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0:02

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This is Marilyn Bull interviewing Harry Paton for the Email Oral History Project. It's the 25th of the eleventh '95. This is Marilyn Bull interviewing Harry Paton for the Email Oral History Project. It's the 25th of the eleventh '95.
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Hello Mr Paton, I'm wondering if we could begin by um talking a little bit about  Hello Mr Paton, I'm wondering if we could begin by um talking a little bit about 
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what your life was like before you worked at Email. what your life was like before you worked at Email.
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I was born at a little place called Lake Cargelligo. I don't know if you've every heard of that before or not but, I was born at a little place called Lake Cargelligo. I don't know if you've every heard of that before or not but,
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it's-it's right out in the West and uh- we-we were virtually worked on the land, but predominantly  it's-it's right out in the West and uh- we-we were virtually worked on the land, but predominantly 
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after I left school, my father was on the land... worked on the land, and after after I left school, my father was on the land... worked on the land, and after
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after the war years, um our older brothers had been in the army, they couldn't settle down on the land   after the war years, um our older brothers had been in the army, they couldn't settle down on the land  
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and we had some relations in Orange and they rode up and told us that there's a new factory and we had some relations in Orange and they rode up and told us that there's a new factory
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starting up down here, why don't you come down and try it. And so we came down and here we are starting up down here, why don't you come down and try it. And so we came down and here we are
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still here today. [Marilyn] And you were about how old at that time? [Harry] I was about still here today. [Marilyn] And you were about how old at that time? [Harry] I was about
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nearly 19, I was 18 and just a nearly 19, I was 18 and just a
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about turned 19. It was about 1946, being turning 19 about turned 19. It was about 1946, being turning 19
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[Marilyn] And you got married a little after that? [Harry] Oh sometime after that, yeah 1949 [Marilyn] And you got married a little after that? [Harry] Oh sometime after that, yeah 1949
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[Marilyn] So when you started with [Marilyn] So when you started with
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Email, you were in the paint shop, is that right? [Harry] Yes ... in Email, you were in the paint shop, is that right? [Harry] Yes ... in
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1947 when I first started there yes as a  1947 when I first started there yes as a 
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a junior, working in their first paint shop which was a which was a junior, working in their first paint shop which was a which was
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a very small paint shop in those days... it was only ... For example, the curing oven a very small paint shop in those days... it was only ... For example, the curing oven
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only held 8 washing machines, because they only made washing machines in those days only held 8 washing machines, because they only made washing machines in those days
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days, there was no such thing as fridges, but they were talked days, there was no such thing as fridges, but they were talked
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about in ah late 1947, '48 ... that that they would be going to about in ah late 1947, '48 ... that that they would be going to
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make fridges ... of course everyone got  make fridges ... of course everyone got 
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a bit excited about that because not long after that they started making a bit excited about that because not long after that they started making
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a, building a new paint shop. And ah 'cos I used to wander down there everyday and have a look at it a, building a new paint shop. And ah 'cos I used to wander down there everyday and have a look at it
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this new paint shop being built. [Marilyn] And when you first started, do you recall what this new paint shop being built. [Marilyn] And when you first started, do you recall what
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a typical day was like for you? [Harry] Well... [Marilyn] Might be testing the memory a bit [laugh] a typical day was like for you? [Harry] Well... [Marilyn] Might be testing the memory a bit [laugh]
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[Harry] No no it was it was ... you know... you had to be ah... the first, the first [Harry] No no it was it was ... you know... you had to be ah... the first, the first
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foreman on the, on the ... or superintendent or foreman, I don't know what his title was foreman on the, on the ... or superintendent or foreman, I don't know what his title was
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but he was Mr Matthews, he was the man that interviewed me 'cos coming from but he was Mr Matthews, he was the man that interviewed me 'cos coming from
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the bush you know I was a bit laid back I suppose, a bit like the bush you know I was a bit laid back I suppose, a bit like
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a "bushie" and ah he was a very hard taskmaster. And I was ... one  a "bushie" and ah he was a very hard taskmaster. And I was ... one 
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morning I, I didn't know the rules too well. I was sitting down before the ... there was  morning I, I didn't know the rules too well. I was sitting down before the ... there was 
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a certain time for morning tea. And I was sitting down having a having a sandwich a certain time for morning tea. And I was sitting down having a having a sandwich
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of course he had come in and rouse me up because what was I doing sittin' down having morning tea  of course he had come in and rouse me up because what was I doing sittin' down having morning tea 
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then? 'Cos there's  then? 'Cos there's 
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a certain time you gotta have morning tea. So, you know, it showed me that a certain time you gotta have morning tea. So, you know, it showed me that
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there's rules there and you had to stick to 'em. It's not like being in the bush you can anytime there's rules there and you had to stick to 'em. It's not like being in the bush you can anytime
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you could sit down and have  you could sit down and have 
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your cup of tea or whatever. But from then on, he was ah ... become your cup of tea or whatever. But from then on, he was ah ... become
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a good sort of ah ... looked after me and not long after that he wanted to make me a good sort of ah ... looked after me and not long after that he wanted to make me
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in charge hand of the spray painters. [Marilyn] And did you get that position? ... [Harry] The union said no! because I wasn't in charge hand of the spray painters. [Marilyn] And did you get that position? ... [Harry] The union said no! because I wasn't
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21 and ah I had to work there as a spray painter which was good 21 and ah I had to work there as a spray painter which was good
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I learnt to be a spray painter and which would help me later on in years as time went on. I learnt to be a spray painter and which would help me later on in years as time went on.
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And ah then later on when we when we moved down to  And ah then later on when we when we moved down to 
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the new paint shop, he made me charge hand because time had gone on a bit  the new paint shop, he made me charge hand because time had gone on a bit 
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even though I was still only 20, not quite 21 ... but the unions even though I was still only 20, not quite 21 ... but the unions
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agreed that it was OK... you know so ... I started off there as a, as a, as the charge hand of the  agreed that it was OK... you know so ... I started off there as a, as a, as the charge hand of the 
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the new paint shop. [Marilyn] Was it an essential to be the new paint shop. [Marilyn] Was it an essential to be
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a member of the union when you started, when you signed on? [Harry] Ah, no not    a member of the union when you started, when you signed on? [Harry] Ah, no not   
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really because in the early days it wasn't quite as bad as it got later on when  really because in the early days it wasn't quite as bad as it got later on when 
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the factory got more people there 'cos recently the big, the main building that was the factory got more people there 'cos recently the big, the main building that was
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there where the Munitions works were ... was  there where the Munitions works were ... was 
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only got half used because it was only making only a small amount of washing only got half used because it was only making only a small amount of washing
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machines and nothing else was there. It was you know it was a vastly different setup to machines and nothing else was there. It was you know it was a vastly different setup to
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what it was in later years in the 1980s and 90s. [Marilyn] And about   what it was in later years in the 1980s and 90s. [Marilyn] And about  
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how many people would have been working in the paint shop when you first went there? [Harry] Oh there was how many people would have been working in the paint shop when you first went there? [Harry] Oh there was
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only about 10 there ... 8 or  only about 10 there ... 8 or 
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10 there, that's all there was in the first paint shop. [Marilyn] And were they all fairly young men? [Harry] Um 10 there, that's all there was in the first paint shop. [Marilyn] And were they all fairly young men? [Harry] Um
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mixture of men. Most of them were reasonably young. Mixture, you know some of the people have mixture of men. Most of them were reasonably young. Mixture, you know some of the people have
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been been
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in the Army were a fair bit older than me. They worked there. Some blokes... mixture of people. Some had been in the  in the Army were a fair bit older than me. They worked there. Some blokes... mixture of people. Some had been in the 
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Air Force and you know all sorts of things. Interesting people to work with  Air Force and you know all sorts of things. Interesting people to work with 
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[Marilyn] Did you do any shift work in those days? [Harry] No, no it was all all just one shift because you [Marilyn] Did you do any shift work in those days? [Harry] No, no it was all all just one shift because you
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know production didn't warrant any ah second shift because of the way know production didn't warrant any ah second shift because of the way
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things were. When we went into the new paint shop, they happened to get things were. When we went into the new paint shop, they happened to get
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a new superintendent there and his name was Reese Nichols. Ex Army Captain. Just a new superintendent there and his name was Reese Nichols. Ex Army Captain. Just
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imagine what it would be imagine what it would be
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like you know really ... [Marilyn] Keep you all in line? [Harry] Oh geez... A really regimental bloke ... he was a nice bloke wasn't he? like you know really ... [Marilyn] Keep you all in line? [Harry] Oh geez... A really regimental bloke ... he was a nice bloke wasn't he?
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My wife met him too, he'd come around to our place. Nice bloke.  My wife met him too, he'd come around to our place. Nice bloke. 
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He came around to our place and the wife met him. He was a nice bloke. But ah, I'll never forget the first ah, the first  He came around to our place and the wife met him. He was a nice bloke. But ah, I'll never forget the first ah, the first 
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fridges that we made, the first ones on the line, he  fridges that we made, the first ones on the line, he 
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was a left handed sprayer or man, and I'm was, I'm left handed and he said  was a left handed sprayer or man, and I'm was, I'm left handed and he said 
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we'll make, we we'll make, we
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will make a bit of history here. The first fridge that was hung on the, cause on the new system, everything was manually will make a bit of history here. The first fridge that was hung on the, cause on the new system, everything was manually
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moved in the other old little shop, first shop, and in the new system there was a conveyer line went straight  moved in the other old little shop, first shop, and in the new system there was a conveyer line went straight 
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through the booths, through the oven and out, and through the curing ovens and out, so we had all this new  through the booths, through the oven and out, and through the curing ovens and out, so we had all this new 
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system we said, he said to me well, when we hang the first fridge on, I'll stripe system we said, he said to me well, when we hang the first fridge on, I'll stripe
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it down the back with the gun, and you finish painting it, and so we made it  it down the back with the gun, and you finish painting it, and so we made it 
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a bit of history at Email, that we were the first two to ah paint the first fridge with you know a bit of history at Email, that we were the first two to ah paint the first fridge with you know
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which we were, we thought it was a good thing then. You know, I've probably related a lot of times.  which we were, we thought it was a good thing then. You know, I've probably related a lot of times. 
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since then. [Marilyn] That's something to remember. [Harry] Something to remember, yes that's what it was  since then. [Marilyn] That's something to remember. [Harry] Something to remember, yes that's what it was 
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[Marilyn] So in that first period of time when you worked at Email, just before it closed down for [Marilyn] So in that first period of time when you worked at Email, just before it closed down for
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a while and 1949, was the work hard? Was it intense?  a while and 1949, was the work hard? Was it intense? 
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[Harry] Oh yes yes, you had to, you had to do your, you know because  [Harry] Oh yes yes, you had to, you had to do your, you know because 
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there was a lot of menial work. Not like later years when everything when technology there was a lot of menial work. Not like later years when everything when technology
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improved and, you know with all sorts of automatic things and that around there was  improved and, you know with all sorts of automatic things and that around there was 
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there was none of that, and everything was done manually, you know like for example there was none of that, and everything was done manually, you know like for example
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mixing the paint, we'd got it in four litre cans, and we'd had to mix it up ourselves and put it in mixing the paint, we'd got it in four litre cans, and we'd had to mix it up ourselves and put it in
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pressure pots, and use, what they call air guns, which you know  pressure pots, and use, what they call air guns, which you know 
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you have to have a fair bit of skill to part a fridge or whatever you was doing, otherwise  you have to have a fair bit of skill to part a fridge or whatever you was doing, otherwise 
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you know it you know it
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they'd be all reworks and nothing would be any good, nothing going out the door to, for assemble they'd be all reworks and nothing would be any good, nothing going out the door to, for assemble
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and all the parts, mostly in those days were were painted  and all the parts, mostly in those days were were painted 
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even down to the smallest parts on the fridge, where today, today all even down to the smallest parts on the fridge, where today, today all
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or later years, well it was plastics, you know and everything was, a lot of stuff  or later years, well it was plastics, you know and everything was, a lot of stuff 
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was bought in, already made. It was an interesting time to work. [Marilyn] And and was  was bought in, already made. It was an interesting time to work. [Marilyn] And and was 
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it basically with the spray guns? Nothing was for example dipped? [Harry] Ah yes it basically with the spray guns? Nothing was for example dipped? [Harry] Ah yes
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some some of the stuff, late- in later years  some some of the stuff, late- in later years 
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was dipped, flood coated, some of the like internal parts  was dipped, flood coated, some of the like internal parts 
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and it would have a good finish coat on it t and that. They were just, they were actually pulled and it would have a good finish coat on it t and that. They were just, they were actually pulled
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flow coating, if, a heap of heap of jets and a circular material that thinned flow coating, if, a heap of heap of jets and a circular material that thinned
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into a certain viscosity and we'd spray it on them  into a certain viscosity and we'd spray it on them 
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automatically, you know and that's how a like small parts were done that way. [Marilyn] And  automatically, you know and that's how a like small parts were done that way. [Marilyn] And 
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was the pay good in those days in comparison to the cost of living? [Harry] In comparison was the pay good in those days in comparison to the cost of living? [Harry] In comparison
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to things, you know as time went on, you know it was only  to things, you know as time went on, you know it was only 
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about five pound a week or something like that. It was equivalent to things today   about five pound a week or something like that. It was equivalent to things today  
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you know you could buy, things weren't as dear, equivalent to your wages you know you could buy, things weren't as dear, equivalent to your wages
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[Marilyn] And and and so basically it was [Marilyn] And and and so basically it was
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a pretty reasonable job for a young lad to get in those days? [Harry] Oh yes yeah, I I I liked it even a pretty reasonable job for a young lad to get in those days? [Harry] Oh yes yeah, I I I liked it even
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though I'd never had anything to do  though I'd never had anything to do 
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with spray painting or painting before and I really enjoyed it. It was really good. [Marilyn] And  with spray painting or painting before and I really enjoyed it. It was really good. [Marilyn] And 
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how did you get work in those days and where were you living in Orange in that first how did you get work in those days and where were you living in Orange in that first
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period of time? [Harry] Ah well well when we first came down, of course we we didn't know where to go we  period of time? [Harry] Ah well well when we first came down, of course we we didn't know where to go we 
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stopped at stopped at
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a hotel over the first few nights, because there's no new motels or anything like that and  a hotel over the first few nights, because there's no new motels or anything like that and 
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then, ah as soon as our cousins found out we were in town they made us come out and then, ah as soon as our cousins found out we were in town they made us come out and
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live with them, so we stopped there for some time. Until later years when Dawn and I we we got married  live with them, so we stopped there for some time. Until later years when Dawn and I we we got married 
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and we had a bit and we had a bit
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of a struggle for a while finding somewhere to live, you know, because we never  of a struggle for a while finding somewhere to live, you know, because we never 
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had all that much money had all that much money
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and that sort of thing [Marilyn] And did you use a bike to get to work [Harry] Oh yes gee it was like the, it was like it the and that sort of thing [Marilyn] And did you use a bike to get to work [Harry] Oh yes gee it was like the, it was like it the
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coming down Edward Street it was like the charge of the bike      brigade. There were that many bikes [Marilyn] And ah yeah coming down Edward Street it was like the charge of the bike      brigade. There were that many bikes [Marilyn] And ah yeah
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there must have been a lot when it was due to start [Harry] Yeah no one, but not many had a car, only the management staff  there must have been a lot when it was due to start [Harry] Yeah no one, but not many had a car, only the management staff 
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or some of the top executives , they only had cars there was no-one  or some of the top executives , they only had cars there was no-one 
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no-one had a car then, in the forties, fifties and right up to the sixties, before a few cars no-one had a car then, in the forties, fifties and right up to the sixties, before a few cars
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got around. There was that many bikes, they had got around. There was that many bikes, they had
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a special sheds for people to hang their bikes up in. That's how many bikes there were, with ah a special sheds for people to hang their bikes up in. That's how many bikes there were, with ah
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proper hooks to hang your bike up. Because the order of the day don't leave your pump there  proper hooks to hang your bike up. Because the order of the day don't leave your pump there 
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you take your bike pump with you, otherwise it wasn't there when you came back (laughs)  you take your bike pump with you, otherwise it wasn't there when you came back (laughs) 
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[Marilyn] You must have  [Marilyn] You must have 
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been tired by the time you got home with a heavy day's manual work,[Harry] Yeah oh well I [Marilyn] and then riding  been tired by the time you got home with a heavy day's manual work,[Harry] Yeah oh well I [Marilyn] and then riding 
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home [Harry] Yeah, well I think, I think it, you know home [Harry] Yeah, well I think, I think it, you know
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that's exercise, it didn't hurt you, because being young you don't really worry that's exercise, it didn't hurt you, because being young you don't really worry
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about things like that. [Marilyn] What, what um, what sort of hours did you keep? Were there  about things like that. [Marilyn] What, what um, what sort of hours did you keep? Were there 
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was it a five day week eight hours? or longer than that or? [Harry] No no it was a five day week eight hours was it a five day week eight hours? or longer than that or? [Harry] No no it was a five day week eight hours
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and quite often you would have to go in and tinker around and quite often you would have to go in and tinker around
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in the in the paint shop you know and clean all the equipment and that sort of thing you know and, some times in the in the paint shop you know and clean all the equipment and that sort of thing you know and, some times
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you could do Saturday morning, four hours and do that sort of thing.  you could do Saturday morning, four hours and do that sort of thing. 
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There was a lot of ah, in the early days There was a lot of ah, in the early days
10:30

