony] Err, no.  The shift work didn't last long it was only [Gai] Did the shift work effect you at all? Did you...[Tony] Err, no.  The shift work didn't last long it was only
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months, you know, they needed us on the bench You know, they couldn't afford to leave us on months, you know, they needed us on the bench You know, they couldn't afford to leave us on
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wage and on the machinery. They needed us on the bench particular, in that time err wage and on the machinery. They needed us on the bench particular, in that time err
32:45

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Email started to, that was in '54, started to look into err, plastic production Email started to, that was in '54, started to look into err, plastic production
32:53

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One of the top man of Email, Wally Stem was sent to America. One of the top man of Email, Wally Stem was sent to America.
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So far as technology is concerned and all that. And as far as I recall I was only So far as technology is concerned and all that. And as far as I recall I was only
33:06

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[Tony] expert on plastic  moulds.  [Gai] I'm interested in the [Tony] expert on plastic  moulds.  [Gai] I'm interested in the
33:12

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technology. Err you mentioned the plastics work and so on technology. Err you mentioned the plastics work and so on
33:19

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[Gai]changes that were occurring there, they would have affected your work at the plant. [Tony] I [Gai]changes that were occurring there, they would have affected your work at the plant. [Tony] I
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I would say so, I think the change I would say so, I think the change
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the change, which came about, going into plastic, was equal  the change, which came about, going into plastic, was equal 
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important to Email and later on the computers.  It was the first step in going away important to Email and later on the computers.  It was the first step in going away
33:41

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a little bit off the metal production.  And err,  plastic was a little bit off the metal production.  And err,  plastic was
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well known to me. At that time and I knew already 180 different well known to me. At that time and I knew already 180 different
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classifications in the state of plastic, you know. And err, I  classifications in the state of plastic, you know. And err, I 
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in making the molds for the in making the molds for the
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a plastic you know and at that time the 1st plastic moulding machine arrived at a plastic you know and at that time the 1st plastic moulding machine arrived at
34:12

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Email from err, John? that was the company of Melbourne.  And it was a prototype Email from err, John? that was the company of Melbourne.  And it was a prototype
34:20

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Not 100% Not 100%
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per cent effect, affected.  That machine was put in place, and Wally ?Stem? and myself per cent effect, affected.  That machine was put in place, and Wally ?Stem? and myself
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Went on the machine and I get it operating, you know. And err, some of the plastic moulds Went on the machine and I get it operating, you know. And err, some of the plastic moulds
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the first one were made on contract someone else, not Email at that time  was not in the first one were made on contract someone else, not Email at that time  was not in
34:41

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a position to build plastic mould. We had to make them workable you know and we a position to build plastic mould. We had to make them workable you know and we
34:47

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put them in and they didn't work. Especially when you shoot the plastic in and  put them in and they didn't work. Especially when you shoot the plastic in and 
34:55

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we had to make the 2 halves seal so that the plastic didn't we had to make the 2 halves seal so that the plastic didn't
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shoot out but later on it worked well, I was grateful for it shoot out but later on it worked well, I was grateful for it
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because I made tons of money in that time. Appreciate it because I made tons of money in that time. Appreciate it
35:15

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 sometime it had to have union  sometime it had to have union
35:17

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permission to keep me working, I worked from 7 o'clock till 9 o'clock the next morning permission to keep me working, I worked from 7 o'clock till 9 o'clock the next morning
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and then I went home and had a rest and got paid for that. and then I went home and had a rest and got paid for that.
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Next day on again but again that fella coming back to Next day on again but again that fella coming back to
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a German unfriendly environment, that fella he told me straight a German unfriendly environment, that fella he told me straight
35:42

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in my face, you know, we hate the Germans. But we like their skill. in my face, you know, we hate the Germans. But we like their skill.
35:50

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I can understand that.[Tony] We became friends. [Gai] Yeah that's good. You forgot cricket but I can understand that.[Tony] We became friends. [Gai] Yeah that's good. You forgot cricket but
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He started to appreciate your value in the place. [Tony] Yeah, he had a  He started to appreciate your value in the place. [Tony] Yeah, he had a 
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a bad accident later. [Gai] Once you moved to Nile St, how did you get to work? a bad accident later. [Gai] Once you moved to Nile St, how did you get to work?
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So you walked to work. [Tony] all of that. A car had no priority with us So you walked to work. [Tony] all of that. A car had no priority with us
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 Not at all. Maybe different with other people who wanted a car first  Not at all. Maybe different with other people who wanted a car first
36:21

