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0:02

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OK, Al, now getting back to um, the, the end of fighting and the couple of days, or the few days, downtime you had after Tobruk. OK, Al, now getting back to um, the, the end of fighting and the couple of days, or the few days, downtime you had after Tobruk.
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What was uh What was uh
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[Don] What? What were your impressions after the actual fighting? How did you feel after the, after the actual battle? [Al] Ah well Don, let's face it. I, I was bloody pleased it was all over. [Don] What? What were your impressions after the actual fighting? How did you feel after the, after the actual battle? [Al] Ah well Don, let's face it. I, I was bloody pleased it was all over.
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You're washed out. You're washed out.
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And thank God you've had a something to eat and a cup of tea for a change. And thank God you've had a something to eat and a cup of tea for a change.
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And And
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just a feeling of relief. You've made it. just a feeling of relief. You've made it.
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That is, it's a, it's a wonderful feeling. That is, it's a, it's a wonderful feeling.
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And thank God it's over, yeah, sure, that's just how you feel. And thank God it's over, yeah, sure, that's just how you feel.
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Now when we'd finished there, we had this break and then we Now when we'd finished there, we had this break and then we
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they trucked us up to ?Durner? they trucked us up to ?Durner?
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The other brigade had taken it The other brigade had taken it
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And then moved on to Benghazi. And then moved on to Benghazi.
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And they moved us up there as part of the Garrison. And they moved us up there as part of the Garrison.
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And they put us up in a deserted hotel. And they put us up in a deserted hotel.
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It was a rather nice hotel actually, by the look of the furniture that was still in there. The locals had raided the place and taken out everything they could carry. It was a rather nice hotel actually, by the look of the furniture that was still in there. The locals had raided the place and taken out everything they could carry.
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But there was still a piano, and various things stuck in there. But there was still a piano, and various things stuck in there.
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And, uh, And, uh,
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I don't know how we inherited him, but they gave us a I don't know how we inherited him, but they gave us a
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An Italian prisoner of war. An Italian prisoner of war.
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To, uh, To, uh,
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[Al] Well, he was a prisoner of war, and they said we could use him in any way for any chores around this hotel. [Don] Chief cook and bottle washer [Al] Yeah. [Al] Well, he was a prisoner of war, and they said we could use him in any way for any chores around this hotel. [Don] Chief cook and bottle washer [Al] Yeah.
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Do you know he is a wonderful pianist, really good pianist, and a beautiful cook. I had a wonderful, with a bit of bully beef and confiscated Italian Do you know he is a wonderful pianist, really good pianist, and a beautiful cook. I had a wonderful, with a bit of bully beef and confiscated Italian
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[Al] tinned uh fish and so on. He'd knock up meals. He was a marvel! *laughter* [Don] Did you actually ah get to sleep in a bed of sorts? [Al] No beds [Al] tinned uh fish and so on. He'd knock up meals. He was a marvel! *laughter* [Don] Did you actually ah get to sleep in a bed of sorts? [Al] No beds
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[Don] Taken all the beds. [Al] Yeah, yeah, we actually just swept through the town a couple of times and uh confiscated stuff from them, for instance big radio gear. Huge. Radio then was very much different to day .Was huge. Bloody great things. Some of them, we couldn't move. And uh they said, but it's mine. It's mine. I said yes. Look Italian army. And in the process there. [Don] Taken all the beds. [Al] Yeah, yeah, we actually just swept through the town a couple of times and uh confiscated stuff from them, for instance big radio gear. Huge. Radio then was very much different to day .Was huge. Bloody great things. Some of them, we couldn't move. And uh they said, but it's mine. It's mine. I said yes. Look Italian army. And in the process there.
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I should have mentioned at Tobruk I should have mentioned at Tobruk
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We actually ah We actually ah
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I I, this will be of interest to you. I struck a British naval can-cannon. I I, this will be of interest to you. I struck a British naval can-cannon.
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On a huge concrete bed and a bit of a fortress arrangement. On a huge concrete bed and a bit of a fortress arrangement.
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And on it, said Vickers Armstrong, 1916, was an 8 inch naval cannon. [Don] Used by the Italians? [Al] Yeah. [Don] Against the Australians. [Al] Yeah, of course they have allies then in World War 1. [Don] Yeah that's right. [Al] Yeah yeah, now I think that was pointing out to sea Don. Yeah I don't think they could have, no they couldn't have got it around to us. And on it, said Vickers Armstrong, 1916, was an 8 inch naval cannon. [Don] Used by the Italians? [Al] Yeah. [Don] Against the Australians. [Al] Yeah, of course they have allies then in World War 1. [Don] Yeah that's right. [Al] Yeah yeah, now I think that was pointing out to sea Don. Yeah I don't think they could have, no they couldn't have got it around to us.
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Anyways it was too big. I mean you don't want an 18 inch ?for? infantry advancing.  [Don] So I understand that your brother, Kel, he joined you, um. He transferred across from The Pioneers he joined you in in your section, but you had two other brothers that were also serving in the Middle East in different units.  [Al] Yes, that's right, ah it was Nick with the second 6 Field Regiment artillery. Anyways it was too big. I mean you don't want an 18 inch ?for? infantry advancing.  [Don] So I understand that your brother, Kel, he joined you, um. He transferred across from The Pioneers he joined you in in your section, but you had two other brothers that were also serving in the Middle East in different units.  [Al] Yes, that's right, ah it was Nick with the second 6 Field Regiment artillery.
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He was a Bombardier in there. He was a Bombardier in there.
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[Don] And who was the other? [Al] Dick. [Don] And who was the other? [Al] Dick.
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[Don] And what unit was he serving? [Al] Second, second machine gun regiment. [Don] And what unit was he serving? [Al] Second, second machine gun regiment.
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[Don] Ninth division, and did you get to see, you obviously got to see Kel 'cause he was serving with you? Did you get to see Nick or Dick, during the campaigns? [Al] No, uh. [Don] Ninth division, and did you get to see, you obviously got to see Kel 'cause he was serving with you? Did you get to see Nick or Dick, during the campaigns? [Al] No, uh.
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I never saw Dick and Nick, I mean. I never saw Dick and Nick, I mean.
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I saw Dick for a short period, when they I saw Dick for a short period, when they
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I, I can't remember where they were going, they were moving somewhere. I, I can't remember where they were going, they were moving somewhere.
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This is before we headed off t- This is before we headed off t-
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But I just saw him for a few minutes. He was with his unit. But I just saw him for a few minutes. He was with his unit.
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And they were being sent somewhere, probably up to Syria. And they were being sent somewhere, probably up to Syria.
