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[Prue] This is an interview with Mr. Cleaver Bunton by Prue Patton at his Dean St. home in Albury on the 19th of January 1984. [Prue] This is an interview with Mr. Cleaver Bunton by Prue Patton at his Dean St. home in Albury on the 19th of January 1984.
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[Prue] Mr. Banton, who are your parents and where do they come from? [Prue] Mr. Banton, who are your parents and where do they come from?
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[Cleaver] My father was Ernest Edward Bunton. He was born in Bethanga and then came to Albury to live. My mother was Matilda Caroline Lewis who lived in Albury. [Cleaver] My father was Ernest Edward Bunton. He was born in Bethanga and then came to Albury to live. My mother was Matilda Caroline Lewis who lived in Albury.
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[Prue] And we're abouts did you- were you born? [Cleaver] I was born in a little cottage in George Street in Albury. [Prue] And what year was that? [Prue] And we're abouts did you- were you born? [Cleaver] I was born in a little cottage in George Street in Albury. [Prue] And what year was that?
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[Cleaver] In 1902. [Cleaver] In 1902.
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[Prue] And what are your earliest memories of this house? [Prue] And what are your earliest memories of this house?
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[Cleaver] It was a, small little cottage. [Cleaver] It was a, small little cottage.
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[Cleaver] One of my greatest memories is that on the front veranda, we have the biggest Daphne Bush that you could ever see. Beautiful Daphne Bush. [Cleaver] One of my greatest memories is that on the front veranda, we have the biggest Daphne Bush that you could ever see. Beautiful Daphne Bush.
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[Cleaver] We had a neighbor who would sing from daylight till dawn. [Cleaver] We had a neighbor who would sing from daylight till dawn.
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[Cleaver] Never stop singing this, this lady. [Cleaver] Never stop singing this, this lady.
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[Prue] What was the house made of? Was it a brick one or was it timber? [Cleaver] Yes.It was. It was a brick, a brick home. It's still in existence and still in good condition. [Prue] What was the house made of? Was it a brick one or was it timber? [Cleaver] Yes.It was. It was a brick, a brick home. It's still in existence and still in good condition.
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[Cleaver] And it would have been built. [Cleaver] And it would have been built.
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[Cleaver] Perhaps 1880 or 1880 to 1890? [Cleaver] Perhaps 1880 or 1880 to 1890?
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[Prue] And how old were you when you moved from there? [Prue] And how old were you when you moved from there?
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[Cleaver] I would have been about 17. [Cleaver] I would have been about 17.
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[Cleaver] 16 or 17 when we moved to Victoria Street opposite the Drill Hall. [Cleaver] 16 or 17 when we moved to Victoria Street opposite the Drill Hall.
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[Cleaver] I've got a vivid recollection about that particular building too. I was one of the few people in Australia who suffered bubonic plague and our home was quarantined for a matter of six months. [Cleaver] I've got a vivid recollection about that particular building too. I was one of the few people in Australia who suffered bubonic plague and our home was quarantined for a matter of six months.
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[Cleaver]We had the red flags up. I was fortunate enough to get over it, but when I did get over it, I was as bald as a badger. I did not have a hair in my head. [Cleaver]We had the red flags up. I was fortunate enough to get over it, but when I did get over it, I was as bald as a badger. I did not have a hair in my head.
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[Cleaver]And following that, the hair started to grow again and I had a beautiful head of black hair. Now that black hair is gone and I've got the grey top that you see. [Prue] I think that a lot of people know the name Bubonic Plague but know very little about it. And what what besides losing your hair, does it involve? [Cleaver] I don't know. [Cleaver]And following that, the hair started to grow again and I had a beautiful head of black hair. Now that black hair is gone and I've got the grey top that you see. [Prue] I think that a lot of people know the name Bubonic Plague but know very little about it. And what what besides losing your hair, does it involve? [Cleaver] I don't know.
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[Cleaver] I was delirious for. [Cleaver] I was delirious for.
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[Cleaver]The four months. [Cleaver]The four months.
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And I understand that very, very few people survived. And I understand that very, very few people survived.
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[Prue] Were there other people in Albury who also had it? [Cleaver] No, I was the only person in Albury that I'm aware of. [Prue] Were there other people in Albury who also had it? [Cleaver] No, I was the only person in Albury that I'm aware of.
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[Prue] How do you think you caught it? [Cleaver] I've got no idea. [Prue] How do you think you caught it? [Cleaver] I've got no idea.