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Furnish the house, I mean after all the kids were in the age, they were 5 and Furnish the house, I mean after all the kids were in the age, they were 5 and
36:28

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the girl was 7,8. They needed a the girl was 7,8. They needed a
36:32

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a home. I had to do quite of purchasing of furniture to make the home a home. I had to do quite of purchasing of furniture to make the home
36:39

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comfortable so that was highest priority. [Gai]So how long was it before you got a car when did comfortable so that was highest priority. [Gai]So how long was it before you got a car when did
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you finally get one? [Tony]I think the first car I got was 1962 you finally get one? [Tony]I think the first car I got was 1962
36:52

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[Gai]and did you drive that to work then? [Tony] No   kept walking. [Gai] That's probably why you kept so fit [Gai]and did you drive that to work then? [Tony] No   kept walking. [Gai] That's probably why you kept so fit
36:58

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then. [Tony] Didn't need then. [Tony] Didn't need
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a car. [Gai] And what about the changes at home. You were making fridges and so on, at what a car. [Gai] And what about the changes at home. You were making fridges and so on, at what
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point in your life did the new technology catch up point in your life did the new technology catch up
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at home. You know, a washing machine and television and all those things. [Tony]Well, that's correct because the collapse in Germany at home. You know, a washing machine and television and all those things. [Tony]Well, that's correct because the collapse in Germany
37:17

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You know that didn't give us any fridges or microwaves You know that didn't give us any fridges or microwaves
37:21

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We were very simply brought up in living, yeah, so the first fridge We were very simply brought up in living, yeah, so the first fridge
37:28

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we got was already in '54 end of '54 and it was my opinion the best fridge Email we got was already in '54 end of '54 and it was my opinion the best fridge Email
37:35

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have ever made have ever made
37:35

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It was quality, it was top material. You know. The compressors It was quality, it was top material. You know. The compressors
37:42

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we molded them out of brass you know and everything was solid. You know  we molded them out of brass you know and everything was solid. You know 
37:49

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nothing could go wrong with those old fridges. nothing could go wrong with those old fridges.
37:51

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not today, you put your thumb on it and you have to be careful not to push through. [Gai]Yeah I know the problem not today, you put your thumb on it and you have to be careful not to push through. [Gai]Yeah I know the problem
37:59

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And what impact do you think that this technology had on your leisure time and And what impact do you think that this technology had on your leisure time and
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your homelife? Well, I would say it cut my leisure time and that your homelife? Well, I would say it cut my leisure time and that
38:11

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involved me more at the plant. Seeing that they didn't have enough toolmakers involved me more at the plant. Seeing that they didn't have enough toolmakers
38:18

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to. Build enough dies to to. Build enough dies to
38:23

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 produce fridges, you know. Toolmakers normally had up to  produce fridges, you know. Toolmakers normally had up to
38:28

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12,16,20 hours overtime, you know. There was no time left to have 12,16,20 hours overtime, you know. There was no time left to have
38:35

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pleasure. But the evolution at building pleasure. But the evolution at building
38:41

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dies went so quick. It was unbelievable. dies went so quick. It was unbelievable.
38:50

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Even the machines which were bought into the plant to produce dies, you know Even the machines which were bought into the plant to produce dies, you know
38:57

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it almost was childs play to make those dies, you know.  it almost was childs play to make those dies, you know. 
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 Later on,of course, all the machines were connected to computers, you know and that was time and  Later on,of course, all the machines were connected to computers, you know and that was time and
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toolmaker, toolmaker,
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the value of a toolmakers dropped a bit, they needed the programmers, you know, the value of a toolmakers dropped a bit, they needed the programmers, you know,
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some of the toolmakers to become programmers for the Computers some of the toolmakers to become programmers for the Computers
39:24

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and that, that is  and that, that is 
39:26