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there was a lot of, lot of um migrants, you know with the labour, people labour, labour people  there was a lot of, lot of um migrants, you know with the labour, people labour, labour people 
10:37

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and a lot of lived them lived in what they called little igloos, s-south of the  and a lot of lived them lived in what they called little igloos, s-south of the 
10:41

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Email as it is now, in in  Email as it is now, in in 
10:44

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they built these little huts for them. A lot of them lived there. And ah as time went on  they built these little huts for them. A lot of them lived there. And ah as time went on 
10:50

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of course it wasn't long before they  of course it wasn't long before they 
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 were very good saving people. They were, started to build their own homes and things like that. A lot of them  were very good saving people. They were, started to build their own homes and things like that. A lot of them
10:59

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were like that. They had  were like that. They had 
11:00

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a bit of a bit of a problem with some of them because of the language barrier, but but they were a bit of a bit of a problem with some of them because of the language barrier, but but they were
11:05

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people who were quick to learn, European people and or you know Italians and so on, and they  people who were quick to learn, European people and or you know Italians and so on, and they 
11:11

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learn very quickly how tot... You'd have to demonstrate to know what to do, and  learn very quickly how tot... You'd have to demonstrate to know what to do, and 
11:16

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put someone, an Australian person with them to, with experience and  they would pick it up from there  put someone, an Australian person with them to, with experience and  they would pick it up from there 
11:22

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[Marilyn] Do you look back on those times um with enjoyment? [Harry] Oh yes it was it was quite good  [Marilyn] Do you look back on those times um with enjoyment? [Harry] Oh yes it was it was quite good 
11:29