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[Prue] Must have been incredible experience. [Prue] Must have been incredible experience.
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[Prue] I thought that sort of thing is only in history books, Bubonic Plague. [Cleaver] I took up the plate in the church shortly after I recovered, still bald headed, and I used to my appearance, used to frighten the children. [Prue] I thought that sort of thing is only in history books, Bubonic Plague. [Cleaver] I took up the plate in the church shortly after I recovered, still bald headed, and I used to my appearance, used to frighten the children.
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Yes. [Laughter] [Prue] And how many brothers and sisters did you have? [Cleaver] I have one, one sister, the eldest in the family. Yes. [Laughter] [Prue] And how many brothers and sisters did you have? [Cleaver] I have one, one sister, the eldest in the family.
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And there were four boys. Hayden has passed on, of course. He was killed in a road accident about. And there were four boys. Hayden has passed on, of course. He was killed in a road accident about.
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16 and 17 years ago. 16 and 17 years ago.
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[Prue] And what are your early memories of school? Where did you go to school? [Prue] And what are your early memories of school? Where did you go to school?
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[Cleaver]I went to school. [Cleaver]I went to school.
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[Clever]The Albury Public School. [Clever]The Albury Public School.
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[Clever]Starting at the age of five years. [Clever]Starting at the age of five years.
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[Clever]I remember the first day I went to school, I was walking along dragging a school bag behind me and I went slap bang into a telegraph post in Olive St., in front of a house that used to be known as Tara, which is now it's. It has some very, very nice development on it now. [Clever]I remember the first day I went to school, I was walking along dragging a school bag behind me and I went slap bang into a telegraph post in Olive St., in front of a house that used to be known as Tara, which is now it's. It has some very, very nice development on it now.
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[Cleaver]Opposite the Cedars. [Cleaver]Opposite the Cedars.
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[Cleaver]We used to buy - going to school in those days - [Cleaver]We used to buy - going to school in those days -
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[Cleaver]We would buy pennies worth of bruised fruit. [Cleaver]We would buy pennies worth of bruised fruit.
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At Arnold's on the way on the way to... on the way to school. At Arnold's on the way on the way to... on the way to school.
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I left school at the age of 13. I left school at the age of 13.
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Much of the disgust of my mother. Much of the disgust of my mother.
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What happened was that a friend of mine the next couple of doors from my home in George St. What happened was that a friend of mine the next couple of doors from my home in George St.
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Told me that I can get a job. Told me that I can get a job.
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with Mr. Nagle, a solicitor. with Mr. Nagle, a solicitor.
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He had just started there about two months before. He had just started there about two months before.
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So I waited to see my mother and father. My mother was very much opposed to me leaving school at the age of 13. So I waited to see my mother and father. My mother was very much opposed to me leaving school at the age of 13.
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I appeal to my father and assured them that I would attend evening continuation school. I appeal to my father and assured them that I would attend evening continuation school.
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My father prevailed on my mother. My father prevailed on my mother.
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On the assurance that I keep my promise. On the assurance that I keep my promise.
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To allow me to go and see Mr. Nagle, which I did that night. To allow me to go and see Mr. Nagle, which I did that night.
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And I started work next morning. And I started work next morning.
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I had 4 1/2 years in legal solicitors office and that 4 1/2 years in my opinion I had 4 1/2 years in legal solicitors office and that 4 1/2 years in my opinion
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Verify
was better instruction than I would have got 20 years of school, because I had the practical as well as the economic position well and truly under underway. [Prue] Do you remember what your wages were then? [Cleaver] Yes, I started on seven and six [inaudible] a week. I remained there for 4 1/2 years. was better instruction than I would have got 20 years of school, because I had the practical as well as the economic position well and truly under underway. [Prue] Do you remember what your wages were then? [Cleaver] Yes, I started on seven and six [inaudible] a week. I remained there for 4 1/2 years.
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And I finished up getting 35 shillings a week. And I finished up getting 35 shillings a week.
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[Prue] And what did the work involve? [Prue] And what did the work involve?
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My work there was I started off as the junior office boy. It wasn't long before I was doing taxation work. My work there was I started off as the junior office boy. It wasn't long before I was doing taxation work.
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Doing the [Pause] accounting side of that firm I had at that particular time. Doing the [Pause] accounting side of that firm I had at that particular time.