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a good well paid job. Still even at the present time. Had the a good well paid job. Still even at the present time. Had the
39:34

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new automated sort of systems come in while you were there? Or is that since you retired? Yes new automated sort of systems come in while you were there? Or is that since you retired? Yes
39:41

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In the later years in May around '81,'82 In the later years in May around '81,'82
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 And when did you retire? '84  And when did you retire? '84
39:55

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And how do you feel about this new technology, this automation, that's coming in? Is it effecting And how do you feel about this new technology, this automation, that's coming in? Is it effecting
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the number of workers and so on. No, I think it will effect the number of workers and so on. No, I think it will effect
40:08

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 ??of production because now  ??of production because now
40:14

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if the man shut the time and the decision was made to bring technology in, if that manager if the man shut the time and the decision was made to bring technology in, if that manager
40:21

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If he didn't have the wisdom to be looking into the import market to put If he didn't have the wisdom to be looking into the import market to put
40:28

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Email on the market for importing fridges Email on the market for importing fridges
40:35

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 the domestic market would not show up what Email was but producing already in that time so  the domestic market would not show up what Email was but producing already in that time so
40:40

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a lot of product went overseas. You know, and that was of course. a lot of product went overseas. You know, and that was of course.
40:49

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Was Was
40:49

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a plan, you know. And so the plant has changed slightly over the years  since you've been there  a plan, you know. And so the plant has changed slightly over the years  since you've been there 
40:56

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 well, in many ways, I guess, I would though because the plant only started  well, in many ways, I guess, I would though because the plant only started
41:01

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up up
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to operate in 1946. Yeah and I came in 1952 , 7 years to operate in 1946. Yeah and I came in 1952 , 7 years
41:09

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it's grown in that time and production has increased obviously. 10 times 10 times. it's grown in that time and production has increased obviously. 10 times 10 times.
41:17

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So that's been very beneficial  for Orange. I mean So that's been very beneficial  for Orange. I mean
41:19

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a top production number of fridges was somewhere around the320 mark, yes? Today that is  a top production number of fridges was somewhere around the320 mark, yes? Today that is 
41:26

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3,000. Is that per week? Per day! 3,000. Is that per week? Per day!
41:30

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Per day! oh. Imagine Australia would pay to see the Per day! oh. Imagine Australia would pay to see the
41:34

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3000 fridges a day if there was no import market. [Gai] You'd wonder where they'd all go. [Tony]I mean export market. I had that all wrong 3000 fridges a day if there was no import market. [Gai] You'd wonder where they'd all go. [Tony]I mean export market. I had that all wrong
41:41

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all the time I always say import , Oh yeah, you mean export. Yeah of course all the time I always say import , Oh yeah, you mean export. Yeah of course
41:46

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 And how do you think Email  And how do you think Email
41:48

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is regarded by the people of Orange. Do you think people in Orange are aware is regarded by the people of Orange. Do you think people in Orange are aware
41:54

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of how well it operates? And what it does for the place. YesI think so. The people of Orange of how well it operates? And what it does for the place. YesI think so. The people of Orange
42:00

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 know the value of Email. And particularly what's it did lately is that skill set  know the value of Email. And particularly what's it did lately is that skill set
42:07

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 centre that was one of the biggest achievements  centre that was one of the biggest achievements
42:12

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a Email ever did to. To get young people, train them, even if they don't need them themselves a Email ever did to. To get young people, train them, even if they don't need them themselves
42:19

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but train them and send them wherever they want to go. Whoever had that idea to build but train them and send them wherever they want to go. Whoever had that idea to build
42:25

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that skill centre there should be congratulated. That was a big achievement for Orange. that skill centre there should be congratulated. That was a big achievement for Orange.
42:47

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 The Skill Centre  which is a great innovation, there's also  The Skill Centre  which is a great innovation, there's also
42:51

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the Credit Union that you know we mentioned earlier, I think, I'm not sure that you did but you were the Credit Union that you know we mentioned earlier, I think, I'm not sure that you did but you were
42:57

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instrumental in setting up the Credit Union I think. Yeah. I got that instrumental in setting up the Credit Union I think. Yeah. I got that
43:04