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[Marilyn] And when you were working there, did di someone take the time to show you carefully and properly how to  [Marilyn] And when you were working there, did di someone take the time to show you carefully and properly how to 
11:35

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do things? Or were you basically expected to pick it up by watching others?  [Harry] Well ah In in in the early part do things? Or were you basically expected to pick it up by watching others?  [Harry] Well ah In in in the early part
11:40

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I think that mainly what it was. They they I think they tried to select the  I think that mainly what it was. They they I think they tried to select the 
11:45

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right people for the right jobs, so they'd ah right people for the right jobs, so they'd ah
11:49

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cause no-one around here, had enough, all that much experience for that type of work cause no-one around here, had enough, all that much experience for that type of work
11:54

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with Email being a new plant starting up but of course to get the right people  with Email being a new plant starting up but of course to get the right people 
11:59

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they soo because its repetition work, mainly you know because, you you do virtually they soo because its repetition work, mainly you know because, you you do virtually
12:06

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doing the same thing every day, almost every day. So you soon learn doing the same thing every day, almost every day. So you soon learn
12:10

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about things. [Marilyn] Nowadays the the paint shop setup is very different as you'd said about things. [Marilyn] Nowadays the the paint shop setup is very different as you'd said
12:17

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back in those days though, what were the working conditions like in terms of paint fumes and  back in those days though, what were the working conditions like in terms of paint fumes and 
12:24

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protective clothing? [Harry] Oh ah it wasn't as good then because you know they only had protective clothing? [Harry] Oh ah it wasn't as good then because you know they only had
12:28

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small booths, which were extracting the dust away, not like it was  small booths, which were extracting the dust away, not like it was 
12:32

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later, they had all the all the best equipment that they could lay their hands on  later, they had all the all the best equipment that they could lay their hands on 
12:36

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you know, probably, huge fans and that in the later days  you know, probably, huge fans and that in the later days 
12:39

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even right up till, right up till the paint shop  even right up till, right up till the paint shop 
12:43

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was closed down this year. You know, and now they've gone to one coat material which is   was closed down this year. You know, and now they've gone to one coat material which is  
12:50

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a lot cheaper for the company, because, its a fairly expensive game when you're know painting,  a lot cheaper for the company, because, its a fairly expensive game when you're know painting, 
12:57

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because I think, it's I think to.. at one stage ... in later years, not just recently  because I think, it's I think to.. at one stage ... in later years, not just recently 
13:04

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you know, it was nothing to do $25,000 in a week you know, it was nothing to do $25,000 in a week
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for paint, you know that's a lot of money isn't it!  You know, just imagine all the rest of the factory  for paint, you know that's a lot of money isn't it!  You know, just imagine all the rest of the factory 
13:10

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what... costs. [Marilyn] But back in those days did they ... make you wear glasses? what... costs. [Marilyn] But back in those days did they ... make you wear glasses?
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or dust jackets [Harry] No No No [Marilyn] or gloves or anything at all like that, [Harry] No nothing like [Marilyn] you know because of fumes?  or dust jackets [Harry] No No No [Marilyn] or gloves or anything at all like that, [Harry] No nothing like [Marilyn] you know because of fumes? 
13:22

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did the fumes affecting you? [Harry] They didn't seem to, they didn't did the fumes affecting you? [Harry] They didn't seem to, they didn't
13:23

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seem to police it like they did in later years, they got really conscious of it, of the  seem to police it like they did in later years, they got really conscious of it, of the 
13:28

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safety for people in later years, but then it it, you could  safety for people in later years, but then it it, you could 
13:31

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get a respirator, you know if you wanted to wear it you could wear it, but if you didn't, it didn't matter but get a respirator, you know if you wanted to wear it you could wear it, but if you didn't, it didn't matter but
13:35

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in later years it became, it became an offence. If  like  in later years it became, it became an offence. If  like 
13:39

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a spray painter could be fined $100 ... by the Health Department or someone  a spray painter could be fined $100 ... by the Health Department or someone 
13:45

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I don't know who it is but if he didn't wear his respirator.  And then they didn't  I don't know who it is but if he didn't wear his respirator.  And then they didn't 
13:49

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seem to care so much because being only a small sort of a people there you know  seem to care so much because being only a small sort of a people there you know 
13:56

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there weren't that many there. [Marilyn] And did you take you lunch away from the working area or go to the canteen in the there weren't that many there. [Marilyn] And did you take you lunch away from the working area or go to the canteen in the
14:02

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in those days? [Harry] Well most of use used to just dift- drift outside and go sit on the lawn  in those days? [Harry] Well most of use used to just dift- drift outside and go sit on the lawn 
14:05

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or somewhere and have your, have your meal out there. But there was no such thing as  or somewhere and have your, have your meal out there. But there was no such thing as 
14:09

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a meal room, which became law later you had to have a meal room and all that sort of thing or    a meal room, which became law later you had to have a meal room and all that sort of thing or   
14:14

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go to the Canteen. [Marilyn] Because some people have said that ah when they established the canteen go to the Canteen. [Marilyn] Because some people have said that ah when they established the canteen
14:19

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they were more or less obliged to use it um by management, [Harry] Yeah yeah [Marilyn] Particularly by  they were more or less obliged to use it um by management, [Harry] Yeah yeah [Marilyn] Particularly by 
14:26

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[Harry] Yeah well see  [Harry] Yeah well see 
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I tell you  I tell you 
14:31

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lunch  lunch 
14:38

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More more money gone in those days, and we needed every shilling  More more money gone in those days, and we needed every shilling 
14:43

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you know we, you know you wouldn't have the money to spend at the canteen. Being able to eat  you know we, you know you wouldn't have the money to spend at the canteen. Being able to eat 
14:50

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you could buy a good meal there you know for reasonably cheap, cause when I went home to  you could buy a good meal there you know for reasonably cheap, cause when I went home to 
14:55

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at nightime I had a nice meal cooked so I didn't have to worry about going over there. [Marilyn] Didn't need to  at nightime I had a nice meal cooked so I didn't have to worry about going over there. [Marilyn] Didn't need to 
14:59

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so in 1949, the factory, the whole factory closed down? [Harry] Yes yes  so in 1949, the factory, the whole factory closed down? [Harry] Yes yes 
15:06

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because of the coal strike I think  because of the coal strike I think 
15:07

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Like it went on for a long time, because we used to cut of all our boilers and then all that type of thing Like it went on for a long time, because we used to cut of all our boilers and then all that type of thing
15:12

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but they just couldn't operate  but they just couldn't operate 
15:13

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without the coal. [Marilyn] And did they just shutdown um sort of gradually? How long did they  without the coal. [Marilyn] And did they just shutdown um sort of gradually? How long did they 
15:20

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Shutdown for? Do you know anything very much about that? [Harry] Oh, well it ran into months, it ran into months Shutdown for? Do you know anything very much about that? [Harry] Oh, well it ran into months, it ran into months
15:25

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yeah quite a while, because ah sometimes in small, they did a  yeah quite a while, because ah sometimes in small, they did a 
15:30

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actually small closedowns, you know and the'd hand pick the people they wanted to keep there  actually small closedowns, you know and the'd hand pick the people they wanted to keep there 
15:36

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and maybe because they weren't quite up to standard of work or something like that  and maybe because they weren't quite up to standard of work or something like that 
15:40

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and they just let them go and then call them back if they wanted them, but um and they just let them go and then call them back if they wanted them, but um
15:46

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we went we went
15:46

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went to a place called Gunnedah, when-when-when-when I still, when we were  went to a place called Gunnedah, when-when-when-when I still, when we were 
15:50

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stood down, when I was stood down, and I worked up there and learnt a bit of shearing, learnt to   stood down, when I was stood down, and I worked up there and learnt a bit of shearing, learnt to  
15:56

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shearing and that type of thing and fencing [Marilyn] So when you were put off you really shearing and that type of thing and fencing [Marilyn] So when you were put off you really
16:01

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weren't given any idea of um [Harry] How long it would be [Marilyn] How long it might be and whether you might be weren't given any idea of um [Harry] How long it would be [Marilyn] How long it might be and whether you might be
16:06

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put back on? [Harry] Oh yes, and they said we will let you know when to come back, well it was  put back on? [Harry] Oh yes, and they said we will let you know when to come back, well it was 
16:12

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'cause we-we-we went up to Gunnedah and we were making  'cause we-we-we went up to Gunnedah and we were making 
16:16

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doin alright there, and we were doin contract work, so I just wrote, when they  doin alright there, and we were doin contract work, so I just wrote, when they 
16:20

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sent word that they wanted us to come back, we-we I said that we were doing contact  sent word that they wanted us to come back, we-we I said that we were doing contact 
16:24

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contract work and that we'd have to stop there for a while. [Marilyn] And how long did you end up doing contract work shearing? contract work and that we'd have to stop there for a while. [Marilyn] And how long did you end up doing contract work shearing?
16:30

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[Harry] Oh well it was  [Harry] Oh well it was 
16:30

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twelve months, just about twelve months. A fair while, and ah while we were up there  twelve months, just about twelve months. A fair while, and ah while we were up there 
16:35

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our first son was born... A happy occasion for doing it hard much   [Marilyn] Than you must have  our first son was born... A happy occasion for doing it hard much   [Marilyn] Than you must have 
16:42

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been a little bit worried as  been a little bit worried as 
16:44

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I guess a lot of people would have been when the management said [Harry] Yeah [Marilyn] you are being  I guess a lot of people would have been when the management said [Harry] Yeah [Marilyn] you are being 
16:48