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'Course we just come back I think, only saw him literally a minute or two and ah then they moved on. 'Course we just come back I think, only saw him literally a minute or two and ah then they moved on.
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But I never saw Nick, unfortunately, and uh But I never saw Nick, unfortunately, and uh
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He was killed near Jezzine in the central sector of the He was killed near Jezzine in the central sector of the
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The attack in Syria. The attack in Syria.
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[Don] Well we might we might talk about that later because you your your unit actually served in Syria, didn't it? [Al] That's right, yeah. [Don] So we'll go to Syria but that was after Greece. Now after Derna [Don] Well we might we might talk about that later because you your your unit actually served in Syria, didn't it? [Al] That's right, yeah. [Don] So we'll go to Syria but that was after Greece. Now after Derna
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What what happened after Derner uh, and what transpired? What what happened after Derner uh, and what transpired?
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To uh, to move you up to Greece? [Al] Well, as I said we were - we were a  garrison there for some period of time. To uh, to move you up to Greece? [Al] Well, as I said we were - we were a  garrison there for some period of time.
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?And a? you could look up that. ?And a? you could look up that.
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And then they, we had a good time there I must say, somebody woke up to the fact of grenade would get fish for the whole company if they dropped it off a wharf, down on the sea. Which we did a couple of times [laughing] and fresh fish was wonderful. So we fed up and we had a hot - hot tea for a change, uh then we were moved out by truck. We got down to Mersa Matruh And then they, we had a good time there I must say, somebody woke up to the fact of grenade would get fish for the whole company if they dropped it off a wharf, down on the sea. Which we did a couple of times [laughing] and fresh fish was wonderful. So we fed up and we had a hot - hot tea for a change, uh then we were moved out by truck. We got down to Mersa Matruh
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On the way out of the desert. On the way out of the desert.
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That's past Fort Capuzzo down to Mersa Matruh, and we stayed there. That's past Fort Capuzzo down to Mersa Matruh, and we stayed there.
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Had a break there. Had a break there.
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And that's when we got issued with our Thompson machine guns, submachine guns. And that's when we got issued with our Thompson machine guns, submachine guns.
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And I's And I's
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Got my promotion to Corporal and take took over the section. Got my promotion to Corporal and take took over the section.
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I was offered a 1 stripe which I refused. To begin with it was unpaid and I thought if you have the responsibility, at least they could give that extra couple of bob a day, but uh I was offered a 1 stripe which I refused. To begin with it was unpaid and I thought if you have the responsibility, at least they could give that extra couple of bob a day, but uh
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We got issued with, we got no instruction with those Thompsons, just ammunition, magazines and a gun. So uh, it was easy enough to work out. There's a cocking lever and the magazines well, just like the Bren. We got issued with, we got no instruction with those Thompsons, just ammunition, magazines and a gun. So uh, it was easy enough to work out. There's a cocking lever and the magazines well, just like the Bren.
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But uh b-being rimless they were easier to put in. But uh b-being rimless they were easier to put in.
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[Don] And how did you find the uh Thompson submachine gun uhm compared to the weapons that you'd already been? [Al] Well we didn't have a chance to fire them then. [Don] And how did you find the uh Thompson submachine gun uhm compared to the weapons that you'd already been? [Al] Well we didn't have a chance to fire them then.
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But uh. But uh.
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as we found out much later on, they are a very very effective close order weapon. Very effective. Devastating as a matter fact, delivered to the recipients. as we found out much later on, they are a very very effective close order weapon. Very effective. Devastating as a matter fact, delivered to the recipients.
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But then we uh, we then were moved back to uh our old camp at El Amiriya outside uh But then we uh, we then were moved back to uh our old camp at El Amiriya outside uh
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But uh, Alexandria. But uh, Alexandria.
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We uh, We uh,
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We were given a day's leave into the city of Alexandria. We were given a day's leave into the city of Alexandria.
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And we all headed off. And we all headed off.
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I must say the first thing I did was have a really good feed in a beautiful restaurant. I must say the first thing I did was have a really good feed in a beautiful restaurant.
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In a street called Crue de l'ancient ?Morse?, I think that means something like In a street called Crue de l'ancient ?Morse?, I think that means something like
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The ancient err.. The ancient err..
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Money changer or bank. But uh, that was a beautiful restaurant, magnificent meal. Then I sought out a To-Turkish bath. First real bath for Money changer or bank. But uh, that was a beautiful restaurant, magnificent meal. Then I sought out a To-Turkish bath. First real bath for
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Seemed like a year, but it was only probably three or four months. Seemed like a year, but it was only probably three or four months.
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Long enough. Long enough.
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I can still see the the muck pouring off. You know you're looking at it, and then they they rub you down, was wonderful. I can still see the the muck pouring off. You know you're looking at it, and then they they rub you down, was wonderful.
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Got back on the streets. Got back on the streets.
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And there was the military police, Australian military police, saying all men of this, from the six division must return to your camp. And there was the military police, Australian military police, saying all men of this, from the six division must return to your camp.
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But I've got a leave pass. "This is an order. Please carry it out." But I've got a leave pass. "This is an order. Please carry it out."
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And they made trucks available, and raced us back. And they made trucks available, and raced us back.
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Naturally, they went round Naturally, they went round
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The restaurants and drinking places and the brothels and round up all the men. The restaurants and drinking places and the brothels and round up all the men.
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I don't know if anyone was left behind, but they kept it up night and day I don't know if anyone was left behind, but they kept it up night and day
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Uh, the following morning we-we when we were back in camp. Uh, the following morning we-we when we were back in camp.
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We would truck down to the wharves in Alexandria. We would truck down to the wharves in Alexandria.
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And we were loaded onto a British destr- British cruiser. And we were loaded onto a British destr- British cruiser.
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The Gloucester, magnificent ship to us. The Gloucester, magnificent ship to us.
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Ah. Ah.
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The uh crew took charge of us, shuffled us on. The uh crew took charge of us, shuffled us on.