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idea in '64 I went to a Labour Party State Government  idea in '64 I went to a Labour Party State Government 
43:10

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conference and in the foyer I saw conference and in the foyer I saw
43:14

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a table from a Sydney Credit Union, a very little table. Even in Sydney Credit Unions were not a table from a Sydney Credit Union, a very little table. Even in Sydney Credit Unions were not
43:20

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that about known. They had about 3 Credit Unions that about known. They had about 3 Credit Unions
43:23

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up there. They had the ABC, the Bank Employees Credit Uion and the Commbelt up there. They had the ABC, the Bank Employees Credit Uion and the Commbelt
43:31

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Anyway I got some information from that table took that with me in the conference room and Anyway I got some information from that table took that with me in the conference room and
43:36

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instead of following the conference I studied the paperwork of the Credit Union. And I was impressed instead of following the conference I studied the paperwork of the Credit Union. And I was impressed
43:43

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and reminded me on something we knew in Germany. Now they have Credit Unions for and reminded me on something we knew in Germany. Now they have Credit Unions for
43:51

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200 yrs at least. Everywhere run by parishs 200 yrs at least. Everywhere run by parishs
43:59

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and it sounded very familiar like it was that same kind of system, you know. and it sounded very familiar like it was that same kind of system, you know.
44:06

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Give your surplus and help people who need your surplus Give your surplus and help people who need your surplus
44:11

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a good look at it and later on when we had a break I went back to the table and met  a good look at it and later on when we had a break I went back to the table and met 
44:18

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and then met at the stand a "Neil" he was then already a top man for the Credit Union and then met at the stand a "Neil" he was then already a top man for the Credit Union
44:24

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made a good made a good
44:25

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a good talk with him and I told him my intentions are and he said a good talk with him and I told him my intentions are and he said
44:32

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 you can do that in Orange, you will get all the help you can ask for from me.  you can do that in Orange, you will get all the help you can ask for from me.
44:40

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I went back to Orange. At the time I was president of the Good Neighbour Council  which I went back to Orange. At the time I was president of the Good Neighbour Council  which
44:48

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is an organization looking after migrants and I put it to them I had in mind to have is an organization looking after migrants and I put it to them I had in mind to have
44:55

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a Credit Union for the benefit of migrants, and at that time I was on the a Credit Union for the benefit of migrants, and at that time I was on the
45:02

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council alderman and I put it to the Mayor, Ron Hill if he would organize council alderman and I put it to the Mayor, Ron Hill if he would organize
45:08

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a public meeting and put that proposition to the organisations and I invite a public meeting and put that proposition to the organisations and I invite
45:13

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along the public meeting was well attended. All the Clubs like along the public meeting was well attended. All the Clubs like
45:21

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You name it they were there. And Stan Lidcombe put a public meeting and You name it they were there. And Stan Lidcombe put a public meeting and
45:28

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addressed them, they were all very impressed. But when the public meeting was finished, I had no  addressed them, they were all very impressed. But when the public meeting was finished, I had no 
45:37

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I heard nothing anymore. And that was not my intention, I didn't want to let it go but  I heard nothing anymore. And that was not my intention, I didn't want to let it go but 
45:44

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instead, so I went back to the Good Neighbour Council and told them it doesn't work that way.  instead, so I went back to the Good Neighbour Council and told them it doesn't work that way. 
45:52

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Seeing that most of the migrants worked at the plant anyway, at Email Seeing that most of the migrants worked at the plant anyway, at Email
45:55

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so we decided I start to organize it up to plant, and um so we decided I start to organize it up to plant, and um
46:03

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It was not that easy because you needed 9 people interested enough to form from that first board, you know that   It was not that easy because you needed 9 people interested enough to form from that first board, you know that  
46:10

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the Directors and that wasn't easy because. Nobody knew any anything about crediting the Directors and that wasn't easy because. Nobody knew any anything about crediting
46:17

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so for quite so for quite
46:18

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a while, every morning during my morning tea break I went to one department to the other a while, every morning during my morning tea break I went to one department to the other
46:25

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 department and preached the Gospel of the Credit Union, you know  department and preached the Gospel of the Credit Union, you know
46:32

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this idea, you know, you're needing this money and. this idea, you know, you're needing this money and.
46:39