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laid off, particularly if you are expecting [Harry] Yes [Marilyn] a baby at that stage. [Harry] And no money, yeah its laid off, particularly if you are expecting [Harry] Yes [Marilyn] a baby at that stage. [Harry] And no money, yeah its
16:53

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Oh yes we were. And we were glad to to, when er we got in touch  Oh yes we were. And we were glad to to, when er we got in touch 
16:58

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with our brother. You know. He said oh come up here, there's plenty of work up here  with our brother. You know. He said oh come up here, there's plenty of work up here 
17:02

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and we went straight up there and we went straight to work. [Marilyn] What-what did other people do Harry? Do you recall and we went straight up there and we went straight to work. [Marilyn] What-what did other people do Harry? Do you recall
17:08

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what other people did when they were laid off as well? [Harry] Oh I think some of them-some of them were pretty hard up  what other people did when they were laid off as well? [Harry] Oh I think some of them-some of them were pretty hard up 
17:13

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you know they couldn't, ah... a lot of them couldn't  you know they couldn't, ah... a lot of them couldn't 
17:17

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find work and that sort of thing. But, I think then it wasn't so hard  find work and that sort of thing. But, I think then it wasn't so hard 
17:20

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to find a job then, you could go out up on an orchard somewhere and do a bit of pruning or  to find a job then, you could go out up on an orchard somewhere and do a bit of pruning or 
17:24

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whatever you know. I'd imagine, I didn't, because I went straight away. You see we went  whatever you know. I'd imagine, I didn't, because I went straight away. You see we went 
17:29

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away, we never  away, we never 
17:30

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saw any of that ... work much, that that...  [Marilyn] Was that in the Winter, or in the Summer when  saw any of that ... work much, that that...  [Marilyn] Was that in the Winter, or in the Summer when 
17:36

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you can pick up the seasonal work in the orchards when you were laid off? Winter or... [Harry] Oh well I you can pick up the seasonal work in the orchards when you were laid off? Winter or... [Harry] Oh well I
17:41

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well you see in the winter you can get pruning, but it would have been  well you see in the winter you can get pruning, but it would have been 
17:46

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have been about the middle of they year, yes it would have been, you see our son was born  have been about the middle of they year, yes it would have been, you see our son was born 
17:52

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in ah February. Janet we went up there before you know, before they had,  before  in ah February. Janet we went up there before you know, before they had,  before 
17:57

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Christmas, so it would have been early, it would have been about halfway through '49 I suppose. [Marilyn] and were you Christmas, so it would have been early, it would have been about halfway through '49 I suppose. [Marilyn] and were you
18:04

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you were renting then? and um you just sort of gave up the place you were renting then? Or had you bought a [Harry] No we were we you were renting then? and um you just sort of gave up the place you were renting then? Or had you bought a [Harry] No we were we
18:10

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we had a, it was very hard to find anywhere, a house to rent or anything,  we had a, it was very hard to find anywhere, a house to rent or anything, 
18:15

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in those days, and we were living in rooms  in those days, and we were living in rooms 
18:18

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there was two, oh a couple that we'd we'd met, oh heard about, like and that there we'd  there was two, oh a couple that we'd we'd met, oh heard about, like and that there we'd 
18:24

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managed to get two rooms there. One or two rooms there or something, and we stayed there, we didn't come back until  managed to get two rooms there. One or two rooms there or something, and we stayed there, we didn't come back until 
18:31

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[Marilyn] Were the people that you worked with helpful um when people had problems like that? ah  [Marilyn] Were the people that you worked with helpful um when people had problems like that? ah 
18:37

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pass around information about where you might be able to get rooms to live in or um ...  pass around information about where you might be able to get rooms to live in or um ... 
18:42

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you know those types of things or [Harry] Oh Yes yes yes, well yes everyone talks  you know those types of things or [Harry] Oh Yes yes yes, well yes everyone talks 
18:46

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helps one another you know, did you do any good? oh no, no! You know, you had to try and help one another  helps one another you know, did you do any good? oh no, no! You know, you had to try and help one another 
18:51

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but you know sometimes it didn't work out and sometimes it did.  [Marilyn] It must have been a  but you know sometimes it didn't work out and sometimes it did.  [Marilyn] It must have been a 
18:55

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very worrying time for a lot of people! [Harry] Yes yes yeah, except there was no commission houses about back then or anything like that  very worrying time for a lot of people! [Harry] Yes yes yeah, except there was no commission houses about back then or anything like that 
19:03

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But later years when we, when we ah got established a bit and we ah, when we  But later years when we, when we ah got established a bit and we ah, when we 
19:10

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went out in the country  went out in the country 
19:11

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We were left Email for a little while then. It was 1950 when I came back from We were left Email for a little while then. It was 1950 when I came back from
19:15

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up the  up the 
19:15

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up there, up at Gunnedah, 1950. Then then ah, later on our second son came along up there, up at Gunnedah, 1950. Then then ah, later on our second son came along
19:23

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then-then 'cause we still wasn't doin all that good for housing, and so we then-then 'cause we still wasn't doin all that good for housing, and so we
19:27

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decided to go to the, a friend who said the  decided to go to the, a friend who said the 
19:33

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I'd get you a job out on the land, because I'd come off the land, bush - out of the bush, and  I'd get you a job out on the land, because I'd come off the land, bush - out of the bush, and 
19:37

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so we went out to  so we went out to 
19:39

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worked on a station for a while. That would have been in the 50's for a while, sometime in the middle '50's. worked on a station for a while. That would have been in the 50's for a while, sometime in the middle '50's.
19:45

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and and we stayed out there for ah probably till about '58 or '59  and and we stayed out there for ah probably till about '58 or '59 
19:53

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Our third son then, we have three sons. Our third son was came along then  Our third son then, we have three sons. Our third son was came along then 
19:60

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Email had got in touch with us again. Would we like to come back, and anyway we  Email had got in touch with us again. Would we like to come back, and anyway we 
20:06

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did come back then and our mother and father, My mother and father, n-n-not mother, father  did come back then and our mother and father, My mother and father, n-n-not mother, father 
20:13

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had bought us a place in, to live in, in Byng Street, so-so-so we came back to there had bought us a place in, to live in, in Byng Street, so-so-so we came back to there
20:19

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to be in to live there. And from then on we went to  to be in to live there. And from then on we went to 
20:21

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we stayed at Email all the time then for 33 years. [Marilyn] Did your brother come back to work at Email too? [Harry] Oh ah ah  we stayed at Email all the time then for 33 years. [Marilyn] Did your brother come back to work at Email too? [Harry] Oh ah ah 
20:27

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just a couple times but he was virtually was doing other work, he  just a couple times but he was virtually was doing other work, he 
20:32

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work and things like that you know - in the bush. [Marilyn] And you were keen to come back to Orange and get settled  work and things like that you know - in the bush. [Marilyn] And you were keen to come back to Orange and get settled 
20:38

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in the house and go - go back to work at Email? Or would you have preferred to stay [Harry] Oh no no, it was  in the house and go - go back to work at Email? Or would you have preferred to stay [Harry] Oh no no, it was 
20:43

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it was alright you know, I  it was alright you know, I 
20:45

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was still, I was happy wherever I was. You know I was quite happy on the land, and you know but because was still, I was happy wherever I was. You know I was quite happy on the land, and you know but because
20:50

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where we lived the boys would have had to go on the train to to to Dubbo to go to school and  where we lived the boys would have had to go on the train to to to Dubbo to go to school and 
20:55

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and it was too far, so they were and it was too far, so they were
20:57

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starting to get a little bit older, and we thought education would be better if we came back to  starting to get a little bit older, and we thought education would be better if we came back to 
21:02

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town, Orange, to live, .. which which we did. [Marilyn] How did Email get in contact  town, Orange, to live, .. which which we did. [Marilyn] How did Email get in contact 
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[Harry] Um ..  I think, they sent us a telegram I think didn't they?   [Harry] Um ..  I think, they sent us a telegram I think didn't they?  
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or something like that. I've just forgotten! [Marilyn]  Something like that was it? or something like that. I've just forgotten! [Marilyn]  Something like that was it?
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[Harry] I think, I think it was a telegram that they ... yes so  [Harry] I think, I think it was a telegram that they ... yes so 
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Email - Email while were in up up in the bush there. Email sent us a letter... would we like Email - Email while were in up up in the bush there. Email sent us a letter... would we like
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to come- would I like to come back and start again! And we said oh it was a good opportunity because to come- would I like to come back and start again! And we said oh it was a good opportunity because
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the boys were getting on a little bit, um and  the boys were getting on a little bit, um and 
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we'd have to get to a better school with them, rather than this going to Dubbo ah  we'd have to get to a better school with them, rather than this going to Dubbo ah 
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which is too far on the train - you know it would have been half past seven or so by the time they got back, which was too much for them which is too far on the train - you know it would have been half past seven or so by the time they got back, which was too much for them
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so as  so as 
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I said before then (coughs) excuse me, my fa-father had bought us a house for us to live in  I said before then (coughs) excuse me, my fa-father had bought us a house for us to live in 
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not our own house, it was still their house, to live in when while we ah got established, and then ah not our own house, it was still their house, to live in when while we ah got established, and then ah
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'cause Email had  'cause Email had 
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promised a house but it never come along! [Marilyn] Did they do that? Did they organise housing for their employees  promised a house but it never come along! [Marilyn] Did they do that? Did they organise housing for their employees 
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sometimes? [Harry] Yeah ah yes yes. When the-when the Housing Commission started building houses here in Orange sometimes? [Harry] Yeah ah yes yes. When the-when the Housing Commission started building houses here in Orange
22:09

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there was always one or two allocated to email, and the-and the people who there was always one or two allocated to email, and the-and the people who
22:16