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Made arrangements to go to Evening Continuation School, which I did, and then shortly after that I undertook a course of accountancy with Hemingway and Robertson. Made arrangements to go to Evening Continuation School, which I did, and then shortly after that I undertook a course of accountancy with Hemingway and Robertson.
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And, uh. And, uh.
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[Prue] You started off your accountancy within... and where were the evening continuation classes held? [Cleaver] They were held in the public- in the primary public school which is now the on the corner of David and Smollett St. in the old public school. [Prue] You started off your accountancy within... and where were the evening continuation classes held? [Cleaver] They were held in the public- in the primary public school which is now the on the corner of David and Smollett St. in the old public school.
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I had a, I had a,
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A rather successful career, although it is only I left school at 13. A rather successful career, although it is only I left school at 13.
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And I had no trouble to do fairly well in the examinations which were held from year to year then, you know, within the school of course, and uh. And I had no trouble to do fairly well in the examinations which were held from year to year then, you know, within the school of course, and uh.
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[Prue[ This is when you were- [Cleaver] at the age at the age of 17 1/2 when I left Mr. Nagle employee. It was something that appealed to me greatly when I went there 4 1/2 years before the time I left. [Prue[ This is when you were- [Cleaver] at the age at the age of 17 1/2 when I left Mr. Nagle employee. It was something that appealed to me greatly when I went there 4 1/2 years before the time I left.
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Every employee was a male. Every employee. I was one of eight males. When I left, Every employee was a male. Every employee. I was one of eight males. When I left,
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I was the last male. I was the last male.
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Women came in, the girls came into it at that particular time and it was my privilege up to a point to train them. I was a self- self-taught typist and uh, my sister who was a shorthand writer assisted me in connection with shorthand and I wrote shorthand... and typing. The shorthand was a mixture of Pitmans and Bunton. Women came in, the girls came into it at that particular time and it was my privilege up to a point to train them. I was a self- self-taught typist and uh, my sister who was a shorthand writer assisted me in connection with shorthand and I wrote shorthand... and typing. The shorthand was a mixture of Pitmans and Bunton.
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But I got there, and I had no difficulty in translating the other girl's shorthand when they couldn't translate it at times. But I got there, and I had no difficulty in translating the other girl's shorthand when they couldn't translate it at times.
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[Prue] Where did you learn shorthand? [Cleaver] I learned shorthand in my own home with my sister. [Prue] Where did you learn shorthand? [Cleaver] I learned shorthand in my own home with my sister.
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[Prue] Where did she learn it? [Prue] Where did she learn it?
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[Cleaver] I don't know, to be truthful. Did she go to evening continuation classes with that sort of thing? [Cleaver] There was no, there was no, there was no tech college as such in those days. [Cleaver] I don't know, to be truthful. Did she go to evening continuation classes with that sort of thing? [Cleaver] There was no, there was no, there was no tech college as such in those days.
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She would have had her, she would have had her... shorthand, I would think, perhaps from a correspondence school, I don't know, but she wrote shorthand very efficiently. She worked at the New Zealand Loan, in Albury. She would have had her, she would have had her... shorthand, I would think, perhaps from a correspondence school, I don't know, but she wrote shorthand very efficiently. She worked at the New Zealand Loan, in Albury.
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[Prue] And how many other people would have been at these evening continuation classes? [Prue] And how many other people would have been at these evening continuation classes?
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[Cleaver]Well, I would imagine it would have been class of about 30. [Cleaver]Well, I would imagine it would have been class of about 30.
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[Prue] What subjects did you study the same as at a high school? [Prue] What subjects did you study the same as at a high school?
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[Cleaver] It was just a... an advanced. [Cleaver] It was just a... an advanced.
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Reading, Writing, arithmetic, Reading, Writing, arithmetic,
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geography and history - It was just- a it was just a follow on from the... geography and history - It was just- a it was just a follow on from the...
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...from the everyday school. ...from the everyday school.
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No doubt the authorities would have thought that people would have gone the evening continuation school when a bit further advanced than I was when I left. No doubt the authorities would have thought that people would have gone the evening continuation school when a bit further advanced than I was when I left.
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[Prue] Was there an exam that you set for at the end of the evening continuation school? [Cleaver] No. [Prue] Was there an exam that you set for at the end of the evening continuation school? [Cleaver] No.
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[Prue] And how many years did you go there? [Cleaver]I think about two years. [Prue] And how many years did you go there? [Cleaver]I think about two years.
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[Prue] And why? Why did you decide to stop after that? [Prue] And why? Why did you decide to stop after that?