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Didn't matter that much to me. So in the finish we called Didn't matter that much to me. So in the finish we called
46:44

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a meeting at the canteen. It happened on the 10th of December, I think that was the date a meeting at the canteen. It happened on the 10th of December, I think that was the date
46:51

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and I informed Stan again, so he was there again and I informed Stan again, so he was there again
46:59

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and from that meeting we managed to form that Credit Union. We called it, ah and from that meeting we managed to form that Credit Union. We called it, ah
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when was that? December '64 we called it the Orange when was that? December '64 we called it the Orange
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So at that time it was only Email employees. Yes but I had the Management's blessing. You know I went and had a good So at that time it was only Email employees. Yes but I had the Management's blessing. You know I went and had a good
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talk with the Manager of the plant and he was in favour of it, you know. And he helped us   talk with the Manager of the plant and he was in favour of it, you know. And he helped us  
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in any way he could after the formation. He gave a bit of a corner were we could have in any way he could after the formation. He gave a bit of a corner were we could have
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a little office but all the work had to be done by  a little office but all the work had to be done by 
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people, you know . You know writing receipts, writing letters you know, and you name it, we all had to do it  people, you know . You know writing receipts, writing letters you know, and you name it, we all had to do it 
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and um, the first year 264, yeah and um, the first year 264, yeah
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and the 2nd year we doubled it. and the 2nd year we doubled it.
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And that's grown into something big and become very much part of Orange now. We have just celebrated the  And that's grown into something big and become very much part of Orange now. We have just celebrated the 
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$50,000000.00 asset. That's now grown already to 53. So you must feel quite proud of that achievement. $50,000000.00 asset. That's now grown already to 53. So you must feel quite proud of that achievement.
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Oh yes, that's right. Where you involved in the Oh yes, that's right. Where you involved in the
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Yes. Mr Halbow Yes. Mr Halbow
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  the delegates he negotiated with the management. Again, thanks to   the delegates he negotiated with the management. Again, thanks to
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 ???? for agreeing in the finish with it, we had Superannuation  ???? for agreeing in the finish with it, we had Superannuation
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for the Staff, which worked very well and ah for the Staff, which worked very well and ah
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that ties, you got the Golden Handshake of say somewhere around 80-100,000 or more um, from the that ties, you got the Golden Handshake of say somewhere around 80-100,000 or more um, from the
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Superannuation, so we talked with Management to establish such Superannuation, so we talked with Management to establish such
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a scheme, for the blue collar workers, yes, and finally agreed a scheme, for the blue collar workers, yes, and finally agreed
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started in1978, all blue collar workers could be on that Superannuation started in1978, all blue collar workers could be on that Superannuation
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Scheme.  And they did. They all paid to the maximum, the company did not want to increase the Scheme.  And they did. They all paid to the maximum, the company did not want to increase the
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maximum because that was one of the best Superannuation Schemes at that  maximum because that was one of the best Superannuation Schemes at that 
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 time where every dollar you had paid in, the company would pay you  3.72, right?   time where every dollar you had paid in, the company would pay you  3.72, right? 
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 and there was not nothing like that anywhere in New South Wales   and there was not nothing like that anywhere in New South Wales 
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you would know about. And the maximum for the staff was 5 percent of their wage but they left us some you would know about. And the maximum for the staff was 5 percent of their wage but they left us some
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 to three, increase it then later to three And that was a  to three, increase it then later to three And that was a
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a bit of ah, a bit of a handicap. Because we could not ensure a bit of ah, a bit of a handicap. Because we could not ensure
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the same level and um,it was the same level and um,it was
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ah, very great because in '84 when I retired, it bought me $11,000, not ah, very great because in '84 when I retired, it bought me $11,000, not
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people who work there now. And pay 20,30 years into that, you know, and er people who work there now. And pay 20,30 years into that, you know, and er
50:15