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a lot of people had their names down, you know there were masses of them you know and  a lot of people had their names down, you know there were masses of them you know and 
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they ah would-would give the houses out - whether it was a draw or whatever  they ah would-would give the houses out - whether it was a draw or whatever 
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it was or anyway. We-we were never fortunate enough to get one. But eventually, eventually we it was or anyway. We-we were never fortunate enough to get one. But eventually, eventually we
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... ...
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I think Email did help us eventually. We got a house in ah Cassey Crescent, and I think Email did help us eventually. We got a house in ah Cassey Crescent, and
22:38

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and of course we lived there for a few years then then ah .. we saw a, we saw a way out  and of course we lived there for a few years then then ah .. we saw a, we saw a way out 
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of buying our own home. So-so we-we ah left Cassey Crescent after Christmas of buying our own home. So-so we-we ah left Cassey Crescent after Christmas
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Our present address is-is Coronation Drive. We've lived there for about 20 years now.  Our present address is-is Coronation Drive. We've lived there for about 20 years now. 
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[Marilyn] Were you ever involved with the um Credit Union that started up at Email? [Harry] Oh yes yes, I was one of the ones that [Marilyn] Were you ever involved with the um Credit Union that started up at Email? [Harry] Oh yes yes, I was one of the ones that
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joined up pretty early, when it started up [Marilyn] Was  joined up pretty early, when it started up [Marilyn] Was 
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that, was that a good arrangement for people in those days? [Harry] Very good, very good yes that, was that a good arrangement for people in those days? [Harry] Very good, very good yes
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I think it, I think it helped a lot of people save their money you know and, a lot I think it, I think it helped a lot of people save their money you know and, a lot
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in a lot of ways it was a good thing. [Marilyn] That was actually on the premises wasn't it? So I guess you [Harry] Yes in a lot of ways it was a good thing. [Marilyn] That was actually on the premises wasn't it? So I guess you [Harry] Yes
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[Marilyn] Came and you got your pay [Harry] Yes, it  [Marilyn] Came and you got your pay [Harry] Yes, it 
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did start off up there, and like I know they got-got a lot bigger of course now they're in Summer Street  did start off up there, and like I know they got-got a lot bigger of course now they're in Summer Street 
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absolutely, no it was a very good thing [Marilyn] So you could collect your pay and then trot down [Harry] Yes! absolutely, no it was a very good thing [Marilyn] So you could collect your pay and then trot down [Harry] Yes!
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[Marilyn] to the next office and put it-put it back in [Harry] People would, people would go straight over  [Marilyn] to the next office and put it-put it back in [Harry] People would, people would go straight over 
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and put a certain amount of money in, in the in the Credit Union. Oh yes it was droves  and put a certain amount of money in, in the in the Credit Union. Oh yes it was droves 
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of people going there. [Marilyn] That must have been good  of people going there. [Marilyn] That must have been good 
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from a family point of view, because pay packets have a tendency to disappear sometimes [Harry] Oh yes  from a family point of view, because pay packets have a tendency to disappear sometimes [Harry] Oh yes 
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when you go up the street or to the pub or something [Harry] Yes, yes, there was a burden there and the boys said when you go up the street or to the pub or something [Harry] Yes, yes, there was a burden there and the boys said
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if you took the money home it wouldn't last long - you know, it would just soon go. [Marilyn] Would there be any  if you took the money home it wouldn't last long - you know, it would just soon go. [Marilyn] Would there be any 
23:52

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other services that Email um operated that were useful for people who other services that Email um operated that were useful for people who
23:59

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[Harry] Oh well, not really, the main thing was that.   [Harry] Oh well, not really, the main thing was that.  
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The Credit Union, it was a good thing. It was good for people there 'cause The Credit Union, it was a good thing. It was good for people there 'cause
24:10

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money to return to dust bin. Don't cherish every pill people sidelining So when he money to return to dust bin. Don't cherish every pill people sidelining So when he
24:16

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So when you came back to email that second time, where you basically worked with Email  So when you came back to email that second time, where you basically worked with Email 
24:24

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Email until 1992? Email until 1992?
24:26

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was it? [Harry] '92 that's right yeah yeah yeah [Marilyn] You were back in the paint shop and this was the new [Harry] Well  was it? [Harry] '92 that's right yeah yeah yeah [Marilyn] You were back in the paint shop and this was the new [Harry] Well 
24:30

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[Marilyn] The new refurbished place was it? [Harry] When I When I ah, yes course the course the [Marilyn] The new refurbished place was it? [Harry] When I When I ah, yes course the course the
24:35

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order 1st. We started in with a matter of political entities done order 1st. We started in with a matter of political entities done
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a lot of news go to 6 or $8900.00. Take. It or been doing a lot of news go to 6 or $8900.00. Take. It or been doing
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it got burnt down of course  it got burnt down of course 
24:46

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actually the new one [Marilyn] '55, [Harry] Beg your pardon? [Marilyn] 1955 was it? [Harry] Something like that - round about then actually the new one [Marilyn] '55, [Harry] Beg your pardon? [Marilyn] 1955 was it? [Harry] Something like that - round about then
24:51

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about 1955 while I was away at that time. And ah, when I-when I came back ah  about 1955 while I was away at that time. And ah, when I-when I came back ah 
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I first went to place, with the cab-face ah  I first went to place, with the cab-face ah 
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fapplication area, where they made the fridges, made fapplication area, where they made the fridges, made
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the boxes and that, and and they said we'll just start you there for a while, until  the boxes and that, and and they said we'll just start you there for a while, until 
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we, until we get thing organised. And I was there was a little while, and ah, which was  we, until we get thing organised. And I was there was a little while, and ah, which was 
25:14

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good because I l-learnt  good because I l-learnt 
25:15

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all about how they make 'em and that sort of thing. Because when you're stuck  all about how they make 'em and that sort of thing. Because when you're stuck 
25:17

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in one place like a paint shop, you don't learn much about the rest of it, business  in one place like a paint shop, you don't learn much about the rest of it, business 
25:22

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so I was there for a while then and I went, then they took me down the paint shop. They made me charge hand  so I was there for a while then and I went, then they took me down the paint shop. They made me charge hand 
25:28

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at that stage [Marilyn] Was that better pay? [Harry] Oh yes - better pay because you got  at that stage [Marilyn] Was that better pay? [Harry] Oh yes - better pay because you got 
25:33

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so  so 
25:34

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so much money for being the charge hand, and so much money because you're a spray painter and  so much money for being the charge hand, and so much money because you're a spray painter and 
25:39

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so on, you know. [Marilyn] And what were your duties? How was it different being the charge hand to  so on, you know. [Marilyn] And what were your duties? How was it different being the charge hand to 
25:44

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what you had done before when you worked in the paint shop? [Harry] Oh, well well I didn't, at that stage one what you had done before when you worked in the paint shop? [Harry] Oh, well well I didn't, at that stage one
25:51

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I didn't come back then, I didn't have to spray paint, I just organised the people.  I didn't come back then, I didn't have to spray paint, I just organised the people. 
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like what to do, 'cause there was a superintendent there, who I worked under and ah he he like what to do, 'cause there was a superintendent there, who I worked under and ah he he
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would virtually do the paperwork and he'd say you look after the people you know so I'd just would virtually do the paperwork and he'd say you look after the people you know so I'd just
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have to organise all the jobs and see that they're all done have to organise all the jobs and see that they're all done
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properly you know and all that sort of thing is that you. [Marilyn] Was that difficult? [Harry] Oh well  properly you know and all that sort of thing is that you. [Marilyn] Was that difficult? [Harry] Oh well 
26:14

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when you've got, at one stage there was about eighty people there before technology  when you've got, at one stage there was about eighty people there before technology 
26:18

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got better, and the the labor force came down down down and you know  got better, and the the labor force came down down down and you know 
26:23

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there was a lot of people to go around! I think the biggest amount they had was around eighty, in the paint shop  there was a lot of people to go around! I think the biggest amount they had was around eighty, in the paint shop 
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cause they had the factory  cause they had the factory 
26:30

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area there was a lot. [Marilyn] So you were their immediate supervisor in a sense, those area there was a lot. [Marilyn] So you were their immediate supervisor in a sense, those
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eighty people. [Harry] yeah the people, just the people yeah yeah.[Marilyn] So if there was any problem  eighty people. [Harry] yeah the people, just the people yeah yeah.[Marilyn] So if there was any problem 
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on a day to day basis you were the first person that they would go to to say  on a day to day basis you were the first person that they would go to to say 
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that there was a problem? [Harry] Work wise, work wise yeah, yeah, can you come and help me out on this  that there was a problem? [Harry] Work wise, work wise yeah, yeah, can you come and help me out on this 
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on on the work side of things. If it was any, if it was a Union thing then well  on on the work side of things. If it was any, if it was a Union thing then well 
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I'd have to go and tell the superintendent and then he'd ah liaise with, with the ah  I'd have to go and tell the superintendent and then he'd ah liaise with, with the ah 
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Industrial Officer, you know, go through a lot of steps you know and ah  Industrial Officer, you know, go through a lot of steps you know and ah 
27:01

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get it to sort it out. If it was something to do with the Union, you know if the people complained  get it to sort it out. If it was something to do with the Union, you know if the people complained 
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they went to their Union Delegate or something like that, they'd be, it'd take a while for them to sort it out  they went to their Union Delegate or something like that, they'd be, it'd take a while for them to sort it out 
27:13