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I stopped because my work became so involved with Mr. Nagle. I used to go to work very, very early in the morning and often work late at night. I stopped because my work became so involved with Mr. Nagle. I used to go to work very, very early in the morning and often work late at night.
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[Prue] If you had gone on with these evening classes, would there have been an exam that you could have set for which would have given you a qualification? [Cleaver]No, I don't think so. [Prue] If you had gone on with these evening classes, would there have been an exam that you could have set for which would have given you a qualification? [Cleaver]No, I don't think so.
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I left Mr. Nagle because at that particular time there's a real boom in real estate. I left Mr. Nagle because at that particular time there's a real boom in real estate.
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And I could see coming through the solicitor's office the number of contracts and I said to myself I'd like to be in on this. And I could see coming through the solicitor's office the number of contracts and I said to myself I'd like to be in on this.
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So. So.
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I left, as I told you, at 35 shillings a week. I left, as I told you, at 35 shillings a week.
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And for my start. And for my start.
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It was in the old biscuit factory which is- was on the site which is now Coles supermarket in Olive St. It was in the old biscuit factory which is- was on the site which is now Coles supermarket in Olive St.
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This biscuit factory was erected. This biscuit factory was erected.
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On the laneway between the theatre and Coles. What was the theatre? It's an Venture. [Prue] That was the Hoyt's theatre. It was Hoyt's theatre. And now Venture store. On the laneway between the theatre and Coles. What was the theatre? It's an Venture. [Prue] That was the Hoyt's theatre. It was Hoyt's theatre. And now Venture store.
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And that's where I started. And that's where I started.
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An office, and at that particular time the old biscuit factory - which had been Wilkinson's printing factory following the biscuit factory days - and at that time it became Mr. Graham Brougham's furniture warehouse. He was a French polisher and second hand furniture dealer. An office, and at that particular time the old biscuit factory - which had been Wilkinson's printing factory following the biscuit factory days - and at that time it became Mr. Graham Brougham's furniture warehouse. He was a French polisher and second hand furniture dealer.
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And he made arrangements with me to look after his And he made arrangements with me to look after his
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office or his business whilst he was away and he said he'd look after mine whilst I was away and I set up as a secretary agent. office or his business whilst he was away and he said he'd look after mine whilst I was away and I set up as a secretary agent.
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I got a couple of little, I got a couple of little,
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appointments. I got some- two or three secretary ships and I had a couple little bookkeeping jobs, but things did not go very well for me in the early days. My start was with a bond of 10 pounds, which my sister gave me. I opened up an account in the old Union Bank. I just about used up that 10 pounds. appointments. I got some- two or three secretary ships and I had a couple little bookkeeping jobs, but things did not go very well for me in the early days. My start was with a bond of 10 pounds, which my sister gave me. I opened up an account in the old Union Bank. I just about used up that 10 pounds.
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after about 8 weeks. after about 8 weeks.
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And I was on the verge of giving it some other thought to the matter and in one week I sold 5 houses. And I was on the verge of giving it some other thought to the matter and in one week I sold 5 houses.
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I got a commission of about £500 out of those five houses. I got a commission of about £500 out of those five houses.
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Mr. Charlie Nagle, the brother of  V Flood Nagel, came to me at the end of that particular week. Mr. Charlie Nagle, the brother of  V Flood Nagel, came to me at the end of that particular week.
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And he said the boss can't do without you. He wants your back, he's prepared to pay you [Clock chimes in background] 8 pounds a week, a fortune in those days. And I said, well, unfortunately you're a week too late. I wouldn't call the king my uncle at the moment, having been successful in in selling that real estate. And he said the boss can't do without you. He wants your back, he's prepared to pay you [Clock chimes in background] 8 pounds a week, a fortune in those days. And I said, well, unfortunately you're a week too late. I wouldn't call the king my uncle at the moment, having been successful in in selling that real estate.
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Well then, I qualified, Well then, I qualified,
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some years after and I gave away the agency business and set up as a public accountant. I may have made a mistake in doing that, because. some years after and I gave away the agency business and set up as a public accountant. I may have made a mistake in doing that, because.
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I have passed through some very, very busy periods in real estate. I have passed through some very, very busy periods in real estate.
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And I could have got my share And I could have got my share
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of that business throughout when there are only two or three estate agents in Albury, not the 30 or 40 that there are today. of that business throughout when there are only two or three estate agents in Albury, not the 30 or 40 that there are today.