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it was that anybody who would leave,  say after 5 years, he would get his money it was that anybody who would leave,  say after 5 years, he would get his money
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back but he hasn't got the benefit of the Superannuation back but he hasn't got the benefit of the Superannuation
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I think it is working very well, and the Federal government Superannuation Contributions, you know I think it is working very well, and the Federal government Superannuation Contributions, you know
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they have they have
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a good system there. And also at the same time they intoduced a, you know, what do you call it? a good system there. And also at the same time they intoduced a, you know, what do you call it?
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You call it-you're not wanted anymore, ah, redundancy. Redundancy agreement You call it-you're not wanted anymore, ah, redundancy. Redundancy agreement
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It was not long ago at a function at the plant, he said yes and what It was not long ago at a function at the plant, he said yes and what
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was a great was a great
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 system but it never had to be implemented. But the workforce had the  system but it never had to be implemented. But the workforce had the
51:05

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Security. That's right, so had the feeling of security. It was one of the best in NSW Security. That's right, so had the feeling of security. It was one of the best in NSW
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 I had trouble with my Union to get the doors because it was too good  I had trouble with my Union to get the doors because it was too good
51:17

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Isn't it Isn't it
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 and you were involved in the development of the Benevolent Fund and the  and you were involved in the development of the Benevolent Fund and the
51:22

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I think, did you call it the Benevolent Fund? what did you call that. The Funeral? I think, did you call it the Benevolent Fund? what did you call that. The Funeral?
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the one that helps people in the time of need.  That sort of thing and the one that helps people in the time of need.  That sort of thing and
51:36

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sickness and so on. Ah, no,no sickness and so on. Ah, no,no
51:38

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a not not not that was Tommy ? and that was already running. There are a not not not that was Tommy ? and that was already running. There are
51:45

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a couple of other groups operating there now that help people in the community. a couple of other groups operating there now that help people in the community.
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I know they have functions at Christmas time and so on to help people Oh I think you probably I know they have functions at Christmas time and so on to help people Oh I think you probably
51:57

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mixing it up with the pensioners dinner. Oh right Yeah, pensioners dinner, yeah. I was mixing it up with the pensioners dinner. Oh right Yeah, pensioners dinner, yeah. I was
52:03

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involved then to help and when the last one who organized it, that was Bill Denman, when he retired  involved then to help and when the last one who organized it, that was Bill Denman, when he retired 
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 I took that charge and organized it in the years until I retired   I took that charge and organized it in the years until I retired 
52:16

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but unfortunately we organized it too well to a number which we couldn't have.  but unfortunately we organized it too well to a number which we couldn't have. 
52:23

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When I kicked it off and they had about 380 When I kicked it off and they had about 380
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 -400 maximum and we finished up we had to go in the side holes  -400 maximum and we finished up we had to go in the side holes
52:35

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  We had close to 900, you know. 870. The company was very supportive   We had close to 900, you know. 870. The company was very supportive
52:42

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of that ah, System too any shortfalls which did not take place in my time of that ah, System too any shortfalls which did not take place in my time
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I had I had
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but shortfalls company would cover that ,you know but shortfalls company would cover that ,you know
52:57

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Did Email sponsor any sporting events at all? Ah Yes. Did Email sponsor any sporting events at all? Ah Yes.
53:05

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They're involved in that latest thing,  I think. The MBF Dash or something They're involved in that latest thing,  I think. The MBF Dash or something
53:10

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that's a medical, like that's to encourage people to stay fit but I think that's that's a medical, like that's to encourage people to stay fit but I think that's
53:14

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a bit different. But I was after I left. But I wasn't sure whether they were involved in any a bit different. But I was after I left. But I wasn't sure whether they were involved in any
53:20

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sporting events around sporting events around
53:22

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What [?] the left behind, you know to What [?] the left behind, you know to
53:29

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??? it's soccer, we formed the Email Soccer Club ??? it's soccer, we formed the Email Soccer Club
53:36

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beginning. One of the strongest created of that was habit beginning. One of the strongest created of that was habit
53:43

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happened shows that much really, um. But the team went well, at that time they had only 2 happened shows that much really, um. But the team went well, at that time they had only 2
53:50

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One was Bloomfield Hospital and then Bathurst had teams and Dubbo had teams so we had a little bit of One was Bloomfield Hospital and then Bathurst had teams and Dubbo had teams so we had a little bit of
53:57

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competition, you know that was the beginning of soccer. So you feel the migrant workers  competition, you know that was the beginning of soccer. So you feel the migrant workers 
54:04