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[Marilyn] Were there a mixed bunch of people that you had working there at that stage? [Harry] Oh yeah, oh yeah, it always was  [Marilyn] Were there a mixed bunch of people that you had working there at that stage? [Harry] Oh yeah, oh yeah, it always was 
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a mixed lot of people you know. [Marilyn] Still people coming in who weren't very good at speaking [Harry] Yeah a mixed lot of people you know. [Marilyn] Still people coming in who weren't very good at speaking [Harry] Yeah
27:27

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then it wasn't too bad. Th-th-the  then it wasn't too bad. Th-th-the 
27:30

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labour force was fairly stable, but as time went on,  th-the ah labour force was fairly stable, but as time went on,  th-the ah
27:35

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because Orange started to grow a lot too, I think Email sorted out that it  because Orange started to grow a lot too, I think Email sorted out that it 
27:40

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it helped with Email being in Orange because ah the town started to grow!  it helped with Email being in Orange because ah the town started to grow! 
27:48

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People would, you know, the turnover started to get a bit-bit  People would, you know, the turnover started to get a bit-bit 
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you get people that are leaving more, you know, and then you'd have to keep putting new people on and show  you get people that are leaving more, you know, and then you'd have to keep putting new people on and show 
27:56

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training new people, training new people training new people, training new people
27:58

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it made a big difference to everything... [Marilyn] So as Charge Hand,  it made a big difference to everything... [Marilyn] So as Charge Hand, 
28:05

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you main job was to go around keep an eye on how people were going, help them with any [Harry] Yep yeah yeah  you main job was to go around keep an eye on how people were going, help them with any [Harry] Yep yeah yeah 
28:10

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[Marilyn] Any problems that came up during the day, [Harry] Yes [Marilyn] and you got extra pay for that [Harry] Extra pay for that yeah. [Marilyn] and ah  [Marilyn] Any problems that came up during the day, [Harry] Yes [Marilyn] and you got extra pay for that [Harry] Extra pay for that yeah. [Marilyn] and ah 
28:17

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about 80 people working at that [Harry] At at that stage about 80 people working at that [Harry] At at that stage
28:20

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there was, round about 80 people. You see, when when, and and apart from the incentive to work  there was, round about 80 people. You see, when when, and and apart from the incentive to work 
28:26

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goes on, we had a set program we had to do. Say for example there was 200  goes on, we had a set program we had to do. Say for example there was 200 
28:30

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fridges a day or whatever, we had to make sure that we got that program through  fridges a day or whatever, we had to make sure that we got that program through 
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or try to achieve that program. Sometimes ah you might run into  or try to achieve that program. Sometimes ah you might run into 
28:40

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problems and all that, there might be, might be dirt in the paint or runs  problems and all that, there might be, might be dirt in the paint or runs 
28:45

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or something like that. The paint hasn't gone off then bleeding a little bit  or something like that. The paint hasn't gone off then bleeding a little bit 
28:50

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lot of things come into it. Basically you get close to close to the production. [Marilyn] Did you have  lot of things come into it. Basically you get close to close to the production. [Marilyn] Did you have 
28:55

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any particular things that you recall from that time period, any incidents that you had or  any particular things that you recall from that time period, any incidents that you had or 
29:01

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[Harry] No ... oh [Marilyn] As you were working as the Charge Hand? [Harry] Yes, oh yes well   [Harry] No ... oh [Marilyn] As you were working as the Charge Hand? [Harry] Yes, oh yes well  
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there was one unfortunate thing there, getting away from the working side of things, in the ah  there was one unfortunate thing there, getting away from the working side of things, in the ah 
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We had a death in the paint shop which was unfortunate. [Marilyn] What happened there Harry? [Harry] Well well ah  We had a death in the paint shop which was unfortunate. [Marilyn] What happened there Harry? [Harry] Well well ah 
29:19

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overnight, where the spray booths are, well there's water, out the  overnight, where the spray booths are, well there's water, out the 
29:25

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back of it, runs down a curtain to take away the spray dust and all that sort of thing, and one of the   back of it, runs down a curtain to take away the spray dust and all that sort of thing, and one of the  
29:30

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one of the maintenance people  one of the maintenance people 
29:31

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that was working the overnight with a mobile welder, and something happened with the welder and he  that was working the overnight with a mobile welder, and something happened with the welder and he 
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of course he was electrocuted. But ah you know it was  of course he was electrocuted. But ah you know it was 
29:39

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it caused a bit of a stir for a while. [Marilyn] Were you on the premises then? [Harry] No cause it happened during  it caused a bit of a stir for a while. [Marilyn] Were you on the premises then? [Harry] No cause it happened during 
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the night see, when they were doing some work there, when when had no production on.  the night see, when they were doing some work there, when when had no production on. 
29:49

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So its ah, just happened overnight. [Marilyn] How did the company deal with that, when you all arrived the next  So its ah, just happened overnight. [Marilyn] How did the company deal with that, when you all arrived the next 
29:55

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morning? [Harry] Well-well-well the booths. There were two spray, one for primer  morning? [Harry] Well-well-well the booths. There were two spray, one for primer 
30:00

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primer primer
30:01

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putting the primer coat on. And one for the finish coat on. And this happened on the finish coat side, so we couldn't  putting the primer coat on. And one for the finish coat on. And this happened on the finish coat side, so we couldn't 
30:05

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we couldn't work for a while because the Police had it cordoned off, and I think they took the ah  we couldn't work for a while because the Police had it cordoned off, and I think they took the ah 
30:12

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it was a good while ago, but I think they took the welder away and you know, had an investigation  it was a good while ago, but I think they took the welder away and you know, had an investigation 
30:17

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into why it happened and that sort of thing.  into why it happened and that sort of thing. 
30:19

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[Marilyn] What .. [Harry] It was a bit of a traumatic time for us too at home, ah, because the the person lived [Marilyn] What .. [Harry] It was a bit of a traumatic time for us too at home, ah, because the the person lived
30:26

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opposite us in Byng Street, and our little - our little boy Phillip used to play with  opposite us in Byng Street, and our little - our little boy Phillip used to play with 
30:32

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Tommy, their little fella. [Marilyn] So the man's wife  Tommy, their little fella. [Marilyn] So the man's wife 
30:39

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um, did she receive any sort of compensation?  um, did she receive any sort of compensation? 
30:42

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Any help from Email during this time? [Harry] Oh, I would imagine so I just  Any help from Email during this time? [Harry] Oh, I would imagine so I just 
30:46

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I don't know the details of that but more than likely probably would have I suppose. It was  I don't know the details of that but more than likely probably would have I suppose. It was 
30:52

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He wasn't an old man, cause he only had little children like us, and his little feller  He wasn't an old man, cause he only had little children like us, and his little feller 
30:57

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our little boy was only little too  our little boy was only little too 
30:59

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and he wasn't going to school, you know, only two or three years old. [Marilyn] Did safety  and he wasn't going to school, you know, only two or three years old. [Marilyn] Did safety 
31:03

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conditions improve a lot over that-that period of time that you worked there? [Harry] Oh yes yes enormously yeah conditions improve a lot over that-that period of time that you worked there? [Harry] Oh yes yes enormously yeah
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[Marilyn] What sort of things would you say have been really important improvements? [Harry] In-in-in safety wise, I'd say ah well  [Marilyn] What sort of things would you say have been really important improvements? [Harry] In-in-in safety wise, I'd say ah well 
31:15