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[Prue] That's right. So during all this time you must have been very busy with your business, but you still were very, a very keen sportsman. [Cleaver] Yes, I was very busy. I, I had a set, a set routine. I swam at Noreuil Park for a period of 40 years. [Prue] That's right. So during all this time you must have been very busy with your business, but you still were very, a very keen sportsman. [Cleaver] Yes, I was very busy. I, I had a set, a set routine. I swam at Noreuil Park for a period of 40 years.
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For nine months of the year you can set your watch by me passing by the hospital, walking down to Noreuil Park for the morning swim. There were two or three others joined in with me later in the year. They didn't start as early as I did and we used to have some wrestling bouts and some boxing bouts and some horse riding down at Noreuil Park and, ur For nine months of the year you can set your watch by me passing by the hospital, walking down to Noreuil Park for the morning swim. There were two or three others joined in with me later in the year. They didn't start as early as I did and we used to have some wrestling bouts and some boxing bouts and some horse riding down at Noreuil Park and, ur
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I attended when I went to work with Mr. Nagle. I attended when I went to work with Mr. Nagle.
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I told him that I was anxious to continue playing football and you needed to be in good condition. I told him that I was anxious to continue playing football and you needed to be in good condition.
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And I told him that I be prepared to start work very early in the morning if I could get off at 4:00 on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons for football training. Not only did he say, yes, I'd like you to do that, but he said I'll come down and watch you. And he became very interested in in football and very interested in the lad who was working for him on that very score. And I told him that I be prepared to start work very early in the morning if I could get off at 4:00 on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons for football training. Not only did he say, yes, I'd like you to do that, but he said I'll come down and watch you. And he became very interested in in football and very interested in the lad who was working for him on that very score.
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I was a keen tennis player, I was a keen cricketer and I, thought there was a place for everything. I was a keen tennis player, I was a keen cricketer and I, thought there was a place for everything.
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Verify
I'm a non-smoker, I'm a non drinker, and that was all brought about due to the fact that I was so very, very keen to give myself a chance to succeed in my chosen sporting adventures and so on. And uh, I played football, tennis, cricket entirely on a number of the bases throughout the whole of my career. I'm a non-smoker, I'm a non drinker, and that was all brought about due to the fact that I was so very, very keen to give myself a chance to succeed in my chosen sporting adventures and so on. And uh, I played football, tennis, cricket entirely on a number of the bases throughout the whole of my career.
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And unfortunately that position has changed today and we find that professionalism has taken over and the sporting attitude. And unfortunately that position has changed today and we find that professionalism has taken over and the sporting attitude.
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I think has diminished. I think has diminished.
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[Prue] And you've also held numerous positions on these sporting bodies, administrative positions. [Prue] And you've also held numerous positions on these sporting bodies, administrative positions.
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[Cleaver]Yes. [Cleaver]Yes.
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Secretary of the Albury Football Club- or first of all. Secretary of the Albury Football Club- or first of all.
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I was the founder of a Saturday morning boys football competition. I was the founder of it. We had six teams. I played with the rosettes in those days. I was the founder of a Saturday morning boys football competition. I was the founder of it. We had six teams. I played with the rosettes in those days.
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We carted our goal posts from ground to ground on Saturday mornings, and then on- on Saturday afternoons, I'd go to the sports ground and I've got vivid recollections of what used to happen. We carted our goal posts from ground to ground on Saturday mornings, and then on- on Saturday afternoons, I'd go to the sports ground and I've got vivid recollections of what used to happen.
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I'd always make sure that mother had I'd always make sure that mother had
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sufficient black lead in the home because this black lead used to polish the stove with it or clean the stove with this black lead and it'll be covered with a sufficient black lead in the home because this black lead used to polish the stove with it or clean the stove with this black lead and it'll be covered with a
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A yellow and black paper. A yellow and black paper.
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And in order that I could have the Albury Football Club colours in my lapel and my coat, I used to take a bit of this yellow and black paper and fit it in here. So I played football in the mornings. I'm, I'm now speaking as a lad of 11 years of age, before I started work of course. And in the, afternoons we go to the sports ground. And in order that I could have the Albury Football Club colours in my lapel and my coat, I used to take a bit of this yellow and black paper and fit it in here. So I played football in the mornings. I'm, I'm now speaking as a lad of 11 years of age, before I started work of course. And in the, afternoons we go to the sports ground.