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where contributed to the growth of soccer in the area. Oh I would say that, oh yes. As they did in other areas where contributed to the growth of soccer in the area. Oh I would say that, oh yes. As they did in other areas
54:09

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and other places. Yes, particularly really strong support from Bloomfield hospital made it and other places. Yes, particularly really strong support from Bloomfield hospital made it
54:15

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the was a lot of maintenance work in the Bloomfield hospital and he'd be the first one who gave us a the was a lot of maintenance work in the Bloomfield hospital and he'd be the first one who gave us a
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a ground to play in the Bloomfield Hospital area there and um, later on    a ground to play in the Bloomfield Hospital area there and um, later on   
54:27

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the council reluctantly gave us a little  the council reluctantly gave us a little 
54:29

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a ground in Matthews Avenue to play soccer but ah a ground in Matthews Avenue to play soccer but ah
54:37

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nobody helped any other sport, but soccer if I wasn't on Council  nobody helped any other sport, but soccer if I wasn't on Council 
54:42

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to push it a bit, you know, they never would have done it. So I was to push it a bit, you know, they never would have done it. So I was
54:46

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a good thing you were on the Council. Ha ha ha What effects do you think Email has had on the a good thing you were on the Council. Ha ha ha What effects do you think Email has had on the
54:50

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city of Orange and has it, do you think, why do you think Email first came to Orange? city of Orange and has it, do you think, why do you think Email first came to Orange?
54:55

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nearly 50 years ago. Well the factory became nearly 50 years ago. Well the factory became
54:59

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available, it was a small arms factory, you know, and it was a proposition    available, it was a small arms factory, you know, and it was a proposition   
55:06

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Email Email
55:06

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Was so attractive they couldn't say no to take over the factory. It was only a lease he bought it Was so attractive they couldn't say no to take over the factory. It was only a lease he bought it
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much later, you know. But they had so much much later, you know. But they had so much
55:15

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concessions. ?The State Government, electricity, you know. It was  concessions. ?The State Government, electricity, you know. It was 
55:22

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very worthwhile for the company to do that.  What do you think Orange would have been like very worthwhile for the company to do that.  What do you think Orange would have been like
55:26

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if Email had never come here? I would say like if Email had never come here? I would say like
55:30

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 Wellington. Like Wellington? Yeah, so it wouldn't have grown. Well    Wellington. Like Wellington? Yeah, so it wouldn't have grown. Well  
55:37

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later on when I got involved I realized there was later on when I got involved I realized there was
55:41

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a strong power force in Orange which topped the developement of a strong power force in Orange which topped the developement of
55:48

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Orange. One instance I will name, the construction of the new Orange. One instance I will name, the construction of the new
55:55

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sale yard near sale yard near
55:56

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a meatwork. At that time the state government abolished compulsory a meatwork. At that time the state government abolished compulsory
56:03

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voting for local government. And stock and station agents voting for local government. And stock and station agents
56:10

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organized and, with a vote of 22% it kicked the whole council out organized and, with a vote of 22% it kicked the whole council out
56:17

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and got all their people in. The people didn't bother to vote, including the Mayor. and got all their people in. The people didn't bother to vote, including the Mayor.
56:24

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They all got voted out on that election. And that was the group which wanted to They all got voted out on that election. And that was the group which wanted to
56:31

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stop the relocation of the sale yard. Now imagine the Council had already spent  stop the relocation of the sale yard. Now imagine the Council had already spent 
56:38

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a lot of money on that new sale yard,right. The Council at that time had already organized  a lot of money on that new sale yard,right. The Council at that time had already organized 
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big industry to locate on the side of the sale yard. That company was ?Chrysler big industry to locate on the side of the sale yard. That company was ?Chrysler
56:52

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but Chrysler stipulated it needed that site at but Chrysler stipulated it needed that site at
56:56

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a particular time, yeah. Of course the change of the Council a particular time, yeah. Of course the change of the Council
57:05

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created created
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a situation that they simply put a padlock on that on the new site and the mayor, Thomas a situation that they simply put a padlock on that on the new site and the mayor, Thomas
57:14