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Ah, they put on had big racks on the deck, made of roughly hit together pine Ah, they put on had big racks on the deck, made of roughly hit together pine
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And we hooked all our web equipment on there. And we hooked all our web equipment on there.
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We might have even put our rifles too. We might have even put our rifles too.
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But I didn't part with my Thompson, I took it and ah But I didn't part with my Thompson, I took it and ah
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We were sent down below and they said you do do not come on deck for any reason whatsoever. You stay below decks, don't get in the way of the crew. We were sent down below and they said you do do not come on deck for any reason whatsoever. You stay below decks, don't get in the way of the crew.
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And we didn't know where we going. No one said a word and we headed off. [Don] So at that stage ,um, you was ah And we didn't know where we going. No one said a word and we headed off. [Don] So at that stage ,um, you was ah
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[Don] As a troop, or as a soldier uh hadn't been told where you were heading to? [Al] No. [Don] As a troop, or as a soldier uh hadn't been told where you were heading to? [Al] No.
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But seein' as we were out at sea, of course they told us. But seein' as we were out at sea, of course they told us.
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And we thought what are we doing going to Greece? And we thought what are we doing going to Greece?
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[Don] So what happened, uh? What happened in Greece, ah,? You you disembarked where? [Al] We disembarked at the ah at the Port of Athens called Piraeus. [Don] So what happened, uh? What happened in Greece, ah,? You you disembarked where? [Al] We disembarked at the ah at the Port of Athens called Piraeus.
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And ah And ah
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W-we disembarked there, and W-we disembarked there, and
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We did a march We did a march
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Through the street. Through the street.
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To a camp, an encampment on the outskirts of the city. To a camp, an encampment on the outskirts of the city.
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The Greeks were ecstatic. Someone coming to save them from the Germans and the Italians. The Greeks were ecstatic. Someone coming to save them from the Germans and the Italians.
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ah history was to prove otherwise, of course, but they waved and cheered. ah history was to prove otherwise, of course, but they waved and cheered.
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And uh they thou- some of them thought we were cowboys because we had a hat. And uh they thou- some of them thought we were cowboys because we had a hat.
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We didn't march in battle order there. Of course we'd been on the ship. We didn't march in battle order there. Of course we'd been on the ship.
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And um And um
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This encampment at a place called Daphni. This encampment at a place called Daphni.
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It was the area where we went. We were there It was the area where we went. We were there
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A few days then they moved us A few days then they moved us
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out out
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and we got to a place called Larissa. and we got to a place called Larissa.
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And And
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Our particular platoon was given the job of guarding uh, a food and am- food and ammunition dump. Our particular platoon was given the job of guarding uh, a food and am- food and ammunition dump.
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An' it was staffed by Italian prisoners of war. An' it was staffed by Italian prisoners of war.
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We just had to guard them. Dead easy job. We just had to guard them. Dead easy job.
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We did that for quite awhile, we had leave into Larissa at times. We did that for quite awhile, we had leave into Larissa at times.
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And..  [Don] What was it like going on leave, uh And..  [Don] What was it like going on leave, uh
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in Larissa or in in Greece, as opposed to the Middle East? [Al] Was a nice little town and uh, you could get some good food. in Larissa or in in Greece, as opposed to the Middle East? [Al] Was a nice little town and uh, you could get some good food.
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Not a lot because they were short of rations. Not a lot because they were short of rations.
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And uh, when you did that, the Greek army took over. The Greek army was still had And uh, when you did that, the Greek army took over. The Greek army was still had
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Of all things they, it looked to me like single shot rifles. Of all things they, it looked to me like single shot rifles.
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Yeah, some of 'em had ah Yeah, some of 'em had ah
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Old old Mausers, they showed us their weapons, but they didn't seem to have any modern equipment. Old old Mausers, they showed us their weapons, but they didn't seem to have any modern equipment.
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The - the single shots dated back to the 1880s. The - the single shots dated back to the 1880s.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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And falling block action like the uh, the old uh And falling block action like the uh, the old uh
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what they used to call the Cadet rifle. [Don] Yeah what they used to call the Cadet rifle. [Don] Yeah
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[Don] So what happened after you uh finished guarding this  uh food or supply dump? What uh what was your... [Al] Well then they marched us out and we headed up to the mountains. [Don] So what happened after you uh finished guarding this  uh food or supply dump? What uh what was your... [Al] Well then they marched us out and we headed up to the mountains.
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And uh And uh
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We weren't well equipped for that because we'd come from the desert. We weren't well equipped for that because we'd come from the desert.
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Even though it'd been win-winter. Even though it'd been win-winter.
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We were in fairly light clothing and as soon as we get onto this mountain. There was snow everywhere. We were in fairly light clothing and as soon as we get onto this mountain. There was snow everywhere.
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And I, one of our blokes actually still only had shorts. Charlie Johnson, will never forget him. And I, one of our blokes actually still only had shorts. Charlie Johnson, will never forget him.
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Ah.. Ah..
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But there was nothing to give him, so he put up with them. But there was nothing to give him, so he put up with them.
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The rest of us at least had long slacks on, and uh The rest of us at least had long slacks on, and uh
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We were in our winter uniforms then. We were in our winter uniforms then.
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But Charlie, I don't know what happened to him. Anyway, we went along and uh But Charlie, I don't know what happened to him. Anyway, we went along and uh
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We march round these mountain side tracks. We march round these mountain side tracks.
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I don't know, seems to be days. I can't remember how long we're up there. I don't know, seems to be days. I can't remember how long we're up there.
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And we got up near the Albanian border they told us. And we got up near the Albanian border they told us.
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And that's as far as we got. We stayed there for a while. And that's as far as we got. We stayed there for a while.
13:03