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And directly behind the northern goal posts on the Albury Sports Ground was a Mulberry tree. And directly behind the northern goal posts on the Albury Sports Ground was a Mulberry tree.
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And the lads used to get up in this Mulberry tree and it'll be shaking with the weight of the boys on it and the limbs going from place to place. And we'll be saying "go on Albury, go on Albury". And I, I suppose the the crowning glory of my football career could have happened then, when there was a grand final match between Albury and Rutherglen. And the lads used to get up in this Mulberry tree and it'll be shaking with the weight of the boys on it and the limbs going from place to place. And we'll be saying "go on Albury, go on Albury". And I, I suppose the the crowning glory of my football career could have happened then, when there was a grand final match between Albury and Rutherglen.
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The captain of the Albury Club of the day was a player named Adamson. He was a champion player and an excellent place kick. The captain of the Albury Club of the day was a player named Adamson. He was a champion player and an excellent place kick.
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He marked the ball and no sooner had he marked the ball than the final bell rang. He marked the ball and no sooner had he marked the ball than the final bell rang.
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Albury at that stage were five points behind Rutherglen, the grand final. He put the ball on the ground. He had a kick, you know, because he'd mark the ball just before the bell. Albury at that stage were five points behind Rutherglen, the grand final. He put the ball on the ground. He had a kick, you know, because he'd mark the ball just before the bell.
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He put the ball - a place kick -  He put the ball - a place kick - 
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And went fair through the center of the goal posts. And it was my privilege to mark that ball. And I marked that ball setting up in the goal posts. The umpire came along to collect the ball and I appealed to him to let me have the ball. And he said, look, you're entitled to the ball as I see it, but I can't let you have it. But if you come along with me, I'll see if I can get the- the officials to let you have it. And sure enough, that happened. And went fair through the center of the goal posts. And it was my privilege to mark that ball. And I marked that ball setting up in the goal posts. The umpire came along to collect the ball and I appealed to him to let me have the ball. And he said, look, you're entitled to the ball as I see it, but I can't let you have it. But if you come along with me, I'll see if I can get the- the officials to let you have it. And sure enough, that happened.
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I collected that ball and that's one, one of the [Laughter] highlights of my sporting career and yet I wasn't playing in that match. [Prue] Have you still got the ball? No, I gave the ball away. I gave the ball away when I became the coach of the Albury High School, I, I presented them with that ball. I made another presentation of football. I collected that ball and that's one, one of the [Laughter] highlights of my sporting career and yet I wasn't playing in that match. [Prue] Have you still got the ball? No, I gave the ball away. I gave the ball away when I became the coach of the Albury High School, I, I presented them with that ball. I made another presentation of football.
20:54
As as part of. As as part of.
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The Echuca centenary celebrations. I made a suggestion to the Ovens and Murray League that we as a Football League, as a leading country league should. The Echuca centenary celebrations. I made a suggestion to the Ovens and Murray League that we as a Football League, as a leading country league should.
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Form a gesture for the to commemorate the Echuca centenary. Form a gesture for the to commemorate the Echuca centenary.
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And the Ovens and Murray League provided a football team to play the Bendigo League, of which Echuca was a member, and we played the Bendigo League. And the Ovens and Murray League provided a football team to play the Bendigo League, of which Echuca was a member, and we played the Bendigo League.
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At Echuca, At Echuca,
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we won the match by a point or two, having been three or four goals behind a three quarter time and the, we won the match by a point or two, having been three or four goals behind a three quarter time and the,
21:47
the Ovens and Murray Club presented me. The Ovens and Murray League presented me with the football that was used then and that was mounted. It contained the names of all the players who took part in the in the match and I present. I have presented that to the Albury Football Club. the Ovens and Murray Club presented me. The Ovens and Murray League presented me with the football that was used then and that was mounted. It contained the names of all the players who took part in the in the match and I present. I have presented that to the Albury Football Club.
22:08
[Prue] And as well as being so heavily involved with sport, you're also involved with your church. [Prue] And as well as being so heavily involved with sport, you're also involved with your church.
22:15
[Cleaver] Yes, I. [Cleaver] Yes, I.
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I was Sunday School Superintendent, member of the choir. [Prue] And which church was this? [Cleaver] The Methodist Church And I? I was Sunday School Superintendent, member of the choir. [Prue] And which church was this? [Cleaver] The Methodist Church And I?