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the much better equipment, for in the area that I worked in for, the spray paint the much better equipment, for in the area that I worked in for, the spray paint
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painters, you know the-the booths were a lot better. With this water wash  painters, you know the-the booths were a lot better. With this water wash 
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that took the dust away. We didn't have that before of course  that took the dust away. We didn't have that before of course 
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It-it-it took a lot of dust away and ah, proper respirators, meal rooms to sit in  It-it-it took a lot of dust away and ah, proper respirators, meal rooms to sit in 
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smoking room, toilets in the in the paint shop and  smoking room, toilets in the in the paint shop and 
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whereas they didn't have to walk to, way down near the corner, you know they'd be down where the  whereas they didn't have to walk to, way down near the corner, you know they'd be down where the 
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facilities where the, most of the bulk of the factory use, but ah  facilities where the, most of the bulk of the factory use, but ah 
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out in, out in the areas, out on the assembly lines they have to wear glasses all the time  out in, out in the areas, out on the assembly lines they have to wear glasses all the time 
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This is later years of course. [Marilyn] And was this part of your job to make sure that people would This is later years of course. [Marilyn] And was this part of your job to make sure that people would
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follow [Harry] Oh yes [Marilyn] those safety instructions? [Harry] Oh yes, oh yes follow [Harry] Oh yes [Marilyn] those safety instructions? [Harry] Oh yes, oh yes
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and gee you had a job to get them to wear the glasses! 'cause because people had it in and gee you had a job to get them to wear the glasses! 'cause because people had it in
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the back of their heads that these glasses would would, ruin their eyes you know and its the back of their heads that these glasses would would, ruin their eyes you know and its
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pretty hard to make them, to police it, you know and they eventually put on  pretty hard to make them, to police it, you know and they eventually put on 
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on on
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they had a proper Safety Officer and he'd be wandering round through the factory a lot of the time and  they had a proper Safety Officer and he'd be wandering round through the factory a lot of the time and 
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Mr Eastman was his name, wandering round through the factory you know,  Mr Eastman was his name, wandering round through the factory you know, 
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pointing a finger at someone without their glasses on, or report it to the foreman or whatever  pointing a finger at someone without their glasses on, or report it to the foreman or whatever 
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you know. [Marilyn] If you were reported a few times would it be likely that you might loose your  you know. [Marilyn] If you were reported a few times would it be likely that you might loose your 
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job? [Harry] WeThere would job? [Harry] WeThere would
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was, I think there was a system where three times and you're out you know unless you wore your glasses was, I think there was a system where three times and you're out you know unless you wore your glasses
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and ah, whatever-whatever-whatever you know the the  and ah, whatever-whatever-whatever you know the the 
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other equipment, whatever the equipment you had to wear. [Marilyn] I guess Email wouldn't have been short of potential employees are on other equipment, whatever the equipment you had to wear. [Marilyn] I guess Email wouldn't have been short of potential employees are on
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either. [Harry] Oh no, oh no, there was plenty coming to the gate all the time you know [Marilyn] looking for jobs [Harry] Looking for jobs, Yeah either. [Harry] Oh no, oh no, there was plenty coming to the gate all the time you know [Marilyn] looking for jobs [Harry] Looking for jobs, Yeah
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of course sometimes they of course sometimes they
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people got a bit known. You know, they'd only come there for two to three weeks and go, and they'd be on and off  people got a bit known. You know, they'd only come there for two to three weeks and go, and they'd be on and off 
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on and off and  on and off and 
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eventually they wouldn't get a job. [Marilyn] Were you working shift work at all in this period of time? [Harry] Well I  eventually they wouldn't get a job. [Marilyn] Were you working shift work at all in this period of time? [Harry] Well I 
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Not then, but in later years, in probably the '60's or something like that they, as Not then, but in later years, in probably the '60's or something like that they, as
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it got bigger, production got bigger then they had to put on a second sheet, and it got bigger, production got bigger then they had to put on a second sheet, and
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I had to take that on and about that time I ah I had to take that on and about that time I ah
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was appointed to be a Foreman, because I was running the second shift, on the afternoon shift  was appointed to be a Foreman, because I was running the second shift, on the afternoon shift 
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[Marilyn] And was that um a step-up from Charge Hand? [Harry] Ah yes  [Marilyn] And was that um a step-up from Charge Hand? [Harry] Ah yes 
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[Marilyn] and again better money... [Harry] Little bit more money (laughs) more responsibility [Marilyn] More responsibility I would imagine?  [Marilyn] and again better money... [Harry] Little bit more money (laughs) more responsibility [Marilyn] More responsibility I would imagine? 
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a bit more responsibility, but I  still always had had that  a bit more responsibility, but I  still always had had that 
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the back stopper, but obviously pretended if I, if I, I couldn't handle something  the back stopper, but obviously pretended if I, if I, I couldn't handle something 
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like I could always go to him and, always had the Superintendent there [Marilyn] And did you have  like I could always go to him and, always had the Superintendent there [Marilyn] And did you have 
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some paperwork then that you were involved in? as you went up to Foreman? [Harry] Oh yes, yeah yeah yeah we had to do, we had to some paperwork then that you were involved in? as you went up to Foreman? [Harry] Oh yes, yeah yeah yeah we had to do, we had to
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graphs on on on the  graphs on on on the 
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on how much scrap we were generating and all those sort of things, you know, and production  on how much scrap we were generating and all those sort of things, you know, and production 
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and graphs and different things like that. [Marilyn] And was training still basically on the job training for  and graphs and different things like that. [Marilyn] And was training still basically on the job training for 
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people coming in? [Harry] Mostly on the job training, ah people coming in? [Harry] Mostly on the job training, ah
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of course they had had a a good apprenticeship course out there  of course they had had a a good apprenticeship course out there 
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Email did. [Marilyn] In the sixties and seventies? [Harry] Yes - oh yes [Marilyn] Do they still have one there now? [Harry] Oh I Email did. [Marilyn] In the sixties and seventies? [Harry] Yes - oh yes [Marilyn] Do they still have one there now? [Harry] Oh I
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oh yes yeah yeah, And we used.. they built in one of those  oh yes yeah yeah, And we used.. they built in one of those 
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out there that are on the  out there that are on the 
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just this end of the carpark, a training centre. [Marilyn] No I didn't notice on that just this end of the carpark, a training centre. [Marilyn] No I didn't notice on that
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visit because we didn't go through all of the area. [Harry] Yeah yeah no I see. No the ah apprenticeship  visit because we didn't go through all of the area. [Harry] Yeah yeah no I see. No the ah apprenticeship 
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place was-was  place was-was 
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really good. Because a lot of the people that went through that as young people, ah really good. Because a lot of the people that went through that as young people, ah
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are top executives at the company today! They they, some of them stayed there. Ryan  are top executives at the company today! They they, some of them stayed there. Ryan 
34:56

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Critchlow is one. He's he's a chap I know and, he ah came up  Critchlow is one. He's he's a chap I know and, he ah came up 
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[Marilyn] So you had quite a few apprentices come through in your years? [Harry] Came through, yeah [Marilyn] So you had quite a few apprentices come through in your years? [Harry] Came through, yeah
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Yes, as good responsible people. [Marilyn] And you showed them what the job was? [Harry] Well you see  Yes, as good responsible people. [Marilyn] And you showed them what the job was? [Harry] Well you see 
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what they done was  what they done was 
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with the Apprentices, of course, on on our apprentince area, ah shop, what they  with the Apprentices, of course, on on our apprentince area, ah shop, what they 
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they learnt things, then they had to go out into the field, in through the factory and, you know they learnt things, then they had to go out into the field, in through the factory and, you know
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sometimes they might send a, he might be electricians to it doesn't  sometimes they might send a, he might be electricians to it doesn't 
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matter, they'd send him to the paint shop, and we'd have to give him work experience, and so so it helps him  matter, they'd send him to the paint shop, and we'd have to give him work experience, and so so it helps him 
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more than just learn the the technical side of things  more than just learn the the technical side of things 
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They'd see how the how the company works. [Marilyn] And some of these apprentices would have been very young too wouldn't they? [Harry] Oh yes  They'd see how the how the company works. [Marilyn] And some of these apprentices would have been very young too wouldn't they? [Harry] Oh yes 
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[Marilyn] fifteen years old [Harry] Oh yes yeah young people, quite good people [Marilyn] And what  [Marilyn] fifteen years old [Harry] Oh yes yeah young people, quite good people [Marilyn] And what 
35:45

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were you required to go to Tech, and do anything at all like that? [Harry] No, well in  were you required to go to Tech, and do anything at all like that? [Harry] No, well in 
35:49

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later years, when I became a foreman  later years, when I became a foreman 
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there was a lot of communication meetings and ah management course meetings there was a lot of communication meetings and ah management course meetings
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and they'd have one say every month or something like that, you'd have to go to one  and they'd have one say every month or something like that, you'd have to go to one 
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those and they might bring some special person up  those and they might bring some special person up 
36:06

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involved in those sort of management courses from Sydney or somewhere and  involved in those sort of management courses from Sydney or somewhere and 
36:10

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they would lecture us, for a  they would lecture us, for a 
36:12

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maybe half a day, or sometimes a full day, and we'd be, then you'd come back to your  maybe half a day, or sometimes a full day, and we'd be, then you'd come back to your 
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area and you look over things and you area and you look over things and you
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check everything's right and so back you'd go again and you'd have to do those sort of courses, and ah check everything's right and so back you'd go again and you'd have to do those sort of courses, and ah
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which helped a lot, you know, and how to run your place and that sort of thing [Marilyn] you mentioned earlier which helped a lot, you know, and how to run your place and that sort of thing [Marilyn] you mentioned earlier
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that um another Email worker, the the man that was killed, lived near your place  that um another Email worker, the the man that was killed, lived near your place 
36:34

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Did you and your family mix socially much with your workmates from Email?  Did you and your family mix socially much with your workmates from Email? 
36:39

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[Harry] Oh well,  [Harry] Oh well, 
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not a real lot, but they had functions now and again  not a real lot, but they had functions now and again 
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where all the staff would go along and go to some function  where all the staff would go along and go to some function 
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together and that sort of thing and ah, ah they'd have dances  together and that sort of thing and ah, ah they'd have dances 
36:53

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The the social club, we used to go to those dances and things like that you know or  The the social club, we used to go to those dances and things like that you know or 
36:58

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picnics and things like that. [Marilyn] Did they have um Christmas parties for the children did they? [Harry] Oh yeah yeah yes.  picnics and things like that. [Marilyn] Did they have um Christmas parties for the children did they? [Harry] Oh yeah yeah yes. 
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a couple of couple of the people. Well this one bloke the  a couple of couple of the people. Well this one bloke the 
37:07

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Superintendent that I used to work under, they they they went and got an older truck and   Superintendent that I used to work under, they they they went and got an older truck and  
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one of them had an old truck and they went around some of the families  one of them had an old truck and they went around some of the families 
37:15

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with red coats on, Santa, (laughs) and gave toys and things out. [Marilyn] The little  with red coats on, Santa, (laughs) and gave toys and things out. [Marilyn] The little 
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kids must have loved that [Harry] just for small children ... and some of the people who ah, they  weren't quite as well off   kids must have loved that [Harry] just for small children ... and some of the people who ah, they  weren't quite as well off  
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as everyone else, it think they, that impressed them you know. [Marilyn] I guess that would help to create a nice atmosphere at work  as everyone else, it think they, that impressed them you know. [Marilyn] I guess that would help to create a nice atmosphere at work 
37:32

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[Harry] Oh  [Harry] Oh 
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yes, yeah people talk about it then and how it went on [Marilyn] Those sorts of  yes, yeah people talk about it then and how it went on [Marilyn] Those sorts of 
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things still happen do they? Christmas parties and so on?  things still happen do they? Christmas parties and so on? 
37:40

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[Harry] Oh I- I- I don't know, they more than likely do but, what I think  [Harry] Oh I- I- I don't know, they more than likely do but, what I think 
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that they waned a little bit you know over time with that they waned a little bit you know over time with
37:46