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We didn't see a soul and they told us we're marching down again. We didn't see a soul and they told us we're marching down again.
13:08

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And that's what we did. And that's what we did.
13:10

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A bit a shamozzle we didn't seem to have any intelligence of what was happening. Disappointing, but there it is. A bit a shamozzle we didn't seem to have any intelligence of what was happening. Disappointing, but there it is.
13:18

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And we marched down to where we'd been before And we marched down to where we'd been before
13:22

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And And
13:23

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They moved us in the direction of this uh, They moved us in the direction of this uh,
13:27

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Along this roadway. Along this roadway.
13:29

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And said, we- this is the positio- area you have to hold. And said, we- this is the positio- area you have to hold.
13:33

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On the high ground we had some New Zealand artillery. On the high ground we had some New Zealand artillery.
13:37

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Little did we know they had virtually no ammunition. Little did we know they had virtually no ammunition.
13:41

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And uh And uh
13:43

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We stayed there. Then they sent a platoon of us forward We stayed there. Then they sent a platoon of us forward
13:49

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To do a complete rec-rec- uh reconnoitre of the whole area. [Don] So this is at a place called Tempe Gorge, was it? [Al] I think so. Yes. [Don] Yep yep. To do a complete rec-rec- uh reconnoitre of the whole area. [Don] So this is at a place called Tempe Gorge, was it? [Al] I think so. Yes. [Don] Yep yep.
13:60

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Where the tanks came through, yep. Where the tanks came through, yep.
14:02

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And we went down there, and by the time we got to the Gorge properly, there's a cutting through the Gorge. There was a And we went down there, and by the time we got to the Gorge properly, there's a cutting through the Gorge. There was a
14:10

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a river flowing there and you had to run over it. If you went in a vehicle, you'd have to splash through water. a river flowing there and you had to run over it. If you went in a vehicle, you'd have to splash through water.
14:16

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And I thought, we said this is a typical place where th-they gonna come through, if they come, no where else to cross the river. And I thought, we said this is a typical place where th-they gonna come through, if they come, no where else to cross the river.
14:23

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So we s- there was pine trees had been cut, there was a pine plantation there. So we s- there was pine trees had been cut, there was a pine plantation there.
14:28

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They'd cut down a lot of trees and they were in, logs were laid out, perfect cover, perfect little fortress. So we spread out along there. They'd cut down a lot of trees and they were in, logs were laid out, perfect cover, perfect little fortress. So we spread out along there.
14:39

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and and
14:41

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And we heard them. Tanks coming. The roar of the engines. And we heard them. Tanks coming. The roar of the engines.
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I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
14:49

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[Don] Why's that? [Albert] First off, yes we could hear the roar of the engines in the distance. [Don] Why's that? [Albert] First off, yes we could hear the roar of the engines in the distance.
14:55

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And then came the infantry. And then came the infantry.
14:58

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The forward Scouts, scattered, the same as we would, either side one out in the peak. We let them through. The forward Scouts, scattered, the same as we would, either side one out in the peak. We let them through.
15:06

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And then came a, a-at least a company, well scattered and the the officer with us, said And then came a, a-at least a company, well scattered and the the officer with us, said
15:15

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Open up. Open up.
15:16

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Knock 'em over we did. We bowled most of them over. Not all of them, and the others escaped of course, and then there was the roar of the tanks and the tanks came through with a smokescreen. Knock 'em over we did. We bowled most of them over. Not all of them, and the others escaped of course, and then there was the roar of the tanks and the tanks came through with a smokescreen.
15:28

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And that's when we decided we'd better pull out 'cause they knew we were there, we'd been shooting. So we moved back. We got to the truck and the tanks And that's when we decided we'd better pull out 'cause they knew we were there, we'd been shooting. So we moved back. We got to the truck and the tanks
15:36