22:35
[Prue] Being Superintendent of the Sunday School must have been quite a big job. How many children would have been at the Sunday school? [Cleaver]I suppose it would have been about, [Prue] Being Superintendent of the Sunday School must have been quite a big job. How many children would have been at the Sunday school? [Cleaver]I suppose it would have been about,
22:49
50 or 60 I would think. 50 or 60 I would think.
22:53
Yes, there'll be. There were about four classes. [Prue]There was a church hall built by the stage. Yes, there'll be. There were about four classes. [Prue]There was a church hall built by the stage.
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It would be Saint David's Church, isn't it? [Cleaver] No, it was the It would be Saint David's Church, isn't it? [Cleaver] No, it was the
23:06
the hall was on the corner of Olive and Swift Street, where it now is. It's since been altered a bit and has been extended considerably. the hall was on the corner of Olive and Swift Street, where it now is. It's since been altered a bit and has been extended considerably.
23:17
But they there was always that hall there during those days. That would have been in the- that would have been in the 1920s, 30s. But they there was always that hall there during those days. That would have been in the- that would have been in the 1920s, 30s.
23:28
[Prue] As church halls came to have a big part to play in the life of Albury. [Prue] As church halls came to have a big part to play in the life of Albury.
23:33
[Cleaver]Yes. [Cleaver]Yes.
23:36
[Prue] A lot of functions were held there, a lot of weddings, meetings. [Cleaver] Yes, that that is so. [Prue] A lot of functions were held there, a lot of weddings, meetings. [Cleaver] Yes, that that is so.
23:44
[Prue] The church was more, [Prue] The church was more,
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A part of people's lives then, than today. A part of people's lives then, than today.
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People used to gather there more. People used to gather there more.
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Than they do today. [Cleaver]Yes, I think, I think there was a- on a pro rata basis of population. I think there was a greater appreciation towards church life in the earlier days than what there is today. Than they do today. [Cleaver]Yes, I think, I think there was a- on a pro rata basis of population. I think there was a greater appreciation towards church life in the earlier days than what there is today.
24:15
There are so many counter factions have been put up that way today compared with that day, people have got an entirely different outlook on life, I think, to what they had in the olden days. There are so many counter factions have been put up that way today compared with that day, people have got an entirely different outlook on life, I think, to what they had in the olden days.
24:30
People today are not prepared to adopt the simple form of living that the people in the olden days did, and I think that applies in so many respects. People today are not prepared to adopt the simple form of living that the people in the olden days did, and I think that applies in so many respects.
24:42
[Prue] There are a number of different churches in Albury. How did they, how did they get on with each other? Was there, was there any bigotry at all between the Protestant and the Catholic churches that you remember? [Prue] There are a number of different churches in Albury. How did they, how did they get on with each other? Was there, was there any bigotry at all between the Protestant and the Catholic churches that you remember?
24:56
[Cleaver] There was a - [Cleaver] There was a -
25:00
let me put it this way - let me put it this way -
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one of the greatest things that have happened in connection with modern society. one of the greatest things that have happened in connection with modern society.
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is that there is not the bigotry today that did exist at the beginning of this century. is that there is not the bigotry today that did exist at the beginning of this century.
25:19
Now there has been a steady improvement in that way of thinking and today I think bigotry is a lost cause. I, I don't think there is a bigotry today that there was in the early days. You know, they, I don't think there is a trouble in marriages today, mixed marriages today that there was in the early days, I don't think there is  Now there has been a steady improvement in that way of thinking and today I think bigotry is a lost cause. I, I don't think there is a bigotry today that there was in the early days. You know, they, I don't think there is a trouble in marriages today, mixed marriages today that there was in the early days, I don't think there is 
25:46
The. The.
25:48
The misunderstandings. The misunderstandings.
25:50
today that there were in the earlier days in that connection, and indeed the churches have come together and they have as. today that there were in the earlier days in that connection, and indeed the churches have come together and they have as.
26:01
As a body, they have set a very, very fine example to to their parishioners in order that I think. As a body, they have set a very, very fine example to to their parishioners in order that I think.
26:12
Bigotry today in the main is non existent. Bigotry today in the main is non existent.
26:16
[Prue] What about in sport? Did it ever rear its head in sport, this bigotry? [Prue] What about in sport? Did it ever rear its head in sport, this bigotry?
26:23
[Cleaver] Well, it's certainly apparent. [Cleaver] Well, it's certainly apparent.
26:26
In the football world from 1924 until 1928. In the football world from 1924 until 1928.