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And the company which built And the company which built
57:15

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the saleyard , breach of contract cost Orange city 60 er   the saleyard , breach of contract cost Orange city 60 er  
57:22

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$96,000  $96,000 
57:23

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penalty to that company. What did Chrysler, what was their....  Cars  penalty to that company. What did Chrysler, what was their....  Cars 
57:30

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Chrysler cars. Car production.  And to say it was suitable to them. Chrysler cars. Car production.  And to say it was suitable to them.
57:37

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They'd already inspected the site. It just what they wanted it was close to the railway  They'd already inspected the site. It just what they wanted it was close to the railway 
57:43

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there everything was perfect for them. And it would have been a big thing for Orange  there everything was perfect for them. And it would have been a big thing for Orange 
57:48

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Well even if Chrysler got Well even if Chrysler got
57:52

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applied or what the factory would have been there. And so something else would have applied or what the factory would have been there. And so something else would have
57:58

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have gone in, you know. So that was the way Email came in. Artifically   there were forces in have gone in, you know. So that was the way Email came in. Artifically   there were forces in
58:05

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this town who stopped the development. Hmm You know, they didn't want to grow. this town who stopped the development. Hmm You know, they didn't want to grow.
58:12

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and so that's a and so that's a
58:14

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a very strong memory is there anything else that you remember strongly about er your a very strong memory is there anything else that you remember strongly about er your
58:18

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memories of Email that would contribute to this. memories of Email that would contribute to this.
58:25

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Well, again we have to go to the Trade union movement which Well, again we have to go to the Trade union movement which
58:33

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and in my book my expertise, no, in the Trade union movement it is  and in my book my expertise, no, in the Trade union movement it is 
58:38

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unique. We had two unique. We had two
58:41

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strong unions. One was ASE, Australian Society of Engineers and we had to  strong unions. One was ASE, Australian Society of Engineers and we had to 
58:46

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????The ASE took to look after the orphaned children ????The ASE took to look after the orphaned children
58:52

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Its not well known, or probably the older people would remember that. They raised Its not well known, or probably the older people would remember that. They raised
58:59

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money to give to ? Patrick and BellaVista Every year a big money to give to ? Patrick and BellaVista Every year a big
59:05

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cheque, right. And I remember Craig  Patrick when it was a cheque, right. And I remember Craig  Patrick when it was a
59:13

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And my union looked after the old people, you know. That where old things And my union looked after the old people, you know. That where old things
59:21

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now the other side of the Trade union movement. Which often people are not aware of. No   now the other side of the Trade union movement. Which often people are not aware of. No  
59:30

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You know, strikes, troublemakers, militants and all that, you know and even with the formation You know, strikes, troublemakers, militants and all that, you know and even with the formation
59:37

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of the Credit Union I had the problem with it that it was the Union . In 1964  of the Credit Union I had the problem with it that it was the Union . In 1964 
59:43

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a lot of people came Yep, that word has to go. Yeah, so they didn't  a lot of people came Yep, that word has to go. Yeah, so they didn't 
59:49

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associate Credit Union with money they associated that with militant Unionists.Union, Union, Union. Yeah, interesting associate Credit Union with money they associated that with militant Unionists.Union, Union, Union. Yeah, interesting
59:56

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that's interesting experience I hadn't thought of that. Well, I think that's about.  that's interesting experience I hadn't thought of that. Well, I think that's about. 
1:00:02

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We've covered all the basic questions that we wanted answered ah, so it's been very  We've covered all the basic questions that we wanted answered ah, so it's been very 
1:00:07

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worthwhile talking to you, I've learnt  worthwhile talking to you, I've learnt 
1:00:09

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a lot from this experience and obviously your memories are going to be very a lot from this experience and obviously your memories are going to be very
1:00:13

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important for the history of Email and for a resource in Orange. I think it's going to be important for the history of Email and for a resource in Orange. I think it's going to be
1:00:19

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interesting that people can come back and listen to this in many years time and they interesting that people can come back and listen to this in many years time and they
1:00:24

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will know a lot more about Orange and the history of will know a lot more about Orange and the history of
1:00:26

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Email which I think is very worthwhile. Email which I think is very worthwhile.