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saw us get in and they opened up. Boom! I'll never forget it. Half the roadway came scattered all over the truck. saw us get in and they opened up. Boom! I'll never forget it. Half the roadway came scattered all over the truck.
15:46

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My brother Kel, got a splinter of shrapnel through his great coat, had ripped it through there, never touched him and we dragged him on. My brother Kel, got a splinter of shrapnel through his great coat, had ripped it through there, never touched him and we dragged him on.
15:56

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We got in and we said to the driver - Bang Bang bang on the roof - get going! Flat to the boards and I thought the tank was gaining on us. Gee they were fast. [Don] So these these were Germans and this is your first first exposure to German... [Al] Technology. [Don] Germany ar-army and German technology. [Al] Yes. We got in and we said to the driver - Bang Bang bang on the roof - get going! Flat to the boards and I thought the tank was gaining on us. Gee they were fast. [Don] So these these were Germans and this is your first first exposure to German... [Al] Technology. [Don] Germany ar-army and German technology. [Al] Yes.
16:14

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And, at the same time there was a smokescreens down okay knew that. We raced back along the road to where the batallion was, jumped off, raced to the company commander and told him what was happening. And, at the same time there was a smokescreens down okay knew that. We raced back along the road to where the batallion was, jumped off, raced to the company commander and told him what was happening.
16:25

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And that's when the, the artillery And that's when the, the artillery
16:29

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Opened up, they could see the tanks. Opened up, they could see the tanks.
16:32

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I believe they didn't get any. They fired three rounds, packed up and left. How could we take on tanks with rifles and bayonets? I believe they didn't get any. They fired three rounds, packed up and left. How could we take on tanks with rifles and bayonets?
16:41

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They got a bit closer. They got a bit closer.
16:43

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And we suffered a few casualties as I remember, and we were ordered to pull out. So we clambered onto the nearest truck. And we suffered a few casualties as I remember, and we were ordered to pull out. So we clambered onto the nearest truck.
16:52

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And would you believe the truck that most of us got onto? And would you believe the truck that most of us got onto?
16:56

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Ran off the road in his anxiety to get away. Got off the road, ran off the road, tumbled over and over. We're at the bottom of a, a gully. Ran off the road in his anxiety to get away. Got off the road, ran off the road, tumbled over and over. We're at the bottom of a, a gully.
17:05

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A poor bloke next to me, Bunny Evans. A poor bloke next to me, Bunny Evans.
17:08

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His head was crushed to snuff, smithereens. He was dead. His head was crushed to snuff, smithereens. He was dead.
17:13

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I got a bad back out of it, but I still managed to crawl out of the, the uh wreckage with the other boys, and along came a New Zealand truck. I got a bad back out of it, but I still managed to crawl out of the, the uh wreckage with the other boys, and along came a New Zealand truck.
17:22

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We didn't know at the time it was th-the cooks truck. We didn't know at the time it was th-the cooks truck.
17:26

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And on the back was this Maori. He'd opened a bottle uh And on the back was this Maori. He'd opened a bottle uh
17:31

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A case of beer, Australian beer. A case of beer, Australian beer.
17:34

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And all the way. And all the way.
17:37

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gurgle, gurgle, gurgle fling the bottle out. gurgle, gurgle, gurgle fling the bottle out.
17:40

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He he didn't feel a thing. Didn't worry about the German tanks, and uh we told the driver put your foot down the tanks is there. He says I can see 'em and that's how we got out of there. He he didn't feel a thing. Didn't worry about the German tanks, and uh we told the driver put your foot down the tanks is there. He says I can see 'em and that's how we got out of there.
17:53

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Now I lost Kel in that melee there, he was in another truck. You know the tanks were fi-firing and, make for the trucks. Now I lost Kel in that melee there, he was in another truck. You know the tanks were fi-firing and, make for the trucks.
18:03

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I' was a shemozzle. I' was a shemozzle.
18:05

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[Don] So you disengage from disengaged from the from the tanks. [Al] Yeah. [Don] And where did they uh where did they stop you and uh [Al] Well, we went down this road way. [Don] So you disengage from disengaged from the from the tanks. [Al] Yeah. [Don] And where did they uh where did they stop you and uh [Al] Well, we went down this road way.
18:15

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And that's when the Stukas appeared and uh they started stri- not the stri- wasn't Stukas then, they were ordinary bombers ?were they?, I remember they were long and black and they had a long tail. And the machine gunners had a whi-wonderful time, they ah And that's when the Stukas appeared and uh they started stri- not the stri- wasn't Stukas then, they were ordinary bombers ?were they?, I remember they were long and black and they had a long tail. And the machine gunners had a whi-wonderful time, they ah
18:33

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If they had a big target, they'd drop a bomb, but mostly they came down low, and fired their machine guns at 'em, so I said to the boys, we gotta shoot back. If they had a big target, they'd drop a bomb, but mostly they came down low, and fired their machine guns at 'em, so I said to the boys, we gotta shoot back.
18:43

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Know this, we might not knock 'em out we'll give them a bad time. So when we were in under shelter we'd fire back. Know this, we might not knock 'em out we'll give them a bad time. So when we were in under shelter we'd fire back.
18:50

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We knew we hit them but we didn't bring any down and um We knew we hit them but we didn't bring any down and um
18:55

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?? They were too big to miss, but ?? They were too big to miss, but
18:58

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they kept this up they kept this up
18:60

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all together. all together.
19:02