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At that particular time. At that particular time.
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We had the Albury Football Club and we had St Pats football club. We had the Albury Football Club and we had St Pats football club.
26:43
The support was absolutely phenomenal. The support was absolutely phenomenal.
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The spectator support was phenomenal. The spectator support was phenomenal.
26:52
Crowds were Crowds were
26:55
infinitely greater by father than they are today. infinitely greater by father than they are today.
27:01
The reason being The reason being
27:06
that depending on your religious beliefs. that depending on your religious beliefs.
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You'd either barrack for Albury or for North Albury - I'm sorry, you'd either barrack for Albury or for Saint Patrick's. You'd either barrack for Albury or for North Albury - I'm sorry, you'd either barrack for Albury or for Saint Patrick's.
27:20
And there was a shocking state of affairs existing between people at that particular time. And there was a shocking state of affairs existing between people at that particular time.
27:30
I had an experience on one occasion walking through the street, Dean Street, on the way to the pictures after the match. I had an experience on one occasion walking through the street, Dean Street, on the way to the pictures after the match.
27:39
The lass came out from the Albion Hotel doorway, The lass came out from the Albion Hotel doorway,
27:45
bash me on the back of the head with an umbrella. bash me on the back of the head with an umbrella.
27:48
And said take that for playing today. And said take that for playing today.
27:53
This lass supported of the opposite team to the one that I played with, and that sort of thing was typical of what was happening. This lass supported of the opposite team to the one that I played with, and that sort of thing was typical of what was happening.
28:04
People who did not know a football from a cricket ball ,could find their way to the to the playing arenas. People who did not know a football from a cricket ball ,could find their way to the to the playing arenas.
28:13
To barrack for either St Pats or for Albury depending on what their religion was. To barrack for either St Pats or for Albury depending on what their religion was.
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[Prue] Did this change? [Cleaver] It's it's changed well. [Prue] Did this change? [Cleaver] It's it's changed well.
28:27
As far as that particular competition between those two teams were concerned, it was changed as a result of then As far as that particular competition between those two teams were concerned, it was changed as a result of then
28:35
breaking up of the two clubs in 19- after the 1928 season. [Prue] How did that come about? [Cleaver]It came about as a result of a a conference between Father Slattery, who was then the president of Saint Patrick's Football Club, and myself. We both agreed that the state of affairs which existed was intolerable, that there was no sporting atmosphere about it. breaking up of the two clubs in 19- after the 1928 season. [Prue] How did that come about? [Cleaver]It came about as a result of a a conference between Father Slattery, who was then the president of Saint Patrick's Football Club, and myself. We both agreed that the state of affairs which existed was intolerable, that there was no sporting atmosphere about it.
29:01
It was a, It was a,
29:04
very, very bad for society and we were successful in disbanding the two clubs, Albury and St Pats. 1929 very, very bad for society and we were successful in disbanding the two clubs, Albury and St Pats. 1929
29:17
two new clubs were formed, West Albury and East Albury. Olive St. was a line of demarcation. two new clubs were formed, West Albury and East Albury. Olive St. was a line of demarcation.
29:25
The players living east of Olive St. had to play with East Albury. The players living West of Olive St. had to play with West Albury. The players living east of Olive St. had to play with East Albury. The players living West of Olive St. had to play with West Albury.
29:35
Despite the fact that they had played with St. Pats and Albury the previous year. Despite the fact that they had played with St. Pats and Albury the previous year.
29:44
It's interesting to note that in the last home and home game, when Albury and Saint Patrick played on the old Albury Showgrounds, it teamed rain from 7:00 in the morning until late in the afternoon. That ground had two grandstands, one very commodious stand. It's interesting to note that in the last home and home game, when Albury and Saint Patrick played on the old Albury Showgrounds, it teamed rain from 7:00 in the morning until late in the afternoon. That ground had two grandstands, one very commodious stand.
30:06
And there was a big crowd of people present. A big crowd of people present despite the inclemency of the weather. And there was a big crowd of people present. A big crowd of people present despite the inclemency of the weather.
30:14
When? When?
30:17
East Albury met West Albury in the first game in 1929 on a beautiful day. East Albury met West Albury in the first game in 1929 on a beautiful day.
30:25
With 34 players of the 36 who took part in the previous year, playing, the gate was 19 pounds. I remember so very, very. With 34 players of the 36 who took part in the previous year, playing, the gate was 19 pounds. I remember so very, very.