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a lot more people getting there. You know the workforce got bigger and  a lot more people getting there. You know the workforce got bigger and 
37:52

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15 to 1600 to 1700 15 to 1600 to 1700
37:54

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it makes a difference then [Marilyn] and in addition to the, all those changes it makes a difference then [Marilyn] and in addition to the, all those changes
37:59

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that you've you've noticed over the years with ah Email, you were saying to me too that Orange that you've you've noticed over the years with ah Email, you were saying to me too that Orange
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itself has changed itself has changed
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a great deal. What things in particular that you've noticed [Harry] (Coughs) well a a great deal. What things in particular that you've noticed [Harry] (Coughs) well a
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oh gee its has certainly certainly grew a lot bigger.  oh gee its has certainly certainly grew a lot bigger. 
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I think it think its due to the fact that  I think it think its due to the fact that 
38:16

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that Email's here and we've made a big difference, because all all the money comes in through Email. You have to take example that Email's here and we've made a big difference, because all all the money comes in through Email. You have to take example
38:21

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the High School area up near Duntryleague. That was just a  the High School area up near Duntryleague. That was just a 
38:24

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local paddock there. With a big row of pine trees just across there. I know my cousins used  local paddock there. With a big row of pine trees just across there. I know my cousins used 
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to, they trained horses, and they used to go across there with their horses and through  to, they trained horses, and they used to go across there with their horses and through 
38:33

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the other other side of Coronation Drive which there wasn't many houses there either and the other other side of Coronation Drive which there wasn't many houses there either and
38:38

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that and they used to go down across there and use it as a racetrack. [Marilyn] Was there a golf course there at that stage?  that and they used to go down across there and use it as a racetrack. [Marilyn] Was there a golf course there at that stage? 
38:45

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[Harry] Yes - there was a golf course at Duntryleague yeah there was. But up at Green [Harry] Yes - there was a golf course at Duntryleague yeah there was. But up at Green
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Lane and over the hill and near the ladies college there was no houses  Lane and over the hill and near the ladies college there was no houses 
38:56

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and there was no such thing as Green Lane or any of those places in those days. And the road from from the  and there was no such thing as Green Lane or any of those places in those days. And the road from from the 
39:02

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top of the hill on, from there at the college, was just corrugated dirt road top of the hill on, from there at the college, was just corrugated dirt road
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but there was nothing down there, not a thing. Down towards Ploughmans Lane or Wentworth Golf Club there was  but there was nothing down there, not a thing. Down towards Ploughmans Lane or Wentworth Golf Club there was 
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none of that. There was just a big paddock there. [Marilyn] And most of those changes have what, taken place in the  none of that. There was just a big paddock there. [Marilyn] And most of those changes have what, taken place in the 
39:16

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last ten years would you say or? [Harry] Oh yeah, I would say so. Even where we lived the round twenty years ago  last ten years would you say or? [Harry] Oh yeah, I would say so. Even where we lived the round twenty years ago 
39:23

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there was  there was 
39:23

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only a few houses there.  There was nobody no houses opposite our house there, now  only a few houses there.  There was nobody no houses opposite our house there, now 
39:27

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its all filled in with new houses. New houses everywhere. You know [Marilyn] And what about the main part of Orange, what  its all filled in with new houses. New houses everywhere. You know [Marilyn] And what about the main part of Orange, what 
39:34

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big changes have you noticed there in the the business area of Orange. [Harry] Oh, ah gee, when we  big changes have you noticed there in the the business area of Orange. [Harry] Oh, ah gee, when we 
39:40

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you know it was a new area about about the oh Grace Bros  you know it was a new area about about the oh Grace Bros 
39:44

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around about there. Like I said there was nothing about there at all in ah,.... well the Ford motor company was just opposite  around about there. Like I said there was nothing about there at all in ah,.... well the Ford motor company was just opposite 
39:51

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the ah, Woolworths Carpark where its underneath carpark there, the Ford Motor company used to have a  the ah, Woolworths Carpark where its underneath carpark there, the Ford Motor company used to have a 
39:56

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their garage was there. Now they're right out at the end of the town where there was no  their garage was there. Now they're right out at the end of the town where there was no 
40:01

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nothing there, that was just open paddocks out there. No the business, business area has really  nothing there, that was just open paddocks out there. No the business, business area has really 
40:08

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just, really changed. You know Woolworths, there was nothing along there either, only only  just, really changed. You know Woolworths, there was nothing along there either, only only 
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I think there was  I think there was 
40:13

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a Solicitors along there where they are now and ah, its changed a lot now. Even up east end, up this end of the town  a Solicitors along there where they are now and ah, its changed a lot now. Even up east end, up this end of the town 
40:20

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you know where Canobolas High School and east end, there was no buildings there, no houses and  you know where Canobolas High School and east end, there was no buildings there, no houses and 
40:25

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could go, wife and I we used to be able to go for a walk up there, up the top of the hill up there. (laughs) could go, wife and I we used to be able to go for a walk up there, up the top of the hill up there. (laughs)
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It was a big ah gravel pit it think. Where they used to get gravel for the roads  It was a big ah gravel pit it think. Where they used to get gravel for the roads 
40:35

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and now its all, of course its all been filled in with houses along there. [Marilyn] Did most and now its all, of course its all been filled in with houses along there. [Marilyn] Did most
40:39

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people just get about with a bike? Were there many cars? [Harry] Yes, oh yeah, or you walked  people just get about with a bike? Were there many cars? [Harry] Yes, oh yeah, or you walked 
40:44

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if you didn't have a bike you walked. [Marilyn] When did you purchase a car?  if you didn't have a bike you walked. [Marilyn] When did you purchase a car? 
40:49

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[Harry] Oh It was in ... [Marilyn] Do you remember what your first car was or what that was?  [Harry] Oh It was in ... [Marilyn] Do you remember what your first car was or what that was? 
40:52

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[Harry] Yes - it it it was a Chrysler Royal. A real big car it was (laughs)  [Harry] Yes - it it it was a Chrysler Royal. A real big car it was (laughs) 
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It must have cost a fortune to run it. We never noticed it then I suppose - petrol would be so cheap. But ah  It must have cost a fortune to run it. We never noticed it then I suppose - petrol would be so cheap. But ah 
41:03

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It would have been when the ah first time we went to live in the bush it  It would have been when the ah first time we went to live in the bush it 
41:07

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Email the first time. We bought that because we had to have transport ah Email the first time. We bought that because we had to have transport ah
41:12

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with the children and that and coming in and out of town. So that was our first car. [Marilyn] What sort of effects do you think  with the children and that and coming in and out of town. So that was our first car. [Marilyn] What sort of effects do you think 
41:19

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Email has had on the town of Orange? [Harry] Oh well well, Orange has become  Email has had on the town of Orange? [Harry] Oh well well, Orange has become 
41:26

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a city as it is know today, I think oh  a city as it is know today, I think oh 
41:29

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Email played a big part in helping making Orange what it is. It would be hard to, it really  Email played a big part in helping making Orange what it is. It would be hard to, it really 
41:36

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made to millions dollars passed into this area and to Orange  made to millions dollars passed into this area and to Orange 
41:41

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by Email  by Email 
41:41

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from wages etc. Like local businesses that have really been helped  from wages etc. Like local businesses that have really been helped 
41:48

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a great deal here. Like transport operators, steel suppliers, builders, timber,  a great deal here. Like transport operators, steel suppliers, builders, timber, 
41:55

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concrete etc. You know a lot, a lot of people have  concrete etc. You know a lot, a lot of people have 
41:57

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made big money out of it, ... big dollars. Actually  made big money out of it, ... big dollars. Actually 
42:02

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see one one chap I know, he reckons he told me that the money he's made from Email  see one one chap I know, he reckons he told me that the money he's made from Email 
42:08

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he's a builder, a concrete worker and so on, that he was able to buy a   he's a builder, a concrete worker and so on, that he was able to buy a  
42:13

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holiday unit at Manly. And it just shows you how much money's around, but but  holiday unit at Manly. And it just shows you how much money's around, but but 
42:18

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without Email I don't think Orange would have been the city that it was today. [Marilyn] And it's still without Email I don't think Orange would have been the city that it was today. [Marilyn] And it's still
42:25

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one of the, oh The biggest [Harry] Biggest yeah!  [Marilyn] employees, oh employers ah in the City. [Harry] It is yeah, yeah one of the, oh The biggest [Harry] Biggest yeah!  [Marilyn] employees, oh employers ah in the City. [Harry] It is yeah, yeah
42:31

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[Marilyn] Do you have any other comments or memories [Marilyn] Do you have any other comments or memories
42:34

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about your time with Email Harry that you would like to mention briefly? [Harry] Well, I could say  about your time with Email Harry that you would like to mention briefly? [Harry] Well, I could say 
42:40

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one one funny incident that actually happened, happened to me and I thought was gonna get the sack over it, one one funny incident that actually happened, happened to me and I thought was gonna get the sack over it,
42:45

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there was, there was a fire  there was, there was a fire 
42:48

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in what we called Igloo. Not in the fridges, there was slag wool put in the sides for ah  in what we called Igloo. Not in the fridges, there was slag wool put in the sides for ah 
42:55

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to to, ah for the insulation  to to, ah for the insulation 
42:58

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and that it caught alight, during the summer during the you know and that it caught alight, during the summer during the you know
43:02

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it combusted or something, I don't know what happened but it combusted or something, I don't know what happened but
43:03

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anyway it caught alight, and we had to, I was a member of the fire brigade in Orange and  anyway it caught alight, and we had to, I was a member of the fire brigade in Orange and 
43:09

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