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I suppose it was three days before I rejoined the battalion. I suppose it was three days before I rejoined the battalion.
19:06

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At times when they'd said when they saw a truck, if you couldn't get to shelter in time, they'd try and bomb it. Sometimes they got them, sometimes they didn't. But we were lucky, At times when they'd said when they saw a truck, if you couldn't get to shelter in time, they'd try and bomb it. Sometimes they got them, sometimes they didn't. But we were lucky,
19:18

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We were never hit. We had few casualties in the other trucks. We helped with them and kept going South. We were never hit. We had few casualties in the other trucks. We helped with them and kept going South.
19:27

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And we got to the And we got to the
19:30

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Some Gorge wasn't it? [Don] I don't know. They withdrew you across the Thermop-Thermopylae Peninsula and. Some Gorge wasn't it? [Don] I don't know. They withdrew you across the Thermop-Thermopylae Peninsula and.
19:38

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[Al] Oh that's later on. [Don] Yeh, south of Larissa. [Al] Yeah [Al] Oh that's later on. [Don] Yeh, south of Larissa. [Al] Yeah
19:42

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Well, we ma- we caught up the battalion there. Well, we ma- we caught up the battalion there.
19:46

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Took us three days to get there. Took us three days to get there.
19:49

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And they said we're moving South. And they said we're moving South.
19:52

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To, as I say, we had no intelligence of what was happening. To, as I say, we had no intelligence of what was happening.
19:56

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And we moved South, on foot. And we moved South, on foot.
20:01

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Yes, we went across the Yes, we went across the
20:03

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Pass there Pass there
20:10

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We came out near a canal. [Don] Corinth Canal? [Al] That'd be it, yeah. We came out near a canal. [Don] Corinth Canal? [Al] That'd be it, yeah.
20:16

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Yeh, and we kept going South. Yeh, and we kept going South.
20:18

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They said, an' there was some trucks that'd assembled there that would you believe there all brand new trucks, Canadian Chevs They said, an' there was some trucks that'd assembled there that would you believe there all brand new trucks, Canadian Chevs
20:28

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The front wheel drive, the Bliss wagons they call them. The front wheel drive, the Bliss wagons they call them.
20:33

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F-Forward front wheel drive I think, or 4 wheel, and we had ?tile? to get get rid of them. F-Forward front wheel drive I think, or 4 wheel, and we had ?tile? to get get rid of them.
20:40

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Smash their windscreens, ah somebody hit on the idea of Smash their windscreens, ah somebody hit on the idea of
20:44

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Starting the Motors, err no, drain th-the oil. Starting the Motors, err no, drain th-the oil.
20:49

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And start the Motors and let them seize. Anyone with anything sharp slash tires, other blokes went around smashing windscreens. And start the Motors and let them seize. Anyone with anything sharp slash tires, other blokes went around smashing windscreens.
20:60

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All brand new whadda waste yeh. That's war. Awful waste. Brand spanking new. All brand new whadda waste yeh. That's war. Awful waste. Brand spanking new.
21:06

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So you're you're that you were taken down to So you're you're that you were taken down to
21:11

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[Donald] ?Obviously? somewhere on the coast in Greece. [Albert] Yeah, Kalamata. [Donald]  Kalamata? Back to Kalamata? [Albert] Yeah, we evacuated from Kala- Kalamata. [Donald] ?Obviously? somewhere on the coast in Greece. [Albert] Yeah, Kalamata. [Donald]  Kalamata? Back to Kalamata? [Albert] Yeah, we evacuated from Kala- Kalamata.
21:19

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Ah in the in the  Ah in the in the 
21:21

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Early hours of the morning, pitch black. Early hours of the morning, pitch black.
21:24

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Ah, a destroyer. Ah, a destroyer.
21:27

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Called the Hero, HMS Hero, came in, pulled alongside the Wharf. It was a Fisherman's Wharf, and we transferred on, and I can still see Called the Hero, HMS Hero, came in, pulled alongside the Wharf. It was a Fisherman's Wharf, and we transferred on, and I can still see
21:37

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this midshipman this midshipman
21:39

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Going round with a big mugs of tea. Hot beautiful hot sweet tea. Wonderful, heaven, saying right fellas orders from the captain. Stay where you are on deck. *banging table with each spoken word* Do not move. If too many of you move towards the sides we we could capsize, so he was so emphatic. Good young bloke. He brought back a second Cup of tea [laughing]. Going round with a big mugs of tea. Hot beautiful hot sweet tea. Wonderful, heaven, saying right fellas orders from the captain. Stay where you are on deck. *banging table with each spoken word* Do not move. If too many of you move towards the sides we we could capsize, so he was so emphatic. Good young bloke. He brought back a second Cup of tea [laughing].
22:04

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And we're down, and we moved out to sea, in the shadow of in the in the dark of course, pitch black. And we're down, and we moved out to sea, in the shadow of in the in the dark of course, pitch black.
22:13

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And we got along side they moved alongside a ship called the Dilwara and it had a hatch in the side which they opened. And we got along side they moved alongside a ship called the Dilwara and it had a hatch in the side which they opened.
22:20

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In the up and down of the swell we had to jump from the deck of the destroyer into the the troopship, the Dilwara, which we did, successfully. In the up and down of the swell we had to jump from the deck of the destroyer into the the troopship, the Dilwara, which we did, successfully.
22:31

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Bit of a worry, I thought if we jump when it goes up and this is going down, what's going to happen. But anyway, we all made it. I don't know I didn't see a soul miss. Bit of a worry, I thought if we jump when it goes up and this is going down, what's going to happen. But anyway, we all made it. I don't know I didn't see a soul miss.
22:40

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And ah And ah
22:43

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The ah, the Hero headed off, heard later on the, this lovely destroyer was sunk at, in Greece, ah off Crete. So much of the British Navy was lost there, even the ah the Gloucester that we came a-across on was sunk off Crete, trying to take people off. The ah, the Hero headed off, heard later on the, this lovely destroyer was sunk at, in Greece, ah off Crete. So much of the British Navy was lost there, even the ah the Gloucester that we came a-across on was sunk off Crete, trying to take people off.
23:02

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How wonderful. How wonderful.
23:05

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Well, ? you take your hat off. They don't don't give in easy, they're great. Anyway, we were on the Dilwara, we formed up in a convoy. It became light. We saw other ships, troopships join us, as soon there was a daybreak, then the Stukas came. Well, ? you take your hat off. They don't don't give in easy, they're great. Anyway, we were on the Dilwara, we formed up in a convoy. It became light. We saw other ships, troopships join us, as soon there was a daybreak, then the Stukas came.
23:22

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And from then on it was a continuous And from then on it was a continuous
23:26

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It seemed to us a continuous attack. I don't know how many attacks we had, but it seemed continuous. It seemed to us a continuous attack. I don't know how many attacks we had, but it seemed continuous.
23:32

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These divebombers screaming down These divebombers screaming down
23:35

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Ahh, I don't know whose idea it was, but we were told to go on deck with our Bren guns Ahh, I don't know whose idea it was, but we were told to go on deck with our Bren guns
23:42

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And fire as best we can And fire as best we can
23:46

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And allow for the these diving bombers, but just make it hot for them, which we did. And allow for the these diving bombers, but just make it hot for them, which we did.
23:52

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And would you believe? And would you believe?
23:54

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Later on, the captain of this Dilwara wrote a letter to us. They finally got to the battalion and he thanked us for saving his ship. He said because he's sure our fire put their aim off and distracted enough to save his ship, and I thought it was very good of him. Later on, the captain of this Dilwara wrote a letter to us. They finally got to the battalion and he thanked us for saving his ship. He said because he's sure our fire put their aim off and distracted enough to save his ship, and I thought it was very good of him.
24:12

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You don't expect praise, but we got it from him. You don't expect praise, but we got it from him.
24:15

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And as I say, it seemed continuous. And as I say, it seemed continuous.
24:19

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Wave after wave they kept coming back. Wave after wave they kept coming back.
24:23

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The next ship to us in the convoy the uh Costa Rica The next ship to us in the convoy the uh Costa Rica
24:27

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Was badly damaged and she, we all heard later, she headed for uh Crete. Was badly damaged and she, we all heard later, she headed for uh Crete.
24:32

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We were lifted out of the water with the sticker bombs. We were lifted out of the water with the sticker bombs.
24:36

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And I can still see the propeller spinning in the air. And apparently there was some damage done to the shaft and the bearings, and we had to reduce speed, and I thought this is it. And I can still see the propeller spinning in the air. And apparently there was some damage done to the shaft and the bearings, and we had to reduce speed, and I thought this is it.
24:47

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This is it. We can't get away. This is it. We can't get away.
24:50

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But do you know they missed us the rest of the time, so we made it back to Alexandria. But do you know they missed us the rest of the time, so we made it back to Alexandria.
24:56

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Which of course was like getting back to heaven; after all that dive bombing, and uh Which of course was like getting back to heaven; after all that dive bombing, and uh
25:05

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Yes, well, they took us out to uh, no they didn't Yes, well, they took us out to uh, no they didn't
25:10

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I think we're about pretty near the e- the Wharf. They must've had a railway line there, because we went straight back to Palestine. I think we're about pretty near the e- the Wharf. They must've had a railway line there, because we went straight back to Palestine.
25:18

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?Can? remember, can you remember, ah, just ?Can? remember, can you remember, ah, just
25:22

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reasonably accurately how long your unit spent in Greece from arrival to em- re embarkation back to evacuation back to... [Al] I I I can't recall the dates but I suppose a matter of two or three weeks, at the most. [Don] Two or three weeks. reasonably accurately how long your unit spent in Greece from arrival to em- re embarkation back to evacuation back to... [Al] I I I can't recall the dates but I suppose a matter of two or three weeks, at the most. [Don] Two or three weeks.
25:38

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[Don] So... [Al] We could find out that. [Don] And most and most Australian units would of, ah, endured the same time in Greece. [Al] Yeah. [Don] So it wasn't a lot of time, I mean there would be ah discrepancies, but so you didn't spend a lot of time there, but [Al] No a lot of fellas were left behind that couldn't get away. Taken prisoner of war [Don] Yep. [Al] and uh we left a lot behind a lot of ah [Don] So... [Al] We could find out that. [Don] And most and most Australian units would of, ah, endured the same time in Greece. [Al] Yeah. [Don] So it wasn't a lot of time, I mean there would be ah discrepancies, but so you didn't spend a lot of time there, but [Al] No a lot of fellas were left behind that couldn't get away. Taken prisoner of war [Don] Yep. [Al] and uh we left a lot behind a lot of ah
26:02

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Badly wounded and uh ?beds?, you know. Sick uh, soldiers. Badly wounded and uh ?beds?, you know. Sick uh, soldiers.
26:07

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I believe the Germans ah didn't mollycoddle them, but they didn't ah abuse them either. I believe the Germans ah didn't mollycoddle them, but they didn't ah abuse them either.
26:15

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So it's quite a hectic three weeks. So it's quite a hectic three weeks.
26:17

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It was a ridiculous campaign. Whoever thought of it deserves a kick. It was a ridiculous campaign. Whoever thought of it deserves a kick.
26:23

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Because, we had no real intelligence, we weren't equiped adequately for the might of the German army. Because, we had no real intelligence, we weren't equiped adequately for the might of the German army.
26:32

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And ah And ah
26:34

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We were minnows in a in an ocean and ah we weren't up to it. We were minnows in a in an ocean and ah we weren't up to it.
26:40

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[Don] Yeah, sorry go on. [Al] It's disappointing to know that we were committed and so badly and so poorly supported. [Don] Yeah, sorry go on. [Al] It's disappointing to know that we were committed and so badly and so poorly supported.
26:49

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'Cause I never saw an aircraft there, none of ours. 'Cause I never saw an aircraft there, none of ours.
26:53

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And I d-, if there was any tanks. And I d-, if there was any tanks.
26:56

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Any armored vehicles, we didn't see them. Any armored vehicles, we didn't see them.
27:00

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OK, just talking about that you talked about the might of the German army now, you fought the Italians in the Middle East at Bardia and ah, and ah Tobruk. What was your uh impressions? Albeit short sharp action with the Germans, what was your impressions and uh comparisons to the Italians? OK, just talking about that you talked about the might of the German army now, you fought the Italians in the Middle East at Bardia and ah, and ah Tobruk. What was your uh impressions? Albeit short sharp action with the Germans, what was your impressions and uh comparisons to the Italians?
27:19

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Well, you had to admire them. Well, you had to admire them.
27:21

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Here they have the best equipment and they certainly know how to use it. Here they have the best equipment and they certainly know how to use it.
27:27

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And uh And uh
27:28

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they pressed home in attack. Now despite all the stuff we threw at those Stukas, and we had a Navy escort as well, and they were filling the sky with flak. they pressed home in attack. Now despite all the stuff we threw at those Stukas, and we had a Navy escort as well, and they were filling the sky with flak.
27:39

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And I think they shot down some, but I don't know. And I think they shot down some, but I don't know.
27:43

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Despite all that, they pressed home every attack. You have to admire their sheer courage and professionalism. Ya' can't do anything else, and I can still remember the words of our first Colonel. Despite all that, they pressed home every attack. You have to admire their sheer courage and professionalism. Ya' can't do anything else, and I can still remember the words of our first Colonel.
27:55

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When we ah came out of the desert. When we ah came out of the desert.
27:59

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He said, when you meet the Germans you'll realize they're a first class enemy, and of course his words were so true. He said, when you meet the Germans you'll realize they're a first class enemy, and of course his words were so true.
28:07

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First class is the only word. First class is the only word.
28:10

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Take you take you back to ah when the tanks, when you had the engagement with the German tanks. Take you take you back to ah when the tanks, when you had the engagement with the German tanks.
28:18

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[Donald] The German tanks compared to uh the tanks that the Australian Army used which were British most mostly, and the Italian tanks umm give me give me uh paint me a picture of the comparisons between the.. [Albert] Well... [Donald] ...the tanks. [Albert] Well n' there was nearly panic when we heard the roar of the engines and they came on so quickly. [Donald] The German tanks compared to uh the tanks that the Australian Army used which were British most mostly, and the Italian tanks umm give me give me uh paint me a picture of the comparisons between the.. [Albert] Well... [Donald] ...the tanks. [Albert] Well n' there was nearly panic when we heard the roar of the engines and they came on so quickly.
28:40

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They were armed with a big cannon in the front as well as machine guns. They were armed with a big cannon in the front as well as machine guns.
28:44

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And could they use them. And could they use them.
28:46

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They were very, very good. They were very, very good.
28:48

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And they came through that smoke screen that they laid down. You know it was like ghosts. Frightening honestly, it uh, And they came through that smoke screen that they laid down. You know it was like ghosts. Frightening honestly, it uh,
28:58

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And then the Stukas backed 'em up. No, they a- they knew what they were about compared to us. We just didn't know it was happening, and were never told. I didn't see a map, never saw a thing, just didn't know it was happening. [Don] So you obviously got the impression ah, again compared to the Italians umm that these guys really know their business. [Al] Know their business. Yep, they really did. [Don] And were up against a [Al] Yeah. [Don] A different type of enemy here. [Al] Yep. And then the Stukas backed 'em up. No, they a- they knew what they were about compared to us. We just didn't know it was happening, and were never told. I didn't see a map, never saw a thing, just didn't know it was happening. [Don] So you obviously got the impression ah, again compared to the Italians umm that these guys really know their business. [Al] Know their business. Yep, they really did. [Don] And were up against a [Al] Yeah. [Don] A different type of enemy here. [Al] Yep.
29:26

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[Don] Now umm we're back in we're back in Palestine, and I understand your next theater of operations was uh in Syria and Lebanon. [Al] Didn't go straight away, we had a break. [Don] Now umm we're back in we're back in Palestine, and I understand your next theater of operations was uh in Syria and Lebanon. [Al] Didn't go straight away, we had a break.
29:39

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[Don] I think we might think we might have a break now and we'll get onto the Syria Lebanon campaign after lunch. [Albert] Oh okay, yep. [Don] I think we might think we might have a break now and we'll get onto the Syria Lebanon campaign after lunch. [Albert] Oh okay, yep.